Father Andre is joined by constitutional-law professor Dr. Julian Dunn-Raven for a discussion of the migration crisis involving Morocco and the Spanish enclaves of Ceuta and Melilla.
The conversation examines Spain’s legal treatment of migrants arriving by sea, Morocco’s ability to control its northern border, and the geopolitical pressure surrounding Western Sahara and relations with the European Union. Father Andre and Dr. Dunn-Raven also consider competing explanations for the surge in crossings, including economic migration, political leverage and religious motivations.
Against that backdrop, Father Andre raises a larger concern: could migration pressures, religious tensions and
00:07:00 Saint John Vianney and the prayer of Psalm 37
00:11:42 Opening analysis of the Spain and Morocco crisis
00:13:14 The Spanish court ruling and border interpretation
00:17:00 Why Morocco may have allowed the crossing
00:22:08 Religious tensions, Europe, and the long view
00:24:10 Humanitarian concerns and the Nigeria connection
00:28:59 Trump-named highway and political signaling
SPEAKER 01 :
Praise be the most holy name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Welcome to 33 minutes on the Lord’s day. A sacred time, a set apart moment, a return to what matters most. In a world that moves quickly, that speaks loudly, that often forgets God, this is your invitation to pause, to listen, and to enter into the presence of the Lord. For the next 33 minutes, we will walk together through the Word of God, encounter the reality of our daily lives, and respond to the call of Christ, who speaks not only to the world, but personally to you. this is not just a program this is a moment of grace a moment to remember who you are and whose you are so wherever you are driving working resting open your heart the lord is speaking welcome to our show
SPEAKER 02 :
This is a crazy situation right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Do you think it will take vigilantes to actually make a difference here inside of you? I’m the first vigilante here.
SPEAKER 02 :
They’re gonna fear me. Now they’re all coming down, being locked down to the mountains right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Here in Spain, they received over 60,000 migrants who came across from the Moroccan border into the country of Spain. This is mainland Spain right behind me. However, right now I’m heading over to Cueta, which is actually a town in Spain. However, it is on the African continent. There’s a few towns that are part of Spain that are on the African continent, and Cueta is one of them. literally over 60,000 migrants came across their border. A lot of people are wondering what actually happened. So therefore we’re heading there right now to see it for ourselves. These migrants quite literally came over by the truckloads into Spain and people are wondering if it’s a coordinated attack or if it was just the Moroccans that were coming over and seeking for a better life, or if it was an actual invasion. And just recently, in April, the Prime Minister of Spain came out the plan to give over 500,000 migrants legal status here inside of the country. Right now, we’re heading over to Cueta to see it for ourselves. We’ll be speaking with the migrants themselves, with the Spaniards, and we’ll even be going to the border to see what actually happened here inside this town.
SPEAKER 01 :
Praise be the most holy name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, now and forever and ever. Amen. My dearly beloved brothers and sisters, as we continue to see with subtitles the actual incidents and the events that are unfolding in Morocco, I want us to pray for the safety of Nick Shirley because I know him and his assistant, his producer, both of them were later on attacked with a knife and they had to run literally for their lives. A few minutes before we started recording our irrevocable was Father Andrei, to which I want to welcome you. I also want to welcome our friends from KLZ Radio who will be joining us for 33 minutes on the Lord’s Day as well onto the show. Remember that these incidents are gravely dangerous, are gravely significant at the same time for history, for geopolitics and for religions as well. For Europe, for Africa, for the relationships between the Muslims and the Christians and also for the relationship. between Spain, Morocco, U.S., U.S. policy. The president, President Donald J. Trump, whose name was actually evoked by the King Mohammed VI of Morocco a few days exactly before this actual invasion, popular people’s invasion. We’re not talking military invasion, but in fact, 60,000 people, predominantly, as you saw in the pictures, and you continue to see, most of them are in the mail. and males and and in the age of a military age almost and somehow and you heard some of the comments during when Nick was speaking and commenting that some of the migrants were talking some of the Moroccan people were talking about Islam at the same time. So with all of that, there is also something, a big responsibility to know through these facts, how to discern what’s happening and how will this affect the Vatican, the policies on migration, the theology of hospitality of Pope Leo, especially that he was in Spain. And while he was in Spain, the Spanish government, it’s not 500,000. I do believe that the records will show soon that the Spanish government has facilitated the visa. legalization status of immigration basically for about 2 million migrants coming from the African side. Of course, this episode, a revocal with Father Andre and 33 Minutes on the Lord’s Day will have a wonderful guest as usual. I always call upon him in sensitive times and times where the episode needs to investigate certain facts. We’re not launching no theory. We’re not launching no hypothesis. But we will be discussing in an investigative way what could possibly be the motives, the reality, the facts and the consequences. What would it lead to? So with us today on the show will be joining us our wonderful guest and friend of the Mission of Hope and Mercy on the show. Dr. Julian Dunn-Raven, who will be responding. He’s a lawyer, as you know, constitutional lawyer and professor of law at Arapaho University here in Denver, Colorado, and a friend of the Mission of Hope and Mercy and our community here in Lakewood, Colorado. Before I welcome him so we can listen to what he has to say and how we will lead this episode, I want to tell you that today the church is celebrating the feast day of Saint John Vianney. Saint John Vianney, one of the most amazing saints. He was born in 1786. He’s known as the patron saint for priests and he’s known in his famous statement where he says, the divine mercy of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And the sacrament of a priesthood, the sacrament of priesthood are born from the sacred heart of Jesus. This is a priest who was neglected by his diocese, by his bishop, was rejected, was put in the end of the world. As we say, Saviani became an internationally respected for his pastoral care, confessional wisdom, and for his children’s catechesis. and of course in his popular wisdom he was very humble a priest he was not considered to be the smartest yet he has become actually the symbol of the perfect priest of the priesthood in general this man and this wonderful priest is also known for his compassion and sympathy for his great sense of a pastoral care for the souls this is a priest who at some point in his life when he was being set up by parishioners unfortunately because many people did not like him in his time he was led to basically celebrate a funeral of a person who committed suicide so people run to him and they tell him don’t jump Vianney a man jumped from the bridge and so he died basically when he jumped from the bridge and then we need to bury him what do you think you should do so he buried him and then the same people write a petition to the bishop accusing the priest with disobedience because he buried a person who committed suicide and suicide is a mortal sin is an excommunication people who basically reject the life from god are not able to be buried in a church they will not receive christian burial so the bishop sends after saint john vianney and tell him you the priest who claims that you are the virtuous priest the simple priest The priest who knows all the rules and you want to apply the pastoral care, you disobey the church. He said, Your Excellency, how did I disobey the church? I’m paraphrasing the story to tell you that. The bottom line of the story, St. John Vianney tells the bishop, how did this man die? He said he jumped from a high bridge all the way down to the water. He said, well, how many seconds did he have from the time he jumped all the way to the time he reached the water? He said, few seconds at least, many seconds, because it was a tall bridge. He said… and how would you know that he did not repent during that time that space between him fallen from the bridge before he reached the water how do you know he did not repent and this basically shows the depth of the beauty i could see dr dan raven is smiling but with this story with the uh the beauty of the divine intelligence that is given to priests who cares for life let us pray and then let us go on with our episode irrevocable with father andre addressing the situation migration crisis awakening the beast from the past the war of religions potentially weaponized border assaults or complex geopolitical relations between um africa and europe namely in the form of spain and morocco with this let us pray my brothers and sisters we pray with psalm 37 in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit amen oh god come to my assistance oh lord make haste to help me Glory be to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and will be forever. Amen. In the Gospel of Matthew 5, verse 5, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ tells us in the Beatitudes, Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. In Psalm 37 we pray, Surrender to God, and He will do everything for you. Do not fret because of the wicked. Do not envy those who do evil, for they wither like a grass quickly and fade like the green of the fields. If you trust in the Lord and do good, then you will live in a land and be secure. If you find your delight in the Lord, He will grant your heart’s desire. Commit your life to the Lord. Trust in Him, and He will act. so that your justice breaks forth like the light, your cause like the noonday sun. Be still before the Lord and wait in patience. Do not fret at the man who prospers, a man who makes evil plots, to bring down the needy and the poor. Calm your anger and forget your rage. Do not fret. It only leads to evil. For those who do evil shall perish, the patient shall inherit the land. A little longer and the wicked shall have gone. Look at his place, he is not there, but the humble shall own the land and enjoy the fullness of peace. Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and shall be forever. Amen. Good evening, my brothers and sisters. As I was saying in the beginning of our episode, the little introduction as a commentary, there are some facts that we have to lay out before of our eyes. These facts materially strengthen the investigative responses that we would hope that we will receive from Dr. Julian. But first, let us greet him. Good evening, Dr. Julian. How are you doing?
SPEAKER 02 :
Good evening, Father. I am glad to be here and thankful that you brought me on.
SPEAKER 01 :
You know, the psalm that we just prayed with Psalm 37, it actually was meant for me personally first. I do not know if you were able to pay attention to this content. I’m trying to calm my anger. I’m trying to calm my fears because I am afraid. I am afraid for Christianity. And my fear, I do believe, could be substantiated because of many factors. But also I’m afraid that in the context of what we see happening in Spain and in Morocco, there are multiple dimensions for this crisis that we see unfolding before our eyes and i’m afraid that the final end of these dimensions might awaken the beast of religion from the past and might end up hurting the safety the security the peace process in europe and changing demographics in europe and it is gonna come at the expense of Christians basically in the end whether or not this was meant to be a religious some sort of a religious manifestation from the Muslim side against Christians I know none of this could be substantiated but the fact is Moroccans are Muslims predominantly and Spanish are Christian Catholics predominantly so religion is at play in this but also there are other geopolitical situations Some of the things before we go deeper, I would love to hear your opening comments. And then we go on about the question in this episode.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, your introduction about St. John Vianney was interesting to me because I think humility may be part of the problem in this particular case. and that is the humility of the Spanish Supreme Court. The Spanish system is very different than our system. They are a civil law system. They are not a common law system. They don’t use judicial interpretations generally. They’re much more, or they try to be much more humble in their interpretations. In this particular case, and I’m glad you included the map from Nick Shirley’s broadcast, because I think most people, when they picture Spain, they think of the Iberian Peninsula. Almost no one knows that there are two cities just across the Straits of Gibraltar that actually sit on mainland Africa, surrounded by the country of Morocco. And that’s what we’re talking about right now, particularly Ceuta. That case, there have been enough migrants that the Spanish parliament passed a law saying that they can suspend ordinary due process. if people try to cross barricades and obstructions without permission? Well, an Algerian man sued the Spanish government and said, no, you can’t stop me. You can’t take away my due process with automatic deportations because I didn’t actually cross any border or obstructions. I swam. I swam the distance. There were no obstructions, and thus I am entitled to due process. The Spanish Supreme Court took that case and actually agreed with the reasoning. And if you give them a charitable reading, perhaps they were trying to be humble and not go beyond what the statute said, because the statute talked about obstructions and impediments to crossings. They didn’t think it was talking about the ocean or mountains. And yet, if you’re being less charitable and think that this might be a case of activist judging, then yes, the court managed to articulate a standard that ignores natural boundaries like mountains and waters in favor of constructed obstructions.
SPEAKER 01 :
Dr. Daraven, sorry to interrupt you, but you know, crossing via water as a law was only done a few days before the actual crossing of those people. I do not know if you are aware of that. Before two days, literally at the end of July, now at the end of July, this law from the Supreme Court of Spain was issued actually. Prior to the end of July, prior to two days before the attack, crossing via water or air or land was illegal.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, and that’s how they were interpreting it. The Spanish Supreme Court overruled that, sort of to the panic of the government, and the government almost immediately tried putting out boundaries in the water to indicate this and to cover this area without getting an entirely new act of parliament. Nonetheless, as you can imagine, news about this ruling and sort of misinterpretations about it swept through some of Africa. All of them heard, oh, look, Spain says that if you swim, you can get in. And it created a terrible misincentive or malincentive, I suppose, for migrants to come enter the European Union without being automatically deported if they could just swim around the border into the city of Ceuta. And so you have the current crisis. That’s at least the legal background that gives the origin of it. That’s one.
SPEAKER 01 :
Go ahead.
SPEAKER 02 :
Go ahead. A little different.
SPEAKER 01 :
Morocco itself is not a stateless territory. It’s not a failed state. And all of a sudden, 60,000 people escape from their country. It’s a suffering monarchy, as you mentioned, with a functioning government, courts, as you mentioned, prisons, armed forces, major infrastructure projects, and an extensive border security apparatus. Plus, Morocco itself says it maintains approximately 24,000 security personnel along its northern coast. and prevented more than 150 000 attempted crossing during the previous two years that makes the central question unavoidable how could tens of thousands across into sata almost simultaneously if the moroccan state ordinarily possesses this capacity to prevent such movements that i want us to see in a2 one of the posts in the early invasion the way it happened and i would love to hear your answer in this regard
SPEAKER 02 :
I think it’s a complicated answer, because I think the initial trigger was, as I said, the Spanish Supreme Court’s ruling, I believe that was June 29. As that circulated in, the migrant population, fueled particularly by certain elements in the Moroccan state, the Palisarios, for instance, um… They pushed this narrative that you can now enter Spain, enter the European Union, the gates are wide open, and there’s not going to be anyone to send you back.
SPEAKER 01 :
That’s fine, but Professor, it pushes it for 60,000 people?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, but here’s the other element there. And nobody is accusing Morocco of this just yet, but they didn’t… They didn’t actively encourage this, let’s say, but they did look the other way because they demonstrated within a mere two days that they had the capacity to shut this migration down, that they had the capacity to secure the border. As you say, they are a very modern state. They’re very Western oriented, but they looked the other way and they let it happen. So why did they do that for these first two days? And to get that, you have to understand that Morocco has been in territorial dispute over Western Sahara, the territory of land directly south of Morocco, since 1975 when Spain withdrew from it. The United Nations recognizes Western Sahara as a non-self-governing independent territory, even though Morocco governs about 80% of it. Mauritania, the neighboring state, has withdrawn its claims, leaving the rest of the 20% of Western Sahara to be governed by the Palisario National Movement. And Morocco is in big dispute with them. There is a big territorial dispute, religious dispute, and sovereignty dispute that is infuriating Morocco. It’s why they left the African Union, because the African Union recognized the Palisario government. And Morocco is demanding from the European Union funding for continued border protection. But I think it’s also wanting to remind them, look, not only do you need to fund us if you want to secure your southern border here, especially in Spain, but we want recognition here because we’re doing you a great deal of service. And if we decline to provide that service, you’re screwed. And although it only looked away for a few days, I think that is the message that the king of Morocco is trying to send to the European Union.
SPEAKER 01 :
I do understand your interpretation. And of course, it has huge geopolitical consequences. And it’s a fact, as a matter of fact. But also, I want us to look with Damon, our producer, to one of the posts, A2, to consider another option, another opinion, as a matter of fact, of Dr. Walid Faris, who says, if we click on the actual post that I quoted, it’s an organized urban invasion. You know, in Arabic, we speak about Ghazwa. Ghazwa, it’s an urban invasion, literally. It’s not a joke and not a reckless phobia. There is a network of jihado Islamists that has been organized in this Ghazwa, which means jihadi raids made by civil people, actually, not by army, not by military, via Seta and Malila. two Spanish cities enclaves in Morocco. Once the jihadi marches across by land or by swimming to the two cities, they are technically on European land. Unfortunately, the current Spanish government is and will grant hundreds of thousands of urban militant migrants legal documents to settle in Spain or continue throughout Europe. And they said in the videos that they’re going to continue to all over Europe, as a matter of fact. We’ll watch this video later. So the late Sheikh Yusuf al-Kardawi, the spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, often announced on Al Jazeera that Europe and the West will be taken first by the Jihad of Hijra, the Jihad of Immigration, Dr. Dan Raven, before the Jihad of the Sword, which is Jihad As-Saif. Your comments on this, Dr. Dan Raven.
SPEAKER 02 :
This is a background motivation and part of the threat, I think. But we have to distinguish between the Islamic mission itself and the government of Morocco. Because you are absolutely correct. Under the Ummah, the United People Under Islam… There is a doctrine that says where Islam occupies, that is forevermore Islamic territory. So the Reconquista under Ferdinand and Isabella that drove the Moors out of Spain, out of the Iberian Peninsula, and re-established the Christian country of Spain on the Iberian Peninsula. That has been a huge setback to the expansionist dreams of Islam for centuries now. But for the existence of Israel, which is the more immediate claim closer to Mecca and Medina that Islam would like to reoccupy, the next target, and that has always been the case if Israel were ever to dissolve and fall back into Muslim territory, would be Iberia. All of Iberia. And thus Spain and Portugal would come under Islamic rule again. There is a substantial movement under Islamic thought that would like to see that happen. Now, the Moroccan government is, as I said, a Western-oriented government. Their version of Islam answers to the king. It is much more tightly controlled and subject to tradition there. But I think that Morocco as a state still has its own objectives it would like to achieve. Absolutely. sort of subtly reminding Spain and the European Union, look, you have only me as king standing here preventing you from experiencing the full force of this barbarism. You might want to give me Western Sahara if you value my service here.
SPEAKER 01 :
Dr. Danraven, you know, in a matter of hours, tens of thousands across from Morocco into those Spanish autonomous cities of Ceuta, by land and sea, and later on to Melilla, public estimates rose rapidly. They were speaking about 12,000 per hour. The overwhelming center of the event was Ceuta, and while Melilla faced smaller attempts and related tension, most of those who entered later returned to Morocco. Morocco says that there is no independent validation if people really have returned to Morocco or not. and many people unfortunately died and the human toll must be verified again you know but i do believe you know it was very dangerous crossing but yet at the same time the gates were open literally the gates were open and we saw in later videos that how the gates are open it seems that there are also observers who are speaking that all was prepared legally namely for the for those two cities of citta and malilla and um it looked like you know it was prepared legally this is a post that uh that we see uh speaking about the decision and that’s something i found actually in ai in later june 2026 the supreme spanish court ruled that this special border rejection regime um rechazo in frontezza or hot returns only applies when migrants physically overcome a physical border containment structure such as a land fence and that’s what you spoke about then the sea exception the court clarified that this summary expulsion law cannot legally apply to individuals intercepted at sea or attempting to enter seta and malilla namely these two cities were mentioned by the court order by the way by swimming because the maritime zones lacks a physical barrier authorities must process these individuals through standard legal and asylum procedures instead of immediate pushbacks three the contacts and claims the aftermath the ruling triggered a sharp rise in migrant arrivals and a humanitarian emergency and i want to add to this a major religious clash and fear including you know Nick Shirley and many other Spanish people they were threatened by knives by people and people screaming Allahu Akbar as they were crossing the borders as well and of course so the local leaders and the interior ministry noting that smuggling networks quickly exploited the legal limitation now i want to take a little bit you and me to nigeria you know a priest was stabbed to death a few days ago 37 christians were killed today the president of nigeria sent almost like almost i would say he’s very unhappy because the cardinal in nigeria finally spoke that the government of nigeria is not doing what they need to do to protect the christians in nigeria which actually and somehow aggravated the president and he made it sound like what he said and i’m paraphrasing the cardinal is taking advantage of his diplomatic protection dr the raven these are not isolated events and my fear christians are in trouble and i’m afraid for the safety what do you think after what we’re seeing
SPEAKER 02 :
You’re not entirely wrong, especially in Nigeria. Nigeria is trying to present itself as a modernizing state. It’s not doing terribly well at that. It is having enormous difficulty with human rights. The issues that you just named continue to come up in that they experience religious clashes. They don’t like a whole lot of criticism. They don’t like it being noticed. And… To Morocco’s issue, many of the refugees from places like Nigeria and other less stable places in Africa do end up in Morocco because it is comparatively wealthy, modernized, and stable. And so Morocco tends to be a magnet for these immigrants and migrants, not just for its own sake, but also because of its proximity to Europe, so that for those people who are wanting to make the leap over, to try to get into Europe would first come to Morocco because it’s more stable on its own anyway. So Morocco has a seething pool of some of these dissatisfied people already coming to it. It already has issues in trying to deal with them and the particularly virulent and dangerous strains of Islam that infect those people. And it’s trying to use that, sort of its own problem, to leverage its position with the European Union and with Spain.
SPEAKER 01 :
I would like to share with you some, I would say, additional facts, precisely the highway. You know, also a few days right before the actual invasion, probably one day before the invasion, the King of Morocco named 1055-kilometer Zikneed Dala Expressway after the U.S. President Donald J. Trump. It’s an approximately one billion strategic road that links southern Morocco to Dahla through the Moroccan-controlled Western Sahara and towards Mauritania, which you mentioned as well earlier on the show. So the project had been under construction for years and was reportedly fully operational by January 2026, although the naming was publicized during the same week as the SETA crisis. But it has been in a year, actually. It was done at the beginning of the year. And then one day before the actual attack, the king of Morocco names the highway after Donald J. Trump. Is the president being set up?
SPEAKER 02 :
Possibly. I think most of the world has figured out that the president likes to be flattered. And they’re hoping he doesn’t notice everything else that goes on with it.
SPEAKER 01 :
So, you know, for our friends with KLZ, we are coming to the break in the midst of our show. 33 minutes on the Lord’s Day is always a time where you and me rejoice and enjoy the peace of the Lord. And even though we look at the events happening around us on Irrevocable with Father Andre, You can continue to stream the show and this vivid conversation in which we investigate the possibilities, the motives, and we check on possible consequences of what happens when 60,000 people, predominantly non-Christians, cross from a land to another land, from Africa to a European land, where two sovereign nations and somehow have set certain rules and regulations and laws and involves some geopolitical factors and the Vatican is applying a theology of hospitality and still believing and believes and that coexistence between Muslims and Christians is a way to go for the future of the world. Is everybody fair player? Is everybody acting in this context in accordance to conscience or… there is a risk of awakening a beast from the past, a beast that Europe suffered a lot, under which Europe suffered a lot in order to stop wars of religions. Is it possible that the post-modern world, that the post-church world, that the post-Christendom world is leading the way again for religious violence, for geopolitical complexities where regional wars and anthropological suffering, demographic replacements will take place. And where will God be from all of this? And where we as Christians be? And what is it our obligation to do in order to continue promoting the peace, the love, the redemption, and the truth of the gospel of life and salvation of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ? So thank you for supporting us, missionofhopeandmercy.org. And I want to ask our friends from KLZ Radio listeners, tune in to our X page for the Mission of Hope and Mercy, our YouTube channel to continue streaming. You just listened to 33 minutes on the Lord’s Day. Do not let this be the end of the encounter. Carry the Word you have received into your life. Let it shape your thoughts, your decisions, your relationships, and above all, let it draw you closer to Christ. But today, we also invite you into something more. If this time has blessed you, if the Word of God has spoken to your heart, consider becoming part of the mission that makes this possible. Through the mission of hope and mercy, we are reaching souls, supporting the suffering, and standing with persecuted Christians around the world, bringing light to where there is darkness and hope where it is needed most. You can be part of this mission. through your prayer through your sharing of this program and if you are able through your financial support to join us visit mission of hope and mercy.org mission of hope and mercy.org there you can learn more stay connected and make a direct impact in the lives of those in need your generosity no matter how small becomes a channel of god’s mercy in the world god bless you father andre
Father Andre begins a two-part historical examination of Iran, asking how warnings about religious authoritarianism, political manipulation and social…
