In this episode of The Good News, Angie Austin sits down with Dr. Cheryl Lentz to explore the themes of power and silence within leadership. They discuss Dr. Lentz’s latest book, volume 26 in the Refractive Thinker series, which delves into how power dynamics transcend the worlds of academia and business. The conversation highlights the significance of the power of silence in leadership and the intriguing theory of speaking last to truly understand diverse perspectives without influence.
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now with The Good News.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hello there, Angie Austin and Dr. Cheryl Lentz, the academic entrepreneur with the good news. And the good news is today is a big deal for you, Dr. Cheryl Lentz. Welcome.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thank you. Thank you. Yes, it is. Today we are launching another book in our beloved series, The Refractive Thinker. This is volume 26, but we actually have 28 volumes. We did one actually three times once. So this is a big day. I’ve been up since 630 this morning and getting all the social media ramped up. And oh my gosh, this is a so much fun day of publishing.
SPEAKER 03 :
So this one is the dynamics of power. Can you explain what this is about?
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. I was approached by my group, and we’ve got over 200 scholars around the world, actually probably more by now, that focus on things that are related to contemporary business as well as to academic pursuits because, you know, I’m known as the academic entrepreneur. I’ve got one foot in academia and one foot in the business world. So they approached me about looking at the idea of power and how it transcends both worlds. So we have over 18 scholars that are part of this. We have Forbes Riley, who wrote the forward. I’m excited because my mentor and I tag team, I wrote chapter eight. He and I wrote chapter nine together and we’re debuting a new theme or a new theory called the power of silence and leadership. And I am so excited about this.
SPEAKER 03 :
The power of silence and leadership. Explain that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, when you look at the idea of silence, think about what’s not said versus what is said. The power of the pregnant pause, the slowing down of speech, the… Not saying anything. I remember something during a doctoral program by Dr. Sample, when the contrarians guide to leadership, and he would say the idea of thinking gray is suspending all judgment before all the facts are in. And many people don’t know the power of silence. Simon Sinek will have the power of a leader is a leader speaks last. Make sure that the leader doesn’t influence what’s said first, because then you’ll have everyone who wants to piggyback on the idea and then tell the leader what they want to hear. And the leader doesn’t want that. The leader needs to know the good, the bad, the ugly. But because people hear their title before they hear them, sometimes the brown nosing happens. Sometimes the safety in numbers happens. Sometimes we just don’t want to rock the boat and be different because there’s safety in hiding and conformity. So when you’re looking at a business meeting, watch the people who are the EF Hutton moments. And we’re going to date ourselves for a minute. But there used to be a commercial that says when EF Hutton talks, people listen, right? And it was the power of silence. And the fact that that one person had commanded the floor and they may have said four words. That’s what we’re talking about because a lot of people look at the bull in the china shop, right? The extreme is the chatty Cathy is those who won’t shut up, the one who won’t get off the pulpit. And I know I’m a professor. I’m guilty of getting on my soapbox. I have a few hot ones I like. But the fact is, is when you speak in silence and you speak in nonverbals and you speak in putting a hand on someone’s shoulder, looking at it in the eye, that pause between something, you really make that point land. Denzel Washington is great at this. Matthew McConaughey is great at this. The way they capture the elocution of their voices, the way they just ever so slightly change their voices, ever so slightly watch. And make sure that they understand that sometimes the best thing to say is absolutely nothing. And there’s power in that. But that’s not what we as a society like. We like the noise, right? We like all of the stuff. I’m like, yeah, sometimes the best way is to say nothing.
SPEAKER 03 :
And a lot of times, you know, the leader speaks first. And you’re right. People will then piggyback on them. And I said to one of my bosses, we were talking about someone, you know, always buttering her up or, you know, the term that’s not, you know, so great that the brown nose. And she goes, well, you know, when you’re the one getting brown nose, it’s actually pretty great. And I was like, oh, OK, well, she really likes that, you know, because this guy was constantly following her around and just like a puppy, you Like that cartoon where that little dog bounces around the big dog and, you know, who’s the man? Who’s the man? Who’s the great boss? Who’s the great boss? And so she thought it was great. But, of course, when she speaks first, he’s going to just echo everything she says. But what a great way to find out what other people are thinking to not speak first as the leader and kind of glean, you know, what everybody else thinks and has learned. And maybe the leader will even be able to gather something from that. When we had our new news director several years back, our – Our station was Channel 2, WB2 at the time. And the new general manager wanted to call it the deuce. And all the young people were like, you know, that means like the number two when you go potty, like that slang for that. And then he’s like, you know, just wanted, you know, just basically told him to shut up and do their job. But like all the young people were like, that’s like what we say when we’re going to go number two and go potty. We say we’re going to go do the deuce. And he’s like, that’s what he named our station, the deuce. And he did like all of this, like, you know, everything was new. You know, the size of the vans, the billboards said it, you know, everything. And then it became like like a local laugh, laughing stock kind of thing. Like, oh, my gosh, I can’t believe that they named their station like the turd. You know, it’s like.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, they haven’t. There’s this urban legend about when the Chevy Nova was released, because Nova literally means no-go in Spanish. Who would name their car no-go as a car, right? There are all kinds of interesting… lessons from history about making sure you do your homework so you understand the context, you understand the rules, you understand the potential of perception, whether you want it to be or not. That’s just what young kids are saying these days, right? And so he was not somebody that was willing to listen. And that’s why that TV show Undercover Boss is so popular, right? It’s because people, good news travels up, but not bad news. And so the boss has to make a decision based on what they know and what they’re told. And if they’re only told the good news and they don’t have an accurate representation, some of these TV shows, episodes were horrific because of the horrible conditions some of these companies were in that the boss never really knew. And until they got in there to be able to say because what they were being told was not accurate and the boss was making decisions on inaccurate information and it put the company and its employees in a very precarious, vulnerable position. And that’s why sucking up the boss is not a good thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, it’s amazing to me how many bosses don’t really know what’s going on and what’s being said. And I can see how the undercover boss would work in organizations where they really maybe don’t know what the CEO looks like. And I know they, you know, put them in disguise, but some of the disguises were so bad. I mean, if you worked closely with your boss, you’d obviously know who they were. But I could see how it could work in some of these situations where there’s a big factory or they’ve got a corporation with locations all over the country. But I like it for a few different reasons to find the The workers who are really going the extra mile and really making sacrifices that really touch the boss’s heart. But also there’s always a cancer in the organization, like someone who’s always conspiring to rip off the system or say bad things about people. I remember I worked with somebody and we were in the they were in the control room. I can’t remember if I walked back there. Cause you know, like you’re on TV on one side in the studio. And then if you go back in the control room, like they’re kind of entertaining themselves, making comments about the on-air talent and the guests and the behind the scenes people. And one of, um, The girl said something to the effect of that about the editors, like I heard monkeys can edit better than, you know, our editors. And then there was something one time that was said about a guest. And then I, you know, overheard something I felt was offensive and they were screaming at me, you know, what happens in the control room stays in the control room. I’m like, it’s not Las Vegas. Like you’re still held accountable for what you say. And in the case of the guest, we have something that we do during the show where we record an air check. And there are two different tracks. There’s one where you could hear not only the on air talent, but you could hear what the directors and everybody in the booth was saying. So you would have that to find out if there was a mistake or maybe for legal purposes. I don’t know. But then when a guest was on stage, and they wanted a copy, you would only give them the track that went on air. So you just hear the anchors and the music and the commercials. Well, they accidentally sent both tracks to the, and I’m using air quotes here, the psychic who was on. And one of our reporters, who was kind of a goofy guy, he called in and pretended he was giving a legitimate Question to the psychic and everyone in the booth knew that it was the reporter making fun of our guests. So everyone behind the scenes was like laughing like, oh, my gosh, I can’t believe he’s like asking what his cat is saying to him and always his dead cat can speak to him or whatever it was. It was just like a big farce making fun of the guests. So anyway, she gets a copy of this, right? So, of course, like she wants to sue. She’s livid. She talks to the news director. And I said to him, see, people, this is what I’m talking about. Like whatever you say in the booth does not stay in the booth. And so I feel like the undercover boss, my whole point to all of this was. My kids don’t even repeat this now. They say, my mom says, whatever you say about someone will always get back to them. It might be in a worse manner or a slightly better manner, or it might not be everything you said. But whatever you say about someone, particularly in school, high school, college, friends at work, it will get back to them. And whether it’s exact or not, it will get back to them.
SPEAKER 04 :
Think about all those funny stories, and some of them are not funny when somebody’s got a hot mic, you know, back behind the scenes at the Academy Awards during a negotiation, one of the presidents on an airplane or something because they don’t realize or it’s strategic. I don’t know. But the fact when you have a hot mic, you have to be careful what you say when you’re in public. Because it will get its way out. And that’s why so many people are so careful with what they tell the boss in leadership and why some of these companies are so embarrassed when they don’t know what’s actually going on in their own company because it’s either so big or they choose not to know. You know, there is that to be part of that. And we teach that in leadership is you need to be able to have that safe space. We call it the psychological contract. It’s the ability for your people to tell you the good, the bad, and the ugly without fear of retribution. And if you haven’t created that safe space, then it’s your fault that the leader, not their fault as a follower, not to be able to be willing to go through, you know, that open door that everyone says they have. There is a few companies I had. I would never walk through that door, not even on a dare, not if you paid me a million dollars. Why? Because I knew that it could be used against you and it would bite you and it could cost you your job. And that’s what a lot of people are afraid of. If, however, we choose the opposite tack, we wouldn’t have that fear and we would get to know everything.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, not just, you know, cost of your job, like you can even really hurt your company. I mean, this is another example. This is so silly, but I had a jacket on that had snaps. And when I was doing the weather or doing a segment, I jumped off of something that was kind of high, like I was sitting up high. So when I jumped down to get off of this block or whatever we’re standing on or sitting on, my whole jacket popped open. Every snap snapped and my whole jacket flew open. So you could see my bra like live on the air. And so like I scream and like, you know, cross my arms and, you know, run out of the camera side or whatever view. So then like a couple of weeks later, we’re at at Bronco Stadium and we’re doing some kind of thing. And I can’t remember just live shots. We were at Bronco Stadium doing live shots. And they had a monitor or TV for people who, you know, a monitor so I can see myself doing the weather so I can look in the TV and watch myself. And one of the he was one of the higher up issues, people like an ops manager. He thought it’d be funny for everybody on our system to be able to see that clip of me with my jacket popping open. So he’s looping it, right? So I’m standing there and I look down at the TV monitor while I’m on the field at, you know, Maya High and I see my jacket popping open and see like my bra, you know? And so I’m thinking like everybody in the stadium can see this or at least everybody like in our live truck back at the station, all the reporters there, all the camera people there, all the technical people there. And I was livid and mortified. Like the fact that that wasn’t a lawsuit on my part and the fact that the guy didn’t get fired is like, mind-blowing to me like in this day and age like that you’d never get away with that you know but I guess what I’m saying is like you what you do at your company and when you are representing them on social media and the things you are saying that is you’re representing your company and your family I always tell my kids that like you’re representing your family Cheryl give us the name of the book again on your website
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s called The Dynamics of Power, Unveiling the Social Forces That Shape Us. RefractiveThinker.com and mine is DrCherylLex.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, I love talking to you, my friend. Thank you. You’re welcome. Bye.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 01 :
Elizabeth is dialed in to the mighty 670.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hello there. If you’re just joining us, Angie Austin and Dr. Cheryl Lentz with the good news. Cheryl, I want to keep you around a few minutes before my next guest joins us because I was telling you my story of being on air when my snaps on my jacket popped open. But just talking about people being accountable for what they say and realizing anything you say at work, but just in general, it will come back to haunt you.
SPEAKER 04 :
you if you don’t if you weren’t wise with your words and really speak with integrity but tell everyone again the name of your book and the book launch today and anything else you’d like us to know it’s called the dynamics of power unveiling the social forces that shape us this is volume 26 in this series we’ve been doing this series since 2007 it’s just for doctoral scholars And it’s research, social research mostly, on commenting on various titles and ideas throughout that shape our communities. And we’ve done things on mental health and AI. And this one just happens to be the Dynamics of Power. And it’s debuting today. So thank you for letting me have a plug. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER 03 :
And your chapter eight is about understanding the power of influence, silence and leadership. But also you do another chapter, the power of silence and leadership, a refractive theory of influence. Anything else? We’ve got a couple of minutes left before my guest joins us that you want us to know in the book that you think would like really stuck out to you or that you learned or you think will help us.
SPEAKER 04 :
I think the power is looking at what you can do with your voice. And that’s why we have offered this book series along the years we’ve had is what is your voice and the power of it to see? Because many people do not think they have something worthy to say. And so we created this book. dynamic. Again, we have over 200 scholars, 18 just in this book. And so in the event that you feel a little bit intimidated doing it by yourself, join a group and make sure that your voice is heard because it’s important and we need everyone to stand up.
SPEAKER 03 :
I love that you are so involved in academia. A lot of us, as we get a little bit older, you and I are similar age, that We kind of get in the easy chair. I’m guilty of that sometimes. I’m still doing my show. I’m interviewing people. I really get a kick out of it. But for me, it’s just fun now. There’s not a lot of grit, tough work that I do. And I know putting these books together and doing a lot of the stuff you do, you’re still teaching. You’re still dealing with your students. You’re in that academic world where it’s not all easy. And so I admire that you keep striving to get better every year and that you’re fully ensconced in your work. And I know you’re single, and I know part of that is that you are taking care of yourself, but also you’re just a real go-getter.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I appreciate that. It’s funny because this came up in one of my classes when I shared with them my very first book. It was called The Golden Palace Theory of Management, and it was 60 books ago. And it’s so funny because it was a, now I look at that book and I cringe just a little bit, but that was as good as I was back when I released it. Now I’d like to think that in 15 years, I’ve gotten just a little bit better and improved some things, but that’s the whole point is being willing to keep putting one foot in front of the other and improving as we go forward. And I’d like to think I’ve got there. So thank you so much for the compliment, but I still have lots more to do. I hope.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. It’s neat for me to be, you know, same age group as you and become friends with you over the last decade over um the radio um and just i have a lot of admiration for you i like watching your work i like hearing about your new books i like having our discussions like it’s really fun to speak with someone who’s uh you know intellectually so stimulating and uh continues to really strive for more in life so i think that’s super cool give it a run your website and then you stick around because i think my next guest i want you to hear a few minutes of this because i know you’re traveling a lot so this may benefit you too
SPEAKER 04 :
Sounds great. Dr. Cheryl Lentz.com and the book you can find on Amazon as well as refractive thinker.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Thank you, Cheryl. Well, you know, the holiday season is upon us and with more people traveling and gathering with loved ones, more respiratory illnesses will be circulating in the coming months. So what do you need to know to stay protected and healthy this season? It’s not just about staying healthy, like just for you. I just got three immunizations because I want to protect all the 80 plus year old grandparents joining us. is Samantha Picking. And Samantha is Senior Director of Immunizations at Walgreens. And Samantha, I’ve got a daughter coming in today. I’ve got 80 plus year old grandparents coming in. My son’s coming in this weekend. So I know you’re going to discuss how to stay healthy this holiday season and hopefully all winter. And you’re going to get into specifics, which I’m curious about, like which vaccines are recommended and other ways to protect against respiratory viruses. Welcome, Samantha.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hi, Angie. Thank you so much for having me.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’re welcome. Okay, so let’s just get into the respiratory virus season so far. What should people know and what should they be on the lookout for?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it’s definitely that time of year. And every year we see common respiratory viruses like flu and pneumonia cause hundreds of thousands of hospitalizations, but also thousands of deaths. And in recent years activity has started to ramp up in december and that’s likely driven by increased travel and holiday gatherings and families getting together this time of year so i actually encourage everyone to take a look at and check out and monitor the walgreens respiratory index it’s our publicly available online tool so it can track flu and coven 19 activity across the united states and what we did is we developed this tool to provide the public with actionable and accessible data to stay informed and take the necessary actions to stay protected as virus season progresses. whether you’re planning to travel, and I know it sounds like you have kids traveling right now, or host guests this season, the respiratory index gives you real-time insight into what’s happening in your area, but also at your destination.
SPEAKER 03 :
Excellent. Okay, that’s really cool. What can we do to protect ourselves and our families against flu and other respiratory illnesses ahead of the holidays? Maybe some of us can take care of some of this stuff before our guests arrive.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it’s definitely that time of year, and it can be so busy right now, but It’s critical for everyone to take the time to get your annual flu shot and also your other recommended vaccines. So that could be the updated COVID-19 vaccine, RSV or pneumonia vaccines. If you haven’t gotten vaccinated yet, it’s not too late. And based on my experience as a pharmacist and the available scientific data, we know vaccines are safe, effective ways to protect against highly contagious illnesses. Getting your recommended vaccines can help reduce severity of symptoms, but also lower the risk of hospitalization. And Walgreens makes it easy to get all your recommended vaccines in one visit. You can walk into your local Walgreens pharmacy today, or if you want to plan ahead, you can schedule an appointment via our website, app, or by calling 1-800-WALGREENS. It’s really cool. Our online scheduler actually offers you the option to book up to four vaccines in the same visit. So you only have to make one trip. And then as an added bonus, if you also are doing some last-minute holiday shopping, Walgreens is also offering individuals 20% off their next purchase of $20 or more as a MyWalgreens member anytime you get a vaccine. Hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Well, that’s good to know. Always nice to get that. And, you know, for many of us that have good, you know, insurance when we walk in, they check our insurance for us and we usually don’t pay. At least I don’t pay a dime when I go in for. And you mentioned the three that I did get. just about a week ago flu and then I got pneumonia and COVID so three at once and I just you know gave it two different arms so you know one would be a little more sore than the other and I was just achy so you know no big deal my husband’s like you can’t get them all at once I’m like yeah you can I asked the pharmacist hello like of course I asked the expert right
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, that’s exactly it. You can get multiple vaccines at the same time. It’s absolutely safe. And for many people, getting all your recommended vaccines in a single appointment is really the easiest way to stay up to date. You get them all at once. You don’t have to space it out and wait and have that period of no protection. The other thing is you can schedule an appointment for up to four people for the same visit. So you can make it easy for the family to come in all together and check it off the list. But as always, as you said, Walgreens services are available to talk to patients about what’s best for them, their loved ones based on personal medical history, and the latest recommendations.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, walking in okay or online scheduling okay, what’s best?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, both are totally fine. It’s super convenient. You can walk in anytime the pharmacy is open and head back and get your vaccines or talk to the pharmacist. But also, if you want to plan ahead, you can schedule online, website, app, call 1-800-WALGREEN. There’s so many options.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and it is so nice. The reason I just do it together is because, as you know, Samantha, what will happen is people will have the best intentions of coming back in for the other vaccinations and get busy and never really finish them up. So I’m better off just getting a whole bunch at once.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s exactly. I do the same thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. All right. How about just people reducing their chances of getting sick during the holiday season? What are your recommendations to reduce our chances of getting sick?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. I mean, getting vaccinated is still number one, the most important thing you could do to protect yourself and those around you. But in addition to that, everyday preventative actions can help reduce the spread of viruses, right? So for example, avoiding close contact with people who may be sick, covering your nose and mouth when you sneeze, wash your hands often, avoid touching your eyes, nose, and mouth. I also recommend if you are traveling, prepare a travel bag. Put essentials like hand sanitizer, disinfecting wipes, tissue, or any prescription medications you need to have on hand and carry that with you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, we’re going on a cruise. And so I just ordered those little spray-on hand sanitizers for everybody. And whenever we sit down to eat, I have them each spray their hands because sometimes some of those viruses just cruise through the whole cruise ship. And You know, don’t be afraid to do something because you’re afraid you’re going to seem rude. I was just recently at some big basketball event in the stands and there was a group of moms that were talking near me and talking about how sick they’d been and everybody in their house had been sick and one of them kept coughing like almost on me, like right behind me. and so i got up and moved away and i heard them say something about me and i said i am so sorry i said i just got over an illness and i just cannot bear to be sick again i don’t mean to be rude but i did hear you talking about how sick you’ve been so yes i did move away so i apologize if i seem rude then they all laughed and said yeah i would have moved too but their initial reaction was to gossip about me being rude but then i thought well i’m just going to stand up for myself and tell them why i did it and then they all kind of laughed like well we probably would have done the same thing so I guess we feel like in our society, oh, I don’t want to hurt someone’s feelings. Who cares? Just explain why you’re moving.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and it’s no fun to get sick. So if you need to move or do something else or have your hand sanitizer out, just do it. I mean, we don’t want to be sick for the holidays when we’re hanging out with our friends. It’s no fun.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, yes, yes. Okay, how about we’ve gotten sick, what can help with recovery? Sometimes we hear about things either just making you feel a little bit better or helping you get over it a little more quickly.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, so if you’re experiencing cold or flu-like symptoms, so redness or cough, I recommend heading to your local Walgreens. You can test for COVID and flu before traveling or gathering with others so you can know, do you have one of those viruses? But also, cold and flu season is so unpredictable, so it’s helpful to have a few essentials at home to manage symptoms. Common items like fever reducers, pain relievers, cough relief, hydration aids, at-home tests, and disinfectants. And then in addition to that, vitamins and minerals like vitamin C, zinc, selenium can also support immune function. So many of these items are available for same-day delivery at Walgreens, which is super convenient. I use that option all the time, but especially if you’re home sick and you don’t want to go out, you’re home with a sick kid, you’re trying to avoid crowds, you can just order it same day. It’s at your doorstep. I also encourage patients to talk to your Walgreens pharmacist or other health care provider about additional advice on managing your specific symptoms. And then before stocking up on any new medications, vitamins, or minerals, check with your pharmacist to make sure they’re appropriate for your specific health conditions or they don’t interact with any other medications you may be taking.
SPEAKER 03 :
You mentioned one in there. I take echinacea, zinc, C, vitamin D. I just kind of take to not get sick in the first place. And then I take this really weird, I don’t even know if I can say it, something, a low caucus. It’s a little tube of like homeopathic medicine that I get with Walgreens. It’s just a little like tube and it has little pellets in it. Have you ever heard of that?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes I have yep and again they’re all right there they’re super easy to get you could talk to your pharmacist if you have questions about them or you can get them delivered the same day.
SPEAKER 03 :
And then selenium what is that do you mention that I’ve never heard of that being used?
SPEAKER 05 :
Again it’s one of those vitamins or minerals that can really help support immune function that you can take.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay all right good to know I didn’t know about that and then we do a lot of cold and flu medicine because it kind of covers everything like nighttime and daytime that’s kind of our go-to is that fairly effective just to kind of dull the symptoms?
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s the same for me. I usually go for those combination medications because you probably have multiple symptoms at once.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
It depends on what symptoms you’re experiencing. But again, there are combo products that are super convenient that can cover you, whether it’s a daytime one or a nighttime one, so you can maybe sleep through your symptoms. But those are certainly an option.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, cool. Where should we go for more info?
SPEAKER 05 :
For more information on everything we discussed, including the vaccine guidance, access to testing, or to check virus trends, just head to your neighborhood Walgreens or visit Walgreens.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you so much, Samantha Picking, Senior Director of Immunizations. We appreciate your expertise. Thanks for having me today. You bet.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
In this episode of The Good News, Angie Austin sits down with Dr. Cheryl Lentz to explore the themes of power and silence within leadership. They discuss Dr. Lentz’s latest book, volume 26 in the Refractive Thinker series, which delves into how power dynamics transcend the worlds of academia and business. The conversation highlights the significance of the power of silence in leadership and the intriguing theory of speaking last to truly understand diverse perspectives without influence.
