SPEAKER 02 : 0:00

welcome to the good news with angie austin now with the good news here’s angie

SPEAKER 04 : 0:08

Hey there, it’s Angie Austin with The Good News joined by Patrick Kinnack today. And I’m really excited about this particular interview because I was sent a press release. And to be honest with you, I get those every day. And I hardly ever book an interview from a press release because I’ve been in news for 30 years. So I’ve got lots of people that I interview and lots of their friends. And usually I just kind of am kind of set up. I don’t even need a producer anymore. But This really caught my eye. Why? Because I’ve always been interested in mission trips. And my kids now, as you know, are older, you know, going to school and college and just, you know, really have been thinking about taking a mission trip. And this was interesting because the title was Life Changing Mission. And so I was like, wait a second. I know they’re life-changing, but why? But what I think is interesting, Patrick, is you’re talking about how to keep that life-changing feeling that you have during the mission trip after you return from the mission trip. Welcome to the program.

SPEAKER 01 : 1:06

Thanks for having me, Angie. I’m so glad to be with you.

SPEAKER 04 : 1:09

So you’ve done quite a few trips. You want to tell us a little about your background? By the way, I have family not far from Naperville, and I see that you used to live there. You had a church there, a Presbyterian church, which I’ve attended many of those in my day. So I’m kind of interested in your background. So tell us about you, Patrick.

SPEAKER 01 : 1:26

Oh, yeah, thanks. Yeah, so I’m a minister by training and temperament. And so after I finished up school, I was a pastor in Naperville, western suburbs of Chicago, for about 10 years. And during that time is when I got introduced to Surge, which is the organization I work for now. And Surge is a mission-sending agency. So primarily what we do is send missionaries overseas, and everything we do is holistically integrated. So reach, renew, and restore. We are preaching the gospel. We’re making disciples. We’re doing word and deed ministry integrated through everything we do. And, of course, as a missions agency, we also facilitate short-term trips. So that was the interest in coming up with the book. Before I worked at Surge, though, I guess I’ve probably been on about a dozen short-term trips. So I feel like I’ve seen the good, I’ve seen the bad, I’ve seen the ugly. So it’s a passion point for me in terms of calling and what I do for a job, but also in terms of the experiences that I’ve had, both the good and the bad, over the years.

SPEAKER 04 : 2:29

Okay, so before we get into life-changing mission devotions for your short-term trip, tell me a little bit more about Surge. What exactly do they do so we better understand that? And then we’ll get into the book.

SPEAKER 01 : 2:42

Yeah. So Surge does what a lot of other missions agencies do. We send folks from the U.S. overseas to plant churches in wherever we’re planting a church or spreading the gospel. We are always doing that in word and deed ministry, making sure that those things are integrated. So depending on the field and the context, there might be medical work or education work or holistic ministry that comes alongside of our evangelism and outreach efforts. But what’s really unique about Surge is we were started by a seminary professor out here in Philadelphia, and we were sending folks in the early days of the mission out onto the field, and they were burning out. And so we kind of pulled people off the field and said, well, what’s going on here? And the real explanation, you know, when we dug down and got to the root of it was, It isn’t that we didn’t believe the gospel. We just didn’t know how to live the gospel out for ourselves as believers, as missionaries. And so, you know, we were fighting and having conflicts and all the rest of that stuff. And so we really believe at Surge that the heartbeat, the motive, the message that continues to keep us on track is we need the gospel as believers just as much as people who haven’t yet met Jesus as their Savior. And so every day as we are living on mission, it is the power of the gospel that sustains us, that compels us, that encourages us, that you know, causes us to repent, you know, when we’re getting it wrong, when we’re following, you know, the wrong tracks for that. So we have 350 missionaries, pretty much, you know, all throughout the world. And, you know, again, the work is always holistic. It looks a little different. Everything from businesses for transformation, where we’re helping people be rescued out of the sex trade and human trafficking and, you providing them with a message of hope, but also a means to support their family, to coffee roasting, to art internships, to traditional medical and health and nutrition facilities, all right alongside the church planting and evangelism that we do.

SPEAKER 04 : 4:57

Well, definitely checking that out. Just looked Serge up on the Internet as well to find out more about them. But let’s now get into your book, Life Changing Mission. So devotions for your short-term trip, and you do these on the trip and after. Explain to us.

SPEAKER 01 : 5:15

Sure, yeah. So we wanted the resource really to be a one-stop shop. So you get the book, and we wanted everything that you would ever need for your trip. So we’ve got a few things to read before you go, to be thinking about, to be praying for. The heart of the book then is those 10 devotionals that you do while you’re actually on the trip. Each day we spend a little bit of time going through a passage in Acts. And when we’re looking at the passage, really what we’re trying to connect with is what was going on in the life of the believers in Acts. And how do those same dynamics work themselves out in our lives? So some scripture reading, some questions to answer. There’s also places as you go along the week, hey, here’s what I did today. Here’s how I saw God working in me and in my teammates today. All designed so that you can do it, you know, just in a nice, normal, quiet time, you know, sort of time frame. So that’s the guts of what you do while you’re on the trip. There’s also some travel log features in there. You know, who’s on the team? Where did you go? Who ate the craziest thing? You know, all of those sorts of things that you want to record, you know, be able to come back to and relive those memories later. And then when you finish the trip, and I think this is really the secret sauce to the book, we have three debrief exercises. And those are meant to be done, one, right after you finish the trip, one, a couple weeks later, and then one several months later. And the real goal of those is almost everyone who takes a short-term trip says, that was amazing. Like, I learned so much. I was coming really to give to the people that we were going to minister to, but I feel like I got so much more than I was ever able to give them. And so what we want to do is help people collect those and then turn those into the passion to live on mission in their daily lives. You don’t have to cross the world to proclaim the gospel. In fact, sometimes crossing the street to love that neighbor who can be difficult to love is a bigger challenge. And so we wanted to bring those lessons, the energy, the passion that comes out of mission strips into people’s everyday lives so they can continue to live on mission once they’ve returned.

SPEAKER 04 : 7:19

Now, you said you had 12 mission trips. Do you remember your first one or one that maybe didn’t meet your expectations where you thought something like this would help you or obviously something spurred you on to write this to help others get more out of their trips?

SPEAKER 01 : 7:34

Yeah, no. The first trip that I took, it was between my freshman and sophomore year in high school. It was a whole summer long. We were in Europe. We were doing evangelism. And I was just convinced – This trip was going to be the thing that changed my life. Like, no more struggling with these signature sins, and this is going to be the best Patrick who didn’t struggle, who didn’t doubt, who had everything nailed down, who was doing it just right. And you know what? It turned out just the opposite of that. One of our search missionaries likes to quip that going into missions or taking a short-term trip is like pouring Miracle-Gro on all of your sins. So they don’t disappear when you’re outside of your normal comfort zones, language and money and culture and food that you’re used to. All of a sudden, all of these things that you kind of know how to keep hidden below the surface start to pop out. And so the thing that was so revelatory to me about that trip was I was a much bigger sinner than I realized. And Jesus was a much bigger Savior than I realized. The way that he was able to work through fallen, broken, fallible, finite people to still accomplish his goals, to draw people to himself, to be sure that his life-giving message was proclaimed. It was amazing to me how he was able to work through that. And so that really started me on a lifelong trajectory of trying to understand people. How does this work? How does spiritual growth integrate with the things that we do, you know, on missions trips? So the goal of the book is really to say you don’t need to be perfect to be used by God. You don’t need to have all the answers. You don’t need to be in control. You don’t need to make these things happen. God is already present. He is already working in these people’s lives. We’re just coming along as the junior partners with open hands. And saying, geez, what do you want to do today? How can I follow you? How can I best learn from you? And as I’m learning from you, how can I pass that on to other people?

SPEAKER 04 : 9:40

One of the reasons I’m interested in taking a trip, and here I’ve got grown kids almost. I’ve got one just starting college, one a sophomore, and then I’ve got a junior in high school. So I’m really kind of mulling it over like I’m going to have so much time on my hands when – uh, in the next few years. And the, one of the reasons I want to do is of course my faith, you know, when you want to share it with others and, you know, help others have that joy and, you know, to know the savior, but then also the whole idea, people say it’s a life changing. Why do you think mission trips are life changing? Like what’s so special about them?

SPEAKER 01 : 10:18

Yeah, no, it’s, I was just thinking about that on the way into work today. It’s so interesting, just from the standpoint that God is always at work, but often I’m so busy in my day-to-day stuff, I just miss it. I don’t see it. And so when you go on one of those trips, again, everything that you’re used to kind of changes. The morning people tend to get paired up with the night owls in the room assignments, and The people who want to take everything but the kitchen sink inevitably need help with their luggage when those of us who pack late are like, I’m not carrying that. You shouldn’t have brought that at all. And so you’re out of your normal routine just being in a different culture where folks do things differently, where the language is different, where customs and food is different. All of that, in some sense, just makes us more open to the fact that we really are dependent on God. And that’s true in our everyday life, but we just see it so much more clearly when we step out of those comfort zones, when we engage in following Jesus into His mission and where He wants to go. And so it’s that combination of we’re in a new place with a new sense of receptivity, and then we really start to notice that Here are things that God is doing that we know that we could not have done. It did not happen because of our efforts, our goodness, or whatever. We know that the only way that happened was the power of the Holy Spirit working, and we see that. We connect with that immediacy. Now, Jesus is still doing that. The Holy Spirit is still doing that in my everyday life. I just tend to be so preoccupied and know what I’m doing and not listening and you know, kind of independent, you know, as I’m doing it, I just miss those things. So it’s the context, I think, of missions that does it. And it is the message that we’re bringing. How do we bring a life-giving message if we ourselves are not every day eating and drinking of that same message? And, you know, I tell you, when you’re out there and, you know, you’re kind of you know, away from all of the normal things that you know how to do to make life work. Prayers don’t become things, oh, yeah, I should pray because that’s what good Christians do. They’ve turned into, holy cow, what do we do now? Like, what’s going to happen? We have to pray. We have no idea what is going to happen, how that’s going to work out. And I think to some extent that just brings a huge smile to Jesus’s face. Like that’s the posture I think he would want on my normal Tuesday afternoons when I’m clearing out my inbox and going to meetings. And so it’s that sense of dependence, desperation, a real need, you know, for what we’re bringing to others. But that need is our own need as well. And so we just we see that and we experience that differently.

SPEAKER 04 : 13:13

I love that. What do you want people to take away from the book when they read it? Or actually, let’s do this first because I’d love to keep you for another segment. What are people, what’s the feedback that you’re getting on the book right now?

SPEAKER 01 : 13:26

So the book is the second in a series. So we’ve already done one that was called On Mission, same format, same debrief exercises, but all the passages were taken out of the Gospels, the life of Jesus. So this is the second one. The second one.

SPEAKER 04 : 13:39

All right, hold it there, Patrick, because I am going to keep you for the next segment. We’ll be right back with the good news, and we’ll keep talking about life-changing mission. We’ll be right back.

SPEAKER 03 : 13:52

Arc Thrift has the summer clothing and household items you need. With 5,000 new items on the floor every day in 35 locations across Colorado, Arc Thrift also needs your donations of houseware, small furniture, electronics, and kitchen items. Donate generously and check out their stores. They’re looking for small electronics like alarm clocks and radios and all types of home goods that could include lamps, side tables, blenders, food processors, and more. Clothing is always a need for families, and Arc Thrift knows how quickly kids grow out of their clothes every season. They have clothing for all ages and times of the year. For any large furniture, you can schedule an online pickup with Arc Thrift. And as long as there’s a large furniture pickup, you can give them up to 20 boxes or bags for free. Go to arcthrift.com to schedule your large furniture pickup and to find the nearest location to you. That’s arcthrift.com.

SPEAKER 04 : 14:50

Estes Park is locked in to the mighty 670 KLT. We’re talking about life changing mission. This is Angie Austin with the good news and joined by the author of life changing mission, Patrick Connect. All right. So I want to know what feedback you’re getting for, you know, people are doing these devotions before they take their mission trips during and then after. to get more out of the mission trip people say it’s life-changing then they come home they kind of forget that feeling they kind of forget what they learned during the trip they lose that magic per se that they feel that’s those sparkles that like fairy dust that sprinkles on a cupcake like all of a sudden there’s no icing on the cupcake but but you want to keep that right because the mission trip is life-changing so Patrick wrote this book so that people can really get the most out of their mission trips and So Life-Changing Mission, what kind of feedback are you getting right now, Patrick? You said it’s the second book?

SPEAKER 01 : 15:47

No, that’s the second in the series. So the first in the series on mission, second one is Life-Changing Mission. They’re formatted exactly the same. In the first one, we go through passages from the Gospels. In this current one, Life-Changing Mission, we go through passages in the book of Acts. So in terms of feedback, that’s one of the great things that we’ve been hearing is One of the points that I make early on is that even though the events of the book of Acts have ended, the story of the book of Acts has not ended. And we are part of that story. And so as people are reading through the book of Acts and seeing what was happening, you know, in the early church and how those same things still happen today on our missions trips, there’s a vibrancy that comes with really understanding, wow, this is what it looks like when God’s spirit does God’s work to call God’s people to himself. So there’s that scriptural connection. I think the other two things that we hear are, one, I did not realize that I was as needy and dependent and broken and sinful as the missions trip revealed me to be.

SPEAKER 04 : 16:54

But I love what you said. Your colleague said that a mission trip is like throwing Miracle-Gro on all your sins. I was like, whoa, that’s a powerful visual. Or like those heads at Christmas time, the chia heads, you know, the chia hat. It’s just like all of a sudden your head’s like a chia head and all your sins are springing out.

SPEAKER 01 : 17:13

That’s right. That’s right. And so the opportunity to see that, But it’s not just that you’re seeing your sin. You’re seeing the power of the gospel to meet you in that moment, to be transformative, to give you courage that ordinarily you wouldn’t have, you know, through your own. So it’s that opportunity to see our needs more deeply, but then to be met in the moment by the power of Christ as we’re doing those things. And then the final thing that we hear is the debriefs are really kind of the magic part. Because I think everyone, when you come home from a missions trip, you really do say, this is great. I want to live life differently. I have personal connections and relationships with this country or the mission team or the missionaries that we went to serve. I want to keep those up. I want to stay connected with my team. I want to continue, whatever those things would be. And so the debriefs give you some scaffolding to do that. How do I continue to live on mission? What are ways that I can continue to support and pray for the people that I met or be more engaged in helping my church be engaged in mission? So I’d say those are the three big things that we hear most of the time.

SPEAKER 04 : 18:23

Now, when you’re talking about the book of Acts and the daily devotional, so fittingly centered on a passage from Acts, can you talk about that and maybe walk us through the components of each daily devotional as well?

SPEAKER 01 : 18:38

Sure, yeah. They’re all designed to be done in, you know, about 20 or 30 minutes. There’s, you know, date, location, you know, what are you going to be doing today? And then there’s the article. And in this series, all of the articles were actually written by Surge missionaries. So I wrote the intro article and the supporting stuff, but all of the devotional articles were written by real-life missionaries with Surge serving on the field. And so you read through the passage, and that’s included right in the book, so you don’t even need your Bible or your phone. You can just read it right there. And then they’ll have short two, three pages of the devotional. And then there’s always the responding to God section, and we ask people to spend about half their time in there. And so those are kind of the inductive heart questions, like what’s going on inside of you, and how is that connecting to the passage? And Where are you feeling challenged today or at this point in the trip? And what do you need to see Jesus, you know, do as you’re doing that? And then there’s a little wrap-up at the end of the day, what I saw God do today. And it just creates some journaling space to say, hey, here’s what I was anticipating for the day. Here’s what Scripture said, you know, how I should orient myself towards it. Okay, what actually happened? What did I see? And sometimes those are the richest places because we run into those situations where it’s like, Well, we were supposed to go plaster a wall, and you know what? The plastering supplies didn’t show up. And so what were we going to do today? And so it’s in those places where things don’t really go as planned often that the biggest spiritual lessons emerge.

SPEAKER 04 : 20:08

I love that. Now, in terms of mission trips, you’re working for Surge. You obviously have to talk a lot about people taking these trips in addition to talking about your book, Life Changing Mission books. I know you’ve written more than one. And why do you recommend mission trips? Like if you had to give like a couple of minute elevator speech to us right now and tell us why people should take them, because, you know, there’s They’ve got to leave their lives behind. A lot of people don’t want to travel. Maybe they’re afraid of flying or going overseas. They want to do something for the Lord. Maybe they feel called to do this. But then there’s generally fundraising. They have to somehow raise the money, either take it out of their own bank account or get friends or people in the church to help them pay for it. a trip you know which isn’t always easy people like why am i paying for you to go to europe you know like i’d like to go to europe right right right yeah so yeah so tell us why we should go and why we should fundraise and what we tell people when we are trying to take a trip yeah well one of the things that i would say is um

SPEAKER 01 : 21:09

whatever investment that you’re going to make in terms of time, effort, raising money, you’re going to get that back a hundredfold. Uh, there are very few weeks of your life where you remember exactly what you did and where you were and what happened, but missions trips are those kinds of weeks. You will remember those things, you know, for, for the rest of your life here. And you’re going to celebrate those things for all of eternity once we’re in heaven. So, uh, For the amount of investment that you’re going to make, and not everyone is called or suited to be a long-term missionary, but you can experience and participate in some of the blessings of doing that just in a short trip. The other thing that I would say, and this is kind of my pastoral instincts, we’re not really trusting Jesus until we get to a place where we’re following him into places and situations where we know that we’re not in control and when we know that we are not adequate to the task at hand. And so much of American life is really predicated on don’t suffer, be comfortable, be in charge, have all the decisions, have all the options. So when you sign up for a missions trip, you’re voluntarily saying, I’m going to go to a place where I don’t know how it works. I’m not in charge. I can only do it with this team of people. That’s the only way to accomplish the things that we’re going to do. That is just such fertile ground for the Lord to work in our lives. There’s really nothing else like it. And sometimes you really do need to go in order to grow there. And it’s the things that you experience as you’re growing. That’s what we want to help you harvest and continue to plant and sow in your life once you return.

SPEAKER 04 : 22:51

I love that. And then how do you recommend people fundraise? Because I’m sure they’re like, oh, I’m sure the ministry, I’m sure, I’m sure Serge can help me go, or I’m helping this particular ministry. So they’ll want me to go and they’ll want to help me pay for the trip. But no, that’s, that’s, that’s not what they’re using. That’s not what the ministry is using their money for is to send you on a mission trip. They’re using the money to sow into this other country, this other church that they planted, et cetera.

SPEAKER 01 : 23:17

Yep. No, that’s, that’s exactly right. Um, The best way to think about fundraising, I think, is you’re not really asking people for money. You’re asking people to pray about how God wants them to use the money he’s entrusted to them. And Jesus doesn’t need our money. He could fund every missions trip without support raising or anyone else giving to the cause. And the reason why we follow that New Testament model of supporting other people going to do that work is it’s a joy to give. You might be someone who just physically can’t go do one of these trips. You can pray for people who do it. You can give to people who do it. You might be someone who’s just been blessed with abundance, you know, of means. And to help that person have that week-long experience that’s going to do real-world, you know, good while they’re on the ground, but is going to pay dividends in the person’s life who goes, you know, for the rest of their life, that’s a really small investment for, you know, an eternal reward for that. The other thing that I would say too is having to go and ask people to consider supporting you on a short-term trip, there is nothing that will create dependence like that because I’m a proud, independent person. I earned my way. I paved my way. That’s kind of what the American way is. It’s like pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Do it. And so learning to be interdependent on other people and to invite them –

SPEAKER 04 : 24:49

That has stopped me actually from because I thought, well, you know, I have a perfect format for fundraising. If I want to go on a mission trip, you know, I could do, you know, on my show, I could talk about it. But I don’t like to ask anyone for anything. And a lot of people have been like, oh, you should get into real estate or you should get into that, you know, marketing or network marketing or whatever where you sell to your friends. I’m like, I don’t like asking my friends for anything. And so I’ve never wanted to do anything like that where I like use – I feel like I take advantage of my friendships, relationships, et cetera. But you’re saying you’re blessing them with the opportunity to sow into their faith and into the good works that I may be doing that maybe they can’t go do right now.

SPEAKER 01 : 25:29

Yep, that’s exactly right. Anyone who’s a parent knows how much of a joy it is to give to our children.

SPEAKER 04 : 25:36

Yes.

SPEAKER 01 : 25:36

And there’s that same sort of joy that comes with generosity in the church as well. So, you know, it’s not a high-pressure sort of thing, you know, where we’re trying to force people so that we can raise a certain amount of money. We’re saying, here’s something that God has called me to. Would you pray and talk with Jesus about how you might partner with me in that? Honestly, you know, as a guy who has to raise, you know, support for his, you know, salary, you know, year in, year out, you know, I’ve been doing it almost 20 years. Wow. God has been eminently faithful, but the thing that matters more to me than the giving are the prayers. That is what sustains us. And like talking to you here today, I would say, of course, of course that’s true. But when I live my normal life, I don’t live like that’s true at all. I look at my support account. I’m like, man, what’s going to happen this year? And, you know, what if these people can’t give or what about that? And Jesus is saying, I have all the resources you will ever need at my disposal. I want you to be dependent on me and I want you to have people join you in talking with me and praying and be invested in the rest of the world and what I’m doing out there.

SPEAKER 04 : 26:45

Wow. Let’s talk about, you know, dependence on others. I mean, and trusting in the Lord to provide for you. I mean, I didn’t realize you had to do that every year for 20 years as well. So I take it you give them, you know, guidance and help in terms of the fundraising, giving them advice on what to do.

SPEAKER 01 : 27:04

Sure. There’s some of that in the book. There’s lots of resources on our website or other short-term trip websites. Most of the organizations that host short-term trips have a pretty developed funding model. So, you know, the scary part isn’t like the mechanics of doing it. It’s to actually put yourself out there and to say to Jesus, because I love you, I’m willing to have lunch with a friend and ask them to consider supporting us. And that just does untold spiritual good in your heart and in their heart, no matter how they respond.

SPEAKER 04 : 27:37

Now, as far as the book, I want to give information on how people can find you and the book and also Surge as well if they want to look into taking a trip themselves. But tell us what – you’ve got about a minute left – the takeaway, what you want people to take away from Life Changing Mission.

SPEAKER 01 : 27:56

I think the big thing is that we are all called to live on mission, no matter where we are, no matter what we’re doing. Short-term trips aren’t something that we do in addition to our life so that we can live on mission. We live on mission every single day, and short-term trips can spur us on to that, motivate us, help us see things more clearly than that.

SPEAKER 04 : 28:16

Now, in terms of people finding you and Surge, tell us a little about the best way to find your book, your website, etc.? ?

SPEAKER 01 : 28:23

Yep. Best way to find us is through our website, so surge.org, and it’s S-E-R-G-E. So it’s the Surge Stitch, and the website will explain why that’s part of our name. And then you can find the book through our publisher, New Growth Press, and that’s newgrowthpress.com. They carry all of our publications, including Life Change Missions.

SPEAKER 04 : 28:43

Excellent. Thank you, Patrick. Thank you, Angie. Real blessing to have you on the show. I’d love to have you back. Thank you.

SPEAKER 02 : 28:49

Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.