Welcome to the Kim Monson Show podcast. Kim Monson is your host. Christmas was not celebrated at our Founding. The Puritans associated Christmas celebrations with the Roman and Greek pagan revelry regarding the winter solstice. Founder of the Legacy Project Stan Everitt discusses the history of Christmas in America and the revival of Christian faith happening now. Mateen Elass grew up in Saudi Arabia. Elass shares his journey as the son of a Syrian Muslim to a Christian pastor today. Cattleman Jim May shares his Happy Holidays cowboy poem. ————————————————————————————– The Kim Monson Show airs on KLZ 560 AM
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It’s the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
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An early childhood taxing district? What on earth is that?
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The latest in politics and world affairs.
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I don’t think that we should be passing legislation that is so complicated that people kind of throw up their hands and say, I can’t understand that.
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Today’s Current Opinions and Ideas.
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And it’s not fair just because you’re a big business that you get a break on this and the little guy doesn’t.
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Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
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Indeed, and welcome to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You’re each treasured, you’re valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history, and I have an amazing team that I work with. That’s producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Be sure and check out my website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. That way you’ll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And you can listen to the show on all KLZ 560 platforms online. We are on 6 to 8 a.m. Monday through Friday. The first hour is rebroadcast 1 to 2 in the afternoon, second hour 10 to 11 at night. And those platforms are KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM, anywhere in the world on the KLZ website and KLZ app. And then once our… Summaries are posted at my website. Those podcasts then can be heard on the streaming services such as Spotify and iTunes. We are pre-recording for this week of Christmas. And I’m very pleased to have on the line with me Mateen Alas. And he has written a book, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality. And a very important book. Mateen, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you so much, Kim. It’s always a pleasure to be on your show.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and you’ve got quite a story. You were born to a Syrian Muslim father. And it says about the author, you grew up in a world immersed in the heart of Islam and no stranger to theological and religious study, having earned two master’s degrees. in theology and divinity, and a PhD in New Testament studies from the University of Durham. Your scholarship has spanned Christian and Islamic research, issuing a number of books drawing from both fields. And so you grew up Muslim, but you are now a Christian, correct?
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s correct. I grew up in Saudi Arabia, and my father was a Muslim, practicing Muslim, Sunni, but by the time we got old enough in our pre-teens and early teens, he had pretty much retreated from the practice of Islam, although he still was very direct on wanting to maintain his identity as a Muslim. Sort of a social Muslim, but not an active practicing religious Muslim.
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So what about your journey? How did you end up from there to becoming a Christian?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it was a long journey. I started a search probably when I was about 13 years old. The Islam that I was immersed in was not very attractive to me. The Wahhabi version in Saudi Arabia is a very dry, dusty, legalistic version of Islam where Allah is, of course, supreme, but very distant. And your life… spiritually speaking depends on your being obedient to all of the commands of Allah that are a part of Islam and that was not appealing to me so I started off on my own search I couldn’t look at the Bible that was just not really possible in our family situation so I turned eastward and got involved in the study of eastern mysticism so much so that by the time I was 19 I went over to India one summer to the school or the ashram of a particular guru and studied under him and was then licensed by his school to teach classical yoga. I did that for a little while, but my time in India was actually a watershed moment for me. I realized that the questions that I had were not being answered by Eastern mysticism. And that left me kind of adrift for a year. But I had a number of high school and college friends who were Christians, Americans. And in the summertime in Saudi Arabia, we would get together and they were the ones who actually started to feed my curiosity. And ultimately, They challenged me. I was a philosophy major at that time at Stanford University, but they challenged me to read the Gospels for myself and to find out who this Jesus was that they loved and worshipped and that I was curious about. So I did that, and that was a transformative experience for me. As a philosophy major, I studied Eastern and Western philosophers, leaders of religious movements as well as secular movements. And so I came to the New Testament with a fair amount of background, general background on matters of philosophical and religious interest. But I’d never, ever read the Gospels. I knew almost nothing about Jesus except what you pick up in American culture, and that’s not necessarily a great thing. But when I read the Gospels, I was just blown away by the person of Jesus that appears in those four Gospels.
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And so that’s, when did you realize that you were a Christian? When did you confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, that happened in September of 1975. After I finished the Gospels, I was convinced that this guy Jesus was unique, but I knew the Christians were saying, well, the reason he’s unique is because he’s God who has become a human being. And I thought, well, that’s just way too wild to believe. But the more I continued to read and to discuss with people, the more I came to the point of saying, I don’t know anyone who has life figured out like Jesus does. And if there’s anyone worth giving your life to follow, it would have to be this guy. So I said, you know, how do I become a follower? Still wasn’t sure about the divine power. qualities of Jesus completely. But I said, he’s the one I want to give my life to follow after. And it was at that point that I recognized that he had full claim on my life. So I prayed a prayer saying, Jesus, if you’re really there, I know that you’re able to hear me. and I asked you if you would take me to be a student of yours. Of course, that’s what the word disciple means in the New Testament, but I didn’t really realize that. I was still thinking in terms of a guru and a student studying under his guru. But very quickly after I prayed that prayer, I was drawn into the Christian community, and I felt like there’d been this battle going on inside my head, almost like a physical tug of war between my old Eastern mystical beliefs and these new beliefs as a follower of Christ. And that tension was palpable to me. But when I made the decision and prayed to ask Christ to come into my life and make me his disciple, suddenly I was off the fence. No longer was there that tension that I’d made I made a decision, and I’d been brought into the camp of Christ. And so there was great peace and joy in that decision. So that was 1975, and I’ve never regretted that decision.
SPEAKER 13 :
So you and I have talked before, and your father, who you said was a social Muslim, was not very excited about this, though, was he?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, that’s a nice way of putting it. And this is an interesting point. Even though he was not a committed Muslim religiously, he still saw himself as a Muslim. And one of the worst things for a Muslim in terms of his or her community is to be embarrassed or shamed before your family and friends. And so I went home. Christmas of 1975, you know, Christmas break. And I was so excited. And I’d always shared with my father my explorations, spiritually speaking, and he’d never had any issues with me. Even when I went over to study in India, he helped me make that trip possible. But when I told him that Christmas that I’d become a follower of Jesus, he just exploded. And nobody in the family had ever seen him that angry, you know, volcanically angry. And he told me it just was not permissible. I could not do that. I was betraying my heritage. I was stabbing him in the back. I would put family members, you know, all Muslim family members in the Middle East in danger. And it was just not permissible. I’d have to recant. And I told him, well, no, this is the decision I’ve made. I can’t go back on it. And we had about three days of very emotionally trying arguments back and forth. And when he realized that I wasn’t going to change, he cut me off at that point. He wouldn’t talk to me any longer. And one of the things he had told me in the time of argumentation was that if I decided I was going to continue to be a Christian, I would no longer be allowed in the family. I wouldn’t be welcome in the home. I wouldn’t be able to continue a relationship with him or with the rest of the family. So, and that’s the one thing of the four things he told me would be consequences of my decision. That was the one that actually ended up being carried out. And so when I left After Christmas break that year, I thought I was never going to see my family again. Fortunately, that didn’t turn out to be the case. After 14 years, she relented and welcomed me back in the family with my wife and kids now at that point.
SPEAKER 13 :
But it took 14 years, huh? Yeah. I think that’s important to note, Annette, to never give up on prayer. Do you pray daily, Mateen?
SPEAKER 08 :
I do. My parents, of course, have both passed away now, but I have three siblings. And as a result of my faith and my outspokenness as a pastor and as a writer, especially now on Islam, my three siblings have cut me off and they don’t want to have anything to do with me. So even though we’re not in contact, I pray nightly for them. I pray for God to soften their hearts towards him and as a result, then to soften their hearts towards me as well.
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Yeah, these prayers, this daily prayer is so, so important. I’m talking with Mateen Alas, and we’re going to talk about his book, Fairytale Islam, when we come back. The show comes to you because of amazing sponsors, and one of those great sponsors is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. Roger’s been in business for 48 years, taking care of his clients and his family and his community. And to give them a call at 303-795-8855 for a complimentary appointment, like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan team is there.
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Welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our Web site. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for a weekly email newsletter and you can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we are pre-recording the shows for this Christmas week. And before we get back to Mateen, alas, I wanted to mention the Center for American Values, which is a nonprofit that I dearly love. They’re nonpolitical. They’re nonpartisan. But they focus on these foundational principles of America, of honor, integrity, and patriotism. And they do that through their portraits of valor of our Medal of Honor recipients, as well as some great educational programs. So be sure… And check out their website. They are located in Pueblo on the beautiful Riverwalk. And I would recommend make a day of it and go down and visit the center. There’s some great restaurants then as well. And that website is AmericanValueCenter.org. That’s AmericanValueCenter.org. On the line with us is Mateen Alas, and he is a pastor. He’s an author. So, Mateen, how many books have you written?
SPEAKER 08 :
Thanks, Kim. I’ve written four books. The first one I did as a pastor, my denomination, I was part of the Presbyterian Church. They asked me to write a book on the Holy Spirit for the denomination. So that was the earliest book. And then I’ve written three books since then, all dealing with Islam. The first one was called Understanding the Quran, A Quick Christian Guide to the Muslim Holy Book. And then a book called The Teachings of Jesus and Muhammad, And then this most recent one that came out this year, Fairytale Islam.
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And if people are looking for your book, you can put it. It’s Mateen, M-A-T-E-E-N, and then Alas is spelled E-L-A-S-S. So when you’re looking for those books, that is what you would be searching under. Let’s talk about this, your latest book, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality. And you said in the book that one of the first things that people will learn is that the Orthodox Islam is not a benign religion playing nicely in the world of Western multiculturalism. That’s a big one. So let’s talk about it.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. Yeah, the reason I wrote this book was because most of the Western world has a very misguided perception of what Islam truly teaches. And because in the Western world we’ve been raised to understand that religions, by and large, are good, and people of different religious traditions are able to get along well together, we just sort of assume that Islam must be the same kind of ilk. But in fact, Islam is a completely different kind of religious animal. It’s a religion that is also political. And so Islam as a faith teaches that the whole world is ultimately to be submerged under an Islamic The world is to come into submission to the teachings of Muhammad, which are the teachings of Islam. So if you understand what Islam really teaches, you recognize that Islam can’t play nicely in the playground of multiculturalism because its mandate is to try to conquer the whole world, to put all beliefs under the thumb of Islam. and to eradicate things that are false, that is, that don’t agree with Islam. So Islam is not a benign religion if you’re someone who doesn’t want to be a Muslim.
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You know, as you were just saying this, I know a number of people over the years, a number of women who have married Muslim men But I cannot think of one example that I know of where there has been an American man that I know that’s married a Muslim woman. Am I just missing something? Talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s forbidden in Islam. Western women, the way Islamic law puts it is that women who are monotheistic, but not Muslim, in other words, Christians, Jews, the Quran speaks of a group called the Sabians, anyone who’s monotheistic, a Muslim man can marry. And she doesn’t have to become a Muslim, but he can marry her and, of course, then have a family with her, or she can be one of his four wives. But a Muslim woman man can never excuse me a muslim woman can never be married to a non-muslim man the main reason for that is is that the progeny of any marriage relationship in islam is seen as as uh belonging to the man the head of the household so a muslim woman could not marry a christian man for instance and have children because those children then would be under the authority of the christian And in Islam, that would not be permitted. So non-Muslim women can be married to Muslim men, but non-Muslim men cannot be married to Muslim women.
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And in this first bullet point, thank you for clarifying that, you mentioned Western multiculturalism, which that has, I think, become very dangerous for Western sovereignty, like for the United States, this whole multiculturalism. And I think maybe people are starting to revisit that a little bit. What’s your experience on that?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I agree with you that the pendulum has swung way too far in the direction of multiculturalism in the sense that we now do not prioritize Western culture over other cultures. We just say, well, it’s just a playing field where everybody can field a team and play on the field and we won’t prioritize or favor one particular culture. So in America, we have sort of given up on Judeo-Christian fundamentals that were the building blocks of our Western culture. And we’re now bringing in or allowing all different kinds of cultures and wanting to try to treat them all equally, which is impossible. And I think we’re sowing the seeds for the destruction of Western democracy, Western culture. by embracing multiculturalism.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and I think that people, many people are waking up to this, though. We see this in the most recent election on Make America Great Again, that tagline, that people, I think, have realized that this whole American idea— Which is based on this idea that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, that that is something that is worth conserving and preserving, Mateen.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, absolutely. I think the problem, Kim, is that we’ve lost the foundational beliefs that allow us to declare that all human beings are created equal and that God has given us these unalienable rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. We like to start there, but we don’t want to have the foundation underneath it, which is the Judeo-Christian biblical foundation. And once you cut loose from that, then you no longer have any necessity believe any longer that human beings are created equal and that there are these unalienable rights and so as we’ve drifted away from our moorings biblical moorings we’ve drifted away from these teachings that all human beings are equal before the sight of God and before one another and that these rights are part of a God given blessing for the human race
SPEAKER 13 :
And we really need to be reclaiming that. And again, I think we’re in the third founding of America right now, Mateen. And obviously, the first was the Revolutionary War, the second, the Civil War. But we are in this huge battle of ideas at this particular point in time. And it’s a battle between, I think, good and evil, right versus wrong. And I think that I think that we are in the third founding of our country, and hopefully more and more people are standing up to engage in this battle of ideas that’s occurring right now, Mateen.
SPEAKER 08 :
I sure hope you’re right. This is one of the reasons, Kim, to go back to the topic of Islam, that Islam cannot be a part of that third founding of our nation. because Islam teaches a completely different worldview. In Islam, human beings are not created as creatures of God that are equal to one another and are created in the image and likeness of God himself. In Islam, human beings are simply slaves that God has created to do his bidding. And a slave has no rights except whatever Allah, the God of Islam, chooses to give individuals. So there’s no basis to allow all human beings of whatever beliefs they might have to exist equally within that culture. Islam teaches that only Muslims can. are ultimately blessed by God and that those who refuse to become Muslims are the enemies of God and are to be destroyed or subjugated. So that’s why Islam doesn’t play well in the field of multiculturalism or even just Western culture.
SPEAKER 13 :
Right. And wow, this brings up a whole lot of other questions. I’m talking with Mateen Alas regarding his book, his latest book, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality. We have these important discussions because of our sponsors. And this is a very important story about how I got to know them. And that is Hooters Restaurants. It was when I was on city council there. and realized it really was a freedom and a capitalism question. And you can find that whole story at my website at KimMunson.com. But they have five locations, Loveland Aurora, Lone Tree Westminster, and Colorado Springs. And it is a great place to get together with friends and family to watch the games. And they do have specials Monday through Friday for lunch and for happy hour. And you can get all that information at my website. And we have all of these important discussions because of our sponsors. And one of those is Karen Levine for Everything Residential Real Estate.
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Something’s a good idea. You shouldn’t have to force people to do it. And a nonprofit that I dearly love and support on the show is the USMC Memorial Foundation Foundation. They do amazing work. They’re in the process of raising the money to remodel the Marine Memorial out at Sixth and Colfax. This is the official Marine Memorial here for the United States. And it was dedicated in 1977. And the facelift that they have planned is amazing. You can get more information if you go to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That is usmcmemorialfoundation.org. We are pre-recording these shows with very special guests for this week of Christmas. And we’re talking with Mateen Alas, who has written four books. And he grew up to a Syrian Muslim father. And Mateen found Christ. And he is a pastor. And you can find him at Voice of Truth. Is that correct, Mateen?
SPEAKER 08 :
Voice of the Truth.
SPEAKER 13 :
Voice of the Truth. Okay. So be sure and check that out. But let’s—this book that you’ve written, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality, you said that Islam is really not a religion of Abraham and should not be grouped together with Judaism and Christianity. But I’ve heard that, that all three, because my understanding was— that the forebearer of Islam was, was it Ishmael, who was a son of Abraham? So my understanding was that’s how everything’s connected.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, yeah, that’s the party line, for sure. That’s the image or the history as Islam wants to portray it, that the Arabs are descendants of Abraham through Ishmael whereas the Jews are descendants of Abraham through Isaac but when you look at the actual evidence DNA kind of evidence and family lineages and all there’s no way to connect the Arab peoples directly with the line of Ishmael so That’s something that’s up for debate. But the more important reality is that the picture that the Quran gives of Abraham and his journeys throughout the Holy Land are completely different than what we find in the Old Testament. If you take the Old Testament as sort of the lodestone, the thing that gives you bearings on the history of the Jewish people, and then you compare how the Quran speaks of Abraham, you see two completely different storylines. Abraham, in the Quran, goes down to Mecca, and he and Ishmael build the Kaaba, the cubical building that’s there in the center of the Grand Mosque of Mecca. There’s no historical evidence at all that Abraham ever made it down the 600 plus miles from the southernmost part of what we now consider Israel today, Beersheba, that he ever got any further south. But Islam has to claim that Abraham went down there. The Quran declares that Ishmael and his mother Hagar were abandoned by Abraham in the desert area there not up in the Holy Land as the Bible as the Old Testament has it and so Islam creates through the teachings of Muhammad a completely different history of Abraham than the Genesis accounts do and so in the end you have to say well they can’t both be true which one is more likely? The story that is passed on from the descendants of Abraham on through the Jewish nation, or an Arab who had no connection with Abraham and the Jewish people, and 600 years after the birth of Christ, he now comes up with a story and he says, this is the way it really happened. So although the West has bought this notion that that there are three Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism and Christianity cohere together. You can see the history of how the Christian faith develops out of the trajectory of Judaism. But Islam comes in as a late player, 600 years after Judaism. the death of Christ and says, no, no, no, wait, you Jews and Christians got it wrong. This is who the real Abraham was. And we, in fact, are the true descendants of Abraham. We are the ones who really have preserved the faith of Abraham, where you Jews and Christians have perverted it.
SPEAKER 13 :
That is really interesting. Didn’t Ishmael eventually become reconciled with Abraham in the Bible?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, there’s question about that. I mean, Ishmael continued to have some kind of relationship. And indeed, even after Abraham dies, Ishmael and Isaac have a… They come back together at Abraham’s death. But there’s no sense in the Scripture that the Jews and the descendants of Ishmael ever… become best buddies again. The teaching or the prophecy about Ishmael is that, according to the English language, I think it was from the King James, that Ishmael would be a wild ass of a man. That is, that he’d always be someone who would not get along with others well. He’d stay out in the desert areas. He would not become socialized and become part of the Jewish or the Semitic families going forward. He’d be kind of a loner. Although the scriptures do say, I mean, there’s the prophecy that God would make Ishmael a great nation himself, that he would have 12 sons and they would become heads of nations. But there would always be this barrier between Ishmael and the descendants of Isaac.
SPEAKER 13 :
So, Mateen, if I’m hearing you right, you’re saying that even though the Muslim faith claims Ishmael, that may not be true, right? Am I hearing that correctly?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, yeah, you’re hearing me correctly. There’s a lot of reason to dispute that. There’s no direct evidence. And indeed, Islam today wants to see itself not as a religion for the Arabs or simply for the descendants of Ishmael, but rather as a religion for the whole world. So in some senses, Islam wants to play down the Arabic roots of Islam. But on the other hand, If you’re an Arab and a Muslim, you’re sort of a first-order citizen of Islam. Those who are not Arabs and don’t speak Arabic as their native tongue are always sort of second-class citizens within the world of Islam.
SPEAKER 13 :
But that’s antithetical to at least the ideal of the American ideal or idea is that we’re all created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. So those two things cannot exist in the same space, right? A second-class citizen, which is pushed forward by a political religion. And then this idea that we’re all created equal. Those two things cannot exist in the same space is what I think I hear you say.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it’s an odd reality that the claim of Islam is that Muhammad was sent by Allah for the whole world. But if you want to understand Islam correctly, you have to be able to read and interpret the Koran. But the Koran is only the Koran in Arabic. So even though maybe one-sixth of the world is Arab, no, excuse me, not one-sixth of the world, one-sixth of the Muslim world is Arab, and so you have 16% of the Muslim world that can speak Arabic as a native. The other 84% have to learn enough Arabic to at least be able to say their prayers, the five daily prayers, because those have to be said in Arabic, even if you don’t speak Arabic. You have to learn the sounds and speak those sounds. And then if you want to have any kind of status in the Muslim world, you have to be able to recite the Quran. And, of course, you can only recite it in Arabic because that’s the language that it was revealed in. It’s considered to be the language of heaven for Muslims. So if you’re not a native Arab, you automatically are relegated to a second-class religion. status within Islam. And you have to work even harder to try to learn Arabic if you’re going to try to excel within Islam. You have to work hard to learn classical Arabic, which even native Arabs don’t speak. And then you have to learn how to interpret the Quran. You have to read the ancient commentators, or else rely upon someone else who has already done that, and you learn from them. So Islam is meant to be a religion for all, but it is heavily biased in favor of the Arabs because, of course, that’s what Muhammad was.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, how is it that you said a sixth of Muslims in the world are Arabs? Who’s the other, you know, the other 84 percent?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, Islam is spread around the world. So you have Muslims of all different cultural backgrounds. But Islam becomes a religion that brings the Arab culture into other cultures. Because if you have, for instance, a Malaysian Muslim, they have a Malay culture. But because they’re Muslim now, they have to learn Islam. The main goal of every Muslim is to try to emulate the Prophet Muhammad as much as they can, as best they can. So you have to learn these cultural traditions that are Arab cultural traditions that go back to Muhammad or that Muhammad was a part of himself. And then you now as a Malay Muslim are trying to emulate Muhammad as best you can within your own cultural setting. And that’s true with Indonesian and Indian and Bangladeshi and Iranian and American and South American cultures. If you’re a Muslim, you in the end have to import something, at least something, of 7th century Arabian culture, because that was Muhammad’s culture, into your life now in the 21st century.
SPEAKER 13 :
And would you say that there’s… I’m trying to think of freedom of religion here in America, which is super important. How would you say that Islam matches up to freedom of religion in the United States?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, for Islam, really there’s no freedom of religion. I love something that you say as you kick off your show, that if something is a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. The word Islam itself means submission in Arabic. And the understanding of the Muslim world is that Muhammad was commissioned by Allah to spread Islam. And Islam spread originally, and for most of its life in this world, over 1400 years, it spread by the sword or the threat of the sword. And there’s no question about that. You can go back to read the Muslim source materials, and I’ve got a lot of stuff quoted in my book, Fairy Tale Islam, to discover that the Muslim world expanded because of the threat of beheading or otherwise being killed if you refused to bow before the Muslim leadership, the caliphates that developed over time. the first 300 years or so of Islam. So if something’s a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. You shouldn’t have to force people to become Muslims. And indeed, there are many Muslims who haven’t been forced, who listen to the claims of Islam and have, for whatever reason, embraced it. But there are a lot more people who have come into Islam because of the threat of death And then on top of that, Kim, at the other end of the spectrum, you have those who have been in Islam and then decide, well, I want to make a free choice to leave Islam because I want to pursue something else, or I don’t believe in Islam any longer. But in Islam, the penalty for apostasy is death. And this is not a question— that can be debated. There are four legal schools within Sunni Islam, and there are four legal schools within Shiite Islam, and all eight of those schools agree together that if someone leaves Islam, their life should be forfeited. Now, they may not be able to carry that out because they may not have the legal authority to kill somebody, But all the schools, all the legal schools of Islam believe that the proper penalty for apostasy is death. And they quote Muhammad in one of his Hadith traditions saying, if anyone leaves the religion, kill him. Goodness. So there’s no debate about that.
SPEAKER 13 :
Goodness. Okay, well, we’re going to go to break. I’m talking with Mateen Alas regarding his book, Fairytale Islam, and we will be right back.
SPEAKER 09 :
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SPEAKER 16 :
All of Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of the Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That’s kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter at KimMunson.com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We are an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. We are pre-recording all of these shows for Christmas week. Pleased to have on the line with me Mateen Alas. He is a pastor. He’s an author. We’re talking about his most recent book, Fairytale Islam. And first question, Mateen, you mentioned that Islam comes down to force. There are some that thinks that Christianity comes down to force, but the true gospel is Christ doesn’t push himself off on anybody. I know that when man gets involved in religion, things can happen. But Christ never has. He says, you can freely choose to have a relationship with me or not. And I think that’s a beautiful thing about Christ.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, absolutely. Christianity is a religion of love, and love requires freedom in order to be able to grow and So in the Christian faith, Christians are called to go out and share the good news of Christ with the world as an offer, not as a compulsion, but as an offer. When the church has gotten into trouble is when it has become powerful in secular ways, like linked together with political power. and has then sought to use that power to compel people to become Christians. That was post-Constantine, emperor of Rome, who embraced Christianity and made it the Roman religion. Things started to go badly from that point on. And then we have, of course, things like the Spanish Inquisition and what happened in the Crusades, But I think the important thing to note, Kim, is that when the Church, looking back on its history, sees that it has tried to use power to advance the cause of the kingdom of God, it in the end repents of that and says, we were wrong to do that. That’s not the way Christ calls us to relate to the outside world. And so we apologize. We repent for bad behaviors. In Islam, it’s quite the opposite. If you point out to Muslims that they attacked and decimated whole countries of people, they say, yeah, so that’s what we’re called to do. Our goal is to bring the subjection of the world before the throne of Allah, and we use force as necessary. You don’t have to use force if people are willing to bend the knee or without force, but if force is needed, we use force because Allah has commissioned that method in order to bring the world into submission to Him.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and as you alluded in one of the, or said in one of the previous segments, that people many times did bend a knee to Islam because they feared for their lives. And that is the ultimate in force. We are pre-recording this. The world is a very interesting place right now. And it seems like, as this administration is on its way out, that it almost seems like there’s an effort to start World War III. And Syria… is kind of being played on that. What’s your thoughts as your father was Syrian? You probably kind of have a front row seat to what’s happening.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I’m on the sidelines just learning as much as I can from various media reports, mostly not Western media reports because we don’t always get things right. But, Kim, if anyone says they know exactly what’s going to happen, going forward. I think they’re just blowing smoke because there are so many moving parts. There’s so many different organizations, terror organizations, militant groups, rebel parties, as well as the big national players, Turkey, Israel, Iran, Russia to some degree, and the U.S. to some degree. I don’t think anyone, apart from having some kind of divine revelation knows exactly how things are going to end up. It’s good that Bashar al-Assad was kicked out. He was a brutal tyrant. We’re just learning some of the bloodthirsty practices that he had as the dictator of that country against those who were opposed to him. But there’s no guarantee that this new guy who is the head of this group called HTS, Hayat Tachir Hashem, will be any better. He could be worse. I mean, he’s talking a good line right now. He’s been educated enough with Western sensibilities that he knows how to be politically astute. But whether he follows through on those ideas statements of wanting a democratic state with freedom for all in Syria or not, that remains to be seen. It’s certainly the case that some of his soldiers have been very clear. They’ve said two things. We are going to liberate Al-Aqsa Mosque, and then we’re going to liberate the Kaaba in Mecca. What that means is they’re planning to go to war against Israel, and then they’re going to clear Saudi Arabia of the royal family and of the religion or the sect of the Wahhabis, and they’re going to institute their own version of Islam there. So if those soldiers or those followers of this leader are any indicator, they have plans beyond just reconstituting of Syria.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, well, again, I guess stay tuned. We have to pray for our world. We have to pray for those that do not know Christ, that they would come to know Christ. And so as we finish this up, Mateen, this Christmas week, the hope and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most free things that anybody can do. can really have in their lives. So how would you like to finish this up?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I’d like to, I guess, start with the message of Christmas, you know, peace on Earth. The message of Christmas is that we, Earth is a visited planet. Out of all the places in the universe, God came to incarnate himself, to become a human being, to live as one of us in order to be able to to connect with us and then to grow up so that he could live a perfect life of obedience before his father and could then become the perfect sacrifice, the Lamb of God, whose blood was shed for the sins of the world, to bring the possibility, the opportunity for salvation to all who wish to bend the knee before him and to offer their allegiance to Christ.
SPEAKER 13 :
And there is something very freeing about that. And these are the principles that biblical principles that America was founded upon. But it was important to our founders to keep a state religion separate from our government. But that does not mean that our government would not be influenced significantly differently. by these Christian principles of searching for peace, the value of each individual, that we’re all created in the image of our Creator, all those biblical principles. So, Mateen, alas, thank you for the courage to write the books that you write and to talk about these important issues that are happening in our world today and for shedding truth and light on that. I do greatly appreciate it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Tim, it’s always a delight to be on your show. I thank you so much.
SPEAKER 13 :
Absolutely. And our quote for the end of the show, I took part of Matthew 28, 20. And this is Christ says, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. So the promise of Christmas and Easter and the resurrection. So my friends today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically. strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you. God bless America. And stay tuned for our number two.
SPEAKER 06 :
And I don’t want no one to cry, but tell them if I don’t survive, I was born.
SPEAKER 17 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s the Kim Munson Show. Analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 13 :
An early childhood taxing district? What on earth is that?
SPEAKER 15 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 13 :
I don’t think that we should be passing legislation that is so complicated that people kind of throw up their hands and say, I can’t understand that.
SPEAKER 15 :
Today’s current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 13 :
And it’s not fair just because you’re a big business that you get a break on this and the little guy doesn’t.
SPEAKER 15 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
SPEAKER 13 :
Indeed, and welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for listening. You’re each treasured, you’re valued, you have purpose. Today’s drive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body, my friends. We were made for this moment. And I get to work with an amazing group of people. That’s producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa. Thank you so much for having me. through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. You can listen to the show 6 to 8 a.m. Monday through Friday. The first hour is rebroadcast in the 1 to 2 hour in the afternoon, the second hour 10 to 11 at night. And that is on all KLZ 560 platforms, which is KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM, the KLZ website, and the KLZ app. And then we do post the summaries with a written summary on the website the next day and have the podcast embedded in that. And then once that happens, you can listen to everything on Spotify and iTunes. Stan Everett, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you, Kim. Glad to be here.
SPEAKER 13 :
And you and I have talked about, we talk about so many different things about our founding, and you’re so spot on on principles and values. But let’s start with Christmas. Since this is Christmas week, what is, let’s talk about an American Christmas. Where should we start?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, most people are only exposed, of course, to the Christmas that we’re experiencing today. in the 21st century, which is way, way, way different than when our founding colonists came over and Christmas was not really celebrated even throughout the world. In the Roman Empire and the Greek Empire, you can imagine those were pagan religions that were dominant in those two societies, which were very important societies. So Christianity was kind of a very quiet but powerful religion, and the colonists, particularly the pilgrims that came into the New England area, had a completely different approach to Christmas than we would expect today to see.
SPEAKER 13 :
And how was that? What was that approach that they had?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it was illegal. If you wanted to celebrate Christmas in church, you couldn’t. If you wanted to have a Christmas sale as a merchant, you would be closed down and fine. The Puritans were very adamant that the winter solstice, which I think is typically on December 21st, which is the longest day but the darkest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere. And that was typically celebrated in the Roman and the Greek empires as well as Druids and all of the different paganistic religions that were around the world at the time. That was celebrated similarly to how we would celebrate Halloween. So a lot of drunkenness, a lot of riots, not that we have Halloween riots, but those were just expressions of over exuberance of a pagan lifestyle. And it was kind of the pilgrims figured, well, we don’t want to be a part of that. That would be the antithesis of what we could consider to be, you know, the salvation of Jesus Christ coming to the earth. and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So there really wasn’t a Christmas per se as a holiday. Easter was the primary holiday for Christians at that time. And this went back all the way to when Christians were in the Roman Empire and beyond. And until the 1500s, mid-1500s, when Martin Luther began the Reformation movement, into a Protestant Christian perspective as opposed to the Catholic Church. Then Christmas started to inch its way into a celebration, but it was still very resisted in the 1600s, early 1600s, from the pilgrims as Puritans in the United States.
SPEAKER 13 :
So how did things start to change regarding Christmas?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, in Virginia in the 1700s, you started to see a little bit of the loosening. The Congregational or the Puritan Church in the New England states were still very rigid, but in the Mid-Atlantic and Southern states, the religion was less Puritan, and it became more like Presbyterian or Methodist. So the the evolution of these denominations, which were the inspiration for the Declaration of Independence, started to loosen up the perspective. And so you would start to see some decorations and such, but it was not a clearly defined day in December like we have today. It was more a season. In fact, the way people would greet each other during the season was a happy Christmas tide. as opposed to Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Some of that’s really because of the way happy and merry were defined in those days as well. Christmas tide, tide meaning season as opposed to day. But happiness was more a personal sense of joy where if you were saying Merry Christmas, that would mean you were associating that with libations Drunkenness, other external factors like dancing, music, parties, things like that. So you would almost want to reverse what we say today into Happy Christmas and Merry New Year would be a more accurate representation of the New Year season as opposed to the Merry Christmas, which would have a different meaning if we were back in the 1700s and 1800s.
SPEAKER 13 :
So I’m finding that more and more people are saying Merry Christmas than I expected this particular season, Stan Everett. And in fact, some people are pre-empting me when I say Merry Christmas, which I think is wonderful.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, we’re in a revival, a religious revival, as well as a national revival right now. You know that better than any. So I think people are almost in a protesting mood of the wokeness over the last 10 to 15 years, really over the last 50 years in my life. But we’ve seen it accelerate to a point of, you know, department stores not saying Merry Christmas, which the American history has been ever since the mid 1800s. Then Christmas became a day. and Christmas became, a greeting during that season was Merry Christmas. So I’m very pleased to have people say Merry Christmas because it means that they are acknowledging that Christmas is a time of a particular set of values, American values, the Judeo-Christian values that the country is about. So it seems like the majority of the society has rejected Just this happy holidays pablum that means nothing to now we are talking about Christmas as the day of the birth of Jesus Christ. So that’s a profound change in our culture that we have been able to see and experience over just the last few years.
SPEAKER 13 :
We are in such a historic time, and I’m talking with Stan Everett. He’s the founder of the Legacy Project. We’re going to continue this discussion about Christmas. But throughout this month, we are promoting Doyle Glass’s book, Swift Sword. And he, in fact, is really wanting to make sure that we honor our Vietnam veterans. So very pleased to be highlighting Swift Sword. And we’ve pre-recorded all these shows for Christmas week with great guests, great interviews, and, of course, great sponsors. One of those great sponsors is Lavaca Meat Company and Cattleman. Jim May always shares some great poems. Last week on the show, Jim shared a great cowboy poem. So we’re going to get to that in just a minute. But what’s happening over at Lavaca Meat Company, Jim May?
SPEAKER 18 :
Hey, good morning. I first of all want to thank everyone over this holiday season for coming in, just stopping by. I hope you picked up some good things for friends. I know that Imogen and I have taken some out here to our country and some repeat people. But anybody within the shot of my voice today, I just want to say thank you and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. The holiday is here and it’s been a great experience.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and a very happy holiday, Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to all of our listeners.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, for sure. And I always say a couple of things about what’s going on. I think we’re going to look back at this time. I’m just like, you know, who has been running this country for the last three or four years? And it’s starting to get exposed that almost from the beginning of Biden’s term that they You know, they’ve been propping him up and they use the COVID thing for a while to disguise it in the basement. And now we’re looking at, wow, this is crazy. And I just hope that we can, gosh, my poem just went away here. But I just hope that we can continue to get the things across that we’ve been saying. There’s a new sheriff in town. It’s a new year. It’s going to be good. And let’s keep our spirits up and keep it going.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, absolutely. And so this poem that you shared last week is just so special. So we thought it’s very appropriate this week as well. So please set this up for us.
SPEAKER 18 :
Okay, here we go. This is just something I wrote, and I’m glad I’ve had the opportunity to approach some of these occasions and work with it. I appreciate my time on KLZ Radio, and I love the Kim Monson Show. This one’s just called Happy Holidays. It’s finally Friday, and I’ll start it that way. It’s finally Friday, and it’s really hard to believe that in just a few short days it will be Christmas Eve. The Colorado Rockies are white with winter snow. It looks a lot like Christmas from the KLZ studio. I really like the front-range view from the Kim Monson Show, a big-picture window, an American flag, and then there’s Producer Joe. I have been lucky to be a part of it and say what I want to say. Free speech is what it’s all about. It’s the American way. I hope that you have enjoyed the cowboy poetry this year. It’s a chance to share my thoughts and spread a little cheer. Most importantly, the work done here just means a lot to me. Thanks for supporting Lavaca Meat, and many thanks to KLZ. This season sometimes makes you feel like you are a kid again, remembering Christmas past and let them come alive again. There are times you would like to hope the season never ends, sharing joy, love, and quality time with family and friends. And so I want to thank you all for your kind words this year, the phone calls, texts, the little things. They’re so nice to hear. I’m just a Colorado cowboy who would really like to say blessings of peace, joy, and love to you, and have a happy holiday.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, Jim May, thank you so much. And there’s nothing that I can think of more that epitomizes the American spirit than the cowboy and the cattleman. And they’re the true entrepreneurs of our nation. And I so appreciate you. I appreciate the partnership with Lavaca Meat Company. And it truly is a premium product, and it truly is a cut above. And so if you want to treat yourself, Lavaca Meat Company – really can can do that located at the corner of nevada and maine in old littleton and it’s a real treat during the the christmas time to go down to old littleton i’d recommend that everybody do that at some point in time but uh jim may i appreciate you and i wish you and i’m a gene and your whole family a very uh happy new year and of course this is uh just a great holiday poem so thank you so much and thank you kim and and and i share
SPEAKER 18 :
Your thoughts. I wish everybody out there a happy new year. Let’s just get it done. Let’s just have a great 2025 here. We’ve got a lot of positive things going on. Please support Jim and the things you’re doing and our military and all those things. And it’s been great to be part of this. I guess we’ll continue it up for a little while now. And we’ll see you guys next year. The last thing I’m going to say this year on the show.
SPEAKER 13 :
Okay, sounds great, Jim May. And wishing you a very prosperous 2025. We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 12 :
Eyes peeled and moving quickly, Lance Corporal Jack Swan led 164 of his fellow U.S. Marines from Mike Company 3rd Battalion 5th Marines over the face of a bare rocky knoll to rescue an isolated company of fellow Leathernecks besieged by the Communist North Vietnamese Army. Then all hell broke loose. Instead of rescuing their fellow comrades, the Marines now faced complete annihilation. Author Doyle Glass tells their story in Swift Sword, a true Vietnam War story of epic courage and brotherhood in the face of insurmountable odds. Order Swift Sword by Doyle Glass now. They never gave up. We should never forget.
SPEAKER 02 :
You’d like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can’t remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim’s website, kimmunson.com. That’s Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s right!
SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. And during the break, you heard the spot for Doyle Glass’ book, Swift Sword, which is the story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 on 4 September 1967. And as we hear these stories, it is such an honor for me to support the USMC Memorial, which is located right here in Golden, Colorado. And the USMC Memorial Foundation is is doing great work, now is a great time to buy a brick to honor your military service or your loved one’s military service that will be on one of their pathways of service. And if you do that during the month of December, you will – they have a match. A donor is matching that. So check out – The USMC Memorial Foundation dot org for more information. That is USMC Memorial Foundation dot org. I’m talking with Stan Everett. We’ve prerecorded these special shows for Christmas week. He is the founder of the Legacy Project, which we’ll talk about in a little bit. But you said something so important, Stan Everett, and that is that we are in a revival, a religious revival and a national revival. And so talk a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, our country has been through a series of revivals. I think most people may be familiar with what they called the Great Awakening, which was in the middle 1700s. which was very influential to all of the founders because that’s when they were kind of growing into their understanding of their society. So in that time period, you had Protestant pastors, Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, the Wesleys, and they were introducing, let’s rephrase that, they were reintroducing the doctrine of a personal relationship through God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So they’re worshiping Christ and God, the creator. And as we’ve discussed in earlier sessions, Kim, the Declaration of Independence is very reflective of that great awakening because of the influence that it had on the founders. Another great awakening occurred prior to the Civil War. which was instrumental in the abolition of slavery as being the cause for the Civil War. So I think there’s some impacts on our society as this country has evolved, and the Great Awakening or revivals have been prominent. In my lifetime in the 70s, there was the Jesus Movement, which recently there was a movie about that about a year ago, which a lot of evangelical churches began to have younger people coming in and discovering that truth in drugs and sex and freedom really wasn’t going to fulfill their lives, and so they came to a Christian perspective, evangelical Christian perspective. I think we’re kind of going through the same thing now, where we’ve seen a darker side of of society and leadership, and I think people have rejected that. There’s more people going back to church than you can imagine, and church is being redefined, much being redefined. You can have churches in your house. Even megachurches aren’t included in the counting of how many people are going to churches, because they’re considered cults as opposed to churches. So It’s just interesting that we’re living in this time. I’m very blessed to be a part of it, as well as you are. And I think if we recognize it from a historical perspective, we will see a revival of Christianity combined with a revival of Americanism, so to speak, which is based on Christian doctrine from the date of the Declaration of Independence throughout our history. It’s very easy to see how Christianity has influenced our society.
SPEAKER 13 :
So, Stan, let me ask you what your thoughts are on this, because I’ve thought in some ways when we say Judeo-Christian, and say those words, that America’s founded on those principles of Judeo-Christian doctrine. I the sanctity of the individual or individual freedom, property rights, all that’s inherent in the American idea. So the individual, I think that’s the word I want to focus on. So the individual is important. Individual freedom in America. But it will not. But but also Christ came to Earth. to overcome death and have a personal relationship with each individual. And so I’ve always thought those two things were closely connected. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, that’s Protestant Christian doctrine, very much so the Puritans were rejecting the collective notion of the Church of England and came over here to escape that oppression that they were feeling. So religious freedom became part of the foundational principles of the country. In today’s world, I’d call it Judeo-Christian values as well as Christian beliefs, which the values and the beliefs will be different. But by saying Judeo-Christian, then you’re talking about Old Testament as well as New Testament, which a Christian will believe they’re connected where a Jew would not. So those historic kind of connections, I think, and even today, you know, you hear a guy like Elon Musk saying that he believes in the, he calls himself a cultural Christian, not necessarily a follower of Jesus Christ, but he recognizes those Judeo-valued Christians as or Christian values as being so important to the cohesiveness of this society. You’ve had several prominent atheists not denounce their atheism, but to recognize that if this society is going to survive, then we need to look at this society based on Judeo-Christian values, and we need to support that. We may not be churchgoers, or we may not be claiming to be Christians, but the values and the beliefs of those Judeo-Christian concepts are what keep this country together, and they want to support that rather than mock it or reject it.
SPEAKER 13 :
I had not heard that term, and I think I want to talk more about that with Elon Musk regarding cultural Christian. We’ll do that when we come back. I’m talking with Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. We get to have all these discussions because of our sponsors. I know each and every one of them personally. They strive for excellence. So for everything mortgages, reach out to Lauren Levy.
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SPEAKER 16 :
All of Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That’s kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we are pre-recording these shows for Christmas week with really amazing guests, really amazing conversations. And pleased to have on the line with me the founder of the Legacy Project, Stan Everett. We’re talking about Christmas. You mentioned that Elon Musk said that he’s a cultural Christian, which indicates he believes in these foundational values, I guess, of Christianity. But you mentioned two others, and that is Christian nationalism. And this is a term that’s getting a… kind of a, they’re trying to demonize that word, I guess, those words, Christian nationalism. So what would you say to that, Stan Everett?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it’s a label. You know, you got to love people that label other people without ever looking at themselves. But it’s kind of in the, I don’t know, the buzz that’s around in Christian churches that And so they label people as Christian nationalism as a way of degrading or mocking somebody who’s a patriot and also considers his patriotism to be supported by his religion, Christian ideals. So I think the fad of that being constantly thrown out there as a pejorative or a negative seems to be fading. I’m not sure what the new set of labels is going to be in 2025, but I’m sure there will be some. But it’s just something, you know, people tend to want to control the dialogue by controlling the language. So they use terms, then they define the terms, and now I’m supposed to be defensive because they’re defining the terms. Well, I reject that at every step. And if you ask them, well, what is a Christian nationalism? Give me an example. There are no examples. It’s just another one of those labels that’s out there. Kind of sad, but that’s just the state of our society.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and Stan, you mentioned the 70s, and I’m thinking a journey I’ve been on. I went through a period where… I felt like maybe I was even kind of self-censoring my, I know I was self-censoring, because people around, and you mentioned this next term, is Christian progressives, is what I realized later, I didn’t understand it as it was initially happening, but instead of preaching the gospel, it was preaching this social justice, And ultimately, I had a quote of Thomas Solon just recently about, what do you call it when government takes from one person by force and gives to another? They call it social justice. And I inherently was uncomfortable with it, but it was being held up as something altruistic. And so that’s, I think, what I think about Christian progressivism. What’s your opinion on that?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, you’re right, I think. It’s just the other side of the spectrum, you know. But again, it’s a label, but I think it’s a pretty close way of describing or accurate way of describing where the church since the 70s has strayed into these social justice, economic justice. So it’s all about justice now. And, you know, Everybody characterizes Jesus in that time frame of the recent past as being just this peacemaker and everything is great and, you know, kind of stands there with his hands out, you know. Jesus was a radical. And to say that he wasn’t political is totally incorrect. Who do you think crucified Jesus? It was the Romans. I think the Romans were the oppressors in a political form over Christianity. Israel. So it’s just inaccurate to characterize Christianity as being apolitical. But it can also go to an extreme, and you can put up your nationalism at a higher level than your religion. And so that’s where you have these different spectrums. But you can’t lambast one and not recognize that there is another side of that spectrum. And I think that’s what I challenge pastors with. If you’re going to have a negative impact or a negative characteristic of Christian nationalists, then you ought to also have a negative perspective on progressive Christianity, which is not using gospel, it’s using kind of New Age thinking as the foundation of that and then applying that to be gospel. That’s not accurate at all.
SPEAKER 13 :
And regarding the term Christian nationalism, I’m going to bring out the word patriotism. And that is a word that over time they’ve tried to demonize as maybe bravado. And a good friend of mine who is a… a patriotic historian, he said that patriotism is love of country. It’s not pride of country. It’s love of country. And there’s a big difference between the two. And so I think patriotism is love of country. And when you love this idea of that we’re founded on, that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I can love that idea big time. And I want that for our next generations as well, Stan Everett.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and you said it right. Love is an idea, or the love of this country is an idea, because this country is an idea. Every other country is geography. It’s got tribal… You know, it’s got a particular, you talk to somebody about being a Frenchman, it’s different in France because that’s a kingdom, you understand that. In America, we don’t have kings, but we do have a religious belief that puts our reliance on the creator. In fact, the Declaration, as you know, kicked out the king and the crown. and replaced it with the Creator. All men are created equal. My equality comes from the Creator. I’m endowed by my Creator with certain and inalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I’m not endowed with privileges by the King. I’m now endowed by Creator. So if you don’t even know what the Creator is in the context of Protestant Christianity, then you don’t understand this country. But this country is based on ideas. It’s not a It’s not based on a particular race. I mean, we are the melting pot of all people around the world. So you’re accurate in saying this is almost a notion that we are patriots because we love our country. But our country is not anything like any other country. We are a country based on ideas, not on geography or particular ethnic backgrounds.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and you’re making me think about this when we’re endowed by our Creator with these rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. For a long time, I thought when they said that we were made in the image of God, I thought it was the two arms, two legs kind of thing. And it’s been an epiphany for me. to realize that if we’re created in the image of God, then we are creators. And so that means that we procreate. That means that we use our mind to create better and better things. And when we do that here in America, when people were able to to go after their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Well, what could happen? What happened is everyday people were able to thrive and flourish like never before in history. And that’s what makes America great. And so… love of that idea, love of country, is what we’re really talking about here. And I think that it’s important. And you can’t say all this in just a soundbite. People have to really kick the tires on these ideas and come to their own understanding of them, which is why you do the Legacy Project. But this whole creator thing is so foundational to the American idea.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it is. And, you know, The pursuit of happiness was originally the pursuit of property in Jefferson’s first draft. It caused a huge argument between the John Adams of the world and like the southern plantation owner, because John Adams and the New Englanders coming from this kind of the pilgrim Protestant Christian belief system, didn’t want the Declaration of Independence to have words that implied we’re supporting this policy of property. So they argued over the word, and it turned out to be happiness, but it’s economic happiness. So it’s, you know, your creativity, the things you were describing. I can be creative. I can go out and be an entrepreneur. I’m not limited in what I can make other than my own self-limitations. These are rights given to us to pursue that happiness by the creator or God. So those foundational principles or ideas are, again, what the country is built on. And the remnants of that still exist in the 21st century. We’re coming up on 250 years of the celebration of the Declaration of Independence. There’s never been a nation on the planet ever that has lasted that long under the same form of government as our constitutional republic has been able to succeed. And a lot of that’s due to people have the rights. They aren’t having to go to rulers in order to get privileges. And those rights come from their creator. So they have to understand that. And that’s what’s restraining them and directing them to be virtuous and is that there’s a creator that directs you to be virtuous and asks you to be virtuous, as opposed to the government that’s forcing you to be virtuous as they would define it.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yes. And as you say, as they would define it. We’re going to continue this discussion with Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. And the show comes to you because of our great sponsors. And one of those is John Boson with Boson Law.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And for this week of Christmas, we have prerecorded these shows with really interesting guests and interesting subjects. And we’re talking with Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. And it’s really an amazing project that has helped people in northern Colorado get their brains around these founding principles. But we started off with An American Christmas. And there’s a few other things that people may not know about Christmas and our founding that’s pretty interesting. So tell us a little bit. You mentioned that they used to say Happy Christmastide, but then also they changed the calendar back in the 1700s, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, 1752, King George changed. not King George III, who was associated with the revolution, but the earlier fathers, changed the calendar in England from the Julian calendar, which had March 25th as the first day of the year, and they changed it to the Gregorian calendar to honor George, and that put us into a situation where the calendar began each year on January 1st. So, just an interesting sideline of the influences of the founders. All the founders were alive during this change of months. And so you can imagine they’re used to time being in this slot, and all of a sudden it changes to a completely different time frame. But that’s just kind of a sideline.
SPEAKER 13 :
And that happened because the king said that that’s what was going to happen, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, there was a little bit of… arrogance, I suspect, by the king and said, this is what we’re going to do. And it became the norm around the world because the English Empire was the most prominent, dominant empire. And so people followed that. Another interesting thing is, you know, we talked about almost this dark, oppressive celebration of Christmas Eve. which you really couldn’t do, it was illegal to do, and there really wasn’t the time. It started to loosen up in Virginia and such. There was also a large German population in Pennsylvania, particularly, and the Germans introduced lighted Christmas trees. And then you also had the Queen Victoria of England married Prince Albert of Germany. And so that brought a lot of German traditions into the English society, which then fell into the American society. This was in the 1840s. And then another really important thing that is influencing Christmas for us today was the poem by Clement Clarke Moore, The Night Before Christmas. where Santa comes in, you know, and he’s got this jolly old elf Santa Claus. And then in addition to that, you had Charles Dickens in the same time period of the mid-1800s writing A Christmas Carol, which we all know that story of Scrooge. And so these things reflected the commercial type of gift-giving that Santa would bring. But then on Scrooge, it was a transformation of his whole perspective on life. of being generous instead of being a miser, being loving instead of being an angry old guy. And so I think those two things came together in America and has really transformed the way Americans then thought of the Christmas season. And then we also had Christmas Day identified on the calendar day of December the 25th during that time period. So those things really had an impact, and we see the impact today. And we see how the ebb and the flow of that is real important. And now we have a lot of, I mean, you have stores that are exclusive Christmas. You have a whole genre of music that’s Christmas. This is how Americans do things. We take things that are positive and positive. we organize them to the extreme. And then we go out and find books and movies, decorations, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, because now the Christmas season becomes an iconic season for people in America, where at one time it was illegal and very dark and you didn’t even want to talk about it. Now it’s on everybody’s lips and it’s wherever you go, you see the lighted houses and the stores, the music’s prolific. You can’t even get it off your radio these days, it seems. But It’s just quite an interesting transformation of how people view this Christian aspect of this society and how influential that has been on the entire world. The way Christmas is thought of in the United States is now exported into Asia and to Africa and all these other places that is impacting people, whether subtly or very overtly, they’re being impacted by Christianity.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and during this season, and one of the things that you had in the notes that you sent over is that it seems that during this season, Americans, even more than the other days of the year, they appreciate these virtuous characteristics. And I have a… Another sponsor who they organized this huge toy drive for kids that might not have a toy for Christmas. And I thought, what a beautiful thing. And so they organized that. People can buy a toy. This is First American State Bank. And Jay Davidson and his daughter, who’s with the bank, Michelle Gruber, give them shout-outs. Mm-hmm. And Michelle organized all this. And so toys for all these children. And then they arrange a big wrapping party for people to come in and wrap the gifts. And I made a concerted effort to be part of that this year. And I was just looking around thinking about all these different toy drives and all these different things people are stepping forward. Even though with government-induced inflation and uncertainty and all these different things, Americans step forward because, as a society, we care about our fellow man, and that is inherently something that is Christian.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and again, the ideals of social justice, as opposed to the political characterization of social justice, are in the hearts of Americans. We are idealistic. We’re generous people. love one another as a societal mantra is a reality. It may not be as prominent as it was, but it’s coming back in my mind. You’re getting more and more people doing what you’re describing, Christmas drives or You know, Thanksgiving dinners or all of these things that are associated with people helping through loving other people, as opposed to the division that we’ve seen over the last 10 years on the political side, which is a completely different societal trajectory. I think it’s being rejected. And now we’re going back to a love one another society and help one another. And we’re doing it with the right motivation. a virtuous motivation as opposed to a hateful motivation.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and the other thing is that if people, if government takes money from people under the guise of helping others, social justice, so that’s the political realm of that. And of course, I call them PBIs, the politicians, bureaucrats, interest parties take their cut as that goes by. That is not these ideas of loving each other The thing about Christ is Christ came to have a personal relationship with each and every one of us, but he doesn’t force himself upon us. And that’s that word I talk about all the time, is force. It is a free choice to have that relationship with Christ. And that’s what’s so remarkable about the Christian faith, Stan Everett.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, you’re absolutely right. It’s remarkable, but it’s so contrarian to human nature. It’s how human nature has to be restrained through their faith in this higher power, as opposed to government restraining them through force, which is kind of what you’re describing when you use your taglines. But yeah, Christianity and the whole idea behind Jesus Christ and He being the Son of God, and so you have this personal connection through Him to the Almighty. I mean… There’s no other religion in the world where there isn’t something in between God and the people. There’s a brokerage, whether that’s a church or whether that’s a religion, Islam or Jew or whatever. This gives me the individual relationship with the Almighty God. And God has a pretty clear path as to what is right and what is wrong, what is just and what is unjust in the Bible. And that starts with, you know, the serpent in the garden all the way through Revelations in the New Testament. So it’s, as a foundation for a nation, it’s never been tried. And even those that have tried it have never been as successful as the United States because of our cultural characteristics rely on God as our source as opposed to government as our source.
SPEAKER 13 :
So this Christmas, completing this Christmas week, I think it’s important to just reflect on the fact that Christ came in very humble circumstances as a baby. Ultimately, the journey was then to the cross to overcome death so that each and every one of us can have a personal relationship with God. It’s a remarkable story, and it’s an amazing thing to celebrate. Stan Everett, founder of The Legacy Project, I appreciate all that you do and appreciate your support of the show as well.
SPEAKER 08 :
My pleasure. You’re doing more than I’m doing, and I love it. I appreciate being on and talking to you about these things. It’s always fun.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, you’re doing amazing work. Again, that is Stan Everett, the founder of The Legacy Project. And our quote for the end of the show is from Matthew 2820, where Christ said, And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. So, my friends, today be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 06 :
And I don’t want no one to cry But tell them if I don’t survive I was born
SPEAKER 17 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
