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In this insightful episode of Washington Watch, Tony Perkins delves into the critical issues defining the future of the Middle East from the heart of Jerusalem. Key discussions revolve around the concept of a two-state solution as proposed by international figures like Antonio Guterres, and the complexities posed by different parties towards peace in the region. Through interviews with significant Israeli leaders such as David Mincer and legal expert Professor Eugene Kantorovich, the episode scrutinizes the geopolitical and ideological shifts and evaluates their impacts on Israel’s policy and strategy.
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins starts now.
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The only path to lasting peace is one where two states, Israel and Palestine, live side by side in peace and security, in line with international law and relevant UN resolutions, with Jerusalem as the capital of both states.
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That was Antonio Guterres, Secretary General of the United Nations, earlier this week, as he missed what happened on October the 7th, 2023. Welcome to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for tuning in. We’re broadcasting from the studios of CBN in Jerusalem, where I’ve been meeting with Israeli leaders over this past week. In just a moment, we’ll be joined by my friend David Mincer, Israeli government spokesman. Well, in the mix of issues that will define the future of the Middle East is Judea and Samaria, the geographical and historical heartland of Israel. We’ll be joined by a member of Knesset to talk about the effort to declare Israeli sovereignty over what has been called the West Bank. Pastor Eugene, Professor rather, Eugene Kantorovich, will also join us to explore the legal aspects of what is being proposed by President Trump for Gaza and the deep state. It’s here in Israel, just as strong as it is in the United States. We’ll explore that later on this edition of Washington Watch. Well, yesterday, President Trump issued a last warning to Hamas, calling on the terrorist group to release all the hostages they are holding or, quote, it is over for you. President’s statement, which was posted on his Truth Social platform, came after he met in the Oval Office with eight freed hostages who shared their heartbreaking stories and stressed to him the urgency of returning the remaining captives from Gaza. Now, with President Trump’s clear commitment to helping Israel finish the job, Will Hamas realize it’s fighting a war it cannot win? With me now in studio to talk about this more is David Mincer, Israeli government spokesman for the National Public Diplomacy Directorate in the office of the Israeli prime minister. David, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us. Good to be with you, Tony, and thank you for joining us yourself. Well, it’s good to be here in Jerusalem. It’s almost like home away from home. Let’s talk about this. Yesterday, the president, before I get into the president’s comments, I want to go back, really to set the stage, because you heard that quote this week. from the Secretary General of the United Nations saying, the only way for peace in the Middle East is a two-state solution with a divided Jerusalem as the government of both, as a capital city for both nations.
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I mean, isn’t that what we tried, what was tried in Gaza? Well, to all of us here in Israel, Tony, the United Nations, which should be a force for good in the world, is actually the opposite. Everyone here in Israel knows that. And I think enlightened people around the world recognize that as well, because Antonio Guterres has never failed to miss the opportunity to call out the villains for who they are. And that is Hamas, the genocidal, murderous organization. Look, a Palestinian state which seeks to replace Israel, as almost every single Palestinian leader says openly, is simply no answer whatsoever.
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Now, I’m going to talk later about the… There’s a moving or a growing movement, I should say, here in Israel to declare sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. I know there’s a number of issues. Talked with the prime minister about that this week. But… When you look at Gaza, Judea and Samaria, which is in the center of the country as opposed to a small strip down in the southern part on the Mediterranean, is 24 times the size of Gaza. If Gaza didn’t work out with self-government from the Palestinians, how are Israelis expected to believe it will work if Judea and Samaria is turned over to the Palestinian Arab state?
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Absolutely, Tony. You know, in 2005, this was an experiment. We pulled all of our people, every single Jew out of Gaza. And the idea was, let’s see what the Gazans can do with it. Let’s see what the Palestinians can do with it. They turned it into a large organization. operating base of terrorism from which we have just suffered the worst day of Jew killing since the Holocaust and certainly in this country’s history. We’ve seen the mistake that was made. We understand that Palestinians given self-rule very often turn to terrorism. So that can be no resolution whatsoever in this part of the world. After October the 7th, we’re on our guard. We were taken by surprise on October the 7th. We will not be taken by surprise again.
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President Trump, after meeting with freed hostages, made very clear hostages need to be released from Gaza. They need to be home. And this is it. Time is out. We’re moving forward. Now, I want to go back a month ago before the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, met with the president, the president’s first head of state visit. In fact, we met the night before. I’m told that the president viewed prior to that meeting the video footage that came out of Israel based upon cell phone footage and security cameras. I watched that video myself. It is beyond words in terms of the brutality. I can only describe it as demonic, what took place on that day, October the 3rd. That appeared to have moved the president into a very bold position last month. It would appear to me that his meeting with the hostage to hear firsthand what happened to them has moved it maybe further.
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Look, our health ministry released yesterday that up to 40% of our hostages’ body weight has been taken off. They’ve lost 40% of their body mass. They’ve lived in starvation conditions. They’ve lost teeth. Their eyesight has been ruined. And we also know that psychological condition will obviously take a lot longer to heal. Tony, this is a death cult. It’s a death cult. The president recognizes that. There is no peace with a death cult. A death cult needs to be destroyed. Our culture teaches us to love life, to prolong life. Their culture teaches death. They yearn for death. That is why there is no cooperation, no coexistence with the Hamas terrorist organization. End of.
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And I said October the 3rd, but October the 7th. You mentioned mistakes were made. And I’ve met with a number of Israeli leaders over the last year and a half and discussed that. In part, you just talked about the ideology. There’s no peace with a death cult. Prior to October the 7th, there was a sense that it was an issue of economic prosperity and well-being that was the motivation for Gazans and Hamas. That clearly is not right. It is an ideology that is driving them, and you have to deal with the ideology. It sounds as if, based upon my conversation, that Israel’s come to that understanding.
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There’s no education-like experience, and we’ve lived it. There have been catastrophic mistakes made in this country. The idea that we can coexist with this terrorist organization right on our borders. You know, this is not a land far away. You’ve seen it for yourself. It’s right over our fence. It’s a matter of meters away from where our people live. It’s a death cult. It must be destroyed, which is why the key war aims of this war, of this government, of our prime minister, has been to destroy Hamas’s military and its governing capability, and to ensure that Hamas can never coexist again in Gaza. We won’t be threatened again by Gaza. You know, we were taken by surprise. There have been catastrophic errors made. This country is learning those errors the hard way, but living next to a death cult is simply not an answer. We will be victorious by destroying this organization.
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Let’s talk about that, David Minter, about the path forward, the stated goals of this war effort, bring the hostages home and to eliminate Hamas, not contain it, but eliminate it. There is at current a pause. We’re in a period, kind of an in-between period of phase one and phase two. Where do we stand on phase two of the ceasefire hostage negotiations?
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The Prime Minister has made clear that we’ve had no greater friend than President Trump in the White House. And his envoy, Mr. Witkoff, has made a proposition, and it’s very, very clear. And it says, release the hostages for the ceasefire to continue. It’s as simple as that. You let our people go. You know, we’re approaching Passover now. That phrase, let our people go, resonates with us as it does with you. You let our people go, you leave Gaza, you escape with your lives. That’s what the government is telling very, very clearly to Hamas. If you wish to stay, if you do not wish to release our hostages, Israel reserves the right to return to battle. And you can be sure that with the United States behind us, with our greatest ally in the world, shoulder to shoulder with us in a way that no one else has ever seen in the history of the relationship between our two great countries, you can be sure that we will be victorious.
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Along those lines, David, this week here in Israel, there was a change in the chief of staff of the IDF, new leadership coming in. And what I’m hearing on the ground here is it is kind of a sea change of orientation from a standpoint of a more aggressive approach.
SPEAKER 15 :
Tony, our new chief of staff yesterday, and I’m sure all of us wish him well, said these two words. He said, total victory. That’s what the prime minister has said, and that’s what our chief of staff is committed to. And I know, and I know, because I know this from firsthand, with the bravery of our soldiers, with the commitment of our people, with the determination and our faith in the good Lord above, we will be victorious. Hamas’s days are numbered. We will not live next to this death cult no more.
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I’ve also heard repeatedly, David, that we have to go for the, and this is the phrase used, the head of the snake. It’s clear that Iran continues to play in this region, not only as using Hamas as a proxy. We’re at Syria. There’s still concerns there. But even in Judea and Samaria, you know, I’m told that massive smuggling efforts of advanced weapons now coming into Judea and Samaria into Turkey. Iran still is on the list.
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You know, in a few days time, we here in Israel are celebrating the festival of Purim. Right. And that commemorates a victory over another Persian tyrant, Haman. Right. And his king, Ahasuerus. So we’ve seen down these Persian tyrants in the past. We know that Iran is trying to ignite the region. We know that they failed with all their promises. in Lebanon, with Hamas, with the Houthis, with the Shia in Iraq. They failed in every way, but they’re trying to ignite the Judea and Samaria. Our eyes are wide open, Tony. We know what they’re up to, and they will not succeed.
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We found out yesterday that the Trump administration has had some direct communications with Hamas, telling them to let the hostages go now. I think reinforcing the messages that President Trump has been sending. Have any Israeli officials had any further contact with Hamas?
SPEAKER 15 :
Our Prime Minister’s office yesterday made clear that we know these discussions are going ahead. We’re well aware. But from Israel’s point of view, there is nothing to discuss. We are discussing with our U.S. partners. That’s who we’re discussing the future of this region with. anything for their people. They don’t, of course, they hate their own people. They want to kill as many of them as they possibly can, but they would lay down their arms, release our hostages and move out of Gaza. If they don’t, Israel will be victorious.
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David, we just have 30 seconds left. What is the main thing evangelicals and American can be praying for, for Israel?
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Look, the famous phrase says that at the end of this war, we won’t remember what we said about us. We’ll remember the silence of our friends. Evangelicals have not been silent. They’ve kept their voices up high. They’re heard in the White House. They’re heard in the Oval Office. And we hear their prayers as well. And they have an effect. Keep doing it. Keep going forward. And together, we will be successful.
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David Minter, thank you so much. Folks, stick with us. We’re coming back with more Washington Watch right after this.
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During these challenging times for our nation, Family Research Council continues to serve as a watchman on the wall for faith, family, and freedom. And together, thanks to your support, we’re making an eternal impact. 2024 was a year of shining the light for biblical truth in Washington, D.C., Last fall, over 1,000 spiritually active, governance-engaged conservatives gathered for the Pray, Vote, Stand Summit to pray for our nation and ensure that the issues impacting sage cons were understood and advanced. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins marked a major milestone this year, its 900th episode, and added the Washington Watch News Desk, a new production that presents the top news each day from a biblical worldview. The Washington stand published 2,000 articles of news, commentary, and podcasts in 2024, garnering over 5 million views. FRC’s outlet for news and commentary continues to pursue the truth on the issues that matter most to you and your family. And with the launch of the Stand Firm app, you can listen to, watch, and read our content in one simple place. Pray for current issues, stay rooted in the scriptures, and engage the political sphere with the community of believers on our new platform. In 2024, FRC shaped public policy and culture, organizing the National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance, where members of Congress and Christian leaders came together to seek God’s intervention in America. In May, FRC called upon believers to pray for and stand with Israel by dedicating a portion of their worship services to pray for Israel’s peace, prosperity, and protection. with pray vote stand decision 2024 frc and real life network led a powerful evening of election night coverage to analyze the election results and pray that our nation would turn back to god we also filmed a transformative educational course god and government launching early this year in january 2025 this series will explore the biblical and historical foundations of our government, empowering you to stand confidently in your role as a citizen of heaven and earth. Family Research Council thanks you for partnering with us, and we look forward to 2025 and standing for faith, family, and freedom.
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Looking to grow closer to God in the new year? FRC’s Stand on the Word spiral-bound journal is here to help. Dive deeper into scripture with thought-provoking questions, note-taking space, and context for each book and author. This second edition, covering Isaiah 2 Revelation, will guide you in tracking your journey through God’s word while deepening your faith in Christ. Order now at frc.org slash store or text journal to 67742.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us as we broadcast from Jerusalem here at the CBN studios. And it’s been a great week here. And we once again appreciate CBN for hosting us here in their studios. Well, as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu leads his country in the efforts against the terrorist group Hamas, he’s also fighting another battle in the courts and has been doing so for more than five years. And what he’s facing is just the tip of the iceberg that many don’t know about. It’s called the deep state in Israel. And with me now in studio to discuss this and more, Israeli Knesset member, Amit Halivi. Amit, welcome to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. Great honor to be here with you, Tommy. Well, we had an opportunity to visit during our time here in Israel, and America’s not alone in a deep state trying to undermine really conservative, constitutional-based activity.
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Definitely. Actually, the first meaning in Israel, when you say two states, you know, we talked about two states. This is the state and the deep state in Israel, because it’s a huge problem in Israel. And it’s not about conservative. By the way, it’s about democracy. I mean, our democracy is under attack actually for decades. 30 years since the former chief, the former head of the Supreme Court, Aharon Barak, that’s his name, actually made this, as he called it, the Judiciary Revolution. And it was indeed a revolution because since then, And across the road over those 30 years, the real decision maker is not the people. I mean, it’s not our people. It’s all the Supreme Court, all the, you know, those officials and high-ranking officers. I can give you one example, maybe two examples, very, very strong and serious because it’s relevant to our security status in Israel. Take the fact that the IDF as actually the Attorney General, the IDF Attorney General, together with Israeli Attorney General, actually prevented from IDF to make those targeted elimination to those people that actually took part in the massacre. Yes, there were thousands of terrorists that actually get in our . So they had a veto over the IDF and the prime minister? Indeed. And we’re talking about those people that hidden up the Bibas family. Yes. And murder them. Yes. We know these people. We have the list. But the attorney general for some, you know, a very extreme interpretation of international law, which is incorrect, definitely incorrect. But that’s it’s her opinion. And she decides she’s not elected. And she is not elected. And the same thing, I can tell you, two years ago in the Knesset, we passed a legislation that actually said that every terrorist that made a terror attack will revoke his citizenship and he will be part of the Palestinian authorities. Yes. Since then, for more than two years, the officials do not transfer the information that is needed in order to apply, in order to implement this legislation. So the Minister of Interior, the Interior Minister, his name is Moshe Arbel, needs actually to do this, to revoke the citizenship, to take them out. from Israel, and he can’t do it because they need the information. It’s a very, very specific information. Who of those terrorists gets sponsorship from the Palestinian Authority? Everyone gets. But to take the list, you know, the table, the Excel file, and this Excel file exists. in the high-ranking officers in the army. And the high-ranking officers in the army, together with those legal advisors, they just don’t bring it to the minister. And that’s the way they prevent this legislation to be applied.
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very similar to what Donald Trump experienced in his first term. MK Halevi, let’s also talk about how American foreign aid, which has come through USAID, has actually been used here in Israel under the previous administration to join with leftist organizations to fuel that deep state.
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Well, you know, in Obama’s term, in Obama’s second term, I think, there was some family in the United States that asks the information, who actually got into the White House? You know, in order to get into the White House, you need to have formal approval. And they found out that Michael Sfarad, it’s one of the famous lawyers here of the extreme left-wing movements, he was the… highest, the Israeli that actually got in the major times into the White House. And this connection, this global connection between the recent government in the US and the extreme leftist here is not surprised anyone here i mean those are global movements as you know funny global movements that actually had a progressive goal and doing everything also undermining democratic regime like in israel in order to promote their progressive goals so we were not surprised we do we were do surprised from the you know amounts of money i mean we’re talking Generally speaking, billions of dollars that the USA actually was given to all over the world for the international goals. It’s actually the same neo-Marxist school of thoughts that they are not dealing, never dealt in the, you know, in the local area, also in the Soviet Union, in the Soviet regime. It was about international revolution. So that’s why this connection is part of the international revolution that tried to promote.
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M.K. Halevi, we just have about a minute left, but that’s fine. You know, some would say that’s fine in times of peace when there’s no threat, but this has proven to put Israel at risk.
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No doubt about it. I mean, Israel is the, after October 7th, that we are under, you know, it was not even a regular war. It was a massacre, Holocaust day. And in these times that there is such, the US government, the former US government actually was involved here in our local issues. Yes, I want to remind you that Chuck Schumer this statement that he thinks there should be elections in Israel. So that was the formal words. And behind the scenes, they not only said it in the media, they also made these activities. They put their money where their mouth was. Put their money exactly where their mouth was.
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Unfortunately, it was our money. It was taxpayers’ money that they used to unsettle and create instability in the Israeli government.
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Definitely. And I like there are, you know, formal words like they want stability and they want the security of Israel. In fact, the last government, Antony Blinken, I was witness, by the way, to the cruel pressure. And I think that if your audience would know what I’m talking about, he would shock. He would shock because he came here not one time and made cruel pressure on our vital interests. MK Halimi, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Tony.
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All right, folks, stick with us.
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We’re back with more after this.
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Oh, beautiful for spacious skies.
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For amber waves of grace. At the 2025 National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance, hundreds gathered with Christian and government leaders at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, DC to pray for the nation and ask God to forgive us of our sins.
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We gather here not to appeal to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. We are appealing to heaven. Today we make our appeal not in the authority of a political party or in the name of a denomination. We come in the name and the authority of Jesus Christ. who has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and we have been commissioned to operate in that authority.
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Father, we pray in Jesus’ name for our complacency, our greed, our pride, our gluttony, our sloth, and tolerance of sin.
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Lord, your word is the food that can make America healthy again. May your word be exalted and believed in our nation again. Lord, we ask that you allow us to become that shining city on the hill once more for your love, your grace, and your mercy.
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thank you for your love and your grace and your mercy for the opportunity that you have provided us to heal our land we ask you to do it lord we ask you for the wisdom discernment and stamina to do the thing that you have called each one of us all of us here to do may we be found faithful we trust it pray it believe it all in jesus name amen
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us as we broadcast from Jerusalem. We’re in the CBN studios here in Jerusalem. Our appreciation to them for hosting us. Well, during his joint press conference with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on February the 4th, President Trump said, quote, we will be making an announcement on that very specific topic in the next four weeks. Now, he was speaking about the issue of Judea and Samaria and sovereignty over that issue. Now, those that are here in Israel who are eagerly awaiting a statement from the new administration on the future of Judea and Samaria. Well, in the meantime, legislation has been introduced here in the Israeli Knesset to declare sovereignty over the biblical heartland of Israel. With me now to discuss this is Israeli Knesset member, Ohad Tal, who introduced that legislation. MK Tal, welcome to Washington Watcher. I should say, welcome back. Thanks for joining us.
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Thank you very much, Tony. It’s always a pleasure to be with you, and welcome to Jerusalem.
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It’s great to be here. We’ve had some very productive meetings this week and some visits throughout Judea and Samaria, which, you know, we cannot say this enough for our audience in the United States. Judea and Samaria is both the heartland geographically of Israel, but it’s also the heartland historically of the Jewish people and of the nation. And it’s always baffled me. Why is this even in question as to who has sovereignty over this area?
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That’s a wonderful question. But by the way, I want to use this important platform of yours to say to all our friends in America, to invite them, to invite them to come to Judea and Samaria, to come to Israel, but especially to come to Judea and Samaria and see for your own eyes what is this place, to feel, to smell, to get the sense of what is even happening. Because You know, I believe many people, they hear about Judea and Samaria only through media. And in the media, they present it in a very, very specific way. And I think it’s important for people to come to feel and to see with their own eyes what is actually happening in the land. And yes, Judea and Samaria, that is, as you’ve said, the biblical heartland of Israel. This is where all the stories of the Bible, this is where they took place. This is where the patriarchs and matriarchs have walked and are buried. This is where all the stories of the Bible happened. And the time has come to acknowledge that and to really to apply full Israeli sovereignty in Judea and Samaria.
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And of course, when those on the ideological left talk about Judea and Samaria, they say West Bank, which incorporates all the way, I mean, some of the most historic and significant sites. Like this week, I was at Joshua’s altar, the first place where the children of Israel, when they came in, really became a nation as they set up the altar and recounted the cursing and the blessing from Deuteronomy. That’s one of the spots, Shiloh, where the tabernacle stood for 369 years. And even the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, that is considered the West Bank. How can that be?
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you’re right this is part of the of the lie who tried to to take away uh the jewish narrative and to to sell another false narrative uh you know it’s called the west bank simply because the jordanians took over that area uh uh after the 1948 the independence war of israel they took over uh of that of those places and they call it the west bank of the jordan valley but You know, that story actually gives us the whole issue because, you know, for 19 years, since 1948 until 1967, for 19 years, the Arabs had this whole area for themselves. Jews were allowed to get into the West Bank, into Judea and Samaria. Why didn’t they establish a Palestinian state in those areas if this is really what they want? But that only reveals the lie, the false of these claims, because they don’t really want to have a state of their own in Judea and Samaria or in the West Bank, as they call it. They only want to use the two-state solution as their way forward of destroying the Jewish state. This is what they want, and this lie just exposed that. And we have to stop lying to ourselves, stop fooling ourselves and realizing the truth. And the truth is that Judea and Samaria should be part of the modern state of Israel.
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Two years ago, there would be those that would say that’s just hyperbole. You’re just inciting division. But in the wake of October the 7th and what happened in Gaza, a piece of land that represents, I mean, Judea and Samaria is 24 times larger than Gaza. You can see just from that experiment that this two-state solution is not a solution at all.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re right. You’re right. Because in 2005, we actually withdrew from the Gaza Strip. We expelled 8,000 of our people out of Gaza. We took even people out of their graves. And we gave it all to the Palestinians. We effectively gave them a state of their own. And that experiment has miserably failed. On October 7th, we all discovered that dividing God’s land, giving pieces of that to the Arabs does not help promote peace or bring stability and prosperity to the region. It only does the opposite of that. And the time has come, again, to realize this truth and to change the course of history.
SPEAKER 04 :
MK Tao, we just have about 40 seconds left, but as you’ve introduced this legislation, I’ve seen there is a change in the mindset here in Israel that now is the time to declare that sovereignty over this historically, biblically destined land.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re right. You know, we are very hopeful and we are praying God. We are certain, again, that with what is happening here in Israel and with the leadership of President Trump, we will see a change in the right direction. And the people of Israel will recognize our sovereignty. And I hope the nations will also recognize the Jewish sovereignty in Judea and Samaria. That is the right way forward. It will only bring more peace, stability and prosperity to everybody.
SPEAKER 03 :
Go ahead, Tal. Thanks for being with us, folks. Stick with us. We’re back with more from Israel after this.
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Hello, I’m Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council here in Washington, D.C. Behind me is one of the most recognizable buildings in all the world, the U.S. Capitol. What does it stand for? Well, most people say government. But do you know the Bible talks about four institutions of government? Do you know what they are? And do we have a republic or a democracy? Well, what do you say? Also, what about this thing, separation of church and state? Does that mean Christians shouldn’t be involved in government? Guess what? We address those issues and more in our new God and Government course. I invite you to join us to see what the historical record and the Bible has to say about government. Join us for God and Government.
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The world is hurting, streets are filled with crime, families are broken, sin is celebrated, and God is mocked. Everywhere we look, the wages of our sin are on full display. As Christians, we know that surrender to God’s will is the solution to our biggest problems, but not everyone agrees. Even in church, we hear people say the most important thing is to be tolerant, that we shouldn’t impose a morality on other people, and that loving our neighbor means celebrating what they do. but you can’t do that. It’s not that you don’t love your neighbor, you do, but you care about God’s opinion more than your neighbor’s opinion, and this makes you different. In fact, sometimes it makes you feel alone, like you are the only one. But there is good news, you are not alone, not even close. Research has found that there are 59 million American adults who are a lot like you. There are millions of people around the country who are born again, deeply committed to practicing their faith, and believe the Bible is the reliable Word of God. But that’s not all. They’re also engaged in our government. They’re voters. They’re more likely to be involved in their community, and they’re making a difference in elections. The problem is that a lot of them feel alone, too. We want to change that. FRC wants to connect these 59 million Americans to speak the truth together, no matter the cost. If you want to learn more about this group and what it means to be a spiritually active, governance-engaged conservative, or if you want to find out if you are one of these sage cons yourself, go to frc.org slash sagecon and take the quiz to find out. The world is hurting and we have the solution. We can’t do it alone, but we can do it if we work together. That’s what we’re working toward every day. Join us. Go to FRC.org slash S-A-G-E-C-O-N SageCon to learn more. That’s S-A-G-E-C-O-N SageCon to learn more.
SPEAKER 04 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us as we broadcast from the CBN studios in Jerusalem. Our appreciation to them for hosting us as I’ve been here in Israel this week, traveling around the country, primarily in Judea and Samaria. We’re going to talk more about that in a moment. God and Government, a new series that we have released. We’re coming up this coming week on our fourth episode. It’s a 13-week study. God and Government in Barry and Lightning, helping you understand government in light of scripture. If you’d like to be a part of that, text the word COURSE to 67742. That’s COURSE to 67742. All right, today’s word comes from Jeremiah 42, verse 4. Then Jeremiah the prophet said to them, I have heard. Indeed, I will pray to the Lord your God according to your words, and it shall be that whatever the Lord answers you, I will declare it to you. I will keep nothing back from you. Well, the people sought really a rubber stamp for their plans, but Jeremiah warned them that he would speak only what the Lord revealed. Now, this should be the guide for all who share God’s word. Our own opinions do not carry the weight of divine truth. Though we may fear conflict or hurting others’ feelings, we must remain faithful to our calling by God. As Paul said in Acts 20, we are to declare the whole counsel of God. He also urged Timothy in 2 Timothy 4, verse 2, “…preach the word, be ready in season and out, convince, rebuke, exhort with all love, longsuffering, and teaching.” May we, like Jeremiah, hold back nothing of God’s truth. Let us stay true to scripture, prepared to speak it boldly, yet lovingly, honoring the God who entrusted us with his word. For more. On our journey through the scripture, text the word Bible to 67742. That’s Bible to 67742. Earlier this week, Arab leaders endorsed an alternative Gaza reconstruction plan put forth by Egypt in response to President Trump’s proposal last month for the war-torn area. But both the U.S. and Israel have rejected the proposal, saying it fails to address realities in Gaza. So what are the areas of contention over Gaza’s future and what is the most likely outcome? With me in studio to discuss this, Professor Eugene Kantorovich, who is the director of the Center for Middle East Studies. and international law at George Mason University, Scalia School of Law. He is also a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation. Professor, welcome to Washington Watch. Good to see you. Great to be with you, Tony. So you actually wrote about that, this topic, this week in a piece published in the Wall Street Journal. You say President Trump’s plan is solid.
SPEAKER 05 :
Absolutely. So many people have criticized it from the perspective of international law, because part of the plan involves resettling the current population of Gaza. And what people need to understand is that the people in Gaza now, the Arabs in Gaza, are actually being held prisoner there. They’re not allowed to leave. They’re not allowed to leave by Hamas on the inside and Egypt on the outside. The entire area is one big human shield. Isn’t that against international law? Absolutely. First of all, Hamas is coercing people to stay. And Egypt has an obligation under refugee law to take people who are fleeing. The problem is President Biden treated.
SPEAKER 04 :
Why? I mean, the question is, why did given the fact that Egypt is a large recipient, second largest recipient of foreign aid for the United States, why were they not leaned on?
SPEAKER 05 :
Exactly. Because President Biden treated the border of Gaza and Egypt like he should have treated the U.S. southern border. Nobody can go through. And the U.S. southern border, like he should have treated the Gaza border, guys seek refuge because they see for the Biden administration and the Obama administration, a Palestinian state is not just a policy idea. It’s almost like an ideology, a mission. And they don’t want anything that could undermine a Palestinian state, even if they have to keep the Palestinians prisoner to do it.
SPEAKER 04 :
So let me make sure I’m clear on what you’re saying, Eugene, that this could unravel the entire two-state propaganda that we’ve been hearing since 1947, that it in fact is not workable. It’s not going to happen.
SPEAKER 05 :
Absolutely. And that’s why they’re not being allowed to leave. In surveys before the war, before the war, something like 40 percent of people in Gaza said they want to leave. Right now, it’s going to be much more. But of course, that removes one of the big impetuses for forcing Israel to allow the creation of a Palestinian state. And that’s why the world has created basically a North Korea situation. in Gaza, an iron curtain. And President Trump is saying, I’m going to lift the iron curtain. I’m going to let people in Gaza go. That is a victory for international law. That is a humanitarian policy. What are the next steps? So the next step, I think we already touched on. People in Gaza are not leaving because, first of all, Hamas keeps them inside. So Israel has to be completely allowed to defeat Hamas, has to destroy every aspect of Hamas power so they can’t coerce their own people, so that they can’t threaten Israel. Egypt gets $3 billion a year from the United States, which is a huge thing for them, big part of their military economy. Why are they pointing their tanks at the fence to shoot Gazans who would want to leave, who would want to escape? Those tanks are being paid for by U.S. dollars. We should not be paying them to keep Gazans in prison. We should tell them they have, you know, this $3 billion is going to disappear if they don’t let the people in Gaza leave.
SPEAKER 04 :
Professor, is there another side of this for just a moment? Let me ask you this. And I’ve spent a little bit of time in Egypt. I’ve met with LCC, President LCC. I would say he has a very fragile government. It’s one of the most chaotic places I’ve ever visited. Is this not an admission that they don’t want the problems that have been created by Hamas in the radicalization of the Gazans?
SPEAKER 05 :
yeah and i think it certainly is and i think it teaches us something so much about this two-state solution that every supposed middle east expert said was the solution no arab country wants to admit the people of gaza as refugees in any number right but yet israel was supposed to allow the creation of a country sandwiching israel from both sides with eight miles in between uh which no arab state would uh certainly would allow But nobody is suggesting that they have to stay in Egypt. They probably don’t want to stay in Egypt. Egypt is just the first place that they would be able to leave through. But they could presumably resettle throughout Europe, throughout Turkey, which is a big fan of the Palestinian cause. They don’t all have to stay in Egypt. And I think that’s something that we should be very sympathetic to.
SPEAKER 04 :
Your suggestion is, if I recall correctly, is in our conversation, is that they should be free to go. Exactly.
SPEAKER 05 :
For example- They make the choice where they want to go. Millions of people fled the Syrian conflict. Millions of people fled the Ukrainian conflict, Afghanistan. There was no international plan for where they’re going to go. Some went to one country, some went to another. That’s the normal way these things work. The key is to allow them to leave. And I don’t think most of them want to be in Egypt because they understand the Egyptians are not going to treat them well. So they will find their ways to countries that will treat them better, where they could make a better life. And what President Trump has suggested is there can even be financial support for this from the other countries of the Middle East. So instead of us paying the Egyptians to pay to keep the Gazans trapped, we’ll pay to let them free.
SPEAKER 04 :
But here’s the downside for the United Nations and others who have used the Palestinians as props for the last half a century. How do they rob Israel of its land?
SPEAKER 05 :
Exactly. You said it exactly right, the way I put it in my Wall Street Journal article. The Palestinians have been treated as serfs by the international community. They’re not allowed to ever leave, and they have a hereditary status as refugees, even if they’ve never fled anywhere, even if they’ve been in the same place for generations. Serfdom is not something that we really recognize these days. And I think President Trump has a plan that really would be called progressive if it didn’t have the feature of happening to help Israel be safe.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. At the beginning of the program, I had David Minter on spokesman for the Israeli government spokesman. And I played a clip from the Secretary General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres, this week making the comment that the only way forward for peace in the Middle East is a two-state solution with a divided Jerusalem as the capital for both of those states. I mean, who believes that? After October the 7th, who believes that?
SPEAKER 05 :
So, I think we have to understand, and as people of faith, it’s important to understand that there’s faith that comes in all sorts of costumes. And the secular cosmopolitan ideology that they have has all of the aspects of faith. That is to say, this has become a religion for them. They have made an idol out of this two-state solution. And they’re not going to lose faith in it easily. It is a kind of fundamental commitment. But how do they see it coming about?
SPEAKER 04 :
I mean, we pray, but we also work to see those prayers come to reality.
SPEAKER 05 :
How do they- They don’t take President Trump seriously enough yet. They think they can wait him out. They think he’s- As they have many other Republican floating out, but there’s never been a Republican administration like this one. They think he’s floating trial balloons. So they think if you create some kind of, you know, if you stick to your guns, it will be the same. But the most interesting thing that they still say, the two-state solution, regardless of what happens in the world, their prescription is the same. That is to say, it is not responsive to changes in circumstances, to new evidence, to new developments. In that way, it’s…
SPEAKER 04 :
But the situation here in the Middle East is so volatile right now that just trying to wait out President Trump, I think, is just waiting for another explosion to occur when you have Iran about ready to break out with a nuclear weapon. You’ve got them flooding Judea and Samaria with advanced weaponry through Jordan. It’s just a matter of time.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s a ticking time bomb here. So President Trump understands that we need to end the conflict here. That what you see here, for as long as we’ve been talking about the two-state solution, we have had cycles of mass terror and full-scale war every couple years. So the two-state solution is not leading us to a path towards peace. declaring the conflict over, recognizing Israel’s legitimate rights in a way that discourages and disincentivizes attacks on Israel. That is the way to peace and stability. But the U.N. doesn’t really care about that. We have to, of course, UNRWA, the United Nations agency heavily in Gaza and Judea and Samaria, was essentially seamlessly merged with Hamas.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, they’ve been fueling ideologically the divide in their educational system. Exactly. And I’ve seen the material. It is inciting violence and hatred toward the Jewish people, in fact, refusing to even show the state of Israel on their maps.
SPEAKER 05 :
And I think we still quote the U.N. Secretary General as a diplomat. But I think one thing up to October 7th has at least revealed to the people of Israel is that the U.N. is really just terrorists in suits. That is to say, they knew about it. They didn’t do anything about it. And they’re still covering up for it and trying to prevent punishment of those people involved.
SPEAKER 04 :
Professor, I’ve not been able to validate, verify this. I’m just seeing news that there are some reports that the Trump administration, considering the same concept that he has stated for Gaza as being a way forward in Judea and Samaria.
SPEAKER 05 :
So obviously the situation in Judea and Samaria is quite different. And I think the situation of the Arab residents there is far from as desperate because there’s not been a war there. But part of that plan that President Trump seems to be considering is a recognition of Israeli sovereignty in Judea and Samaria.
SPEAKER 04 :
That would be really the first part. Which allows then more of a security presence to disarm and to… to basically eliminate the threat, the terrorist threat.
SPEAKER 05 :
And it disincentivizes, exactly that. And it also disincentivizes the terrorist threat. The reason the terrorists think they have a chance is because the international community keeps saying Central Israel is still up for grabs.
SPEAKER 04 :
To that point, I was talking earlier with a member of the Knesset, Ohad Tal, the term West Bank that’s been used since 1947, 1948, that term incites rather than brings peace to this region, because it does suggest what you said, that somehow this land has been taken and that if there’s just enough opposition, it’ll be taken back.
SPEAKER 05 :
Exactly. And we see, President Trump has a blueprint for how to make this work. He said that Jerusalem is the sovereign capital of the Jewish nation for a few reasons. A, because he said it’s true and I want to live in the universe of reality. B, pretending it’s not true only encourages the Arabs to have unrealistic demands and unrealistic expectations about the future of Jerusalem. Take it off the table. And we took it off the table, and what happened? We got the Abraham Accords. That is to say, making the expectations realistic is actually going to bring peace to the region.
SPEAKER 04 :
Also, when you look at the situation in Judea and Samaria, How do you see where you have the Arab communities, and there are clearly, as we talked about, Iran sending in, smuggling in weapons to basically support terrorist activity there. The declaration of sovereignty over that area, would that not also be a major setback to Iran?
SPEAKER 05 :
It would mean Iran has, as a result of the wars it started on October 7th, lost basically all of its pieces on the border.
SPEAKER 04 :
And one of the most important things when it comes to the Middle East is power and land. Absolutely. And of course, from a biblical standpoint, the covenant with Abraham dealt with people, land, and a promise. And by recognizing that this is in fact the land of the Jewish people historically, biblically, that I would think would be a major disincentive to terrorists to undertake things like what happened on October the 7th.
SPEAKER 05 :
Absolutely, it would have the advantage of both strengthening Israel in a security perspective, but also strengthening it morally. There’s a reason that the places where the Jewish presence is most criticized are those places that are most fundamental to Jewish biblical identity. Almost everything. Jerusalem, Hebron, Nablus, Shem. These are the central places because they understand that if you can make the Jews concede the places that are fundamental. That’s their identity. That’s the identity of the Jewish people. And after that, Tel Aviv becomes very hard to maintain if it’s not really just an auxiliary to the claim on Jerusalem. Right, right.
SPEAKER 04 :
Fascinating times. Appreciate your insight and clarity on these issues and look forward to talking to you further. Absolutely. Great. And folks, I wanna thank you for joining us as well. And I do wanna encourage you once again to be praying for the situation, very volatile, but there’s also light at the end of the tunnel here as the world fueled in large part by believers understand what is happening here and the clarity of President Trump. I think there is a way for a managed peace in the days ahead, but it’s gonna take bold leadership covered by significant prayer. So I encourage you to be praying. All right, folks, that’s all we have time for today. Thank you for joining us as we have been broadcasting here from the CBN studios in Jerusalem. Till next time, just keep standing.
SPEAKER 06 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
