SPEAKER 06 : 0:00

Welcome to It Takes Energy, presented by Energy Transfer, where we talk all things oil and natural gas. Oil and gas drive our economy, ensure our country’s security, and open pathways to brighter futures. When it comes to meeting the world’s energy needs, more is better. What we mean is our world needs a wide range of energy sources to meet our increasing needs. Just wind or solar won’t get us there, as the sun doesn’t always shine and the wind doesn’t always blow. With our growing population and the increasing use of energy-demanding technologies like AI, reliability is key. And the reliability of natural gas is unmatched by wind and solar. That doesn’t mean we all can’t work together, but natural gas is vital to ensuring we meet our energy needs. Look around, and you’ll see the essential role oil and gas plays in our lives. Our world needs oil and gas, and people rely on us to deliver it. To learn more, visit energytransfer.com.

SPEAKER 02 : 1:00

Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here’s Angie.

SPEAKER 05 : 1:08

Hey there friend, Angie Austin here with the Good News. Today we are speaking with one of the authors of Living with Purpose in a Polarizing World, Al Erisman, and he also wrote the book with Randy Pope. Welcome, Al. Thank you. Nice to be here. So give us kind of a nutshell version of what Living with Purpose in a Polarizing World is all about.

SPEAKER 03 : 1:31

Okay. Today, of course, everyone knows that we are in a lot of conflict, both within the church and within the church against the The culture wars are raging away. And the question really is, how should Christians respond in a world that is coming apart, as it may seem? And what I have observed, Randy and I have talked about this a lot, what we’ve observed is we’ve seen a lot of Christians that have withdrawn and kind of are hunkering down. We’ve seen some caught in fear, some in anger, and some seeking power. And the question is, what does the Scripture call on us to do? And so what we’ve observed is that the Bible is filled with narratives of people who lived in their own polarizing society, and what did they do? And the words of Micah are the ones that echo to us, what does the Lord require of us but to seek justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with our God? And so the call for humility and the way we interact with society and with other Christians, the idea of listening, the idea of representing Christ well and demonstrating his love to the world is something that we are called on, and many have walked that way before.

SPEAKER 05 : 3:00

Now, in terms of, you know, our culture right now, I see, having been in the news business now, I guess probably around 30 years, just so many articles about culture and how the culture doesn’t necessarily align with our faith. I mean, in some ways, we’re seen sometimes as, you know, weird or off or old-fashioned, you know, out of touch, too conservative, not forward-thinking enough, etc. So… Is that something that many Christians are feeling under siege by their culture? And how do we respond to this new normal, per se? I mean, it’s not my normal, probably not your normal, but it’s other people’s normal.

SPEAKER 03 : 3:44

Right. So the words of the writer to Hebrews, reflecting on the Old Testament narratives from Hebrews 11, the faith chapter, in Hebrews 12, 1, it says, “…seeing that you’re surrounded…” by a great cloud of witnesses, let us set aside the weight that easily besets us and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us looking to Jesus. And so what we see in that is, first of all, let’s start with ourselves. It’s pretty easy to see the sin out there. It’s harder to see it in here. And so let’s start with ourselves as the writer to Hebrews instructs. But then let’s say, how do I demonstrate respect even in a very broken world? And look at Daniel. He, for example, was dragged away from his homeland. He was in captivity. He was being trained in all of what the Babylonian society was all about. And yet he demonstrated respect toward others even at the very beginning. So there’s this one story in Daniel chapter one where he was being, his name was changed. He was being, I guess you would say, indoctrinated with the society of those around him. And he wanted to take a stand on not eating meat from the king’s table. He did it very carefully by talking with the person in charge. And he said, I know it’s your head if we don’t turn out well. So how about this? Could we try it our way for a period of time? And if that doesn’t work, we will do it your way. Demonstrating respect and empathy toward the other rather than anger or fear. And I think that’s a model for us. And we see that with Esther and with Ruth and with Moses and with Joseph and with Job, etc., all the way through the scripture of people that interacted in that way.

SPEAKER 05 : 6:07

Now, I know, Allie, you talk about the five common responses we use to navigate a complex world today. Is this the way we should do it or the way we shouldn’t do it?

SPEAKER 03 : 6:19

I would argue that it’s the way we should not do it. It’s not the characteristic of any of the narratives of Scripture. I don’t imagine, I think it’s hard to picture Jesus picketing the Roman Empire and the occupiers and the brokenness. But what he did is he met with people, he demonstrated love to them, he communicated to them, and he set them on a new path of following him. And we are called to be disciples as he discipled those that were with him. So I think we have to look carefully at the way in which Jesus and others navigated the world they were in and ask ourselves, what is that call for us to do? Over and over again, Jesus would say, and the scripture is filled with this message, fear not. Why are we afraid. We have been, not by accident, placed in the 21st century at a time when the world seems to be coming apart. How do we demonstrate who God is to a world that is watching and wondering how we are going to respond?

SPEAKER 05 : 7:43

So I would love to know, and I know your background is so impressive, what you’ve done. My brother worked for Boeing, and he went to West Point Military Academy. So I know how brainy you have to be. And I know you were the director of technology at Boeing for 32 years. And you’re teaching. You are a past director for the Center for Integrity and the School of Business, Government, and Economics at Seattle Pacific University. I mean, I could go on. It’d take me five minutes to read your bio, basically. So- I just, for the average man or woman like myself, you’re saying that these five ways we shouldn’t navigate. Can you tell me some of the ways we shouldn’t navigate the world as Christians the way it is now because it’s so counter to many of our beliefs? And maybe tell us how we should be navigating the world. I know you give some examples, you know, about Joseph, for instance, and some others. So what should we be doing and what shouldn’t we be doing?

SPEAKER 03 : 8:42

So I would encourage us to listen more and talk less. Oh, I like that. I would encourage us to ask questions. Sometimes when we make assumptions about people, we don’t really listen to what they are saying. True. I love the dialogue that Jesus had with the woman at the well in John chapter 4. You know, he was talking with her about living water. and about an opportunity for her. And partway through the discussion, he said, why don’t you go call your husband? And she said, I don’t have a husband. Now Jesus knew all about her life. And he said, you know, you’ve spoken correctly because you’ve had five husbands and the guy you’re now living with is not your husband. So what you’ve said is true. And then she changed the subject. She started talking about where you ought to worship. And I imagine a modern person in this situation saying, wait a minute. Now we were talking about your moral depravity. Don’t change the subject on me. And Jesus rolled with it. And he listened to her and he spoke into her need and he transformed not only her life, but all of the people in that village. And then you think about Matthew five, where Jesus is talking, uh, sharing the beatitudes. And at the end, he says, let your light so shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Not that they’ll see your anger, that they’ll see your fear, or that they’ll see you seeking power to dominate them, but rather that you’ve listened to them, you’ve cared for them, and you’re making a difference in your community. And I think That this is the model that Christ has put in front of us and calls us to live out before him.

SPEAKER 05 : 10:48

I love that scripture. I just think there isn’t to me a more beautiful scripture than that in a simplified call of what we are to do as Christians. And I tend to be a non-judgmental Christian and really not ever telling people how they should live or feeling like there’s any judgment from me on how they’re living. And so I think I do put, you know, letting my light shine and glorifying the Lord in heaven as best I can, you know. What else do you want us to take away from the book, Al?

SPEAKER 03 : 11:19

Well, I think if you – Dallas Willard, in a book he wrote long ago called Hearing God, he said that as we come to the narratives of Scripture, rather than reading them just as stories, we ought to read them and try and enter into their life and ask the question, how would I have responded had I been in that position? because they were human as well. So you think about Joseph, for example. He was falsely accused and in prison for 13 years in a foreign land, and he gets called out before Pharaoh. And he doesn’t start by saying, you know, I’m in a bad position. You help me, I’ll help you. Rather, he says, what is it that I can help you with? And when Pharaoh says, I hear you can interpret dreams, He doesn’t say, you bet, bring it on. He says, I can’t do it, but God can. Tell me your dream. And so the idea of listening, representing God, and not making it about my own grievances seems to me to characterize death. so many of these people. And I could talk about Ruth and Esther and Job and Moses and, you know, you just go on and on as you read these stories and you see, wow, what they did is they represented their God in a way that is a model for us. And then Hebrews 12, 1 invites us to follow that model and to pursue God in our own world.

SPEAKER 05 : 13:00

now so many different you mentioned you know we’ve got joseph and joshua ruth esther daniel any um come on we all have our favorites right i mean i always tell my kids you’re my favorite today but you certainly weren’t yesterday let’s see who’s going to be the favorite tomorrow you know because you know sometimes it just varies on their behavior right who can be the favorite so um any favorites in there we’ve got a couple minutes left

SPEAKER 03 : 13:25

Yeah, I actually wrote a whole book on Joseph. I call it The Accidental Executive. I love it. And how he navigated that world. But I’ve studied the story of Esther for a long time, and Esther was in a really awkward position, taking over as queen, kind of morally compromised in the position where she was. And yet, the reminder from her uncle came to her when he said to her, who knows, but what you are in this place for such a time as this. And I think of ourselves being in the 21st century in a world that isn’t very comfortable right now and say, maybe this is the message for us. Who knows, but we’re in this place for such a time as this.

SPEAKER 05 : 14:20

I love that. If you’re listening and you would like to get in touch or find the book, Living with Purpose in a Polarizing World by Al Erisman and Randy Pope, we’re speaking with Al Erisman. Al, what’s a good website for people to find you?

SPEAKER 03 : 14:36

So we have a website that focuses on this particular book. It’s on Facebook. And if you do a search on Facebook for Living with Purpose in a Polarizing World, you’ll find it. Randy and I will be making comments there, interacting with people there, and I think that’s probably the best place to connect.

SPEAKER 05 : 15:00

I love it. Thank you, Al Erisman.

SPEAKER 03 : 15:02

Nice to talk with you. Thank you.

SPEAKER 05 : 15:03

Nice speaking with you.

SPEAKER 01 : 15:09

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SPEAKER 05 : 16:07

Hey, welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin and Grace Fox joining us to talk about her devotional book, Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. And the devotion for today, I love this one, Not Alone. Hello there, Grace Fox.

SPEAKER 04 : 16:24

Hi, Angie. Good to talk to you again.

SPEAKER 05 : 16:26

I have to say, you’re rarely alone because almost every time I talk to you, you’ve returned from a trip, you’re on a trip, or you’re going on a trip to help or visit one of your four children and your many grandchildren.

SPEAKER 04 : 16:38

That’s right. Yeah, we were just gone for the weekend down into Washington State to visit our oldest daughter for a few days. So that was fun.

SPEAKER 05 : 16:46

And for people that don’t know Grace, she lives on a boat in Vancouver, British Columbia, with her husband. So when she comes down to Washington, she’s coming out of Canada, coming to the States to visit. And I know you’ve been helping out one of your daughters who has four kids. So I know that really keeps you on your toes, doesn’t it?

SPEAKER 04 : 17:05

That’s right. It does. Actually, she’s got three. Oh, that one’s got three. She’s hiding one that I don’t know about.

SPEAKER 05 : 17:10

That’s right. You have four kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER 04 : 17:14

Well, I have three unless there’s one hiding somewhere. Wait, why am I thinking four?

SPEAKER 05 : 17:18

Well, I’m from a family of four. There you go. All right. So my son just graduated over kind of the holiday weekend at the end of last week. And then my daughter went to prom. So I just sent you some photos. So a lot going on here. We had grandparents in and my brother came in and my mom’s been staying with us. My in-laws came in. And it was interesting because the graduation, one of the local schools has about a thousand kids. Ours has close to 700 in the graduating class. And it’s interesting because they come in from four corners. So they’re all seated and it’s so complicated. They announce the names and they have the camera on the kid. And then the kid does something like… waves or makes a heart shape or does something right and so they’re literally coming in from four sides and so they must have two cameramen and because they go quickly from shot to shot of each kid and they get there like three seconds to make their little gesture that’s normally very loving and light-hearted or they point up to God a lot of people you know pointed up to God per se and but one kid I just thought I’d throw this out there to you because it’s one of those things that I think you regret later but you think you’re so cool So they announced this kid and think we’re in a huge auditorium. So there’s probably like each kid got 10 tickets. So, you know, and then all the administrators and security in the city. So just shy probably of 10,000 people. All right. So then the kid, as you can imagine, if I’m going to say something, it wasn’t so great. He held up his middle finger to the camera and then the entire auditorium went, oh, like that. And then somebody thought, oh, it’s just a whim. You know, he probably regretted it right afterwards. I said, oh, no, he didn’t. then he was slipping off the teachers, the principal, everybody in the stands, kids in like his rows. And you could tell he thought he was like really funny and super cool. And then he got a, you know, of course, everybody, you know, sends, my son had like a copy of it from another kid that sent him the video. So then he puts it on, you know, on Instagram, on social media. And then he’s like, TikTok famous or Instagram famous and then of course he didn’t get his diploma because he has to perform some sort of whatever to get it back you know to do something community service or I don’t know something at the school to actually get his diploma but then you know that lives forever right I mean that’s forever on the internet forever for his employers to find or whatever right

SPEAKER 04 : 19:49

That’s a sad commentary. That is definitely something that you’ll regret later. Hopefully, hopefully you’ll regret it.

SPEAKER 05 : 19:55

Yes. I remember one of my colleagues speaking of regretting things. Just one quick aside. He went into a big meeting to tell off, you know, the boss in front of everybody and used a few choice words as they say, or as my mom says, excuse my French. You know, when she’s talking in a salty manner is because she knows I don’t like it. So anyway, then, you know, he did a big, you know, show in front of all the colleagues and the boss and blah, blah, blah. Well, then we talked to him about a month later because, oh, he was cool and everybody was like, oh. oh, man, I wish I had the guts to do that. You told that guy off. You really got the best of him. Ha ha. But then a month later, when he was looking for work, you know, of course, it got around the news business. And it wasn’t quite as funny since he had two kids and a wife to support.

SPEAKER 04 : 20:41

Yeah, definitely. I don’t know how the human mind thinks sometimes, right? You just do something that seems so creative or funny or whatever in the moment. But later we just regret.

SPEAKER 05 : 20:57

Even when I would tell you, Grace, I don’t know how many big companies you’ve worked for, but even when they do the like exit interview, I could be the most unhappy, you know, employee on the face of the earth. And I’d be like, oh, I enjoyed my time here. You know, and then when you go to the new job, how was your last job? Oh, it was great. You know, because I told my son, I’m like, do not. He just got a job. I said, do not speak poorly about your last place of work. And then the last one was, oh, the anonymous survey. So I laughed the other day so hard because it was one of those, of course, TikTok videos or Instagram. And it showed an employee being removed by security. And it said, this happened five minutes after I did my anonymous survey at work. I mean, it’s obviously a joke, but they say those things are anonymous. And, you know, come on, you know, I never believe those in class or whatever, that they’re anonymous. There’s some way that they can figure out who’s saying what, right?

SPEAKER 04 : 21:55

Oh, yeah. Well, you know, the Bible says be as harmless. How does that go? Be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. I like that. That’s a good thing to embrace. Yeah, a good attitude to embrace is a girl to like.

SPEAKER 05 : 22:08

I like that. All right, so let’s do our devotion. Not Alone, what is this one about?

SPEAKER 04 : 22:15

Okay, so this one came about because early on in my career as a nonprofit co-director, I had to travel to Poland by myself. And I had not done a lot of international travel alone at that point. And so I had to go speak at a women’s retreat and then go meet my husband in another city. And then we would do ministry together from that point on. But that was an eight-hour train ride. And so I remember just thinking, ah, you know, you get into train stations over there. And sometimes they will change up the train station. schedule at the last minute or the track that the train is coming in on. And so there might be eight tracks. Sometimes you might have to go up and over a couple of tracks, like a little overpass, you know, pedestrian overpass to get to the correct platform. And if those announcements come and they sound muffled, like think going through a drive-thru at a McDonald’s or something, and sometimes the voice of the person taking your order sounds like they’re speaking through a discourse. Yes, yes. And so magnify that, and then put it in a foreign language on top of that. So now you’re in a train station, you don’t speak the language, and somebody gives an announcement of something being changed in a foreign language that sounds like they’re speaking with a discourse stuffed in their mouth. Yes. So I was just quite nervous about that. How am I going to know if my train is changed up at the last second when I just can’t understand anything? Oh, I’d be nervous too. Oh, it was nervous. Even traveling with my husband or with other people, it’s like, ah, just kind of watch what the locals do. And if they run, all of a sudden you run. And hopefully you’re running for the same train.

SPEAKER 01 : 24:04

Oh, that’s funny.

SPEAKER 04 : 24:05

But I remember just thinking, To my mom, I said, I’m going to be doing this by myself. And she was naturally a worrier. And she just said, oh, I wish she didn’t have to travel alone. And then I thought about that, and I thought, you know, I’m not alone, am I? The reality is, I’m not alone. It physically looks like I’m by myself, but I’m not. Because if I believe what I say I believe, then God is with me. And I can rely on his presence with me to help me get to where I need to be going. And it’s going to be okay. And I had to start walking out the truth of what I say I believe. It was quite an experience to do that. And it was like being thrown into the deep end. And, you know, tread water. Just get with it. Tread water. You’re not going to drown. You’re going to be okay.

SPEAKER 05 : 24:59

So how did it go?

SPEAKER 04 : 25:01

it went okay. I ended up having, I remember traveling and having a very meaningful discussion with a man that shared the booth that I was assigned to. He could speak a measure of English. He was a very well-educated man and he wanted to know why I was going to that particular city because tourists didn’t go there. And I said, I’m not a tourist. I’m not going to Warsaw. I just explained what I was doing and that I was going to be meeting my husband. We were going to be teaching some classes in a local university in conjunction with social services and doing some classes on parenting and classes on marriage. And he was very interested. We had a great conversation. And in the end, I did get to where I needed to be. And it was good. It doesn’t mean that my heart didn’t beat a few times when I had to change trains. But I just had to say, God, help me. You’ve got to help me, Lord. Just direct me to the right place. And he did. He did. It was okay.

SPEAKER 05 : 26:03

I like, you know, in your devotions, when you kind of ask us to ponder things, it says, what lies in your imagination telling you about the road you’re traveling and worries? And I think, you know, with having three teenagers, I, you know, of course, have a little bit of that myself. One of them’s challenged with ADHD. And So grades aren’t always the greatest. So we’re trying to get them to the point where she could get into a college. And I can’t even tell you how close her GPA is to being admitted to a few colleges that are interested in her for, you know, for a volleyball scholarship. But she actually went down a little bit the last semester because a C is a 2.0. So you get too many C’s and your GPA is coming down. And so to make a long story short, like I’m fine with a C, but she has to have a certain level, a BC average. It has to be solid. I mean, even 2.5 or 2.75 is the lowest to get into many universities. And as you know, the competitive ones, you’re not even getting in above a 3.0 unless you’re, you know, in fact, they had, I think it was almost 15 valedictorians in my son’s class, which my brother is like, what on earth? And it’s like, well, they all had… All A’s, none of them ever had a B. And so then how do you pick from those kids, right? So they kind of took terms. Yeah, that’s probably why it took two hours. They gave them each a turn to speak at different times in the presentation, not necessarily one long stand up their speech, but little bits of info. So they got like mini speeches. Anyway, a lot of those kids were going to where I went, University of Colorado in Boulder, which is where I spent most of my childhood. So it wasn’t a big deal, I thought, for me to go there. I didn’t even know it was considered a good university. It was just the one my dad went to, that my grandma went to, that my son wants to go to. But he didn’t initially get accepted. Their average, you know, a lot of their kids have a 4.0 or above that are applying there. And I don’t know if you know about this new app. It’s called the Common App. I didn’t know about it until this year. So some kids might apply to like 200 schools. You know, it’s just like unbelievable the number of schools that they’ll apply to because this app can be used for multiple applications. It’s not like when you and I went and you had to, you know, fill out the paper and do each essay and, you know, mail it in. And it’s so different now, but… Yeah, it’s the pressure on these kids to excel academically. Then my brother said, well, it must be easier now for that many kids to have straight A’s. But I’m like, well, I don’t know if it’s necessarily easier. But anyway, it’s a very worrisome world for a mom. Let’s put it that way. So this is a good devotion for me.

SPEAKER 04 : 28:39

It is a worrisome world for a mom. And it’s hard whether you’re a mom of a kindergarten and you’re sending your child off to kindergarten for the first day or whatever. middle school or high school or off to university when they actually leave home. It’s a hard thing to do, and we can be scared for them. But we have to remember that they’re not alone. God goes with them. And as we raise them to know Jesus and to love his word, we’ve just got to trust that God’s got them in his hands.

SPEAKER 05 : 29:10

I love that. I love that. All right. So again, Grace Fox, she joins us pretty much every week. And the book we’re working on right now, Fresh Hope for Today, Devotions for Joy on the Journey. And if you want to find Grace, you can go to gracefox.com. Thank you, Grace. Always a blessing to have you on the program.

SPEAKER 04 : 29:30

All right. We’ll talk to you again.

SPEAKER 02 : 29:31

Talk to you soon.

SPEAKER 06 : 29:33

thank you for listening to the good news with angie austin on am670 kltt welcome to it takes energy presented by energy transfer where we talk all things oil and natural gas oil and gas drive our economy ensure our country’s security and open pathways to brighter futures When it comes to meeting the world’s energy needs, more is better. What we mean is our world needs a wide range of energy sources to meet our increasing needs. Just wind or solar won’t get us there, as the sun doesn’t always shine and the wind doesn’t always blow. With our growing population and the increasing use of energy-demanding technologies like AI, reliability is key. And the reliability of natural gas is unmatched by wind and solar. That doesn’t mean we all can’t work together, but natural gas is vital to ensuring we meet our energy needs. Look around, and you’ll see the essential role oil and gas plays in our lives. Our world needs oil and gas, and people rely on us to deliver it. To learn more, visit energytransfer.com.