From AI technology driving market optimism to the global push for nuclear energy, Gunderson covers it all. Discover how geopolitical tensions and economic policy changes are shaping investor sentiment. Additionally, as the EV market braces for the end of federal tax credits, we analyze the potential ramifications and opportunities this holds for the future. Tune in for a comprehensive discussion on these pressing issues and more.
He’s been seen on CNBC, the Fox News Channel, and the Fox Business Channel. His articles can be found on MarketWatch, Seeking Alpha, thestreet.com, and many other places. He’s the author of the weekly Best Stocks Now newsletter and the inventor of the Best Stocks Now app. He’s president of Gundersen Capital Management. Here is professional money manager Bill Gundersen.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome to today’s Best Docs Now show on this 9-11 anniversary and post-Charlie Kirk assassination day. Quite an event happening yesterday. The markets are up so far. This is Bill Gunderson, president of Gunderson Capital Management. In fact, the markets are up a lot right now. I’m guessing that’s the CPI number. The Dow’s up 444 points. That’s a new all-time high there. 45,934. The NASDAQ hitting a new all-time high, up 95 points after yesterday’s big gain with the Oracle news. The NASDAQ is up 0.5%, up 107 points, and the S&P 500 is up 60 basis points right now. That’s 37 points. A new all-time high across the board. The trifecta, the S&P 500, the Dow Jones Industrial Average, and the NASDAQ. The S&P is at 65.69. The bond market, we’ve got the 10-year down. I saw it at 4.02% this morning, down from 4.05% yesterday. Gold is down today for the first time in a while. Gold is down at $3,669 after hitting a new all-time high yesterday. So welcome to today’s Best Stocks Now show with professional money manager Bill Gunderson, president of Gunderson Capital Management. uh… and i’m here with the very kind our chartered financial analyst and uh… we’re here mostly on uh… the salem radio network uh… and a few other channels uh… here and there but uh… also was the home to what charlie kirk who i was a fan i listened to charlie kirk almost on a daily basis along with other talk show host i’ve always been a talk show uh… fanatic since i was a little guy i remember Seven, eight years old, I was listening to talk radio and dodge a baseball with Vin Scully. I’ve always been enamored by the radio waves, I suppose. And, you know, we’ll see what happens with, you know, Charlie’s show. And I think the movement moves on and goes forward. You just don’t replace a guy like that who was really bigger than life and quite a charismatic guy. Well, we’re going to just move on with business as usual. The markets are hitting new all-time highs. The news on the economy, you know, maybe a little bit on the soft side, especially in the labor markets. But, Barry, we’re in that period of time when bad news is good news. As we get ready for a Fed decision next week, we’ll be in the Bay Area next week when that Fed decision happens. I even saw a Jeffries analyst making a case for a 75-point loss. Would you take that? Would you take 75 points? Yeah, just give it all at once, right?
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, we’re looking at those percentage chances yesterday in terms of whether by the end of the year we get three cuts. There were some that were up there at maybe four. Yeah, if we get the three cuts, 75 basis points, we’ll just get it all at once, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, let’s just get it over with for the year and the Fed can go home and take the rest of the year off.
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, right now there’s a 74% chance of basically the end of the year. 74% of the market thinks this is people actually putting money on the future. This isn’t just opinion, right? Putting their money where their amount is. This is a 74% chance that we’re in the range of 350 to 3.75%. percent by the end of the year, which would be three cuts.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, look, the ECB, they left rates alone today, but they’re at 2%. We’re at 4%. We’re double what the ECB is, and there’s just no question, and with all of these weak labor reports that we’ve seen lately, and the revisions downwards, somebody wasn’t telling the truth, in my opinion, in 2024. When you revise downwards by almost a million jobs created, that’s pretty bad. That doesn’t reflect very well on the truthfulness and honesty there of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. unless it’s just not an easy number to gather. But I think that the jobs market is pretty weak, and that just proves that Jerome Powell is way behind the curve. Now, was he getting accurate numbers? Maybe he was getting the fudge numbers. Do they do their own numbers? I don’t know the answer to that question. Okay, yesterday we had Oracle’s earnings report, which really lit a fire underneath the market. And guess who did move into the world’s richest? Bernie Sanders is going to have to change his speech. No longer is Elon Musk. The world’s richest man, a multi-billionaire, but it’s now Larry Ellison from Oracle, which, you know, that’s quite a move in one day. That stock was up almost 40% yesterday, which is just unheard of for a company that big. And we did see all-time highs yesterday on the S&P and the NASDAQ yesterday, not the Dow. But now we’re seeing new all-time highs across the board. Today is also 9-11, and I do remember where I was on 9-11. I was getting ready for work to drive up to the firm that I worked for in this industry up in the Carlsbad, California area. And as I was getting ready to leave, I turned on the TV to see where the futures were at. Instead, I saw a burning building in New York City, the first burning building. And, you know, the news was that a small plane had crashed into it. That was the initial report, a small plane. I thought, well, that’s a heck of a fire. Which had happened in the past, you know, an accident at one point. Yes, and I think there was maybe a helicopter or something.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, something, right.
SPEAKER 03 :
And then as I was watching the live broadcast, I saw a – they were showing both towers. We saw the big jumbo jet crash into the other tower. And then you knew something nefarious had happened, and it was a little bit later. President George Bush was down in Florida, I believe, speaking at an elementary class or something like that. And when they whispered into his ear what had happened, and he kept just telling the story. He was telling the kids. It was like he was just dumbfounded, overwhelmed by what had just happened. Okay, ECB holds interest rate steady at 2%, Jerome, as expected. And, of course, we’re at 4%, which seems a little bit odd to me. But we are seeing rates move down on their own without the Fed. 4%, 4.02% today. That’s the lowest all year. We were up around 5%. At the beginning of the year, we’ve come down about 100 basis points. And I think that, once again, I’ll say it again, that I think our Treasury Secretary Besson, who knows the financial markets well, has been very helpful in being a good salesman for the bond market, selling those bonds and driving those interest rates lower. And that obviously is starting to show up in mortgage applications, which we saw a big jump in mortgage applications as the 30-year mortgage finally is down below 6.5. It’s at 6.4. Okay, we got the PPI yesterday. It’s pretty hard to believe that Japan has a hotter PPI. Japan’s numbers were 2.7 today on their PPI. They haven’t had inflation for decades, and all of a sudden they’ve got inflation. Our CPI comes in at 2.9, which matched the consensus, but it did advance from 2.7. the prior month, and if I’m not mistaken, it looked like it was airfares and eggs. Were those the two culprits in keeping that CDI at 2.9?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I saw something where airfares, I think, were up, I don’t know, 5.5% or so. I know the airfares out to the West Coast when we were going out there next week weren’t the most palatable, but that is what it is. We’ve got to get out there. But on the inflation front, I think the core came in as expected. It wasn’t anything unexpected. where it was an overly hot CPI, and then when you couple that with the weekly jobless claims up in the 260 range, even though there could be some data issues with that one, like you said, I think it puts the Fed in a position to be able to do some cutting.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, but at the same time, the Fed’s target is 2%. That’s what they aim for, and it’s still 2.9%. So next week, I mean, it’s going to be a delicate kind of a tradeoff. A larger cut, 50 basis points, would risk further inflation pressure. A smaller one may not be enough to provide enough support for a weakening labor market. So there’s the conundrum that we face as we go into a Fed meeting next week. Okay, we’ll be right back. We also got initial jobless claims and a lot of individual stocks in the news once again today. We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 1 :
We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back here to the second quarter of today’s Best Stocks Now show. And the other side of that inflation equation is the jobs market. That’s what you have to balance. If you wait too long to cut interest rates, you know, you’re already going into a recession. And where does a recession first show up? I think it’s fair to say the labor markets, the initial jobless claims, the jobs numbers once a month on Friday, the private payroll numbers, et cetera. We watch that pretty closely. And you did get a pretty, I thought it was kind of an elevated number in the initial jobless claims, 263,000. Now, summer’s over, yes, okay, and a lot of seasonal help, especially at resorts and things like that, vacation places. So hopefully it will cool back down to the low 200,000s next week. But the jobless claims for the weekend of September 6th stood at 263,000. which is up 27,000 from last week. This is the highest level for initial jobless claims since October 23rd, 2021, Barry. That puts it in perspective. That’s four years ago. The highest initial jobless claims number in four years. I hope Jerome Powell is looking at that number. And once again, we’ll see if it’s just seasonal or if it’s getting worse out there.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, we get into the data again, right? And we’ll see if there’s a revision next week because usually most of those weeks where you have a – we had Labor Day, so most of those weeks where you have a – You know, some type of holiday, you tend to get some, you know, odd numbers, and then there ends up being some type of revision. So I guess we’ll be keeping an eye on that whenever we’re out in San Jose next week and see what happens from a data perspective. But, yeah, I mean, it is certainly a big jump and certainly much higher than the anticipated figure was, which I think was in the 230s or so.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, the highest number going back to October of 2020, that’s pretty significant number. Well, you know, how long does it take to become a billionaire? How long does it take? Ellison gained $101 billion in one day, so he obviously still owns a substantial amount of Oracle stock. Oracle is a 900, let’s see where Oracle stands right now. It’s not a trillion yet. I don’t believe it’s a trillion. Oracle is 879 billion. So he must own about 12% of the company still. He kept a lot of stock. That moved him to $393 billion yesterday. Mustangs at $385 billion. So he claims the title of the world’s richest man. Adobe will report earnings tonight. Maybe that’ll be the last real significant one as we get ready for the next round of earnings season. The quarter will end in about three weeks here, 19 days. That goes pretty quickly. And then, you know, about 10 days after that. So we’re looking at four weeks until the earnings start to roll in once again. This time it’ll be for the third quarter. of 2023 which ends in 19 days zielinski now if you believe in the defense stocks zielinski is calling for an airspace a shield much like israel has over all of europe Can you imagine how much that would cost? He calls for a joint air shield over Europe following Russia’s drone breach, which breached Poland’s airspace. And they’re warning European travel against war, European travel right now. But anyways, that is definitely a big… Maybe it was a mistake. Maybe it was an error. Maybe it wasn’t meant. It’s a test. Yeah, there is a test, right? Yeah, that’s the 19th airspace violation by Russia. But Putin sends out messages himself all the time. You know, don’t mess around. Don’t screw with me. And anyways, that… would be something to put an air shield over all of Europe. Raytheon is basically, and a few others there.
SPEAKER 06 :
Palantir could get a big contract in terms of using AI as we’re using it here.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, exactly. So it’s David Zervos at Jefferies saying there’s a cogent case for a 75 basis point rate cut. He says the main reason is the significant employment revision numbers, which justify a more aggressive rate cut. So anyways, we shall see. I don’t think we’ll even get 50. We’re going to get 25, in my opinion. But it should be 50. It should be 50. Asia markets mostly advance as China leads gains on AI optimism. And I just can’t help but notice… All of the activity around Alibaba all of a sudden, which, you know, you talk about an AI player. They’re a major AI player. Alibaba is breaking out to a new 52-week high today. It pales in comparison. It’s not a trillion-dollar company. It’s about one-half of where Oracle is in market cap, but it’s still a very formidable $346 billion company, Jack Ma, and Ant Group, which is a part of it. Ant Group also has significant investments in humanoid robots and all kinds of other things. So It’s a little bit of a venture capital type of company, but I think for me, the most attractive part of Alibaba, despite being headquartered in China and a communist country and all the rest of that, and the political risks there, the P.E. ratio is 16, which compares to an Oracle, for instance, a P.E. ratio of 54, 54 to 16. That shows you how much political risk costs the company as far as multiples go. And another comparable would be Amazon at 35 times earnings and Alibaba is at 16 times earnings. The other thing I noticed yesterday was the big advance in Oracle. I noticed a couple of stocks that went the other way. Amazon, for one. Amazon was down 2.5%, and I’m thinking that Oracle’s gain was Amazon’s loss.
SPEAKER 06 :
Could be their loss, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, absolutely. Then the other one that was down significantly yesterday, and I thought maybe it was related to Oracle, but no. It was related to the lack thereof of anything exciting coming from Apple. You know, there’s the problem that I have with Apple, and I’ve said it many, many times. There’s not much in the way of innovation coming out of Cupertino lately. I mean, it’s been years, really. And, you know, yesterday’s announcements were met with a big thud. I thought at first it was maybe related to Oracle, but no. It was the lack of any innovation in their new products, and Apple had a bad day. It was down 2.5 yesterday when the NASDAQ was hitting new all-time highs. We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 05 :
This is Bill Gunderson. Thank you for tuning in to today’s Best Stocks Now, Best Inverse Funds Now show.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, back to the second half of the show. Thank you.
SPEAKER 04 :
Because there’s something in the air
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back here to the second half of today’s Best Stocks Now show with professional money manager Bill Gunderson, president of Gunderson Capital Management. And, of course, next week we will be in the Bay Area where it’s all happening. Not at the zoo like Simon and Garfunkel. It’s happening in the Silicon Valley. Guess who’s clamoring for more nuclear power? Begging for it, Barry, the governor of New York, Hochul. I thought you were going to say the governor of California for a minute. Well, you know what? He has definitely come around. They were going to shut down Diablo Canyon nuclear power plant there in the Pismo, Avila Beach area. I’ve been fishing off of that facility for salmon with my father. And we had a nice day. We caught our limit back when there were salmon in those waters. I think they’re still there, but not like they used to be. And he has definitely warmed up more to the nuclear power. But New York, of all places, and, of course, they use a little bit of electricity in New York City and Manhattan and the surrounding areas, if you haven’t noticed. Down in Cuba, you’re getting another nationwide blackout. As the grid collapses again, 10 million residents. That is the fourth nationwide collapse in less than a year. They’re not talking nuclear power. They’d be happy with just a little bit of electricity down there from whatever their sources are. But that’s a disaster. And I did notice that those nuclear stocks yesterday on the Oracle News, because the Oracle News seemed to be pretty much data center centric. because it was the data center stocks that were definitely on fire once again yesterday, including those nuclear stocks. And it could have been Hochul’s comments on saying, hey, she even wants to get rid of the regulation, the red tape. She wants to cut the red tape in New York. In New York, you know, the red tape capital of the world.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s because they can see the writing on the wall, I mean, in terms of needing those dollars. I mean, needing that power.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, absolutely. So that’s quite a deal. Now, Mexico and China. Chinese EV cars. Now, something interesting is going to happen here in the U.S. here. that’s going to really test the EV markets. When is it? I think it’s September 30th. I want to look up that date. When you no longer get the $7,500 credit on your tax return. Will that be the death nail of the EV market? We know that there’s a lot of people rushing right now to buy an EV today. Yeah, it’s September 30th. The electric vehicle market is surging ahead of the expiration of the federal EV tax credit on September 30th. Obviously, the taxpayer, the U.S. taxpayer, has been helping subsidize the EV market, which is struggling right now. But there is clear evidence that buyers are rushing in to purchase EVs. Well, if I’m a salesman on the lot, And you’re using that all day long, right? Oh, God. Look, you’re calling anybody who’s looked at an electric vehicle in the last 90 days saying, you’ve got 19 days here to lock in that $7,500 incentive. That’s a big incentive. But I think at the end of the day, it’s going to be a tough nut to crack for the EV market losing that. Now, Mexico is threatening to put a 50% tariff on Chinese. They’re trying to penetrate and get into Mexico with the EV cars. And Trump’s putting the pressure on Mexico to go hard on China, and they’re talking a 50% tariff, Mexico, on Chinese cars. That would keep them out, basically.
SPEAKER 06 :
I did see food at home, by the way, I think was up half a percent this month on the CPI. So that, as you’ve mentioned a couple of days ago, just talking about vegetables.
SPEAKER 03 :
What about eating out? Does that mean I should eat out then?
SPEAKER 06 :
It might be more economical at the moment.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s dropping, probably. So Jack Ma’s ant group, which is part of Alibaba, unveils the first humanoid robot with medical and culinary skills. Now that’s the direction I’m going to go. The culinary skills at our house, you know, I mean, they’re okay. But if we can get a humanoid robot in there cooking up, whipping up a storm, that would be good. Goldman Sachs CEO says IPO and M&A activity is accelerating markedly. You know what? You look everywhere. The market’s hitting new highs. The Dow, the NASDAQ, the S&P 500 hitting new highs. The investment in America is swelling. You have this huge backlog that was disclosed by Oracle and all of the sales orders that they’ve got to now deliver. And you’ve got M&A activity accelerating markedly. It’s kind of hard to believe that there’s really a labor problem. with all of this going on because, I mean, that’s a pretty good backdrop. And, of course, M&A and IPOs. I’ve seen a lot of IPOs. There’s been about five or six this week. And Klarna yesterday, right? Klarna. And there’s another one that’s a pretty big one. I can’t think of it. I’ve got to add them every time to the app. So there’s been increased activity in Bill Gunderson’s office, adding, I have my own indicator on the wall here, a chalkboard, which a new IPO, a new IPO, add it to the app. It’s really picked up a lot. The NASDAQ hit 22,000. Here’s the best performers in the NASDAQ so far, 2025. Number one. I’m pretty proud of this. I was at the NASDAQ in early January. My top pick for the year was Palantir. It’s the number one performer in the NASDAQ, up 118%. What I wish I would have stayed in longer, but I took a 700% gain. I took the money and run. App Lovin’s up another 71% this year. This one surprises me. Micron’s up 64% this year. Micron’s going to report earnings in a couple of weeks. And you know, Micron is a beneficiary of AI. Even though it’s low tech, it’s flash memory for the most part. But it’s also that, is it MRAM, I believe it’s called? That’s also a big part of AI. Micron is up 65%. By the way, I also listen to, I listen to a lot of talk radio, obviously. I listen to Tucker Carlson interview the king of AI, Altman, Sam Altman. That is a fascinating interview. About an hour and a half. I mean, it got into all kinds of morals, truth, what is truth, who decides. And if you want to listen to a really good interview on AI. Okay, we’re all excited about these companies that are… What about the ramifications of AI? What’s behind AI? Who are the people behind AI? Where’s it going to lead us? To a good place? A better place? To a worse place? Definitely an interview you want to listen to. Broadcom’s number four, 56.5. IDEXX 53. DoorDash, number six, which I say is the fastest-growing restaurant franchise in the world. It’s up 52.5%. Our Constellation Energy is up 41%. And rounding out the top ten, Zscaler, Lamb Research, and KLA Corporation these days. The biggest losers in the NASDAQ this year are The Trade Desk down 61%. Lululemon down 57%. Competition finally caught up there. PayPal down 23%. Adobe down 22%. Synopsys, which just got murdered yesterday. They’re a chip designer. Down 23% year-to-date. Okay, we’ve got a couple macro calls out. I like to read and report these macro calls. We saw 7,200 yesterday from Wells Fargo. We had 6,800 from Goldman Sachs earlier in this week. Deutsche Bank splits them right down the middle and comes in at 7,000. Deutsche Bank as market recovers from tariff shock. So $7,000, and they’ve got earnings estimates of $267 this year, $277 next year. That’s on the low side as far as the analysts go. And $315 per share. By the way, those would all be record earnings numbers, and that’s why you’re seeing record earnings. numbers on the indexes because of record earnings underlying those indexes as Oracle now becomes the 10th most valuable company in the S&P 500. We’ll be right back with some smaller names here that are interesting.
SPEAKER 05 :
On a winter’s day You gotta go where you wanna go Do what you wanna do And live forever
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back here to the final segment of today’s Best Stocks Now show. Let’s just look at a few of the stocks on the move today. Synopsys is regaining 9.4% after its big drubbing yesterday. Micron, man, that thing is breaking out to new all-time highs today. Micron is going to make record earnings next year, according to the analysts, of $13.02. It’s a $169 billion company. They’re makers of DRAM, DRAM, NAND, and NOR, N-O-R, flash memory, image sensors used in computers, servers, and consumer electronics systems. And of course a lot of that goes into data center, obviously. Micron is up 7.9% today. Lamb Research, which I’ve owned many times over the years, don’t currently own it. That’s breaking out to new all-time highs today. They’re probably number two behind ASM out of the Netherlands as far as semiconductor equipment goes. Lamb Research, a very important player. $144 billion market cap company out of Fremont, California. Applied Materials is up 3.5%. So a good day for the chip equipment companies. Cadence is up 2.8%. They do semiconductor design. Tesla up 2.9%. That’s a little bit of a breakout there on Tesla. But Tesla’s earnings have been all over the place here recently. And it sports a PE of 175 right now. 175 times earnings. KLA is breaking out today. It’s up 2.7%. The Chinese stocks have been breaking out recently. Baidu has been breaking out. It’s an AI player, and it’s been around for a long time. Chinese, it’s an internet search, online advertising, maybe like a Google here in the U.S., Baidu is small at $39 billion, relatively small compared with some of the tech giants. And as we look at the S&P 500 right now, the biggest winner is a health care stock, believe it or not. They had some good news. Centene, which has just been hammered, along with UnitedHealthcare and others. CNC is up 13% today. That’s good news. Etsy is up 5.7%. Let’s see, Warner Brothers up 4.6%. AbbVie up 4%. Missing from today’s action for the most part are your Amazons, your NVIDIAs, your Netflix. In fact, Netflix is down a little bit. I think they lost a key production person there or somebody on the programming side of things at Netflix. But it’s been a big winner. Netflix has done very well in 2025. Yeah, it was Kathy Hochul. This is funny. She’s urging the federal government to speed up the approval process for new nuclear. I never thought I would hear that. But she says the state of New York confronts growing electricity demand, particularly from AI-driven data centers, which seem to be taking over the land.
SPEAKER 06 :
I wonder how quick they can do it.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t think Cuba has any way to help us out there. They can’t even keep the lights on there. Anyways, Hochul’s also mad at Trump after he halted construction on the $5 billion wind project off Long Island. New York is also considering the possibility of restarting the Indian Point nuclear facility, which closed in 2021. Okay. And that does remain feasible. Hochul said, I want more nuclear power. Well, God bless her. You know, we’re invested in nuclear stocks. You go, girl. Apple’s rating cut at Davidson after product announcements leave analysts uninspired. I talked about that in the first half of the show. That just seems to be a common theme. Announcement after announcement after announcement that the new products just aren’t exciting the public out there. Nibius is going to price $3.8 billion in debt. But a lot of these firms are going towards convertible notes, Barry, which we don’t get involved in.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, the problem there is they start ending up, if you want a bond, you want a bond. If you want a stock, you want a stock. And the problem with the convertibles is there’s a crossover at a certain point. They trade like a bond, and then once the stock price gets above a certain amount, then they start trading like a stock. Exactly.
SPEAKER 03 :
I am just not a fan, but it seems like a lot of them are going that way.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s a cheaper way to potentially finance, at least.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, it’s cheaper for them. Yeah, and, you know, you take on a little more market risk there. So, you know, unlike a bond, which doesn’t really, it has market risk, but the price of the stock means a lot when it comes to these convertible bonds. So anyways, and of course, NBIS kind of set this AI fire on Tuesday, I think it was, when they came in with a contract that was bigger than their entire market cap. Their market cap’s now $22 billion, and their contract was $17 billion. But before they got that contract, their stock, their market cap, was lower than the contract that they got. So, of course, Nibius goes to the well. They’re a Netherlands-based company, and they’re doing a convertible senior note also. Well, maybe they’re the ones I was referring to, the senior convertible note. Nebby has set this whole thing on fire on Monday. Okay, well, we’re all out of time. If you’d like to reserve a Thursday meeting with us a week from today, September the 18th, there may be a few spots left. Call Edie at 855-611-BEST, 855-611-BEST. To get a four-week trial to the newsletter, the app, the live trades, go to GundersenCapital.com. That’s GundersenCapital.com. Have a great day, everybody.
SPEAKER 02 :
This show is not a solicitation to buy or sell any securities. Bill Gunderson or clients of Gunderson Capital Management may have long or short positions in stocks mentioned during the show. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Gunderson Capital Management is a fee-based registered investment advisory firm. All accounts are held at Charles Schwab. Schwab is a member of SIPC and FINRA.
