In this episode of Sekulow, we delve into the breaking news of Don Lemon’s arrest and the circumstances surrounding it. Journalist Don Lemon was taken into custody following his involvement in a controversial protest at a church in Minnesota. We explore the implications of his actions and discuss whether his role as a journalist grants him immunity from legal consequences. Join us as we navigate the fine line between legitimate journalism and active participation in disruptive protests.
SPEAKER 04 :
We got breaking news. Don Lemon arrested. Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Logan Sekulow.
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome to Sekulow. We’ve got a packed show. It is Friday. We’re live. So I want to make sure you have an opportunity to call in. We could open up those lines. Open up the phone lines for you at 1-800-684-3110. That’s at 1-800-684-3110. Do we have phone lines? We should. Okay. All right. Let’s make sure we open those up for people to call in. Okay. I’m not sure. We’ll figure that out. Don Lemon. Has some breaking news. Don Lemon has been arrested. That’s right. Journalist Don Lemon, who stormed that church with the protesters, who went in, who got in the face of that pastor, has now been arrested. This happened last night in his hotel around 11 o’clock last night, I believe. in Los Angeles as he was preparing for the Grammy Awards, which are this weekend, opens up a whole host of questions. Of course, last week we learned that a judge said he was not going to be, but that changed, obviously, and the federal government has made some arrests. Now again, and then we need to take a step back. My big concern about this is making Don Lemon into some kind of superstar for the left. Because do I think Don Lemon, do I think he’s a big threat to anyone? Yeah, likely not. In fact, I think he was a pretty irrelevant person, an irrelevant source of news, an irrelevant source of broadcasting for many years now. He said, make me the next Jimmy Kimmel. Essentially, make me that martyr, if you will. And it looks like… That is heading to happen and that is my concern when something like this happens. Not that consequences shouldn’t be upon someone. Look, if he deserves to be arrested, he deserves to be arrested and so on and so on. But my concern is that we make this kind of moment the focus and not actually focus on the real concerns of what’s going on in Minnesota. And all of a sudden, you now have created a superstar out of Don Lemon. Not something that I would like to happen, as he has not been very kind to us in the past, because I think this is absolutely what he wanted. to happen could you imagine a grander scale for it to happen also in your you know los angeles hotel then you know the weekend of the grammys that you’re there to cover and they’re there arresting a journalist uh now look did he get in the face of that pastor absolutely do i think really what he said was egregious and so fundamentally wrong and misunderstanding how the first amendment works Absolutely. Like I said, I think he was a talking head who was pretty good at reading a teleprompter and now is given a situation where he’s not. Did he go after those people and said, look at the traumatized children out there, but that is why protesters are doing this. Essentially, he said that. He wants that to happen. He wanted this disruption of the church service to happen. So I’m sure that opens the door to what the legality is. Now, do I think it’s a slippery slope also when you start going after journalists and I do because I can see where the shoe is on the other foot. And all of a sudden we are talking about the loads more of independent conservative leaning journalists who likely would have been in this situation. But look, a lot of them have had issues. Look at what happened with James O’Keefe and all of those issues that happened at Project Veritas. It’s not unheard of in the conservative movement for someone to be arrested or to have any sort of legal ramifications.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right. And what we don’t know right now is specifically which statute he’s been charged with. There was a lot of talk of the FACE Act. We can get into that in the next segment. But what is interesting here is that, remember, they went to a federal magistrate judge in Minnesota a couple weeks back, and he was not given them an arrest warrant to sign off on to arrest him. They appealed that decision in kind of an unusual move to the actual district court judge and the chief judge of that, who said, basically, if you want to do this, we’re not going to overturn the magistrate. Judge, go impanel a grand jury. That appears to be what has happened. They impaneled a grand jury, and we’re able to get an indictment against Don Lemon through that process. And we don’t know what the charge is yet, but we have some information we can talk about in the next segment.
SPEAKER 03 :
that’s right give us a call 1-800-684-3110 1-800-684-3110 you always ask for a rest you always ask for things to happen well they happened and how do you feel about it now 1-800-684-3110 support your work of the aclj at aclj.org we’ll be right back Welcome back to Secular. Like I said, phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. Reporting on the news, of course, that Don Lemon, after being a part of that raid of that church that ended up in chaos in Minnesota a couple weeks back, now has been arrested, likely charged. We are still waiting on all the information about it. Of course, this happened at City’s Church. And you remember Don Lemon made a big point about this. He didn’t just happen to be there. He was part of the group that went inside and he went up to the pastor during the service. That’s where I guess you could start really considering if he was impeding that service, what he was doing. Because I do believe in a broad protection for journalists, And I know that’s going to ruffle feathers. People won’t love that. But I do believe, because look, I think of myself as somewhat of a journalist and having the shoe on his other foot going, okay, well, would they do this to me if I was attending a protest? Now, would I have gotten in the face of the pastor? Would I have been celebrating children being traumatized? Absolutely not. I think what he did was disgusting. I think what he did is abhorrent. Do I think what he did was federally illegal? I don’t know. I think that that’s a gray area that we should at least be open to having the conversation about. I want you to flashback here. So let’s go back to that interaction between Don Lemon and the pastor in the middle of the chaos that had broken out in the church.
SPEAKER 13 :
Our church had gathered for worship, which we do every Sunday, and we were interrupted by this group of protesters. We asked them to leave, and they obviously have not left. What do you think of it? I mean, this is unacceptable. It’s shameful. It’s shameful to interrupt a public gathering of Christians in worship.
SPEAKER 12 :
But there were folks who will say, I have to take care of my flock. Listen, we live in a, there’s a constitution in the First Amendment to freedom of speech and freedom to assemble and protest.
SPEAKER 13 :
We’re here to worship. We’re here to worship Jesus because that’s the hope of these cities. That’s the hope of the world is Jesus Christ. I want to be very respectful. Please don’t push me, though. We’re here. We’re here to worship Jesus. That’s why we’re here. That’s why we’re here. That’s what we’re about. Don’t you think Jesus would be understanding and love these folks? We’re about spreading the love of Jesus.
SPEAKER 05 :
Logan, I want to actually play the follow up to this as well, because one, I think that here is and I agree with you to a large degree that there is. You don’t have to. No, no. I mean, I’m going to get the people on Rumble riled up, you know, but here we go with a situation where, yes, we here at the ACLJ are First Amendment advocates. We fight for people who want to protest or share the gospel in places that people don’t want them. So we do have to look at this and be very objective about it to get to the bottom of it. And here’s the problem I have, because I think journalists do have a very wide ability to report. Here’s the big problem I have, and I think where he may have problems as well. Obviously, a federal grand jury believed that there was probable cause to charge him. But in that bite, the pastor is trying to get away and say he’s saying, I need to go take care of my congregation. And Don Lemon won’t let him go. And he’s even he’s trying to give hand signals like I need to go. And Don Lemon goes, please don’t push me. Already, he is trying to keep the pastor there, which is interfering with the worship service. He is actively engaged in it. It’s not like he’s in the corner filming it unfold. And if he had just gone in and filmed, there probably is less of a case against him. than what i see here and i want to play this follow-up bite as well because i think this also is where don lemon goes from being someone who is reporting to someone who is participating in and continuing it because this is bite three and this is an important bite still continuing after the pastor has said i need to go take care of them don lemon is still continuing to pepper him with questions he’s trying to be respectful the pastor but let’s roll bite three But did you try to talk to them as a Christian?
SPEAKER 13 :
No one is willing to talk.
SPEAKER 12 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 13 :
I have to take care of my church and my family. So I asked if you actually would also leave this building. You don’t want us to chronicle or whatever? Unless you’re here to worship. I’m always worship. I’m a Christian. Well, we’re here to worship. We’re here to worship. Okay.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you very much. I appreciate it. So that’s one of the pastors of the church. So that bike there, the pastor directly asks him, I would ask that you would leave unless you are here to worship. And Don Lemon has a cute response of, I’m always worshiping. I’m a Christian. No, you’re not. You’re not there to worship. You’re not there to participate in the worship service. But Don Lemon doesn’t leave. He continues to go and push his microphone in the faces of other congregants. He’s there for seven more minutes inside the building. And then decides to go outside and then we have that famous look, oh, the kid is clearly, you know, upset, is upsetting and traumatizing, which is the point. He is there as an activist. And yes, he may be documenting it, but he is, it’s not just someone there documenting without a purpose and not engaged in. He is engaged in it the entire time. He does not leave when asked to respectfully by the pastor. It is not as if it was outside in an open area and someone said, leave our protest. It’s like, well, no, I’m not going to. This is a continued disruption of the service that the pastor is trying to get under control and trying to ask people to leave. And the journalist here is refusing to also do so.
SPEAKER 03 :
And my concern will always be, If this was, again, the other side of the story, if this was a conservative reporter or someone more on the right doing the same thing, would we feel the same? And maybe you would feel the same. And that’s why I’m posing that question to you. Would you feel the same if that person happened to be on your side? I don’t agree with anything Don Lemon did in this. I don’t agree with really anything Don Lemon has ever done or will probably ever do. I didn’t think he did a good job at CNN. I think he had a lot of personal issues at CNN that obviously came up. And then I think he has done a poor job of keeping himself relevant. I think about the interview he did with Elon Musk and how inappropriate I thought that was. Now, again, I have to, though, think critically and think legally and start thinking about what the ramifications are when there is a Democrat in the White House. And that is surely to happen in our lifetime. I mean, let’s just look, the pendulum moves. It has our entire lives. It goes back and forth between Republicans and Democrats. And who has been the ones who have been censored the most over the last few years? It has been those on the right. And I do always have that tinge of going, but what if? I think what he did was wrong. I think what he did is disgusting. I don’t like him at all. I don’t like what he had to say. But there is a concern that I personally have, even though you said, yes, he’s engaging. And I agree, he’s engaging. I think he’s completely inappropriate and off base, even as a journalist. Do I believe he’s committing a federal crime? That is where the line I am not so sure on.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, when we look at what the FACE Act says, and once again, we don’t know what the specific charges is. There’s been some commentary. Maybe it’s a conspiracy to violate the FACE Act. Maybe it is actually a FACE Act violation. But Title 18 U.S. Code Section 248 is the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances codified version of the FACE Act violation. And what it says is the prohibited activities is whoever, and then you jump down to subsection two, by force or threat of force or by physical obstruction, intentionally injures, intimidates or interferes with or attempts to injure, intimidate or interfere with any person lawfully exercising or seeking to exercise the First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of worship. That’s the second subsection because it says the exact same thing in section one about Not obstructing, intimidating any of those same issues with someone trying to obtain or provide reproductive health services. It’s two sides of it. One, it’s to protect the abortion clinics, and then they got it codified by adding the houses of worship to it. And I think I want to go back to your your analogy as well. Like, think about what would happen. Think about what would happen under typically a Democrat administration if, say, Live Action or James O’Keefe, one of those organizations, went in when not just people outside protesting an abortion clinic, but actually entered into it to disrupt the services of that. That would be a violation of the FACE Act.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, you could say they did that with some of their investigation and with some of the, you know, when they would put on a costume and wear hidden cameras.
SPEAKER 05 :
And have meetings, right. But did they interrupt the services? That is the big question there. And I think that they would probably be charged along with the protesters that broke into the building in that case. That’s a hypothetical. We’d have to see how that plays out. You do have to be careful, but I think once again, when you see him talking to the pastor in that way, not letting him go, when he’s saying, I need to go take care of my congregation, it puts him in a different role from reporting to actually engaging in the activity of interfering with the worship service.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, I see your point. I think it’s blurry. We have a comment coming and said, come on, Logan, a conservative reporter, if they went into a leftist religious service, they’d be dragged off and jailed. That’s probably correct, and I don’t know, though, that that’s good. That’s not necessarily what we want. Now, do I think that if they went in and they were protesting and making a scene themselves that they should be? Yeah, probably. But if they were going in as just a reporter and they were just asking questions, I don’t want that to be what happens because I do believe in a very broad version of journalistic freedom. With that, we’ll continue the conversation. People are saying, you know, that it’s because of the ice storm that it hit my head. Things have happened. You know what? Maybe you’re right. I’m not on here defending Don Lemon. I’ll say that ad nauseum. I’m here discussing the ramifications of limiting the freedom that journalists have. I want to hear from you. We’re going to take some calls coming up in the next segment. Go to ACLJ.org for more info. Welcome back to Secular. We got a lot of calls, as expected. We’re going to take them. It is a Friday, and we want to make sure that you guys have an opportunity to speak as well. But, Will, this does tie in to the rest of Don Lemon, everything that’s happening right now in Minnesota. It does tie into a lot of the work we’re working on.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right, because today, and if you were watching on one of our streaming channels, whether it be YouTube or Rumble or Facebook, you saw a clip from a previous show when we announced the cert petition we have filed at the Supreme Court asking them to take a case that involves defamation in CNN. And the goal of that case is to try to get clarity, maybe update to a precedent called New York Times versus Sullivan, which has really built up this impenetrable wall for journalists, for media, saying that they can never really be charged with defamation because there’s this intent level that has to be reached. And so for a long time, they have had a much broader, much more leeway than even other people within the First Amendment that can be sued for things like this. So this is a case, Dershowitz versus CNN, that the ACLJ brought right at the end of December. Many of you remember that. And if you saw that clip, it’s really a landmark case if the Supreme Court takes it. Today is an important day. in this schedule as we wait to see if the Supreme Court will take it because today is the day that CNN’s response to our cert petition is due. They don’t have to file a response. If they do, then we will have a reply brief to their response due about two weeks from now, February 13th. However, there’s many ways this could even play out. If they decide not to, and the Supreme Court’s looking at this, they could compel them to respond to this. But right now, we are kind of eagerly watching the docket on the Supreme Court website to see if and when CNN’s response to our cert petition is filed. This, I think, goes back to what the whole discussion is, is that journalists in the United States right now, especially if you are with a big organization, have these even more heightened protections. It is within the same amendment as regular freedom of speech, freedom of worship. We know this freedom of assembly. But the freedom of the press category seems to have been. whether it be through supreme court precedent or through other actions this more heightened protection where normal citizens exercising their first amendment right would not be able to just defame yeah people for so many years have called me personally when maybe a hit piece comes out on them or their family or their organization and filled with lies you know filled with half truths
SPEAKER 03 :
And they’ve called me in tears often or not sure what to do, spinning out of control because they feel like their lives are being ruined by lies. And in any other circumstance, I’m usually able to say, well, we’ll take up your case. Let’s go work on it. Let’s go do it. When it comes to, like Will said, the broad, almost immunity that journalists have, And that really big news organizations have to spin a half truth or a lie, even when they knowingly know it to be untrue, has been broadly protected. So I have to have these weird conversations where I bring a lawyer on a phone call and I kind of have to say, especially if you’re a public figure, you’re a public figure. There is not much you can do. We can take this to court. It’s going to cost a lot of money and a lot of years of your time and likely you’re going to lose because as Will said, it has had this really broad sense of immunity, especially in the last decade. But That is where the ACLJ has finally had an opportunity to step in and make these adjustments to where at least they can’t continue repeating known lies. And the Supreme Court hopefully will take it up and will have an answer. And I believe there’s a good chance that we win this and we see a massive change in the way reporters are held accountable. So where I do think there is broad immunity in terms of, or there’s definitely a broad scale of what freedom of journalism is and when you’re there as a journalist and covering what you need to cover, I do think there is an opportunity to limit the lies. And it’s not about opinions. A lot of these are stated as facts. They’re stated as just what’s going on. They’re never even caveated often. or a correction comes out later on and it’s buried and never seen. There’s a lot that can be done to that.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right. And once again, I do think it ties into what we’re seeing here and we’ll get to phone calls. I know lines are jammed, but I want to play this also because it ties back to the Don Lemon story where the voicing and opinion and showing where you’re at on this issue. And I think it, it, gives you an insight into what his motives were there but this is bite nine this is after the fact after we saw what happened after he refused to leave when the pastor asked him to um he was on the i’ve had it podcast and talked about what his thoughts are on that church of which I don’t know if he did any research on that church, if he knew any of the people there, but it’s this casting them and defaming the people there in a wide sense. Now, he does say, I think, you know, it’s his opinion, but the ability for journalists to just feel so comfortable saying this out loud after saying, I was just there to chronicle this is shocking. This is bite nine.
SPEAKER 11 :
There’s a certain degree of entitlement. I think people who are, you know, in religious groups like that, it’s not the type of Christianity that I practice, but I think that they’re entitled and that that entitlement comes from a supremacy, a white supremacy. And they think that this country was built for them, that it is a Christian country when actually we left England because we wanted religious freedom. It’s religious freedom, but only if you’re a Christian and only if you’re a white male, pretty much. And so, yeah, I absolutely 100 percent. But it’s an intimidation tactic. And, you know, I said, I don’t understand how I’ve become the face of it. When I was a journalist, I do understand that I’m the biggest name there. And I’m also as I was on with my producers this morning, you know, you and Kylie talk all the time. My producers were saying, I said, how did I become the face of this? And my producer said, Don, you’re a gay black man in America.
SPEAKER 05 :
And once again, this is him ascribing motives for people there on a Sunday that were participating in a worship service. That is white supremacists because they were not at protests on Sunday morning. It is such a twisted demonic mindset. that he so comfortably spews that, you know, religious groups, it’s not the type of Christianity I practice. And we know that his type of Christianity is worship through journalism, I think, is what we took from the church service. But once again, he’s just sitting there defaming and chastising these people on a liberal podcast by saying that they are effectively white supremacist and that they don’t want others to have religious freedom.
SPEAKER 03 :
people yeah all right we only have about a minute left and we do have a lot of calls and i want to make sure we do get to you so in the next segments we’re going to take calls so stay on hold if you’re on hold if you’re not i don’t know how many lines we have open if any uh you can give us no lines open right now when we get to calls you’ll hear someone take a call usually by the time you have heard that it’s about you know probably takes 20 seconds for it to Get from my voice to your radio or to your stream. Line’s probably open, so you can give us a call. I do want to encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. Look at the incredible content we’re providing you there. Absolutely free. When you have these moments where we are going into a current battle with CNN and courts to change this shield that they have where they can do whatever they want, you’ve got to be a part of it. This is a big moment. So I encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. That’s at ACLJ.org. If you can support the work financially, it’s a great time to do it. Make a donation if you can. If not, though, subscribe on YouTube. Do something that costs you nothing. Just be a part of the team. It means a lot to us either way. Again, at ACLJ.org, though, you can get engaged, read great content, watch great content, and of course, if you can, support the work. Second half hour coming up. Find us on ACLJ.org on all social media platforms. keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever this is seculo and now your host logan seculo welcome to seculo second half hour coming up reporting on the breaking news that don lemon that’s right former cnn broadcaster and current church disruptor don lemon has been arrested now we don’t know all the information on what he’s been charged with but it means a grand jury decided Whatever he did was worth being arrested. This happened late last night at his hotel in Los Angeles preparing for the Grammy Awards. Opens up a slew of questions and conversations about journalists. Of course, they are arresting him because of his engagement in that church protest that happened in Minnesota Was it two weeks ago at this point? Close to two weeks ago. And of course his involvement there where maybe it’s because he was intimidating the pastor, maybe because he was getting involved more than a journalist should get involved. Again, I think that line can get a little blurry, but when I’ve asked you to call in, a lot of you called in. So let’s go ahead and take, is it Kathy who has been on hold the longest? Kathy, go ahead.
SPEAKER 08 :
I am so sure that because of prayer of God’s people, and the situation that’s going on in Minnesota, and now this with John Lemon, as well as many other things across the country, that the prayer of God’s people is being heard, and I look forward to things happening as a result of him hearing our prayers. I just encourage everybody who’s listening to do the same. Thank you.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and I also think, and I think it is important to point out here, one, Don Lemon wasn’t the only one arrested. We had the organizers that were arrested pretty quickly after. Obviously, that is a little bit easier to get a magistrate judge to sign off on if they organize this. And it looks like a textbook case of violation of the FACE Act or deprivation of rights cases that they charge these various individuals with. But once again, I’ve seen on social media people be like, oh, I can’t believe those people are out of jail, the ones that were arrested. Well, I can. Some were released on their own recognizance. They’re not seen as a flight risk. They are not guilty. They are innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. So, no, that makes sense for what they did. to be released on their own recognizance now at the same time uh if they were to go do that again i am in a church do the exact same thing i could see a judge putting a higher bond out there or potentially even uh some sort of other penalties or keeping them in custody for a No, I assume he’s been booked and released. I haven’t seen news that he’ll be in court.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think they said some point today.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. He’ll be arraigned. But typically with an offense like this, especially since they’re now the definition of violent.
SPEAKER 03 :
I was waiting for you to step in. Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
But they were non-violent. They broke the law. They interfered. They intimidated.
SPEAKER 03 :
Like I’ve had violent crimes go against me and the person gets released within a couple hours. So you know what? That’s not unheard of. I don’t think that’s right, by the way. But that is not unheard of in this country.
SPEAKER 05 :
But also they will have to go to trial and the government will have to prove their case. And that’s a good thing. That’s the way the judicial system works. There will be a jury in these cases that examine this and come to a decision whether or not they are guilty. And you know what? Don Lemon has one of the best lawyers in the country. Abby Lowell is defending him. So this isn’t, I would say, for the government, a slam dunk case against him, even though I personally believe that he has crossed the line and is violated some laws here. It doesn’t mean that he’s going to even see, even if he is guilty, a day in jail.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I think that that’s very unlikely. I think maybe there’s a fine there.
SPEAKER 05 :
Maybe there’s probation. Nonviolent physical obstruction is a category within the penalties of the FACE Act. And that’s a fine of $10,000 and not more than six months. I would find it hard-pressed to see him serving real-time, even if he is found guilty. And I know that’s going to make a lot of people mad. Yeah, you watch his YouTube channel, though.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s probably getting that $10,000. He’s already raised it. He’s already probably raised it just from conservatives hate-watching it. So that’s the truth. Phone lines are open for you. Take more calls, 1-800-684-3110, or go to aclj.org. Welcome back to Secula. We’re going to keep taking calls on the Don Lemon arrest. Now look, we were just watching some clips and there are some reports that Don Lemon got involved in the protest, was part of the chanting. At that point, you have crossed the line. You are no longer just there as a journalist. If you are actually getting involved in the protest itself, again, I don’t know what the full scope of the crime will be. As Will said, I don’t think a lot of these people will go to jail for a very long time. um but i do think that maybe is where the line gets crossed if you’re just there asking questions pushing people even if you think you know the pastor’s that says i need to get back to my flock there is adult responsibility where the pastor could just ignored him and moved on uh but kept engaging with him so of course you got to take that into consideration we got to take some more calls though you say it was melissa on line three melissa you’re on the air
SPEAKER 07 :
Hi, I am just so glad that Don Lemon’s been arrested for the sheer fact of the hassle, the cost, the time, the energy that’s going to go into taking or things that will be taken away from him so that we’ll have to go through this process. I hope that at some point he has some enlightenment, quote unquote. I don’t really know how he his relationship with God is really solid based on his book and his behavior. But I’m just really glad that he has to go through the hassle of all these things, no matter what the outcome is. It’s very obvious he stopped the pastor from doing his job. That’s my comment.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think that there is a hassle of it. There’s an annoyance. Now, do I think this is what Don Lemon wanted?
SPEAKER 1 :
100%.
SPEAKER 03 :
I can’t say with 100% certainty. But he would like to be a celebrity again. He loves that we have made him a topic of conversation over the last few weeks. And not to say that he doesn’t justifiably earn that because the fact that this keeps happening. So as much as the, oh, he has to go through this, the pain of being, I don’t think that is what he’s thinking. I think he’s thinking, my name’s in lights again. And look. We have represented protesters in the past. I will tell you there’s a couple different versions of their personality traits. Sometimes they are that type of person. Not going to lie. Sometimes you meet one of these people that goes around and protests, even for causes that you agree with, and you may realize their personality trait is someone who wants to be arrested and see themselves on television.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and I think to that point as well, the annoyance factor for Don Lemon, the hassle of going through it, his YouTube channel is live right now. And the super chats on YouTube are pouring in. Exactly. He is… Milking it. Probably thrilled with the reaction of his audience.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, don’t go leave for those who are watching. No, no, don’t go see it. So, Will, I think, just promoted to switch the channel. He just Tony Schiavone-ed it. No, he’s not even on, by the way.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, he’s going to say… He has a panel of people on, probably his team. Don’t say Mankind is going to win the title. Everyone’s going to flip over. Right. Well, this is not in case anyone got that wrestling reference that it’s not the same.
SPEAKER 01 :
I love you.
SPEAKER 05 :
But there was a question that was interesting here before we go to another call because someone said in the chat on YouTube, Logan, why did you call Don Lemon a journalist? And I think this is where I think you and I will differ with a lot of people that are watching the broadcast is that it is a good thing, the democratization of media and platforms and the ability to get your message out and to… Report on things. Be independent media. I always take a little bit of an issue with people that say, if you are giving an opinion, you cannot be a journalist. I don’t think the history of journalism, I’ve studied that. I’ve studied journalism.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, that’s not right.
SPEAKER 05 :
i’ve studied the press i have a master’s in journalism and i do think that by ignoring a very important category in in media and in journalism opinion journalism that you shut down the that entire category you can be an opinion journalist and still have protection of the freedom of press Now, it doesn’t mean you get to violate the law in the furtherance of reporting on your opinion. I think Nicholas Shirley in Minnesota that was reporting on the assumption he had that there was widespread fraud. I think he was conducting journalism. He had an opinion about what was going on and comes from a point of view. I think that that is independent journalism. Now, the difference with what he did And what happened with Don Lemon is that when he went to those and the left was outraged about him hassling and annoying the daycare centers, he knocked on the door. And if people wouldn’t talk to him, he left. When they asked him to leave, he left. When the police showed up and said, you need to leave this building. And they said, why? We’re just asking questions. They left. They followed the instructions to protect their journalistic activity. That is not what Don Lemon did here. And I think he can be a bad journalist. He can be not good at journalism and he could have violated laws here, but still be a journalist. And I think that I want to be careful with that term that it is protected in some ways as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, because I mean, ourselves here, I mean, I wouldn’t necessarily label myself in this scenario doing this show every day. I wouldn’t label myself a journalist, but I certainly think that we could probably qualify for that label for a lot of people. That’s a different story altogether. Now, there are there more calls we want to get to right now. Yes, there are. We’ve got next up. Sorry, our phone lines are a little messed up with the computer still with the power out. Can you believe this? Folks, you’ve got to also be looking at what’s going on in Nashville, Tennessee. There are still members of our team who are going on a week with almost a week with no power. So say a prayer for our team, including a lot of people. And look, this is going to be something that has to be investigated and looked at very thoroughly of what…
SPEAKER 05 :
you know went wrong we i’ve only had power at my house for just a little over 24 hours uh it has been pretty chaotic and the internet lines are that’s one of the reasons why our our normal software isn’t working because people in the area keep intermittently just losing the internet because of that storm in the infrastructure but let’s go to mary ellen on line five mary ellen you’re on seculo oh hello fellas i just want to say well first of all
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m so happy Lemon was arrested and, you know, this has taken that course. You know, and I agree with all of that. However, I also listened to the left-wingers, you know, what they’re saying. And I remember them saying, oh, well, we went in there after the service ended. And my question is, When did the service end? When did the pastor just stop preaching up at the pulpit? And I remember at my own church… You know, when we stay afterward for prayer time, that’s a sacred time.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s actually not that. We know what happened here, which was an interruption of a service. They will claim that it was not an interruption, that they just started to ask questions in the middle of the service as if that’s a normal thing that happens in traditional church services.
SPEAKER 05 :
But we know that kind of after the time of worship… Right, after the songs, period, and there was a prayer by the pastor, and that is then when they… And the organizer admitted it, which I think was worse for her. We didn’t barge in and start chanting. She stood up to interrupt the service.
SPEAKER 03 :
Asking about a potential pastor who worked there who may have been working for ICE. And then I believe the pastor responded with something of this is inappropriate. Please stop. And then. And then they completely derailed the service.
SPEAKER 05 :
So even their own words was it was in the middle of the service and we interrupted it for the purpose of interrupting it, which is whoever by force or threat or force or by physical obstruction intentionally injures, intimidates or interferes with or or attempts to injure, intimidate, or interfere with any person lawfully exercising or seeking to exercise the First Amendment right of religious freedom at a place of religious worship. So the interference there is exactly what they admit to doing, which is a violation of the law. They went into the service and in the middle of it waited. to do it. It wasn’t even during the songs breaking in. And I do think it was remarkable almost to see the reaction of many of the people in that congregation. Obviously, a lot of them left, but that they responded to it not by getting in the face of the protesters. The security team, you can see, got there, but they started playing music and many of them either started praying or worshiping. They combated this act of interruption by worshiping more. And I feel like that is the complete difference of when Don Lemon is saying, no, I worship anywhere I am. The congregation continued to try and worship and be faithful on that Sunday morning when all the other people were trying everything within their power to stop them from doing that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Listen, we’ve only got one segment left. I want you to be a part of the show today. I think we’ve opened up a couple lines, probably. 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. When you hear something like the arrest of Don Lemon, former CNN anchor, of course it ties you back to CNN. And who are we currently in court with? CNN. Today is CNN’s deadline to respond to our, what we feel like is a groundbreaking case, a cert petition of the United States Supreme Court. We’re asking the justices to hear a case today. where we can finally get to some journalistic integrity even, where you’re not allowed to just continually spew a lie, a knowing lie, something you know to be untrue, because you are quote-unquote protected. And that is what the ACLJ is in court in right now. So I encourage you to go to ACLJ.org. Support the work financially. We know mainstream media has some deep pockets, and we need your help, and we could use your support. So go to ACLJ.org right now. We’ll be back with your calls and comments. Last segment coming up. Welcome back to Seculo. We are going to take as many calls as we can, so keep calling 1-800-684-3110. Will, who we got? We got Mario on line four.
SPEAKER 05 :
You’re on Seculo. Yahoo! How are you doing, gentlemen? Doing well.
SPEAKER 10 :
I guess we’re not going to be making any lemonade around this time, so… I mean, Don Lemon got exactly what he wanted. He wanted attention. Now he’s got attention, but now he’s got to suffer consequences. I believe that he just… He went out on a limb for the rest of the journalists thinking, you know, you know how you bend a bar. I think he’s breaking it to see how far he can go. And he’s going to suffer consequences for that. But he can’t call himself a Christian. I’m a minister. I’ve been a minister 28 years. And we know how far we can go. We don’t force things on people. We invite them. And what he did was he forced himself to cross over into somebody else’s amendment and And thinking he’s right. And I think he pushed it. He broke the bar. He didn’t bend it. He broke it. And he knew it. But he just kept doing it really nonchalant, thinking he’s trying to be cute about it. And now he’s going to suffer consequences for all the other journalists and all the other journalists. Well, my first comment, no. You can’t cross over into somebody else’s First Amendment, which is what he did.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I think you’re right. Mario, that’s a good word. Cute about it. I think that is kind of true. When you listen to his tone and the way his personality kind of shines in this, when he says to the pastor, I’m a Christian, I’m a worshiper, I’m always worshiping, it’s There is a tinge of sarcasm through all of it. There’s a tinge of sarcasm or there’s a tinge of dislike when he sees a child being comforted by his father or by his mother after they just went through a traumatic experience. And again, anyone who’s been in a church recently, anyone who’s been in your school even, movie theater. You know that the back of your mind, especially when you’re a parent, is checking where the exits are, making sure you understand where you’re safe and where you’re not safe. It’s a sad state of reality, but it’s where we’re at. Don Lemon seemed to gloat in love in it. Now, I’ll never question anyone’s religious beliefs. Don Lemon says he’s a Christian. I’m not someone who’s going to be on here. I am not the judge and jury of someone’s beliefs. He may very much practice a different form of Christianity than you practice, likely, but that is not for me to decide. That being said, there’s the two big issues here that I have. And really sort of that third one, which is how far did he participate in this? Did he participate in the point where he got involved in the protest? How do we make that determination? I said, if he’s chanting along with people, yeah, that’s it. That’s the line. That’s so easy. And that is so clear. If he’s just there and he’s asking questions of the pastor and he went in with this group, I don’t know if I personally know if that’s a federal crime because I don’t want that kind of same structure to then be playing back on conservative journalists or just independent journalists or, honestly, mainstream journalists.
SPEAKER 05 :
We actually have an interesting call. I’m going to cut line a little bit here, but this is Linda calling from North Carolina on Line 5. Linda, you’re on Seculo.
SPEAKER 02 :
Good day. Good day. Hello. How’s everyone?
SPEAKER 05 :
Doing well. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 02 :
That is great. Yes. I was listening to your show on the network that I watch and just reading a little bit of it today. Of course, I didn’t see the actual protest online. I just look at it from both sides. Being a born-again believer and a follower of Jesus Christ, I just look at it from, I’ve heard the comments and the calls. I don’t believe that it is proper to go in and interrupt a church service for people that are there that genuinely love Jesus Christ or maybe people that are unsafe and are going to be brought to Jesus Christ through some word, of course, through the Holy Spirit. However, I’m grateful that I live in a country where, and I studied journalism, of course, and love journalism, love reading. I live in a country where I’m so grateful that I have freedom of speech. I see that. Um, and I love that. I think as a reporter, of course, everything I’ve read, I don’t see where he’s made a statement about it. And I may not agree with, um, maybe his personal lifestyle, um, uh, or something that someone would say, but I don’t want to, um, openly defame him. And I don’t think, um, everything that I’ve watched, um, watching women over the years, um, bits and pieces. I don’t think that he, I think that he’s like most Americans, even, I’m born again, believers and followers of Jesus Christ. I’m a part of that also. I’m tired. I’m tired of people saying things about something small. It’s big, but it’s small compared to a president that has said that years ago he could kill someone and hold a gun and nothing would happen to him and just say things like- Look, I’m only cutting you off because we have three minutes left and it’s not exactly what you said you were talking about.
SPEAKER 03 :
I understand it though. Look, I’m not, you’ve heard my point of view on this. I have been saying a very different thing. Now, what I don’t like that you kind of got there at the end, which is, well, Trump said this, so therefore Don Lemon can say this. I think we have messed up completely in that sort of game where all of a sudden it’s like, well, he said these words. So now I get to say these words. He got, Tim Walls got to inflame the protesters. Now Donald Trump gets to inflame the ice ages. No, I don’t feel like we have to play that game anymore. We need to actually look through our own eyes, not through a political partisan eyes. We need to look through our own eyes and make a decision. Do I agree with anything that Don Lemon has said or will say or probably will ever say about this issue? No, I do not. Do I think that he potentially broke laws? I think we’re going to find out. We’re going to find out what they were and we’ll get to that. Do I think getting involved in just covering something and being an aggressive journalist is enough for that? I don’t know. I would tend to say no, but that’s not my decision to be made. I do want to push forward though this notion that we have to each meet up with each other’s own angst or each other’s own anger. Not in this world, because what happens is people end up dead on the streets. And we can’t have that when it happened a year ago to Lincoln Riley, or it happened a week ago in the protest that have happened.
SPEAKER 05 :
I do want to get to one more call, but I have two quick updates. One, we now know the charges that Don Lemon has been charged with per the LA Times.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, hello.
SPEAKER 05 :
He is being charged with conspiracy to deprive rights and violation of the FACE Act. So to an interfering by force of someone’s First Amendment rights. So these are the charges, according to a Justice Department spokesperson telling the L.A. Times. Also interesting in our Dershowitz versus CNN case, CNN has officially waived their right to respond to our cert petition. which is interesting, meaning they are not putting up a defense of why the Supreme Court should not take it at this stage of the game. Now, does that because they believe that it’s not going anywhere? Maybe. Is it because they are just fine with it moving on and want to try to impact case law? We don’t know that, but it is a very interesting development today as we continue to fight in court.
SPEAKER 03 :
Maybe they’re all lawyers, like, about time.
SPEAKER 05 :
I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s the case. Let’s try really quickly to get to Suzanne on line two, calling from Maryland. Suzanne, you got about 30 seconds, but you’re on Seculo.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, the FACE Act provides protection for church and synagogues as sanctuary holy places standing for life. Abortion surgery rooms are sanctuaries… protected by the FACE Act, standing for death. Are we saying that the media should have equal access to both churches, synagogues, sanctuaries, and to surgery rooms where these abortions are being performed.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I mean, that is one of the reasons why he is being charged. I also believe that if it were a conservative journalist going in with protesters into an abortion center, they would probably get charged as well. For sure. But the old saying that has been on this by your dad for a long time is that the left worships at the altar of abortion. That is how they got the FACE Act to pass. The left and their worship centers were protected by the FACE Act, and the right, that’s the only way they got it through.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, Will, I saw one comment that came in and said, you said Don Lemon has the best attorneys in the country, but I always say the ACLJ has the best attorneys in the country. I said one of the best attorneys in the country. See, that one supported the work of the ACLJ. Not what Will said. ACLJ.org.
