Join John Rush and guests as they tackle Denver’s expanded housing affordability bill. The episode features an in-depth analysis of how government-imposed linkage fees are seen by some as an unconstitutional form of taxation disguised under the guise of zoning requirements. Listen in as they explore the lawsuit challenging these fees, discuss how they may set precedent, and emphasize the importance of legal advocacy for developers facing these financial burdens.
SPEAKER 11 :
This is Rush to Reason. You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes. With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 18 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job, sir. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 13 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 09 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush, presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, hour number two, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate, of course, Charlie Grimes, our engineer for today as well, and had a good first hour. Hopefully you guys enjoyed that. Keep in mind, I shouldn’t say this, or I should say this more often, if you miss any first hours, with the exception of Wednesday, you can go back and re-listen to that hour all over again between 6 and 7. So if you missed anything last hour, be sure to just tune back in. Had a good hour, by the way, and enjoyed that very much. All right, our next guest joining us now, David Dearson, joining us, Pacific Legal Foundation. David, welcome. How are you, by the way? I’m doing very well, thanks. How are you guys? Good. You’ve got something very close to home for us because we are in Aurora, which literally is right next door to Denver, and you’ve got a lawsuit going on with a Denver, you know, for, I should say, a Denver home builder because of a linkage fee ordinance that Denver now has. That’s exactly right. So talk about, number one, what is this Denver linkage fee?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, the idea behind the linkage fee, it’s sort of a form of a policy that’s pretty popular around the country that’s called inclusionary zoning. We think of it as extortionate zoning.
SPEAKER 03 :
I was just going to say thank you. That was a word I was looking for.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, that’s right. We think of it as extortionate zoning. The way it works is if you want to get a development permit to build housing… the city forces you to pay a fee to subsidize housing elsewhere. But there are actually very strict constitutional limitations on the kinds of development permit fees that governments can charge. And we think it’s pretty clear that these fees don’t meet those limitations.
SPEAKER 03 :
This is different from a lot of you listening to because this is something, David, that – A lot of folks maybe don’t know, but, you know, a lot of times developers will sit down at the table with a particular city and say, you know, we want to do this particular development and in turn we’ll give you land or even help you build a local fire station or we’ll help you put a park in or we’ll do these things. And it’s sort of ancillary and it’s sort of icing on the cake for the city. And in a way it is in a lot of ways a bribe. I hate to say it that way, but it’s literally a bribe to help get your project pushed through. That’s way different than what you’re talking about here, though, right?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, well, this is different because it’s mandatory and required on basically all residential development and even most commercial and industrial development as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the difference being instead of going down to the table and having some negotiation, this is something that right off the top, this is what the city is going to require you to do, period, or you’re not building, period. It’s that simple, right? Correct.
SPEAKER 07 :
They will not grant you a permit unless you satisfy their conditions, which means paying these exorbitant fees.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, David, first of all, just for the record, I oppose these fees entirely, and I don’t like the idea that if you’re going to go in and develop, which, by the way, creates jobs, okay?
SPEAKER 03 :
It does all sorts of things. All kinds of great jobs. It opens up somebody else’s home where they may have been living. We can go down the list, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s fantastic in so many ways for the economy, and yet that money is going to be put into affordable housing, which… largely becomes bad times. But really quick, David, how big are these fees? How is this calculated? Great question.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, they’re done by square footage, and the crazy thing is that they’re actually scheduled to go up every single year in July. So they’re projected to rise basically forever. In this case, our client, Red Tea Homes… is building two different projects. They’re building one project consisting of four single-family homes on which they’re paying a fee of $25,000, and another project of two duplexes on which they have to pay $45,000.
SPEAKER 08 :
Whoa, wait a minute. Only four houses? How many houses, and it’s $25,000 total for the fee?
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s right. On one of them. On the other, it’s four houses, and they’re paying $45,000.
SPEAKER 08 :
For just that little, I thought you were talking about like for a large development. No, no, just a regular house. So just for a few houses, for just a few houses, they’re giving up $25,000? Right. That’s insane.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. And I want to make sure that I highlighted and we didn’t miss all of this. What you’ve just said is these fees will reset every July, right?
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s right. And it continued to go up.
SPEAKER 03 :
Unreal. Unreal. OK, so I’m assuming and again, I try to catch as many things, David, as we can locally. But there’s so many different cities in the Front Range area here that I just honestly cannot keep up with all of the different changes that that come. I’m guessing this is something that was probably passed by council. Mayor signs off on it. And here we are.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, the policy has been around for a while, for about 10 years, but recently they passed what they call the Expanded Housing Affordability Bill, which beefs it up even more.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. So essentially they’ve raised the stakes, let’s say it that way.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s right, and they’ve expanded the kinds of projects that it applies to.
SPEAKER 03 :
Got it. Okay, so where do we stand with the lawsuit, these sorts of things? Again, and why this is such a big deal and why you guys get involved in these things, I assume, is because these set precedents. They can set precedents not only here in Colorado but in other states across the country as well because, to your point, when something is unconstitutional and you can prove it, it sets a precedent for a lot of other cities and towns and things that happen in other places. In other words, saying, hey, guys, don’t do that because it’s going to get shot down.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s exactly right. And we’re in federal court. And, you know, we may end up at the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals. And I don’t know if it’ll be this case, but I think one of these cases is ripe for a Supreme Court review because, like I said at the top, these policies are very popular.
SPEAKER 08 :
uh and the case against them from a constitutional perspective is very strong what is the case against them because i mean it would seem to me that local control they these are ludicrous ideas but a lot of people locally put through ludicrous ideas and they can simply say to you hey that’s the price to do in business here you don’t want to do that go somewhere else that’s right it’s not just that uh they’re ludicrous ideas and bad policies the issue is that um
SPEAKER 07 :
when you’re requiring people as a condition of getting a development permit, when you require them to give up property interests or to give up money, there is a special test that courts employ to make sure that you’re not basically making an end around to get around the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment, right? Government can’t take property without compensating you. But that would be meaningless if they could force you to give up property in exchange for a permit that you need. There’s a real power imbalance there at the permitting desk. So the rule is, if they’re going to demand money or property from you as a condition of granting a permit application, the demand that they make has to be designed to mitigate for some real impact that your development is going to cause. And you guys said it exactly right at the top. Building… Building new residential development does not have a negative impact on affordability. It makes affordability better by increasing supply. I mean, that’s very basic economics.
SPEAKER 08 :
But just using it to raise money for their other pet projects, I don’t see how that fulfills that.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, exactly. They’re not really mitigating for any actual impact of the development. They’re just trying to raise money in a way that’s more politically palatable than raising taxes.
SPEAKER 08 :
So they can buy votes elsewhere.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah, and at the end of the day, this is the way I look at it, and Andy’s hitting the nail on the head, and so are you, David. this is just a tax to either pacify one section of your constituents, I guess you could say, help out politically, whatever the case may be. But at the end of the day, these are just taxes.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, that’s right. And it’s hard to raise taxes because people won’t vote for it. But if you can shift the burden onto the folks who need the development permit, they don’t have much of a choice unless they can find a good lawyer like we have over at the Pacific Legal Foundation. They’re usually out of luck. That’s why we want to prove that these policies are unconstitutional.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, answer me a question along these lines where you guys are going down this path with these particular costs. Does this also dovetail into what a lot of cities and counties are doing now, municipal organizations, when it comes to water taps and things along those lines? Some of these are getting so exorbitant that they’re basically – eliminating almost the ability for people to build things because they’re raising those tap fees up so much, and in a lot of cases there’s kickbacks in those going to some of the things that you’re mentioning. So my question is, does winning this have any effect upon those sorts of things as well?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, it’s all related. I mean, it gets a little bit tricky when the government can characterize the fee as a user fee for a service. Right. But really, any time that the government is making you pay a fee or, you know, we have cases where they’re forcing people to, at their own expense, extend the water mains well past what their own projects would need.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Thank you. Thank you. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s all related. Okay. Thank you. Because to me, this is where I feel a lot of municipalities, cities, counties start wielding their power in ways that, frankly, I don’t think they should have the power to do. They are, in a lot of ways, and David, I think this is where I come into this and how I look at it is, They’re basically taking away your ability to develop out your own property, therefore diminishing the value and taking away your own personal property rights. And to me, that’s the crux of a lot of this.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s right. And another way to look at it is that they’re basically forcing you to give up your constitutional right to just compensation for a taking. That’s right.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. Good way of saying it. Well, keep us abreast of what goes on. This is, again, right next door. I mean, what goes on in Denver happens in a lot of the other suburbs that we have around Denver as well, David. So whatever happens here, believe me, other cities will be looking at this and determining, is this something we’re going to go after as well? So this outcome will have a big effect upon us in Colorado and, of course, other places around the country. So, yeah, by all means, keep us informed. If there’s something you want to let our listeners know or there’s things that you want to keep us abreast of. And I should also mention, please tell us how we can help you guys. This is something that you guys are doing to help this particular developer out. How do we help you help them?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, you know, get the word out. We’re looking to challenge these policies, not just in Denver and not just in Colorado, but really all over the nation. So folks can go to PacificLegal.org to learn a little bit more about us and the work we do. And I’d love to hear about, you know, more of these cases, more developers who are finding that, you know, It’s impossible for them to do what they need to do and build and actually help build this country out because the government’s trying to do something backwards. It’s trying to make housing more affordable by making it more costly.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s just not going to work. It isn’t. I also mentioned this. Go to the website, pacificlegal.org. In the top right-hand corner is a Donate button. Click it. Help these guys out because a lot of what you guys do is literally through those. The majority of what you do is through those donations. So by all means, folks, go and donate. We don’t charge our clients a dime. We’re entirely donor-funded. There you go. So go and donate is my point. David, I appreciate you joining us today. Thank you very much. Thanks very much. You’re very welcome. Have a great rest of your day. Guys, this is something that, as you guys can tell, near and dear to me. I watch so many different developments and different things that start to happen. And, you know, this whole affordable housing, utter nonsense. And it is absolutely utter nonsense. The best way to make a housing affordable, Andy, is build more of. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
But think about this for a moment. He’s only building two small places, a few homes in each, right? And the city is getting $70,000 from those two combined. What for? So that they can build affordable housing, which, as you know, is stacked and packed with tons of voters who are going to vote for them. They’re buying people’s votes with his $70,000.
SPEAKER 03 :
Great point, Andy. Another great way to look at it. Absolutely. All right. Veteran Windows and Doors coming up next. 35% off up to three windows. Four or more, 40% off. Free labor. Call Dave today. Find him at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 17 :
putting reason into your afternoon drive this is John Rush
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, let me handle a few text messages that have come in while we were talking to our last guest. And, yes, those are fees from our last guest, not taxes. I call them a tax, which is really what they are, but fees, yes, those are fees. And then somebody asked, do we have engineers on site when we get into some of these bad weather days where lightning can be hitting and so on? Do we have people out at our towers and stuff to handle all of those things? No is the answer. We have all of that now because of technology. It’s automated. AI has it. It has a big play in that in regards to how close are lightning strikes? Do we need to power down? All those different sorts of things can happen really instantaneously. If something were to happen, yes, we would have somebody out and be back on air rather quickly. But no, in most cases, that’s all automated. Yeah, we get messages from the powers that be, if you would, as to what’s going on and so on and monitor that very closely. Somebody also asked, with all the things that happen in Aurora, do we ever get worried, Andy and I, when we come and go and so on? And all I said back was, no, I’m never worried about coming and going to the building and all of that. Honestly, I worry more down here, and I’ll say this straight up. We absolutely, in this particular area that we are as a station, have the worst absolute drivers on the entire planet in about a two-mile radius of these towers, and I am not exaggerating. The majority of people, even in this parking lot, cannot drive.
SPEAKER 08 :
Somebody somewhere with a satellite is putting out a dumb beam.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, my word. They are the dumbest drivers on the planet, and I’m not exaggerating. Yeah. They are so bad. And these particular buildings were in the Twin Towers that we’re in. I will just tell you straight up, most of the people, when they pull in and out, don’t even know what they’re doing as far as that goes. It’s amazing most of them come and go out of this building.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, yeah. I was just pulling in two weeks ago. I was pulling in just for the show, right? And this lady almost drove right at me. I had the right of way, John.
SPEAKER 05 :
I know, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
And she’s coming out of the parking lot and, you know, the entrance off Parker. And I’m coming and she’s driving right at me. I know.
SPEAKER 03 :
Andy, I’m telling you, I’m more fearful of that than anything else down here. I almost had to go up on the lawn. You’re proving my point. It’s not coming and going and worrying about some knucklehead. It’s that that I worry about. Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 08 :
All I can think about is, and they vote. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER 1 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s just like, oh, my gosh. It explains a lot.
SPEAKER 03 :
Somebody also mentioned, you know, Christy Noem. And Andy did get a follow-up here a moment ago. He was looking while I was talking to our last guest, David. And Christy had an allergic reaction to something. She is doing fine right now. Looks like it was the reason why she ended up going to the hospital.
SPEAKER 08 :
At least that’s the initial report.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that’s, again, we’re not there. This is just things that we’re hearing. We’re not journalists. We don’t get some sort of a feed into the station that tells us these things. We just do our own looking.
SPEAKER 08 :
Can I ask you a question, John? Yes. When’s the last time you’ve seen a cabinet that was this healthy overall? I mean, look at Christy. Not just because she’s pretty. I mean, but she is ripped, okay? Christy Noem is very healthy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, they’re very healthy. All of them.
SPEAKER 08 :
I mean, what about RFK? That’s ridiculous. I mean, he’d come in here and bench both me and you. But so many… Trump has even lost some weight. His wife… is in spectacular condition. Of course, she’s been a model. But, I mean, you look at it, J.D. Vance is not in that bad of shape. Marco Rubio, he’s actually in very good shape. You look at so much of his cabinet, they are in incredible physical condition overall as a cabinet coach.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, can’t argue that at all, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
Kash Patel.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, these are… Dan Bongino. Top-notch individuals and, I mean, does that mean they’re perfect? No, folks, they’re not perfect. And do I agree with every single thing each cabinet person says? Of course not. I’ve made that very clear. You know, there’s very, very few people. In fact, let me go as far as to say this. There’s nobody on this earth that I agree with 100% of the time. Doesn’t exist. Now, my Heavenly Father, that’s a different situation, and we have a different relationship than we have with humans, of course. But when it comes to other humans, do I always agree with everything they do and say 100% of the time? Of course not, because if you did, somebody’s lying. Right. One or the other, Andy, is lying if you say you agree 100% of the time.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, totally. By the way, I’m sorry, I’m thinking of a couple more. Scott Besson, he’s in good shape. How about Tulsi Gabbard?
SPEAKER 03 :
Same thing. She’s ripped. I mean, my gosh, what a healthy group he’s got. Same thing. But, Andy, I think really quick, before we go to break, we’ve got this misconception on our side of the aisle, especially with a lot of folks here in Colorado, that you have to agree with someone 1,000% of the time or you can’t support them. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Otherwise, they are my enemy. The 80-20 rule of Reagan has been completely thrown out. And unfortunately, it’s been largely done by MAGA. And I hate to say that because you and I are MAGA.
SPEAKER 03 :
Why is that, Andy? Let’s do this. Why is that? Think about that. Let’s come back and talk about that, okay? Okay. You bet. We’ll do that here in a moment. Dr. Scott Faulkner coming up next, and he’s an awesome doctor. Andy said that earlier. Really, he is. He’s one of the smartest guys you’ll meet in the medical end of things. And I think the biggest reason why, by the way, I can say that is he was smart enough during COVID to realize that, wait a minute, these guys aren’t letting me treat patients like I should be. I can’t handle the COVID patients the way that they should be handled because big pharma and big insurance and big medical is telling me I can’t do this. In fact, they’re going to fire me over doing it, so I’ll go do something on my own. That tells you, honestly, Andy, how smart he is because he wasn’t willing to be subjected to that long term and went out and did something on his own. The best way to do it.
SPEAKER 08 :
And, oh, gee, by the way, he was right. Yeah. Thank you, Andy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. He was right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Those are three words I really want to hear about somebody who handles my health.
SPEAKER 03 :
He was right. Yeah. There you go. I’ll leave it at that. Dr. Scott, 303-663-6990.
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SPEAKER 19 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
Now, back to Rush to Reason. And we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. And I’m going to couch MAGA with quotes because I get it. There’s a lot of people that are involved in the movement and enjoy what we’re doing right now as a country and so on. You know, I being one of them. And I don’t consider myself to be in this particular camp in this regard. But the question I asked Andy before going to break, I’m kind of rephrasing it, but why is MAGA all or nothing? It’s either you’re all the way in or I’m throwing you out.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. Two reasons. Number one, it is geared around a single personality. Whenever you have one group that is largely organized around one personality, even a great personality who I happen to love named Donald Trump, That becomes a very irrational group. You should never have a group that is aligned around a single personality. OK, I really like America first rather than Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. You see what I’m saying? But here’s the other thing. And I don’t blame it on MAGA at all. I actually blame it on what we would call the moderates, the establishment, the. You know what I mean? The traditional Republicans, their failures. Because we had for so many years, John, we had Republicans who we elected into office. And at times when they were even in districts, John, where they were winning their elections, you know, 60 to 40, winning their elections comfortably, they would then go to Washington or maybe even here in Colorado, go down to the state capitol and be very compromising in how they voted. They would say, look at it. We waited how long for Donald Trump to come along and finally seal our border? How many Republicans over the last 30 years have said they would do it and never did? Think about that for a moment. OK, and now after being let down over and over and over, what about the budget? OK, well, I think that Rand Paul right now is not taking into consideration how some congressmen would lose with certain budgetary decisions on the big, beautiful bill. The simple fact is he’s totally right on something. Look at our budget. We’ve destroyed America’s future. Because Republicans who we voted for would never draw the line. And so what I think is this, John, I believe that a large portion of the base has spent decades being let down over and over and over and over and over by the people we put into office and they’ve had enough. And now they’ve gone too far the other way and saying, basically, anybody who doesn’t agree 100% with me is a rhino. Everybody who doesn’t agree 100% with me is… is a compromiser. Everybody who doesn’t agree 100% with me hates Trump. I think that’s what they’re doing because they’ve been let down so much that they see it everywhere now. What do you think?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I can’t. Disagree. That is sort of like, you know, you and I have talked about how when something comes up and it may be AI driven, it may just be a conspiracy, whatever the case.
SPEAKER 01 :
They jump right on it.
SPEAKER 03 :
But yeah, they jump right on because they want to believe, oh, I got that has to be true. I mean, in my heart, I know that’s true. No proof to back up whether it is or isn’t. But man alive, it just sounds like it is. So I’m going to jump on board. Well, problem is that gets us in trouble because it may very well not be true.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, and one thing that really fed into that as well, John, the fact that so many of them came true. Okay, Russian collusion being a total hoax came true. I get it. Spygate came true.
SPEAKER 03 :
All the COVID stuff. Yeah. We were talking about Dr. Scott a few minutes ago. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 08 :
All the COVID lies were exposed as actual COVID lies. I get that. The lab leak came true. OK. And so because the left has hidden so many things and so many of those things have now come to pass. Now they think everything that comes out that they agree with is true.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I agree with that. And there’s some precedence, I guess you could say, that’s been set. The problem with that is you really have to be careful because you still have to vet every single thing that you see come along to make sure that you don’t get caught up in the trap of it not being true.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, yeah, exactly. But really quick here, John, with either Russian collusion or with COVID. Okay. In both of those cases, folks, we have to keep in mind, we had a ton of information showing us at the time that these were probably… That our point of view is probably going to come true. That our quote-unquote conspiracy theories were probably going to become facts, okay? But we had a lot of information early on. Nowadays, any AI thing put out, they simply jump on.
SPEAKER 03 :
And really quick too, Andy, along, especially the lines of COVID, but we had some of the Russian collusion as well. Right. Right. But on the covid side of things, keep in mind, folks, Kelly Victory, Dr. Kelly, who’s here with us on Thursday’s first hour and has been almost all the way through a few shows we missed here and there with her schedule. But for the most part, has been pretty much here every single Thursday. Yeah. We had other experts, quote unquote. In that case, in the medical community, backing up a lot of the things that we were talking about that went against what government and the left was telling us to do. Social distancing worked. The mask. I mean, what a farce they were. The shots themselves. I mean, all of this nonsense. The cleaning. That destroyed a nation. Destroyed businesses and everything. The economy. It ruined the economy. It ruined the nation, basically. We have inflation today, like none other, because of all of that that happened.
SPEAKER 08 :
And kids have never caught up on their education.
SPEAKER 03 :
Correct. I mean, think of the— Closing schools down, all the different things we talked about.
SPEAKER 08 :
All on junk science.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. All on garbage. Now, while all that turned out to be true and we were right, you guys, all of you listening, I hope you know that I especially, and Andy’s the same way because we’ll share information back and forth even the days Andy’s not here, but I’ll tell you straight up, there’s all sorts of things that even today are still coming out about whatever. Right. And I’m very careful to not just jump on something and say, gosh, yeah, that looks pretty real. Let’s get on that. No, we will go back and forth. And I’ll even bring Charlie in at times and say, you know, what do you think about this? Do you think this is true? Do you think this might be possible? You know, what are the sources for this and so on? And there’s very, very, very few times we’re wrong because of doing that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Because we’re careful. Look, even Kristi Noem. What are we saying? The initial reports are that it was an allergic reaction. Do we know for certain? No, we don’t. You know, we don’t know for certain.
SPEAKER 03 :
No. And I can go down the list of things that kind of come our way. Well, I’ll give you a great example, and I just spelled this last week. Andy was with me, and I did this even without Andy, but everybody was talking about how Sunday would be martial law. Not everybody, but there were a lot of people, YouTube and influencers, and so on, talking about because of the No Kings Day on Saturday that by Sunday there would be martial law. And some of you are even texting me some of these videos and people and things, people out there in different websites and places where this was being said. And I soundly said, no, folks, it’s not going to happen. You’re going to wake up Sunday morning just like any other fathers that you’ve ever woke up to, I mean, maybe different in your world, but as far as the day goes, you’re going to wake up, have Father’s Day, do what you would normally do, and you’ll never know anything happened the day before. And guess what happened? What I just said. There was no martial law.
SPEAKER 08 :
And, you know, one reason that we knew that, John, is because we could look around in a country and say, you know what? Americans are simply tired of protests. Okay, and either right or left.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, Americans, a lot of Americans are tired even of MAGA protests, pro-MAGA protests, which, by the way, don’t even get violent. They’re totally safe. I agree with everything said at them. I actually think they’re really cool. But I understand that outside of our base, most Americans look at that and say, you know, we’re weary of it. But they’re very weary of the violent sort that happened on the left. They’re really weary. Which, by the way, even this last weekend didn’t have that many of those either. No, there weren’t that many. And I think a large percentage of them were paid. That’s right. Yeah. And so this idea that you would need martial law, you’re only going to need martial law, John. Here’s what I was getting at.
SPEAKER 03 :
Everything collapses, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. That’s what I was getting to. The only way you would need martial law is if they succeeded, is if they really got large percentages of America to buy in on this and you knew they wouldn’t.
SPEAKER 03 :
And when we say large percentages, folks, you’d have to have a 75% participation in people wanting to do those things. Folks, I’m not exaggerating when I say this. You had less than 1% participation in everything that went on this last weekend. You’d have to have that number be all the way up into the 70-80% range to have martial law.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I think… I think if half the country were literally in the streets.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’d have to have a really large number of adults participating in something along those lines to have that happen. 1% is not going to do it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. And we can look at what happened on No King’s Day. Yeah, and you can see, oh, it looks like there’s a mob. Well, yeah, there’s a mob. If you take 1%. Well, that’s still enough people. You pack that into any intersection, you got them up.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, 1% is 3.5 million people, folks. Yeah. Of the country. That’s still a lot of people. Don’t get me wrong. Yeah, it’s still a lot of people. But it’s only 1% of the 350 million, roughly. It’s like 360, but you get the drift. I mean, really, at the end of the day, it’s not a high percentage. And yes, there are even some small towns where there might have been 100 people gathering. And for that town, it might look like a lot. But even then, let’s say the town has 10,000 people in it and there’s 100 people.
SPEAKER 08 :
people out it’s one percent you know the bottom line here john is that what those people really were they were advocating for more republicans Because people watch that and they just hate them.
SPEAKER 03 :
I know.
SPEAKER 08 :
They look at that. All they were doing was advertising for us.
SPEAKER 03 :
It was wonderful. I’ll go as far as to even say this.
SPEAKER 08 :
Because when you see the other side and there are a bunch of kooks like that, come on.
SPEAKER 03 :
And Andy knows this, and he’s the same way. I’ll defend anybody’s right to protest peacefully. Have your First Amendment rights, all that. I will protect that. I’ll go to the grave doing that. I have no problem doing that. Now, with all that being said… And this is a very serious question I’m going to throw to Andy. I’ll even throw it to you all that are listening. Has a single protest ever changed anything?
SPEAKER 08 :
I believe that the anti-Vietnam protests had a real impact.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And that was 50 years ago.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Outside of that, have you ever seen another protest really change anything?
SPEAKER 08 :
Only in reverse. The BLM Antifa protests helped the other side.
SPEAKER 03 :
Great point. Yes, you’re 100% correct on that, and that’s why they finally disbanded them. So those made a real change. That made a change for our side, not the other side.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so… Successfully? Let me rephrase this. I’m not sure. Have they, those protests, ever successfully made the change they were protesting about?
SPEAKER 08 :
Not really. I mean, how about looking at some on our side really quick, and then we’ll go to break.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’re fine. We have time.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, what about protesters outside of abortion clinics?
SPEAKER 03 :
That doesn’t change the thing, Andy. I’m sorry to say. I don’t think so either. That doesn’t change anything.
SPEAKER 08 :
I think the big changes don’t come from them. In fact, I think they kind of repulse people. People don’t like that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Having a pregnancy-carrying center van or bus or something nearby has a lot more effect on that than protesting does.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, that actually has an impact.
SPEAKER 03 :
Huge impact.
SPEAKER 08 :
I think, let’s just take a step back. The average person, you and I are incredibly politically involved.
SPEAKER 03 :
Engaged, yes. Okay, we’re engaged. Very much so. All the time. Yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, now look at the other 80%. Well, okay, no, no. I’ll say there’s probably about 40%, 50% of Americans… who are pretty much in the murky middle. I’ll even go so far as to say 60% or 70% of Americans are simply uncomfortable with seeing protesters, period.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think you’re right on that. And they don’t want to see it. I would agree with you on that, on either side.
SPEAKER 08 :
Because you know why? They’re all saying, you know what? I can see this. If I want to do this, I can see this on Facebook. I can see this on TV. I can see this wherever. I don’t need you on that street corner. You’re in my way.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’re annoying me. And some are going to get mad at me for this, but I don’t care. I’m going to say it anyways. This is where I feel our side. needs to be extremely careful in what type of protests we go and do at times. Because at the end of the day, I’m not sure they have any, any, other than the people that are attending, I’m not sure they have any positive effect when it’s all said and done.
SPEAKER 08 :
None.
SPEAKER 03 :
For example.
SPEAKER 08 :
How many times have we gone down to the Capitol here as the Republican Party in Colorado? How many things have we affected?
SPEAKER 03 :
None.
SPEAKER 08 :
None.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sorry, Andy, none. We would be better on, and folks, I’m being very honest and sincere when I say this. We’ll be much better off. for all of the time and energy and resources and gas money for people going down and parking and the sign making and so on, you would be better off taking all of that money collectively and putting it towards a candidate that we know is right on the edge of winning or losing and helping that person win and then sending them down to the state house. We would be better doing that than having the protest.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, we spend all this money on something that does nothing and here we have an underfunded candidate.
SPEAKER 03 :
Folks, and I know that some of you are going to clap. You’re happy with what I just said. Others are probably shaking the fist at the radio saying, you know, you’re dirty, rotten scoundrel. You know, you’re taking my protest away and my rights away. No, I’m not. You still have that ability to do so. What I’m saying, though, is effectively speaking. When we, as conservatives, try to speak our voice and so on, and yes, our voices always need to be heard, but folks, there’s all sorts of ways to make that happen, and you don’t have to go to the Capitol steps to do that. And I’ll tell you this as well. In Colorado right now, with the not super majority, but it’s darn near close to what’s going on at our Golden Dome as far as how many Democrats are down there versus Republicans, you going to the steps does absolutely nothing. Zilch. Zero. Nada. I’m sorry to say, we’re better off trying to figure out how do we tip the scales more into our favor than going down and whining on the steps of the Capitol. I’m sorry, because what I just said is how the other side looks. They look at it as, we’re just whining on the steps of the Capitol.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, and if you don’t believe what John Rush just said, think for a moment about all those protests that just happened over the weekend, and think about all the people in the middle who saw that, and think if those people were swayed, Or put off.
SPEAKER 03 :
Put off.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. We’ll come back. We’ve got Golden Eagle Financial in a nice interview that Al just did, followed up by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning. That’ll be right after that. And I want to make sure I tell you guys, when it comes to Cub Creek, be patient if you call in to Hunter. Because, yes, these hot days, it’s going to be very busy for him for a little bit of time here. So just be patient with Cub Creek. You can find both Golden Eagle and Cub Creek at klzradio.com.
SPEAKER 04 :
We’ve got Al Smith from Golden Eagle Financial with us in the studio here at KLZ. And Al, I know you’ve been helping people plan for and transitioning through retirement for many, many years, but there are a lot of financial advisors out there. What makes you different?
SPEAKER 15 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
That is really outstanding. How can people learn more about how you help other folks move through the retirement process and plan for it?
SPEAKER 15 :
Well, they can reach me at my office, which is 303-744-1128. And if you choose to come into the office, I will be sure and make one or both of those books that I’ve written available to you. They’re 18 Holes to Retirement and also The Christian Path to Retirement. The books are very short, but they summarize the important steps of I guide my clients through whether they have 20 years till retirement or if they’ve been retired for 10 years.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s great.
SPEAKER 15 :
And how can people reach you, Al? 303-744-1128 is my office number. If I’m not there, either my office manager will pick it up or it’ll go to voicemail. I return my voicemails very promptly and we can arrange a time to sit down and see how what I do can be of help to you.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
Listen online. klzradio.com. Back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, I’ve got a few minutes left. I think I can explain myself a little bit further even when it comes to some of what we’ve been talking about in regards to… What the other side does, fine, whatever. Okay, more power to them. I’m talking about our side, and there’s a reason why I personally have never been to any of these types of events. You’re never going to see me at a march. You’re not going to see me at a protest. You’re not going to see me on the steps of the Capitol. A, I have better things to do with my time, and I mean that sincerely. Not that… Doing those things isn’t important to our point earlier, Andy, but I personally have other things to do that are much more pressing and important and bring much more value to all of what we’re doing, including the political ramifications in the state of Colorado that I’m not going to be there. Number two. I’m not going to put myself at that kind of risk. A lot of you maybe didn’t see this, but there was a Project Runway guy, designer. He’s out of Hawaii, fairly famous. Somehow ended up at the protest in Salt Lake City. There was a shooting, not at him, not directed at him, but he was involved in a shooting, got shot in the stomach, died. And first thought I have is, why are you there? And I’m sorry, and I’m not trying to be rude to somebody that passed away, but I just have to ask the question, why are you there? I mean, personally? Maybe he was just trying to get through there. No, he was at the protest for a reason. He was participating. And then I have to ask the question, why? You being that stature and so on, why are you there? And again, everybody has a right to do whatever. I’ve said it before, I’ll keep saying it, I will protect everybody’s right to assemble and do the things they want to do, but there’s times in my own mind
SPEAKER 08 :
where i’m questioning why what are we going to accomplish you guys all know me rush to reason what is the reason we’re doing this and what are we going to accomplish out of it okay here’s what i want to do i want everybody out there you are listening right now i want you to think about one question you have seen many protests right and left okay name one that changed your mind
SPEAKER 03 :
I can’t tell you any. None have in my case. Right. None. If anything, some have turned me off of that particular item. Right. Not on our side of the aisle so much as the other side. But even on our – I’ll be straight up honest. There’s sometimes on our side where I’m just like, you know, sorry, guys, but you’re acting like a bunch of wackadoodles. You’re on your own. I’m not getting anywhere near any of you with what you’re doing right now because you’re acting like a bunch of weirdos.
SPEAKER 08 :
Here in Colorado, it’s even worse because the Republican Party has basically just become a protest party.
SPEAKER 03 :
Which we can’t do and win, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
No. And there are people who, the Davidians, again, you know, we haven’t mentioned them in a while, but they want the Republican Party in Colorado to simply be a protest party.
SPEAKER 03 :
You can’t do that.
SPEAKER 08 :
All we do is protest the 2020 steal. We protest, you know, whatever, right? Protest, protest, protest. And, you know, guys, at some point, you have to start winning voters back.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Well, you’ve got to start winning, number one.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, but are you equipping your people throughout the party in Colorado? Are you equipping your people to go out and convert their neighbors to want to believe, to share our beliefs out of you? Okay? Are you having your people, your Republicans, going out through the state, converting more people to want school choice? To want, I don’t know, how about more lanes instead of more bike lanes? Even little things like that, you know what I mean? To actually want free markets. To not want what we were talking about earlier in this hour… the city of Denver charging $70,000 for somebody to build a few houses so they could take that money and go buy votes on cheap housing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Again, a few minutes left. Joe, go ahead, sir.
SPEAKER 10 :
The latest protest outrage on the East Coast is a guy named Brad Lander, who’s one of the candidates running for the mayor of New York in that election, went to a courthouse where there was an illegal immigrant having a hearing And as he came out, this guy, he’s the controller of the city of New York. He’s the bookkeeper for the city of New York. He linked arms with this illegal immigrant as he was preventing ICE agents who were there to arrest him from handcuffing him and taking him into custody. So he got arrested for obstruction of justice. Well, that’s the big – that is the lead story on every New York City news station. If you go to any of the websites, Axios, Being Liberal – It is the lead story on all of those Facebook sites. That’s the latest outrage, that how dare ICE arrest and elected it. Now, yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
Joe, that’s going to help him in that race.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, that’s exactly why he did it. He had a camera. He had people there videotaping. He went there hoping to be arrested.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 10 :
Because he was number four in the polls. He was trailing badly. He was a distant fourth. And he needed to get some name recognition. And he wanted to, you know, bring an issue about, you know, ICE are thugs and illegal immigration issues. And he got exactly what he hoped to get. He got manhandled and arrested by the ICE agents. But that’s the biggest – that’s today’s outrage on the East Coast. And if you go on – Axios is supposed to be fairly politically neutral. If you go on Axios, you’ll see like 700 comments.
SPEAKER 03 :
So I’m going to ask you the same question I’ve been asking Andy, only I’m going to couch it a little bit differently with you, Joe. Given, because I think Andy was right, the last time I think protests really had any kind of positive effect was Vietnam War and some things that happened there and so on. But since then, I will be one to tell you that I don’t think any of them have had any have made an ounce of difference. If anything, it’s helped the other side progress, not your side. And with today, Joe, our advent of communications, radio, TV, social media, you know, all the different ways that we now have to communicate and get the word out and so on. Our protests in today, you know, and I’m all for first amendment rights and the second amendment keeps the first amendment. We know that, Joe. But at the end of the day, do real literal in-person protests matter anymore?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, John, they must have because I woke up Sunday morning and we didn’t have a king, so they must have met.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, that’s true. Good point. Let me put this. We’ve got just a minute left here. Go ahead. What about the Tea Party when it first came on the scene? I thought that was very effective, and that was a protest movement.
SPEAKER 03 :
But it was done differently. It wasn’t necessarily – I mean, there were rallies and things like that, but they were more rallies than they were protests on the steps of the Capitol, correct? Correct.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yes. If anything, the protests I see help convince me that my beliefs are correct and that these people are a minority of wackadoodles, that we need to do everything we can to continue to persevere and push what we believe to be correct. And that we need to, if anything, increase our resistance and resolve.
SPEAKER 03 :
I would agree with that.
SPEAKER 10 :
Increase our resolve. That’s what it does to me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
A few thousand wackadoodles aren’t going to change my mind.
SPEAKER 03 :
Perfect, Joe. Thank you.
SPEAKER 10 :
Other than the fact that they’re wackadoodles. Appreciate that.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, that’s good. I appreciate that. And I agree with what you said, Andy, too, and I appreciate you saying that the Tea Party was – keep in mind, though, and you said it right. It was a movement. Right. It wasn’t – it was sort of like back in the day with the Million Man March and Promise Keepers and all of that. They weren’t protests so much as they were a movement and a rally, which that I’m all for. That’s a totally different – that’s like a revival. I mean that’s like something that sweeps across the country. That’s totally different than protests.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, because you’re speaking for something, not against. Even though the Tea Party did speak out against.
SPEAKER 03 :
It really was, though, for the freedom that we want to have back in the country.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, and it was speaking against the government that was taking it.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s exactly right. So with that, we’ve got another full hour coming your way, guys. Text message. Hey, send us some things on what we were just talking about. I’d love to hear from you on your thoughts on that, because that was a deep subject that, by the way, hardly ever gets mentioned, because I don’t think most people have the gall to do so. And we did. We’ll be back. Hour number three is next. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 1 :
Rich guy, rich guy, rich guy
