Was Admiral Husband Kimmel unfairly made the face of America’s failure at Pearl Harbor?
Manning Kimmel joins Mike Gallagher and Mark Davis to explain his family’s decades-long fight to restore his grandfather’s rank and clear his name.
Listen now to M&M Extra with Mike Gallagher and Mark Davis.
This edition of M&M Extra is devoted almost entirely to one story: the legacy of Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, commander in chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941.
Joining Mike Gallagher and Mark Davis is Kimmel’s grandson, Manning Kimmel, who says his family has spent generations trying
00:00:32 Introduction to M&M Extra and the Preborn mission
00:01:54 Manning Kimmel and the quest to clear Admiral Kimmel’s name
00:05:35 The Pearl Harbor dereliction charge and its fallout
00:08:45 How the scandal affected Admiral Kimmel’s life
00:16:36 Kimmel, Pearl Harbor, and the missing court-martial
00:18:57 Bipartisan efforts and the stalled correction
00:24:33 FDR rumors and the case for posthumous correction
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Welcome to a meeting of the minds crafted from decades of talk show experience, an extension of the magic they’ve created together on radio in the phenomenon called M and M hot topics in the news and wisdom from life. It’s Mark Davis and Mike Gallagher. This is M and M extra.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes, it is for this Friday, the second day of October. But this is one of those episodes where it’s not just M, Mark Davis, and M, Mike Gallagher, but along with somebody very, very special. And everything we do is with the very special people at Preborn. You can stand for life today by joining us, providing ultrasounds to girls and women. You will double the likelihood that she will choose life. Call 833-850-BABY, 833-850-BABY, or go to preborn.com slash MMExtra. I’ve looked forward to this ever since Mike put a book in the mail to me called A Matter of Honor, Pearl Harbor, Betrayal, Blame, and a Family’s Quest for Justice by Anthony Summers and Robin Swan. The authors, I’m sure, are lovely people, but Mike gets to introduce me and thus you and everybody right into the family of a quest for justice for someone who has done reputationally such a deep, deep wrong. essentially blamed for Pearl Harbor. Mike, let me just hand you the baton. I cannot wait to proceed and to meet this gentleman and to do a deep dive into an ongoing class.
SPEAKER 10 :
This is actually M and M and M extra because M stands for Manning, Manning Kimmel. Now let me tell you a little bit about Mr. Kimmel. First of all, historians recognize the name Kimmel. Admiral Kimmel involved in the Japanese onslaught at Pearl Harbor. He was the commander-in-chief of the Pacific Fleet. His grandson is our special guest today. Manning Kimmel runs WRHI in Rock Hill, South Carolina. Now, let me tell you a little bit about WRHI. This, you and I, Mark, are a couple of old-time, we’re a couple of old radio guys. This is how radio used to be. It’s the coolest thing to walk into that station. And the building is chock full of all the awards they have won over the years. This is truly the voice of a community. I’m talking high school football on Friday night, and they don’t just stick one guy out there on a lonely football field. Team coverage. Team coverage like you can’t believe. Awards for their news. Awards for their local community programming. Manning Kimmel, the owner of the station, is right involved in the lineup and has, in fact, a legendary long-running show on WRHI as well. Now, we’ve been blessed to be on their lineup for years, so I know this station well. But I also know Manning Kimmel’s quest. For 50 years, he has attempted to clear the good name of his grandfather, Admiral Kimmel. So we are just overjoyed to welcome Manning Kimmel to M&M Extra. I’m also incidentally going to play some excerpts of our conversation on the Mike Gallagher show, Coast to Coast, tomorrow as well. including WRHI. Manning, what an honor it is to see you, to have you visit with us, because I know you’ve been fighting for 50 years. And look, there still could be light at the end of the tunnel to clear your grandfather’s good name. Welcome to M&M Extra, M. Another part of the M&M package, right?
SPEAKER 09 :
So it’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you both for your interest in this topic. And just to correct one thing, you know, this is the 85th anniversary of Pearl Harbor, 85 years. My father and his brother fought this thing until the day they died. And myself and my cousin picked it up. And we ran with it for the last, whatever, 20 years. And my cousin has passed away. So I’m the last one continuing to move this baton forward. And it’s just a political issue. That’s all it is, is politics. We are the modern day David versus Goliath. Goliath being the Defense Department. They don’t want to have anything to do with this. And it’s just crazy. It’s only a matter of honor. We’re not asking for any money. We’re not asking for a parade down Pennsylvania Avenue. We’re not asking for a battleship to be named after us, although I would like that. But that’s not going to happen.
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SPEAKER 09 :
What is the issue here? The issue is that Kimmel and Short, General Short was the Army Pearl Harbor commander. They were both tagged with being, quote, derelict in their duty. And as my father said to me many, many years ago, to a military man, honor is above life itself. And when they stuck that dereliction of duty on them, it just ruined them, absolutely ruined them. Well, all of that was later discredited by the Pearl Harbor Board, the Army Pearl Harbor Board, and the Naval Board of Inquiry back in 1944. There were 10 investigations prior to that, including that. And most of those were modern day star chamber proceedings. They weren’t allowed to cross-examine witnesses. Some hearings they weren’t even allowed to attend to hear what everybody was saying about them. Finally, the Naval Board of Inquiry was held in 1944. And guess what? That was the best of the best in the military. And they found that there was no basis for the allegation of derelict, for them being derelict in their duty. So the report was issued. And keep in mind, we’re fighting a war. And what happened to that report? It was very conveniently slid underneath somebody’s blotter on their desk, and it never saw the light of day. And so the scapegoating continued, and it continued, and it continued. Part of this I understand, because we had a war that we were fighting against the Japanese and the Germans, and we needed to win that war. What I don’t understand is after the war was over, why didn’t they treat my grandfather and General Short the exact same way they did for every other flag and general officer? In 1947, a long time ago, before I was even born, they passed a piece of legislation called the Officer Personnel Act. This was an attempt by Congress to thank all of their flag and general officers for what they had done during World War II. And they promoted them to their highest wartime rank. Because back in those days, the rank went with the job. My grandfather was a four-star admiral. General Short was a three-star general. And what did they do? They passed on hundreds of names to Congress for this honor. Two names were missing. Guess what those were?
SPEAKER 07 :
Kimmel and Short. Where did this charge arise? Where did this problem begin? What did they say your grandfather did or more notably did not do? What was behind this baseless charge of dereliction of duty?
SPEAKER 09 :
The president decided, I’m going to find out what happened out there. So he sent out an associate justice by the name of Owen Roberts, Supreme Court Justice. And he went out there. And what do you think he saw? Blood, dead bodies all over the place, battleships ruined. And so he was aghast. He had no idea what had happened. Nobody did at that time. So he said, these officers were derelict in their duty. And that stuck. That’s exactly what the media needed. And it stuck. And it stuck all these years. And we, the Kimmel family, are trying to erase that stain simply by a posthumous promotion in rank from two stars, rear admiral, to four stars, a piece of paper. That’s all it is, a piece of paper.
SPEAKER 10 :
What did this do to your grandfather? And I know I read the book, and I’ve got to tell you about A Matter of Honor quickly. It is riveting. It’s a thriller. It’s a page-turner. It’s history. It’s everything coming to life. And it’s a way that the book really does unravel the way the scapegoating of the admiral exposes the scapegoating. But what did it do to him as a person? I get what it must have meant to him as a brave, honorable military man. But on a human level, Manning, what did it do to Admiral Kimmel?
SPEAKER 09 :
Basically, he became almost reckless. because here’s what the government wouldn’t leave him alone my grandfather was a trained engineer and after world war ii we had a lot of us installations that needed to be rebuilt so my grandfather went to work for an engineering company he knew the owner of the company And he was assigned a particular project. We want you to work on this project. Well, as you do with any government-funded project, you have to submit reports. And those reports had his signature on it. And when the Defense Department saw the name of Husband Kimmel, on there they called his boss and said we’re pulling that contract we’re pulling that contract and the guy the owner of the company said well you can do what you want to do and my grandfather stepped in and said no i’m not going to let you be hurt by what’s going on with me so he pulled back he retired and basically he was able to put food on the table by very cleverly investing you know here and there and what happened and he was able to live Fairly comfortably. But he was, you know, every 7th of December, there was a knock on the door. A knock on the door. Admiral Kimmel, what’s going on? Anything new. And he, you know, he worked on this thing until the day he died. My father, every time he went up to see my grandfather in Groton, Connecticut, We would say the basic hello, how you doing, Grandpa, get a hug. And within 15 minutes, he and my father were walking down the hall to my grandfather’s study, and they sat back there for hours talking about Pearl Harbor. Well, guess what? Many years later, when I went up to see my father in Delaware, I would walk down the hall and be in his office, and we’d be talking pro-art.
SPEAKER 07 :
Manning Kimmel is here with the story of his grandfather and his family and kind of a personal quest they are on. And we’re so grateful to everybody that helps us bring stories like this and the usual roundtable of things that Mike and I are able to do. And among the people that we are grateful to are the folks at Relief Factor. Our friends at Relief Factor enable us to get people out of pain. It’s happened to Mike. It’s happened to me. It can happen to you. It’s incredibly easy, and we have the starter set ready to go for you. $17.76, $17.76. It’s an easy-to-remember figure and an easy-to-remember phone number, too. 1-800-4-RELIEF. 1-800-4-RELIEF. You’ll connect with our friendly local team. Go to relieffactor.com. They’ll do everything they can, whether it’s a shoulder issue like I had or a back issue like Mike had. And again, the keyword there is hat. It’s past tense because with the organic, natural ingredients in relief, you’ll find yourself out of pain. That’s a three-week plan, just $1776. And if it works, just continue as I’ve continued, and you’ll be really, really, really glad you did. That’s relieffactor.com.
SPEAKER 10 :
We’re also very proud of the podcast audience and collectively donating an ultrasound machine to our title sponsor, Preborn. Preborn gives free ultrasounds to women. When a young woman sees her baby and hears her baby’s heartbeat on an ultrasound, it doubles the chance that she’ll choose life. And we’ve invited you to support Preborn with $140. We’ll help give five mothers a free ultrasound and save babies. $28 a month will help save a baby a month for less than $1 a day. And a $15,000 gift will provide an ultrasound machine that will save lives for many years to come. Well, we thought we came up with an idea. How about the M&M Extra podcast sponsoring an entire ultrasound machine? And sure enough, this audience donated $15,000. Now there’s an M&M Extra podcast. ultrasound, if you will. So thank you. Thank you for your support. And let’s keep it going. You can go to preborn.com slash MMExtra, preborn.com slash MMExtra, or call 833-850-BABY, 833-850-BABY. That’s 833-850-2229 for preborn. It’s a beautiful, beautiful organization. Our late colleague, Charlie Kirk, here at Salem, was very, very involved with preborn. And we’re proud to kind of carry that torch. Preborn, preborn.com slash MMExtra. You know, Mark, it just dawned on me, this is one guest that we would have who completely understands the beauty and the power and the support of sponsors. Manning Kimmel, look, WRHI is one of the most successful.
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SPEAKER 10 :
I know your station there in Dallas is a fine station, but I can’t stop talking enough to everybody in the business about WRHI. We’re going to get back to Admiral Husband Kimmel and the book, A Matter of Honor. But Manning, if you don’t mind, can I just ask you if you’re even aware of how rare it is to have a radio station in 2026 that is as successful and is viable and is the vibrant part of the community, the WRHI is, you do know that around the country, radio stations like yours don’t really exist much anymore.
SPEAKER 09 :
I think we’ve been blessed with the fact that this station has been in business for 85 years. We’ve only had three owners. My partner, Alan, and I have owned it for 42 years out of that 85. And we still maintain the fact that we’re local. We don’t try to play in the sandbox of the larger city to the north. Our community is right here in your county. And we have, you talking about football games? We do 10 high school football games every Friday night. 10 high school football games. We start our broadcast at 6 o’clock in the evening. They end at 12 midnight. That’s how much we do post games, pre games. We do all this stuff. Football’s a big business. We carry all the college football games, USC, Clemson, the Panthers, NASCAR racing. If it involves a ball, if it involves a bat, if it involves a football, we’re in.
SPEAKER 10 :
They’ve got a wall of awards, Mark, that is just unbelievable. And it’s so fun. They’ve got a community guide that I’ve got. I stuck that in my briefcase when I was there the last time. Mark, it’s the way radio used to be. Fun.
SPEAKER 07 :
It is the way it used to be. It’s the way I believe it can be again for people who care enough to do it. It’s an amazing legacy. And I was so glad in getting this book to learn about the legacy of your grandfather. And I learned a lot about him. And in seeing some of the things that he had said, Manny, somebody asked him about Pearl Harbor. And he at one point just kind of talked about how problematic, maybe vulnerable. He talked about, I think he called it a mousetrap or something like that. Just giving honest assessments about Pearl Harbor. Do you feel like in essentially smearing him that they went back and found old quotes of things that, hey, he said that we’ll try to make that look bad. And that went into the effort that went into besmirching his good name.
SPEAKER 09 :
So my grandfather was pretty clever. He was not stupid. And he actually demanded a court-martial. He wanted a court-martial so all the facts could be put out on the line. Never happened. They wouldn’t give it to him. Why wouldn’t they give it to him? Because he had found out that the Washington High Command had broken the Japanese diplomatic code and knew exactly what was happening, but they never transmitted the information onto the commander’s. Keep in mind, this is 1941. No cell phones, no 24-hour news cycles, no satellites, nothing. The left hand depended on the right hand to tell him what was going on. He had every assurance in the world that we’ve got your six. We’re going to watch it. Don’t worry. If we see anything coming, we’re going to let you know. Well, they didn’t. They absolutely didn’t. So he never got his day in court. They just let the scapegoating continue. Well, my father and my uncle weren’t going to tolerate that. And they kept working on it, working on it, working on it. And finally, we had the 10th hearing in 1995 when the undersecretary of the Defense Department, Edmund Dorn, held a hearing. We had all this information. We actually were called down to Washington, D.C. We had a two hour meeting in the Senate Armed Services Committee meeting. It was like something out of Hollywood. We sat there, made our case. And Senator, a fellow by the name of Strom Thurmond, you all know Strom Thurmond, he said, you know, Mr. Secretary, talking to the Defense Department, he said, I think we ought to consider what’s going on here. And so that led up, we don’t have enough time to go through every step, but it led up to what was called the Dorn Report. And in that report, which came out from all these hearings that they had, they admitted in writing that the Washington High Command had the information and for some reason didn’t send it on to the commanders, right? And that Kimmel and Short never should have been held derelict in their duty. So we said, hooray, fix this thing. Just give us that one little piece of paper. No, no, no. It wasn’t good enough. So we kept pushing. We kept pushing. Then we have a piece of legislation that we got through in 2001. Mike, you saw the roll call vote here on my wall where all the senators voted to include this in the Defense Authorization Bill of 2001. And it asked the president to posthumously correct this injustice it had done to Kimball and Short. And nothing’s ever happened. Guess who was one of the key authors of this? A fellow by the name of Joe Biden. Joe Biden was the United States Senator from my home state at the time, Delaware. What did Biden do? Absolutely nothing. When I saw him when he was campaigning for vice president down here in South Carolina, I went up to and told him about all this. He said, I thought this had all been taken care of. I said, Joe, no, no, no, no, no. I handed him the same one little piece of paper that I gave to Mike Gallagher, saying, here’s where we are. And he did nothing with it. Nothing with it. And our attempts to get to him when he became president never came up to anything.
SPEAKER 10 :
But Manning, this strikes me as a story that is perfect for the 45th and 47th president of the United States of America. And I want to just share with Mark, I mean, I know you’re frustrated. Manning, and look, Mark and I are pretty connected. I mean, before I, and we can’t promise anything, but I do believe that we should commit to trying to get this piece of paper for the Kimmel family done because they deserve it. Manning, have you been, like, rejected by the Trump administration or turned down in any way, shape, or form, or you just haven’t gotten a response? I’ve been playing both sides of the political aisle.
SPEAKER 09 :
Democrats, Republicans, whoever’s in control. And guess what? I have not been able to reach into that White House. It’s tough to break that circle of whatever behind them. I can’t get through to any of these presidents. If anybody, if Mike and Mike can get through to the president of the United States and give them this little one piece of paper, I think things would begin to happen.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I don’t want to presume that I somehow know that this… But we’re all very familiar with Trump. He is very fond of between Trump. And I’ll tell you what, this also resonates with Pete Hegseff, who believes in truth telling, believes in war fighting, believes in that ethos. And so listen, with whatever meager talents we may have and whatever connections we may have, I think between this book and And between the stories, maybe a copy of this podcast episode would be a good thing to deliver. And listen, I’ve got a couple more questions that I want to deliver. One other thing really while we’re sitting here with Manning. And that is the incredible value of what we have had with our partnership, speaking of partnerships, with our friends at Food for the Poor. Because Mike and I have been to Guatemala. We have talked about all these amazing journeys that we’ve had and these opportunities to see the real people who who have been helped over 44 years, 4.7 billion meals, 96,000 homes. Mike and I have been on these slopes, these rocky slopes and mountainsides where we haven’t just brought food to people. We’ve also brought the gospel to people. Food for the poor is very faith-based. And they also bring the skill sets and the instructions and the learning. and the tutelage and the stewardship so that people can begin to fend for themselves. It has just been a life-changing thing, Mike, and I know you agree with me to be associated with food for the poor.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
my widow maker, so not going to kill me any minute now, but at least I know what to do. And one of the first things you do if you’ve got coronary artery disease is you’ve got to work on the weight. And I’m so grateful that Ph.D. weight loss has been in my life and been a part of my life for years. If I can lose over 50 pounds and keep it off, anybody can do it. You just got to make the call. You know, the real problem as you get older is that it’s not what you’re eating. It’s what your metabolism stopped doing. PHD weight loss restores it naturally. No shots, no starvation, no guessing. Best part of all for me with PHD weight loss is that I’m never hungry. I’ve never been hungry. Call and mention Mike and Mark today. You’re going to get two free weeks added to the program. We’ll even cover the cost of your food. That’s a $1,500 value. Make that call to PHD Weight Loss, 864-644-1900, 864-644-1900. Mention Mike and Mark. Again, call 864-644-1900 or visit myphdweightloss.com, myphdweightloss.com. Mark, this is fun to do these Friday theme shows. I want to remind our audience, we’re visiting with Manning Kimmel, who’s been a friend of mine, and I’ve been on the WRHI team for years. The book that everyone should read, and you get it on Amazon. Is there a book? An easy way to get a matter of honor, Manning, other than Amazon?
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s the easiest way to do it.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right here. Yep. Because we know a lot of people. You know a lot of people. You’re tight with congressmen and senators. I’ve interviewed Trump a bunch of times. You’ve interviewed Trump. Doesn’t there have to be a way that we should get this story into the Trump White House somehow?
SPEAKER 07 :
I would think there would. It’s not like they go looking for a cause celeb or anything like this. But I will tell you that every White House, every administration likes to do things that are, A, inherently good to do, and B, adds to their legacy of trying to right certain wrongs. And Manning, as I read the book and as I took a look at A Matter of Honor and the various quests that you guys have been on, you described sort of the mood of the 1940s. And you said a couple of times we had a war to win, which we did. And it kind of made it foggy. It took our eye off sort of the proper focal point that it should be of not smearing and disfavoring someone who deserved better.
SPEAKER 1 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
In assembling all this and reading the book and hearing what you’ve had to say about it, what is your family’s view of a pretty widely held belief based on kind of the fog of Pearl Harbor that FDR himself must have kind of known it was coming? I hear that bandied about. I can’t disprove it. But you are so close to this. Your family, your grandfather, so close to it. What would he have said about that? And what’s your family’s view of that?
SPEAKER 09 :
Family’s view of that has been pretty simple. We do not subscribe to the conspiracy theory that Roosevelt knew about this. In fact, this book, which is heavily researched, these are two Pulitzer Prize finalist authors. They researched this thing to death, and there’s been 150 books written about Pearl Harbor. This is the only one about my grandmother. And they dispute and they dispel that there’s any connection between Roosevelt and Pearl Harbor. Those around him, yes, we’ve been able to prove that. The Washington High Command, they knew what was going on. And what makes this thing even worse is the fact that we went the administrative route back in 2020 to the Board of Correctional Naval Records. We submitted all the information. And you know what? They approved our application for correction of rank. It went to the next step, which is the Secretary of the Navy. He approved it in 2021. He approved it. So we thought, boy, we got this thing going now. Next step and the final step is the Secretary of Defense. It sat there for two years. They did nothing with it except try to kill it. And that’s when I got James Clyburn involved, my Democratic friend who went to the Defense Department. He said, what are you doing here? So he made them send it back. But you know what happened? They sent it back with what I think was a little post-it note on there saying kill this thing. And the new secretary of the Navy at that time killed it. Killed it. Absolutely. It’s just so frustrating. You might think the bombs had fallen on Pearl Harbor yesterday, not 85 years ago.
SPEAKER 10 :
It’s just infuriating. But I’m going to tell you something, Manning, and you guys mean a lot to me, and Mark is just enamored with this story as well. We’re going to do everything we can. I mean, we know people. I’ve got friends in and near the White House, and all you want, like you said, is a change of rank. That’s it, posthumously. You’re not asking for a miracle here, and it should be done, and it could be done. And Mark, I think I can commit for both of us, we’re going to do everything we can to try to spread the word.
SPEAKER 07 :
100%. Because I know what everybody thinks is when there’s a reputation to be healed or some cause to be made right. People think, well, clearly they’re looking for a lottery ticket. Cha-ching, cha-ching. They’re looking for money. And that is simply not the case here at all. It literally is. I mean, as the book title says, it is a matter of honor. And the honorable thing to do would be to make this right. And it’s a pleasure to meet you, Manny. What a pleasure it is to meet you. And God
SPEAKER 10 :
Thank you, Manning, for joining us. You’re an honorable guy for fighting on behalf of your family and taking time out of your show today. You had a busy schedule, and we appreciate you visiting with us here at M&M Extra. And I can’t wait to see you the next time I’m able to come visit WRHI in Rock Hill, South Carolina. Can we make it a date? Bring him with you. Bring the other mic with you as well. Mark and Mike, we’ll both be there. You’ve got it. We’ll be there. We’ll do a remote. Thanks, Manning. Keep fighting the good fight. We appreciate you joining us here.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you both for all that you’re doing for radio. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER 10 :
With Manning Kimmel. A matter of honor. Get the book. Pearl Harbor, Betrayal, Blame, and a Family’s Quest for Justice. Thanks for joining us. We’ll see you next week. I’m off for a couple of days. You’re going to go solo for a couple of days.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I will try to read the running narrative on the YouTube thing for the live stream while you’re away. And we’ll look forward to your return. It’s just M, but it’s always M. Thanks for joining us, everyone.
SPEAKER 06 :
For full shows live and on demand, it’s Salem News Channel.
SPEAKER 02 :
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