Ever wondered what it takes to be a true sportsman in Colorado? Tune in as host Scott Watley brings you an action-packed episode featuring Kevin Flesch and special guest Lane Walter. Lane, a dedicated outdoor enthusiast and Colorado Parks and Wildlife Liaison, discusses the complexities of managing wildlife resources amidst changing regulations and public opinion. He shares heartfelt stories of taking his family on backcountry trips, emphasizing the value of experiences over possessions. Dive into intriguing discussions about the implications of crowded hunting areas, the benefits of responsible trophy hunting, and how ordinary citizens can make a difference in
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to Sportsman of Colorado, Colorado’s premier outdoor radio show heard every Saturday afternoon on KLZ 560 with insights on hunting, fishing, archery, guns, and ammo from Colorado’s top outfitters featuring the industry’s leading experts on how to enhance your experience in the great outdoors. Now, here’s your host, Scott Watley.
SPEAKER 07 :
Good afternoon and welcome to Sportsman of Colorado. Thank you so much for joining us today. We’ve got a jam-packed show for you, a lot of information that you need to hear. So I hope you will plan to spend the next 56 minutes with us, and we would love to have you. Dan Gates is going to join us in the last half hour of the show. In a minute, we’ll get to our special guest, Lane Walter. But first of all, Kevin Flesch joins us in the studio. Kevin, good to see you. Good to see you. Lots of fun stuff to talk about today. Man, a lot of stuff. Hey, some fun, but some just challenging. Well, that’s true. That is a good point. You did a little bird hunting this morning.
SPEAKER 09 :
I did, yeah. I thought maybe it was the last bird hunt of the year, but… out at Rocky Mountain Roosters, of course, not wild birds, but saw a lot of birds. Sadie and I did. We had a little date, Sadie and I did, at the end of the year, thinking that this may be our last hunt. But, yeah, it was super nice. You know, we got some snow last night, just a skiff of snow, maybe an inch or so. It was super slick driving around this morning. I don’t know if you were out driving, but there were cars flipped over all over the place between Denver out to Kiowa. Yeah, but then the bird hunting was good, and we had fun. Shot a double on checker and missed a double on a couple of roosters early on in the morning, but it was a little rusty. I hadn’t shot for, I don’t know, a couple months, I guess. A couple months, yeah. I’ve been busy. Wow. But it was good. Figured stuff out, and Sadie hunted well. Yeah, good deal. It was awesome.
SPEAKER 07 :
Our next guest is going to join us. Lane Walter is with us, and I appreciate Lane coming on. I just checked with him this morning to see if he could come on. Lane, first of all, welcome to the show. How are you, bud?
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, man, I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on. I got big shoes to fill if you got Dan Gates coming in after me.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, but listen, I was sitting here trying to think, driving over, how do I introduce you, dude? Because it’s like, I mean, for, I don’t know, 10, 12 years, I guess we’ve known each other, but I mean, man, it seems like you just got a Superman cape in the outdoors. I don’t know of anything you don’t do in the outdoors, so tell us a little bit.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’m just trying to be outdoors as much as possible, and now it’s at this point, get my kids out there with me as much as possible, if that makes sense. Boy, it sure does.
SPEAKER 07 :
It sure does. Lane is a firefighter as well, and we appreciate his service in that arena. But seriously, tell us a little bit about all you’re involved in right now, and then we’ll get into some conversation here.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I think a boiled-down version of it, I am a hardcore bow hunter that’s not scared to pick up a rifle if it means I get to go out and hunt more. And Then I filmed for different, I’ve filmed for different hunting shows. I filmed for different people and put a lot of stuff and do a lot of outdoor photography and videography for different companies. And yeah. And then if that’s not working out, then I’ll just hang out with a buddy and tag along on their hunt and do whatever I can to be outside. And like I said, try to get my kids out there as much as possible. Now, my wife and I took them up to Alaska this year for a DIY moose hunt where we paid a pilot to drop us off in the middle of nowhere and hunted on a lake for 10 days and just the kids back there with no cell phone service. Yeah. How old are your kids?
SPEAKER 09 :
They’re 8 and 10. Wow. 10 days in the backcountry of Alaska with just mom and dad.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, yeah. And then Grandpa came with. My wife’s dad came with, and it was, yeah, just totally awesome to have them back there. She wouldn’t let them take their iPads or anything. Yeah, yeah. The first five minutes of being back there, man, I think they’d lost their bear spray and they were just feral kids like they should be. Yeah. Like growing up the way I feel like most kids should have that opportunity, that chance.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. Did they have some trouble coming back and realizing how different life is sort of in, you know, the real world, so to speak?
SPEAKER 06 :
I joke around with them all the time if they’re spoiled. I try to give them experiences instead of stuff, if that makes sense. Mm-hmm. Um, so yeah, I think when they came back and they were just like, all right, cool. Uh, when’s the next, uh, when’s our next adventure? I think that’s just kind of what they count down to. We were just in La Paz for a week with once again, her family fishing. Like we got to go out on a boat for two days and fish and just have a good time and like. I’m trying to give them experiences instead of stuff.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, that’s awesome. That changes them for life.
SPEAKER 07 :
If you get nothing from today’s show, get that. Give them experiences instead of stuff. That is awesome.
SPEAKER 06 :
Don’t get me wrong. They get stuff, too. Everybody else gets enough stuff of what they need, but when it comes down to it, they’re not going to remember any of that. They’re not going to remember what they were doing. That’s going to shape them to who they’re supposed to be. I think with Alaska… And then these backcountry hunts they’ve been on with us and just whether we’re scouting and riding the horses back in 10 miles, like they know that when they’re back there, it’s on them to do a lot of everything. Oh, sure. I ain’t doing it for them and no one else is coming to save them. So it’s on them. And that’s what I think is really good for them to learn.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, that independence and being self-confident and taking care of themselves and really recognizing. I mean, I’ve had some experiences with my kids, too, where you get into a situation like we got lost grouse hunting once in the Northwoods in Wisconsin. And we were just talking about not really lost, lost, but kind of lost. You knew you were in Wisconsin. I knew we were in within five miles of the truck. I didn’t know exactly what five miles we were in. And so then we just started talking about sort of, you know, what are we going to do to figure out which way we’re going to go and all of that sort of stuff. And it was a really good learning for them experience, you know, just talking about just basic stuff of what you do.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. Interesting. Exactly. Yeah. So Lane, you’ve been doing some things with CPW as well. And I know you go to a lot of meetings and you’re in on a lot of Zoom calls, different things. Kind of give us the heartbeat of what’s going on right now. Yeah. It seems like there’s so many changes with CPW right now.
SPEAKER 06 :
There are a lot. So the way I’m so involved with it, I am the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Liaison for the Colorado Bowhunters Association, which is I got into that role because I already was so involved just as a regular citizen showing up to these meetings and listening and letting my voice be heard. I think it was five years ago now. was the lead guy behind a legislation bill to try and limit non-resident OTC archery and rifle, because I seen how overcrowded those units were becoming. And I didn’t want the tap to bleed dry before they did something about it. That’s basically what it came down to is I saw that the tap was getting, it was getting blood dry. And if we didn’t put some kind of stop on the dam, then it was going to be, all the water was going to be gone. We weren’t going to have elk herds to hunt and it wasn’t going to be a quality hunt. And it really hit me hard to, When I had a friend from California come out here and hunt with me and he goes, man, I will never come back and hunt OTC archery until it’s limited. He goes, I’ll go hunt Wyoming. I’ll go hunt Montana. I’ll go hunt all these other states. And man, that hurt. to hear that, oh, I’m not going to come hunt your state because it sucks for these guys coming out of resident. And so that was one of the main driving factors before it, not that I hate the non-resident. It was actually so that we can provide a quality hunt and be that top hunt in people’s mind when it comes to it. So that was five years ago. Started getting more involved. And next thing you know, Henry Ferguson is like, hey, we really need you doing this for the Bowhunters Association because you’re already doing it. which was good. But at the same time, I’d take a step back now. And now when I talk, I’m not talking for what Lane wants. I’m talking for what all the Colorado bow hunters want and what is best for the Colorado bow hunters, which by the way, does vary from what my opinion is sometimes. And I have to put my opinion on the back burner. I have to talk. But the big thing that I think what you’re asking me to come on and talk about now is not so much the history as so much as what’s going on with the changes that are going to come and what are going to be implemented in parks and wildlife in the next couple of years and The big thing that us with the Colorado Bowhunter Association, I want to say, helped with last year is we saved over-the-counter archery for residents. And there’s still a lot of people with confusion about it because when they put out what their plan was for the five-year big game season structure, it was no OTC archery at all. And we piped up and were like, hey, no, one, why are you eliminating us instead of the rifle first? And there was no good answer. Like, in my mind, there still is no good answer other than that bow hunters were complaining about overcrowding, so their simple solution was, okay, we’ll just limit it then. And so we stepped up and we fought and we had a lot of meetings. We had private meetings, we had public meetings, and we got it to where, at least for the next five years, Colorado residents still have an OTC archery option, but the non-residents are now going to be limited. And Parks and Wildlife did just come out and say at one of their sports and roundtable meetings that they’re going to still sell and they’re planning on selling the same amount of tags to non-residents as what was sold last year, but it’s going to be through the draw. So it’s at least going to be limited. They’re not going to be able to move around the state. They’re going to have to draw a unit and stay in that unit. And they’re going to just for the next couple years gauge how much interest is still there for the non-resident, which I believe 100% they’re going to sell out. or at least be very close to selling out the same way that Arizona, when they limited their OTC deer, was selling out. Idaho sells out. If they had the ability on their website, they’d sell out in minutes instead of it takes all day. But they sell out all their tags. Wyoming, to draw a general tag as a non-resident, takes four or five years now of points. Montana is the same way it’s going to take you. If, you know, two to three years on the average. So I don’t see why Colorado is not going to be selling out, but they’re scared about it. It’s just personal opinion there. So they’re doing it a safe way. They’re gauging it. And so it’s at least going to be limited.
SPEAKER 09 :
But doesn’t it also make sense to do that? Because then you can control what units you’re going to be putting those over.
SPEAKER 06 :
A hundred percent. And that’s why I asked for a cap. I’ve been asking for a cap, like I said, for five years. And as I said, we don’t need to let’s just put a cap on it at first. And they were so scared of what it’s going to do to their revenue. But in 2019, they had a huge, over 20% increase in their revenue. And then they had an increase again in their revenue. and they just keep getting all this money. And in my opinion, it’s not going to where it should be because now it’s back to, oh, we’re scared to lose this couple million off from this, whereas they gained millions off from requiring the qualified license.
SPEAKER 09 :
And have you been able to determine where exactly those funds were going to? I mean, they’re going back into conservation?
SPEAKER 06 :
You know what’s really crazy? Without doing a CORA request, a lot of the information isn’t on their website anymore. In fact, if anybody else can do this better than me, I’m sure there’s a lot of tech people out there that can, but I just Googled Parks and Wildlife’s budget in 2023. It’s not even – it says – and a Google link pops up, and you click on it, and it says, oops, it’s not here anymore. All that information is gone from the website, which is just crazy to see. And so I’m relying off of news stories and stuff, which – Some of them are combining the Parks and Wildlife’s budget from tag revenue with the new revenue that they’re getting, which I think last year was $40 million from that Keep Colorado Wild Pass. And their revenue has gone up quite a bit in the past couple years. So the fact that they’re saying, hey, we can’t do this for what, by the way, in my opinion, what is best for the wildlife because of budget – I just, that’s where we’re butting heads a little bit. And then we have some good sportspersons representatives in there for the commissioners, like Artero has been really good at speaking for, and Murphy Robinson has been just, in my mind, an all-star pick for commissioners. I know there’s a lot of people that want to complain about who we have on the commission, but as far as the sportspersons representatives that we have in there now, Haskett is on her way out, and she… And I have not seen eye to eye on certain things, but she will always do what she thinks is best for the wildlife and the hunters. And I really believe that Otero and Robinson are in there for the exact same thing. And so I think that. when people attack the commissioner kind of like hurts a little bit because they are in there doing exactly what they think is best. And I have a great relationship with Otero and Robertson. And at the same time, I’ll tell them, Hey, this is what the bow hunters want, what they, what they want to do. And they will go do something different at times because they’re listening to a lot of other people as well. And they’re doing what they think is best as a whole, which that is 100% who we need in there is somebody that has their own brain and They’re not going to do exactly what this person says, and they’re not going to do exactly what that person says, but they’re going to listen to everything and come up with what they think is going to be the best for the wildlife. And so who we have right now I think is really good. Now some of the other pigs that are in there, they’re doing their own agenda. They’re doing their own thing. But our sportspersons represented, I think, are really like we could be doing a lot worse. Right.
SPEAKER 07 :
Lane Walters, our guest. Looking back, real quick, and then I want to stick with what’s going on, but was it just a huge bad decision to combine Division of Wildlife and Parks and Wildlife?
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, it’s funny looking back on it. I wasn’t super involved with it back then. I was just hunting and I knew what happened, but I wasn’t following the political side of it nearly as much as what I am now. And I know a lot of people complain about it, but with that Keep Colorado Wild Pass coming in, parks is flush now, if that makes sense. So now it’s almost like they found a revenue source to help with that. If they wanted to different later but in my opinion like there’s so political driven with what’s going on now anyway and i i don’t know would i like to see it just game and fish absolutely yeah I would like to see the parks on their own side, but do I think it’s ever going to change? I don’t think so. I think it’s too interwoven now for them to do anything about it.
SPEAKER 07 :
What about involvement that you’re seeing in these commission meetings from just sportsmen and outdoorsmen? I mean, I’ll be honest with you. I’m frustrated a lot. It seems like every meeting’s at noon on a Wednesday or something like that, and I’m on air from noon to 1. So, I mean, I can’t join. So, I mean, I get it when some people say, hey, I just can’t do it. But I feel like there are a lot of people that probably could be more involved. So are you seeing involvement? I think the Prop 127 showed us, hey, a bunch of people come together, we can get a victory.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, man, the good thing about the – if there’s one good thing that came from the wolf thing, it kind of woke up hunters that we need to speak up and we need to let our voice be heard and we need to talk to our neighbors and our friends that don’t hunt and educate them a little bit as to what’s going on. So then when Prop 127 came up, they started talking. We started talking to our friends. We started talking to our neighbors, letting them know how the North American model for conservation works. And we did it in a good way. And we came across. And then when we showed up and we spoke at these meetings, we didn’t come across like the crazy cat ladies did. And I can say that that’s exactly what it was. New Jersey crazy cat ladies showing us, telling us how we need to manage our wildlife. And it’s like, well, I’m sorry, like you live in New Jersey, worry about New Jersey. Stay away from my stuff and let’s go with the North American model for conservation because that’s what works. And so if there’s one good thing that came from the wolves, it’s that we woke up and we started talking and we realized that we can’t just sit back on our haunches. And now they’ve woken something up. And so they lost 127 by a larger margin than they ever thought was possible because of that. And because of people like who’s coming on with Dan Gates, I’m sure he’ll get a lot more into it. That’s also why this newest prop. The House bill that they tried to pass didn’t pass because we woke up and we spoke and we showed up and we started calling. And they’ve awoken a sleeping giant that I think is a lot bigger than what they thought was there. And we’re not a minority. And a lot of people are going to agree with that. We actually care about these animals. And if we can show that, that’s where it comes across. But we’ve got to stop being quiet. We got to stop just letting the little pacifist things go by. And it’s really simple things. My mom’s cousin just posted something the other day about if you hunt for food, I’m okay with it. But if you travel to Africa to trophy hunt, you’re a POS. And so I got on there. I’ve been to Africa. In fact, the people that are about to get my truck with me are my guides from Africa. They’re over here right now, and they’re going to go to the Colorado Association banquet with me tonight. And so all I did is I got on there very politely. I said, hey, there’s a lot to unpack here in this statement. But trophy hunting saved Africa’s wildlife. Without it, they wouldn’t have nearly as much as what’s there right now. I go, you need to educate yourself on it before you say these blanket statements. And then I posted a story and this anti-hunter talking about how when they banned lion hunting in Botswana, it destroyed their lion population because it took away the value from the wildlife. So I just did very respectful posts on there. But in the past, I would just let it go. But I’m not letting it go anymore. Like, we can’t let it go. When something, you’ve got to be respectful about it, but you can’t let those little slides go because we’re all in it together. And I don’t care if you ever want to go hunt Africa. By the way, I never wanted to go hunt Africa. And two years ago, I ended up over there because my wife bought a hunt. She won it? Because at like a Pheasants Forever banquet or a Ducks Unlimited banquet, whatever it was, She’s like, hey, would you be mad if I bought this? And I was like, well, not really. I guess we’re going to Africa. We took the kids over there. It was the most amazing eye-opening experience I’ve ever had, and now I can’t wait to go back. I used to say I’ll hunt Africa when I can’t walk, and now I can’t wait to get back over there.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, I’m telling you, man, I went the first time.
SPEAKER 06 :
Whether you have a plan for Africa or not, we can’t be digging on the trophy hunters over there because that’s who’s saving the animals over there is the hunters. I got to see how my kills were given to the local people. I got to see how every ounce of meat was used. I got to see how I was helping employ these people that normally wouldn’t be employable in a big city, and they’re getting to stay and live wild still. So don’t tell me that I’m a bad person because I went over and did it, when you’re probably never going to even go over there and spend a dollar.
SPEAKER 09 :
No, completely. You give that animal some value, and that’s how we save them. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 06 :
They’ve got to have a monetary value to be stable. And that’s how we give them that monetary value. Now circling back on my weave of what’s going on with the commission, because I know I only have seven minutes before you’ve got Dan coming on. Oh, that’s okay. That’s okay, dude. He makes my knowledge on this look just so minuscule. I can’t appreciate what he has done for us so much. Absolutely love Dan. But for the Parks and Wildlife Changes, they did, after a lot of complaining, one of the commissioners touched and said, hey, Let’s put together this group to try to simplify the draw and see if we can do something about point creep. And in my opinion, they complicated it and they did nothing but make point creep worse. But take that for what it is. These are the changes that are going to be implemented in 2028. The meeting on Wednesday for the Parks and Wildlife Commission, they just voted to solidify all of these changes that I’m about to talk about. And I’ll touch on the preference point fee on how that’s the only thing that got changed. But instead of going to all high point draw in Colorado, we’re going to have a hybrid draw. So 50% of the tags are going to go to the high point holders now. But then the other 50% of the tags are going to go what they call a weighted random. So if you have zero points and you apply for this unit, your name goes in the hat one time. And if you have 10 points… Your name goes in the hat 11 times. If you have 20 points, your name goes. So you basically get that point for the year that you’re applying on it. So 20, you have 21. And then it’s a random draw. It still favors the higher point holders. But if you have zero points, you have a chance of drawing one of these really hard units. It’s not going to be a great chance. In my opinion, that’s going to make point creep worse. It’s going to take a five-point unit, and it’s going to make it an eight-point unit. just because people are going to start drawing it with 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4, and then the high point’s just going to keep applying for it, and they’re going to keep missing out. It’s going to make point creep worse, but that’s what’s coming on. What we have right now is non-resident peg allocations is 25%, and residents get 75% of the draw unless it’s a high-demand unit, and then that was switched to an 80-20 to favor the residents. that 80-20 is going away. They’re making it 75-25 across the board. So residents are losing out on 5% of those high-demand tags. If you’ve been waiting 25 years to draw a 201 and you thought, oh, I got three more years, on 2028 you just tacked on a couple more years.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow. The sheep, moose, and goat, they’re going to get away with the weighted points and all that stuff, and it’s just going to be a 100% bonus draw the same way that 50% of the high-weighted random is. It’s really not going to change your chances at all. It’s just easier to explain to people. But there’s still going to be that three-point minimum. Okay. All right. So that you have that barrier of entry. You’ve got to have applied for three years before your name goes into the hat for a tag. And then they’re going to change the reissued tags and the return tags to where when you apply for your tag, there’s going to be an option to opt in of like, hey, if somebody returns a tag and you’re next up, do you want it? but it will use your points. So if you’re putting in for, let’s just, I’m just going to throw out a random unit of 60. You’re putting in for units, we’ll say 61. They used to do that if there was enough time, they would call people and the next person on the list, and if they got through five people and they didn’t want it, it went to the reissued tag list. Well, now they’re not going to do that. It’s just going to, hey, did the next person in line say they wanted it? Yep. Okay, cool. Here you go. It goes to you. And they’re going to do that up until two weeks until the season starts. I have mixed feelings on a lot of that. I think that it should stop 45 days before the season because I know a lot of people that have gotten that phone call within 30 minutes or 30 days of the season starting saying, hey, it’s going to ease your points. Do you want it? And not a single one of those people after the season was over said they would do it again. They said, like, I know so many people that have done it for 76 and 61. They got that phone call. They were super excited. They were like, yeah, I’m going to do it, but they hadn’t scouted. they had no time and no information about the unit and they went in there and they came out and whether they tagged out or not they all said they felt like they got cheated out of an experience whereas if that tag had just gone to somebody on the reissued on the reissued list and are the return tag list you got somebody that’s stoked they just got a 10-year tag unit for nothing and whether they go in there and kill or not they’re coming out with this super positive experience because they they got to hunt this tag they never thought they would have got a hunt I do like the idea of doing it up to the 45. I think at the 45-day mark, though, that’s where you’re really putting people on a hard point and they can’t go out there and they can’t scout. I would really like to see that changed. We’ve got a couple years to talk about it. And I totally get it. There’s people that are like, oh, yeah, I would totally take that tag. But if you’re waiting 25 years for a tag and it just automatically gets assigned to you two weeks before the season – that probably is not going to be a quality, it’s not going to be a 25-year for you. Like if I draw a tag that takes 10 years, I’m out there three or four times scouting. To me, the scouting is the absolute best part. That’s where I’m getting to learn these animals. That’s where I’m getting to watch them. I was lucky enough to draw a big orange sheep tag. I spent 45 days in that canyon scouting those rams. So then when I killed on the seventh day of being picky, then I didn’t feel like I was shorted at all because technically I’d hunted for 50 days. But you’re taking that away from these people. That’s just my personal opinion on it. I do think that should change a little bit. But once again, that’s right now, that’s where we’re at, is up to two weeks. So it’s going to be nice. You’re not going to have people that will be like, hey, I put in for that unit. I had 50% draw odds. I didn’t draw. How come it’s on the return tag list two months before the season? Well, I totally agree with them. That should be on the reissued. You’re going to have a chance to go in and change that too.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
In July, you’re like, hey, I don’t want that tag to come to me in October now because I made other plans. You can change that. So there is a way to get in there and do it. I’m just worried about people forgetting to change it. They get the tag at the two-week mark. Well, now you’re not allowed to turn that back in and get your points back. That return tag timeline is 30 days. Then you’re stuck.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Then you’re stuck with it. Now you have somebody that just wasted 20 points hypothetically, and they’re like, I can’t even hunt this unit, and I can’t return and get my points back. I just got hosed. That’s what I foresee coming with that. I don’t think that was talked about or thought about. I think it was just with the kindest intentions of the big game draw working group saying, hey, we want to get these tags in the hands of people with the points. Absolutely. I agree. I think that’s going to be an unintended consequence. Yeah. Hey, real quick.
SPEAKER 07 :
Go ahead.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, go ahead. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
Keep going.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, go ahead. Well, there’s two more things on it. Right now, the way Colorado’s draw works is your first choice, that 75-25 allocation applies. On the second choice, third and fourth, that’s just, it goes to whoever gets it. It doesn’t matter resident or non-resident. You’re on the first and the second choice. that 75-25 split is going to apply for both now. And then the third and the fourth is going to go back into a random for everybody. So it does help the residents there. The Big Game Draw working group had recommended that applies to the first, second, third, and fourth. But the Parks and Wildlife staff said they were worried about losing too much money. They’re like, well, in a worst-case scenario, we would lose out on $4 million. They’re like, but it’s completely unrealistic to think it would be that. But then they kept saying this $4 million, this $4 million. So you had some of these commissioners who were entrusted for what’s doing what’s best for parks and wildlife and our wildlife worried about that they were potentially voting on cutting out up to $4 million. That’s why it got cut down to the first and the second choice only. So then they turned around and they said, well, let’s just start charging for preference points, which was not recommended by the draw working group. And They said, we’re going to charge $15 for residents for a deer, elk, bear, pronghorn, and turkey point, and we’re going to charge $30 to non-residents per point. And in this last meeting on Wednesday, we showed up. We talked. I spoke with commissioners beforehand. A lot of residents and non-residents spoke and said, hey, like, that’s a big jump for a lot of us. I already pay more. It costs me more money as a resident to apply for Colorado’s draw than without this fee thing, without this Preference Point fee than it does for me to apply for every big game species in New Mexico. And then I apply for my wife, and then I’m going to be applying for my kids. It’s already costing me more money than it costs as a non-resident to apply there. How come you want to increase that by another… it would turn out to be $60 to $90, depending on which species I’m applying for. That’s a huge jump. And so they said they’re not going to put a dollar amount on it yet. They’re going to do more work and see how much money and potential revenue they actually could lose with it, and then look at other revenue sources to make up for that. What they said realistically is less than a $2 million loss. So hopefully that point seed doesn’t come through, but there’s a chance that it’s still going to come through.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. Hey, real quick. I agree. I think Alaska is the, I mean, Alaska, Africa is the best value in hunting, man. I’ve been able to go four times over there. I would tell you, I went in 2013, 15, 16, and 17. It was crazy. It gets in your blood, man. So I hope you can get back over there and Hey, I’ll see you over in a couple hours here at the banquet, man.
SPEAKER 06 :
Awesome. Awesome. Yeah, like I said, when I went out, those guys I went with, they’re called Thaba Yamanzi, and it was the most, like, I didn’t know what to expect, and I just came back and was like, that was one of the best hunting trips of my life. Yeah, it’s crazy. And I’ve been blessed to do a lot of cool things, and it was just super awesome to be over there with these guys that just, and now every year they come over for the Western Hunt Expo, and then they drive over from Salt Lake, and they spend some time with us. That’s how great these people are, you know, and that’s who people are. like dumping on when they dump when they say negative things about trophy hunters like hey these are great people that are huge hunters that care about these wildlife just as much as i do and it wouldn’t be there without them yep absolutely hey man mile high hunt expo april 11th through the 13th that’s going to be awesome again lane so i’m sure we’ll see you there as well i just got done with the teaser for them so they’re going to start uh abe’s going to start posting that stuff so look forward to that that’s that is quickly in my mind becoming the best that’s going to be it’s going to rival the western expo here in a couple years yep absolutely hey bud we appreciate it i’ll see you soon up there in loveland Sounds great. Thanks, man.
SPEAKER 07 :
All right, thanks. Thanks, Lane. That’s Lane Walter. And I tell you, I wish we had a three-hour show and we’d get into things like this, Kevin, because there’s so much to go on and talk about.
SPEAKER 09 :
You know, there’s just not enough time, and it’s one of those situations where he gives us so much information. And I’m just doing some of the calculations in my head relating to the 75-25 split and then how the leftover text.
SPEAKER 07 :
We need to do classes on this to people.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m like, holy cow, I need like a schematic of somehow how that all works.
SPEAKER 07 :
Lane’s knowledgeable, man, for sure. Tell you what, we’re going to take a quick break. Dan Gates is going to join us here in just a second. I know we’ve got a caller, so hold on for us. And Dan Gates will be right with us from Colorado and is responsible for wildlife management right after this.
SPEAKER 03 :
Here’s why you need personal injury attorney Kevin Flesch on your side. He understands the way the jury thinks. In the context of a personal injury case, you’ve been hurt by someone else’s negligence. The idea is that you’re going to try to recover so that you can get back to where you were just prior to that incident occurring. What that really means from a jurist’s perspective is that you’re going to be asking them to award you money. So when we talk about fairness, we’re talking about six people that you don’t know. Those six people view the evidence and make a unanimous decision that will decide what the fair value is. When you’re the one who’s hurt, you have a good idea of what you think it’s worth. The question is, can you persuade those other individuals whom you don’t know and were witnesses to believe that’s what the case is worth? Kevin Flesch understands the way the jury thinks. Call now for a free consultation, 303-806-8886. You’re listening to KLZ 560 AM, your home station.
SPEAKER 07 :
Welcome back to Sportsman Colorado. Again, thank you so much for being with us today. As I just mentioned, they’re Mile High Hunt and Fish Expo, April 11th through the 13th. Now, go to milehighhuntexpo.com. There you can get your tickets. You can get also all the event details. There are some after parties, after events on Friday night and Saturday night. Those are separate ticketed events. If you put in the promo code SOCR for Sportsman of Colorado Radio 2025, so SOCR 2025, and the general admission tickets, you’ll get a $4 discount off of each ticket there just putting that promo code in. So be sure and put that in. We will be there as well, Kevin and I, with our Sportsman Colorado booth. And it is a fantastic expo. And I promise you, you will not – I tell people all the time, Kevin, if you need pillows, lotion, sunglass cleaner, squeegees or something, don’t come to this expo because it is a real outdoor expo. All right, well, hey, we’ve got Dan Gates joining us a few minutes late here. Dan, blame Lane Walter. He took up six minutes of your time.
SPEAKER 02 :
And everybody talks about me talking long.
SPEAKER 07 :
Man, he wouldn’t let us say anything. He just took off. Yeah, absolutely. Dan Gates, Colorado’s responsible for wildlife management. Hey, check out SaveTheHuntColorado.com as well. And, Dan, I announced you were on, and, man, we’ve had a caller holding for a few minutes, but I’m going to give you 60 seconds here just to kind of tell us a little bit what’s going on, and then we’ve got a caller for you here.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, appreciate the opportunity, guys. Look forward to seeing you guys over the course of the next several weeks. Yeah, it’s a full boat right now, full court press at the Colorado General Assembly and the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission. And we’ve got a ton of different bills that are happening or that have happened. A lot of things happening at the commission level. And the Coloradans for Responsible Wildlife Management, along with a plethora of other organizations for the Colorado Wildlife Conservation Project, are doing what we can to sustain wildlife management in perpetuity, save the hunt, and keep the fires burning to the point to where maybe we don’t have to do a ballot initiative again next fall.
SPEAKER 07 :
Absolutely. Well, I tell you what, we’ve got Christine on the line. She’s in Jefferson, Colorado. Christine, you’re on Sports from Colorado. How are you?
SPEAKER 08 :
Good. How are you?
SPEAKER 07 :
We’re doing well. We’re doing well. I don’t know if you want to talk to me, Kevin, or Dan. I’m sure it’s probably Dan.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I did have a question for Dan. Okay. I appreciate you taking my call.
SPEAKER 07 :
You bet.
SPEAKER 08 :
Sure.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, yeah. So what the sportsman community and CRWM have accomplished has been nothing but less than remarkable. But what else needs to be done to save the hunt? And how can the average sportsman help? Like what are some action items that we can do moving forward?
SPEAKER 02 :
Good question. Yeah, great question. Well, Christine, appreciate the call and the question. You know, the biggest thing, we have so much momentum that’s been built in Colorado with all the victories over the course of the last five and six years with everything that we have done collectively, community-wise. And 127, Prop 127, brought such attention to this state that, you know, a lot of people think that, well, you won the Super Bowl, you’re the champion, and you don’t need to do anything else. you know, moving forward. That’s not the truth. And, you know, if you look at whether you are a Kansas City Chief fan or a New England Patriot fan, every time they won a championship, they become a bigger target. And that’s exactly what we’ve become here in Colorado. And not just CRWM, but the community as a whole. And the antis have come out in full force, and they’ve actually started new organizations, got new outside funding, got new representation from around the country. They have new vigor installed into their losses and trying to figure out what they can do because they want to be the champions. They want to capitalize on the last 20 months of Governor Polis and First Gentleman Marlon Reese. And they want to turn around and take advantage of the setting that is available to them and try to get their agenda passed. And I’ve got a few updates to give Scott and Kevin today. But the biggest thing is for people to get engaged, pay attention, know what’s going on. And, you know, I think it’s a good time to mention this, that April 1st is the deadline to apply for licenses in the state this year, I think. And if people would take… just a quarter of the amount of time that they spend on researching licenses and allocations and preference points, if they take the quarter of amount of time to pay attention to what’s going on at the state capitol and through the Parks and Wildlife Commission, in the next 60 days, we could actually investigate the opportunity on how to further educate our side, the middle-of-the-road people that helped us win on 127, and maybe even educate the antis as we go forward because this is something that benefits them as a whole. They just don’t recognize it because they don’t see the benefits of conservation. So engagement, motivation, education. And involvement is something that we just have to get our side to be able to turn around and continue to do on top of what they’ve done previously.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right. Christine, you know, first of all, I’m thrilled that you called. First of all, just to call and be listening. We appreciate it. But also from a female perspective, you know, to an outdoor hunting show. Tell us just a little bit about maybe Prop 127, kind of what that meant to you. And I don’t know if you hunt or not. If you do, great. If you don’t, that’s fine, too. And how did you approach that with friends or acquaintances back then?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, yeah. My family hunts. We come from a hunting family. And we also, this proposition was near and dear to us because we run hounds. So that was pretty important to us to get out and just educate. And I know that CRWM just had so many great talking points, but resources that I could send people to, their website, to Dan himself. I know that he was just so educational. So it’s really important to us to really echo what Dan said, which is get out and educate people on why this was so important, not just to cat hunters, but to sportsmen as a whole.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s clear, Scott, that that’s what we need to continue to do. And as Dan has said, we have to continue that momentum. So we really appreciate your phone call and the questions to give our listeners some ideas as to what to do and give Dan the platform to talk about it.
SPEAKER 07 :
All right, Christine.
SPEAKER 05 :
I appreciate it. Thank you.
SPEAKER 07 :
And, Dan, we did kind of talk about this, and I believe your term was boots on the ground, and I think that was, don’t you think, really what threw this swing in our favor so much was just the ground game that we had here and what you led absolutely did a great job in that. And I know there was a lot of other people that helped, but, you know, your leadership and your one voice kind of doing all this for us I think really was important too.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I thank the community for the support post-election, but they saw the sense of urgency during the campaign. To some people that found out about this campaign back in November, they found out about two or three or four weeks ahead of time. We had started that campaign essentially back in 2019 by beating them at every single level through the Parks and Wildlife Commission, the General Assembly with Senate Bill 31, and then they were forced to go to the ballot. Well, coincidentally enough, now they’ve gone back to the commission and gone back to the legislature, as we just won on Thursday with House Bill 1258, where we beat that back 10 to 3. And it’s essentially the same language that was in the ballot, except for the fact that the bill itself didn’t talk about mountain lions, but every single testimony did. And you can see where they want to go. Well, our community stepped up remarkably well, as Christine said, all the way since 2019. And we’ve continually built momentum. We haven’t lost anything. And as I said, you get a bigger target on your back when you’re the champion. And we have been the champion. But organizations in-state, out-of-state, sportsmen and women in-state and out-of-state, people from all around the country, the business industry, came together. And now you start to see through the social media movement that we’ve got going nationwide that that other groups and entities are stepping up and trying to emulate, duplicate, and replicate what CRWM started with, and that we got the support of groups like Howl for Wildlife and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and Wild Sheep Foundation and Rocky Mountain Bighorn Society and Safari Club International, which I’m going to their Colorado Springs banquet tonight to help emcee that. And one of our counterparts in our association is going to the Colorado Bowhunters Banquet in Loveland up there and receiving what I understand is an award and getting a chance to do some stage time. But it’s not about CRWM. It’s just that CRWM had the logo on the front and had the money and the resources to be able to do this at the start. But the organizations and individuals and entities and business leaders that came together, it’s remarkable to me, guys, that they actually… the groups nationwide have actually continued to try to build support because they see that if they don’t, then they’re going to be on the chopping block next.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, House Bill 1258, 10-3 vote, that is a substantial win for hunters and those that really believe in the wildlife management techniques that we’ve used historically, really, over the last 100 years, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER 02 :
If you look at the people that tried to get Representative Story to run that bill, they were the exact same people, the exact same organizations that fronted and still work on the Cats Aren’t Trophy campaign or the Project Coyote campaign or the Wild Earth Guardians or the Center for Biological Diversity. It’s the same people. It’s not an offshoot. It’s the exact same people that got her through smoke and mirrors to say, we should do this because this should pass. Look, every time they come to approach us with anything other than science, they lose. But they don’t want to use science because then they know they’ll lose. So they have to argue in some form or fashion to the point where it’s, you know, I keep saying lies, deceit, falsehoods, and fallacies. Well, that’s what it is. If you listen to the testimony of that particular House bill or at the Parks and Wildlife Commission meeting on Wednesday and Thursday, which is on YouTube, you can go listen to that yourself. It’s amazing to me that the people are blinded with their own rhetoric to the point that they start to believe their own lies. And that’s the only comments and the only justification they have to even listen to themselves talk. It’s lies.
SPEAKER 09 :
Dan, is this a national trend that they’re trying to do this in lots of different places, or is Colorado just sort of the tip of the spear relating to their efforts on trying to…
SPEAKER 02 :
with Governor Polis and First Gentleman Marlon Reese, you know, essentially in power. I mean, First Gentleman is more of an instigator behind the scenes on this, but the governor has the magic wand to be able to make a lot of this stuff happen as far as appointments and as far as, you know, trying to put people in the right position to do the right things about how he and his husband, how they see wildlife management. But this is not centric to just Colorado. Look at what they tried to do in Arizona right after the election. Look what’s going on in New Mexico, what they’re trying to do in Nevada. We’ve got significant changes happening in California and Washington and Oregon. And then we’ve been outreached by Montana and Wyoming and Idaho. And it’s not just the western United States. Now we’ve got groups out of Ohio and Pennsylvania wanting to know what we can do to suggest on how they can build up their armament because they saw how successful we were, but they also paid into our process and our program to help us win, and they saw that, okay, we kicked in $1,000 or we kicked in $50 or whatever it might be. We had skin in that game because we hunt in Colorado or we have preference points in Colorado or we have property in Colorado. They saw that if they didn’t participate in the other state, who was going to be there to turn around and support them in their state? And now it’s a, I got to say, it’s a remarkable movement that has been created. And there’s not a time that you look on social media that you don’t see something coming from a sportsman, a sportsman’s group, some organization, some business leader that says, we need to do this and you need to belly up to the bar and we need to get back in gear to continue to save the hunt, no matter what species, no matter what method of take or no matter what state.
SPEAKER 07 :
Wow. Dan Gates is our guest. Once again, SaveTheHuntColorado.com. And yeah, Dan, I’m heading up to, you know, I was trying to figure out which one to go to. Brett’s Banquet, because I love Brett. I wanted to be at SCI. Then you got the CBA Banquet. So I’m heading north. But yeah, that will be a good banquet up there. And for both of those and great organizations. And I know Brett, you know. Helped us tremendously with all this. You know, there was an article the other day. As a matter of fact, Charlie, our producer here, sent it to me the other day, I believe, where a couple of ranchers received over $300,000 due to wolf depredation there. Fill us in kind of what’s going on there and what you’re seeing with this wolf deal.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, there’s a lot of things happening within the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission trying to figure out how they’re going to further implement their non-lethal plan. And the plan has taken some detours at different levels. And some of that, I personally believe or we believe that a lot of that is coming from a higher up than what the agency, Colorado Parks and Wildlife, has a decision to make on. Some of it has to do with the national or the federal side of things, whether it’s the NEPA process, EIS, which is endangered species, or any of the other components that went into the original, you know, making of the plan. And the gentleman that got reimbursed, what I would say is they got compensated for losses themselves. But probably, as you heard or anybody would hear Chair Dallas May with the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission state, he didn’t think that the claims were high enough. He himself thought that the claims should have been more exuberant than what they actually were. This is not an uncostly venture. And while the average person on the front range will never, ever see any of the loss or never have any interaction with any wolves, whether we stop introduction, whether we continue introduction, or whether we continue just managing what we have right now, the people that are adversely affected out of these introductions are the ones that are going to continually have to deal with the brunt of the introduction. And that’s a lot of time, effort, stress, financial loss. uh you know family family issues um stop and think that if you had you know a gang move into your neighborhood and nobody would listen to you now this is a story that we hear in denver quite often yeah but you have a gang moving to denver and nobody would listen to you and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it but you have to deal with them every day that’s what these ranchers are having to deal with yeah and i’m not saying that the commission isn’t doing the right thing But the commission has the power to be able to do what’s necessary and what’s imperative. And I’ll jump into another deal. There’s two individuals, several individuals, that are trying to start a ballot initiative process for 2026. And I want to correct any misinformation that’s been out there. It’s not a repeal ballot initiative on introduction of wolves. It would stop the introduction of But not until December 31st of 2026. So you would still have this year and next year to continually put wolves on the landscape, whether they got them in country or out of country. But we need to address the management side as much as what we need to address the time of the introduction side. And I don’t know where this is going to go right now, and we haven’t taken an official position as far as support or oppose or monitor or amend or anything. But we’re trying to figure out where this is going to go, and it’s going to be another wildlife-related ballot initiative on the 2026 General Assembly election. which is the same time we have another governor election because Governor Polis will be termed out. We need to figure out as a community where we need to go for the best interest of Colorado’s wildlife, the managers of Colorado’s wildlife, the landowners and the livestock producers, the recreationists, the sportsmen and women, and the general public. But if we can’t figure that out by the next election, I will tell you that wolves will create significant turmoil and hassle everywhere. whether the Trump administration does something federally, whether state administrations do something within their states. We’ve got a big road to tow on this next ballot-driven initiative, but it won’t happen until 2026, and there’s a lot of hurdles to cross between now and then.
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, Dan, you look on social media, I mean, there’s so many podcasters, there’s so many groups that say they’re in this fight for wildlife and all, yet sometimes the messages are not the same. And I think that’s frustrating for people. So what is your advice to folks to say, hey, you know, I mean, you know we’re in your camp, so to speak, and, you know, we trust everything that you’re saying, but sometimes some of these groups – We may be confused and other people listen to them and it may go against a little bit of something of what you’re saying. How do we help people get the truth? They need to listen to your podcast first, all right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. So when we started a podcast the first of the year, it’s called Through the Gates to Save the Hunt. And it’s on YouTube and it’s on any of the social channels and stuff, any of the platforms and forums. But what I would say is, you know, it’s not so much that you have to do a complete, you But you’ve got to do a little bit of research. Just because somebody sits behind a computer and starts some sort of a social media program or a podcast or whatever doesn’t mean that they’re intimately involved with the decision makers of commissioners and legislators and elected officials. They have to have some boots on the ground experience. And I’ve said this over and over, guys, that outside interests provide a value benefit as long as there’s a grassroots level that can support that benefit. Outside interests that don’t have in-state grassroots efforts. I mean staunch, hard-line grassroots efforts. Not a guy that wants to turn around and go to a street corner, or not a guy that turns around and knows somebody. You have to have a coalition like what we’ve created in-state to be able to support those outside interests. that’s where you make the decision on where you want to put your money, how you want to support these things, how you want to get involved, how you want to see it through. But this is a fight that takes 365 days out of the year, and I think the sportsmen and women of most states, including Colorado, have taken it for granted that it’s a right. And it’s not a right, it’s a privilege. In some states it’s become a right, but it doesn’t mean that you still don’t have to fight for it. And I think that the ones that are fighting… 365 days out of the year, the ones that have a collective coalition, an alliance within whatever state it is, can use the outside support from any other entity. But they have to have a grassroots level like what we’ve been able to, you know, complete building here that we’re still building on. But, you know, people just need to do their homework and research their own interest and find out, you know, the level between the BSers and the doers. Yep.
SPEAKER 07 :
These commissioners, real quick, time for one more question, but are these commissioners, are they appointed by polis? I mean, are they elect? I mean, how do these people get on this commission board?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, yeah, good question. And actually, there’s four confirmation hearings that should take place next week at the Senate Ad Committee. That would be on the 13th at the Senate Ad Committee at the General Assembly, the Colorado State Capitol. But they are all up for the four of them. Chair Dallas May, Tyja Cooper, Murphy Robinson, and Jay Tuchton are all up for confirmation hearing through the Senate Ag Committee at 1.30, and the governor appoints them. They are Senate-confirmed. People are fully available to provide their own input and testimony on this, which the legislature, the Senate Ag Committee, gets a ton of input, pro and con, on. Each one of them has a four-year term, and they’re eligible for two four-year terms, and they have to meet the statutory requirements about Democrats, Republicans, or Independents. They have to be from geographical locations within the state, and then they have representation, supposed representation, of different sectors of the community. So there’s several sportsman positions, one outfitter position, several rec positions, several ag positions, several at-large, several at non-consumptive, And in totality, there’s 11 commissioners, but the general public doesn’t have anything to say in the process of selection, but they do have the opportunity to comment when the Senate Ag Committee is looking to confirm those individuals. All right.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, Dan, our time’s always too short, but, Bud, you know you’re always welcome, so you let me know when there’s some more things we need to share with our audience. But, again, thanks for all your hard work. Have a good time down the springs, and we’ll see your buddy up in Loveland.
SPEAKER 02 :
Appreciate your guys’ time. Look forward to seeing you. And we will definitely be at the Mile High Hunting Fish Expo. And if you’d like to get on our podcast, Scott, I’ll be more than happy to have you on there. But I know your time is limited as well.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, hey, I know. I’d love to. And certainly we’ll be doing live shows there as well. So we’ll get you on as well. Good deal.
SPEAKER 02 :
All right. Thanks, bud.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s Dan Gates. And, hey, Mile High Hunt Expo, milehighhuntexpo.com for your tickets. Today’s show is brought to you by Flesh Law as well as the Mile High Hunt Expo. Kevin? Fast show. Fast show, man. Lots to talk about. All right, man. We appreciate your time. All right. Thank you. Thanks for being with us today. Hope you have a great rest of your day. Leave it right here on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 04 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
