Join hosts Andy Pate and Rachel Maines as they discuss the pervasive influence of social evangelism and its implications on contemporary Christianity. This episode critiques the notion of comfort-driven evangelism and highlights the consequences of prioritizing deeds over a true commitment to faith. Through a detailed breakdown of biblical passages, they point towards the path of genuine belief and the importance of pointing good deeds towards glorifying God.
SPEAKER 04 :
This is Rush to Reason. You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes. With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 07 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did! Get a job, Turk! You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 09 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 14 :
Are you crazy? Am I?
SPEAKER 05 :
Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 10 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Actually, it’s Andy Pate. Party of choice.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome to our number two here on Rush to Reason, KLZ 560. I’m Andy Pate filling in for John Rush along with Rachel Maines of AM670KLTT.
SPEAKER 16 :
Check us out on 670KLTT.com.
SPEAKER 08 :
And who is our other co-host here?
SPEAKER 16 :
Anne Meadow.
SPEAKER 08 :
Little Meadow.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, Little Meadow. She just got a treat. You want a treat? It’s liver.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, throw it in the air. I’ll see if I can catch it in my mouth.
SPEAKER 16 :
Freeze-dried dog treats. Beef liver.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, yeah. I’m down for that. Okay. Let’s see if we can get this in in one segment because then I want to get to schooling. I want to get to education. There is a serious case of grooming that was done out in Jeffco in the Columbine High School that I’d like to get to. And it is really awful. But I think people need to know about it, about what teachers are doing with your kids. Yeah. And it’s pretty serious. But first. Getting back to He Gets Us. I think a lot of people can look at this and be saying, Andy, come on, they’re just nice ads, okay? They’re talking about doing good deeds, washing people’s feet, being selfless, taking care of this person. Yeah, they take some political shots. They’re pretty left-wing. But, you know, come on, Andy, that’s not a big deal. Here’s why it is a big deal. And here’s something that I think the church has really gotten wrong. Good deeds. Why do we do them? Why do we do good deeds? Let me ask you a few questions here, Rachel, because you’re an expert. You do good deeds. You’re a professional good deed doer. I’ve seen you do it. Okay, don’t hide it. Here we go. Is it to make us good people? Are we defined by our deeds?
SPEAKER 16 :
No.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, absolutely not. I mean, by grace, you are saved in this, you know, through faith, through faith in Christ, in Christ, not of works, lest any man should boast. OK, if our deeds made us better people, then we could boast of it. And that would give our deeds a selfish motive, which would make us worse people.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
You see how that doesn’t work, folks? The math. The math is bad. Something can’t make it better and worse at the same time. It doesn’t work, okay? Next, is it to fix the world? Do we reverse the curse with our good deeds? Is this the Tower of Babel? We all come together doing good deeds and forget you, God. You were wrong way back then. We’ve got it finally figured out. He gets us, has taught us. We’re going to come together, do good things, and fix this world. What do you say, Rachel?
SPEAKER 16 :
I disagree with that. Yeah. You know, on their website they say, Jesus showed us what greatness really is, and he didn’t come to show people what greatness is. He came to save people.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 16 :
So if you’re not going to share the truth of the gospel, pointless.
SPEAKER 08 :
Sure, if you want to go— Why would you be saved if there’s nothing to be saved from? Right, exactly. If they don’t say you have to leave any of your sin, why be saved? Go ahead.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. Well, there’s so much to say there, but just— If we’re not going to have the real gospel, then what’s the point? If you want to go do good deeds, well, then start an organization, nonprofit, and go do good deeds. But don’t say that Jesus is behind it. The message of the cross and the gospel is the most, in my opinion, important message ever. It’s going to determine where we’re spending eternity. So you’ve got to get the gospel right. So this organization, He Gets Us, is not the real gospel, which can lead a lot of people into confusion, lead people astray, and then maybe never hear the real gospel.
SPEAKER 08 :
Let me give a quick example. He gets us one thing on their website they talk about is John 8. And that’s the story, remember, the woman, the adulteress, okay? And the people were going to stone her, stone her, stone her, which, by the way, reminds me of a Monty Python skit. But they were going to stone her. And what does he say? Jesus says, let any of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her. Okay. And at this, by the way, it’s a good thing Meadow isn’t there because Meadow is sinless and Meadow might have thrown a stone.
SPEAKER 15 :
She’s perfect.
SPEAKER 08 :
She might have started something bad.
SPEAKER 15 :
Maybe a treat. She threw a treat.
SPEAKER 08 :
She could have wrecked his entire message. No, she’s just wandering around. Okay. And they say, and he gets us. They’ll look at that and say, see, we’re not supposed to. You’re throwing the first stone. You’re judging people. Do not judge lest you be judged. Another scripture they mangle. But they forget what comes at the end of this passage. Okay, it’s John 8, 8 through 11. I won’t read through all of it. He does look at the woman. He says… all the people leave because nobody’s without sin she says woman where are they has no one condemned you and she says no one sir and he says then neither do i condemn you oh that’s wonderful beautiful yeah yeah what does he say then go and sin no more go and sin no more where does he gets us tell anyone sin no more
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. Well, I don’t even think it never does. Yeah. They never talk about sin. No, it’s irrelevant in this message. Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, and people get they get angry when you say, well, homosexuality is a sin. Yes, it is. OK, folks, sin is not just when you do something bad to another person. OK. It is also when you do something bad to the creator God. If God has a created design with the human body, and then you use it unnaturally against that design. Now, does this mean I hate gay people? No, my best friend at work was a gay person. You live your life, okay? But that doesn’t mean there are no consequences. Okay, you live your life, but I’m not going to be dishonest about the consequences. He gets us is dishonest about the consequences. Okay. Why do we do good deeds? We looked at these things here. Is it to make us good? No. Is it to fix the world? No. Is it a fishing lure? Okay. Remember, Peter, you guys be fishers of men. Are we bribing listeners with good deeds? Do we bribe them into the church with good deeds? No.
SPEAKER 16 :
using the buddy christ method to get them then to listen to the gospel message is that the way we’re supposed to do it no i mean good deeds actually just puff you up with pride or religious pride and then you assume that because of my good deeds i deserve to go into heaven right um because that’s the real goal right i mean if you believe there is an afterlife then you got to ask the question is there hell is there heaven a lot of people nowadays just think there’s just heaven They don’t believe in hell because a good God, in their opinion, wouldn’t create a hell.
SPEAKER 08 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 16 :
So good deeds, gospel message is, like we discussed, not the real gospel, plus creating pride in people to think, well, I deserve to go into heaven. The message of the cross— I’ve earned my way. I’ve earned my way. The message of the cross is no one was good and no not one. Jesus is in our place, and then we receive him. And then as we have a relationship with him, he will work in our hearts to do good deeds, but it’s not good deeds to earn. It’s because he loved me, he’s forgiven me, that I do good deeds. But it’s not something that we do as an earn. It’s like more as a thankfulness.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Remember, when you lead with deeds first evangelism, he gets us in all social evangelism and achieves something Jesus could never achieve. It makes Jesus common. It makes him the same as all other religions. Why? All religions can sell deeds. Only one religion can sell the gospel, the true gospel. And this is the problem. When you lead with deeds first, even if you then give people the truth, I got news for you. They’re looking at you saying, yeah, but you hooked me in on this. We’ve got to keep in mind, people are addicted to the world, not eternity with God. They’re addicted to the world. That’s the problem. That’s called sin, right? We are addicted to the creation, not the creator, to the provision, not the provider, to the gifts, not the giver, right? That’s what we’re into. And if we hook them more on the world… by taking care of the things we do with them. By the way, we should do good deeds, but I’m going to tell you why in a moment. I’m telling you the bad reasons to do it here. If we hook them more in the world to draw them away from the world, does that make any sense?
SPEAKER 16 :
No.
SPEAKER 08 :
So I’m gonna hook you more. I’m gonna do these good deeds for you, make life more comfortable, or I’ll have super music at my church, or I’ll have a great youth program, and I’ll provide all kinds of comforts. I’ll bring you in with comforts. I’ll bring you in with music. I’ll bring you in with good deeds. I’ll bring you in with things that you already like in this world that you could have without Jesus, to lead you to Jesus. So I’m going to get you more hooked on the very things that you rely on to get you to rely on Christ.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. What you’re describing, I guess I would call, you know, the club of Christian being at like a membership of the Christian club.
SPEAKER 08 :
I call it bait and switch.
SPEAKER 16 :
Oh yeah. And that’s a good way to describe it too. Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Because I’m using the bait, bait, bait, bait, bait, bait. And I’m using bait and switch. Okay. Because the idea is then I’m going to… and we got tons and millions and millions of lazy Christians. What they do is this. I’m going to use all these baits, all these baits, right? And then I’m going to bring them into the church, and we’re going to have a great pastor who’s really good at preaching.
SPEAKER 16 :
And give kind of like a TED Talk.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, this is called the big fisherman approach, by the way, just so you know. That’s what we called it in Bible college. You would get all these people into the pews and then the big fishermen would reel them in because he is really great with spinning a phrase. So I get them in by nicing them into the church in through the doors. And then they are going to fall at Christ’s feet because of the great message that they hear from the pastor. The problem is, have I converted them to Jesus or have I converted them to Jesus and all the benefits of being in the faith? OK, if you get converted to Jesus and are you converted to Jesus? No.
SPEAKER 16 :
No, it’s Jesus only. Right. It’s coming to the point of, wow, I need God’s grace and mercy.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
Once again, remember, did Jesus say, I am a way, a truth, a life, and I am one of the paths to God? No, no, no. The way, the truth, the life. Right. No one comes to the Father but through me. Okay.
SPEAKER 16 :
You’re describing progressive Christianity, though, really.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, all of it. He Gets Us is simply the latest version of progressive Christianity. Now, Matthew 5.16, it’s a real easy one. In the same way, let your light shine before men that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Notice how you mentioned earlier how when you do good deeds, people like you more, don’t they?
SPEAKER 16 :
Oh, sure. Yes. People like nice people.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes. And there are a lot of Christians saying, no, no, no, I do it to be good. I do it to be good. Hey, let’s be honest with ourselves. Out there on those streets, in your schools, your work everywhere, there are these things called people. And you have tapped them for approval your entire life. Okay. Now. He gets us and other social evangelism, you know, other liberal churches, Christianity Today, these kinds of groups, they come to you and say, you can share Christ in a way that gets them also to like you. Okay. By the way, is that biblical?
SPEAKER 16 :
No.
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s the opposite. Right. Blessed are you when you are persecuted for my name’s sake. Did he say blessed are you when people like you because of the good deeds you do in my name and these bring you favor? Did he say that? No. Okay. That’s not in the Bible. None of he gets us is in the Bible. Okay. Notice how it says here, let your light so shine that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. If you do your deeds correctly, where do they point people’s attention? At you or at your Father in heaven?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, you’re pointing at yourself. They’re pointing at you.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, you’re talking about he gets us. You’re supposed to do good deeds, but if you do them correctly, then they point attention to God. That’s what I’m about to say. Okay. How do we do deeds correctly? How do we do good deeds? Well, I’m going to tell you. There are three words. What is the correct reason to do good deeds? To demonstrate belief. You are demonstrating belief. When you do deeds correctly, all you’re doing is demonstrating belief in God. You’re pointing to Him. Let me give you an example here. Let’s say that you come up to a canyon. Okay. And you’re with somebody else. And they tell you, Rachel, there is an invisible bridge that goes across this canyon. Go ahead and walk across it. Okay. Because guess what? Jesus is invisible. We can’t see, feel, hear, touch, smell him.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right. Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
So that’s basically what we’re telling people. And they say, Rachel, walk across that bridge. But then they won’t walk across it first. What does that tell you? Well, it says they don’t believe. Okay, they don’t believe in the bridge. Let me give you another one. Let’s say that you have a friend who says, I got a great investment opportunity, Rachel. Oh, it’s awesome. You invest in this company, you’re going to make, you know, 30% back in the first year. It’s incredible. But then they won’t put a dime in. What does that tell you?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, same thing.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. What I’m going to talk about after the break is why deeds done correctly Good deeds. All the same good deeds. I want you to do them, folks. But deeds done correctly show people that you believe in the invisible bridge and you believe in the investment. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER 16 :
That makes sense.
SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
Putting reason into your afternoon drive. This is John Rush.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Okay, Rachel, let’s wrap this up really quick. I want to move on to a Colorado school and what they did with a kid. Really quick here, why do we do good deeds? We do them to demonstrate belief. Here’s what I mean. If you want true evangelism, folks, it’s not he gets us, okay? He gets us as deeds first evangelism, portraying Christ as being like every other religion. Right. That’s not good. Here’s 1 Peter 3.15. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect. Okay. When people hear that there’s one big problem, they’re going to say, yeah, but no one’s asking. Okay. You’re right, folks. They’re not asking. Here’s why. It says they’re asking about the hope that you have. If we hope in the same things that other people hope in, are they going to ask us about our hope?
SPEAKER 16 :
No.
SPEAKER 08 :
No. Why would they? Right. We’re hoping. So let’s say you’re working in a job and, you know, you don’t get a promotion that you do deserve. All right. You don’t get a pay raise that you do deserve. You don’t get some, you know, that shift that you do deserve and somebody else gets it and they don’t deserve it. And let’s say you show bitterness over this and you’re frustrated over this and you complain about it and you commiserate with your friends and they say, oh, you’re so right, Rachel, you deserve that. Let me ask you something. Are you showing that you hope in God or that you hope in the world?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, definitely the world.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Every time we show in any way, shape or form that we hope in the world, we are showing people that we hope in the same things they do. Good deeds help break that. OK, so let me give a quick example. Remember when Jesus talked about the widow who gave, you know, all these people were giving their money, you know, to the offering. And then this widow comes in and she only gives two little coins. And Jesus says, truly, I tell you, she has given more than everybody else because she gave all that she had to live on.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. I don’t have time to go to the reference. Think about it from he gets us perspective. That just transferred wealth from the poor. Okay, that was wealth distribution from the poor. If we’re supposed to use good deeds to fix the world and have the greatest worldly impact, then Jesus just got it wrong. She messed up by giving the only two coins that she had to live on. Now we got to take care of her. Now, you see what I mean? This is transferring wealth from the poor. It’s supposed to go the other way around. Jesus, you’re a bad Christian. See what I’m saying? No, because when she gave those two coins all she had to live on, what was she doing? She was showing trust in who? In God. In God. She says, I’m going to trust in the creator, not the creation. In the giver, not the gifts. In the provider, not the provision. I’m not going to fall apart when I don’t get that promotion at work. I’m not going to fall apart when I don’t get the shift I want. I’m not going to fall apart. When I go to a restaurant, I’m going to tip well. Why? I’m not going to cling to that extra couple bucks for dear life. I’m going to tip well. Why? Because I know God has my needs taken care of forever. And by the way, Christians are lousy tippers. And what kind of a witness do you think that is? Go ahead.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, that’s terrible. Yeah, I think, you know, it is simple. We can make our faith complex, but it’s simple. And you just nailed it. If we’re looking… To God as our everything, as our provider, as, you know, even providing emotions that are healthy and also providing wholeness in us, then we will live differently. He’ll change us from the inside and then we will have good deeds. But the motive isn’t, I’m going to go do a good deed. It’s just his change in us. And as we focus on him. Rightly so, our actions will follow of having good deeds. So a question, too, is what is a good deed in his eyes versus what is a good deed in our eyes?
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. A good deed in our eyes, honestly, is one that makes people happy. Happy people like us more. And we want to believe that happy people will draw closer to God through happy. OK, sorry, doesn’t work that way. A true good deed is one that shows people I rely on the invisible bridge. In fact, I’m going to walk on the invisible bridge. Remember the sheep and the goats? OK, I won’t tell the whole story. I’ll simply say this. You know, when Jesus says, you know, and I was hungry and you fed me and I was, you know, the whole story. Right. And at the end he says, as you’ve done for the least of these, you’ve done for me. And the question is, why the least of these? Is it because redistribution of wealth? Because we’re helping those who have the least and therefore we’re redistributing wealth and we’re fixing the world and we’re fixing the problem and the Tower of Babel was right and mankind is united to fix. No. It’s because they can’t pay back, folks.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
If I give Elon Musk, you know, 20 bucks, what am I probably expecting? He can pay it back with interest. He’s going to take care of me. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, your motive behind it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. If I help somebody with nothing, what am I going to get back, Rachel?
SPEAKER 16 :
Nothing.
SPEAKER 08 :
Nothing. I am showing when I help the least of these, I am relying on who? God. I’m looking at him and saying, I have less now. I had more, now I have less, which means I’m relying on you more, which means I’m relying on the world less. That’s why I give to the least of these. In our good deeds, when you do good deeds, folks, the big reason, I’ll wrap it with this, is to show people around you, I rely on him, not all of this. If I hope in the same things you do, you have no reason to ask me about my hope. Always be prepared to give an answer. Right.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. And the draw would be then for them is as they watch your life, Andy, they would want to get to know the God that has changed you so that they too can be changed.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Because now they look at you or back in the workplace and we’ll finish with this. You’re back in the workplace. Okay. You lose that promotion. You lose this. You lose that. Oh, it’s not that you celebrate it. You’re not stupid. I understand that. But you take it with eternal perspective. You realize, wait a minute. I’m going to live forever. This entire life is like we see in the book of James. It’s an instant in time. We are a mist that vanishes. I am here only for an instant. I’ve got eternity with Christ. Losing this promotion is not the end of the world. And you show eternal perspective. And you take it well. And you turn around and you help somebody who can’t pay you back. And you live that kind of a sacrificial life. And you tip well. And you help. And you do hug the gay person. Of course I do. I fuck gay people. I don’t care. You know, but you don’t do it to try to nice them as a lure to get them to listen to gospel messages. You do it to show them this. I’m not afraid. I’ve got eternal life ahead of me. And by the way, I like you.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
And I want the best for you. And that’s it, period.
SPEAKER 16 :
And that Christ has done a work in me. Yeah, I think that’s the thing is he does work in us. We’re his workmanship once we are in relationship with them. You say born again. What does that mean? His spirit comes to live inside of us. Right. And we’re not on the same time frame here. He works individually with each of us because we have so many different nuances in our personalities. Right. He works in us in his time frame. So we don’t need to compare ourselves to other people. Just, you know, focus on what is he doing in me now?
SPEAKER 08 :
Exactly. And once again, what’s the second half of that from first Peter? If they ask you a question, look, if you actually demonstrate hope in the creation creator over the creation and you don’t fall apart every time.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, yeah, and haven’t we all had situations where it’s been devastating, heartbreaking as Christians, but I can look back and I saw the bittersweetness that it drawed me more towards Christ?
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 16 :
And that’s beauty in itself, so it’s not like we shun hardship.
SPEAKER 08 :
The true Christian, like the Apostle Paul, sees suffering as an opportunity.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, to draw near and get closer to our Lord.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and also to demonstrate faith in him. If I have it all, it’s harder to demonstrate faith. If I have less, it’s easier.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
You see, and that is the way. One last thing about he gets us. It says always be prepared to give an answer. He gets us, gives no answers. Right. Folks, he gets us. Leads with deeds, makes Jesus like every other faith. It is the wide gate to destruction. It is the Tower of Babel bringing everybody together. It’s Babylon. That is what he gets us is. It’s basically Babylon. And it’s not good for you. And I think we needed to go away.
SPEAKER 16 :
I agree.
SPEAKER 08 :
I really do. $100 million spent without one single word saying why he’s true.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
What a waste.
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s so sad because they could have shared the real gospel.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, they could have. I think it would have been great. Okay, let’s take a break. We’ll be right back. Veteran Windows and Doors, they tell you how to shop first. They say go ahead and shop first, then go to them. Why? Because you’re going to see the difference in price and quality. So call Veteran at 303-529-0720.
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SPEAKER 06 :
Call in to the KLZ studio line, 303-477-5600. Now, back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason. Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Andy Pate filling in for John Rush on the line right now. We got Richard Rush. Richard, did you suit up for Canada? Did you help them beat us?
SPEAKER 05 :
Andy. Do I have you to blame? Not many nations. There’s not many nations I would suit up for, and Canada is not one of them. Okay. But, Andy, that was fun. You’re not a big hockey guy.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, I’m not.
SPEAKER 05 :
That was fun.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hockey, I’m sorry, but they refuse to score. There’s not enough scoring. You know me. I’m an impatient American. I want scoring.
SPEAKER 05 :
But it is better. You like the NBA because there’s no defense in the NBA these days. Exactly. That’s why you like it.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m in heaven. It doesn’t matter. My team doesn’t win. It doesn’t make any difference. You know, I will say this, though. Hockey is better than soccer because everything on earth is.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, I get up for soccer four times every four years, right? World Cup, all watch. Again, U.S. versus anyone. whatever it might be. But then obviously once we lose, which we’re lucky if we make it to the group of 16, then I sort of tune out. So I’m with you. And, and, and, and I know a lot of people will say that we’re wrong, but we’re right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thus proving again, you’re more man than I, I could not do it. Hey, really quick. And don’t worry. I don’t want to get any ice. We’ve already spent enough time on it, but the, he gets us ads. So these drive you as nuts as me.
SPEAKER 05 :
Uh, just, yeah, not, not my cup of tea. Right. And especially the background and where it, where it comes from. And, it it’s got the potential to be great and it ultimately andy is a good message that sort of thing yes but yeah we’ll just leave it it’s a message to lots of faultiness i mean the idea of do good things i mean that’s fine but i think they go off track after that okay what’s happening sir what’s happening in the world of sports andy it’s it’s a well so so this is like the worst Three weeks in sports, except for this week, right? Because this week we’ve got the Combine, which for you and I and Waltz, of course, is fun, right? Really a fun time. I enjoy it. Not many people do, right? The Underwear Olympics, all the things going on. But outside of that, the next several weeks, Andy, between now and March Madness, and then obviously once March Madness kind of kicks off, we’ve got that for a few weeks, and then we have the Masters. And then we’ve got the NHL and NBA playoffs starting, and then we have the draft, and things start to get rolling. But right now is sort of the dead time in sports.
SPEAKER 08 :
I agree. You know, the underwear Olympics at the Combine, you know, some people write it off, I think, too much. And you know where I am on this. Um, I’m kind of a mix. Okay. Because everybody always, every year, everybody always debates what means more the height, weight, speed, timing, and all, and how they, you know, their strength and all that kind of stuff at the combine. Or. how they performed during the year for their college. And I think it’s a mix. One thing I really like about the Combine is this. Maybe they performed really well at their college because they got a great offensive line in front of them. Maybe they performed really well at their college because their receivers always got open. Or maybe they had a better coach. At least when you go to the Underwear Olympics or the Combine, You know, all that’s taken away. It’s mano a mano, right? You are out there having to do one-on-one drills, pass rushing, one-on-one drills, covering somebody, one-on-one drills, whatever, right? In doing all the throws as a quarterback. I like that. And so because of that, I really do like the combine. Where are you at on this?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I’m with you. I think it can provide value, right? It provides probably most of the value of the stuff that we don’t see, right, Andy? The medicals, the interviews.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 05 :
Teams. I think that, you know, how many times has a medical thing, right, come up with a combine and the team has, you know, checked someone off or an interview has really sold them on a prospect and they’re much more likely to take them, right? And obviously it’s the stuff we don’t see about. But I like to perform. I won’t buy. I do like the measurables when it comes to – because I just like to see the freak assets, right, Andy? Sure. I like to see that linebacker or that defense – that edge player who’s 6’5″, You know, 245 pounds and he runs a 4-4-5. Like, that’s crazy to me. Like, just the amount of the sheer athleticism that that guy brings, I do think that part is fun.
SPEAKER 08 :
However— Well, if I may, really quick here, because I think this is where you’re going. Richard, how do you determine, as a draft guru, because you are— whether this guy is going to look like Tarzan by play like Jane, right? So this guy has all the measurables, but you just know he’s just not going to have it on the field, or maybe he will. Maybe in college he didn’t produce, but he’s going to develop going forward. How do you know?
SPEAKER 05 :
I feel like, Andy, it’s sort of a combination, right? Because it’s my John Ross theory, right? You go back to John Ross, right? I think he ran the fastest 40 in combine history, if I’m not mistaken, right? He was really good in the straight line. Not so good stopping and starting. Right. And you go back and look at some of his other numbers and stuff like that, and it’s like, you know, the Raiders were famous for this, right? You know, Darius Hayward-Bate, that’s a name for you, Andy, and some of you people out there are like, Richard, what are you talking about? All I can say is I just remember a random piece of information.
SPEAKER 08 :
He ran in the low 4-2s and couldn’t play football.
SPEAKER 05 :
ran super fast, yet couldn’t catch the ball, which is kind of important for a receiver. Right, Andy? You’ve got to be able to catch the ball. Or John Ross.
SPEAKER 08 :
John Ross, didn’t he run like a 4-1-8 or 4-1-9 or something crazy? But then, when you can’t look, if you don’t cut fast… You know, when we think about the Cheetah, who is with Kansas City and then, you know, Miami, he’s not just fast straight down the field. He’s fast out of a cut. He bursts out of a cut so fast. That’s where the problem is. How fast are you out of a cut? Because that creates space. If all you are is fast straight down the field, then a good athlete at cornerback just backs up, right?
SPEAKER 05 :
And John Ross couldn’t come out of a cut. And to me, it’s… I think the combine allows for guys who maybe would be overlooked without the combine, and it forces a team to say, let’s go back and re-watch the tape, right? Right. For example, like you said, Tyreek Hill or whatever it might be, because ultimately, Andy, for example, Shigeru Sanders, he’s not going to work out. He’s not going to throw, which to me I think is fine because I think he only has – He can only lose by doing that, and not that he would have a poor showing or anything of that nature.
SPEAKER 08 :
Don’t you worry, though, that he might fall down to around 8 or 9?
SPEAKER 05 :
Andy, to me, I think that teams are going to look at Cam Ward or Shador, and they’re going to say, I like one or the other. I don’t think they’re going to both be a flavor for a lot of teams, which we’re going to see in a second. To me, I think if someone stands out in combine testing… then you go back and look at their film and say, okay, maybe this guy was playing with a terrible defensive line. Maybe he’s an edge rusher. He’s got all of the potential in the world. He just was on a bad team. But, man, he’s 6’5″, 250, 260. He can run lights out. We can work with this kid. That, to me, is where the combine sort of separates us. So you ask kind of how do I determine. I almost say, wow, that guy can jump out of the gym. Then I go back and watch some of the film, not as much as obviously these teams do, and then I say, wow, that might be something that that guy can actually – he might be able to be something. Right. Versus, again, a guy like Darius Hayward-Bey. or John Ross, yeah, jumps off the screen with these really, really great times. But then when you go watch their film, nothing else jumps off the screen. And that’s where I think these teams make the biggest mistakes.
SPEAKER 08 :
You see, this is what I loved about Bo Nix. The film did jump. Okay, he jumped off the film. You could tell in college this guy was kind of a poor man’s Drew Brees. And we never know, you know, will he take the next step and become that? He could. He’s certainly got the talent. Maybe he won’t. Maybe he’ll plateau. You never know, right? You just never know. But when I look at the draft right now. And you’ve got the two top quarterbacks. And a lot of people, because a lot of people are thinking, well, how’s this going to go? You’ve got Cam Ward, like you said, and Shader Sanders. But you’ve also got these insane athletes who are not just athletes, but they are football players. Obviously, Travis Hunter here at Colorado. You’ve got Abdul Carter, right, for Penn State, the edge guy. He’s not just big and fast, dude. He can play. You’ve got Will Johnson, the cornerback from Michigan. You’ve got Ashton Jonte, obviously the running back who you’re hoping will drop to the Broncos. I think that’s hoping a lot. But you’ve got a number of these guys who are freaks, but they can play. So my question to you is this. If you’re sitting there and you’re Tennessee or you’re Cleveland or you’re the Giants, not the Patriots, they kind of got their guy, but if you’re one of those teams, do you take a risk on the QB or do you go for the sure thing?
SPEAKER 05 :
Andy, to me, I feel like if I was these teams, I would have to look and say, I’m not sure. I guess what I would have to look at is say, do I think that one of these quarterbacks can make me leaps and bounds better, or do I think that they can be a Drake man?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, if you’re going to get a Jaden Daniels, yeah, you jump all over it, but go ahead.
SPEAKER 05 :
Of course, even a Bo Nitz, right? Do I think that this guy can do that? But I think, again, as much as I like Shador, and I think that he can be a player, I think in the right situation he can do a lot, and I think that he can surprise people, because I think some people don’t know how good he can be But to me, if I’m Tennessee, you are more than a quarterback away, right?
SPEAKER 01 :
Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
And so how often are you going to get the first overall pick? And when you look at a guy like Abdul Carter, so for folks who don’t know, he’s a pass rusher from Penn State. Freak. To me, he’s Micah Parsons, right? Yeah. And we’ll see how he compares, but to me, he’s that good. And so I take that, and as much as I like Travis Hunter, I’d look at Abdul Carter and say, wow, I would take that guy. If I’m the Browns, I try to trade or maybe take a Travis Hunter, maybe take something else, because even with everything with Deshaun Watson, all of that going on, I still think you’ve got a lot of pieces that you’ve got to add. And, again, as much as I like Shador, as much as I like – well, I’m not a huge Cam Ward guy, but as much as I like some of these other guys, I just think, Andy, that these teams have to look and say – Is there a guy like Jayden Daniels who, you know, Washington wasn’t a quarterback away, but he came in and he really elevated a lot of portions of their team?
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
And so I think obviously they benefited from that. But to me, Shador, I think you’ve got to go to the right place. Honestly, I think Vegas is probably the perfect spot for him because I think a guy like Pete Carroll is going to come in and sort of reshape the culture and we’ll be able to do a lot of that. That would be a nice spot for him.
SPEAKER 08 :
I agree.
SPEAKER 05 :
But if I’m – now, Andy, the Giants are interesting. And the reason the Giants are interesting is because I don’t know if their front office and their general manager, their general manager and their coach, I don’t know if they have much more time. This, to me, feels like their last go-around. And it’s like, okay, if you pick a quarterback like Shador or Cam Ward, and maybe he shows a little bit of promise in year one, you might be able to get an extra year. Versus if you pass on the guy… you better make sure you’re passing on him for the right dude. And I just don’t know if they have the extra leeway of time. And I think that plays a role into it. But if I’m Cleveland or if I’m Tennessee Indy, you either trade back or you take one of these other guys. Because I do think there’s some talent, Andy, and you and I have talked about this. There is some talent available. It’s just that a matter of, well, maybe which position that talent is available at.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, one last quick question, real quick, and then we’ll go to break. We’ll come back and talk a little, maybe NBA. I don’t know. There’s a lot of things we can talk about. Do you have any question, though, that you’ve got a star in Travis Hunter, Abdul Carter, or Will Johnson? I mean, looking at these, and Ashton Jonte, but he is a running back. It’s a little different. But looking at these guys, they just seem like sure things.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, Andy, I mean, again, Travis, I know a lot of guys are talking about he’s a corner that’s going to play some wide receiver. I prefer him at corner. Yeah, and I’m too. I think he’s going to play some key roles. Really, it’s not going to be for his whole career. As much as I think it’s crazy what he did in college and I get what Dion’s saying, the NFL is just a different game, Andy. Maybe we can talk about that briefly when we come back. But yeah, I think Abdul Carter is as close to a sure thing as you get. Same with Travis Hunter. I think both of these guys are. I think there’s some offensive linemen that are that way. But to me, the strength of this draft, Andy, is sort of in those middle-tier prospects where there’s maybe not a ton of bona fide stars, but there’s a lot of really good depth and some really good pieces that can really enhance some teams.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, offensive line. And I know a lot of people are listening. They don’t know these names, but you’re going to. Will Campbell, Kelvin Banks. I mean, you’re going to know these guys, and they’re really good. I mean, they are really exciting, and I don’t know if I’d want to take any chances. Okay, let’s take a break. We’ll be right back with Richard Rush. Up next is Ridgeline Auto Brokers. When you’re looking at used cars, you want good selection and the best inspections. Ridgeline has both, and you’ll find both at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 06 :
We don’t yell at you. We inform you. Now, back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason. Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Richard Rush is on right now. Richard, got just a couple minutes left here. I think the Denver Nuggets are now one of the top four teams in the league. I think they’ve risen up there. I think you’re talking Cleveland. You’re talking Boston. You’re talking OKC and Denver. What do you think?
SPEAKER 05 :
I love your confidence, Andy, because I’m not quite there. And the main thing is they don’t have enough consistency, right? They have the best player on the planet in Jokic. And if Jamal Murray, Michael Porter, if those guys can come along with him consistently, I am in full agreement with you. They are really tough to beat. Darn near impossible. Even OKC, I think they’ve got a little bit more championship metal than OKC does. I just am not ready. I just haven’t seen enough of it yet to 100%. But I think they’ve got all the talent in the world to get there. I just don’t know if they’re quite there in terms of consistency. And that’s what makes me nervous because I think that they can, and I think that they’re potentially squandering a darn near one of the top seasons of all time for anyone in the entire history of the NBA and for wherever you want to put Joker on the scale. So that’s what worries me. But I love your confidence, and I’ll take it as a guy who’s sort of an outsider, and that’s not your team. So I’ll take it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, yeah, I think they’re terrific. I think, look, no offense, but I do see, as the frontrunners, I do see the top two teams being the frontrunners because they are that good. Cleveland and OKC are just, I love these teams. I do. I love how they’re constructed. I love how they play. I think they finally, they’re not so young now. I think they’ve aged into their skin. You know what I mean? And I think they’re going to be awfully tough to beat. But what’s so interesting this year, I’m not sold on the Memphis, by the way. I’m just not sold. Sorry. I think they fall apart when the playoffs come. But when I look at Boston and Denver, maybe. be the lakers now that they got you know i mean i don’t i still don’t think the lakers will hold up but when i look at boston and denver i think the playoffs look interesting very interesting because each of the top two teams has a hell of a competitor nipping at their heels no they do it wasn’t to me andy for the for speaking of the nuggets directly
SPEAKER 05 :
that two or three seed, which is right where they slot in, right, depending on how they finish down the stretch here, the two or the three is right where they want to be, right? Because that would allow them to play, you know, they play obviously a much lower seed, get home court in the first round. And then if that two seed, which is potentially Memphis, if you’re either three or vice versa, I think that’s a very beatable team. I’m with you 100%. And then that saves OKC that forces them to have to get through a few different matchups in order to get to you. And yeah, I just think that OKC, here’s an interesting question for you. We don’t have a ton of time. At what point do they have too many assets? Because they can’t use all the picks that they’ve gotten. I mean, they’ve got literally the definition of embarrassment of riches. They do. Is the Oklahoma City Thunder. Because they’ve got like, for folks that don’t know, they’ve got like 20 first round picks over the next like six or seven drafts. I mean, there’s just not enough room on their roster, Andy. Look, I think…
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, obviously they package them and they get better picks. I think OKC is going to be a juggernaut for so long. And you almost look at them and just say, please don’t win it this year because you’re going to win it a lot of years coming up. And it’s going to be so hard. I just don’t know. I see OKC, they’ve arrived a year earlier than I thought, but they’re legit. They are legit.
SPEAKER 05 :
They’re very good. Again, the only thing I just don’t know with them is, is the playoffs as you know are a different mentality and their strength well their strength is their use and their depth right and in the playoffs you’ve seen time and time again when the benches get shortened right other players they got to step up and to me i just you know outside of sga i know they don’t get me wrong they have a really good team and a really good starting lineup i’m just not sure how that how that plays but i guess we’ll find out
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I think it’s going to be great. I think watching SGA in the playoffs, I can’t wait. I think it’s going to be exciting. And I think, honestly, I think Cleveland-Boston is even going to be more exciting. I think we’re looking at a war. Richard, thank you so much, sir.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you, sir. Have a great day.
SPEAKER 08 :
You take care. Okay, folks, that’s it for Hour 2 and Hour 3. We’re going to have the Monday Mortgage Minute with Kurt Rogers, and then Jersey Joe brings fun and facts. Until then, keep it right here on Rush to Reason, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m a rich guy
