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Join John Rush and his guest, Jordan Goodman, as they discuss the critical intersection of immigration, labor shortages, and American work ethic. Through their insightful conversation, they dissect the current political barriers to immigration reform and the potential economic impact if those issues remain unaddressed. Learn why it’s crucial for the American youth to rediscover their work ethic and how this transformation can address the pressing need for workers in vital sectors such as construction and agriculture.
SPEAKER 10 :
This is Rush to Reason. You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 05 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 07 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job first. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 13 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life. That there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 07 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 05 :
And welcome. Tuesday edition, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate, Charlie Grimes. And beautiful day, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
It is spectacular. A little too hot.
SPEAKER 05 :
A little warm today.
SPEAKER 08 :
A little warm. A little warm.
SPEAKER 05 :
Warmer than it’s been. Let’s just say that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes. I don’t really like this.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, it’s a tad warm for me as well, although after all the rain and everything we’ve had, I’ll take a little bit of warmth. So, you know what? It’s all good at the end of the day.
SPEAKER 08 :
I agree.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. Tuesday edition. Today, we’ve got George Goodman joining us here for this first hour of America’s Money Answer Man. Jordan, how are you, sir?
SPEAKER 03 :
Great to be with you, John Landry.
SPEAKER 05 :
Always a joy having you, Jordan. And go ahead, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, yeah, it’s wonderful. But, Jordan, I’ve got to warn you in advance. If you get out of line today, Trump will send in the Marines. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
So just so you know. I’d give them tea and crumpets. Tea and crumpets. That’s hilarious.
SPEAKER 08 :
We just want you on your best behavior. I just thought I’d put that out there right away.
SPEAKER 05 :
Gotcha.
SPEAKER 08 :
How are things going back east?
SPEAKER 03 :
A lot calmer than in the west these days. I mean, it’s getting out of control. I think he’s really got to do something to get it together. We don’t want to have another George Floyd summer, which is what it could be if it gets out of hand.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, and I think the troops will do a good job. They’ve got to get settled in. Obviously, there’s a transition getting all stationed in place and so forth. I didn’t have to do those deployments when I was in the Air Force, but I knew a lot about them. I did some mini ones, and it takes time. I think it’ll come around.
SPEAKER 03 :
But this is a different situation than in 2020 when George Floyd, that was one individual who had that case, which kind of set off this. But this is a systematic situation where, you know, these immigration deportations are happening all over the country. And I think you could see protests. We already have and we’ll see more protests all over the country. So we could be calling National Guards out all over the place on this.
SPEAKER 08 :
They’re protesting for the right to break the law. I’m sorry, Jordan, that just blows my mind. It really does.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I agree with you.
SPEAKER 05 :
And flying the Mexican flag while they’re doing so.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. That’s a little bit egregious.
SPEAKER 08 :
How come they never burn that one? Good question. Sorry. Go ahead, Jordan.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m just saying that they’re usually law-abiding, tax-paying, contributing citizens who did one thing wrong, which was to come in illegally whenever they did. So that was illegal. But other than that, they’ve been good citizens. And we’re already starting to see labor shortages in restaurants and on the farm and slaughterhouses and places where Americans don’t want to do these jobs, construction. So people are afraid to go to work because they think they’re going to get picked up, and they’re probably right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, yeah, but isn’t the answer to that very simple, Jordan? I don’t believe that only illegal aliens can do those jobs. I believe legal aliens can also do those jobs. So how about simply go out and come right back in, do it the right way. You get a work visa. You go through the process like everybody else. How about actually using the front door?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, really quick, I’ll chime in here for both you guys. It’s not that easy, unfortunately. That’s part of my issues and part of my complaints is we need to revamp some of what Andy just said to make it where it would be easier along those lines. Do some merit-based systems. And if we need those particular individuals, for example, if you’re a business that needs workers, HB1, HB2s, either one, there is an entire, let’s just say this, in most cases, and Jordan, you know this as well as I, in most cases, you’re hiring a firm or you’ve got to have an attorney working for you that’s willing to go through all of the paperwork necessary to to even get in line to even be able to participate in said program. It is a major, major, major hassle. By the way, it’s not fair. It’s a pay-in-place setup, if you ask me. All the big companies are able to achieve workers at times where the little guy is left out with basically whatever the scraps that are left over. It’s a very unfair system in the way we handle that right now, and it needs a complete revamp also.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’ve been trying to reform immigration for at least 30 years. I mean, Reagan was trying to do it. And it’s just not in the political consensus to get it done. Everybody says it’s a broken immigration system. We agree on that. But how to fix it? is very politically difficult to do. And you’re right, we need to do it.
SPEAKER 05 :
It may be, although, Jordan, bear with me for a minute, no one has yet come along, in my opinion, that is like me and is in the business world and is even in these communities where you need these sorts of workers, the tradesmen, I should say, whether it be the construction end of things, roofing, etc., The reality is the people writing the rules are not living my life. You have very little input from those particular individuals. You get all sorts of input from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and all sorts of people, by the way, that have no stake in the game when it’s all said and done. Some of their members may. Some of their members may not. The reality is we’ve got people trying to write policy that know very little about it when it’s all said and done.
SPEAKER 03 :
But isn’t your view of what’s happening on the ground right now is there is going to be a growing labor shortage? in other various construction in a meatpacking plants picking grapes restaurants, all these areas where illegal immigrants work.
SPEAKER 05 :
There possibly could be. To answer your question, yes, there very well could be, depending upon how things go and depending upon how quickly we fix some of the things that you and I and Andy are talking about right now. And that’s my concern. I don’t see anything on the books right now trying to fix some of the things that we’re talking about. By the way, I’m all for making sure that people are here legally, they’re working legally and so on. And I want to add one more thing to it. The other part of this equation that even our side, I think, gets wrong a lot is saying, you know, if you take away a lot of the giveaways that are out there for a lot of these other individuals that aren’t working, then those people will go to work and will be just fine. Not from the employer’s standpoint, by the way. That’s not true. Because as an employer myself… If you came to work, if you came to apply for me saying, you know what, I got to finally now go look for a job because my government dole checks finally ended. You know what I’m going to tell you? Go apply at the next place. I don’t want you because I know you’re lazy, fat, happy, doing whatever it was you were doing. And no, I don’t want you working on my team.
SPEAKER 08 :
Are you fat shaming?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, I am in this case. Absolutely. And I’m being very serious, Jordan. That’s the problem that my site has. Yeah, my site has this wrong at times. They’re just thinking, well, if we just quit giving so many handouts out, these other people will go to work. Not for people like me. They won’t because I won’t hire them.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, we do have to discontinue, though, paying a large percentage of Americans tonight.
SPEAKER 05 :
Not not arguing that. But my point is, there’s a lot of and I talk to these people because I consult with them in the business consulting end of things that I do. And the reality is a lot of these people that are looking for tradesmen. If you’ve been sitting at home on the dole for whatever reason, are you going to go to these trades and actually get a job? I’m sorry to say you won’t.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, part of the new so-called Big Beautiful Bill are work requirements, particularly for Medicaid. Yep. It would be a revolutionary kind of thing. And I’m all for that. To administer it is going to be difficult, but they are saying you can’t just… And I’m fine with that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and Jordan, I mean, Clinton and Gingrich put together a very similar plan that had very great success.
SPEAKER 03 :
It worked.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, I see no reason why not to do that. I don’t think it’s good for people to wake up every day needing… Other people to get by. OK, you want to be knee dead at a workplace. OK, both sides, Republican, Democrat, want the person to get the money to get by and pay their bills and eat their food and so forth. But one side seems to want them to be needy. The other side seems to want them to be needed.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. And really quick, I want them needed, and I’m all for getting these people to go back to work. My point is, when it comes to certain trades, our side thinks, well, if you just quit handing out money, these people will go right back into the workforce and they’ll go work the trades. No, I hate to say this, but they’ll have to use the stepping stone approach. They may very well have to go work a restaurant job or something along those lines first to gain some experience to where the trades will then even accept them.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, there’s a transition mentally, emotionally, isn’t there, Jordan? I mean, you’re taking somebody who hasn’t worked and converting them to working. They are used to being totally available for their family every day. They’re used to being able to do whatever they want. I mean, it’s an incredible change of lifestyle, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
But we need them. I mean, if we can get this to be done, that would be great. We have a shortage of workers. And with what’s going on with immigration, we’re going to have a bigger shortage of workers. I mean, food is not going to be… uh… picture is going to go up in the field uh… how about going to be built restaurants are not going to have people to clean up the dishes i mean this is what’s happening i think it’s going to be more and more as we and they’re talking about deporting three thousand people a day right now and ramping up even more those are the kind of people that are getting deported
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, well, you know, let’s keep in mind, though, every one of those people is a felon. Okay, they broke our immigration law. Jordan, how many countries have you invaded? I doubt any. Okay, we got to think about it. Take a step back. It is really something to actually invade a country. What these people have done is a terrible thing. Does that mean, oh, I want them all gone forever? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But I want them to go through the legal process. And by the way, we talk about how long it is to have people go through that process. Part of the thing that’s made it very long is all the people cutting in line in front of them. I mean, it’s weighted down the system, right? The entire system is just bogged down.
SPEAKER 03 :
But the courts are overwhelmed, too. I mean, part of this bill, as my understanding, is a whole adding a lot of judges and ramping up the system because it’s totally overwhelmed. It could be six or seven years in. Your case is a thing you’re long gone by then.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m pretty confident, Jordan, wouldn’t you be? I’m pretty confident that we will. Look, Donald Trump is a businessman. He’s not going to look at the workplace, see that they don’t have the workers, and not find a way to get them the workers. I think what he’s going to do is exactly what John Rush is saying. Okay, now. I mean, look, he streamlines and cuts regulation in every other area of life. Don’t you think he’ll do that for the immigration system if we first just get people not cutting in lines?
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, we do have this, what is it called, the e-pay system, or, you know, the e-verify. I mean, we do have systems out there. I mean, they do some good, but there’s obviously tens of millions of people who are working who are not documented. Because, again, I think Americans will not do these jobs. Nobody will do them if they don’t have these people doing them. Can you see Americans going out and picking grapes and oranges and things? I don’t think so.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, they actually used to.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I was going to say, Jordan, that’s where you and I will disagree. The problem is we have got a system whereby we have encouraged a lot of kids to not do those jobs, Go to college, get all this debt, you’ll come out, you’ll do this, you’ll do that. And unfortunately, we’ve encouraged that. And the reality is, you know, we used to have young kids even in their teens that were out doing some of the jobs you’re talking about right now that no longer will. In fact, I just had a text message come in from somebody that says a lot of adults will even shame these young individuals for working those types of jobs, McDonald’s and so on over the summer months, which, by the way, is a crime in and of itself. If you ask me, those particular parents ought to be beat.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
Literally, those adults should be beat.
SPEAKER 03 :
You have to encourage your kids to work. It’s not about the amount of money you make. It’s about the work ethic and showing up on time and being responsible and that kind of thing.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s learning not only the skill, Jordan, but how to work.
SPEAKER 03 :
My first job was age nine when I was delivering newspapers, which was not an easy job to do. I went around on my bicycle. and had to go to all these houses. I think I had like 300 in my paper room, a lot. And then I had to collect the money. That’s right. Every week I’m collecting, you know, and I get the money to them. I was at age nine.
SPEAKER 08 :
You see, I picture you at age nine designing portfolios.
SPEAKER 05 :
Soon thereafter. Oh, okay. Yep. All right, let’s take a quick break. Great conversation, guys, by the way. Dr. Scott Faulkner coming up next. And if you would love a doctor that thinks like we do, look no further than Dr. Scott. Give him a call today, 303-663-6990.
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SPEAKER 09 :
It’s time to leave your safe space. This is Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason. Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. John Rush together with Andy Pate on the line. We’ve got Jordan Goodman, America’s Money Answer Man. And, Jordan, really quick here. You and John, I think, hit on the elephant in the room. You hit on the thing that we are trying to dance around. Both sides are trying to say, well, we’ve got to shut down all the illegal immigration. No, we need the workers in the fields. But you guys both hit on the elephant in the room, and that is this. We must revive the American work ethic, period, amongst young people. The answer is not to stop, to continue not expecting anything of young people. Oh, my son or daughter shouldn’t have to pick grapes, shouldn’t have to work at McDonald’s, shouldn’t have to do this, shouldn’t have to do that.
SPEAKER 05 :
Which they don’t have anymore, but they get to drift.
SPEAKER 08 :
What I’m saying is this. We need a micro revolution, okay? We need young people to understand, guess what? Starting right now, the work ethic has to come back. All those jobs are there for you. You need to be able to do them. You’ve got to work again. Otherwise, what we’re doing is we’re trying to just import everybody. We’re trying to allow a bunch of Americans to be on welfare and lazy and import people to replace them. Or we’re trying to have a bunch of young people have everything paid for them and import a bunch of people to work for them. We’re papering around the elephant in the room. And that is the American work ethic. We need it back. What do you think, Jordan?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I agree. And starting young. I mean, in a lot of the high schools, they don’t have the trades. I used to have carpentry, and they teach you these kind of things. They don’t have that in school anymore. Learning hand skills, even cooking and things like that. Everything’s on the computer and on your phone today. So it’s not a completely digital world. You actually have to do real things in the world.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and one of the things we had in our notes today was talk about the universities, and there’s been some threats by the Trump administration to take funds that normally would be going to Harvard, $3 billion, put that into trade schools instead. And by the way, Jordan, there’s a $50-plus billion endowment to Harvard. They don’t need that money. Give it to the trades.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, okay, I’m going to disagree with that a little bit. The way endowments work, you can’t raid the endowment to cover your operating expenses.
SPEAKER 05 :
Then they need to change their operating expenses around or raise their tuition. But I, as a taxpayer, should not be funding Harvard.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, okay, so there’s different ways that the taxpayer funds Harvard. One of them is research grants, which is about $9 billion, mostly for medical, other research, but mostly Harvard Medical School and new research on drugs for Alzheimer’s and things like that. That’s one area. And that’s typically done through the National Institutes of Health. It’s a competitive process. They have to qualify for these grants. It’s a whole long process to do that.
SPEAKER 08 :
But doesn’t that produce revenue, though?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, in the long run, I mean, this is, in many cases, the basic research that produces drugs. A good example right now, we have all these GLP-1s, which millions of people take to help lose weight. The basic research that created the opportunity to do GLP-1s came from university research. That’s an example of the benefit of funding that research over the long term. That’s one. The other way we subsidize Harvard, I guess you’d say, and other schools is they have tax-exempt status, which they’ve always had for a long, long time. It’s because it’s considered a non-profit group for the public good. It’s not a profit-making organization. The third way we benefit them is we have very low tax rates. On their endowments, they pay 1.4%. tax rate, the bill that’s going through the big, beautiful bill would raise that to 21% for the big institutions like Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT. And then there’s a graduated rate of 21 at the top, 14, and then 7. So dramatically increasing the taxes on colleges, which they’re all complaining about would mean that it would take money away from student financial aid and all kinds of other things. So there are various ways that we subsidize universities. And the argument to be made is that’s our gem that helps America stay ahead. And also, we bring in foreign students who typically pay full freight. And these are many cases, the foundations of communities. I mean, what would Boulder be without the University of Colorado? I mean, these are the major things that run along.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, thank you. That’s actually not an untrue statement, Andy.
SPEAKER 03 :
These are institutions that run… you know, cities around the country. So that’s the argument for them. I mean, you could look at it another way and say they should pay higher taxes, but that money’s got to come from somewhere, and it’s got to come from student financial aid and keeping up the campus and hiring professors and all the things that colleges do.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, or, and this may not be the right way to look at it, but there’s also lots of alma mater that are out there that have, in some cases, millions or billions of dollars that they’ve got the ability where if we, as a government, weren’t funding that, then you’ve got to ask the question, would some of those folks step in and take care of that? I don’t know that answer.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, they’re donors. They do contribute a lot. But to take away the billions of dollars that we’re giving, no, private donors are not going to make up the difference in giving $9 billion to Harvard for doing medical research. It’s just not going to happen. So a lot of research will never happen. In fact, right now, a lot of those research projects are being disbanded, and the scientists are being laid off. We’re going to create a reverse brain drain. We’ve always had the best people from around the world wanting to come here, to do research those people are going to go to canada or australia or europe because the opportunity that you’re going to do basic research
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, you know, Jordan, there are two things, though, that really bother me about the colleges and the money that they’re getting. And first of all is they are incredibly biased with what they do with that money. You know, when you take all that kind of money in and then you advance one-sided agendas, I think that’s really out of bounds, okay? And another thing is the tremendous imbalance between the money going to those kinds of, you know, higher education schools versus what would be going to the trade schools.
SPEAKER 05 :
You don’t matter.
SPEAKER 08 :
You don’t matter. This is work for those immigrants.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, no, I agree. We should definitely have more. We have a huge shortage of tradespeople, and more every year because the baby boomers are retiring every year, and those are the ones doing the trades. And there are not enough young people at all to fill in for plumbers, electricians, and tool and die, and all the trades that we need in this country, for sure. So I totally agree. We should have more in trade schools and encourage people and This is a good job. This is a good thing. Really quick.
SPEAKER 05 :
What I want, Jordan, is I want more balance. I guess that’s where I would come back as I want the trades like you guys were just talking about. I don’t want to see all of the money that goes to the research you’re talking about at Harvard and Yale and other places go completely away. But I will tell you this. I don’t want any of my tax dollars being spent on women’s studies and the gay agenda and the transgender end of things and a lot of the psychological things that we mess with on campuses and so on. If we’re doing it strictly for the medical sides of things and we’re going that route, I’m all for it. But a lot of this other quote unquote nonsense that we do on college campuses, that needs to end.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it is ending. I mean, this is what Trump is doing with DEI and the so-called woke agenda. I mean, what you’re asking for is in fact happening right now. So you win.
SPEAKER 05 :
Now we need to divert some money back to the trades.
SPEAKER 08 :
What about a totally different problem with the major schools, Jordan? Lazy, expensive profs with tenure. And that’s not little.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s a whole other conversation.
SPEAKER 08 :
That is massive money. You’ve got profs who barely teach, who are barely in the classroom, and they have their understudies going in.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, they’re doing research. In theory, they’re doing research.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, yeah. They’re working on their novel. Look, the fact is they are costing an insane amount of money, and I have a lot of problem with having endowments and big tax donations going to places like that when I can give tax donations to this trade school where a guy named Ed can teach 20 guys how to be a plumber and turn their lives around. Do you see what I’m saying?
SPEAKER 03 :
It just seems out of whack here. I think there’s a major change going on in education, and the other thing we haven’t talked about is artificial intelligence. Right. All human knowledge from the very beginning of humanity is now in these large language models. So the old structure of the education and the knowledge that’s being kept by these fancy universities has changed now that AI is making it much more available to everybody. So the old model doesn’t really work in an AI age.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s true. That’s true. And that’ll be a big, as you know, that’s going to be an ongoing shift. And I do think, to you and Andy’s point, that we have not only now an administration, but I think and what I’m seeing across the board is more and more young people realizing that, wait a minute. You know, maybe college is where I should go, or maybe it’s not. Maybe I should look at the trades. And you know what? I look at some other folks that are out there that are coming out of trade schools. In fact, in some cases, that trade may even be paying for college if I agree to work so many years for that particular business. On and on we go. At the end of the day, I could come out with zero debt, be making a six-digit figure, be way far ahead of even my cohorts that are going to go off to college and be there for four to five to six years. By the way, it’s a minimum of five years now because of – the lack of learning they’re getting in high school.
SPEAKER 03 :
Do you have trouble hiring mechanics like Carmichael? Absolutely. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 05 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 03 :
And it’s a good job. People don’t want to go into that.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s a good job. Really quick, for those of you listening, it’s a great job because you can start and start. I’m not exaggerating. You could start and be in the upper 20s to low 30s an hour coming right out of trade school very easily, meaning you could make 60, 70 grand right off the bat. And if you apply yourself, do well and learn, you could be in the six digits in a matter of two to three years.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and also, John and Jordan, when you think about all the cars that they have to work on nowadays, the incredible electric cars, I mean, the incredible diversity of cars, the skill set that you need to be a really good mechanic is amazing. It is far beyond what you’ll get at most colleges.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 08 :
I mean, seriously, I have a college degree, okay, and my college degree does not equip me with as many skills as a good mechanic.
SPEAKER 1 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. You need both, but we have a shortage of trades. It’s going to get worse as the baby boom keeps retiring. You’re right. Every year, 10,000 people a day retire. and allow those people in the trades. They work in the military or they’re working in agriculture, and so the younger people don’t want to do those kind of things. So it’s a crisis. I agree.
SPEAKER 05 :
Meaning that if you’re somebody listening and you’ve got any kind of friends or grandkids or sons or daughters, and I had a great testimony a few weeks ago, Jordan, of somebody that called in who has a son that is going to very track you and I are talking about, that’s going to come out of high school, have an immediate job, have transportation, Craig College already under his belt from doing some of that through his high school years, and will be making far more money than his counterparts that graduate five years from now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Without the debt.
SPEAKER 05 :
Without the debt.
SPEAKER 03 :
Which is a huge burden. That’s right.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, the debt is just – we’re up to about $1.8 trillion now in student-owned debt. And remember, we had a three-year hiatus because of COVID that has now ended. Mm-hmm. So people are having to start to pay their student loans again, and it is really putting a lot of people behind and making their credit scores plunge and causing a lot of trauma out there from that debt taken years ago in many cases.
SPEAKER 08 :
Jordan, you said there were three different levels from the big, beautiful bill on the taxes applied to the colleges. How do they determine what level a college is placed in?
SPEAKER 03 :
Based on the size of the endowment.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
So I think it’s over $10 billion is 21%. And that only applies to a few, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford. I think those are the main ones. And then I think it’s like $5 to $10 billion. Harvard’s endowment is about $50 billion. So tax the rich. I think $5 to $10 billion is the 14% level, and then below that is the 7%. Something like that. It’s based on the size of the endowment.
SPEAKER 05 :
OK, makes sense. OK, let’s talk about the big, beautiful bill. And I did not get a chance to check today. Jordan, I apologize. I had other things going on before the show, so I didn’t get to get an update on where that’s at in the Senate. Are we making any progress? Is it going to happen? Is it going to be broken down into smaller bills? What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, it will not be broken into smaller bills. It’s one big, beautiful bill or it’s nothing. Basically, this is the entire Trump agenda in one bill. Basically, we get to answer it. Is this going to work or it’s not going to work? Never passed. the house since we last spoke by one vote literally it was two fourteen to two two fifty in favor two fourteen again so there was literally zero margin for that one on the senate there’s three republicans so it could lose you know one or two republicans there’s going to be zero democratic support for the entire thing no matter what so we know that’s kind of off the table they’re getting this through with the so-called reconciliation bill which means they can do it on a pure majority instead of the normal having to do sixty votes with a filibuster in the Senate. So the House came up with this monstrous, it’s over 1,000 pages, it’s a very, very long and complex bill, and the Senate has a lot of objections to it. And certain senators, Rand Paul from Kentucky, Lisa Murkowski from Alaska, Joni Ernst, the various senators are saying they will not vote for it in its current view. There are certain things, and all of them have a different objection to it. And then throwing fuel on the fire is what happened the last week or so with Elon Musk having this major fallout with President Trump, basically over this bill. And Elon Musk said, you know, I’m killing myself here to try to save money using Doge. And I would say at best, at best, maybe he saved $200 billion. It’s probably less than that, but at best. And that’s closing down USAID and stopping funding for PBS and PR and cutting people in all the different agencies. You know, a lot of pain out there. Maybe $200 billion, maybe. But the way that the bill is being configured, it’s going to cost at least $2.5 trillion more that it’s bringing in. I mean, one of the things it’s doing… Yeah, whoa, whoa, it’s not going to stop you there.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s based on CBO numbers that they’re flatlining, that they’re not looking at any economic growth at all.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, there’s also dynamic scoring.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, not that much dynamic, and they were way off on the last go around, Jordan. I don’t believe anything the CBO says. I hate to say that, but they’re never right.
SPEAKER 08 :
I think they’re undershooting on growth. I really do.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’ve done this in the past where, for example, under the 2017 tax bill, okay, which was a big tax cut, it did help improve the economy, and growth rose because of it, but not enough to make up for the loss of taxes. And the same thing happened with Reagan in 1981. He cut taxes dramatically. The economy took off, but our deficits still went up.
SPEAKER 08 :
Spending went up, though.
SPEAKER 03 :
It does help growth, but it doesn’t so-called pay for itself. It helps growth, but not enough. So the reality is that we’re currently at about $37 trillion, our national debt. That’s going to go into the 40s and the 50s and just these staggering numbers based on this bill. Okay, so that’s some of the centers like Rand Paul, Ted Cruz, and others are saying this is not enough cuts to do it. So on top of the existing tax cuts being renewed, we’re adding massive new tax cuts, for example, on overtime. Social Security and tips. It’s great for those people. It’s great for working people. But that’s a lot of revenue that the government’s not going to be getting. So the reality is this bill is going to make the deficit go up a lot more, even if we have growth, because of the tax cuts. That’s my view.
SPEAKER 08 :
I don’t know. I mean, it depends on how much growth. Okay. But I mean, oh, go ahead, Jordan. I’m sorry.
SPEAKER 03 :
If we’re growing at, well, maybe 1% now. Remember the first quarter was negative 0.3. If we’re growing at 2% to 3%, okay, something like that, the bill will not pay for itself. That’s what I’m saying. The deficit’s going to keep going up. So what some senators are saying is we’ve got to cut even more. I mean, a balanced budget is impossible, but at least have a more balanced budget. And that’s what Elon Musk was objecting to, and that’s what he got into trouble with Trump on, because he said, oh, no, it’s going to pay for itself and all that kind of stuff. I just don’t think it’s going to.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m not saying that it’ll balance, but I think it’ll be better than some of the horror show predictions that I’m seeing. And honestly, I believe that the big, beautiful bill goes through. We could see growth going over 3% by end of the year. I really do. I think it could really take off.
SPEAKER 03 :
On one hand, it’ll help higher income people and businesses invest, which is good. But it’s going to hurt a lot of people. Millions of people are going to lose their health insurance, for example. And those people, they’re not going to contribute to the economy.
SPEAKER 05 :
The ones we were already talking about?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, the vast majority are not illegal immigrants.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, no, no. I’m talking about there’s a lot of folks right now. I’ve read the statistics on this, Jordan. There’s a lot of folks right now that are getting assistance from Medicaid because they stay underneath a certain threshold. They might even have the ability to have coverage through their own through their own job. In other words, these aren’t people that are sitting on the couch. They have the ability, in a lot of cases, to get insurance through their own job, but because of their income level and where they fall in particular states, Colorado being one of them, by the way, they can make up to about $75,000 a year and still be on Medicaid. That’s a load of crap, and they should be taking their own insurance out of their own company.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I agree with that. That should be lowered.
SPEAKER 05 :
And those are some of the people that we’re talking about that, quote-unquote, will lose their insurance.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. I think in that case, I agree. But there’s a lot of people that does not apply to the real poor and disabled and so on.
SPEAKER 05 :
There isn’t anybody that’s poor or disabled that’s going to lose their Medicaid.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, I don’t think there is either, Jordan. I think that they are still protected under this bill.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, there’s no way like that.
SPEAKER 08 :
I don’t think that’s good. But we only have so much time, and I’ve got to ask this question. Go ahead. The thing that’s really upset me with this bill, Jordan, is taking the SALT deduction from $10,000 to $40,000. That infuriates me. To me, that is simply smart states having to pay for stupid states. Do you think the Senate will at least knock that down to 30 or 25?
SPEAKER 03 :
There’s a lot of senators in these high-tax states, even some Republican ones, who, you know, they’re getting a lot of pressure to bring that salt tax. It’s now $10,000. And as you said, the current bill says $40,000. We’ll see where it comes out. But there’s a big constituency for wealthy people in high-tax states to get that tax deduction back. It used to be unlimited, but they’ve been hurting since the 10,000. But somebody’s got to pay these taxes. And I think high-income people in high-tax states are a good place to start.
SPEAKER 05 :
That I’m not going to disagree with. You’re correct. All right, we’ll be right back. Don’t go anywhere. Veteran Windows and Doors coming up next. 35% off up to three windows, 40% up to four or more windows. Call Dave today. Find him at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 09 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right, we are back, and Jordan Goodman with us, America’s Money Answer Man. Jordan, I apologize. We got to go on, and we’ve been on it since you came on air, but we have yet to let people know how they can get a hold of you. How do they do that?
SPEAKER 03 :
They can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com. Always glad to help your listeners.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right, Fed, they didn’t do anything this last month. I’m not sure they will this month. Bond prices and so on. Talk to us about all of that and what you think their next move will be.
SPEAKER 03 :
So the official inflation numbers are looking pretty good. The latest one was 2.1% annual rate by the PCE, which is the personal consumption expenditure number they look at. So on current numbers right now, inflation’s looking pretty good. You’d think they could cut rates to some extent. But what they see is a storm coming of tariffs that will raise prices.
SPEAKER 05 :
They won’t. They haven’t yet, and it’s not going to, Jordan.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, they have to some extent. Definitely some stores have been putting through prices.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, but hear me out. Because of where we’re at with our energy prices and what’s gone on that side of things, the reality is prices overall, that’s why you’re not seeing inflation’s number go up. And the Fed should be looking at what I am as well. They should be tracking some of the things that I’m tracking. And the reality is, at the end of the day… No, it’s not going to raise anything. And by the way, and I’ve said this before and I have no problem saying this again, if in fact the prices at Walmart go up, the net tax receiver will now become a net taxpayer, which I’m okay with.
SPEAKER 03 :
Meaning Walmart.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, meaning the person shopping at Walmart, which typically I’m not trying to put anybody into a box, but typically people that shop at Walmart are of the lower income, not always, Jordan, but typically they are. And we already know from the Trump tax cuts that that particular group of individuals became net tax receivers, not net taxpayers. So if there’s tariffs and their prices go up at Walmart, they now are contributing and they haven’t been, is my point.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, about 50% of the population does not pay any taxes. Correct. I mean, any income taxes.
SPEAKER 05 :
In no offense, I will tell you that a majority of those are probably shopping at places like Walmart.
SPEAKER 03 :
I go there. So they would be paying it through a sales tax.
SPEAKER 05 :
They’re paying it through the cost of goods that went up that are now going to be in a form of a tariff that that company that sold that good to Walmart now has to pay. So in a roundabout way, they’re paying a tax they weren’t paying prior.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, but the whole tariff situation is so uncertain right now. I mean, as we speak right now, negotiations are going on in London between Scott Besant, the Treasury Secretary, and the Chinese negotiators over the tariffs. Now, it could go either way. I mean, remember before, we were at 145% tariffs originally from China, and then they lowered that to 30%, and China hitting U.S. exports to China at 10%. That’s where we are right now. But supposedly all this ends July 9th, like less than a month from now, And it could go either way. We could have tariffs go down. We could have tariffs soar. We don’t know which way it’s going to go. So the Fed feels they have to stay on hold to see the way this thing works out. If tariffs soar, if we go back to 145% tariffs on China as we were before, that is clearly going to raise prices on a wide range of products that Americans buy. That cannot be found anywhere else. Well, of course, but it would be short-term.
SPEAKER 08 :
But it would be short-term. There’s no way. 145% is not going to be sustainable. That would simply speed up a deal. I mean, there’s no way that would be left in place.
SPEAKER 05 :
And we talked about this before, Jordan, but I want to make sure I reiterate this because I am steadfast on this. And if I was Besant, I would be steadfast as well. And I would be telling the higher-ups of China this. And they’re dealing with somebody probably that’s much more diplomatic than I would, because I would be telling them, listen, I know in your culture, you got to save face and you got to do this and you got to do that. But here’s the reality. I’m your biggest customer and you need me more than I need you. So the bottom line is we either get a deal or I’m going to crush you. It’s one or the other.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, both sides get crushed.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, no, Jordan. We’ve talked about this before, and I know we’re off to agree to disagree. We have far more ability to outlast them than they do us.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, they are getting hurt right now. Again, we have 30% tariffs on Chinese products, so a lot of Americans are not buying things from China that they used to, of all types. Like what? Because I don’t believe that.
SPEAKER 05 :
Give me an example, because by the way, that 30% on an item that costs $10 raises it to $13. That’s being paid on the cost end of things. The retail price may not have changed at all, so the reality is, give me a product you’re giving me an example of, because I don’t see it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there’s tons of Chinese factories… that are dramatically cut their production because they don’t get orders from America anymore.
SPEAKER 05 :
And what I’m saying along those lines is in a lot of cases, and bear with me here, but in a lot of cases, Jordan, it’s crap. Literally, it’s crap we don’t need anyways. I’m sorry to say that, but in a lot of cases, it’s garbage that we can go without. That goes back to my point of we could easily crush China because a good portion of what we buy from them, we don’t need in the first place. I’ll give you one example, a strong example. Rare earth metal. That’s the only example you can give that I will agree with. The rest of it is garbage.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, people buying the stuff don’t think it’s garbage.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I get that, but it is. I mean, the reality is it is, and they will soon learn that, or they’ll have to pay a higher price one way or the other. You’re correct on the rare earth metal. One of the things that we as a country, by the way, have made dramatic, dramatic mistakes on in the past. We should have been developing our own over the years, and we have royally screwed up in that area.
SPEAKER 03 :
There was a big mine, I think, in Nevada that we had, and it went bankrupt. We should have told the environmentalists, you know, take a hike.
SPEAKER 05 :
We’re doing this.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. But there are other areas as well. But in return, our farmers are going to be hurt, are being hurt, by China shifting their purchases from American… wheat and grain and soybeans and so on to Canadian, Argentinian, Brazilian. And that’s going to be long-term. Our farmers are really going to be hurting by this. So both sides could hurt each other. To some extent, I mean, China exports about $600 billion to the U.S. We export about $140 billion to China. So yes, they have more to lose than we do. But both sides will be hurt. Both sides will be hurt. So I hope we can come to some kind of solution that would be really nice. because it has worldwide implications as well. These are the two largest economies in the world. And if they get into a fighting war, I mean a trade war, there’ll be less trade on both sides, and that affects all kinds of countries around the world.
SPEAKER 05 :
And again, I always go back to, and I’ll probably have to close with this, we are the largest customer in the world, and we have not played that hand well enough over the years. Shame on us. My customers, I’ll tell you this, Jordan, my largest customers play that hand with me constantly. If I’m somebody’s largest customer, I play that hand all the time. Why haven’t we as a country done that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Because there’s no alternatives in many cases. That’s the reason. Not true. China has so monopolized a lot of things.
SPEAKER 05 :
And by the way, had we done my method of this, we wouldn’t be there. They wouldn’t be that strong. We screwed up.
SPEAKER 03 :
But they have advantages, particularly low labor costs. They’re paying a tenth of what an American would pay for the same work. I’ll give you an example.
SPEAKER 05 :
Apple iPhones. You are correct, although, and you said it earlier, with robotics and AI, that will change, and they will no longer have that upper hand.
SPEAKER 03 :
So let’s give a good example. Apple iPhones. They’ve been made by Foxconn in China forever. Okay? Now, they’re moving some of the production. Where are they moving it? Not to Phoenix. They’re moving it to India. The labor source is even cheaper. If you had an iPhone made in America, today it might be $1,000. It would be like $3,500, something like that. That’s a pure example of the advantage that China has in lower labor costs. Not only labor costs, but the entire supply chain feeding into the Apple iPhone is unique. They couldn’t do it in America. It would take years to create that. So that’s another example where something is produced in China. We benefit because we get cheaper, you know, a thousand dollars. It’s not junk. It’s a real product. I agree with that. That’s one of the exceptions.
SPEAKER 05 :
Again, that is one of the exceptions, and there are a few. And I could list, you know, we could maybe next time you’re on, we could rattle off what some of those are. But all in all, I believe we have the upper hand, and I think it will end fine when it’s all said and done.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I hope so. I hope these negotiations, because if it breaks up, And we have to go back to high tariffs. That is a disaster for the world economy. That will cause a recession right there because these costs are going up dramatically. Or not being able to get the goods at all, which could happen. There are going to be shortages on shelves.
SPEAKER 05 :
We will see next month, but I predict that won’t happen.
SPEAKER 03 :
I hope not.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Until next time. How do folks find you, Jordan? They can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com.
SPEAKER 05 :
Appreciate you, Jordan, very much. Thank you, as always.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Thank you, man.
SPEAKER 05 :
Have a great rest of your day. Golden Eagle Financial coming up next, where if you want direct help when it comes to your future finances, talk to Al today. Find him at klzradio.com.
SPEAKER 15 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
All right, I will say that I just got probably the rudest text message I think I’ve ever gotten in my life on this program. And that’s basically somebody asking if those of us that sit in an air-conditioned office on the radio have ever been out in the heat and actually worked a quote-unquote real job. And my answer was, ha, you don’t know me very well, dude. Do you or me? I have spent countless hours and days out in the heat doing the things that we’re talking about. A lot of these people need to be doing so. A, you don’t listen to me very much. B, you should know by now that, yes, I have paid my dues over the years, more so than probably any host you’ll ever hear on the radio ever. We’ll be back in a moment. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 10 :
Bye. Bye.
