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Join us as we unpack the heated dialogue surrounding the Ukraine-Russia conflict. Secretary of State Marco Rubio sheds light on the U.S. stance and the important, albeit overlooked, elements of negotiation strategy. In an era of media spin, understanding the complexities of international relations has never been more crucial. As we navigate these turbulent waters, discover the role of economic leverage and military strategy in a world that’s more interconnected than ever.
SPEAKER 06 :
Today’s show, Ukrainian President Zelensky to meet at the White House with President Trump.
SPEAKER 14 :
Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Logan Sekula.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome to Sekula. Once again, it’s a Monday. Will Haynes is joining me in studio. Jordan Sekula, my brother, is joining me in studio. And later on, Rick Rennell will be connecting with us. So it’s going to be a jam-packed show. You’re not going to want to miss this. Of course, we are talking about the fallout over the weekend as President Trump did officially meet with Vladimir Putin and how that went. Depending on what news source you watch. Hey, maybe you’re watching… ms now which is what msnbc has decided to change their name to having to separate themselves was it my source now so there’s a space your source for news opinion and the world really you know you could not be more generic uh but you know what it’s a it’s a new day if you will but that is also a new day speaking of it’s monday and we are having a meeting between president trump and ukrainian president zielinski that’s going to happen today uh in the oval office in the white house So I’m sure we’re going to have updates throughout the day on how that went. Of course, there were some up and downs with Vladimir Putin. There’s a lot of people that thought a lot of the press, as we predicted, was going to say this was a big failure because they didn’t decide to report the news beforehand, which was going into it saying, hey, this is not going to be a peace talk. This is not going to be the decision making time. This is to get to round two. This is maybe just to get to have them eventually meet together. Right. Nothing was ever going to come of this of extreme substance. But of course, that’s not how the media decided to spin it.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. And of course, as the Secretary of State Marco Rubio made the rounds on the Sunday shows yesterday, he was pressed by a lot of people like Margaret Brennan. We’ll play that in the next segment. You don’t want to miss that. But he was trying to lay out for everyone, as President Trump said before the meeting, he wasn’t going there to negotiate on behalf of Ukraine. He was going to try to get them to the table. And this is how Secretary of State Rubio framed even what the entire point of it was. And if you see our title about what it means to negotiate a peace deal, let’s go ahead and roll bite 14.
SPEAKER 10 :
This is about what Ukraine can accept. and what Russia can accept. They both have to accept it. Otherwise, there won’t be a peace deal. If there aren’t concessions, if one side gets everything they want, that’s called surrender. That’s called the end of the war through surrender. And that’s not what we’re close to doing because neither side here is on the verge of surrender or anything close to it.
SPEAKER 04 :
And Jordan, I think that’s the entire point here is that Russia has made gains. I don’t think there’s a world ever, no matter who’s president, that would be able to negotiate something where Russia surrenders. And at that point, that is what the left media is calling for is a surrender from Russia, which has been on the offensive for several years now and taken territory that at some point, if you want the war to end, there has to be negotiations.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and there has to be the best outcome for the parties involved. So an outcome that Ukraine can accept, an outcome that Russia can accept, and go to their domestic audiences and say, you know, we got what we needed out of this. In Ukraine’s case, it was what the U.S. has got on the table is basically like an Article 5 security pact without joining NATO. And in exchange, so you’d have all of Europe and the United States backing you up against future potential Russian aggression. in exchange for land and some of those territories that Russia has held in dispute since before they even invaded and took Crimea. So this is, again, the sticking point. Now, so far, Zelensky has always said when it comes to land, they’re not having any discussions there. So I think what’s key today is, is there any wiggle room there? Does he open up the door to any room in this Ukrainian region, which is primarily Russian-speaking, And when there have been votes taken, the people there have not been opposed to rejoining Russia. Most of them consider themselves ethnic Russians and speak the Russian language.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, that’s right. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. And I want to hear from you as we are over halfway through right now, our ACLJ 35 years of victory drive. You’ve heard from our top team. You’ve gone back in time, heard from some of our incredible previous cases we’ve had, heard us talk about it. You’ve heard some of the clients. You’re going to hear them soon. I encourage you right now, if you can make a donation, do it today because your gift is doubled. I know we’re living in a very different time. But know these months are very specifically targeted so you can give and your donations can mean the most. And right now, during these specific moments, and this is going to be the last one until close to the end of the year, your donation is doubled. The last two weeks left in our 35 years of Victory Drive. We’re behind. We need your help. Go to ACLJ.org. Scan the UQR code that you see on the screen. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to Secular. Phone lines are open for you right now. 1-800-684-3110. What do you think about the fallout over the weekend of President Trump and Vladimir Putin’s meetings? And what do you think about the upcoming meeting today that will be held with Ukrainian President Zelensky? No one was sure if this was going to happen this quick. I know that was one of the big discussion points, Will. But I do think we need to address, a lot of people are watching right now. You said that it’s called Surrender right now is the title. People are going, what does that mean? What does that have to do with anything?
SPEAKER 04 :
Why don’t you give us up to speed? That’s right. And we can play this again. This is Secretary of State Marco Rubio was going around making the rounds on the Sunday shows. And I think we should play him with Margaret Brennan later, because as per usual, she was a little unhinged with some of her thoughts in questioning the secretary of state. But this is where a lot of the left right now. has positioned this as it’s already a failure because there wasn’t a guaranteed ceasefire after the summit on Friday. They were upset that Vladimir Putin had the red carpet rolled out for him. Also ignoring the fact that there was a very strongman move that President Trump did by having a B-2 bomber fly over while they were on that red carpet. Talk about intimidation factor. I can’t believe the security personnel for President Putin would have been pleased with that happening, especially because it seemed like it took him off guard. But at the end of the day, you have to look at this. And what President Trump said last week was, I am going to get the two to the table. I’m not going there to sit here and negotiate on behalf of Ukraine. I need to get both sides to the table to end a war. And when you talk about coming to a peace treaty, What Rubio here is talking about is that a peace treaty doesn’t mean that one side just walks away and gives up everything, especially when that side has lost a lot of people, has taken a lot of territory, that that would be called a surrender, not a peace treaty. So let’s go ahead and listen to Byte 14. This kind of shows insight into how they’re negotiating this as well as the Ukrainian president arrives today. But let’s roll this Byte 14 about surrender.
SPEAKER 10 :
This is about what Ukraine can accept and what Russia can accept. They both have to accept it. Otherwise, there won’t be a peace deal. If there aren’t concessions, if one side gets everything they want, that’s called surrender. That’s called the end of the war through surrender. And that’s not what we’re close to doing because neither side here is on the verge of surrender or anything close to it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Why there has been sort of a stalemate in this war for so long is that Ukraine has not gotten to the verge of collapse. Putin was not able to get to Kiev and be able to take over the entire nation like many thought would happen. A lot of that has to do with the European support, the American support for several years now.
SPEAKER 05 :
We don’t know what that would have looked like without the support from the rest of the Western world. I’m not sure that Ukraine would have been able to repel Russia this long. Obviously, when Russia first came in, Ukraine was able to repel that initial kind of shock and awe wave. But without the weapons coming in from the United States and Europe, could it have continued? I think the answer is probably no. And that’s why these European countries now, they’re probably putting more pressure on saying it’s time to move on, time to come to a conclusion that both parties can accept.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and I also have to imagine that all of these people in the media that are pushing this narrative are not dealing with reality. And I think what’s different about Marco Rubio, President Trump, the vice president, J.D. Vance, Pete Hegseth, all of these people are actually trying to get to an outcome that is based in reality because no one believes that Ukraine will surrender and say, take our country. But also, no one believes that Vladimir Putin will say, okay, you know what, I should have never done this and just retreat away back to Moscow and leave nothing at the table. If you want this war to end, there are really only a few options. Either one of them is defeated militarily. Right. And the only way that Russia would be defeated militarily would be U.S. troops on the ground fighting Russians. That would be World War III. The only other way would be concessions from both sides to be able to end the killing in the war. There’s not really this third way that it seems that many on the left and senators in the United States Senate that are on the left are saying that, you know, this is ridiculous. President Trump’s just going to get played by Putin again. I think the only ones that are clear-eyed with a sense of reality about this is the Trump administration saying there needs to be negotiation if we want this war to end and not expand further.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I mean, you’ve got to be – if you’re Russian, you’ve got to be able to go back to your constituents and say, this is why it was worth what we did. We got this, and it’s going to secure this for the Russian people. And if you’re Ukraine, you have to be able to go back and say – We were able to bring it into this conflict by getting this from the rest of the world, this agreement from the rest of the world to back us up in any future aggression. And so we’re able to give these we’ll see this sliver of territory that didn’t really want to be part of our country anyways. And that’s how you have to then sell it to your domestic audience. And you can call the ceasefire. And what a ceasefire means is the conflict pauses. It does not mean one side is won or another side is lost. It also doesn’t mean that you all of a sudden love each other and that you’re going to start working together. That just means the people stop getting killed.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, and I think that’s the goal. always been the end goal of President Trump. It’s been just people to stop dying. Now, when it comes to Ukraine and Russia, I think there’s obviously, Vladimir Putin brought a lot of the top businessmen on those trips. Clearly, they want to see business return, American business return to Russia after so many years now. of a stalemate if you will where you couldn’t really even do any kind of business with russia russia regardless how you felt about them politically and i’m sure you don’t feel that great about china i’m sure you don’t feel like great about a lot of countries we deal with um we’re pretty big importer exporter for us uh so you have those business guys who are going hey we need to wrap up this war because we need money flowing back into the country
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, no, I think it’s 100% right. The economics are a huge part of this, both for Russia and Ukraine as well. And, you know, it’s very tough for Ukraine to operate when it can’t safely remove its minerals and oil and other natural resources. And, of course, Russia has been basically banned from most of the free world. Doing anything. So the only actors they’re working with are the Chinas, the North Koreas, Iran, and maybe to some extent India. Not the most stable. Not where the majority of your exports are going. Those are countries that also export so many goods. I think what they want to do is be able to reenter the world economy. And again, I think in President Trump’s view, this is how do you stop the killing? It doesn’t mean these sides love each other. It doesn’t mean there’s been an actual end to the conflict. You’re talking about a ceasefire and see how long that will last.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s right. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. That’s 1-800-684-3110. In the next segment, we’re going to talk about the work of the ACLJ, some of the new stuff that’s been going on. We have a lot of updates for you. Like I said, Rick Grinnell is going to be joining us a little bit later. Of course, he has been on the world stage for a number of years, so a great person to always get insight from. Let’s go to Brian, though, who’s calling from Virginia on line one. Hopefully this inspires you to call in as well at 1-800-684-3110. Brian, go ahead. Yeah, my comment is, hey,
SPEAKER 07 :
My comment is just that there’s a third way that you’re not mentioning, which is we continue to support Ukraine militarily until Russia’s economy collapses. And they’re on the verge of collapse now. They’re actually starting to ration gas. Their inflation is crazy. And once their economy collapses, they’ll have to withdraw the troops because they’re not going to have the money to fund the war since they’re in a war footing right now. And so I just hope that President Trump will follow through with his ultimatums that he comes up with against Putin as far as raising sanctions. That’s going to help speed that process.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and Brian, I think that that is the most effective tool the United States has against Russia, is the economic warfare that can be waged against Putin. And I know, as Logan mentioned, that’s why there were business leaders there that obviously are tied very directly to the Kremlin, and I would assume also intelligence within the Russian world as well, But Brian, to your point also, that if it is the third way is just to continue supporting Ukraine with weapons as much as possible and keep pushing the sanctions. I think the other angle, the concern from the president is that then when you back Russia into a corner where their economy is on the verge of collapse, that is when a nuclear power. gets a lot more dangerous to our security by maybe forcing them to act irrationally because the pain pressure point has gone so far. Obviously, it’s better to negotiate that out and try to end it without an actual nuclear war breaking out.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I mean, listen, this was an interesting… meeting between the president and Vladimir Putin because, again, the president was clear. We’re not going to come to a conclusion here because we’ve got to bring in the other side. But let’s actually hear Russia out on what it is that they really want to get at least a ceasefire here. I thought also the scenery was interesting. Having Putin walk past all of our F-35s, having the B-2 bomber have a flyover while he’s walking. I mean, I think there was also that sign of, do you really want us to continue supplying Ukraine with the most advanced weaponry in the world? Because that is the reason why Russia has advanced so little. into Ukraine. So there were a lot of signals going on there, and I don’t think the media is being fair enough to say this was as much about signaling and appearance and imagery as it was the actual content of the discussion.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I think every single journalist is being disingenuous when they keep saying they rolled out the red carpet for Vladimir Putin, when they literally did a B-2 bomber fly over his head and he looked surprised. That was posturing. That is saying, do not mess with the United States. We’re a lot stronger than you are.
SPEAKER 06 :
It was pretty cool. Oh, it was great. What do you think? I mean, not much. 1-800-684-3110. I want you to call in. A lot of you are listening and watching, but come on. No silence here. Give us a call at 1-800-684-3110. But you know what else is golden better than silence, Will? And that is our ACLJ 35 Years of Victory Drive, which only got two weeks left. Have your donations doubled today as we celebrate 35 years of victory and what we have to look forward to. And in the next segment, we’re going to talk about some of those, where the ACLJ is currently in fight in federal court and how you can be involved in that as well. So right now, I’m going to encourage you. Go to ACLJ.org. Scan the QR code if you can. When we get back from the break, we’re going to tell you all about it. This break’s only about a minute long, so stay tuned. Welcome back to Stack Yellow. Phone lines are open for you. If you were watching during the break, if you were watching on YouTube or on Rumble where you don’t get commercial breaks, you get special video presentations, you may have seen just a brilliant piece that our team put together that really showcased how these fights continue on, where you flash back to Bridge and Murgans, the original cases, the original Supreme Court cases of the ACLJ, that are cresting on that 35 35 plus years of time then you jump forward 35 plus years and we are still out there fighting for very similar reasons people that just want to be able to speak their voice talk about their faith talk about their pro-life views without being arrested without being told they can’t of course we know that is the law now there is a big update right now that’s last week the aclj we were in court arguing before a federal judge to prevent enforcement of an constitutional law. This was in Carbondale, Illinois. Well, this was one that you probably have heard about before we’ve been talking about it, but it’s now progressing.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. So this was a situation where there was a group of anti-abortion advocates that were out in front of an abortion clinic in Carbondale, Illinois. And this was one actually where our team quickly sprung into action when they reached out to a team member here and said listen the police are on their way uh because a city manager is forcing them to come and trying to shut this down can we have some help we were able to de-escalate the situation there but the uh constitutional violation stood because they were arguing that there was no right for them to have signs where they had signs Now, this is one of those where you get into the technicalities of an ordinance. But what we argue is that it’s unconstitutionally vague because there are plenty of examples of other signs that were throughout the community that they had no problem with. But when it’s anti-abortion sign, pro-life sign, such as love your neighbor as your unborn neighbor as yourself. That becomes a constitutional crisis where they have to call the police. Jordan, last week we were in federal court with an evidentiary hearing that lasted quite a while.
SPEAKER 06 :
It lasts way longer than the actual events.
SPEAKER 05 :
Eight hours of evidentiary hearing. This, again, tells you how committed some of these cities and city leaders are to suppressing the pro-life message outside of these abortion clinics. They don’t want that message there. It’s interesting because when our client… even tried to comply with their rules and said, oh, there is a way you can, there’s a permitting option for 501c organizations. When they went to go file for that permit, the city came back and the officials denied that a process even existed. So they were making things up as they went, saying, no, no, there’s a process to go through. You’re not going through the process. When they tried to go through the process, which, by the way, doesn’t make it constitutional, the process didn’t exist. And so a lot of issues here for the city of Carbondale. But important here, just another example of why you have to fight for freedom of speech, and especially when you are talking about pro-life speech, which is always treated differently than any other kind of speech in the United States.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, Jordan, I think also when you hear and this is a part of, you know, this case at this point, the evidentiary hearing, the city has also filed a motion to dismiss. We’re waiting on the judge to rule on things like that, whether or not it stays in federal court or whether or not we have to already go to an appeal. But our team, our legal team that spent eight hours over two days fighting this, talking to the judge last week is confident that, you know, we have the law and the Constitution on our side. But even when you hear this, that one of our clients told the Carbondale community development manager, I’m demonstrating against abortion. I have a right to do that. The city manager responded with, no, you don’t. So imagine the outrage if city officials were going around about any other issue where there was someone demonstrating and said, no, you don’t have a constitutional right to demonstrate in the United States of America. And so that’s why it’s even much broader than just about the speech that we are trying to protect here, the pro-life speech that If community managers can go around and start taking away your First Amendment right by just blanketly shutting it down that you have a right to demonstrate, that’s really tearing at the fabric of our Constitution in our country.
SPEAKER 05 :
What they think that they’re doing is that they’re taking out speech that no one will fight back for, that no one wants to see speech on abortion. People want to ignore that the abortion clinic’s even there. You don’t want to see the pro-life speaker, the sidewalk counselor, the person on the street corner. But America is founded on that person on the street corner. having a message, the ability to pamphlet. I mean, that’s what the original founding fathers did. They pamphleteered. They went around from cities and towns putting out this message that we should be free. We should declare our independence. This is why we should do it. And they used the freedoms that they then enshrined in our own constitution and that we still fight for 250 years later.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, and the ACLJ is continuing to fight over 35 years later, very specifically for free speech, but how we’ve been able to word it, because of course we’re talking a lot of times about religious freedom, but religious freedom through the eyes of the freedom of speech, the First Amendment. I do want to say, if we can pull that ad that you ran, maybe we can show it later on in the broadcast in the main show, because I think it’s pretty cool to flashback 35 years and then to flash forward, see where we’re at right now and actually hear from the people whose lives have been changed, but not just the individual lives that have been changed, how law has been changed, so therefore all of our lives have been changed. None of that happens, again, without your support. None of those clients ever paid a dollar to the ACLJ. And that’s great. That’s why we’re doing it. No one paid a dollar to watch this show right now. We’re not behind a paywall. We do all of this content absolutely for free because you’re able to financially support it with donations. And we’re able to get the word out there as much as we can. And that’s always been the goal here is to be as available as we can to as many people as possible at all the time. And to do that with any other corporate overlords controlling what we have to say. So whether we are on your local radio station, they’re picking up our show. They have no control over what we say or what we don’t say. Whether you’re watching on the Salem News Channel, whether you’re watching on YouTube or Rumble, we are our own independent media source. We’re our own independent legal source. And none of that happens without you. And we want to make sure we’re there for you as well. Let’s go ahead and take a phone call again. Let’s go to Mary Ellen in Illinois. Long-time caller, long-time listener. Mary Ellen, go ahead.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, hello. I just couldn’t resist this one because I know how the Planned Parenthood operation works. They fund the political campaign funds, and those guys down there, down in Carbondale, they don’t want to lose that money, and that’s why they’re fighting us.
SPEAKER 04 :
And Mary Ellen obviously calling from Illinois. And honestly, that is, Jordan, one of the large truths about people that are, I don’t know this individual’s party affiliation, but especially Democrat politicians is how much money that Planned Parenthood funnels in, not just at the large level, but across the country to make sure that their interests are protected. And a lot of times, those interests go against the very Constitution of the United States. That’s why we’re fighting in Massachusetts. We have a reply brief due in just four days in Massachusetts against that campaign where the state of Massachusetts was partnering with a firm, with a pro-abortion group, to target pro-life pregnancy resource centers. They were using taxpayer dollars to do that. And we’ll be filing a brief in federal court in just a few days on their motion to dismiss, which is trying to get it thrown out of court.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I mean, listen, I think this is a great example about why the ACLJ must exist. And that’s because it is so easy for other individuals and groups to say, oh, this is Carbondale, Illinois. This isn’t going to really impact my constitutional rights. It’s one person. It’s a guy on a street corner. And we’ve always treated that as so important because Because that person on the street corner can set precedent for you, me, and your grandchildren in the future about what the freedom of speech means in the United States of America. Is there abortion distortion? Can you, again, embrace the same freedom of speech based on whatever viewpoint you have because you are taking advantage of the guarantees we have in the United States Constitution? Which, by the way, are only words if we don’t fight to make sure that those words remain in action.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s right. Phone lines are open for you as we head into the second half hour. I want to hear from you. But remember, if you lose us here, you can always find us broadcasting live at ACLJ.org, on YouTube, on Rumble, on the ACLJ app. And then later on, wherever you get your podcasts, we’re there. But I would encourage you right now, as we head into the second half hour, we only got one minute break. It’s a great time to think about supporting the ACLJ. Do it today at ACLJ.org. We’re going to be back in less than a minute.
SPEAKER 14 :
keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever. This is Sekulow. And now your host, Logan Sekulow.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s right. Second half hour coming up on this Monday. Jordan Sekulow is joining me in studio. Rick Grinnell is coming in next segment. And Will Haynes is here as well as we continue on. For those who are just tuning in right now, or maybe you just check out the second half hour, you may have seen the title. You may have been wondering what we’re talking about here. And of course, Will, we are talking about really what we’re heading into, which is a meeting today with Volodymyr Zelensky. I got to make sure I always get them all right. Volodymyr and Vladimir. How about Ukraine President Zelensky? V, Russia, President Vladimir Putin. And the meeting in between, of course, comes from President Trump meeting just this past weekend in Alaska, taking that mega flight.
SPEAKER 04 :
you know what i think we owe an apology to sarah palin you know what the greatest thing is logan there was a bbc commentator that literally put out showing a flight path said way closer for him why didn’t he stop at dc on the way why go all the way to alaska someone from the bbc and said oh i just realized how close alaska and russia are um
SPEAKER 06 :
that alone justifies the revolutionary war the fact that their media can’t uh go ahead and tell you where how close they are because it’s not a flat earth folks i went to wales last month and you had no idea where it was we’re like where is it on the map here is it north south where are we talking about here we’re talking about russia four countries within one country it’s very difficult yeah don’t do that yeah it’s kind of over there yeah it’s western coastal town uh let’s talk Let’s talk about this, though, because you did have that meeting over the weekend, and I think that it proved to be what the media wants to spend. It’s completely unsuccessful. But I think the fact that you have a Zelensky meeting today proves that otherwise. That at least there’s something to talk about.
SPEAKER 04 :
Let’s give them something to talk about, as once was told. Well, and we already know that the NATO Secretary General has arrived, the United Kingdom’s Prime Minister, the President of the European Commission, and the Italian Prime Minister have all arrived at the White House. Zelensky, I assume, will follow these…
SPEAKER 06 :
The concept, though, that a lot of people are spinning this is they’re trying to pressure.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and I think we should play this because this is Margaret Brennan, who has famously said crazy things about, you know, maybe they maybe you don’t know what started the Holocaust, which was free speech to Marco Rubio, by the way. Here is her new hot take with Marco Rubio and his pushback from yesterday.
SPEAKER 09 :
What network is this on?
SPEAKER 04 :
On CBS, Space Nation. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 09 :
You know there is concern from the Europeans that President Zelensky is going to be bullied into signing something away. That’s why you have these European leaders coming as backup tomorrow.
SPEAKER 10 :
Can you reassure them?
SPEAKER 09 :
No, it isn’t.
SPEAKER 10 :
That’s not why they’re coming as backup. That’s not true. That’s not true. They’re not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelensky from being bullied.
SPEAKER 09 :
That February Oval Office meeting in front of television cameras where President Zelensky was dressed down… Do you know how many meetings you’ve had since then? I know, and I was just up in Alaska watching the one with Vladimir Putin where red carpet rolls out for the Russian leader.
SPEAKER 10 :
No, but it was Zelensky. We’ve had more meetings. We’ve had one meeting with Putin and like a dozen meetings with Zelensky. But that’s not true. They’re not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelensky from being bullied. They’re coming here tomorrow because we’ve been working with the Europeans. We talked to them last week. There were meetings in the UK over the previous weekend. And they said President Trump was going to demand a ceasefire. As early as Thursday. But you said that they’re coming here tomorrow to keep Zelensky from being bullied. They’re not coming here tomorrow. This is such a stupid media narrative that they’re coming here tomorrow because Trump is going to bully Zelensky into a bad deal. We’ve been working with these people for weeks, for weeks on this stuff. They’re coming here tomorrow because they chose to come here tomorrow. We invited them to come. We invited them to come. The president invited them to come.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right there. The media trying to spin it, Jordan, that they’re coming to try and protect. As if they can just show up at the White House, too, to prevent him from being bullied.
SPEAKER 05 :
They’re knocking on the door. Oh, we just don’t want you getting in a fight with Zelensky again. They’re trying to be a united force of the Western world.
SPEAKER 06 :
If that is what it is, then maybe we need to be looking at what it is. Because every country is saying, listen here, Zelensky, we’ve got to talk.
SPEAKER 05 :
I think more of this is, can we come together with a united agreement that we present to Putin to say, we agree on this. Do you agree on this? Can we go this far and get a ceasefire?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yep. All right. Phone lines are open for you. 1-800-684-3110. Rick Grinnell is going to be joining us in the next segment to talk about this and more. Again, that is at 1-800-684-3110 if you want to call in. I still would love to hear from you. I’d love to hear more from you. Especially after Rick. All we’re going to do is take calls if they come. This is the time. You ever want to hear your voice on the radio? I love telling that to our phone screeners. 1-800-684-3110 because you never know what you’re going to get. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to Secular. As I said, get in line right now because we’re taking as many calls as we can. Three lines are full. Three lines are open. 1-800-684-3110. After we talk with Rick, we’re going to go to your phone calls. But Rick, we definitely want to get your thoughts on this. It was a monumental weekend. You had a meeting with President Trump, meeting with Putin, and now today meeting with Zelensky. And I’m going to kick it over to Will because this is an important time, obviously, on the world stage. You have all these world leaders coming in, not taking it very seriously, not taking it lightly.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and Rick, obviously, there was that historic summit that the president did something that President Biden never did, which was actually talk to Putin about ending this war. But obviously, if you listen to any of the media, really, all you’re hearing is that President Trump was played by Putin. No, he didn’t even get anything, didn’t get a ceasefire. They ignore that President Trump even beforehand said Putin. My goal here is not to negotiate for Ukraine. It’s to bring the two to the table. What are your thoughts, you know, cutting through all the noise about what we saw on Friday?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, look, anyone who thinks that you can have one meeting and immediately have a ceasefire has never done diplomacy. This is what the microwave generation likes. They want it instantaneously. But it’s very difficult to bring about peace after you have a full-fledged war. And I will remind everybody that Donald Trump kept the peace, and that is just as difficult. Keeping the peace is very difficult. But once you delve into war, And then you have to dig yourself out. I mean, Joe Biden handed us a terrible situation where he was unwilling to talk to the Russians. And and we saw massive war. It was getting worse every single month. And then suddenly President Trump comes in office and the media is like, why aren’t you producing a ceasefire? Well, if it was easy, Joe Biden would have done it. And the fact of the matter is, is that the Democrats and I want to say a special criticism of Senator Chris Van Hollen, because he seems to be one of the leaders of the microwave generation. He wants instantaneous solutions from Trump while he had infinite patience for President Biden. And I don’t think that that’s fair. I think it’s very political. It’s what politicians do. They don’t hold people of different parties to the same standards. But one thing that I do know is that Donald Trump is not one of these people. who issues a policy and then walks away and says, I issued a policy, everybody should follow it. He’s constantly watching to see if it was implemented properly, if it’s working. We have never had a president who is so willing to adjust a policy very quickly when it’s not working. And that’s what I love. He is monitoring, believe you me. I spoke to him over this weekend Literally, the man is working nonstop. And what he wants to be able to do is monitor, get as much information, talk to as many people as possible. But he is absolutely in charge and sees the long term. He is a strategist. He is a negotiator. And we’ve got to give him a little space here.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think when you see President Trump clearly having a long flight, flying to Alaska, having to fly back, all the things that are having to get done for these meetings, but was very clear and very upfront. for this meeting saying, look, I don’t plan on walking out of here with an agreement. I plan on walking out of here, hopefully getting us to round two of a meetings where now we’ll meet with Zelensky and hopefully we can get them to the table. Of course, though, the media had to run with this crazy narrative that the goal was to walk out of there with it all said and done. Of course, would everyone have loved that? Would have been amazing? Sure. But it simply wasn’t going to be the case. And we knew that going in, but that didn’t stop the headlines and the headlines coming in from what is it now? Well, it’s not MSNBC anymore. MS now. MS Now, my source now, it didn’t stop that narrative from being what they tried to push this weekend, which was couldn’t get anything done. Nothing happened. All we did was bow down to Putin when clearly that’s not the case and was never the spoken goal of this entire summit.
SPEAKER 02 :
Look, I’ve been in tens of thousands of diplomatic negotiations, and let me just tell you how they go. You put one side in a room and you talk to them and you figure out what’s their lowest kind of common denominator or what will they accept, where will they move, and where are they absolutely not willing to go. And then you have to go to the other side and listen to theirs, and then you have to come up with really creative solutions. That’s diplomacy. And It all starts once you get them to agree and say, okay, I’m going to take a little bit of a faith jump. I’m going to step out. I’m going to believe you. I’m going to try to believe the other side. We’re both going to come together with some faith. And at that moment when there’s a handshake or when there’s an agreement, that’s when the real diplomacy has to begin to hold it. You have to go back. And the same people who negotiated the peace have to be the ones that hold it to account because you know the vulnerabilities. you know exactly where they bent where they moved where they didn’t really want to move but they did and so they’re going to be a little sensitive and jumpy on watching that moment break and so i i think that if you haven’t done diplomacy you should take a step back and trust the people who are actually doing the negotiations and and recognize that these things are incredibly difficult we didn’t get into this situation overnight we’re not going to get out of it overnight
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and Rick, and that’s one of the reasons we love having you on the broadcast to talk about diplomacy, because I feel like there is such a breakdown in our culture about understanding the process of diplomacy, understanding the outcomes and goals of diplomatic relations and meetings and summits. The Democrats in the Senate, as you’ve mentioned, are adding more fuel to that fire, that breakdown of the education of the public of how this works, and the media as well, with Margaret Brennan going after Secretary of State Rubio now by saying that they’re not going to get this ceasefire done. In negotiations, people have to give something up. And that is what the point that the Secretary of State made is that if you don’t give anything up, then one side is surrendering. And when the Democrats push this narrative that they’re trying to set the expectation for the country and the world that Russia will surrender, not negotiate. And that’s just a dangerous position to start your entire worldview and mindset from is that If you’re going into negotiations expecting a surrender from a side, then you are never going to get anywhere. So they’re doing a disservice to the country as well, I feel like.
SPEAKER 02 :
Look, a lot of these people who are black and white and really neoconish, they don’t understand the implications of what they’re doing. Remember, Joe Biden put us in a terrible position by creating a hostility with Russia, not talking with Putin. So we have to now build a little goodwill. We have to be able to make sure that both sides understand that we want peace, that we’re going to do, the middle guy is going to be the hard negotiator. It still is all about Ukraine and Russia, but the facilitator, President Trump, is somebody who has an enormous role by pushing, prodding, and also letting them know that we’re listening And we want a solution. Now, look, the critics, the black and white types who just want war or peace and they don’t understand how to get there, they’re going to complain about everything. They’re going to complain that the facilitator is being too nice to one side. I’m super comfortable with that. President Trump is comfortable with the critics. I think if you want peace, you’re going to have to have a leader who steps up, takes criticism that they were either too tough or too weak or depending on the side, just getting the complaints constantly. I think that’s okay as long as you bring about peace and you stop the death and destructions.
SPEAKER 06 :
With only about a minute left, Rick, what should people be looking for? I mean, I think that was one of the big stories coming out of the meeting with Putin. What should they be looking for with this meeting with Zelensky? What’s good? What’s bad? You know, what are positive movements that they should be keeping their eyes on in terms of the way the administrations are going to be speaking?
SPEAKER 02 :
Look, I would say that it’s not going to be solved today. We’re going to have to go back and speak to the Russians. So you want momentum. You want to be able to have a progress a little bit better today than you did yesterday. And so at the end of today, after they hear from Zelensky and the European leaders, I think there’s going to have to be a conversation again with Putin to say, you know, here’s where I think we might have some movement or some wiggle room.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Thank you, Rick, for joining us. I appreciate it. Always good to have your insight. If you want to call in also right now, we have some calls lined up. We also lost a few calls there. So we have some open lines at 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. As we head into the final two weeks now, less than two weeks in our 35 years of victory drive. This is the last time until the holidays where you can give and have your donations doubled. So I encourage you right now. We urgently need your support to continue all the fights the ACLJ has been doing. We are down, and I’m not going to sugarcoat that. I’m not going to lie to you. I’ll just tell you that we are. We really could use your support right now. So if you like this show, if you like the legal work we do, and you want to know more about it, by the way, stay tuned. Because in the next segment, I’m going to show you what it looks like to have a case from 35-plus years ago and have a case that we just are right now fighting. Be a part of that journey with us. You’ve already been with us for 35 years. If you haven’t financially given, get side by side with us. Let’s do it together. All donations are doubled right now. We are facing a lot of deadlines, critical court deadlines, even our media deadlines to decide what we’re going to do to progress this broadcast into the future. And we can’t do that without your support. You can’t pay for this crew. You can’t pay for airtime. There’s a lot of things you can’t pay for. unless you’re being a part of it. So scan the QR code if you can, or go to aclj.org if you’re just listening. And again, we’ll be right back with your calls and comments coming right up. Last segment of the day is one I like to hear from you, but we’ve got some open lines, so I want to hear from you. This is kind of the last chance to call in. Call in right now, and it’s on topic. I’ll do my best to get you up. 1-800-684-3110. Of course, cresting on the two weeks left in our 35 years of victory drive. We’re celebrating the ACLJ, and I know you may look back and go, Logan, I don’t care. It’s your anniversary. Why do I care about this? I mean, this has been an organization that was founded at our kitchen table. So it’s very personal to me. and obviously 35 years, and I’m about to turn 40 years old, what does that tell you? It tells you that I’ve been in this for not only the mass majority of my life since I was about four years old, and look, there was things that predated the brand at ACLJ. I’ve been at it for my entire life. And we are seeing this next generation of people. It’s really beautiful, even for me, to finally see that sort of your next group coming up behind me that is doing amazing work. And I want you to be a part of that. And with that, at first I wanted to take a phone call because this is coming from ACLJ Champion. Understand, ACLJ Champion is someone that helps flood the baseline. They give a donation every month on a recurring basis like a membership. They don’t ask for anything else. They don’t get anything else. All they do is have their credit card charged or debit card charged once a month automatically. Of course, they can cancel at any time. One little perk I like to give them, though, is when they call in, they get bumped to the front of the line. So, Pat, on line one, ACLJ champion, I first have to just say thank you. Go ahead with your comments.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yes, I wanted to know if we might have a demilitarized zone between Ukrainian and Russian territory to end this thing, or at least like North and South Korea. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, Pat, that’s actually a very good thought. They have plenty of room probably to be able to do that. I’m going to kick it to Will, who’s actually been in that military zone. I have been to the DMZ, yes. In North Korea and South Korea. You were mostly on the South Korean side.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. I mean, but you do get to step over technically. into the territory of North Korea. But Pat, to your point, I think that that is probably what is being discussed when you look at some of these statements that they’re considering giving effectively like an Article 5 protection to Ukraine without officially bringing them into NATO. So giving them security guarantees, that’s what’s being talked about in the press reports, as well as knowing that Asking Russia at that point to then cede territory, that’s where a lot of people get it backwards in the media. They’re saying you can’t ask Ukraine to give up territory. The unfortunate reality is Ukraine lost territory in war. There was an aggressor, that was Russia, that came and took it. But at this point, in this stage of the game, you’d be asking Russia to give up territory they conquered. So Ukraine doesn’t have a lot of say in that at that point. So maybe something like a DMZ, a demilitarized zone. where there is NATO peacekeepers or UN peacekeepers of some degree. That’s what you see. You see UN buildings when you go to the DMZ as well in North Korea and South Korea. So you start to think maybe it’s something that looks like that where no one officially controls the territory, but the hostilities have stopped because we know North Korea and South Korea never ended their war. They are still at war, even though the hostilities have ceased. It spikes sometimes, yeah. Every once in a while you see some provocations, you see saber rattling, but that doesn’t mean that you have an all-out conflict between the two nations. That is likely… Very open travel to South Korea. If they are able to get to something, that is likely, Pat, what we would see is something that is where both sides are having to give something up. Ukraine is gaining some sort of protection from the Europeans and the United States. They are also not forever giving that territory away. It would still be disputed territory in that way. But then they also gain the end of the war and having to fight and concern that their entire capital and country would be taken over at some point.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s a very good thought, Pat, and something that I’m sure they are thinking of. If you’re thinking of it, hopefully they are. And if they’re not, hopefully they’re listening to the show. I see a lot of people commenting who have also been to the DMZ and say, why not? It seems like a perfect way to do this. Let’s take one more call. Let’s go to Patricia in New Jersey. Real quick, Patricia, and then I want to play you guys a special video presentation. Patricia, go ahead. Sure.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yes. OK. All right. I voted for President Trump. My daughter is very, very angry. She does not like him. And I have to be so careful when I’m in her presence. I try not to say anything. So they were talking about the martial law in Washington, D.C. And, you know, I understand what’s going on. And then my daughter said, oh, they’re taking all these homeless people. They’re they’re taking them like they’re animals and putting them in these buildings. And I really didn’t know the answer for that. I don’t believe that’s what they’re doing. So I wanted to know if you could perhaps maybe enlighten me in some way that I could understand it.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’ll break it up here real quick is that D.C. can be taken over and control. by the federal government we saw a overrun an issue that was going on with the homeless community look i’m very compassionate to that i’ve been talking about that on the air this week that i want them to be treated with dignity and respect i want to give people help get them into mental health facilities i want these people to be uh really treated well fed let’s take care of our own they’ll love your neighbor do what you can but then again you have to take action when your city’s getting overrun you can’t let it just become uh chaos
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, Patricia, this is what I would say in any civil discussion is that, one, the crime in D.C. is out of control. The capital of the United States of America is seeing murder rates that double places like Columbia.
SPEAKER 06 :
by the way, worse now than it was even during an Obama administration. It’s worse than it’s been a long time.
SPEAKER 04 :
It has been a growing problem. It, the DC used to be very unsafe and it was very safe. Now we are returning to that era where you’re seeing people that are not, not, uh, you know, gang related violence. You’re seeing where a staffer, an intern is shot down in the streets, muggings, carjackings, all of these things are getting to a level that is unacceptable, especially for the Capitol, the example of our country, uh, he’s only taking it over the only length of time he can take it over federalize this is for 30 days unless congress re-ups that and then you have to also think that what dc is doing is not humanitarian by just letting people live on the streets in that nature something’s got to be done that’s right hey we got 10 seconds to set this up i want you to look at the aclj past and present what we’ve been doing and what we’re doing now take a look at this we’ll talk to you tomorrow
SPEAKER 08 :
In 1985, in high school, I had a newfound faith, and I was very passionate. I wanted to start up a Christian club, but it seemed that God had a larger agenda.
SPEAKER 03 :
On December 28, 2024, I was simply exercising my constitutional rights along with my wife, protesting peacefully outside an abortion clinic.
SPEAKER 08 :
I had a small group of friends and we just wanted to get together and use the property like any other club would. We wanted to read the Bible and study God’s Word, encourage one another in our faith.
SPEAKER 03 :
I was sharing the gospel with somebody and the cops showed up. I didn’t even really notice it. Cops just come up to me and say, you’re coming with us. I asked, well, for what? He said, it’s not time for questions. You’re coming with us. I walked with them and then probably in the back of a SWAT car and then cited me again for allegedly causing too much noise and being annoying or inconvenient.
SPEAKER 08 :
We wanted to have the Bible study meet in the school and we thought it’d be no problem to start. I went to every aspect of the school until we were finally met with a no at the school board level. It seemed like such a violation of my rights. The ACLJ came to help us through the next phase, which was going to be a request presented to the U.S. Supreme Court.
SPEAKER 14 :
On June 4, 1990, the United States Supreme Court issued a landmark decision. Eight of the nine Supreme Court justices ruled in favor of Mergens.
SPEAKER 03 :
I went to court multiple times. The ACLJ was with me. By the grace of God, I met the ACLJ’s hard work. That case was completely dismissed. And it’s wonderful to have somebody fighting for us so hard. And that’s what the ACLJ has done.
SPEAKER 11 :
We set a precedent, not just for us, but for all sidewalk counselors which need to be protected.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. I want you to go to ACLJ.org. And again, we will talk to you tomorrow.
