As tensions rise in Sacramento over the controversial AB495 bill, we speak with Will Estrada on the ground realities of parental rights under threat. In the international sphere, notable expert Gordon Chang shares insights on China’s strategic observations regarding the ongoing Russian-Ukrainian diplomatic developments, potentially reshaping global dynamics.
SPEAKER 03 :
from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, good afternoon and welcome to this Tuesday edition of Washington Watch. Glad to have you on board with us. I am Jody Heiss, senior fellow here at the Family Research Council. An honor to be filling in for Tony this month. We’ve got a lot to bring your way today. Let me unfold the highlights. As you are well aware by now, there’s been a lot of optimism following yesterday’s historic White House meeting, the peace summit between Ukrainian president and other key European leaders. And now, reportedly, there are arrangements being made for a meeting between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky and Russian President Vladimir Putin.
SPEAKER 02 :
Following the encouraging conversations yesterday, President Trump spoke with President Putin by phone, and he agreed to begin the next phase of the peace process, a meeting between President Putin and President Zelensky, which would be followed, if necessary, by a trilateral meeting between President Zelensky and President Trump.
SPEAKER 06 :
That was White House Press Secretary Carolina Leavitt speaking to reporters earlier today, and I’ll get an assessment of all the latest developments in the Russia-Ukraine war when I’m joined in just a few moments by Utah Congressman Burgess Owens. And later in the program, I’ll be speaking with Asia expert Gordon Chang to discuss what China is gleaning from the ongoing US-led diplomatic efforts to stop Russia’s war in Ukraine. Specifically, we’re going to be talking about how might China be affected in terms of what they’re wanting to do in Taiwan. So we’ve got a lot to talk about and we’ll bring that your way a little bit later in the program. Meanwhile, in domestic news, right now as we speak, literally thousands of people are gathered outside the California State Capitol building in Sacramento to rally against AB495, which is the radical bill that we’ve been talking a lot about. It would undermine parental rights and create an alarming risk of child abduction and exploitation. Well, I’ll be joined by Will Estrada with the Homeschool Legal Defense Association, who is there on the ground here in just a little bit. And by the way, we also, I want to let you know, we have a petition that you can sign. It is calling on the California state leaders to reject AB-495, and you can sign on to that and help us with a powerful voice. Simply text the word PARENTS to 67742, that’s parents to 67742. And then lastly, we have an executive order that is being crafted right now by the Trump administration that could pave the way for the elimination of mail-in voting.
SPEAKER 09 :
You can never have a real democracy with mail-in ballots. And we, as a Republican Party, are going to do everything possible that we get rid of mail-in ballots. We’re going to start with an executive order that’s being written right now by the best lawyers in the country to end mail-in ballots because they’re corrupt.
SPEAKER 06 :
That, of course, was President Trump. He was speaking yesterday to reporters. And I’ll be discussing this potential executive order a little bit later in the program when I’m joined by Cleta Mitchell. She’s the founder of the Election Integrity Network. So you don’t want to miss any part of the day. We’ve got a lot of breaking news to bring your way. And if by chance you do miss any of it, you can always go to our website, TonyPerkins.com, and catch up. Also, I want to encourage you, don’t forget, coming up October 17th and 18th in Chino Hills, California, our PrayVoteStand Summit. You can go right after the program to PrayVoteStand.org for more details, and we certainly want to encourage you to do that. All right, let’s jump into our program tonight. Efforts, as I mentioned a moment ago, efforts to end the Russia-Ukraine war continue to progress. Specifically, they seem to be in high gear ever since President Trump’s latest series of historic meetings. And now, arrangements, at least reportedly, are being made for a meeting between Russia President Putin and Ukrainian President Zelensky. So are we really potentially… close to seeing an end to this three and a half year war. Well, joining me now to discuss this and more is Congressman Burgess Owens. He’s the vice chair of the House Education and Workforce Committee. He represents the fourth congressional district of Utah. Congressman Owens, always an honor to have you on Washington Watch. Welcome back.
SPEAKER 23 :
Jody, same here, my friend. Look forward to chatting with you. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 06 :
Alrighty. So let me just start by getting your assessment of the meetings that President Trump has had on this Russia-Ukraine war. First on Friday last week with Putin and then yesterday with Zelensky and other European leaders. What’s your thoughts with how this is progressing?
SPEAKER 23 :
Well, I’m going to tie into a little bit of my football experience. I haven’t seen anything like the force of President Trump since the Al Davis days. He is a remarkable leader. He’s a genius when it comes down to business, a genius when it comes down to negotiating. And it’s time for us all to respect that. And I think that’s what’s happened with the Republican Party, our conference. We still have a lot of different ways we approach it, as you know. We approach things in different ways based on our conference, based on our folks that we’re actually a district that we’re supporting. But when we see someone that we can trust, it’s instincts, it’s focus, and the results, then we kind of come in and go with that strategy. So I see right now something’s happened that we have been waiting for a long time. The end of the day, Jody, is stopping the killing of innocent lives, killing of innocent people. And President Trump has the respect from those around the world that can now stand with him and say, let’s get this thing done with. And I think Putin’s going to actually respect that also in the process.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, it’s very interesting. I thought even Putin in a joint press conference Friday that he had along with President Trump, he actually confirmed that there would not have even been a war in Ukraine had Trump been in office rather than Joe Biden. I thought that was extremely interesting coming from Putin himself. What were your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER 23 :
Well, people respect strength. I mean, it comes down to that. Our enemies, our friends, there’s something about strength that we look to, that we take comfort in, and we also want to be wary of if we end up going up against it. So I’m not surprised uh what what president trump has done over the last six months and last eight months now it’s proven to everyone that he’s going to get things accomplished 24 7. uh and he’s put together a remarkable team that understands how to use our greatest strengths which is our economy you know we have the the greatest uh middle class in the history of mankind We understand that it comes from the desire of freedom and innovation and growth. And our president truly respects that and is going to make sure that everyone around the world who wants to take advantage of our middle class, our consumer base, has a way of paying for that. And sometimes it’s just a matter of sitting back, respecting the fact we want peace around the world, and being partners with us in that process. So it’s exciting to see what’s going on. And I’ll say this, Jodi, I’m so glad that I’m here during this moment to take a little bit apart in this remarkable time that we’re going through.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, it really is a historical moment in which we’re living and seeing all this unfold. It is not surprising, I’ll put it that way to me, but nonetheless, still shocking to see how in spite of all the positive developments that are underway, there are still those in the legacy media, as well as certainly those within the Democratic Party who are absolutely not satisfied with what President Trump has done. In fact, they’re even criticizing, and many of them. What do you make of the left’s response when we see so many issues that are happening in different places all around the world that are being resolved due to the diplomatic efforts of President Trump?
SPEAKER 23 :
Jody, this is what happens when Marxists see their power being pulled away from them. It’s mashing of teeth. They are totally without wisdom. They are frantic. This has not happened to them. They have seen for decades a slow progression to finally get to where they can control our country, that they can take away the hopes and the dreams of our nation. And they’re finding one person, one man that shows up, puts a team around him, and they’re losing it within eight months. So they’re not going to like what he’s doing, because what he’s doing is for the American people. He’s cleaning up crime. He’s stopping those who do harm to our country from coming into our country. They’re looking at that middle class I talked about, Looking at them and appreciating who they are and giving them the ability to build a dream. So don’t expect anything from the left. I would hope, this is what I’m hoping, is that those good Democrats who love our nation, who have been fooled in the past because it’s hard, Marxist left, realize who you’re partnering up with and get away from them. Become independent. Have that place where you can look at what’s best for you and your family and your future and vote in that regard. Do not vote for this hard leftist. that’s actually trying to destroy our country. And it had been doing a good job of dividing us up to this point before President Trump came back to office.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, there’s a lot of folks out there hoping right along with you that what you said will become a reality. Congressman Burgess Owens, if I can switch gears on you. You are vice chair of the House Education Workforce Committee. I wanted to get your take on the Trump administration’s crackdown on college campuses. Specifically, it was reported this week that since the start here of Trump’s second administration, more than 6,000 foreign student visas have been revoked due to everything from visa overstays to multiple encounters from the law from multiple different activities. But what is the message that you hope students from overseas are hearing right now from this administration?
SPEAKER 23 :
A very, very simple, it’s an honor, it’s a privilege to come to this country, to take advantage of this remarkable society and culture we have. If you blow it, go back home. If you don’t appreciate it, go back home. It’s like any of us owning a property and opening the door and inviting our guests to come in. If they decide they want to start demonstrating outside of our household that they do not own, then we’re going to make sure they don’t come back into our household. So it’s really common sense. It’s appreciation for who we are. It’s not taking this idea that you’re entitled. This entitlement process that we now have to get past, and that’s something our kids have been trained for quite a while. We have to get past it because it makes everybody around these entitled people miserable. So we’re going to get back to those who come here, come for a reason, they come for a period of time, they come here legally, and they come here appreciating the great opportunity they have to live in this country. And when they leave here, they leave here talking with great praise about the American people and the system that allowed them to move forward. So I’m excited about it. And again, this is President Trump at his best getting our culture back to bottom line. I’m excited about, again, seeing this. And those who don’t want to come here and praise and be excited about it, go someplace else. Go back home, and we’ll be okay with that, too.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. And yet again, we’re watching the Democrats push back on all of this. So, again, it just never stops. There’s nothing this president can do that would that would please them. While we have just less than a couple of minutes left, I wanted to get your take on President Trump’s efforts to make D.C. safe again. How is that coming? Your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER 23 :
Oh, my goodness. This is a game changer. What’s happening now is American people are beginning to feel and see what it is for a leader to really care for them. I think it’s going to be in D.C. itself. Keep in mind, these folks have kind of taken for granted that living in fear is just the way it is. Now they’re seeing that it doesn’t have to be this way. And guess what’s going to happen next go around when it comes down to voting. They’re going to vote for themselves. They’re going to vote for safety, the idea of having freedom and knowing their kids are safe. This is a game changer with so many Americans. And I’ll tell you what, again, the Democrats on the wrong side of this issue, because they show they could care less about the American people. They love to have anger and divisiveness and fear and hopelessness, and that’s not the American way. So D.C. is an example of how we’re going to transition to a truly America-first country, and I’m looking forward again to seeing how this works out also as we move forward.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, based on the stats that are already coming out on this, there are already not only a lot of arrests, but crime is already coming down, and it couldn’t happen quickly enough. Thank you so much, Utah Congressman Burgess Owens. Always great to see you, and thank you for coming on and joining us this evening on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 23 :
Thank you, Jody. Thank you, my friend. And talk to you soon. All the best.
SPEAKER 06 :
All righty. Thank you. All right. Coming up, we’re going to go live to California, where thousands right now are rallying against a radical and dangerous bill. So stay tuned. We’ll bring it your way right after the break.
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The family is the oldest, most tested, and most reliable unit of society. It is divinely created and sustained. And yet, there are those who are always tampering with its values and structure. That’s why we need organizations like the Family Research Council that can effectively defend and strengthen the family.
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Family Research Council began over 40 years ago, like all great movements of God, with prayer. Today, rooted in the heart of the nation’s capital, FRC continues to champion faith, family, and freedom in public policy and the culture from a biblical worldview.
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory. Family Research Council invites you to join our Stand on the Word Bible reading plan as we reflect upon the life of Jesus, the Word who dwelt among us. Come with us and discover the glory of the Word. Read the Gospels and witness the life-changing story of Jesus, His life, death, and resurrection. Come read how Jesus transformed the lives of common people and how those same people transformed the known world through the power of the Holy Spirit. Come with us for 10 to 15 minutes a day and read the entire New Testament before the new year. Find our Bible reading plan in daily devotionals from Tony Perkins at frc.org slash Bible. Join us and stand on the word.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thank you so much for joining us today. I’m Jody Heiss, an honor to be filling in for Tony. All right. Thousands have been gathering today at the California State Capitol in Sacramento in a rally. against a bill, AB 495. It’s a radical bill. We’ve been talking a lot about it. It would undermine parental rights and literally create an alarming risk of child abduction and exploitation. And with the pushback, literally, that is swelling in California, we wonder if the state leaders there are getting the message. Well, joining me now from the state capitol in California is Will Estrada. He’s a senior counsel for the Homeschool Legal Defense Association. Will, glad to have you. Welcome back to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, Congressman, thank you so much for having me on. It’s a privilege to be with you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, it’s an honor to have you, and I understand the rally is actually wrapping up right now, and I want to get your take on that and what it was like there today. But before I do that, let me just reiterate, have you reiterate for our viewers and listeners why your organization is among a host of others who are opposed to this bill.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, we were founded in 1983. Back then, homeschooling was illegal in many of the 50 states. You had parents being persecuted for homeschooling, facing jail time. And through the work of Homeschool Legal Defense and our allies, state leaders, and really just brave, engaged parents like the thousands who came out today, homeschooling is now legal in all 50 states. It’s legal in California. But this bill… threatens all of that. AB-495 won’t just affect homeschool parents. It’ll affect private school parents, public school parents, every single person with their parental rights. And what I said here a few minutes ago in the rally was, quite simply, it comes between the parent-child relationship. We go back to the ancient Jewish and Christian scriptures that God created the family, and the family came first before government. Pre-political is what our founders said. And this bill would come between that. The U.S. Supreme Court for 102 years has said that parental rights are fundamental, first in the case of Meyer v. Nebraska, then Pierce v. Society of Sisters in 1925, where the Supreme Court said that the child is not the mere creature of the state. 1972, Wisconsin versus Yoder. 2000, Troxell versus Granville. And just recently, a few months ago, in the case of Mahmoud versus Taylor, where the U.S. Supreme Court struck down and said that parents do have the right to up their kids out of curriculum that violates their religious freedom in Montgomery County. So we heard from numerous legislators, numerous speakers. There were about three to 4,000 people who came out. It’s a very hot day here in Sacramento. It was incredibly inspiring to see this. And I think the California Senate and Governor Newsom are getting the message.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, that’s what I wanted to ask you. What kind of response do you think this is receiving? Where is the bill right now? What’s the latest on the bill and what do you think is the future for it?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, the bill kind of sailed through under the radar in the Assembly. It’s already passed the California Assembly, and now it’s in the Senate. It’s gone through numerous committee meetings, and yesterday in the Appropriations Committee, the California Senate Appropriations Committee could have sent the bill on to the full Senate, but instead they put it on the suspension file. So we are still… waiting to see what could happen. Of course, the California Democrats have a super majority. At any point, they could move the bill off the suspension file, send it to the full Senate floor. But right now, it’s still on the suspension file. I think that’s a good sign. There is still hope. Today, just seeing the thousands of people who came out, we’re hearing that the California Senate is getting phone calls, that Governor Newsom’s office is getting phone calls. And so, Congressman, I’m an optimist. i still think that there are engaged parents here and we’re calling on everyone to call their california senators call governor newsom’s office and say reject ab495 but as i closed in my remarks if the california senate does pass this bill If Governor Newsom does sign it into law, then rest assured, we and our friends at Alliance Defending Freedom and ACLJ and First Liberty and all the conservative legal law firms out there, along with Homeschool Legal Defense, we will zealously defend parental rights. I’m a California licensed attorney. I’m proud to represent California HSLDA members, and we will not let this bill stand if it’s used to threaten parental rights.
SPEAKER 06 :
Great to hear. Great to hear. Tell me what was the attitude of the people who attended the rally today? Were they as hopeful and optimistic as you? Was it a good morale boosting time? What was it like?
SPEAKER 04 :
It was one of the most inspiring rallies I’ve ever been to. I’ve been to many. I’ve spoken at many. I’ve been in Illinois. I’ve been in New Jersey and other states. But it really, Pastor Jack Hibbs with Calvary Chapel, he really set the stage and said, we need to pray for our legislators. We need to pray for all of them, whether we voted for them or not. That was encouraging and inspiring. The crowd was revved up. We heard from numerous legislators as well. So if I could characterize it in one word, it would be upbeat, ready to go and make their voices heard.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s awesome. We had Pastor Jack on with us just yesterday, and he did an amazing job laying this out. And as a result, literally, who knows how many thousands and thousands of people fasting and praying for you and the others right there today. In our closing minute or so, what are some action steps that you would give to our viewing and listening audience right now? What can they do at this point?
SPEAKER 04 :
The main thing right now is for California listeners, call your California senator. Respectfully, politely, but firmly tell them to please reject AB-495 because of how the bill comes between the parent-child relationship. That’s probably the most important thing right now. But you can also call Governor Newsom’s office. Obviously, we know that the governor is watching this closely. And I think today’s rally on the steps in Sacramento sent a message that California parents, whether they’re Republican, Democrat, Latino, white, black. rich, poor, suburban, urban, rural. They do not want the government coming between them and their precious children. So call your state senator, call your governor, and tell them to reject AB-495. For our listeners in other states, please pray. Pray and encourage people to get their message out.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you so much, Will Estrada, Senior Counsel for the Homeschool Legal Defense Association. And by the way, let me just say again, we have a petition that our viewers can sign right now. Just text the word PARENTS to 67742. That’s another action step that you can take even right now. All right, Will Estrada, thank you. All right, coming up… The end of mail-in voting? We’ll see. Stay tuned and we’ll bring that story your way in a moment.
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SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you for joining us today on Washington Watch. Welcome back. I’m Jody Heiss filling in for Tony. All right. Yesterday, President Trump told reporters that he has a team of lawyers who are crafting an executive order that will pave the way for the elimination of mail-in voting. His remarks follow a social media post that he put out on Monday stating that he’s going to be leading a movement to get rid of mail-in ballots as part of his effort to bring honesty into the 2026 midterm elections. Well, the big question that’s floating around is whether or not an executive order can accomplish what the president is aiming to do. And is this even the best way to approach the entire issue? Well, joining me now to discuss this is certainly one of my heroes as it relates to election integrity. Cleta Mitchell is the Senior Legal Fellow at the Conservative Partnership Institute, as well as the founder of the Election Integrity Network. Cleta, welcome back. Good to see you. Great to see you, Jody. Okay, I want to start with this. President Trump has now said multiple times that mail-in voting is corrupt. So lay out for us just what are the major issues, the major problems with mail-in voting.
SPEAKER 24 :
This is one of those where to begin. Let’s start with the fact that what began as a way to help people be able to vote who were going to be out of the jurisdiction on election day, or they did not have, maybe they were in the hospital, et cetera. It’s what began as a way to assist those people who needed help because they couldn’t go to the polls in person has become a nightmare. And that’s truly what it is. It is a nightmare. And anyone who thinks that you vote by mail and everything’s fine, you would be shocked. This is one of those things where if you watched how many people touch your ballot, how people have to determine whether when they get the ballot and they decide whether they have to discern whether or not who you voted for. How about all this ballot cheering we’ve heard about? Well, that’s where you have perfect strangers You are taking your mail ballot. This goes on for days and sometimes weeks in some states where they are calling people to say, hey, you forgot to sign this or hey, you made a mistake. So can you come and cure your ballot so it can be counted? and how about the fact that there’s very little verification of the identity of the person who is actually uh submitting the ballot i i call signature verification an oxymoron like friendly divorce uh because there’s really a signature does not verify uh anything and so it This universal vote by mail, it is a nightmare. There’s no way to secure the vote. There was a report today in the New York Post about a Michigan City Council member who was depositing a whole batch of absentee ballots in a drop box. There’s video footage of him. So he’s basically stuffing the ballot box for his reelection. And here’s the most important thing, Jody. We, over the years, over the century of the last part, last century, there were all of these safeguards built into protecting the voter, such as the secret ballot. Well, if you’re not voting in the polling place, there’s no way to protect the secret ballot. What if you have an abusive husband or you have somebody who’s an operative, a political operative, who’s going around and threatening people? you know i’m going to watch you vote you’re going to give me your vote to make sure that you vote who i tell you to there’s no secret ballot protection in a in mail-in ballots and there’s no protection from under pressure there’s no protection from you know you have that you can’t politic within so many feet of the polls we’ve all we all know that well That’s all gone when you don’t vote in person. If you make a mistake and spoil your ballot, that always happens, often happens. There’s nobody to help you. So it is time. The president is 100 percent right. And the main thing that he said is he’s going to start a movement. And I think that is the most important thing, because he will raise the issue and give us a chance to talk about all the problems, because all we’ve heard is from the left saying it’s great.
SPEAKER 06 :
Let me ask you this. The Constitution clearly gives each state the right to manage its own elections. So many right now are questioning what, if anything, the president can actually do through an executive order. So we’ve just got a little over a minute left. Lay that out for us. Can the president do what he’s proposing?
SPEAKER 24 :
I don’t think the president can order through executive order that we just get rid of, no excuse me, voting. But there’s a lot the president can do. And I think that starting the movement is important. But let’s just remember one thing. There are five federal statutes that really dictate how our federal elections are conducted. And what has happened for over 30 years is that federal government and Congress have really written the laws that govern the biggest part of our elections. It’s why we registered to vote at the driver’s license agency. The DMV is now, or the DDS in Georgia, is now the biggest precinct in America. So we must recognize that congress has broken our elections in a lot of ways and congress needs to fix it and that’s what the election integrity network by the way jody that’s what we’re working on is we’re going to publish the model policies we have the citizens elections bill of rights that calls for an end to universal absentee voting and mail voting and um So people can go to our website, www.electionintegritynetwork.org. But no, the president doesn’t have the power to wave a wand and fix everything. But what he has done is through his leadership and his public statements, it gives us the opportunity to move into that and say, okay, here’s how we do this. It’s got legislation to make it happen.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, starting the movement is huge. The voice of the people can be a magic wand. Cleta Mitchell, thank you so much for joining us, Election Integrity Network. We appreciate all you do. All right, friends, coming up, the world continues to watch the Russia-Ukraine war. And we’re going to talk about how China may tie into this.
SPEAKER 20 :
Family Research Council is committed to advancing faith, family, and freedom from the East Coast to the West. So FRC is going to Southern California for this year’s Pray, Vote, Stand Summit, October 17th and 18th at Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills. Join us for this powerful gathering of Christians desiring cultural renewal and spiritual revival. The Pray, Vote, Stand Summit brings together Christian leaders, issue experts, and government officials for a time of prayer, inspiration, and action. Together, we will seek God’s guidance for our nation and engage in meaningful discussions on the intersection of faith, government, and culture. If the spiritual foundations and the cultural walls of our nation are to be rebuilt, we all have a role to play. May we each find our place on the wall as we build for biblical truth. Register now at PrayVoteStand.org. That’s PrayVoteStand.org.
SPEAKER 08 :
Jennifer, it’s so exciting to be here with you today talking about our new book, Embracing God’s Design. Who is actually going to benefit from reading this book in your view?
SPEAKER 12 :
There’s so many different audiences that can benefit. The first one are counselors themselves, because we have some material in there where we really address the gender dysphoria diagnosis and what is wrong with it. We have information for people who are wanting to go back to embracing God’s design for their life.
SPEAKER 08 :
This is really magical to have the therapist and the individual who suffered come together and write about why this is happening and why we’re seeing this.
SPEAKER 12 :
And we brought all of that experience to the table. We want to see people walking in the fullness of who God has called them to be and not a false identity.
SPEAKER 07 :
Order today at embracethedesign.com.
SPEAKER 15 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
You’re tuned in to Washington Watch. Glad to have you. I’m Jody Heiss filling in today for Tony. All right, before we dive into this last segment, I want to once again encourage you to get more information and even go register for FRC’s upcoming PrayVoteStand Summit. It’s less than two months away, October 17th and 18th, Chino Hills, California. unquestionably, it will be one of the most powerful events you ever attend, I think, in your life. And there’s never been a more important time for an event such as this. So go check it out, PrayVoteStand.org. Get some more information and go ahead and register right now. We look forward to seeing you there in October. All right, we’ve been talking a lot about it from the top of the program and so many others are as well. Some encouraging developments over the past few days when it comes to the Russia-Ukraine war. And while many in the world are absolutely watching this extremely closely, There is no doubt that certain countries are taking notes and actually adjusting their plans that all of this unfolds. Most notably would be China, which for a long time has been having their eyes on Taiwan. So what might China and maybe other countries be taking away from what’s been happening with President Trump over the last few days? We’re here to discuss this and more is Gordon Chang. He’s a senior fellow at the Gatestone Institute. and author of Plan Red, China’s Project to Destroy America. And by the way, you can follow him on X at the handle at Gordon G. Chang. Gordon, always great to have you on Washington Watch. Thank you for joining us.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you so much, Jody.
SPEAKER 06 :
All right. Listen, before we get into China, which I definitely want to get into that, I want to just get your overall assessment as to what’s been unfolding the last few days with regard to Russia and Ukraine. What do you make of all that President Trump has been doing?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, President Trump has been moving at Trump speed. I mean, we have seen extraordinary developments occur so close to each other. So, for instance, on Friday, of course, you had our president in Alaska talking to Vladimir Putin. And then just over the weekend, he arranged and put together the meeting on Monday, which was extraordinary. Not only was there Zelensky, the president of Ukraine, but also you had the heads of the most important institutions and countries in Western Europe. And that’s really interesting because we haven’t seen that before. So things are moving fast. And I suppose we’ll see a trilateral meeting, Russia, China and Ukraine, in the very near future.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I think describing it at Trump speed is very, very just spot on how to describe it. But it is remarkable what’s going on. And within that context, Gordon, I wanted to get your thoughts on China. Of course, you’re such an expert on China, but there’s long been speculation about China’s intentions to invade Taiwan. So when you look at what’s happening now with Russia and Ukraine and Trump’s involvement with that, what do you think China is paying attention to right now as it watches what’s unfolding with this administration and Russia, Ukraine?
SPEAKER 05 :
There are two things. First of all, I think that the Chinese are looking at what an eventual settlement will be. And if Russia gets to keep Ukrainian territory, either annexing it or just merely controlling it, I think the Chinese are going to take away a very, very bad lesson, which is you can go and invade neighbors, break them apart, and then keep the parts, because the West will not exercise the vigor and determination necessary. So I really worry that we might be opening the door to conflict in East Asia. The second thing, and this is a problem as well, and that is President Trump, to his great credit, imposed the 25% additional tariff on India for buying Russian oil. That was August 6th. But China buys more Russian oil than India. And so far there’s been no additional tariff on China for doing that. And the Chinese are probably thinking that they are immune to pressure from the United States. We know that the Chinese have been telling everybody privately and sometimes openly that the United States is finished and that China runs the world now. And something like not imposing the 25 percent tariff on China only makes China’s case. So I hope that President Trump reverses that and actually imposes those costs on Beijing.
SPEAKER 06 :
Two very, very good points. So as we look at China and the points that you just laid out, how they are adjusting plans, probably based on what the Trump administration is doing right now, are there other countries as well? China certainly is the 800-pound gorilla, so to speak, in the room. But are other countries right now watching as well before they determine what their next move may be somewhere in the world?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I think both China and North Korea want this war to continue. North Korea wants it to continue because they are making a lot of money from this. They’ve been selling short-range ballistic missiles, artillery shells, and they’ve been providing soldiers. Up to 12,800 so far, plus another 30,000 perhaps in the works, along with additional combat engineers and regular workers. South Korean intelligence estimates that Russia pays North Korea $2,000 per month per soldier. Some people believe that figure is less, but the North Koreans, whatever that number is, making a lot of money. So I think the North Koreans want to see this war continue. And so do the Chinese. And that’s very clear because Wang Yi, the Chinese foreign minister, told Kayak Kallis, the EU foreign policy chief on July 2nd, that China does not want to see Russia lose because if Russia loses, then the U.S. will be able to focus on China in East Asia. And that means if the war ends, even with a Russian victory, the US will still be able to focus on China in East Asia. So I think the Chinese want to see this war continue and so did the North Koreans. And by the way, I should say the Iranians are probably in the same category because they sell drones and other stuff to Russia. So everybody’s making a lot of money off of this conflict.
SPEAKER 06 :
Very interesting. Moving back to China, within the context of what you were just talking about, many people may not be aware that China even right now has a role in this Russia war against Ukraine. Can you kind of take us down that path and describe for us more about China’s role with what’s happening there in Ukraine and Russia?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, China’s been providing all-in support. It green-lighted the invasion with that February 4, 2022 joint statement with Vladimir Putin about the all-no-limits partnership. And then you had, from the very beginning, China was providing military intelligence to the Russians, They were opening up their financial system to sanctioned Russian institutions. There’s been diplomatic support, propaganda support, the elevated commodity purchases, which we’ve just talked about. And also China has soldiers in Ukraine right now. There are perhaps as many as 200 mercenaries. Those mercenaries couldn’t have gotten to the Russian front without the approval of Beijing, but there are also formal People’s Liberation Army officers at the front as well. We assume that they’re just observers or advisors, but this is all in support, Jody. China is providing just about everything to Russia, and we have not imposed costs on China for doing that. We talk about it all the time, saying you can’t do this, you can’t do that, but we don’t do anything about it. So the Chinese just ignore us. And when they ignore us, that means our warnings to them on other things are probably going to be ignored. And that’s a very bad development.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, it really is. So what’s in this for China? Why are they so supportive of Russia? What are they getting back out of it? And why do they want Russia to invade Ukraine?
SPEAKER 05 :
There’s a lot of things going on here. One of them is, as Wang Yi said, he basically wants the US diverted. But we got to remember that Xi Jinping reveres Mao Zedong, the founder of the People’s Republic. And Mao talked about chaos. that chaos would eventually lead to worldwide Chinese rule. And I believe that Xi Jinping has been sowing chaos around the world. And it’s not just the war in Ukraine. It’s also the insurgencies in North Africa that look like wars. It’s backing Iran’s attack on Israel. China backs the Houthis, Hezbollah, and Hamas. So basically Beijing wants to disrupt the world because they believe that the destruction of society is are just way stations to Xi Jinping’s basically direct rule of all of the world. And by the way, Jody, the Chinese not only talk about the whole world should be ruled by China, but they’re now talking about the moon and Mars as sovereign Chinese territory. So we’re talking about the most ambitious aggressor in history. So this is not just about Ukraine.
SPEAKER 06 :
this is about the united states because the chinese think of the united states as at best at best a mere colony of china wow so that’s that that’s fascinating when you look at it from from that perspective uh let me let me ask you this i want i wanted to switch gears but based on what you just said you have been on here before talking about really the vulnerability of the chinese economy right now how serious is that and i would think as serious as it seems to be that sanctions if we were to take some of the moves that you suggest we probably ought to take against china that really could be devastating yes well china claims 5.2 gdp growth in the second quarter of this year
SPEAKER 05 :
I think, and we don’t know, Jody, but I think there’s probably about zero. Maybe a little bit above, maybe a little bit below. But we’re seeing some very distressing signs from the Chinese economy. Two things. Price data. it shows that China’s in a deflationary spiral already and has been for quite some time. And a deflationary spiral is extremely difficult to get out of, especially because Xi Jinping doesn’t want to do those things that are absolutely necessary to get out of that deflationary spiral. The other thing, and this comes from last month, we saw a precipitous drop in bank lending. The reason why this is important is because it tells us the Chinese enterprises don’t want to borrow. They don’t want to borrow because they don’t see a future. And that means the Chinese economy is headed downward. You know, these Chinese banks, these Chinese enterprises, they’re all controlled by the Chinese central government and ultimately the Communist Party. And yet the party in this dictatorial one party state can’t force them to do what the party wants, which is a real indication that the Chinese economy has slipped beyond the control of the Chinese leadership.
SPEAKER 06 :
So that really brings us into what some could probably justifiably describe as yet another war, and that would be the trade war between China and the United States. And you’ve alluded significantly about that. What’s your assessment as to how that is unfolding and where it needs to go in the future?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, we’re in this 90 day pause that lasts through the beginning of November, November 9th, where we and China do not impose tariffs, which are elevated above 100 percent. Right now, this is normally it would benefit China because China would have more time to basically steal our intellectual property and also to engage in predatory trade practices. Also, China benefits because this is the Halloween and Christmas season that they get through. But this time, I think delay sort of helps the United States. And the reason is that President Trump has been putting together these framework trade agreements with all sorts of countries. UK, EU, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea. And that is redirecting trade away from China. So the longer that this process goes on, the better it is for the United States in general. I’d like to see more robust action on the part of President Trump. I think this is the time that we start really defending our economy. I don’t think we should be selling sophisticated computer chips to China, which the Trump administration is now doing. But all in all, I think this is going in the right direction.
SPEAKER 06 :
So what kind of predictions would you have looking ahead for China throughout the remainder of the Trump administration in particular? What do we look for the next three years?
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh my gosh, what a question. I think that we basically look at the Chinese economy because the economy is deteriorating and the regime is not doing the right things to rescue itself. This is going to cause more trade friction because basically Xi Jinping’s only remedy right now is to export more to the world. And the world just can’t absorb these Chinese goods. We’re also seeing hints of real instability at the top of the Chinese regime. There’s a lot of disagreement among people who closely follow this, but I think that Xi Jinping has lost a lot of influence and maybe even control over the Chinese military, and he’s lost some influence over China’s civilian leadership. As I mentioned, there are other people who don’t think that, but we are seeing signs that are not compatible with a stable regime. So I’m looking for what’s going on inside Beijing. And it’s very difficult to do that because the regime is opaque. But if you don’t have a stable regime, then all bets are off, Jody. All bets are off.
SPEAKER 06 :
So you seem to be suggesting, and we don’t have time to get into this very much, but you seem to be suggesting at least the possibility of a regime change over the next few years?
SPEAKER 05 :
Easily possible. Or we could see, if there isn’t regime change, if there isn’t a change in the nature of the political system, we could see a change in the people who run the Communist Party’s system. So I think that all scenarios are possible right now. And that means it makes it very difficult for the rest of the world to deal with China, but it also makes it very difficult for China to deal constructively with the rest of the world. Because when leaders fight with each other, when everything is on the line, they can’t deal with us in a way that we expect.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, there are so many things happening all around the world. And I know, Gordon, whenever China is in the mix, you’re like the first person that comes to mind. We’ve got to talk to Gordon about this. I want to thank you so much for bringing to us your expertise as to what’s happening specifically with China around the world. Gordon Chang, Senior Fellow, Gatestone Institute. As always, we’re honored to have you here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I’m honored to talk to you, Jody, so thank you very much.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, you’re very welcome. All right, friends, that wraps up yet another edition of Washington Watch. Hope you have a fantastic rest of your evening. We’ll be back with you again tomorrow, same time, right here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 03 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family, and freedom, visit TonyBergens.com.
