Host Kim Munson brings to light the human aspect of military captivity. From the struggles of survival to the clever ways of undermining enemy propaganda, Bob Chica shares insights gained from his time as a prisoner of war. The episode emphasizes the importance of preserving these stories as they serve as powerful reminders of the sacrifices made for freedom. As Bob shares his return home, we gain an understanding of the transition from captive experiences to reintegration into normal life, a process filled with challenges and bittersweet reunions.
SPEAKER 07 :
world war ii korea vietnam the gulf war afghanistan and her other wars and conflicts america’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty we must never forget them welcome to america’s veteran stories with kim munson these stories will touch your heart inspire you and give you courage We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Munson.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And the show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France, for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings in World War II. And returned stateside realizing we need to know these stories. We need to understand. record them and broadcast them and archive them, so hence America’s Veterans Stories. And we’re pleased to be recording part two with Marine veteran Bob Chica. He was a crew member on the USS Pueblo which was taken captive in 1968 during the Vietnam War by the North Koreans. And the crew was held for 11 months. There were 83 crew members on the USS Pueblo. One crew member was killed, but the rest were taken captive. Bob was one of those. And so we were talking about… his captivity, ended with his captivity in part one of the show. But the USS Pueblo was an experiment that didn’t work out so well, right, Bob Chica? And welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you. That’s a good way to say it. Yes, it didn’t work out too well. It’s been changed. A lot of it’s taken over by planes and satellites and smaller contingents on bigger ships.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and the USS Pueblo was not a very big ship, and you were out there in the ocean by yourself. The North Koreans said that you’d gotten into their territorial waters, which the U.S. says, no, that was not the case, but that was their excuse for taking the USS Pueblo captive, correct?
SPEAKER 08 :
Correct. Just from the side point here, if you’re going to intrude into the waters of a hostile nation, you want to intrude with a ship that had the speed to get the hell out of there if you got caught or enough power on the ship to shoot your way out if they came after you. And in no way did the Pueblo fit that particular point of view. So it would have been really kind of suicidal for us to have intruded into North Korean waters. So we generally operated from about 15 to 25 miles out to sea.
SPEAKER 03 :
And again, what were you looking for? It was guised as a ship doing environmental research, which it was. There was some of that occurring, but it was also an intelligence gathering ship as well, yes? Yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, that is true. It was the experiment following the Russians have extensive trawler fleet disguised as fishing vessels that are actually intelligence collection vessels. And it was decided that if they find it so neat to do, we should give it a try, and we were the experiment. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Three older vessels were taken out of mothballs, the Pueblo to Palm Beach and the Banner, and refit as intelligence collection ships.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And you were on the USS Pueblo. You and another Marine, correct? Correct. And otherwise, it was the Navy crew, right? Did I get that right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes. Yes, 83 men on board the ship, two civilians, two Marines, and the rest were Navy. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And so on the intelligence gathering, you were just, what, watching and listening, trying to figure out what you could ultimately do?
SPEAKER 08 :
We were listening and just recording anything that we could hear or pick up for analysis later. And, you know, you can pick up a lot just off the waves, radio waves and things. Yeah. There were a few specifics that we were looking for, but you can learn a lot about Chinese and Russian equipment by watching what the North Koreans are doing. So that was basically what we were after.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And you knew how to speak Korean as well, right? Because you, in your training, you learned a language and it happened to be Korean, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
That is true. That is true. I wasn’t very good at that point. I spoke it much better when I got out than when I went in as a prisoner.
SPEAKER 03 :
I bet. One other thing before we get more into your captivity is when you realized North Koreans were going to come on board and we had talked about you, you all were destroying intelligence. You were burning papers and you’d been burning them down. inside the ship, which was burning up the oxygen, so then you’d moved that Endeavour where there was more air. Were you able to destroy everything before the North Koreans took you captive?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, we weren’t. That was a disappointing thing because they were able to capture a lot of material and equipment. There were so many things involved with this. I don’t know if you heard of John Walker, but he was a Navy man that started spying for the Russians about the time we were captured. And he had just given the Russians the single day use code pads to decipher our communications. And the Russians would like a code machine, which we happened to have one on board. So that was part of their interest, especially once we had been captured. They came and took what was left of the machine back. The rotors on the machine had been destroyed. I saw that myself. And to this day, I wish I had thrown the remains of the rotors overboard. But, you know, retrospect’s always 100%.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there was a lot going on at that time. Yeah, it was a little busy. Yeah, just a few things happening. So the ship is overtaken. You guys are all taken captive, and you were injured during the attack. One of your colleagues ended up dying from his injuries. So you’re taken captive, and they take you where for the prison camp?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, for the first portion, we were taken to just a building around Wonsan. They were kind of waiting for a bus and then ultimately a train to take us over to Pyongyang, the capital of North Korea. If you look at Korea… Okay. Well… It may be based kind of in the shape of California. And we were captured at Wonsan, which would be the east side of the peninsula, and Pyongyang, their capital, is on the west side. So they wanted to get us over to Pyongyang, and that’s what they did. It was an all-night train trip once they got the buses and trains there. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And, Bob Chica, you’re injured pretty significantly, yes?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
I find it just amazing that you survived those injuries because I’ve got to think that infection would have been a big concern on that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it was. The area of the wound, it was real close to my artery. And there was a big chunk of metal in there. And during all the movement around and everything, if it had nicked that artery, I probably wouldn’t be here. But, you know, he’d just hobble around as best he can.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, so you get over to Pyongyang. How do you say that again?
SPEAKER 08 :
Pyongyang.
SPEAKER 03 :
Pyongyang. And you’re there. And we left off at the last interview where they hauled up an old Russian x-ray machine to take a look at your leg and obviously must have seen this big piece of metal there and decide that they’re going to take it out. So let’s begin there.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. Well, after they found where the shrapnel was, they pulled several tables out of our cells and had me bring my bed sheet down to one of the other cells where they had set up a makeshift operating room. And then, you know, I’m laying there on the table and they’re getting ready to do this stuff. And there’s like six of their… guards holding my legs. And I’m thinking this can’t be going on. I didn’t know what to do with my hands. And they did film all of this and then put it out as their humanitarian treatment of the wounded by splicing in movies and things of a real operating room. But it wasn’t like that at the time. I didn’t know what to do with my hands because I thought I might jerk myself around or something and cause more problems. Eventually, one of the guards indicated for me to hold on to my pillow, so that’s what I did. Then they cut it out and sewed me up. I can’t believe how big the chunk was. It comes out with all your Levi’s and all kinds of crap on it. And you’re right, infection was a problem. They would dump water in it to sort of clean out the wound and then sewed me up with two stitches using a cord like you wrap on a rump lobst or something before you cook it. Goodness. And gave me my bloody sheets and sent me back to the cell. And you’re right about the infections. It took me six or eight months to really heal and it… the shrapnel had gone in there and flipped around everything, so it cut up a big hole on the inside, and it would always get infected and fill up and drain, and it was an icky time.
SPEAKER 03 :
It was an icky time. Was there any kindness from any of the North Korean guards to you guys?
SPEAKER 08 :
Not very much, although the doctor that was taking care of us, I think, actually cared and was just interested in getting us healed. But if some other lackey took care of us and the infections recurred, a little more virulently than other times, and then, you know, he’d have to clean everything out and re-vantage. But at least he seemed to care. Other than that, a good guard would be one that just wouldn’t beat out on you. And they constantly were working this over.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Okay, Bob, we’re going to continue the discussion. I’m talking with Bob Chica. He is a Marine veteran, and he was a prisoner of war held by the North Koreans in 1968. And it is so important that we understand these stories. I was not aware of the USS Pueblo. How I found out was that Bob was doing an on-values presentation at the Center for American Values. which is a place that I dearly love. It’s located in Pueblo, Colorado, on the beautiful Riverwalk, and co-founded by Drew Dix, who is a Medal of Honor recipient for actions he took during the Vietnam War, and Brad Padula, who is a documentary maker. And they realize we need to honor these stories, honor these men, educate, inform people about this. They have put together great educational programs for kids as well. They focus on these values of honor, integrity, and patriotism. And check out more information. You can find it all at AmericanValuesCenter.org. That’s AmericanValuesCenter.org. We’ll be right back with Bob Chica.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 1 :
Ah, ah, ah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to America’s Veterans Stories. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. And the sponsor of the show is Hooters Restaurants. They’ve been great sponsors of the show for many years. They have five locations, Loveland, Aurora, Lone Tree, Westminster, and Colorado Springs. And a great place to get together with friends to watch all the events, sporting events. And they do have great specials Monday through Friday for lunch and for happy hour. how I got to know them, a very important story about freedom and free markets and capitalism. And we’re talking with Bob Chica. He is a Marine veteran, and he was held captive for 11 months by the North Koreans during the Vietnam War. Bob, you were on the USS Pueblo doing some intelligence gathering, and you thought you were only going to be on the boat for, what, about 30 days? But surprise, huh?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, right. I was attached as a 30-day TAD trip, temporary assignment of duty TAD.
SPEAKER 03 :
And you’re right, it got a little extended. A little extended to prisoner of war. And you said that you were very optimistic. You felt that the United States would come to get you guys. But after six months, you’re thinking, hmm, maybe not. What was going on? Were you guys able to talk with each other, or what was happening?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, we were able to talk some. It really depended. They tried to keep the communications down, but we had a crew full of communicators, so we were able to keep things going. You could pass notes or They tried to keep us separate, but it really didn’t work. There were too many of us, and we knew how to get around some of it. Their emphasis quickly moved from actual intelligence collection to one of propaganda, and that actually made it a little easier for communications, just because of the size of the crew. And it just depended on what was going on. They did have a huge amount of material. But almost from the beginning, it became fairly apparent that they didn’t have the knowledge to really interpret and use what they had. So much of the material and things almost immediately went to Russia. And their emphasis slowly twisted toward propaganda rather than getting military intelligence out of us. And our general way of looking at things was we’d try to find out what they did have. And then if needed, we could own up to that to try to keep what they didn’t know away from them. And I think we were pretty successful in that effort.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and regarding propaganda, that would mean that they were trying to get you guys to admit or say things that weren’t true, right? Correct, correct. And in order to do that, they treated you pretty badly?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, yeah, they have been beat with boards and rifle butts and poked with bayonets and beat with fists and boots and, you know, just whatever they had handy. But they would have you write something, and, you know, I wouldn’t put down what they really wanted, so eventually they would write something and hand it to me and say, put this here, here, and here. So we would try to do what we could to ruin the written things, you know, maybe talk to dead relatives or make up names. It’s going to be cute getting this out over the air, but Commander Booker came up with a person that he put in the letters, and he was talking to his relatives a lot of crock of shit. And so, you know, when translated into Korean, it made sense. But when it got back to the United States, it made no sense. And let them know that this was all being coerced. And they would come in with their photographers and would put books and flowers and things in the cell and in the Photographers would come in and take pictures and things like that. And then they put that out to the world. So we did what we could to ruin that stuff. And again, it’s going to be cute getting this out on the air, but the most successful thing we did was give them the finger.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
And you could, they’re taking your picture, so you can adjust your glasses with your middle finger or point to something in the books while they’re taking pictures. And we got to use that a lot. Eventually, they did notice it in the pictures, and the first guy they asked about what it was told them it was a Hawaiian good luck sign. So real fast, we passed around the crew that the giving the finger was a Hawaiian good luck sign. And we got a lot more blatant with it. We got away with it for a long time. They just didn’t understand what it actually meant. And there was one time where we saw they showed us a movie of their heroic soccer team arriving in London for some soccer matches. and the narrator was telling the Korean people to look at all the wonderful Englishmen welcoming them to England for the soccer match. Well, the wonderful English were not welcoming these people to England at all. They were jeering them and everything, and there was one shot of an elderly man Englishman with his bowler hat and leaning on his cane giving them the finger giving them the Hawaiian good luck sign huh Hawaiian good luck sign so we we got from that that they had no idea what it really meant and we got away with it for a long time now you said for a long time when they figured it out that probably was not they you know they never figured it out actually it was uh Time magazine that told them what it was. They did an exercise on what we’d been doing to screw up their propaganda. And I guess we don’t mind them doing it, but we would have rather not been still in captivity when they did it. You think? You think, yeah. It got the North Koreans really upset. Because they’d been, like I said, aiming more for propaganda than anything else with us. And here they’d been embarrassed worldwide. And they really came down on us after that. Had we been there too much longer, they’d have probably killed off a few of the leaders. But they… So many things going on. There’s negotiations going on down at Pamlin John. There’d been an election in the United States and Nixon had been elected president. And no matter what you think of Nixon, he had a very good anti-communist reputation. And it appears that the North Koreans didn’t want to deal with Nixon. They would have to sort of start negotiations from the beginning, which would mean we would be there longer. And they had been embarrassed worldwide by what we’d been doing. So they made a real sudden decision to release us on Christmas Eve. On Christmas Eve. Yep. We’d been going through, I mean, they really came down on us after the news week thing. The Time magazine thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
So let’s just think a little bit about that. How irresponsible of Time magazine to… to do that. That is just… It’s really infuriating to think about that, that they did that. And embarrass the North Koreans while you’re still in captivity. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out. People don’t like to be embarrassed, but particularly tyrants don’t like to be embarrassed.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, you got that right on. And we called it Hell Week. It lasted probably two weeks. I mean, they came… down on us like a ton of bricks and then like I said they made a very sudden decision to release us on Christmas Eve and they they’ve been beaten out on us and they took the people that had all the visible bruises and black eyes and things and started doctoring them trying to get everything straightened out so they could be released and then After all that was done, they pulled us out of our cells one at a time, kind of strip searched us and gave us a new set of clothes and out the other door onto a bus. Then down to Pam and John eventually to be repatriated. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, Bob Chica, what about your family back at home? What was happening with them? They eventually must have figured out that you were still alive once they started the whole propaganda thing. But what about everybody back home?
SPEAKER 08 :
It was… Tough for them, but I must say the military and the Marine Corps came through quite well for the families. My wife was nine months pregnant when I was captured, and my son was born February 28th. He’s a leap year baby. And there was no contact or anything, but eventually a letter came through and said, listed among the dogs we had was the name we had picked, so I knew I had a son. That little baby is now 57 years old.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that’s going to make me cry. I’m just thinking about your wife, that here she is. You’re in captivity. She’s pregnant. She has a baby. We don’t always think about everybody back home as well. And, oh, my gosh, what she had to be going through.
SPEAKER 08 :
The, like I mentioned, the operation was all filmed and then released. And my family had a little bit of political clout. One of the reporter ladies that we knew worked with the Marine Corps and they had my family down to watch the movie. So they knew I was alive and getting some kind of treatment. which was interesting. And then they took good care of the family. My wife went and lived with my parents and my other brothers. Like I mentioned at the very beginning, I’m the oldest of seven, so there was a large family there to kind of take care of things and help out.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, a remarkable story, a remarkable commitment that our military men and women have done for our freedom, for our liberty. And it is so important that we understand these stories. We’re going to continue the conversation with Bob Chica. He is a Marine. And I want to mention another nonprofit I dearly love is the USMC Memorial Foundation Foundation. They’re raising money for the official Marine Memorial, which is located right here in Golden, Colorado at 6th and Colfax. It was dedicated in 1977, and they’re working for that remodel on the Marine Memorial. And you can help them by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. It is tax deductible and would highly recommend that you make sure that you have the USMC Memorial Foundation in your giving for 2025.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. We are recording part two of our interview with Bob Chica. He is a Marine who was on the USS Pueblo, which was taken captive in the Vietnam War in 1968, held for 11 months. And I did want to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation always does special events for our special military holidays. And for Memorial Day this year, Bob Chica will be the keynote speaker at the Marine Memorial. So I’m excited about that, Bob.
SPEAKER 08 :
Uh-oh, I guess I better show up and say something good.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think that you should. I think that you should. So we’ve talked about your experience being a prisoner of war. And when you say that they came down on us hard or things like that, I know that there is a lot more behind those words now.
SPEAKER 08 :
than what than what we um are really giving details and that is just fine we don’t need details on that but that’s okay they uh they kicked me a lot that was their favorite sport and uh uh i’ve had 11 operations putting me back together since i got out uh they uh They’re always trying to prove on an individual basis. They really didn’t like Marines. And so they were trying on an individual guard to guard basis to see who was better, them or me. And like I said, they kicked me thousands of times trying to catch me in the nuts. So I moved really well and learned to catch the kicks on my legs and my stomach. And that’s where I’ve had a couple of the operations, putting things back together. And, of course, you couldn’t fight back, right? No, no, no, no. The Uyghur, I got it. They kept the—they rotated through a lot of guards while we were there. I think we didn’t fit their particular propaganda view of what Americans were like. And so they didn’t want us influencing their people, so they’d rotate the guards. And the biggest guards and the meanest ones, they would keep around. And we named them different things, the Cheeks and the Bear. I mean, these were huge Koreans, which was unusual. They were probably part Russian, but of course the North Koreans wouldn’t admit to anything like that. But they were… So big and we were so weak that, God, sometimes one fist would knock me completely out. And we never had much to eat. You know, we hadn’t talked about food.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, let’s talk about food a bit.
SPEAKER 08 :
The mainstay they gave us was turnips. We had fried turnips for breakfast, turnip soup for lunch, and fried turnips for dinner. Now, some people like turnips.
SPEAKER 03 :
But you probably don’t anymore, huh?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, I don’t anymore. If you can picture turnips sort of cut up like large French fries and then fried in about 30-weight motor oil and just sort of sitting in this aluminum dog food type tin that they served us in. And, you know, the turnips are just lying there in coagulated grease. And that’s what you’re eating. We had a cup of water to split four ways. And sometimes we’d have a piece of bread or a little bit of rice. But if you had rice with the fried turnips at breakfast, you literally didn’t have enough saliva to get the stuff down. And you’re starving to death anyway. So you want to save it. And if you’d save the rice to lunch, there was more liquid in the turnip soup so we could get it down. But it turned out to be a crime against the Korean people to save your rice to lunch. So we would have to hide it somewhere and save it to lunch. Again, it’s kind of gross, but the best place for me to put it was in my armpit. You’d roll it up into a ball and stick it in your armpit and bring it back at lunch. So you could eat it with the turnip soup. Goodness. Periodically, we got a piece of meat or some fish. They believe that if you beat the thing to death, it tastes better. So we could hear them help beyond the compound, beating this pig to death. And then in the turnip soup, there might be some gross pieces of, pig or fat or i mean they would throw disgusting things in like the eyeballs and assholes and things like that i lost about 50 pounds that was going to be my next question how much did you weigh when you were finally liberated about 130 i was 180 when i went in and food was was always a big Big problem. There was never enough. You were always hungry. And even after you’d eat, you would still be hungry. Eventually, we helped ourselves a bit, and Commander Bucher was able to get them to allow us to serve ourselves. So instead of the cold stuff sitting in coagulated grease, The grease was still runny and warm when we got it, once we had changed compounds and they let us sort of feed ourselves. And you’re always trying to, it just brings up so many little things, always trying to keep morale up. So, you know, I can draw, so I’d draw a picture of a hamburger or something and put it in the guy’s plate that was next to me or something, and everyone got a laugh out of it. the silly things you do.
SPEAKER 03 :
We take so much for granted. Food’s terrible. And you’re in North Korea, so I imagine, and we talked a little bit about it, it was also very cold. So you had sheets. Did you have any blankets? You said eventually they gave you some quilted clothes. What was the temperature? What was that like?
SPEAKER 08 :
It was almost always cold. In the winter, the heavy quilted outfits were what we had and then when it got hot in the summer they gave us a different unquilted set of clothes and then when we finally did get out they released us in a new set of those thinner clothes they I don’t know, I think they probably thought they were going to get what they wanted around October and they actually increased our food a little bit and better food. It lasted about 10 days and then I guess they didn’t get what they wanted so everything reverted back to what it was before. and then into Hell Week and all that that went on during that time.
SPEAKER 03 :
Bob, how is it that human beings are capable of treating each other with great compassion and great care, but yet human beings are capable of treating others with this cruelty? How do you, I know this is a tough question, how does that happen? I guess it’s just evil, yes?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it’s going to go back to government and who runs the country. And if the people running the country are evil, then they incorporate those ways into everything that goes on. People might criticize the United States. They were founded on a love of money, but at least it’s a love of something. The motivation factor in North Korea is reverence to Kim Il-sung back then and now Kim Jong-il. And if you don’t agree with them, they simply kill you. Kids aren’t playing necessarily with toys. Kids will be given rifles and taught how to sing songs about how they’re going to grow up and kill Americans. And it’s so hard for us to believe that people actually live that way. But most Americans, especially younger ones, think the rest of the world is just like it is here. Only all the signs are written in some language that they don’t understand. But it’s not that way. Other countries are just incredibly cruel. And it’s beyond understanding sometimes. Like the college girls that are protesting for Palestine, they would be killed in Palestine. They would be, they just don’t understand. They don’t know what they’re talking about. Whenever Kim Il-sung’s name at the time, if I can remember all this, you never just said Kim Il-sung, you had to say his name with all kinds of eulogies. and points of praise. If I can remember it, I’ll give it a shot here. Okay. Peerless patriot, national hero, ever victorious, iron-willed, genius commander, and one of the outstanding leaders of the international communist and working class movements, Marshal Kim Il-sung said, and that’s how you would have to say his name, I mean, just stupid things, like Kim Jong-il wanted all the men to cut their hair the same way he did. I mean, just stupid stuff. And you either comply or they kill you. And most Americans find that unbelievable. But it’s the truth. And they just don’t know what they’re talking about. Goodness.
SPEAKER 03 :
Go ahead.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, it’s okay. I was finished with my little preaching there.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it’s so important that we understand your perspective on this, Bob Chickett, because you have been through it. And to survive—that’s going to be my next question, is— What mentally was going on for you, your colleagues, to survive these beatings? How did you get through it? Were you saying Lord’s Prayer or something to yourself? How did you get through that?
SPEAKER 08 :
The good Lord got me through it, that’s for sure. Every time I was going out for something, I’d just say, God, help me get through this thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
And he did. And he did, yeah. And he did, okay. Well, we’re going to continue the discussion about what happened when you guys got home. And I’m talking with Bob Chica. He was a crew member on the USS Pueblo, and they were held captive for 11 months by the North Koreans during the Vietnam War. We want to find out what happened coming home.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s 303-880-8881. Call now.
SPEAKER 04 :
From the mountains to the prairies,
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And I’m talking with Bob Chica. He is a Marine veteran. He was on the crew of the USS Pueblo, which was taken captive by the North Koreans. During the Vietnam War in 1968, they were held for 11 months. We’ve talked a bit about captivity. But you are released on Christmas Eve 1968 or 69? Correct, 68. Okay, 1968, Christmas Eve. What happens then?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, like I mentioned earlier, we were right in the middle of Hell Week, and they just stopped. and started doctoring up the people that had visible injuries. And then the day of our release, they kind of pulled us out of our cells one at a time, did a strip search, and gave us a new set of clothes. And it was the middle of winter again, but I think they thought we were going to be released earlier before it got cold. So they gave us a new set of summer clothes and then a real heavy quilted jacket to go over it. And brought us out the other side of the room and put us on a bus and drove us down to Pamlin John area. And we sat around there while they… negotiated and jacked around for several hours. And then eventually, one at a time had us cross the bridge of no return there into South Korea. And we were then officially released. We were told not to slow down, not to speed up, not to do anything, or they would stop it. And so we just kind of walked across the bridge into freedom. About halfway across, you get the idea that, my God, this is actually occurring, and we’re going to get out of here. The times before when there was sort of a practice for release, you would get your hopes up, or at least the rumor mongers in the crew would. And then, of course, they’d be dashed when we got back into the prison camp. And once we… got into South Korea, it was really, really nice. First thing they did, we had to go to the bathroom, so they took us to the bathroom and gave us some noodle soup and donuts and a sandwich and little things like that, the best food we’d had in a year, and then took us to a hospital in South Korea where they did some preliminary checks and tested us and uh took all the clothes that the north koreans would give us so they can search them for bugs and things like that and eventually they cleaned them all up and gave them back to us once we were back in the states and then put us on planes and brought us back to the united states with a bounce at midway i believe and we landed at miramar which is a Then it was a naval base here in San Diego and brought us down to Balboa Naval Hospital in the middle of San Diego. And Ronald Reagan met us at Miramar. And we had no idea what to expect. And it was kind of expected we might end up in jail back here for what we’d done. and the results of the propaganda and stuff we put out. But the American people had banded together. It really surprised me, surprised all of us, but they collected enough money to fly all of our families out here to San Diego. So they were all there with Ronald Reagan when we got off the airplane. then put us on buses and brought us down to the Naval Hospital. And it’s just so amazing that the freeways were vacant. Everyone pulled off to the side of the road.
SPEAKER 03 :
As you went by?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, yeah. They just pulled off the side of the road, out there waving. They had their signs, welcome home USS Pueblo and all that kind of stuff. It was a really emotional time.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m getting emotional hearing about it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Me too, talking about it.
SPEAKER 03 :
And Ronald Reagan was governor of California at that time, yes? Correct, yes. Okay. So you guys have been a political hot button then. So what happened after that?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, we spent… several weeks going through debriefing here where our own intelligence people talked to us about everything we’d been through and what we might have learned and stuff like that and I think it was supposed to last about a week and it ended up lasting three weeks because we had a lot of stuff to talk about yes and then the military especially the Navy, did not like us being treated like heroes. They were slowly getting their hands back on us, and eventually they actually gave away the rest of the money that had been collected to keep our families here, sent the families home, and put us out on Coronado, which is an island in the bay here in San Diego, where we were separated from everything. It really ticked off a lot of people that they did it, but they were getting their hands back on us, and they wanted a particular narrative.
SPEAKER 03 :
What was that narrative, Bob?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, actually, I think they wanted to, well, they’re always looking for someone to blame for something, and so they were looking at Commander Booker to blame him for the whole incident. It was really, really embarrassing. It showed… all kinds of uh flaws and and everything from the planning platform to uh even language school like i went back i spoke at the language school a few years ago and they had changed so much they see to it now if you learn the language by god you’re going to work in that language And they have various levels of fluency and advanced training and more schooling, but they’re not going to let things go by the wayside like it occurred with us. And I want to say there’s better planning and it wouldn’t happen again, but you never can tell where something’s going to fall through. So they had this court of inquiry. And I actually had me talk at the Court of Inquiry. One day they came in and told me I was speaking in a secret session the next morning. And here I am, a Staff Sergeant in the Marine Corps, and I’m put out there in front of all these admirals and political people, and they wanted to know what I’d done to screw up the Koreans. My God, if they’d have given me a day or two notice about what they would like to know, I could have come up with something. But I was more tongue-tied because it’s a terrifying thing to get in front of all these people that so outrank me. And now it doesn’t matter. I can talk about it. But back then it was a tough thing. Eventually it ended. Actually, there was a… a radio station in town that was really annoyed that they had sent all the families home and gave away the money. So they collected some more money with the stipulation that it went specifically to the crew. So I got to handle that when it came in and eventually decided to do a ring for the crew. And if they didn’t want the ring, the particular crew member got their $76 directly. So that kind of set up my career for a long time, because after that I got into the business of working with high school and colleges, supplying the school rings and diplomas and caps and gowns and all that stuff. Oh, nice. I originally thought, of course, that I’d have a career in intelligence work, but after the court of inquiry, they sent me back to Fort Meade, Maryland, which was the headquarters, and they actually wouldn’t let me in. I told you we were political, and they were embarrassed and upset, and some people that I had known before saying derogatory comments, and so I figured my career in intelligence was over. And then eventually someone attacked my car with a hammer, and so I said I’ve had enough of this and decided I was moving west. I called a friend in Oceanside, California, and said, find me a house. I’m moving west.
SPEAKER 03 :
And you’ve been there all these years then? Yep. Okay. We’ve got just a few minutes left. Do you guys get together? I know sometimes different groups will get together.
SPEAKER 08 :
You’re right, we do. Initially, we didn’t think, I mean, when you’re held this close, tight and close with these people in your head, you think, my God, I don’t ever want to be with this person again. It’s not the truth. Several years after Commander Booker, who also lived here in San Diego, there were six or eight of the crew living in San Diego at the time. He had a Christmas party and invited everyone. And my God, it was one emotional moment. Christmas party, and we decided we were going to have reunions, and I’m in charge of the reunions. I’ve done 18 of them. We have one coming this September in Branson, Missouri. They’ve invited us there for their veterans thing in September. So we’re going to do, we don’t do them as large and complex as we had in the past where we had lots of activities and t-shirts and all kinds of memorabilia and things like that. Right now we’ll pick a date and those that want to come can come. Some people really look forward to it, but we have people that have never been to a reunion.
SPEAKER 03 :
Everybody has their different views on experiences. Bob Chica, we’re basically out of time, but thank you. I’m so honored that you would share your story with us. Thank you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and it is our honor, and as we hear these stories, we realize that indeed we do stand on the shoulders of giants, my friends. So God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m., here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 02 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
