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Join us for an extraordinary journey through time with Steve Snyder, as he recounts the harrowing yet inspiring story of his father, B-17 pilot Howard Snyder, in his book ‘Shot Down’. Discover the incredible camaraderie and unyielding spirit of WWII airmen who braved the chilling skies over Europe. Through personal anecdotes and historical context, this episode provides a unique look at the sacrifices and heroism that defined a generation. From their terrifying missions over Nazi-occupied Europe to heart-stopping moments of evasion in enemy territories, these stories offer a poignant reminder of the resilience of the human spirit.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and our other wars and conflicts. America’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. These stories will touch your heart, inspire you, and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Monson.
SPEAKER 09 :
And welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And the show began because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans to Normandy, France for the anniversary of the D-Day landings. and returned stateside realizing that these stories need to be recorded and broadcast and archived. And so here we are now with America’s Veterans Stories. And I’m really honored to have on the line with me Steve Snyder. And he’s written a book about his father, shot down the true story of pilot Howard Snyder and the crew of the B-17 Susan Roth. Steve Snyder, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you very much, Kim. Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I’m so excited that our paths have met, and this is a fascinating story. So where would you like to start, Steve?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I guess how I kind of came to write the book. Growing up, I knew the basics of my dad’s World War II history. He was a B-17 bomber pilot. He was stationed in England with the 8th Air Force. His plane was named the Susan Ruth, after my oldest sister, who was one year old at the time that he went overseas. And he flew bombing missions all over Europe. And in February of 1944, his plane was shot down. And he was missing in action for seven months. But he evaded capture and eventually made it back to his base in England. But it wasn’t until I retired in 2009 that I had the time to really delve into my dad’s history in more detail. My parents had kept a lot of material about the war years, and I just wanted to go through that and organize it and learn some more details. At that time, I had no intention at all of writing a book. And there were two items that were really significant. One was a diary that my dad wrote while he was missing in action about his plane being shot down, which is just riveting, which is in the book. And the other were all the letters that my dad had written to my mother while he was stationed in England. And he was really candid in those letters. He talked about what bombing missions were like, what life was like in London and England at the time, what life was like on the air base, escapades of his crew and him. After reading those letters, I just became fascinated with the story of my dad and his crew, and it became my passion. I started reading book after book about the air war over Europe. I went on the Internet, spent countless hours doing research, downloading declassified military documents. I wanted a quest to find relatives of all my dad’s crew, to ask them for anything that they could give to me, letters, articles, pictures. And then three years into my research, I just came to the conclusion that the story of my dad and his crew was so unique and so compelling. People needed to know about it. So I decided to write a book.
SPEAKER 09 :
Fascinating. And I’ve learned a lot over the years. I’ve interviewed about 150 World War II veterans and veterans of the Korean War, Vietnam War, other wars and conflicts. But I didn’t really I hadn’t really thought about this on those bomber planes. those old bombers, first of all, they were not pressurized cabins. They flew at significant altitudes. It was cold. I don’t think that everyday people today realize just what the conditions were like, Steve.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, that’s absolutely correct. As you said, those planes were not pressurized. So above 10,000 feet, they had to go on oxygen or else they’d pass out in a couple of minutes and die. And it was exceedingly cold at the altitudes they were flying. They would fly at around 20,000 to 25,000 feet, five miles above the ground. And the temperatures in those planes was minus 40 to 60 degrees below zero. So frostbite was a huge problem. And one of my dad’s waist gunners, John Pindrock, he was hospitalized for two and a half months. with serious frostbite injuries. So, yeah, it was an arduous task just being in those planes, let alone when they were encountered by enemy fighters or the anti-aircraft fire over the target. So it was a grooming task and exceedingly dangerous. There were 26,000 men in the 8th Air Force who were killed during the war, which is more than the entire Marine Corps fighting in the Pacific. And another 28,000 men became prisoners of war after their planes were knocked out of the sky, either by German fighters or by LA aircraft fire. So, yeah, it was, and you never knew when the next mission might be your last. Some guys were killed on their very first mission. Other men were killed on their last mission before they could go home. So what you say is absolutely correct.
SPEAKER 09 :
How many missions did your father fly before he was shot down?
SPEAKER 06 :
He had eight missions. Some of the crew had more missions than he did. Other crew members had fewer missions. The public in general thinks that these crews flew every mission together, but there were always guys getting sick or getting injured. So you had a lot of replacement crewmen that would come on when these guys were sick or injured. Over those eight missions, there were only two missions where my dad flew with his entire crew. The last one and then the one prior to that. Also, they didn’t fly the same planes all the time. On those eight missions that my dad flew, he flew five different B-17s.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and I want to just mention that you said that his plane was named after your sister who was one years old or one year old. And he shot down your mom’s back at home with a little one. Your dad’s missing in action. I don’t think that, again, everyday people just realize what the kind of the human toll that this takes, the emotion and and just what that would mean exactly for your mother.
SPEAKER 06 :
Absolutely. He was shot down on February 8th, 1944. And on February 23rd, she received a telegram from the War Department saying that he was missing in action. And actually, my other sister, Nancy, was born while my dad was missing in action. So here’s my mom back in Pasadena, California, with one-year-old Susan and infant Nancy, not knowing that she’d ever see her husband again. And there’s lots of excerpts in the book from letters written from my dad, my mother, other members of the crew. And really poignant letters are… between the mothers, the wives, the sweethearts of the crew after they were shot down. Because as you said, boy, they were just scared to death and not knowing what happened to their loved ones or if they’d ever see them. So it’s very moving, the excerpts from some of those letters that were exchanged between the women so concerned and praying for the welfare of their husband or their son.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s a remarkable generation. Let’s talk about the crew. Now I can’t remember. I think I flew on a B-17, I think, which was rather thrilling for me. But these planes were not huge. So tell us about the crew. How many were on the crew and what were their responsibilities?
SPEAKER 06 :
Sure. You’re definitely correct when you talk about the plane. From a distance, they look like they’re fairly large, but a B-17, when you get in it, it’s really cramped. It’s just like a cigar tube. It’s more cramped than a B-17 than it is in a submarine. So it was really hard to move around. You have to kind of crawl down into the nose of the plane. But a B-17 had a 10-man crew. There were four officers. The pilot, which was my dad, and as such, the commander of the plane and the crew. Then you had the co-pilot, the bombardier, and the navigator. Those were the four officers. And then you had six enlisted men. They’re non-commissioned officers who were mainly gunners. You had a A flight engineer, a top turret gunner, two waist gunners, a radio operator, a ball turret gunner, and a tail gunner. And so they learned to operate as a team and became very close-knit and tight.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and let’s talk about the gunners. And so when they got to a point where they were going to man the guns, it was very cramped to get up into these areas where the guns were. And so explain what a waist gunner is, the top turret. Just explain what those gunners are exactly.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Well, the gunners, they were typically 18, 19 years old. The officers were in their 40s. early 20s. My dad was an old guy. He was actually 28, so they called him Grandpa or Pops. But, you know, the gunner positions were very cramped, especially the ball turret gunner, which was underneath the belly of the plane. And he had… These missions lasted six to ten hours, so they were very arduous and tiring. But the ball turret gunner was kind of curled up in a fetal position underneath the plane for hours on end, so that was very uncomfortable. Another really cramped position was the tail gunner kind of sat in that little bicycle seat that he would sit on but then kneel on his knees, so that was uncomfortable as well. And the two waist gunners, they stood up on each side of the plane. There was a window. In the early part of the war, the B-17, the windows were open, so you had that freezing cold air just pouring into the plane. And the later model, B-17G model, they put plexiglass over that, so it wasn’t quite as bad. But it was really… Stuff going in those. And then they always had to have their head on a swivel, as it were, to be looking for enemy planes, it might appear. Because another thing that was really dangerous about these missions is that at its peak, there were 40… bomb group bases in England. So on the day of a mission, you had hundreds of bombers taken off all at the same time. And back then, there wasn’t any air traffic control. There wasn’t any radar. Everything was based on visual sight. And usually, the weather was socked in, and you couldn’t see anything until you got above the cloud layer. So mirror collisions were not uncommon at all on these planes trying to take off, getting ready to cross the English Channel. And then when they crossed the English Channel, the Germans had radar stations set up along the continental coast of Europe, so they knew when these bomber formations were coming. And when they did, the Germans would send up their air force, the Luftwaffe, to intercept them. And then when they got close to the target, that’s when they’d run into anti-aircraft fire, or FLAK. FLAK was the abbreviation for the German word for aircraft defense cannon. And then if they made it through the bomb run and then heading back to the bases in England, there they’d have to face the Luftwaffe again. But those gunners were busy both going into the target and going away from the target.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes, most definitely. And before we go to break, Steve Snyder, my understanding was as early in the war, the bombers didn’t have fighter cover all the way into their targets because the fighters early in the war didn’t have enough fuel capacity to accompany them in. So they were like big sitting ducks in the air many times.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, absolutely. In the early years of the war, 1942, 1943, just as you said, the fighters didn’t have the fuel capacity to escort the bombers deep into Germany. They could escort them across the channel, and then they’d reach continental Europe. They’d run low on fuel, so they’d have to turn around and go back to England, where the Luftwaffe would just wait until they turned around, and then they’d come in to attack.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, it’s remarkable what those guys did. So we’re going to go to break. I’m talking with Steve Snyder, and he’s written a book about his father and his father’s crew. It’s called Shot Down, The True Story of Pilot Howard Snyder and the Crew of the B-17 Susan Ruth. And a sponsor that I greatly appreciate for America’s Veterans Stories is Hooters Restaurants. They have locations in Loveland, Westminster, and in Aurora on Parker Road. And great specials Monday through Friday for lunch and for happy hour. Great place to get together with your friends to watch the sporting events and just have some great food. In particular, their fish and chips and their nachos are delicious. I hear that their fish tacos are quite good as well. So again, thank you to Hooters Restaurants for their sponsorship of the show. Join us at Grand Lake’s 14th U.S. Constitution Week, September 15th through September 21st. Grand Lake U.S. Constitution Week is the premier celebration in America of the world’s greatest governing document. The week-long event includes events that educate, promote, and celebrate the U.S. Constitution in picturesque Grand Lake. Constitutional expert Rob Nadelson kicks off the event with his discussion regarding ancient Rome and the Constitution. Nationally recognized scholar Jonathan Turley will deliver the keynote on Saturday, September 20th. For more information, visit GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com. That’s GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com.
SPEAKER 08 :
RE-MAX realtor Karen Levine helps bring to life the individual stories of our servicemen and women. With her sponsorship of America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson, Karen honors the sacrifices of our military and is grateful for our freedom. As a member of the National Association of Realtors Board of Directors, Karen works to protect private property rights for all of us. Karen has a heart for our active duty military and veterans and is honored to help you buy or sell your home. Call Karen Levine at 303-877-7516 to help you navigate buying or selling your home. That’s 303-877-7516.
SPEAKER 04 :
All of Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Monson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmonson.com. That’s Kim Monson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories, and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier, and thank you for listening. Welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And on the line with me is Steve Snyder. And he’s written a book, A Shot Down, The True Story of Pilot Howard Snyder and the Crew of the B-17 Susan Ruth. And, Steve, before we went to break, we were talking about early on in the war, the bombers did not have fighter cover as they were going in on these targets. And so they were big, lumbering bombers in the air. They were sitting ducks. And we lost so many airmen during that time.
SPEAKER 06 :
Absolutely. As I mentioned, in the early part of the war, they didn’t have the fighter escorts that could take them all the way deep into Germany. And the losses were really piled up in 1943. At the beginning of the air war over Europe, there was no mission limits. And the morale of these combat crews started going into the tank because they quickly realized that they would never make it home. They’d either be killed or be shot down and become prisoners of war. So in the spring of 1943, The 8th Air Force did implement a mission limit of 25. So if you made it to 25 missions, you could come home. But it was statistically impossible in 1943 to complete 25 missions. The average number of missions flown before being shot down was only six. And the losses culminated in the fall, October of 43, over a one-week period. There were four missions where the 8th Air Force lost 148 planes. That’s almost 1,500 men. It was referred to as Black Week, with the worst day being Black Thursday on a mission to the ball-bearing factories in Schweinfurt, Germany. where out of 291 planes, 60 were lost. And after that, the 8th Air Force was in shock. There was absolutely no way they could continue taking losses like that. And they seriously considered discontinuing daylight bombing. It wasn’t until right at the end of 1943 and the beginning of 1944, with the introduction of the P-51 Mustang, that these bomber formations finally had escorts that could take them all the way deep into Germany to the target and then escort them back to their bases in England. The P-51 Mustang was particularly effective. They basically won the air war over Europe. By the time D-Day rolled around June 6th of 1944, the Luftwaffe had been pretty much decimated. On D-Day, there was hardly a human plane in the sky over Melbourne Beach.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and the P-51, I was telling you in between the breaks here that several years ago, I interviewed Major Frederick Arnold, who was a P-51 pilot, and he loved that plane. It was quite the plane for sure. And so let’s go to February 1944. Anything else, Steve, you want to make sure our listeners know before we talk about your father being shot down?
SPEAKER 06 :
No, we can go to talk about that. That’s fine.
SPEAKER 09 :
OK, tell us about that day then.
SPEAKER 06 :
OK, as I mentioned, it was February 8th, 1944. I was on a mission to Frankfurt, Germany, where my dad’s plane, the Susan Ruth, they dropped their bomb successfully. But the bomb bay doors got hit by flak or anti-aircraft fire and they couldn’t get them back up. As a result, that caused a drag on the plane, started losing airspeed, and it fell behind the bomber formation, hitting back their bases in England. As a result, they were singled out by two German Focke-Wulf 190 fighters, who, like wolves or lions on prey, you know, swooped in for the kill. And in the ensuing air battle, the Susan Ruth was shot down. Two of the crew members, the Paul Turret Gunner and the radio operator, were killed in the plane. The other eight men were able to bail out successfully. But both those German Focke-Wulf fighters were shot down as well. One was piloted by Siegfried Merrick. His plane crashed in Belgium, and he was killed. And the other was piloted by Hans Berger. who was able to bail out and he survived the war. And actually the gunners on my dad’s plane shot down Hans Berger at the same time he was shooting them down. So they actually shot each other down. Wow. Okay. And the first half of the book builds up to the day that the plane was shot down. And then the second half of the book is all about what happened afterwards.
SPEAKER 09 :
OK, so and first of all, I just want to mention for the ball turret gunner that it would be difficult to get out and get your parachute on and get out when you’re headed when you’ve been hit. So that was a very difficult position to be in for sure.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, actually, none of the crew wore their parachutes in the plane because it was too cramped. So they had to have their wits about them to find their parachute. They had a harness, a parachute harness with hooks on it. So if they needed to bail out, they had to find their parachute, clip it on the hooks of the harness, and then bail out of the plane. Which, you know, you can imagine if you’re attacked and your plane’s on fire and there’s injured or killed men, you’re panicked, you’re just frightened to death and you’re trying to find that parachute and clip it on the hooks. That can be a task all in itself.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and the other thing is, is these guys didn’t they weren’t paratroopers. They didn’t practice this. So can you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Exactly. That’s an excellent point. They had some classroom instructions, but they never ever practiced jumping out of a plane. You know, when they had to bail out that the first time they ever jumped out of a plane. So they really didn’t know what to expect. So that was a scary experience right there. I’m like a paratrooper, like you mentioned it, with practice jumping and knew how to jump and what to do.
SPEAKER 09 :
And yeah, I… I just can’t even think about what that really would be. And I hadn’t thought about the other things, that they were injured, the plane was on fire. Oh, my gosh. I would be so frightened doing that. But they did it. They did it. Okay, so the plane is hit. It’s going down. Then what happens?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, they bailed out at different times. My dad was the last one to bail out. He put the plane on autopilot. So actually, my dad and the plane, they came down in Belgium, but the other men who bailed out all came down in northern France. And my dad was separated. He didn’t know what happened to any of his crew until he got back to England. But something happened different to each guy. Of the 10-man crew, five of them made it home, but five of them did not. After my dad bailed out, He came down in some trees right at the French-Belgian border, and his parachute got hung up on the branches of the tree. He was dangling 20 feet off the ground and couldn’t get down. Unfortunately for him, a couple of young Belgian men, Henri Franken and Raymond Duvin, came to his rescue before the Germans got to him. This all occurred early in the afternoon, just a little past noon. So they went back to the Durban farmhouse, got a ladder and a rope and helped them down this tree. And they told them to stay put and hide because they thought it was too dangerous to try to move them during daylight with German patrols combing the area. That night, they came back. They picked him up and took him to the Durban farmhouse. This is Durban. Durban kind of bandaged his wounds. He had some shrapnel wounds from It’s a minor shrapnel wounds, but they thought it was too dangerous for him to stay there any longer than one night. Again, because those German patrols were still in the area. So the next night, a Belgium customs officer, Paul Chotin, came on a tandem bicycle to take him to a safer location. So they headed out that second night. My dad said it was pitch black. It was drizzling, kind of a dreary evening. And they came to a hill, and they weren’t able to pedal the bike up the hill, so they started pushing it up the hill. When they got to the top of the hill, there was a little cafe there, a cabaret. The lights were on, music was playing, people were laughing. And all of a sudden, two German officers come walking out with their arms around these young French girls. One of them comes up to my dad and asks him for a light for cigarettes.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, my God.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, my dad’s petrified. He can’t speak German and doesn’t know French at that time. But fortunately, Paul, you know, knew what they wanted and pulled out a match and lit the German cigarette. And they let them continue on their way. My dad said they were too drunk and too interested in these young girls to pay much attention to a couple of guys pushing a bike up the hill in the middle of the night. So that was a pretty harrowing experience. And after that, my dad was moved from place to place to place. How long he stayed at any given location depended on how brave the Belgian people were who lived there and how dangerous the Belgian underground thought it was for him to stay there. He might spend one night at a location or six weeks at another location. But many, many Belgian people helped him. And the people who helped my dad or any Boundaire men, for that matter, were unbelievably brave and courageous people. Because they risked not only their lives, but their lives of family and friends. They were discovered by the German secret police, the Gestapo. They’d be arrested, tortured, and either shot or sent to a concentration camp. Some of the people who helped my dad and other members of his crew did meet that fate.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and you mentioned one other thing, and that is, is the way that the Gestapo, they would injure family members instead of, I think, you know, many of us say, well, I could, you know, I could take it. But by gosh, if you saw somebody trying to hurt your children, your grandchildren, that’s a whole different ballgame. And it’s a whole different kind of cruel as well, I think, Steve.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, yeah. The Nazis just had no mercy whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah, which we’ll talk about a little further in the interview.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
Time to go for a break?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, why don’t we go ahead and go? This is probably a good time for a break. So I’m talking with Steve Snyder about his father, who was a B-17 pilot. He’s written a book, Shot Down, the true story of pilot Howard Snyder and the crew of the B-17 Susan Ruth. And so we’re going to go to break. We’ll be right back with Steve Snyder. Join us at Grand Lake’s 14th U.S. Constitution Week, September 15th through September 21st. Grand Lake U.S. Constitution Week is the premier celebration in America of the world’s greatest governing document. The week-long event includes events that educate, promote, and celebrate the U.S. Constitution in picturesque Grand Lake. Constitutional expert Rob Nadelson kicks off the event with his discussion regarding ancient Rome and the Constitution. Nationally recognized scholar Jonathan Turley will deliver the keynote on Saturday, September 20th. For more information, visit GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com. That’s GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com.
SPEAKER 07 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you so much for listening to America’s Veterans Stories. We are rebroadcasting some of the shows that we have recorded in the past because we have these amazing guests and these amazing stories, and we need to hear them. And so we thought that it would be a great idea to rebroadcast some of these so that you can hear our history and know our history because it is so important. So again, this is something that was recorded earlier, and thank you for listening.
SPEAKER 05 :
God bless.
SPEAKER 09 :
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. Talking with Steve Snyder about his father. His father was a B-17 pilot. And the book that Steve has written is Shot Down, The True Story of Pilot Howard Snyder and the Crew of the B-17 Susan Ruth. So your father is now in Belgium and many people were risking their lives to help him. And again, the Nazis were so cruel. We can’t quite fathom exactly what was going on at that time. So continue on, Steve. What happens after that?
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Well, normally when the underground, whether it’s in the Netherlands or Belgium or France, came across a downed airman, they tried to get him back to England through various escape routes, down through France, over the Pyrenees, into Spain, and then out through British-controlled Gibraltar. And there are four different occasions where my dad would look like he would get into these networks and be able to make it back to England. But all four times something happened. These networks would get compromised. The infiltrators, members in the escape line would be killed. So he really got frustrated. But you can imagine now here. To begin with, you know, he’s playing with a pack that’s on fire. He has to bail out. He comes down in a foreign country. He has no idea where he is. Doesn’t know what happened to his buddies on the crew. Can’t communicate with the U.S. military. He’s being helped by total strangers who at the beginning really couldn’t communicate with one another. My dad had a little French-English dictionary in his escape kit that he could refer to. And any of these people having him could be a collaborator. turn him over to the Gestapo. So it was very frustrating. And there’s several times where he was almost discovered by the Germans that are described in the book. And finally, he got tired of hiding. Word came that the Allies landed at Normandy on June 6th, D-Day. And he decided to get back in the fight. Unlike most airmen, before he went into the Air Force, he was in the Army for a year in the infantry. and was trained as an infantryman, so he knew how to fight on the ground. So he decided to join the French resistance and fight against the Germans. And his helpers tried to talk him out of it because it was much too dangerous. He killed fighting against the Germans, or if the Germans caught him, they would shoot him right on the spot as a terrorist. But he thought it was his duty to get back into the fight and help with the war effort. So he talked to one of his helpers, Amy Cools, and riding company with him. They rode bicycles from Belgium into France, and he hooked up with a unit of the French resistance. They were called the Macquis. And the Macquis were independence ragtag guerrilla groups, small groups located all across France. The group he joined was led by a French lieutenant who had escaped from a German prisoner of war camp. There were some Frenchmen, some Belgians, and some Algerians in his group. And they basically, Damacki harassed the Germans. They would attack convoys, sabotage railroad lines, disrupt communications, assassinate German officers. They got their instructions over the BBC from the British through coded messages. And my dad said the information that they gave to him was unbelievably accurate. If they were told that there would be a German convoy coming down this road on this day at this time, sure enough, they would be there. And that was a result of the British cracking the Germans’ enigma code and knowing everything that the Germans were up to. And then they were also supplied by the British through airdrops. So my dad fought with the Mackie for about two and a half months. And there are several encounters described in the book that the Mackey group had attacking the German convoys that are quite exciting. And then finally, seven months after being shot down, word came that there were U.S. troops in the nearby village of Trelon, France. So my dad walked into the town square, went up to an army major. Actually, it was an element of Patton’s Third Army, which had come up through France after D-Day. He identified himself. They interrogated him to make sure he was who he said he was. And then he caught a ride on a convoy taking German prisoners to Paris. And then in Paris, he hopped on a transport to make it back to his base in England, where he sent a telegram to my mother saying he was as fit as a fiddle. And he would write soon and to bank the money because he had all that back pay coming from those seven months of missing in action. So that obviously was a wonderful, happy day for my mother and her parents and my dad’s parents and other relatives.
SPEAKER 09 :
So what about the other crew members?
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Well, three of the crew members were picked up immediately by the Germans, and they became prisoners of war. Two of them were severely injured, Waste Gunner Joe Musial who had his left foot shot off, and the bombardier, Richard Daniels, who almost had his arm blown off. And they were so seriously injured that they were repatriated back to the U.S. in February of 1944 before the war ended. And then my dad’s flight engineer, top turret gunner Roy Holbert, he spent the entire war as a POW and was liberated right at the end of the war. One other man, Bill Schlenker, the tail gunner, he also evaded capture. He was missing in action for those seven months. But unlike my dad, who was moved from place to place to place, he was hidden the entire time at one house in Chebet, Belgium. It was Josephine Calais and her two daughters, Paulette and Giselle. So he was liberated when the U.S. armies came up through France after D-Day. Then the remaining three crewmen, they evaded capture for two months, and they actually joined up with five other downed airmen from three other B-17s. With the help of a couple of members of the Belgium Underground, they built a hut in the forest outside of Chimay, where they were hiding, waiting to get into escape routes to get back to England. But that kept getting delayed. Unfortunately, a Belgium collaborator told the Germans about these eight airmen hiding in the woods. On April 22nd of 1944, hundreds of German troops, both army and different police units, surrounded the hut and they captured the eight airmen, took them back into Chimay to the schoolhouse, interrogated them, and then they drove all eight back out into the woods in Chimay and they shot all eight of them, murdered them. So that was, there’s a lot of tragedy in the book for these five guys who did not make it from my dad’s crew and then five from the different, from other crews that did joy on the guys that did make it. It was about anything that could happen to a bomber crew happened to my dad’s crew.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m thinking about you said early on when they were all missing in action that many of the wives and sweethearts were communicating with each other. It had to be difficult when half came home and half didn’t. That had to be really difficult.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, absolutely. The three guys became prisoners of war. They were able to write home. So they were the first news that the relatives had that they were safe. And they also told the families that the two guys that died in the plane, Lewis Colbert and Ross Kaler, had been killed. So the families did find out what happened to five members of the crew, but they didn’t know what happened to the other five. My dad, who actually was the first one to come back to England, and that’s where he learned that Three of his crew became prisoners of war, and two of them were killed in the plane. But he didn’t know what happened to the other four. And then Bill Schlenker, who evaded capture, showed up. But no one knew what happened to the final three crewmen. At the end of the war, the War Department just told the families of those three that they were presumed dead. Well, the father of the co-pilot, the co-pilot was George Ike. His dad, Derwood Ike, did not accept that. So he went to his senator. He lived in Rochester, New York. And the senator got the government to do a war crimes investigation. And that’s when they discovered what happened to these eight men that were hiding in the woods and were interrogated and shot and then all buried in a common grave in an airport north of Chimay. But that didn’t occur until 16 months after the war. So, you know, it was like a year and a half after the war before they the families actually knew what happened to those three members of the crew that were that were murdered by the by the Nazis. So you can imagine how hard that was on those families.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, my gosh. And this is a subjective question, but OK, I’m thinking April 1944. Hitler knows that the Allies are planning to get a toehold on Western Europe and that they were going to attack Hitler. It just seems so cruel to me to take them out and shoot them instead of putting them as a prisoner of war. Any idea why that occurred?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, that actually was a very rare occurrence. The majority of the men who were shot down and survived became prisoners of war. Really, the only time that it was really dangerous for downed airmen was when they were shot down and bailed out over Germany. Because there were a number of instances where, you know, civilians, farmers did kill downed U.S. or British airmen because they had many relatives that were killed in, you know, the bombing missions. So there were instances of civilians shooting or hanging or clubbing to death downed airmen because they were so angry about, you know, Germany being bombed in Germany. They’re losing loved ones. But in occupied countries, that was very rare because they were occupied by the Germans. The Germans typically picked them up and they became prisoners of war. We’ll never really know for sure why the Nazis killed these eight airmen. One theory was that they did have three guns in the hut. They had a couple of rifles and a handgun. And one theory is that because they were armed, that the Germans considered them terrorists, and that’s why they shot them. But we’ll never know for sure.
SPEAKER 09 :
Wow. OK, let’s go to break. I’m talking with Steve Snyder and he’s written this book about his father. And it’s absolutely fascinating. The book’s called Shot Down the True Story of Pilot Howard Snyder and the crew of the B-17 Susan Ruth. Join us at Grand Lakes 14th U.S. Constitution Week, September 15th through September 21st. Grand Lake U.S. Constitution Week is the premier celebration in America of the world’s greatest governing document. The week-long event includes events that educate, promote, and celebrate the U.S. Constitution in picturesque Grand Lake. Constitutional expert Rob Nadelson kicks off the event with his discussion regarding ancient Rome and the Constitution. Nationally recognized scholar Jonathan Turley will deliver the keynote on Saturday, September 20th. For more information, visit GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com. That’s GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com.
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SPEAKER 09 :
Join us at Grand Lake’s 14th U.S. Constitution Week, September 15th through September 21st. Grand Lake U.S. Constitution Week is the premier celebration in America of the world’s greatest governing document. The week-long event includes events that educate, promote, and celebrate the U.S. Constitution in picturesque Grand Lake. Constitutional expert Rob Nadelson kicks off the event with his discussion regarding ancient Rome and the Constitution. Nationally recognized scholar Jonathan Turley will deliver the keynote on Saturday, September 20th. For more information, visit GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com. That’s GrandLakeUSConstitutionWeek.com. From the mountains to the prairies and welcome back to america’s veteran stories with kim monson be sure and check out our website that is americasveteranstories.com on the line with me is steve snyder and we’re hearing the story of his father it’s fascinating and he’s written a book it’s called shot down the true story of pilot howard snyder and the crew of the b-17 susan ruth so your father we get to the end of the war and we found out now what has happened to everyone your father when did he pass on
SPEAKER 06 :
My father died in April of 2007. He wasn’t the last crew member to die, but he was the oldest at 91. So he had a good life. My mother actually passed away five months later. They had been married for 65 years, and after she lost my dad, there was nothing to live for. He just kind of wasted away.
SPEAKER 09 :
A broken heart, huh?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yep, absolutely. Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
Did he talk with you? Did he talk much about it at all?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes. Like most World War II veterans, my dad didn’t talk a lot about the war until 1989. In August of that year in Belgium, they erected a memorial to my dad and his crew. And my dad and the three other crew members that were still living at the time went over for the dedication of the memorial. And there he was reunited with all these Belgian people who hit him during the war, visited these places where he was hidden. And that brought it all back. And he started talking about it after that. Five years later, in 1994, I made my first trip to Belgium. I’ve been there six times now. But I accompanied my wife and I and my sister Nancy accompanied my parents. to the 50th anniversary of the liberation of Belgium and my dad’s plane being shot down. And that’s when it became personal for me because I went around to all these places with my dad and saw where the events took place. And it’s amazing how many buildings, farms, the schoolhouse there in Chimay, and locations where the hut was located and the wood that is there today. You can go visit where history took place. I just got chills. It’s wonderful.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s remarkable. What I found so interesting when we were in Normandy in 2016 was how the people of Belgium and the Netherlands and Normandy revere these World War II veterans. It was like being with Elvis in Memphis or something. It was just amazing.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, absolutely. To this day, those people are still so thankful for The U.S. and the allies coming to rescue them from four years of Nazi occupation and Nazi oppression. And they do a great job of educating the younger generation as well. Like you mentioned, in 1994, when I was there with my dad, they treated him like he was the president of the United States. It was amazing. I get chills just remembering that, just thinking about it.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
They’re wonderful people.
SPEAKER 09 :
They are. And as you mentioned, they still teach their kids about what happened. And in fact, a friend of mine is from the Netherlands that traveled with us. And he has actually adopted graves of several of our American servicemen. And I think his grandfather had adopted a grave. And then they pass it down to his father, to him. And then schoolchildren, they will go out and they’ll learn the names, they’ll learn the stories of the men that are buried there. We need to take a lesson from them, I think, Steve.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, absolutely. Two of my dad’s crew members, Lewis Colward and John Pindrock, are buried in Europe, one in Belgium, one in the Netherlands. And three of the other men that were killed, who were hiding in the hut, are buried at Margrotten as well. And I’ve met the grave adopters of those men and become friends with them. Yes, as you say, they’re wonderful people.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and you’ve been back then, you said six different times. So you’ve gotten to know many of these people that helped your father or their descendants. And there is a bond between all of you, isn’t there?
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, absolutely. Yes. We become like family, you know, either, you know, grandsons or great granddaughters or people who helped my dad. We had my dad. Yeah, it’s really a blessing. And so we have that connection because their, you know, grandmother or grandfather, you know, told stories and it’s been passed down. And that was, you know, the most significant time in their lives and my dad’s life.
SPEAKER 09 :
Life and death. I’ve interviewed a number of combat veterans. And those kinds of things, when your life is on the line like that, it’s seared in your heart, it’s seared in your brain for sure. There’s something very fascinating that has happened, though, is you actually met the German pilot who shot down your father’s plane. So tell us about that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, amazing story in itself. And it’s interesting of all the people that are involved in the shot down story. Hans Berger is a Luftwaffe pilot that shot down my dad’s plane and the gunners on my dad’s plane shot him down. He’s the only one that’s still living. He’ll be 99 years old in October. He lives in an apartment in Munich, Germany. I have gone to my wife and I’ve gone over there and visited him a couple of times and we’ve become friends. And actually, I owe it all to my wife that I found Hans Berger because it didn’t even dawn on me to try. But one day during my research, my wife said, well, why don’t you try to find the German pilot that shot him down? And I’m thinking to myself, oh, she’s naive. She doesn’t know what she’s talking about. That’d be impossible. But like a good husband, I did what she told me to do. And I found Hans Berger. And fortunately for me, he became a translator after the war and speaks perfect English. Yeah, everything just fell into place. Because not only did he survive the war, but it was over 70 years later, he was still living and he speaks English. So I can’t tell you how excited I was when I found him, because all my dad knew and all the Air Force knew was that his plane was attacked by two Falk Wolf German fighters, and that’s all I thought I’d ever know. And then finding him and listening to his story, most of all, his friends were killed in the war, and he was actually shot down three times during the war. But he survived. He shot down seven B-17s and one Spitfire. And he gave me some wonderful insight that’s in the book about what it was like to go up against the 8th Air Force. It’s very thrilling. And having the chance to meet him, and I went over with a film crew, actually. We filmed an interview with him in a little documentary that I made, clips from that. But I plan to make a little broader documentary video of that interview. And a lot of people say, well, how can you be friends with this German pilot that shot down your dad’s plane? But pretty much it was just like the American fires. He was a young guy, 19, 20 years old, fighting for his country, trying to do a job and trying to stay alive. And as he said, it was unfortunate they had to be shooting at each other, but that was war.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes. So he wasn’t part of, and I think it’s important that people understand there, that the Nazi, the Gestapo, that was a little different animal, if you will, from all of the other people that were serving in the German military, correct?
SPEAKER 06 :
Correct. There were really two factions in the German military. One was the regular army, the regular Wehrmacht. But Hitler formed the SS, and the armed division of the SS called the Waffen-SS. Those were the really bad guys. The SS were the ones who operated the concentration camps and committed the vast majority of the atrocities. It wasn’t the regular army or the Air Force. And like Hans says, they weren’t all evil Nazis. You have to make that distinction.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I think that is that’s very important. This is a fascinating story. And don’t you feel after I came back from Normandy, it’s it’s it just has opened up a whole new appreciation for who we are as Americans. As I’ve gotten to talk with these men and and we got just a couple of minutes left. How would you like to wrap this up, Steve Snyder?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, absolutely. Actually, since writing that book, it’s changed my life. My life is really dedicated to keeping the memory alive of, you know, not just my dad and his crew, but the 8th Air Force and all the men who fought in World War II. And educate the public, especially younger generations, about the sacrifices that those men made and all of actually the country, you know, all the people who supported the war effort. I spend hours every day on social media promoting the memory. I travel to air shows all around the United States, signing copies of my book, talking to people about the air war and the Tetrans. I make PowerPoint presentations to all sorts of groups. It’s really become my life’s work. to make sure that we appreciate what these guys did to preserve the freedoms that we enjoy today. Unlike these people in occupied countries, they lost their freedoms for four years. So they really, you know, know what it’s like to lose freedom. You know, so many people in the United States, you know, just enjoy these freedoms. And we don’t really don’t appreciate how fragile those freedoms are. You just look at what’s happening in Ukraine today. So it’s important. You know, World War Two was 75 years ago and it’s fading in people’s memories and we can’t let that happen.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, that’s why you do what you do. That’s why we do what we do here as well. Where can people buy the book?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, most people get it on Amazon. It’s available as a print book, both hardcover and softcover, also in all formats of audiobooks, also e-books. And also, it’s an audio book. If anyone wants an autographed signed copy, they can go to my website, which is stevesnyderauthor.com. Snyder, that’s S-N-Y-D-E-R, stevesnyderauthor.com, and they can purchase a book there. There’s also a great deal of information about the era over Europe and World War II on my website. It’s just not about my book, but there’s a lot of links to veteran interviews, research sites. So if somebody wants to get an overview and learn more about the air war, they can go to my website.
SPEAKER 09 :
And again, that’s Steve Snyder, S-N-Y-D-E-R, author.com, correct? Is that what you said? Correct. Okay. Steve Snyder, this has been fascinating. Thank you so much. It’s been just a great honor to have this conversation.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, thank you very much, Kim. Again, I appreciate you having me on your show, and I’ve enjoyed it a lot.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, indeed. And my friends, we stand on the shoulders of giants. And so God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Monson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m., here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 02 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
