In this touching episode, we explore the journey of Andrew Biggio, a dedicated marine and author who embarked on a mission to preserve the stories of WWII veterans before they fade away. Through heartfelt interviews with veterans and the symbolic passing of the M1 Garand rifle, Biggio brings to life the raw emotions and enduring wisdom of those who fought for our freedom. Discover how these extraordinary narratives continue to inspire and inform future generations.
SPEAKER 09 :
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and our other wars and conflicts. America’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America’s veteran stories with Kim Munson. These stories will touch your heart, inspire you and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Munson.
SPEAKER 07 :
And welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And the show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France, for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings in World War II. and returned stateside realizing that each of these stories are unique, they’re important, they should be recorded and heard and broadcast and archived, so hence America’s Veterans Stories. I am excited to have on the line with me Andrew Biggio. He has written a book, The Rifle, combat stories from America’s last World War II veterans, told through an M1 Garand. Andrew, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thanks for having me, Kim.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I am not quite sure who recommended your book and to connect with you. I think it was a World War II veteran, but I’m really excited about this and to hear what you put together. But let’s start with you. Tell us a little bit about you, Andrew Biggio.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sure. I was born and raised in and around Boston, Massachusetts, and I’ve always had a deep appreciation for veterans, even as a kid. You know, my favorite part of parades and ceremonies and Veterans Day was actually seeing the veterans, especially the World War II veterans. It was just something about them that… I was starstruck about what they did for us as a country. And both of my grandfather’s brothers, my grandfather on my mom’s side and my grandfather on my father’s side, each lost a brother in World War II. I grew up learning about sacrifice pretty young. And I was named after my grandfather’s brother who was killed in World War II, Andrew Biggio. The first Andrew Biggio was killed in action. And when I didn’t complete my own service in the Marines and I served in Iraq and Afghanistan, I started to ask myself, I wonder what happened to that first Andrew Biggio that didn’t happen to me. And the investigation process started on… His sacrifice in Italy, and the only way to do that was to try to find the men that served with him over there when he was killed.
SPEAKER 07 :
When did you start this journey then, Andrew?
SPEAKER 03 :
I want to say that I really got into World War II. I mean, I was in the Marines from 2006 to 2012, but… It was a couple years after that I started my regular life as a civilian that I started to ask myself about the price of war. And I think I want to say in 2015, I really started to dig deep into World War II history and what happened to PFC and Rubigio in Italy.
SPEAKER 07 :
And 2015, so you were a little ahead of me on your journey as far as starting to search out and appreciate World War II veterans. And by that time, they’re in their 90s, correct, Andrew?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yeah. Yeah. At the time I started interviewing World War II veterans, the youngest one was about 92 at that time.
SPEAKER 07 :
So your very first interview. Well, let’s go back. So your let’s see, it was your grandfather’s brother. So it would be a great uncle. Is that right? Andrew Biggio, who who died? What year? What what happened? Set that up for us.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sure. So PFC Andrew Biggio was born in 1925. He was in the high school class of 1944, which was really the majority of the 18-year-olds that fought in World War II, that high school class. They were, you know, the government allowed these class of 1944 to basically graduate half a year. So a lot of the kids in high school at that time left at Christmas break, especially if they were drafted or if they joined the military. That’s where they went. And he went over to Italy, was serving in Italy about three or four months before he was killed, north of Florence in an area called the Gothic Line. This is one of Hitler’s most strategic defenses across the Italian peninsula of Italy. Trenches, spider holes, pillboxes, machine gun mess, artillery. And while the fighting in France and Holland and in Germany was progressing, we still left basically several… divisions in Italy in order to keep 30,000 German troops in Italy from reinforcing the Russian front or reinforcing the Normandy front. And these guys in Italy really experienced this kind of Vietnam War-type style fighting, mudding hills, suicide missions going up hills, just to really keep those 30,000 German troops, those 30 German divisions in Italy. in Italy, and it was really just… I started reading Andrew Biggio’s letters he wrote home before he was killed, and it was really just sad for a 19-year-old kid to be writing home to his mom and begging for her to send him a gold cross he could wear around his neck before he has to go back up this specific hill again. I think about our nation’s youth today. Will they ever know what it’s like to write home to their mom knowing that letter is probably not going to get there for about three weeks to a month and ask for a gold cross to wear on your neck? And these are the kids that died for our freedom, and we’ve got to keep this awareness alive. After reading his letter, I was on a mission to interview as many World War II veterans as possible to educate the youth that maybe our high schools aren’t doing.
SPEAKER 07 :
Boy, that’s, you know, I’m just thinking of him writing that letter. You said it’s going to be three or four weeks before it gets there. And I know that there were questions, will I still be alive when she gets this letter? I mean, I think that had to go through his mind, yes?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, which he wasn’t, which is sad, because that letter was written on September 1st. 12th, and he was killed on the 17th. So by the time my great-grandmother got that letter, it was too late, and she was forever changed. My grandfather said she never even put up a Christmas tree after that. And it was something about her oldest boy not being there that just devastated this woman. And And I can’t think about how many more boys just like him wrote those same exact letters. And now that the World War II generation is fading so fast, I decided a last-ditch effort to deliver one of the best books out there. And that was, how could my book, how could I be different than any other World War II researcher, any other millions of World War II books already written? And that was… Me, being an Iraq and Afghanistan veteran and sitting in front of a World War II veteran asking him, how do I live a successful life after combat? How did you do it now that you’re 95, 98 years old? What message can you deliver to younger veterans? And I would do it by putting an M1 rifle into their hands again and recording their reactions, seeing the memories flood their brain.
SPEAKER 07 :
And tell us about the M1 rifle.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the M1 Grand was the standard rifle of that time. That was pretty much what everyone was issued during basic training and what almost every infantryman was issued in in World War II. So if there was one piece of equipment, one device that these guys had to eat with, sleep with, and go to war with, that one instrument that would bring the war back to them, it was that M1 rifle. That’s what you survived with. And I purchased a 1945 M1 rifle to have because I knew it was something that my great uncle possessed, what he had before he was killed. And I started to knock on these guys’ doors and put it in their hands again just to see their reaction, see their memories. The rifle really acted like a microphone.
SPEAKER 07 :
What would you say the first interview that you did when you did this, Andrew? Tell us about that.
SPEAKER 03 :
The first gentleman who I realized this was going to be an excellent idea, his name was Joe Drago, and Joe at that time was on the younger side. He was 92. He had fought in the Battle of Okinawa, and he was a Marine like me. Joe was pretty much bound to his recliner. You know, his legs were very skinny. They had atrophied from, you know, just old age and not getting around and exercising, typical elderly status. And when I put that rifle in his hands, I mean, he raised it immediately to his shoulder and aiming it. And he’s waving it around, smiling ear to ear, and he starts telling me all about the Battle of Okinawa. And he was a Marine. He was an infantryman. So for him to put that, it just seemed so right, so fitting for him to raise that to his shoulder at his age and be able to hold that rifle up like it was nothing. I saw an 18-year-old boy again. And so I just hit record on my iPhone and started. We talked about the Battle of Okinawa for like four hours. And he made me feel so normal. He made me feel so right because he’s the first person to teach me that, you know, war isn’t always black and white, good versus evil. And despite what all the books and media says about the greatest generation, that there was some not so great things they had to do to win World War II, especially in the Pacific theater. And I just, I had a remarkable experience with him that When he signed his name on my rifle, because I asked him to sign my rifle, I looked down at that signature and I said, I need to collect as many signatures on this rifle as possible. And I tell you, I never felt more in a race against time before.
SPEAKER 07 :
And you mentioned something about how do I live a successful life after combat. And Andrew, in this journey that I’ve been on, I have come to understand that nobody can understand combat unless they’ve gone through it. And that there is this bond between our warriors that have gone through combat. Your thoughts?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, you know, a lot of people came up to me and said, hey, you know, I never heard this guy’s story before, or this guy denied me interviews. How did you get to talk to him? How did you get to interview him? And being a veteran, bonding from veteran to veteran, that helped me a lot. That helped a lot with… basically relating to these guys, allowing them to let me in their house. And, yeah, there was a warrior ethos. There was a warrior status from veteran to veteran that I got to share with these guys. And it was very helpful to be a veteran and to bond with them. And to the point where, like, I realized after meeting 300 of them, A good portion of them had never returned to the battlefield they served on. They never cared to. They refused to. Even their family members who offered to take them in the 80s and in the 70s didn’t want to. And here I am in 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, asking them to go back with me, and they are agreeing to.
SPEAKER 07 :
It’s really remarkable. I recall I had, there was a gentleman out here in Colorado that had been at Battle of the Bulge, and I had tried to get the interview with him, and I had called, and he said, I’m not having a great day, and I just don’t feel like it. And I always want to honor that. Then I talked to a mutual friend, and this was several months later, and said, hey, have you interviewed this guy? And I said, he won’t give me an interview. And I want to honor that. And my friend said, well, let me give him a call. And I did eventually get that interview. But it’s something very delicate, particularly for me, because I’m not a veteran, I’m not a combat veteran, that I think it’s a little bit more delicate for me than maybe you. What do you think, Andrew?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I think being a veteran definitely gave me some leeway and a little bit of advantage. I do think so. I know a lot of people have had success interviewing veterans, but I certainly thought it did because, like I said, I had people come up to me saying, hey, this guy never allowed me to interview him, or how did you get into this guy’s house, or how did you even find this particular person? It’s being wrapped in the veteran’s community that connected me to them.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right. That’s most definitely true. So, hey, Andrew Biggio, this is such a fascinating book. The Rifle, Combat Stories from America’s Last World War II Veterans Told Through an M1 Garand. We’re going to go to break. Before we do that, though, a nonprofit that you know I love is the USMC Memorial Foundation. And they are raising money for the remodel of the Marine Memorial out at 6th and Colfax. And Apollo Sarles is the president of the USMC Memorial Foundation. She is a Marine veteran as well as a Vietnam veteran Gold Star wife, and she and her team are dedicated on making this happen. And it is a big undertaking, and you can help them by going to the USMCMemorialFoundation.org. That’s USMCMemorialFoundation.org. We’ll be right back with Andrew Biggio.
SPEAKER 06 :
Remax Realtor Karen Levine helps bring to life the individual stories of our servicemen and women. With her sponsorship of America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson, Karen honors the sacrifices of our military and is grateful for our freedom. As a member of the National Association of Realtors Board of Directors, Karen works to protect private property rights for all of us. Karen has a heart for our active duty military and veterans and is honored to help you buy or sell your home. Call Karen Levine at 303-877-7516 to help you navigate buying or selling your home. That’s 303-877-7516.
SPEAKER 10 :
All of Kim’s sponsors are in inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That’s kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N, dot com.
SPEAKER 04 :
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.
SPEAKER 07 :
And welcome back to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. Thrilled and honored to have on the line with me Andrew Biggio. He is the author of The Rifle. And this is an M1 Garand, which most of our World War II veterans and military carried during World War II. And you took this rifle to over 300 World War II veterans, correct? Yes. And what other stories do you want to tell us about? Because each story is unique, it’s different. And so what do you remember about some of these stories?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, you know, I chose 19 of the best stories I heard and made the book of it. And of course, that all had to do with who could remember so much in their age. So, I mean, they all had incredible stories. But the guys that were most articulate in their later ages, you know, one person that always pops in my head is a gentleman by the name of Clarence Cormier. And Clarence served with the 106th Division. And The 106th Division was one of the most heavily devastated divisions that served during the Battle of the Bulge, in which roughly 70,000 of their soldiers had to surrender. They were one of the biggest surrenders since the American Civil War. Clarence, on his second day of combat, had to surrender. And he was put in a train boxcar to a train by the Germans and was being transported into Germany to a prison camp when American fighter planes saw this train, German train. So, of course, the American pilots opened fire on it, but little did they know they were shooting their own prisoners of war. And Clarence you know, describe this whole situation to me in tears. And to see a 95-year-old man cry in front of me, I mean, it just changed my life. It really taught me about the access, up close and personal, of the Second World War. And as he’s explaining, trying to break out of this box talk and throwing their bodies on the ground to form the letters P-O-W so that the butterflies in the sky could see that these men were prisoners of war and had stopped shooting. He told stories in the book about the survival in the prison camp and the battle of the Bulge. It’s something every American should read.
SPEAKER 07 :
So you’re saying that Clarence and others were able to get out of the boxcar and then they laid together to form the words POW. Was that successful? And the Americans realizing that they needed to stop firing on this German train?
SPEAKER 03 :
It was as the plane started to dive in on them again, they saw and they pulled up and they bailed up. And the pilot waved to the men with his kerchief. And Clarence just told me that story crying. The plane was so low that he should have reached up and touched it.
SPEAKER 07 :
Wow, and just think about that, though. Also, Andrew, this American pilot, to be that low is pretty remarkable also. Right. Okay, and so tell us about another story.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sure. You know, in the Pacific Theater, I like to always talk about my friend uh gunnery sergeant bernie virgin from the second marine division and bernie came home after one became a new york state trooper he’s a police officer and i always found it amazing that he was able to you know that ptsd is not an excuse and not a reason to pass someone over to be a first responder or to be a police officer or a fireman because our greatest generation came home and they became Police officers and so on. And just because someone saw combat doesn’t mean that you have to pass over for a job. And he was an inspiration for Africa. He survived one of the largest Bondi charges. But two on side 10. almost 2,000 Japanese soldiers with their backs against the ocean, little ammo and no ammo, swords, daggers, bayonets. They charged the Marine and Army lines. And Bernie survived that. Survived that through hand-to-hand combat, which was pretty gruesome. And I think his story, which is, Absolutely true. Every time I’ve interviewed him on it, every detail has stayed the same. The records show he was there during the bonsai charge. And I view that for some other guys who may have been some other veterans who may think that their experiences were horrible and gruesome. Well, here’s a guy who’s able to live a successful life, have a family, have a career. go to college, own a home. And the way he processed it, his tricks of the trade of living with PTSD, I put in a book so that people, whether they’re veterans or not, they survive any kind of trauma, they can see that they can live up until they’re about 97, 98 years old. And he just lost Bernie, which in actually about two weeks ago, he passed away.
SPEAKER 07 :
Regarding PTSD, it was not called PTSD back then. Sometimes, what, shell shock, a variety of different things. Did you see any kind of a theme regarding what is now called PTSD?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, back then, they called it combat fatigue or shell shock, as you said. And, you know, a common theme was, I mean, generally, the… Our country ignored it, right? We didn’t want to admit that. We sent our guys off to war and they came back changed. It was embarrassing to admit somebody cracked up or had mental issues. It wasn’t promoted. And we didn’t talk about that. We hated it as much as we could. And that’s why the people today say, oh, how come all these guys today have all these issues? But My grandpa didn’t use it. The British generation didn’t. That’s just false. They did. They just did a better job of covering it up. We didn’t have nonprofits constantly on commercials, on television, promoting PTSD or veteran suicide or things like that. But all that existed. I met World War II veterans who told me they cut their wrists. I met World War II veterans who were alcoholics and became sober after so many years that it took them so long to leave their family. abusive or bank robbers, everything. You name it, that could be blamed on the war. I’ve interviewed war veterans who did the same, if not worse. And that’s it. The PTSD has never changed. A gunshot fired at you is a gunshot fired at you despite whatever conflict it is.
SPEAKER 07 :
What I have also learned, though, is it’s important for combat veterans to be able to speak with other combat veterans, that there’s something that’s very healing in doing so, Andrew.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, there is. And to me, even to me, it was therapeutic to meet with all these men and women that I had to be inside the rifle. And that’s why I did, for the last five years, I traveled the country coast to coast, border-to-border meeting with men and women because they were an inspiration. They were heroes, and that was my therapy. That’s what I did.
SPEAKER 07 :
And one other thing that somebody’s mentioned, because you kind of alluded to a comparison of PTSD for World War II veterans to PTSD from our current conflicts, is that After World War II, when guys came home, they typically had a several-week boat ride. And so they could talk. There was something healing about talking with other combat veterans there. And then here, you can be in a war theater. And then within two days or so, you can be back home. And it’s difficult to reconcile the war theater to people going to the grocery store and just regular life. What do you think about that, Andrew?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you can click your heels and be back in the United States in just a few hours from a combat zone. Definitely different than sitting on a boat and decompressing. You know, we actually had PTSD bases and clinics back in World War II. I met several veterans who had to go through a PTSD… Basically, of course, at Lake Placid in New York. And these guys were ex-prisoners of war. Some of them had just cracked up after being in war for so long, and they went to it. But not every veteran went to it, which I found interesting. And there was a ton of, you know… A ton of cracks in the system back then for guys just to go right home as well. But the other good thing is sometimes PTSD doesn’t affect you right away. You can come home and get on with your life, and then after stress builds up with family and stress builds up with a career that finally you can’t hold it in anymore. And now the problem that you were able to bury and keep yourself distracted with now resurfaced because of all the other stresses of life. So it might be three, four, five years, ten years after, then you start to develop symptoms of post-traumatic stress because you just can’t keep it buried anymore. So there’s all different types. Some guys come home right away and experience things. Other guys come out later. So it all just depends how your human psyche is developed. And the longevity, your PTSD is never going to go away. It’s how you’re able to manage it for the rest of your life. All these World War II veterans made me a promise in that life. Your bad memories, your feelings, your emotions, it’s all about longevity. It’s not going to go away. The war changes you.
SPEAKER 07 :
And, yeah, it definitely does. Let’s do one more story before we go to break. And, of course, we don’t want to give all the stories away because I think that this is really a book that everyone should have on their bookshelf. The Rifle Combat Stories from America’s Last World War II Veterans, told through an M1 Garand. So what is another story that you’d like to share with our listeners?
SPEAKER 03 :
Sure. I always tell this unknown story of, well, not unknown, but it’s not widely known, and that’s about Japanese Americans who fought in the war. And a lot of them were recruited from internment camps that we had set up in the U.S. because the U.S. government was unsure of Japanese Americans’ loyalty to to our nation during being at war with the Empire of Japan. So we started a battalion of all Japanese Americans, and we sent them to fight in Italy as a test. And they went on to be one of the most heavily decorated infantry regiments of all time. And that was a full 42nd Regimental Combat Team. And I interviewed a veteran by the name of Lawson Sakai. And Lawson was three Purple Hearts, three Bronze Stars. And his fighting through Italy was one of the bravest stories I’ve ever heard. And his infantry regiment was also sent into the Vosges Mountains in France to rescue a lost battalion of the 36th Division that were completely cut off and surrounded. And they lost 200 men doing so.
SPEAKER 07 :
Wow. Fascinating. I had not heard of that. Let’s go to break. I’m talking with Andrew Biggio regarding his book, The Rifle. And you can buy that at Amazon. And it has Kindle, audio, hardcover, the whole thing there. Again, that is The Rifle by Andrew Biggio. We’re going to go to break. We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 02 :
In these tumultuous times, it is necessary that we each have a freedom library to know and understand our history. Bury Him! A Memoir of the Vietnam War by Captain Doug Chamberlain is a must for your personal library. In this honest and gripping memoir, Captain Chamberlain recounts the chilling events that We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 07 :
And welcome back to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. Thrilled and honored to have on the line with me, Andrew Biggio. He is the author of The Rifle. And before we went to break, Andrew, you mentioned that there were Americans, Japanese Americans, that were put into… Did they call them internment camps? But then actually there was a division of Japanese Americans that fought valiantly in Italy. And there were a number of Germans. In fact, my heritage is German. Living in America were Germans also rounded up and put into these camps.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, so German-Americans, no. They were not put in internment camps. Japanese-Americans, however, were. And, you know, German-Americans obviously had been widespread, the open nation, and had been immigrating to the United States far longer than Japanese-Americans who had major populations in California and Hawaii. And so, no, the Japanese-Americans… um they’re put in internment camps and they weren’t concentration camps like people think of what hitler set up for the jews over in europe but they were just living quarters and so people found out where their allegiance is going to be where their loyalty is going to be and i think a lot of that was proven um during the development of the 100th battalion and the full 42nd regimental combat team um, when basically general Mark Clark in Italy said, send me more Japanese Americans because they were such good fighters. They were such, and they hold that their association and their veterans groups to this day are so proud of that, that they have leagues and associations and amendments every year about the full 42nd. There’s still plenty of survivors left from that division who I got to meet at their reunion in Las Vegas. So, um, Yeah, they weren’t. In the United States, we kept German and Italian POW camps where they came back to the United States, and we used them for working around the United States. So there was rebuilding highways, cutting down trees, so on and so forth.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. Well, let’s change gears just a little bit. And what about women in World War II?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, you know, the whole point of the rifle and collecting signatures on this rifle was to, I wanted to represent the whole war. I wanted to show what black Americans did in World War II, what Native Americans did, what cooks did, what pilots did, what bombardiers did, and of course what women did. And on the rifle itself, I have women that were physical therapists in the Army, women that were occupational therapists, you know, women that were nurses that helped veterans learn how to walk again after losing their legs using prosthetics. I have nurses, nurses who were stationed in England, nurses were stationed in New Guinea, taking care of the traumatically wounded veterans. How awesome it was for these veterans to see a woman taking care of them over in these battlefields went a long way. And, of course, I had women that were stenographers, typewriters, you know, writing letters home to tell fans that their son was missing in action or killed in action. I mean, all this stuff. So what would you say is one of the most memorable stories that you can recall in talking with women that were part of the Greatest Generation? Oh, man, I have a few of them. I have women that were like Rosie the Riveter types I had. But I really think the women over in New Guinea, so you take a woman, an American woman who could have stayed home, did whatever, but she volunteers to be an occupational therapist and is sent to the island of New Guinea, you know, total jungle. And these guys are coming to her with these grave injuries, young boys, 19 years old, 20 years old, being told they’re never going to be able to walk again or they’ve lost a limb. You know, very devastating news for a 19-year-old kid. And here’s this woman fitting them for a prosthetic leg, teaching them how to walk on prosthetics, giving them hope that they can live a normal life. And to me, that was just such a powerful thing. I don’t think a lot of people realize about women in World War II. They just think women stayed home and supported the war effort when a lot of them did, in fact, go overseas. I mean, a lot of them. And is she still living? Do you know? Okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
And what was her story? Because the Battle of the Bulge was Hitler’s kind of last hurrah on World War II, and it was a very, very difficult battle. But what did you learn from her?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, boy. What did I learn from her? She… She really, I mean, at 105 years old, she’s still wearing her Army dress uniform. I learned a lot about her, about pride. You know, even for her age at 105, you know, a lot of women, a lot of people, a lot of people that age would just stay in their home or stay in their nursing home and She made sure to the very last of her days at 105 years old that not a piece of lint or a thread came off her uniform. Her hair was gone. She took pride in herself and to never give up and to never let herself go. And to me, that just was like, I want to be like that. I want to be like that in my 70s, my 80s. I definitely won’t be 105 years old, but a lot of self-care and self-pride is what she taught me.
SPEAKER 07 :
And tell us another story about a woman that you interviewed.
SPEAKER 03 :
Um, let’s see. You know, I think stenographers of World War II were a huge part. There was just so much news and so much people waiting at home. There was no Facebook. People weren’t making phone calls. There wasn’t email. I mean, people, these mothers, these family members, they stood by the door. They watched the postman of the Western Union people come and deliver these letters. And they were just dying to know what the status was of their, His son or husband or father in World War II had been captured as a missing in action, as he killed in action, and he’s wounded. How wounded is he? Where is he now? Where’s my son now? And these stenographers, these typists, these women typists were writing thousands of letters a day. to these gold star mothers, these families, weeding on news of their loved ones during World War II. And I thought that was a very powerful job. And I met a stenographer from the 1st Marine Division. And then there’s Millie Cox. She’s still alive. She’s probably 98 now, living in Massachusetts. And she probably wears her Marine Corps uniform on Veterans Day and Memorial Day. And we’re still in touch. And she still… considering she was a type that she’s still typing Facebook messages to me in 2023.
SPEAKER 07 :
Wow, that is remarkable. As you have interviewed, you said you’ve interviewed over 300 World War II veterans, correct? Yep. What would you say, is there a major theme regarding these men and women?
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t know. You know, the major theme I saw was they just didn’t stop. Even when they retired from one job, they picked up another job and they just stayed busy. And I feel like that’s really what gave them their longevity. That’s what really kept their mind off the negative, off the war, was just staying busy. I met some people who didn’t start running marathons until they were in their 60s. I met people who retired from three different jobs, people who just stayed active. And that was really the key to success.
SPEAKER 07 :
And in the staying active, I think also the mental component of staying active mentally is important, Andrew.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think so, too. Yeah, that’s really what I learned from all of them. That’s what I plan to do.
SPEAKER 07 :
So let’s talk a little bit more about Andrew Biggio, Private First Class. What did you find out about him? What more about him can we share with people?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. So, you know, I eventually did find survivors that were on that hill, that were in that battle with Andrew. And it was just such a horrible fight. I mean, these Americans had to go up these hills to survive. you know, routed Germans out of Italy. And it looked like the Germans had taken chainsaws to all the trees on the hill. There was just nowhere to hide, nowhere to duck down, nowhere to do anything. And they were being forced to go up. It was like a suicide mission. So, like, we saw a lot of what was in Italy, a lot of mutiny, a lot of refusal of orders. And that’s just stuff that’s not really in movies and stuff like that because it’s not glamorous. And these survivors, these… These veterans in Italy explained all this to me. Being over in Italy in September and October while they’re getting newspapers and headlines that the war is advancing through France and Holland and Belgium, and they’re still in Italy. And it was just a lot of lack of motivation and the fact that they had to go up. So in essence, they were there holding the line to keep these Germans busy so that those Germans would not be reinforcements over in Normandy. Is that correct? That’s right. Okay. And that…
SPEAKER 07 :
I guess that would be really difficult. Do you think that they knew that at the time? Or do you think that they thought that they were trying to take those lines? What do you think?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, they definitely knew that at the time because in Andrew’s letter at home, he was saying, Dear Mom, the Russians are going to win this war. And I heard about the invasion over in France. And so they knew. They were very much in…
SPEAKER 07 :
in tune to what was going on and when did he go into the army he joined the 34th infantry division may of 1944 and he was killed in action september of 44. wow and of course uh in june of 44 was when was d-day so he was so he was writing to his mother about that in letters
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly, yep.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. Let’s go to break. I’m talking with Andrew Biggio about his book, The Rifle, which is absolutely fascinating. And he interviewed over 300 World War II veterans and highlights 19 stories in his book. We’re going to go to break. Before we do that, though, Hooters Restaurants is another great sponsor of the show. They have five locations. That’s Loveland, Aurora, Westminster, Lone Tree, and Colorado Springs. They have all kinds of specials for both happy hour and lunchtime, Monday through Friday. How they became sponsors of the show, it’s a really interesting story about freedom and free markets and capitalism. And you can find that at my website at KimMunson.com. So we’re going to go to break. When we come back, we will continue the interview with Andrew Biggio regarding his book, The Rifle.
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SPEAKER 09 :
From the mountains to the prairies,
SPEAKER 07 :
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And be sure and just watch what we’re doing with all this because it’s super interesting stories. I’m thrilled to have on the line with me Andrew Biggio. He is the author of The Rifle. And you interviewed over 300 World War II veterans in order to write this book and have shared a few stories. What’s another story that you think people would like to know more about?
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, I got to spend a lot of time with America’s last Medal of Honor recipient of the Second World War, and that was Herschel Woody Williams. He was the last living Medal of Honor recipient to be awarded our nation’s highest medal by President Truman on the White House lawn in 1945. And he earned the Congressional Medal of Honor as a flamethrower operator on the island of Iwo Jima in 1945. And he just had the weight of the world on his shoulders. And had been involved in the Medal of Honor Society since there was Spanish-American veterans alive and Medal of Honor recipients. And I just thought he was so historic. This was a guy who could have given up life as soon as he came home, gotten beers bought for him for free for the rest of his life, and just lived off being a Medal of Honor recipient. Instead, he dedicated his entire life to veterans, veterans’ causes. He worked for the Veterans Affairs for 32 years. He’s put up monuments. Everything just raised awareness for those veterans. And he always told me that the medal, he didn’t wear the medal for himself, but he wore it for those who couldn’t wear it, meaning those who never came home. And Woody Williams was born and bred in West Virginia. And that’s where he passed away. And I got to see him, his funeral. He, as the last Medal of Honor recipient, he lied. in the capital rotunda in our nation’s capital and to see his casket in there was uh that’s it’ll be forever historic and i don’t think a lot of people in this country knew that the last medal of honor recipient in world war ii passed away
SPEAKER 07 :
I think a lot of people don’t understand. When I first started this journey, Medal of Honor recipients are not… I can’t remember. They’re not winners. I think that’s it. So many people sometimes say Medal of Honor winner, and that’s almost sacrilegious to say that. They are Medal of Honor recipients. It’s not something that you win.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s correct.
SPEAKER 07 :
And that’s important that people understand that. So it is earned. What more can you tell us about that battle? And being a flamethrower, for people that don’t understand what that was, I mean, it’s super dangerous. Explain to our listeners what that entailed exactly.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, a Medal of Honor, well, excuse me, a flamethrower operator at that time was, you know, a demolitionist. They were responsible for taking out pillboxes, entrenched enemies, and fortifications, right? So if you can’t get in there, you can’t get a grenade in there, you can’t send men in there. The way to take out a fortification or a bunker was with flame, was with a flamethrower. And that flame would suck all the oxygen out. out of a fortification of an entrenched army who wouldn’t surrender. And, of course, that was the whole Japanese soldiers’ MO. They never surrendered. They stood entrenched, and they would commit suicide in order to take out any Americans. So those flamethrowers were a huge part of winning the fight in the Pacific Theater. Go ahead. And Woody himself… is accredited for taking out nearly seven pillboxes on the island of Iwo Jima to earn him that medal.
SPEAKER 07 :
And what was a flamethrower exactly? So you actually obviously have fuel. So what did it look like exactly?
SPEAKER 03 :
They had to carry a canister on their back. So they carried a backpack, a metal backpack with fuel. And a long hose would go from the tank to a hose, which would shoot the fuel. It had a primer and had a lit top to it. So it was constantly just spraying gasoline fuel and sometimes jet fuel onto their enemies and into their enemy positions. So this was a very dangerous device to carry because if the enemy bullet had hit it on their back, it could explode. and killed the operator.
SPEAKER 07 :
And you said that was this all in one particular battle where he took out seven pillboxes?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, this is the Battle of Iwo Jima, and he served with the 3rd Marine Division during World War II, and he opened up a path for his whole battalion to continue to advance throughout the island. And that was one of the worst battles for the Marine Corps.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right. It is one of the most famous battles of the Marine Corps. And it was a long battle. My understanding, Andrew, is that our guys were told that because we had been bombing and attacking… Iwo Jima by air and by bombardment, and ideally thought that the Japanese were softened up. But that was not the case because there were… tunnels throughout the island. And so they could get away through these tunnels to come up someplace else. And so our guys initially were told that it should not be that long of a battle. But it was, what was it? Was it 30 or 40 days? Is that right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, we ended up losing about 8,000 Marines.
SPEAKER 07 :
And, yes, so it was very, very devastating. But we won as well. And the reason that Iwo Jima was so important was for the airfields, because the Americans then were able to actually have bombers that could go over the Japanese airfield. mainland. When was this part of the Battle of Iwo Jima when he did this? Was it midway through, or when was it?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, it was pretty early on. I believe February, late February, he was accredited. I forget the exact dates, but it was pretty early on, because he went on before he was even given the medal. He went all the way to the end of the battle, and he actually wounded himself. And he was wounded by an immortal fire toward the end of the battle. And a battle that was supposed to be like about a week, as you said, ended up being about two months. And 8,000 Marines gave their life on that island, I think, before sometime in March when the island was declared secure. The whole 5th Marine Division was really created for taking Iwo Jima. The 5th Marine Division was brand new. The 3rd Marine Division had already fought in Guam. Woody’s first combat was in Guam first. And the 5th Marine Division was designed for Iwo Jima, and they were never used again after that. That’s how bad and big the battle was for the airfield there. And Woody went back to Iwo Jima, I think, on the 70th anniversary. and brought his green children back there. And they don’t allow you to really explore too much or dig or nothing like that. And they didn’t provide quarter johns for him. So he told me he was never going to go back and visit it again.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, and it’s not a place that civilians can go. It’s very difficult to visit that. But, yeah. We have just a few minutes left on this. And how would you say all these interviews changed you, Andrew Biggio?
SPEAKER 03 :
Wow. They… I just, I wanted to meet these guys my whole life. The stories and the people I read about and the movies I watched, I didn’t want to meet them my whole life. One day I just got up and did it. I just went up and did it and they were everything to me. They were father figures, grandfather figures and war heroes to me. And they’ve taught me not just how to be a good veteran, but how to be a good dad. how to be a good husband, and how to be a good member of society. And I hope that I’ve taken the best attributes from them and put it into my regular life.
SPEAKER 07 :
And taking those lessons, what would you say to young people in America today regarding where we are? What’s the advice that you would give to them after all of these interviews you’ve done?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you know, that advice is just so in-depth, but I think just please, please, please talk to your local World War II veteran before it’s too late. And yes, they may not be walking every corner of the street, but you can find them at your local nursing home, your local senior center, and have a conversation with them before it’s too late because in five years they’re going to be gone. And, you know, so many veterans get…
SPEAKER 07 :
attention but like you don’t even know who’s living next door to you that elderly person that you’ve always seen your whole life could be a world war ii veteran i beg you to spend some time with them talk to them before it’s too late that way you can learn your own lessons well and i think one thing that i realized after my trip in 2016 is as you mentioned these are people that have been in our lives i had three uncles that served in world war ii And they all passed on before I had the opportunity to get their interviews. And I stepped back and I thought, oh my gosh, as a kid I had no idea when we did these family reunions that I was really in the presence of Of real heroes. And I wish I would have known that back then. I know you can’t live life of I wishes, but oh my gosh, I would have loved to have started this project much earlier. And you probably, of course, you’re just a young guy, but you probably do as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’ll never forget these men and women. There’ll be nothing that I like it again in my lifetime, I think.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, and we have a responsibility, I think, Andrew Biggio, to tell these stories. But we also have a duty to not squander what they put their lives on to protect. And so we have a real responsibility as our generation. And many times I say that we were made for this moment. And indeed, I do believe that. Your final thought, Andrew Biggio?
SPEAKER 03 :
Just thank you for having me on the show. And you can buy the rifle on Amazon, the rifle. I’m on Instagram as The Rifle and Facebook. And I’m going to continue. As long as these men and women have oxygen in their lungs, I’m going to continue to tell their story.
SPEAKER 07 :
I love that. Andrew Biggio, thank you so much for sharing your story and your journey regarding the rifle. And my friends, indeed, we do stand on the shoulders of giants. So God bless you and God bless America.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m., here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 01 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
