SPEAKER 04 : 0:00

Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here’s Angie.

SPEAKER 03 : 0:09

Hey there, friend. Angie Austin with The Good News. Please welcome back an author and a doctor, Lina Abu-Jamra. Her book is Still Standing, Following Jesus Even When It Hurts. Welcome back, Lina. So good to be back on with you. Well, I had a nice time interviewing you before, so I thought this will, you know, you’re a great interview. So tell everybody about, you know, your work as a pediatric ER doctor and your work as an author, just a little bit about you.

SPEAKER 01 : 0:35

I’d love to. I practice pediatric emergency medicine for years. about 16 years, and phased out into telehealth. I now am a full-time telemedicine provider. Oh, cool. Which does basically acute care of all ages now. I see people of all ages. And I did that primarily because I started an organization called Living with Power Ministries back in the year maybe 2009-ish. And really, honestly, started the organization by faith. I felt called to teach the Bible at one point during my fellowship, so back in the year 2000. The Lord called me to do that. And I was teaching the Bible and was very heavily involved in my church at the time. And I think I was right about when I became a woman’s ministry director. I still hadn’t written any books, but saw that God would move me in that direction, started a nonprofit and hoping that even as a doctor, sort of thinking how to best steward what God has put in my life and given me. And that led, eventually I started writing books. And so I started with Moody back in 2013. And I initially wrote a book on singleness and sort of grew up from that. And of course, part of my story, and I believe maybe the last time I came to talk with you was about Fractured Faith. So I ended up leaving the church in what ended up being a very sad situation where The main pastor was disqualified as a pastor, but it caused a lot of hurt in our community, a lot of church hurt and deconstruction and all the things that go along with that. So I reeled from that between 2013 and the time when I wrote the book and Fractured Faith. And then since that time, the Lord has been just really working on helping me stand strong. And I find myself now in a kind of a fresh place with the Lord and excited about all that he does in people, despite the curves and detours and ways that we don’t see coming, but end up, you know, happening in the Christian life. And so the Lord is good. He is worth following even when it hurts. And so this is where we are today.

SPEAKER 03 : 2:28

Oh, I like that message. Now with your living with power ministries, you started off wanting to teach the Bible. What do you do now with living with power?

SPEAKER 01 : 2:38

Great question. I still, of course, do a lot of writing, Bible teaching. I have a couple of Bible studies that came out recently with David C. Cook. I speak regularly if anyone’s listening, and they may have heard me or may be interested in getting us to your church. We’d love to do that. But all of the work really is that we do here locally in the United States. is really meant to support what we’re doing globally. And so I grew up in Beirut, Lebanon, moved to the United States, to Green Bay, Wisconsin, of all places, when I was a senior in high school.

SPEAKER 03 : 3:06

Oh, wow, as a senior? Right?

SPEAKER 01 : 3:09

Oh, wow. Yeah, kind of a crazy time. And kind of really is probably… Probably spent a lot of hours in therapy reeling from some of that shock that probably I didn’t recognize when it happened. You know, just how to fit in into new communities and ways. But long and short of it, I went back to do work with Syrian refugees in my home country, Lebanon. in 2015, shortly after I left that church situation and was sort of asking God, like, God, is my ministry over? What am I going to do now? And out of that sense of failure and disappointment, God birthed the work we’re doing in Lebanon now. In fact, now we have a Living With Power chapter with a country director in Lebanon. And so we do a lot of work there. I started off doing medical mission trips four times a year right off the ground, and then that fades into now we run a pharmacy full-time. We give people meds, 300 people a week we give meds to based out of a partner church ministry. And then we have a community center actually in the Baalbeck area where a lot of the – it’s actually a very heavily Hezbollah area, and we have a community center where we’re teaching kids A lot of different things related to school, but also summer camp, Bible camp, DBS type stuff. And then also we have a lot of work we do with women and just seeing God really plant seeds through that ministry. And then we do a lot of other projects in the Lebanon area. A lot with women and education and health awareness as a means to open their eyes to the goodness of God and how they’re created in His image. And so we really believe in hope, and we believe the message of Jesus is the only message of hope. And so we spread it here in the United States through a lot of focused Bible study and discipleship, but then globally by reaching people who have never heard of Jesus in many instances, but have been radically changed by the message of love and hope.

SPEAKER 03 : 4:59

Oh, Living With Power Ministries, livingwithpower.org. Dr. Girl, you are busy. No wonder you moved to telehealth because now you can work anywhere you want in the world.

SPEAKER 01 : 5:08

Well, that’s exactly, that is what motivated the move. Honestly, I was very happy in the ER. I fit into the ER well. I love patient care, but the Lord really gave me an option. No one had heard of telehealth back in 2016. My mom freaked out when I was going to make that move. She thought I was losing my – she thought I was going to have to move back home.

SPEAKER 03 : 5:25

She thought you were going to be a fake doctor on the phone.

SPEAKER 01 : 5:28

Yeah. She said, what is that? And now everyone’s like jealous of me. But honestly, it was a step of faith. And the Lord, of course, with COVID now, everybody uses telehealth now. But honestly, I was even thinking as I was telling some folks about Lebanon, even when any time y’all buy, like right now, Lebanon’s in the news. And of course, the big thing incident that happened yesterday, and everyone’s been sitting on their edge of their seat in Lebanon, even in our ministry, asking us to pray regularly, because we don’t know what’s going to happen between Israel and Hezbollah. And really, the Lebanese people are, by and large, the average Lebanese has nothing to do with that. They’re just happen to live in a place that a terrorist group has, you know, basically taken over. So it’s sort of a weird dynamic. But in it, you know, just realize that when you buy a book in our ministry, I mean, one of the reasons I love talking about what we’re doing there is because all of the genuinely all of the proceeds in our ministry goes towards the work we’re doing overseas. For a couple of years, we’ve been helping Ukraine. We’re just now phasing out of that. Really, our goal isn’t to be political. It’s to help people in areas that desperately need the Lord. And it so happens that those are areas of war where there’s a lot of political angst and issues and opinions. But ultimately, yeah, we love the work that God has allowed us. You know, my group is small. We have a very lean organization. I still work full time. But by God’s grace, we’ve been able to do a lot for his kingdom. And honestly, it’s not because of us. It’s because God does that all the time. He takes the little that we offer and he turns it into more.

SPEAKER 03 : 6:50

Wow, I am so impressed. I mean, we’re going to talk about the book, of course, but your ministry is doing so many great things. And just the way you said that small little thing about the people of Lebanon and how there are these people that aren’t even interested or involved in the war, and they’re kind of just like pawns in what other people are doing. And I remember when something went down, and we’ll go into all the details, but Like the decision makers were in other countries making decisions that would harm the people in Lebanon. So they’re in other countries going, oh, let’s do this horrible thing. And then who’s going to reap the repercussions? You know, the people, the average people that have nothing to do with some of these decisions. It’s just so sad to me. Oh. And I don’t have the grasp on it, of course, that you do, but how wonderful that you’ve got all these kids and you’re able to do Bible camps, et cetera, and work with women, two groups that are obviously victimized in these settings where men are in power oftentimes making decisions that hurt the women and the children. So thank you for all you’re doing. And I want to talk, too, about your book, the new book, Still Standing, Following Jesus Even When It Hurts. So give us an overview of that.

SPEAKER 01 : 8:02

Well, it boils down to what has become, I think, my message in my ministry, which is that life is full of disappointment. Life isn’t what you expect it to be. You set off following Jesus with one plan in mind, and I can guarantee you that that plan will blow up in a million little pieces. But just when you think it’s all… lost cause and wondering what in the world you got yourself into, the Lord comes in and draws you to himself. I really genuinely believe that God uses the pain and suffering that we experience in any way, whether it’s small ways, my own personal life, disappointments, to big ways where we watch, you know, like what we were just talking about in Lebanon. I think God uses those painful experiences to purify us, to grow us. But mostly, I really think that to help us understand what it means to have an intimate, close walk with which is the very place that we find our greatest and deepest joy and satisfaction. And so I love talking about that, that how God’s love is the power that propels us in our Christian life.

SPEAKER 03 : 8:58

All right. So let’s talk a little bit about, you know, you obviously took God’s prompting to start your ministry and to write these books and to leave, you know, the ER and then to go to telehealth, which I, by the way, I can just see like an old school mom, like your mom, just completely nuts. Like, are you kidding me? You’re like leaving your career to talk to people over the computer. I just, it makes me giggle because I can imagine the initial response. So you talk in the book about God making us wait for answers. So let’s talk about that. What are the reasons for it? How do we do it? Because I think we go into what you call the deception of self-sufficiency. We’re like, well, I’m not waiting for God because I got this. I got this.

SPEAKER 01 : 9:39

Well, classic Abraham, right? I mean, God calls Abraham. He’s so pumped about life and all that God’s going to do. He promised him he’s going to have kids. They want kids. They can’t have kids. And so the minute they hit the famine, I mean, really in the same chapter where God calls Abraham, the famine hits and he goes to Egypt to find help, right? It’s like, wait, wait, wait, wait. But then later, of course, the big move where Sarah and Abraham hit. Try to, you know, get Hagar involved. And this is exactly what we do in life. And we hit the season of waiting and we’ll give God a chance. We don’t automatically go to plan B. Right. We’re good Christians. So we first we pray. We do the three things that we told the church that we should do. But if a week goes into a month, into a year, man, you know, so many people leave the faith. You know, you could argue, were they really ever Christians? Were they in it for personal gain? Many who don’t leave the faith but become deeply disillusioned and hurt. How could God do this to me? Where is God in this? Why isn’t God showing up? I thought if I prayed, he would show up. And of course, as we know from the story of Abraham, God was never far away. And God did use, by the way, all of that story for good. Like, I see that. But man, there was a lot of pain in the process. And Of course, Hagar in the wilderness, such a sad story when she’s thrown out, and all of the mess that happened. And by the way, many think the problems in the Middle East that we’re dealing with today probably stem from those days. Who knows? I think there’s certainly some connection there. But I think, again, I think the waiting is probably one of the most challenging spaces for Christians. And I think that is the space that God really says, hey, this is where we’re going to learn to trust me. And so it never ends. I think I used to think when I was in my 20s and in my teens that, yeah, waiting is part of it, but eventually we’ll stop waiting. We’ll learn that lesson and move on. But this is not a lesson that’s one and done. This is a lesson that’s deeper and deeper. so that we get to the depth and more and more understanding of this dependence on God that God is longing to help us live by, which is just, again, the space of our comfort and hope.

SPEAKER 03 : 11:35

I love that. Now, in terms of trying to please others, you talk about that in the book. And one of the questions that I was thinking about is, you know, why is our persistence or our desire to try to please others something that breaks God’s heart? And I think about this a lot, Lena, because I’ve got three teenagers here. And they’re pretty good. It’s funny because they have five Bible studies or youth groups or a fellowship of Christian athletes a week. And there’s another Bible study that they’re going to early in the morning. I’m like, why are you going to another? It’s so early. What’s this one? Imagine me saying to my kids, well, a fifth one? But my daughter, Faith, told me, oh, well, Hope leads it for the younger athletes. And I was like, oh. Oh my gosh, my little senior who’s like, she’s not that kind of person that I would see as like a leader of the Bible study. She’s just a character, really friendly and outgoing, but not usually the leader of the pack. So I was so impressed by that. But I know there’s a lot of pressure for them to please others. All right, we have one minute right now. And if you can stay, then we’ll take a break and I’ll keep you for the next segment, okay?

SPEAKER 01 : 12:44

Yeah, I got all the time in the world. Oh, good. People pleasing. You know, I think in people pleasing, I think there’s a desire for affirmation. Yes. I don’t even know that we think of it as I’m trying to please people. But the more people give you, you know, affirmation, the better you feel about yourself. And I think some. And so even I think particularly in the Christian circle, we get caught up in that trap, which is why a lot of Christians end up exhausted because they’re stuck in a performance trap of trying to gain God’s favor and feeling like the way to God’s favor is by doing more. So we wake up 10 years into the Christian walk exhausted. And I believe with all my heart that while Christian work is good, God wants to free us from living our lives, waiting for others to affirm us. And in an age of social media, boy, do we need that lesson. And often the lesson is learned by him holding back horizontal affirmation to the space where we can hear his voice of affirmation that has nothing to do with our works and everything to do with his love for us.

SPEAKER 03 : 13:42

I like that. All right, let’s take a break. We’ll be right back. We’re talking about the book Still Standing, Following Jesus Even When It Hurts. Alina, thanks for sticking around. We’ll be right back.

SPEAKER 05 : 13:57

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SPEAKER 01 : 14:55

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SPEAKER 03 : 15:06

Hey there, friend. Angie Austin with the good news. We are continuing our conversation with a doctor and author, Lina Abujamra. Her book is still standing, Following Jesus Even When It Hurts. All right, so we were talking just a minute ago about our, you know, need for affirmation and acceptance and how it breaks God’s heart. And I see that a lot with my teenagers. I don’t think as much as I do with some kids today. And oddly enough, more so I think with my son than with my girls. They’re pretty strong when it comes to, and you know all the pressure they have now. They’ve got social media. They’re going to sporting events. They’ve got homecoming and guys are inviting girls with big billboards or like… you know, a pair of Nike shoes that says, will you, if the shoe fits, will you be my princess for the homecoming dance or whatever? Like they’ve gotten into these big, huge, like, uh, that, that was one of my kid’s friends, you know, uh, invited his girlfriend that way, these big, huge things that they’re doing now. It’s like such, it’s like a, um, a performance to ask the girl of these dances. Um, my girls don’t really date much. Um, so they’re, they’re going with friends, but there is so much pressure around so many different things. And, I’m shocked at all the things that they know or all the things that they see or, you know, are things that are around them. And so we I don’t know what you’ll think of this, but just to help them avoid peer pressure, we give them breathalyzer tests maybe once a month. And but they know that we might do that. Right. And we’ve never they’ve never had alcohol in their breasts. breath, but I’m kind of doing it to my, one of my daughters says it really helps her when kids are pressuring her to drink. In fact, my, another one, my daughter said the other day, she goes, oh, well, mom, I had to tell this boy that he couldn’t come to the party. I had to kind of kick him out. I said, why did you have to do that? You weren’t even throwing the party. She goes, well, I was the only one who wasn’t drinking. And I was like, oh my gosh, is this really the way it is? And so we don’t want them to feel pressured. And one of my daughters said that it helps. She can tell her friends, oh no, my parents, they breathalyzer me. Like there’s no way that I’d be able to drink you know, or whatever. And the vaping, the other day the vape alarm went off in the girl’s bathroom like 42 times. And there’s a dean that handles that, that every time the vape alarm goes off, he has to go to the bathroom. And they were joking about it because he’s also a volleyball coach. And they were saying, oh, you know, dean so-and-so is so busy, he’s going to the bathroom because of the vape alarm went off 42 times yesterday. I mean, this is how high school is now. Plus, if you post a picture, then people are going to comment on it right away or tell you what’s wrong with you or what’s right with you or your friend got… Faith asks Hope, how do you get so many likes? How do you have so many people following you? You know, this is their world now. So… I’m glad that they have God to lean on and that they feel complete through Christ in many ways more than teens. But when I see these kids lean at school, some of them that I know were kind of outcast kids and they’re walking alone and they have their hood up and their head is down. Like I just, my own heart hurts so bad. And you work with kids for many years. My heart hurts so much for these kids and I can see why they feel so pressured.

SPEAKER 01 : 18:07

Yeah. I mean, you know, sadly, it’s not even just the kids. I, this week, I mean, it’s the, the, Stuff that shows up now in terms of research on social media addressing these things baffles me because we all know it. But now, like I saw in the New York Times, they were summarizing a few things that kind of align with what you’re saying. Number one, Instagram is now limiting what high schoolers and under, like 18 and under, can have access to. It’s starting this week. They’re no longer going to be getting like notifications from 10 p.m. to 5 a.m. They have to prove that they’re a human so that they don’t lie about like they have to send a video in or something in their private profiles as opposed to public profiles. Little steps that they’re doing. And you’re like, what? Instagram? Yeah, I’m sure there was some legal case that led to that at some point that led them to make those decisions. I also read this week in The Times an article about talking about how parents have – parental anxiety is affecting kids. Parental anxiety is so high and it’s rooted in what you’re saying. This is not even the Christian world. This is humanity at large. Parents are so anxious because they can’t keep up with the Joneses because you’ve got this social media world that’s constantly posting and telling you what you… What you just described, I would fail as a mom if I was a mom trying to guide my kids what to do for prom. I mean, you’re right. It’s like the ideas are over your head. And while doing, and I’ve never, honestly, I’m impressed that you do the breathalyzer. I have not heard of that before, but I think it’s very smart. In a sense, you clearly have a good relationship with your kids because sometimes kids, that might cause more of a rift with kids.

SPEAKER 02 : 19:36

Well, you know what’s funny, Lina? One of them came home the other night. She goes, why aren’t you breathalyzering? I’m like, come on, give me the breathalyzer.

SPEAKER 01 : 19:43

Like she wants to show off. Well, you brought up something. It gives them, you’re not, it’s like if you were thinking of it as a bad cop, good cop, now mom’s a bad cop. I don’t have to drink. And, you know, in a way it gives them, a cushion to, to not look like the dumb person at the party. And then, you know, like in a way you’ve offered them a way to curb a situation that might be difficult when you’re 15, 16, 17, it might be easier when you’re 23 to stand up. And so, but I think, I think also like, The hardest part, besides, you know, the alcohol and the drugs and the vaping, it’s the psychological warfare that happens when it comes to relating with other people. And that, I believe, is so pervasive, not just with high schoolers, but in all Christians. And I mentioned the moms, you know, that were mentioned in that article. But I’ve seen it as I’ve walked for 20 years now in Christian ministry. It is no better in Christian ministry. Literally, in publishing, in the publishing world, if you don’t get the likes, if you don’t get the Amazon reviews, if you don’t get the reviews, if you don’t get… you’re not going to get another book deal. Whoa, yeah. Going like, man, what am I supposed to do with the gift God has given me? And, you know, you could look at it and go, well, if you’re not selling books, you might not be very good. But that’s not true. Often the books that are not selling are books I’ve read, and they’re incredibly thoughtful and have even gotten good critical acclaim. But how does that mess up your brain and your soul if you’re really basing your value on how many book sales or how many likes or how many followers you’re accruing? So until you learn, in a way, social media, yeah, it’s hard, and it’s caused us to have this opportunity, this temptation to sin. But on the other hand, it’s also been a very useful tool that God can use to help realign our eyes and our hearts to the reality that only His pleasure and approval matters at the end of the day. And however you learn this, however we learn this, we must learn it. And the greatest Christian is the Christian who says, yeah, I’ve learned it. I used to be dependent on this, and now I’m not, whether you have to stop social media and other venues or learn to manage it. And so really, this is the impetus of that chapter in the book. How do you still stand? Well, you learn that Jesus is enough. when you’re not getting the horizontal affirmation that you were told once.

SPEAKER 03 : 21:53

That’s interesting about the book situation. And, you know, when we go to bed before the curfew and if we’re asleep when the girls come home, I’ve got a son too, but he’s a little bit older. And so when the girls come home, my daughter’s coming to wake us up to say, come on, come on, come on. Why don’t you breathalyzer me? Like she wants to show off like,

SPEAKER 02 : 22:10

Now it’s like this badge of honor. And we’re like, we’re asleep. We trust you.

SPEAKER 03 : 22:14

Maybe another time, you know, like do not turn on the light. You know, it’s midnight. Come on, leave us alone. All right. So you say instead of, you know, asking God why in the book that we should ask him what? What do you mean by that?

SPEAKER 01 : 22:27

Well, we spent, when you take it out of context like this, it can be easy to be like, well, wait, God has asked us to ask him why. I think we can get stuck in the why. We can get stuck in our, this is Job, classic Job. I mean, for the entire book of Job, it’s the whole book is 42 chapters. Let’s say the first, up until chapter 39, I think when it changes tone. For 39 chapters, outside of that anecdote at the beginning that sets up the book, it’s Job asking why, why, why, why, why, why? And there’s a point where it’s like, like, Okay, stop asking why and ask, what is God inviting you to in this season in your life? What is the invitation here? Is it to surrender? Is it to be content? Is it to confess sin? I mean, what is happening? And I, sometimes it takes, you have to really lean into the what, because it’s a harder question to answer, and it might take time. You know, you might not get the answer in your 10-minute devotional in the morning. Sometimes you do, but sometimes, for me, I have questions in my life right now that I’ve asked why for a few years, and for the past year or a year and a half, I’ve been asking what, and the Lord has little by little been teaching me and showing me, and this is where I think, again, we’re not in this we’re in a relationship with God. And I think we just missed what it truly means, or maybe I missed what it truly meant, in that, you know, we are more contractual by nature. It’s like we think God is like this Amazon Prime relationship. I come to him in the morning. You know, I tell him what I need. I want to learn what. So if he doesn’t tell me what, then he’s not talking to me. Right, and you want same-day delivery.

SPEAKER 03 : 23:52

And you want same-day delivery, right?

SPEAKER 01 : 23:54

Correct. And you have to let this, you have to let it breathe. And sometimes it means going to your small group or to your church and listening and turning the Christian radio on. And sometimes it means wrestling with God. And sometimes it might mean asking why. But ultimately, the why is meant to ask to get you to a place where you can receive the what God is trying to do in your life. And so a good question, if you’re listening, if you’re struggling, if you’re kind of wondering, confused, prayers unanswered, is to start asking that question. What is God inviting you to in this season of your life?

SPEAKER 03 : 24:23

I like that. All right. So in your books, in your work, in your ministry, what do you hope that readers will take away from your own life stories and your lessons?

SPEAKER 01 : 24:36

Everything I’ve ever written, my longing is that people understand how deeply and how unending the love of God is for them. We cannot stop his love for us. And the life of the Christian is a journey of understanding more and more how deeply God loves us.

SPEAKER 03 : 24:53

You talk about too, that’s beautiful, by the way, you talk about the breadcrumbs of grace and to not miss the breadcrumbs of grace. And I don’t know if I’m kind of doing that now, but I have this, I usually have on my phone something about, you know, being still and, you know, in scripture of some sort. And, but right now I have every second counts. And so I’ll try to find like the beauty in small things throughout the day, like the wonder that we miss throughout the day. You know, like we take, you know, like a, we like the eclipse is a big deal, but the sunrise isn’t. But I think the sunrise is like more beautiful or the sunset than the eclipse, actually. You know what I mean? Like, but it happens every day. So we’re like, eh, whatever. So I’m trying to like stop and see the breadcrumbs that the Lord drops for us. But what do you mean by the breadcrumbs of grace?

SPEAKER 01 : 25:40

Yeah. I mean, I think we’re such, I mean, we’re such tangible people in a sense. Like, you know, they say, I think it’s toddlers that are very concrete up until really up until the, even through teenage years. After that, when you get to be a teenager, you become less concrete. And in some ways, spiritually speaking, many of us are in the early stages of our faith, even if we’ve been a Christian for a while. And we need concrete. And this is God’s grace so often is that He does give us concrete. Now, not always… Like, if you come to him with a question, he might not give you the answer for that, but what he does do, I found in life, is a lot of little breadcrumbs along the way, sort of guiding you back to him, right? And it’s like Hansel Gretel, the way home, you little breadcrumbs of grace, like, we’re going to find our way back. And those can come in a number of ways. It can be a verse that keeps popping up when you least expect it to. It can be… You know, sometimes, like, I love Red Cardinals. They’re not as common here as they should come in Chicago more. But every time I see it, it’s like, God is like, we have a thing in our family, so that’s become a thing. Other times, it’s more dramatic. I tell the story in the book of once, a few years ago, I really felt on the verge of quitting the ministry. And out of the random blue, I got a phone call from some guy who was looking for a Bible study, came across my ministry, ended up reading like three hours worth of blogs, and called and said, I don’t know why I’m calling you, but I just feel impressed to call you and say… Don’t quit. And I had a prayer where I was like, I mean, so that’s clearly not that’s a bread loaf of grace. It’s not a bread loaf. Not sure I’m ahead with that. But the fact is, we all see that in our life. And you’re right. There has to be an intentional awareness of stopping. So obsessed with the one thing you’re waiting on God for and start opening your eyes to the many, many, many ways that he reminds you of his presence. that he nudges you and says, hey, it’s like a sacred wink, a sacred echo that says, I haven’t forgotten you, I love you, I’m here, I’m involved in your life, and I’ve got your back.

SPEAKER 03 : 27:30

I like that. All right, we’ve got about a minute left. What’s next? What are you doing right now? What’s in the near future?

SPEAKER 01 : 27:37

You know, we have recently purchased a house near my house in the northwest suburbs of Chicago that is a retreat house. We’re going to be doing teaching retreats as well as silent guided retreats and just hosting a place where people can come and have meals together. So we’re hoping that God will help teach us again how to do community. I think it’s an art thing. and a spiritual practice that has been left by the wayside, even in the most ardent church settings that believe in it. I think we as 2024, you know, this generation, we just have lost the ability to really connect over meals. And so we have a retreat house that we are starting to expand into what God might do to bring people together who might not, you know, normally do this kind of thing, maybe even going through hurt and maybe they used to be in church and they’re not and just want to create a venue for them to maybe reconnect with with other Christians and sense the love of Christ. And so we’re praying that God will use it and that he’ll continue to grow all the other things that he’s done in our ministry, the work in Lebanon, the books, the Bible studies. So really looking forward to all God still has for us.

SPEAKER 03 : 28:38

And Lena, that’s livingwithpower.org. Is that correct? That’s right. Excellent. Livingwithpower.org. Thank you, Lena. What a pleasure. A real blessing to have you.

SPEAKER 04 : 28:48

Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.