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The conversation then shifts to the realm of green energy and electric vehicles, unraveling the realities of government influence and market dynamics. Interesting parallels are drawn between the innovation cycle of electric vehicles and big-screen TVs, exploring how consumer markets and government policies affect pricing and technology adoption. Join John and his guests as they dissect the economics of EVs, uncovering the truth behind subsidies and market pressures – a must-listen for anyone curious about the future of energy and transport.
SPEAKER 04 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 16 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 04 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 13 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job first. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 09 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life. That there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 13 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 07 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 15 :
And it is Tuesday. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Appreciate you all listening. Andy Pate with me today. Charlie Grimes, of course, our engineer. How’s Andy today?
SPEAKER 19 :
Andy’s doing very well. It’s a beautiful day. How about yourself?
SPEAKER 15 :
Very good. Busy, but good. No complaints.
SPEAKER 19 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s a little warm, but that’s all right.
SPEAKER 19 :
I made a lot of enemies online today, but that’s okay.
SPEAKER 15 :
That happens. All right. We’ll get to that in a moment. Let’s do this. Impossible question from yesterday, March 10th, 1876. The first discernible speech was transmitted over a telephone system by inventor Alexander Graham Bell. What did he say? Mr. Watson, come here. I want you. There you go, Mr. Watson.
SPEAKER 19 :
Okay, so the first thing spoken on a phone was a man saying he wanted a man.
SPEAKER 15 :
A man saying he wanted a man. Come in here. I want you.
SPEAKER 19 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 15 :
Get in here, Watson. Get over here.
SPEAKER 19 :
Very progressive age. Okay, what’s today’s question?
SPEAKER 15 :
I’m guessing, because I mean, I wasn’t there, but I think as the story goes, they weren’t expecting things to really work. And so when he said that, I think Watson was like, wow, this thing actually works. What do you know?
SPEAKER 19 :
I wonder how many tries did they have with failures, I wonder, that led up to it? I mean, remember the light bulb itself.
SPEAKER 15 :
went through a million failures. Oh, Charlie’s right. Yeah, the Watson computer from Apple came from that particular story honoring him. Yeah.
SPEAKER 19 :
Very cool.
SPEAKER 15 :
I was trying to read the article here that Ann put in here to see, Andy, if it does in fact say how many times they actually went through. So in his free time, Bell experimented with sound waves and became convinced it would be possible to transmit speech over a telegraph-like system. He enlisted the aid of gifted mechanic Thomas Watson, and together the two spent countless nights trying to convert Bell’s ideas into practical form. In 1875, while working on his multiple harmonic telegraph, Bell developed the basic idea for the telephone. He designed a device to transmit speech vibrations electronically between two receivers, and in June 1875 tested his invention. No intelligible words were transmitted, but sound resembling human speech were heard at the receiving end. On February 14th, 1876, he filed a U.S. patent for his telephone. Just a few hours later, another American inventor, Elisha Gray, filled a caveat with the U.S. Patent Office about his intent to seek… a similar patent on a telephone transmitter and receiver. Bell filed first. So on March 7th, he was awarded U.S. Patent 17465, which granted him ownership over both his telephone instruments and the concept of a telephone system. There you go.
SPEAKER 19 :
He beat the competition.
SPEAKER 15 :
Oh, IBM. Thank you. Yeah, that’s right, Charlie. IBM had the Watson. Apple had the Newton. So Watson and Newton. Anyways, I mean, and as we all know, that invention. Which the telephone people still talk on quite a bit. We do that here when we take live calls and so on. Although I’m here to tell you that the amount of people that actually talk on the telephone today versus what it used to be is far less.
SPEAKER 19 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 15 :
People communicate in so many other ways now that this next generation, Andy, I’m not sure they know how to talk on the telephone.
SPEAKER 19 :
John, I’m not sure the next generation will know how to talk. Well, that’s another conversation in and of itself. They’ll have chat do it for them. I really don’t. Hey, by the way, why is it that guys with the last name Watson are always called Watson? They’re never called by their first name?
SPEAKER 15 :
I don’t know.
SPEAKER 19 :
Man, same thing with Holmes and Watson.
SPEAKER 15 :
Great question.
SPEAKER 19 :
Watson, I need you. Great question.
SPEAKER 15 :
All right, another impossible question for today is, what is the first semi-automatic pistol? So what is, or what was, I guess is is the right wording here. What is the first semi-automatic pistol? I’m pretty much an avid gun guy, and I did not know this answer, so this is going to surprise a lot of people. I wouldn’t have a clue. Because I would never have gotten this one right. I know the answer because it’s in front of me, and I honestly, Andy, would have never guessed this.
SPEAKER 19 :
Can you at least say roughly when it was invented?
SPEAKER 1 :
1891.
SPEAKER 15 :
Thank you. 1891, so a long time ago.
SPEAKER 19 :
Semi-automatic in 1891.
SPEAKER 15 :
Pistol even. Pistol in 1891. All right. Shows you that they’ve been around longer than most people think. All right. We’ve got a lot in store for you today. We’ve got a couple of guests lined up for you as well. Gregory Wrightstone will join us at 4. Jim Paff from the Conservative Caucus will join us at 5. Gregory, of course, is the author of A Very Convenient Warming. We’ll talk about green energy or the now failure of because when you take away all of the government push for some things— and it has to start standing on its own, it struggles.
SPEAKER 19 :
Absolutely. I think without subsidies, green energy completely falls apart. But you know what? I’m going to say one good thing that came out of it, one pretty cool thing, and that is electric cars. I know you’ve been talking about it. Obviously, my only problem with electric cars all along has been subsidies.
SPEAKER 15 :
The push. The push. Just don’t. The demand. Right. And not only the push, Andy, but I think. Don’t make me pay for someone else’s car. Yeah, I mean, the push and then, of course, all of the credits and so on. Right. But really, even the then mandates from certain states like Colorado saying, you guys are going to all drive these whether you want to or not by X time. Right. That’s just absolute garbage, Andy. It should never be that way.
SPEAKER 19 :
It’s absolute garbage. And by the way, I think it also… Having all that free money come into the industry probably drove up the price of the car as well. They’re very expensive to make. They’re rare earth minerals needed.
SPEAKER 15 :
I have a conversation along those lines.
SPEAKER 19 :
But I would think that that had to drive up the price.
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s actually… Well, there’s two sides to that. That’s a great topic. In fact, I was talking about this with Richard a little bit before we came on air. I want to follow up on that. Let’s do that after the break. You brought up a great point that I want to drive home to everybody because when government gets involved, it screws it up, and I’ll explain how in just a moment when it comes to EVs. So we’ll come back and do that in a moment. Dr. Scott Faulkner, of course, is next, and great doctor. My doctor, my wife’s as well, and is a doctor that literally thinks about things the way that you should and the way you need to be to live the healthiest life possible, meaning he’s not just going to prescribe a pill or do what big pharma and big health care say to do. He will do whatever is best for you. 303-663-6990 is how you contact him.
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SPEAKER 04 :
God. Country. Reason. Now back to John Rush.
SPEAKER 15 :
And we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Okay, back to the whole Andy started off with, you know, just quote-unquote. I always put quotations around green because it’s far from it, by the way. There’s no such thing as green or clean energy.
SPEAKER 19 :
Really quick, I’ve got to say this. Before you even get into the green cars, electric cars, there is an enormous solar farm being put up right now in Aurora, and it’s by Gun Club between, I believe, Hampton and Jewell. I think that’s where it is. John, this thing is bigger than the space that will be used for the new stadium. Right. I mean, it is absolutely huge. And by the way, those things create an enormous amount of heat. And for the amount of land you use, an incredibly small amount of energy. What a waste.
SPEAKER 15 :
I can’t disagree with you on that one, Andy. Not at all. Much better use of that land than that at the end of the day. And these are the kind of things that are going to continue to come out when it comes to some of this. Now, on the EV side of things, Andy’s comment earlier was the pricing of and where are they at today and all of that. And let me tell you what’s happened in the EV world that is not supposed to happen. It’s not supposed to work this way. Traditionally… the way new products hit the market. Let’s use the example of big screen TVs. Back in the day, when most people could barely afford a big screen TV, they were super expensive. People were still buying tube TVs because they were much less expensive, and big screens were huge. Now, fortunately there’s these people called which i tend to be in some cases depending upon the product early adopters meaning if you want that technology and you like it you’re willing to pay that extra money to have that convenience or whatever it happens to be you’ll pay that higher cost and by the way you typically early adopters know that down the road this is going to get cheaper because that’s the way the system works and people say well why is it so expensive on the front side Because any time you bring a new product to market, we were just talking about Alexander Graham Bell on the telephone, there’s all of that R&D, all of those trials and failures and different things that you do to try to get that product to market.
SPEAKER 19 :
They can’t wait 10, 20 years for that to be paid back.
SPEAKER 15 :
No. So what they do is they front load the cost of that product to help get that R&D money back. That’s why big screen TVs back in the day were literally… 10 times what they are today. And I’m not exaggerating. You can buy a full bore 55 inch TV today for 500 bucks that when they first came out, I’m not exaggerating, were four to five grand. In fact, if you look at the inflationary dollars, they were even more than that, because that five grand back in the day, you take the 500 today. In other words, it’s a fraction of the price, Andy, of what it used to be.
SPEAKER 19 :
Well, John, this is one thing I love about capitalism, okay? And people don’t seem to understand this. Everybody who wants to hate the rich, hate the rich, hate the rich, they don’t seem to understand what the rich are doing for them just as consumers. Forget even about creating jobs. Even set that aside. You have busted your tail for decades to get where you are financially, okay? And you are also a geek. You are. You’re a nerd. You’re a geek. You love the latest. You want to try it. Okay, here’s how Andy benefits from that. So John goes out and he tries these newest, latest, greatest things and has a lot of fun with them. Why? Well, you’ve set aside the money. You can afford it. You can try it out. And also you love the cool, neat things. Okay, what that does is pays the upfront costs and then people like me swoop in within a couple years and get it. First of all, we hear from people like you, what’s good, what isn’t.
SPEAKER 15 :
How great it is or isn’t.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah, it’s not that good. It’s a waste of time. Just like you and Richard, you do your auto reviews every Monday. And secondly, you guys are paying for a lot of the R&D up front. That’s the beauty of capitalism. Why are people complaining about this?
SPEAKER 15 :
I think it’s great. They shouldn’t. So what’s happened with EVs, though, and we were talking about the cost of EVs and what are we going to do now? Because what happened with EVs was it was backwards. What happened is a lot of these companies, yes, they invested billions upon billions of dollars into EV, EV technology. GM’s been doing it for years. Tesla, of course, as well. A lot of the other companies kind of came in late, probably borrowed some technology from the likes of GM and others. Regardless, at the end of the day, EV upfront cost is huge. Still is, by the way. And the reason why it still is is because what was happening is On the front side, instead of traditionally working this the way it was supposed to, meaning that a new product comes out and there’s all sorts of hype and advertisement around it and you get people excited about the product. And yes, the price might be high on the front side, but those people that Andy and I were just talking about a moment ago. They still buy in. They pay for that upfront cost. And then as time goes by and more and more of them start to be made, the cost of making them starts to come down because the upfront design cost and that R&D gets paid for, meaning that as time goes by, the price becomes less and less and less. That’s traditionally how it’s supposed to work.
SPEAKER 19 :
Can I take a shot at where you’re going here? I won’t do the whole thing. But I think where you’re going here is because of all the subsidies, the price didn’t have to come down naturally.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, what happened is because government push and even pushed – by the way, I think you’re going to see more of this coming out. You’re already starting to see – Forced. Yeah, forced, literally. What you’re starting to see is some of these companies now ratting on the Obama-Biden administrations, talking about how they were forced. The banks are talking about how – They were forced to not do business with certain conservative groups and so on. I think you’re going to see a lot more of these bigwigs from these companies come out and say, man alive, we got into bed with the wrong people and ended up doing things that we never should have done because we were pressured by these particular administrations to do so.
SPEAKER 19 :
Well, they’re bitter, John. They want to just run their business based on supply demand, based on where the profit margin is and so forth. They don’t want to be thinking about which politician do I have to please with which product.
SPEAKER 15 :
So on EVs, what happened was because of the push in the mandate by government, because of the push in the mandate that really was then pushed upon that not only the public, but then pushed upon the manufacturers to come out and do certain things. And, you know, the cafe rating was affected by EVs and on and on we go. Carbon offsets. I mean, so many factors of it. It would take us really an hour to even explain all of the ins and outs of what was being done on the manufacturing side, which is now starting to go away. So in turn, a lot of that R&D cost, it was it was eaten in two different ways. One, through our tax dollars by giving credits out to lower the price of the actual car so people could afford to buy it. That was the first thing that was happening. Number two, there were all sorts of inside deals going on through the Washington portal, if you would, in regards to how can we help these companies offset those costs that they’re going to be incurring for a lot of this R&D. In other words, special tax deductions and things like that that they were getting to actually make a lot of this R&D happen in the first place.
SPEAKER 19 :
So not just the normal startup costs that you can write off with any business. You’re saying it went well beyond that?
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, and keep in mind that a lot of these companies like Tesla, they were actually selling some of their carbon credits and things like that, making some money on that, having that come back in to actually offset some of the R&D and so on. So lots of backdoor quote-unquote deals, Andy, to, I believe, make a lot of this stuff work on the front side because they didn’t naturally let the market do what it’s supposed to do. So now… We’ve moved into the Trump era, second term, whereby a lot of… Not a lot. This is all being eliminated. All of the tax credits for EVs federally end September 30th. There’ll be some state credits running around in certain states, those that have bought into this nonsense. You’ll have some that come out of the taxpayer wallet in places like California, Colorado, and others. But federally, that $7,500 credit is ending September 30th, meaning now, what are they going to do with the price of these cars? Because most EVs… cost far more money than their internal combustion engine counterpart because of what Andy said, technology, the upfront cost, all of those different things. It just costs more money on the front side because of a lot of that R&D to actually produce these. Now, as time goes by and you start realizing that, well, wait a minute, all they’ve got are electric motors and a big battery and a lot of electronics, the reality is they should actually be cheaper to build overall when it’s all said and done than their ICE engine counterparts.
SPEAKER 19 :
Well, what about, and I don’t know about all the costs, okay, but what about simply the cost of the minerals? I mean, it’s enormous.
SPEAKER 15 :
The battery costs, and again, but this is something that has actually come down, is the cost of the batteries and the infrastructure of those is coming down as time goes by. I was reading something the other day to where it used to be $1,000 per kilowatt hour stored. It’s come all the way down to $100 per kilowatt hour stored, meaning there’s been a huge drop in that. And there’s goals where they would like to get that down to $10 a kilowatt hour, meaning if they do that, battery costs drop, as you can tell, significantly. So they are compensating. And by the way, that’s all coming down not just from EV use, but from every electronic device you use that’s powered by a battery. Your phone, your laptop, everything that you use is a factor in that.
SPEAKER 19 :
Okay, but are you talking about the holding of the energy, you know, lowering the cost of the batteries and the rare earth minerals? Or are you talking about lowering the cost of creating the energy, the electricity?
SPEAKER 15 :
Because I know you could do that, obviously, through coal. Not creating the energy, but storing the energy. Those costs have come down, which most people don’t realize this, but rare earth metals have actually dropped in price significantly from what they once were because of some of the things that now I’m talking about. Okay. Regardless of all of that. What do EVs do now price-wise? Because they’re literally at this point in time – this is the struggle that the market’s going to have. Because you take away – in certain states, Colorado, it’s been about $11,000 as far as the tax credits go. You now take that out, or it’s $3,500 only with Colorado. You take the $7,500 away. In a lot of cases, it’s going to put that car out of reach for a lot of people. They’ll just go say, wait a minute, if I can go buy its gas engine counterpart, and yeah, maybe I don’t get some of the technology that’s in the EV. But for most people that aren’t an early adopter, Andy, like we were talking about a moment ago, they don’t really care. At the end of the day, it’s all about the price of the car. It’s a tool to get them from A to B. And at the end of the day, if they can go buy something else much cheaper, they will. Right. And that’s the challenge right now for EVs, because that credit’s going away. Right, that’s going away. And their R&D costs haven’t been covered yet, is my point.
SPEAKER 19 :
Oh, they haven’t been covered.
SPEAKER 15 :
Shoot, no, not even close.
SPEAKER 19 :
To what degree can they eat the cost of that? I think they can eat this. I don’t know what their profit margins are.
SPEAKER 15 :
I think to a certain degree, and this is my prediction, you’re going to see a lot of EVs have great financing deals, meaning you’ll be able to buy an EV for 0% financing, some things like that. So they’ll get creative on that end of things. And the reason they can do that is because most of these companies own their own car finance arm as well. meaning that that one will be zero, but all of the other ICE engine vehicles that they’re selling will be at 5%, 6%, 7%, 8%, whatever it is, depending upon credit rating and so on. So the reality is they collectively can afford to take this batch of cars they’re selling over here and go ahead and do a zero interest rate and still be fine.
SPEAKER 19 :
Because they’re just loaning out of their own money.
SPEAKER 15 :
They’re just loaning out of their own money. And given the fact they’re making so much more on everything else, so they take a little hit over here. That’s one way I think they’re going to deal with the pricing on EVs is through the finance structure.
SPEAKER 19 :
What about what I’ve been kind of predicting, and that is the rise of hybrids?
SPEAKER 15 :
Oh, those are already there. That’s already been happening.
SPEAKER 19 :
I know. I just think it’s going to continue.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, that’s not going anywhere. It’ll continue to do the same thing. That’s not going to go anywhere at all. Toyota owns that market. Some others have gotten into it. And we’ve had this debate. I’ve had this debate with some listeners out there. The EV market’s not going away. Believe me, these companies have invested billions upon billions of dollars on EVs. They’re not going to go away. There is still a certain segment of the population that enjoys them. Those that have found the advantages in owning them understand that, and they’re still going to continue to sell them. In fact, what you might actually see is now that there’s no more government push, And they can actually then be marketed and sold for what they really are, which for some people, it’s fast, it’s convenient, and there’s more technology. So you take certain individuals where they can understand that aspect of things. They’re still going to be buyers for EVs in that particular end of things.
SPEAKER 19 :
Okay, that’s actually where I was going next. And if you want to answer this question after the break, that’d be great. Or now would be great, too.
SPEAKER 15 :
We’re good. Keep going.
SPEAKER 19 :
Here’s the question. I want John Rush to think of being 20 years in the future. and look back at the great disruption of having all these government bennies taken away from electric vehicles, people predicted it would crash them. What do you predict? It’s 20 years from now. You’re looking back. What surprised people? What do you think is actually going to happen?
SPEAKER 15 :
Some companies won’t make it. Some will be absorbed by others. Their EV divisions may be absorbed by others. You take, for example, Stellantis, which is out of… Italy, they own Dodge and Ram and Jeep and so on. And at the end of the day, they have really just sort of dipped their toes into the EV world. They’ve not done that very well at all. That’s a company that I would predict they probably take either some of their technology and shelve it, or maybe they sell that off to somebody else, sell the electric. They don’t have enough to even be a division. That’s a company that most likely won’t be selling EVs. Now, 20 years from now, that’s a whole different deal. But now, currently, in the next two to three years, I see them jumping ship on EVs altogether.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah, I agree. What I’m also wondering, though, is will some companies leap forward in their innovation?
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, Ford is a great example.
SPEAKER 19 :
All because they’re being forced to. And one last thing, John. Electricity. the cost thereof I think could be going down. And the reason is you’ve got Donald Trump out there saying we must double our electric output quickly just because of AI. Well, if you want to double it because of AI, that’s also going to benefit electric cars.
SPEAKER 15 :
I’m going to talk about that in regards to Excel and so on later in the show as well. But as far as all of that goes, yes, and Andy could be right. And just back to some of these different companies, Ford, for example, I really felt like Ford might be one of those that – folds its EV division and does something else, but yet they just announced last week whereby they’ve got a new truck coming out that’s going to be very economical. It’s going to be very handy to own. It’ll be sort of a modular design where you’ll be able to get it in multiple different configurations, if you would, all starting in the $30,000 range or so, meaning that, yeah, that becomes very affordable for a lot of people that would use a daily delivery-type truck and things like that. And here’s the reality, and most people don’t realize this, Because of the way we forced EVs, people kind of forgot that, well, you’re taking my freedom away. Well, OK, well, let’s stop for a moment. First of all, no, they’re not. I get it. The whole conspiracy of EVs and they could shut them off at any time. And, you know, why would you ever want to own one? So, folks, let me just give you something as a car guy. They can do that with almost any new car you own. So with the telematics and things that are in new cars, it’s not just EVs they could make not run. It’s practically the majority of the fleet on the road today. If they really wanted to stop you from driving, they could remotely shut a lot of these off overnight.
SPEAKER 19 :
John, all you got to do is stop the flow of oil.
SPEAKER 15 :
Well, you can do that. But I mean, even just electronically in the car itself, because that was the big conspiracy from our side is why would you want to own an EV? They’ll just shut it off tomorrow if they want to. Well, they could do that with a lot of cars, Andy, not just EV. So that story to me never went anywhere because they can do that in multiple ways anyway. So even to your point, Andy, there’s other ways to even make that happen, even on gasoline powered vehicles. So that’s kind of the least of my worry. But what most people don’t understand or don’t think about is the average person doesn’t travel beyond a 50-mile radius the majority of the year. In other words, if you don’t have family that’s out of town and you don’t go visit two or three times a year, and even if you do go visit two or three times a year, you’re traveling outside of your 50-mile radius two or three times a year for most people, Andy. I would bet you that 70% to 80% of people don’t travel beyond a 50-mile radius on a routine basis.
SPEAKER 19 :
Okay, yeah, that’s actually true.
SPEAKER 15 :
They’re within 50 miles for the majority of the year, probably at least 48 weeks of the year, they’re within 50 miles, and most people think, well, you give me an EV, you’re taking my freedom away. You’re not going anywhere anyway, so what do we just take away? You don’t travel 50 miles outside of your radius anyway, so no offense, nobody’s taking anything away because you don’t do it anyways. Right. And if you do, you’re like me and I go get on an airplane if I want to go someplace. I’m not driving anywhere. Those days are gone, Andy. I am not driving anywhere anymore. I’m not going to sit behind the wheel of a car all day long. I do that enough already. I’m a little different.
SPEAKER 19 :
I like road trips, but I’ve always been that way.
SPEAKER 15 :
But in defense of you, you don’t drive down here back and forth six days a week either.
SPEAKER 19 :
Very true.
SPEAKER 15 :
Meaning if you did, you may not want to drive on vacation.
SPEAKER 19 :
I’m a little weird. I mean, I used to drive up to Blackhawk and back. But no, no, I understand for most people. Absolutely. That’s the way it’s trending.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct. And yet the first thing you hear from conservatives is, you know, you’re taking my freedom away. Well, no, and I get it. The push from government sure made it seem that way, and they were taking some freedoms away. They were taking your freedom away to choose what you wanted to buy as a car because of their mandates. That I wholeheartedly agree with, and that’s why they didn’t work. Any time you tell, especially a capitalistic society, that you can’t do something or you have to do something, the opposite will happen, Andy. You can’t drink anymore. Prohibition. Well, guess what everybody did? They drank. They drank. And NASCAR was formed out of the moonshine running that went on back in the day because they were trying to outrun the cops because they were running illegal shine all over the place. So the reality is they created something that might not even exist today had they not gone that direction. So you tell somebody they can’t have something, and guess what happens? They have it anyways. Now, let’s do the opposite. Andy, you have to buy this. Now what do they do? I hate it. I’m not buying it. Right. Because I’m not doing what you tell me to do.
SPEAKER 19 :
John, it’s the thing I always say with the party of choice. People don’t want to be controlled.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right. They resent it. They hate it. Right. So why hasn’t government figured that out yet? I say government. It was the left of government that really pushed all of these EV mandates, basically telling people this. This is what you’re going to drive. You have no choice. This is it. Figure it out. Oh, yeah, we’re going to incentivize you with a little bit of kickback here on this money end of things. But at the end of the day, Andy, this is what you’re going to drive.
SPEAKER 19 :
Right.
SPEAKER 15 :
How did that work out?
SPEAKER 19 :
Not well.
SPEAKER 15 :
No, it hasn’t. It has not worked out well.
SPEAKER 19 :
You know, there’s one last thing, and maybe once again after the break.
SPEAKER 15 :
Go right ahead.
SPEAKER 19 :
I am really concerned, though, about these electric cars not helping pay for the roads.
SPEAKER 15 :
Well, and in some states like Colorado, there’s an offset or there is a tax that is charged on each renewal. Unfortunately, all of that money doesn’t go directly to the road tax. They actually take, as usual, state of Colorado for the 50 bucks a year that people are paying. They steal. They steal half of that, and it goes someplace else other than to the road tax. But that’s not by the choice of the EV owner. The EV owner is still paying the $50 every year, which, by the way, if you look at the tax on what most people would pay throughout the year on buying their gasoline, it’s about the same. It’s pretty close. So whoever came up with that figure wasn’t too far off when it was all said and done.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah, but I want it all put toward the roads. I’m not down on the EV owner.
SPEAKER 15 :
Because they didn’t make that decision. The state of Colorado signed that off. There you go.
SPEAKER 19 :
That’s what I’m mad at.
SPEAKER 15 :
Absolutely, because they’re not doing that correctly, and it all should go to the road tax. I’m all with that, Andy, absolutely. All right, up next, veteran windows and doors. Speaking of saving money and being innovative and even controlling your energy costs and so on, you can do that, by the way, with your windows. Dave Bancroft can show you how when it comes to your windows and doors. Find him at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 15 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate, Charlie Grimes, of course. And, you know, Andy, the one thing that I think that even a lot of folks that are on the conservative side of the aisle when it comes to EVs, what they’ve missed is the fact that, number one, most of them, when they talk about them in… I’ll just be straight up honest. They’re clueless because they’ve never owned one. So they really have no idea what they’re really even talking about. Most of them don’t even understand the basics of how they work, how they operate, the technological advancements that are there, how well they perform and so on. Oh, yeah. They’re 100 percent clueless. And yet they’re, quote unquote, experts in technology. EVs. Well, nothing could be farther from the truth. And by the way, the same happens on the left. The left will talk about this and claim to be experts and so on. And they, too, will talk about this in a way where they’re not experts because they don’t own one either. So it happens on both sides of the aisle.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah, well, and also people on the left who say EVs are the all of everything, they want to ignore the fact that we’re having to carve out whole mountains basically for the rare earth minerals for those enormous batteries. Look, all kinds of cars have a cost.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 19 :
You know, and same with ice engines, of course. Sorry, internal combustion engines.
SPEAKER 15 :
We get it. I’m sorry.
SPEAKER 19 :
No, you’re fine. I know, but when you say ICE, everybody thinks you’re deporting them.
SPEAKER 15 :
I know, you’re deporting cars. No, ICE engines.
SPEAKER 19 :
I don’t want to deport cars.
SPEAKER 15 :
In this case, everything in this conversation involving ICE means internal combustion engine. It is not ICE, the agency.
SPEAKER 19 :
Okay, thank you. But I will say this. For those who are anti-electric car, I’m going to give them one bit of kudos. Not that I agree, because a car is a car, and it’s just a different piece of technology that moves it. It’s obviously more explosive than an ICE is going to be. But it’s very expensive in some other ways. I get all that. But I do understand why they hate it, and it’s very simply this. Everything that you were just saying, they were robbed blind with their taxes to pay for these, and they were told you must get these.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 19 :
When you tell people you must have them and when you take everybody’s taxes to help pay for the cars that a few people are using, I don’t blame everybody, at least initially, for being angry about that.
SPEAKER 15 :
I don’t either, Andy.
SPEAKER 19 :
But going forward, I personally think we can all be really happy. Why? Well, we’re not being robbed anymore. Thank you, Donald Trump. And yet the engines are still available.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 19 :
Great. Win-win to me.
SPEAKER 15 :
I don’t see the problem. And I think the other thing that’s going to be a win for everybody that maybe you think this is a win, maybe you don’t. I think it is, is the technological pieces that have come out of even the EV end of things will start working its way even into the gas engine. sides of things meaning that a lot of what was developed for you know evs will end up working its way into the regular everyday car a lot like the racing world you know the left of course for years and years has always been against racing you know it’s polluting it does this it does that it’s awful what they don’t understand is if we hadn’t had racing over all of these years half of what you own on your car might not exist because the racing world and how how innovative they are has created a lot of what we see in a modern vehicle today
SPEAKER 19 :
John, there’s no real value in going to the moon, and yet how much technology have we gotten out of that?
SPEAKER 15 :
A ton, Andy.
SPEAKER 19 :
That has affected all of our lives.
SPEAKER 15 :
A ton. It’s no different than racing in the automotive world. Or those of you that ride bicycles, it’s the same with guys that race bicycles. And those of you that swim and you look at the gear that these racers have worn. swimming that now makes it into the everyday world from goggles to, I mean, you name it, Andy, all of those sorts of things where people may not like the extreme of that particular world. In fact, they’re always like, why would some nut job even do that? Well, it’s that nut job that’s actually making your everyday use of an item better.
SPEAKER 19 :
So when I wear that swimming gear in my day-to-day life, it’s okay.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, exactly. Go right for it, Andy. Go right ahead. I’ve gotten in a lot of trouble. He’s got his goggles on and his nose plug in now. Speedo. No, I mean, but seriously, we laugh at some of that, but the reality is from guys that do extreme mountain climbing and the ropes and the hooks and the boots and the clothing and the things that they use, which then work their way down into the everyday person. I mean, Andy and Charlie knows this as well. I mean, just look at the clothing. that we now get to wear in our ages that when we go back 50 years ago, Andy, and it’s no wonder we were all cold in the snow because everything back then sucked as far as what you wore. Exactly. Look at where we’re at today, even in the clothing end of things.
SPEAKER 19 :
John, you’re hauling some stuff in a pickup and you tie it down. With the stuff you do that today, do you realize that mountain climbers advance?
SPEAKER 15 :
Exactly. Exactly. There’s nothing wrong with it. We look at all of these different things where some, the left especially, will say, why would anybody want to go do that? Why would anybody want to race a car? That looks like the most dangerous thing, and all you’re doing is polluting, and this, that, and the other, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, at the end of the day, it’s that person taking that risk, literally risking their life to do what they’re doing, that at the end of the day, you as a lefty will benefit from.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah. Those people who push the bounds… They benefit all of us. And this is something that, let’s face it, at its basic level of politics, this is the one thing the left will never understand because they want us all leveled.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 19 :
They hate success. They hate anybody outdoing anybody else.
SPEAKER 15 :
Carbon fiber. A lot of people think about carbon fiber today, and it’s in a lot of areas of our life today that nobody really even thought about. Carbon fiber came out of the racing world. They wanted something that was lighter, stronger, and makes the car faster because any time you take weight away, it makes things faster. And yet it was as tough as steel that they were using prior. In fact, in some cases, Andy, tougher than the steel and aluminum they were using before. So those are some of the things where a lot of times I think even us on the right, we sort of get like not bent out of shape, but we just always question, you know, why would somebody do XYZ? Why? Well, it’s that X, Y, Z that’s making your day-to-day life better.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah, I think the big difference is this. I think the people on the left hate excellence. Yes. The people on the right hate being robbed.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 19 :
And so I think the people on the right, for the most part, simply get angry that because I’ve been robbed, robbed, robbed, robbed, robbed all these years for electric motors, now I resent electric motors.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 19 :
It’s like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Trump just fixed the rob part.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct. So don’t be so against them is the thing.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 15 :
Take it. It’s just a product. Enjoy it. Take the vehicle for what the vehicle is and take all of this other ancillary stuff that you’ve really sort of gotten angst against. Take all of that away and start looking at vehicles for what, in this particular case, those vehicles for what they actually are. All right, let’s do this. We’ll take a quick timeout. We’ll come back. And by the way, I appreciate you all listening to us, as we always say. And again, all of you listening, thank you very much. Our sponsors, by the way, they are the people that actually make this happen on a daily basis. Without them, we don’t exist. And I was talking about that earlier, but when it comes to the finance end of things, Golden Eagle Financial, Al Smith, he’s always here to help you with all of your financial needs. Give Al a call today. You can find him, GoldenEagleFinancialKLZRadio.com.
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SPEAKER 14 :
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SPEAKER 15 :
And we are back. Rush to Reason, Debra’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate. We had a caller call in and say that in their right mind, there’s no way they could buy an EV vehicle just because of the slave labor involved in a lot of the mining and so on. And I’m going to be as kind as I can in saying this. then don’t buy anything else that has a lithium battery in it because the reality is all of the things that we use on a daily basis, anything you have with a battery from probably the cell phone you were calling in on is in that same boat. Now, do EVs use more of it? Absolutely they do. But when you look at all of the cell phones and a lot of the other rechargeable batteries that are used out there in a day-to-day life, from flashlights to you name it, to go out and say, I won’t buy an EV because of the way things are mined, And I’m trying to be nice, but that’s a foolish statement because a lot of the other things that you’re buying in your world already contain that anyways. Now, do I agree with the way that’s done? Absolutely not. And that needs to be changed. We could bring a lot of that stuff back home, which we can. We’ve got the ability to do some of that here. We can recycle and all sorts of other things we can do along those lines. And by the way. The next thing I think will happen is you’re going to see battery technology get to the point where you’re most likely not going to even need some of that lithium and things that we’re mining right now. I think that’s going to be and that’s where we have to be careful even in bringing things home. Don’t bring it home and then miss the wave whereby we mine things that are no longer needed.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah. And if I may, before we go to John, I would also point… I agree with the caller on that. I don’t like that slave labor is used for a lot of the products, by the way, not just batteries.
SPEAKER 15 :
The t-shirt you’re wearing, probably.
SPEAKER 19 :
Yeah, probably. But… I’m going to point my finger at the left. It is the left that has shut down mining in state after state after state after state here in America where there is no slave labor, there is no child labor, and if we were to unleash mining, by the way, Donald Trump is looking to do that, if we unleash mining here in America, guess what goes away? Slave labor.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right. No, fully agree. John, you’re next. Go ahead, John. Hey, guys. How are you, sir? Did I lose you?
SPEAKER 05 :
No, you’re good. You’re here. Oh, I’m good. Um… Right now, and this wasn’t what I called about, there’s a new lithium mine or rare earth mine opening up in northern Wyoming. They found a whole bunch of this stuff there, and they’re building a mine. They’ve already broken ground on it. I had heard that.
SPEAKER 15 :
I didn’t really have broken ground, so thank you for that.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. It was Cowboy State Daily had an article about it last week, maybe. But we were talking about advances in technology that have come from different things. The military, GPS. The first ones to use GPS for navigation was the Army.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, the military in the early 90s. Now, does anybody not have a GPS that they know how to use?
SPEAKER 15 :
No.
SPEAKER 05 :
But I was just thinking about when you were talking about advancements, the pack I carried in the military… When I was in the 80s, when I was young and in better shape, you know, weighed probably 45 to 60 pounds, depending on how long. I went out on a three-night, four-day backpack, and my pack weighed 35 pounds. Just the increases in, you know, the stays in the pack, it’s an internal… are carbon fiber. My trekking poles are carbon fiber.
SPEAKER 15 :
And that’s one, as I was saying earlier, John, thank the auto industry for that one, or the racing auto industry for that one.
SPEAKER 19 :
For me, it’s several hundred pounds, but I have to bring my TV and fridge. I want to be pampered.
SPEAKER 05 :
John, can I ask Andy a question? Sure. It’s dangerous. Andy. Yeah. So here’s my question for you. You know, the Army and the Marines sleep under the stars, and the Navy navigate by the stars. Is it true that the Air Scouts use stars to find their hotels?
SPEAKER 19 :
Well, actually, they use the stars to find their resorts. But it’s close, yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, that’s true. We like to rough it.
SPEAKER 19 :
And by the way, we rough it in some of the more moderately priced resorts, just so you know. So the Air Force is pretty tough.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, you are.
SPEAKER 19 :
Sometimes the golf courses aren’t even that good.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s just fun to pick on the Air Force, John.
SPEAKER 15 :
I understand. Fully understand.
SPEAKER 05 :
One other thing real quick. You were talking about EVs. Yeah, and I totally agree with you. There’s a place for EVs. But my question to you is, how much once the subsidies are gone do you think they’re going to try to bring the prices down?
SPEAKER 15 :
I don’t think they can. That was what we were talking about a little bit ago, John, is I don’t really feel like the manufacturers can lower the price as much because they’re already losing money. They were losing money even with the tax credits and things like that that were already coming in. So the reality is I don’t see them lowering them. They’re going to have to figure out a way to – through financing, like I said earlier, where they do some zero percent, some things along those lines, enticing people to buy it over a regular engine vehicle. And then they’re going to have to do a better job, which they’ve not. They’ve been lazy. They’ve been lazy because government forced things. And when you force something, that means the company selling it even gets lazy on the marketing and the innovativeness of that end of it. And what I mean by that, John, is you’ve rarely heard besides me. anybody out there, including the manufacturers, talk about the pros of owning an EV. I mean, they’ll give you one little snippet of this, that, or the other, but at the end of the day, no one’s ever gone into great deal marketing-wise as to why you should own one. Shame on them, but they didn’t have to because government was forcing it.
SPEAKER 05 :
My daughter and her husband had an EV, and the previous owners of the house they bought was a welder. So he had a 240-wired 50-amp outlet in his garage. So they were able to just plug in, I think that’s a level 2 charger.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yes, that’s correct.
SPEAKER 05 :
That goes into the 240.
SPEAKER 15 :
That’s correct.
SPEAKER 05 :
And she loved it. They also have solar. So they put that thing in, and they missed it. It was one of the Hyundais with the bad recall.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
And because of the California lemon laws, they were able to turn it back in and get their money back.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right, drove a free car, basically.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. So they bought an ICE vehicle again because they just needed something that wasn’t bad on gas mileage. When you’re paying over $5 a gallon in California for gas, you try to get vehicles that run on good mileage. But, you know, there’s a place for EVs. Like, where I live, it wouldn’t be practical.
SPEAKER 15 :
No.
SPEAKER 05 :
because I would need the lightning truck or something just for the high ground clearance.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 05 :
But I would love to get my wife one for her commute to Denver Airport and back, because that would be the perfect vehicle to get 250 miles out of it, or she could charge it while she’s working at the airport. That’s a perfect vehicle for her. That’s a good idea. Yeah.
SPEAKER 15 :
No, you’re right.
SPEAKER 19 :
You know, I have one really quick for both of you. I have one concern, and that is replacing the battery. When it does go out, it’s so expensive. Do you think those costs could come down?
SPEAKER 15 :
Yes. And there’s companies out there that are already working in the aftermarket to do just that from the Tesla side to others. And, yeah, as time goes by, you’ll see aftermarket companies come up. And even a lot of the hybrids now have aftermarket batteries available for them driving the costs, you know,
SPEAKER 05 :
you know considerably down from what they were originally so yes that’ll happen over time absolutely so then my last question john and all is the toyota still the cream of the crop for the hybrid absolutely yeah that’s what i thought absolutely yep because we’re looking at we’re looking at upgrading one of our vehicles and i was looking at uh sequoia And it’s got a hybrid in it. And that is a nice truck. Yep, top of the line.
SPEAKER 15 :
Absolutely. Yep, absolutely. John, I’ll let you go. I’m going to squeeze Jeff in here before we go to break. Jeff, go ahead.
SPEAKER 18 :
Hey, John.
SPEAKER 15 :
How you doing, bud? Good, sir.
SPEAKER 18 :
Good. Just talking about the EVs. I just purchased. Well, I’m driving right now. I got $17,771 on my LEAF.
SPEAKER 15 :
Great.
SPEAKER 18 :
I did. I picked up the LEAF. What I just found out, and I didn’t know, I was at the dealership actually a couple days ago, and they were saying that the scrap yards are not taking the electrics, a lot of them aren’t.
SPEAKER 15 :
No, they won’t because of the battery sides of things and so on. There’s more to the chassis and that with the battery than there is the rest of the vehicle, so they’ll have to figure out ways to eliminate the battery to then scrap the rest of the car, and I’m guessing most of them aren’t equipped to do that at this point.
SPEAKER 18 :
No, no, yeah, that’s something we haven’t got.
SPEAKER 15 :
No, haven’t got that. That’s the other thing in this that has to happen at some point.
SPEAKER 18 :
And it will. But other than that, like I said, I know you own…
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, I love it. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, no complaints whatsoever. Jeff, got to run to break. Thank you, by the way, though. Thanks for the update. And yeah, in fact, most people that own one, as you heard even from John from Cheyenne, most people that own one will not talk bad about one, no matter what side of the aisle they come from politically. Because once you own one and realize how how actually they work and they work very well and they’re very convenient and so on. Once you learn that, you’re sort of like, oh, okay, I can get this. In fact, I’ll go buy another one. So we’ll talk more about that as we get into Gregory Wrightstone here this next hour. Paul Leuenberger, speaking of insurance, now one thing you need to check on before buying an EV is typically their insurance cost may be, not always, but may be higher than a regular ICE engine, internal combustion engine engine. Paul can help you with all of that, 303-662-0789.
SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 15 :
And we are back, just finishing up this first hour. Again, next hour, Gregory Wrightstone going to join us. And he is from the CO2 Coalition, author of A Very Convenient Warming. We’ll come right back and talk to him. Myself, Andy, and Charlie don’t go anywhere. Hour two is next. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you. I’m a rich guy.
