In this episode, as Andy Pate fills in for John Rush, the discussion is focused on the unexpected passing of Pope Francis and its implications for the Catholic Church and beyond. Joined by Luke Cashman, they delve into the political and spiritual legacy left by the Pope, reflecting on how his liberal stance and outspoken political views divided the Catholic community. The episode examines the reactions of Catholics and non-Catholics alike, providing insights into how Pope Francis’ approach reshaped perceptions of the church. Listeners are invited to weigh in, providing a multitude of perspectives on what the future holds
SPEAKER 08 :
This is Rush to Reason.
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SPEAKER 14 :
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SPEAKER 18 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 03 :
Filling in is Andy Pate, party of choice. And I’m your host, Andy Pate, filling in for John Rush. I’m joined today by Luke Cashman. And we are together, all of us, I believe, whether we’re Catholic or not, we are mourning the passing of Pope Francis. This really came as a surprise, didn’t it? Because, I mean, look, we knew that his health had been failing, but it sounded like he had really bounced back. And he was serving mass and he was functioning and he did a lot on Easter Sunday of all things. He even met with Vice President Vance and suddenly he was gone. Apparently he had a, I think a heart attack is what it was, I’m pretty sure, or a stroke. And boom, just like that and he is gone. Do you have any thoughts on this?
SPEAKER 09 :
Nothing personally. No, I mean, I was more surprised by it. I saw it, and at first, I guess kind of due to the state of things, I thought it was a joke at first, and then I saw it two or three more times. Like, oh, I guess it is real. I guess it did happen.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah, that’s true. Let’s face it, on social media, people will joke about anything.
SPEAKER 09 :
Especially right after Easter, it felt like it was a joke in poor taste.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. The timing of it was really shocking, right? The day after Easter. The day after Easter, the Pope passes on. And, you know, I really thought that Donald Trump, they put out a very good statement on this. Rest in peace, Pope Francis. May God bless him and all who loved him.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I thought that’s a nice response.
SPEAKER 03 :
I would echo that. Absolutely. But you know what? Luke, this really brings up some questions. Neither one of us is Catholic. So first of all, anyone who is Catholic who wants to weigh in on Pope Francis in any way, by all means do. Our number here is 303-477-5600. Or you can text us at 307-200-8222. John Rush should be able to relay that to me. But I want to talk a little bit about what does this mean for the Catholic Church? What is next? Because Pope Francis, as everybody knows, had charted a very unique course for the Catholic Church. Right. He was easily the most liberal pope we had ever seen. And he was not shy about his political views. Obviously, I don’t share his views, but I hold no hatred for the man because of that. Look, we have different views. That happens. That’s part of life. I’ve had good friends with whom, you know, we I’ve had very good friends where I’ve had different views. But this was different. And here’s what I mean. While I’m not a Catholic, I have never seen a pope in my life who caused so many of my Catholic friends who are conservative in nature or even in the middle of the road, middle of the road to conservative, right, to be upset. And they were very upset. No, they didn’t want him dead, but they wanted him to step down. They wanted him out of the position. And I’ve never seen that before. Usually, in my experience, Catholics basically fall in line. Whoever the pope is, they say, yeah, we may not always agree, but we’re always going to be totally supportive of the pope no matter what because it’s the pope, right? It’s almost like kids saying, I always support my parents even when I disagree with them. They’re my parents. And they would look at him as their great religious leader, which of course he was. He was a very kind man. OK, Pope Francis was very kind. He he cared for the poor. He was a Jesuit. He was from the streets, as they say. Right. Right. And that made him very interesting in that way. And so in a lot of ways, I think a lot of people really liked. The personality of the man, I think a lot of people got very angry at his political stances and the way he would inject himself into those things, especially in terms of America and immigration and so forth. That became a real problem. But what I’d never seen before. was so many of my friends who were Catholics saying, please, can we get a new one? I’ve not seen this in my life. And I’m saying this as a non-Catholic, folks. I’m just speaking as a non-Catholic here. I’d never heard that. I had seen very conservative popes. I’d seen very moderate popes. Right. Even maybe a touch left leaning. But I’d never seen a pope so divide the Catholics that I knew. Had you noticed this?
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s interesting. You know, you mentioned that you’ve seen a bunch of popes. I’ve only seen three popes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I mean, not just in my lifetime, but studying, you know, looking back. Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
I don’t have a lot of experience with popes. Right. I was I was seven years old when John Pope John Paul II was out. And then I was, you know, around, but wasn’t super paying attention for Benedict. What was he? Fourteen.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
And then I was, you know, I was a bit more aware of Pope Francis. as he came about. During those times, I was Catholic. I was raised Catholic for a majority of my life.
SPEAKER 03 :
I did not know that.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
I thought you were never a church guy.
SPEAKER 09 :
I was born and raised Catholic all the way up until sort of around high school, and then I deviated off.
SPEAKER 03 :
So we kind of went opposite directions.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes. We have the opposite life story, I think. Okay. Just about. And it’s interesting because I remember— You know, I mean, I was just starting in high school when Pope Francis came on, and as every high schooler is, is very opinionated. Even then, like in high school, I was hearing a lot of discourse. Either people really liked it or people really didn’t like it. I found, for the most part, people who were Catholic and sort of in the church weren’t too happy with it.
SPEAKER 03 :
They were stunned. They were shocked.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. People outside of Catholicism were like, you know, thank God for the change of pace. It was interesting to see non-Catholics take an interest in it because the Pope sort of mirrored their values more.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and wait a minute. What does that say, though, that non-Catholics like the fact that he made the Catholic Church less Catholic?
SPEAKER 09 :
It was interesting.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I don’t mean that he made it less elitist. Mm-hmm. he made it more of something that blends in yeah with society that is more accepting of i’ll just say it things that the bible would call sin okay it’s very interesting to see yeah it really was i i found very interesting that he would insert himself so much in the ways on america’s borders for instance i didn’t know why it mattered so much to him that america have these wide open borders OK, he never said word one when America and I know this sounds like I’m being negative, folks. I’m not OK. Honestly, the head of the Catholic Church is not a thing for me. I’m not Catholic. Right. It was just interesting to watch. I mean, there are there are people who opine with liberal viewpoints that I disagree with all the time. He was just one of them, one of many. But it was really interesting. He never said a word when Joe Biden allowed our country to be all out invaded. for four years to a degree that not only had never been seen, but had never been imagined. He never said a word. He was fine with that. He was absolutely fine with all these people pouring in to the United States, which, of course, has created a lot of problems. And then when Trump came in, he weighed in and was very upset that Trump was going to stop all that. I guess it just, look, you know, I’m MAGA, you know, and this guy was obviously very anti-MAGA. I’m just being honest. All right. I don’t hate the guy. I never did. I wished him well. I wished him long life. And by the way, he had a long life. He was 88. I wish it had been 98, 108, you know. But I’ve never seen any pope come out with these kinds of stances and basically look at America and basically say, All of these other countries should be able to send everybody they want there. And you need to open the doors to all of them with no limits whatsoever. And that’s how you should do it. And that’s how you should conduct your business. And there are a lot of Catholics I knew who are looking and just saying, will you please, will he please stop talking? Because they were very upset about this. Catholics actually voted pretty strongly for Donald Trump. And I just don’t know. I don’t know. I’ve never seen anything like this. And now looking forward, you wonder, what are they going to do next? Are they going to pick another one? Got to keep in mind that the guys who picked him in the first conclave are largely either they’re still around or their understudies are around. Right. It’s largely the same group, the group that decided to take the entire Catholic Church and go hard left. with this guy, because this guy was largely a Marxist. Okay. Very much so. And it’s going to be pretty much the same people who are going to be choosing the next one. And you wonder, are they going to choose another one like him? And if they do that, will a lot of people in the American Catholic Church leave? Because a lot of them, I got to be honest, I have Catholic friends and basically the way they’ve been looking at it is, well, let’s see what happens after this one leaves. You know, and they’re not even asking for some right winger MAGA guy to come in. They’re just asking for somebody who leaves the politics out of it. I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know what to expect. Do you have any idea?
SPEAKER 09 :
No, I don’t know what to expect. It’s so interesting, though, to see because the pope involving himself in politics is a very classical approach to being a pope, right? I mean, historically speaking, the pope was very involved in politics for a number of years.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, overseas, I guess so. How so? How so?
SPEAKER 09 :
Like historically, you go back to like the ancient Roman Empire. Oh, yeah. Like classically speaking.
SPEAKER 03 :
Gotcha.
SPEAKER 09 :
The pope as a political figure was kind of the standard for a proportionally huge chunk of time. And historically, relatively recently, they’ve been taking a more sort of hands-off approach. So to see a classical pope in politics as a sort of hearken back to ancient times is But to take that classical approach with very new quote-unquote ideas was very – it was like a weird direction to have seen things gone. It’s not something I would have anticipated. I’d say things are so out of left field at this point. I mean I could take a shot in the dark and probably be either very accurate or very far away because there’s no telling.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I mean, what is next for the Catholic Church? They’re at a crossroads right now. And this pope brought them to a crossroads because he divided them in ways that they had never seen before. Okay. And, you know, he knew what he was doing. Now, for those who don’t understand, just so you know, if people are thinking, well, everything the pope says is perfect. Folks, in terms of Catholic doctrine, that’s only when he’s speaking ex-cathedra, when he’s speaking for the church. That’s not when he’s talking about his politics. His politics are his own. His sports teams that he supports are his own. You see what I’m saying? He has his own life of his own, and that’s what the pope has always been. Catholics, at least in my understanding, don’t believe the pope is the next Jesus. They believe he is actually representing the next Peter, the head of the church, and that he has his own life and he has his own political views. And his political views are not necessarily the political views, right or left, of the church. Right? Right. But what’s the answer? What does the Catholic Church got to become next? You see… I’ll be honest. I mean, like you said, a lot of non-Catholics really embraced him and liked him.
SPEAKER 01 :
Why?
SPEAKER 03 :
Because he made the Catholic Church less Catholic. OK, talk of sin and death and hell and these things. Basically, he was a leftist. He was a hardcore liberal cleric and talk of sin, death, hell. These things kind of totally went by the wayside. I never heard any of that out of his mouth. And you kind of wonder what what what is the Catholic Church going to do next? Are they going to keep going to the left? Is the idea is the answer for the Catholic Church to simply become more and more and more like the rest of the world? And at that point, my question, I’m not a Catholic, but my question is, then why do we need the Catholic Church? We already have the rest of the world. So what’s the point?
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s a good question.
SPEAKER 03 :
Really? I mean, did you ever see the movie Dogma?
SPEAKER 09 :
No, I can’t say that I have.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, there was an image in there called Buddy Christ. OK, he’s your buddy. And it’s this positive image that the church was trying to put out. And no, Francis wasn’t like that. That was done satirically for fun. Right. By the way, it was a funny movie. OK, it was done for that reason. But I just wonder what is coming next for the Catholic Church. And I’ll sum it up with this. Sorry, folks, if I’m kind of grasping at my thoughts here, it’s such a strange dynamic that we’ve seen over the last several years with this pope. Once again, I’ve never seen this many American Catholics so angry at their own leadership. I’ve never seen anything like it. I don’t know what comes next. And if they continue, you’ve got largely the same kind of people who are going to choose the next pope. And if they choose another one who’s going in this direction… Could the entire church just split apart? Because it was almost like so much of the church was just waiting for him to not die, but step down.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, and pass along to another one. I don’t know what comes next. I don’t I don’t think they can keep going to the left as they were with with this pope and still be the church at some point, because at some point you’ve just become the world. I don’t know. I really don’t. And I think that that is the question right now that’s on a lot of Catholics’ minds. Obviously, they’re in mourning for the loss of this man because he was a good man. He was a kind man. I liked him personally, you know, just looking at him as a person.
SPEAKER 09 :
As a human being.
SPEAKER 03 :
As a human being, yeah. I liked him. Now, I didn’t like when he inserted himself politically, but, you know, that’s his life. He has a right to that. Right. I’m a believer in free speech, but I think a lot of Catholics are wondering what comes next. Hey, folks, for the rest of the first hour, if you want to call in and weigh in, we’re going to go off on other topics. But if you decide you want to call in at 303-477-5600 and weigh in on the Pope, if you are a Catholic and you can speak on this from the inside, because Luke and I are on the outside.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I haven’t been a Catholic for many years.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. We will divert from any topic that we’re on and listen to you. We’d love to hear you out because I would love to hear from fellow Catholics out there and see what do you think? What do you think right now? What do you think about this great loss of a great man? Because he was an inspirational man. But also, what do you think is next? Because I think that’s what’s on a lot of people’s minds. Sound good? Sounds great. Okay. Let’s take a break. We’ll come back and talk about some other things that are not Pope-related. Up next is Golden Eagle Financial. Prepare your financial future by maximizing your present with Al Smith. No one does it better, so call Al at 303-744-1128, or you can find him at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 08 :
God. Country. Reason. Now back to John Rush.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason. Denver’s Afternoon Rush. KLZ 560. Andy Pate filling in for John Rush along with Luke Cash. Man. Okay, Luke, let’s talk a little bit about immigration because while the Pope, of course, took a different view of that, and that’s okay, he took the view of the Biden administration. He did. Right. He wanted it wide open, let them all in, And that’s it. OK, setting him aside. That’s his view. Here’s what’s happening. And they were talking about this on CNN. I’m sure you’ve probably heard this clip before, but this is the guy on CNN who’s working the board. And he’s talking about the changes in the polling on this issue. Here we go.
SPEAKER 06 :
Deport all undocumented immigrants. Voters favoring the government trying to deport all 11 million of them. Back in 2016, just 38% of voters wanted the government to try to deport all 11 million undocumented immigrants. Compare it to where we are in 2025. Sixty-six percent, the majority, the American people have come a long way on this issue, much closer to Donald Trump, and I think that’s a big part of the reason why Americans are increasingly saying the country is on the right track when it comes to immigration policy and why Donald Trump’s net approval rating on that issue is in the positive.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, Luke, why do you think that is? I mean, we’re talking about eight years later, basically. It was really 2017 as Trump started his first term. And, I mean, that is an unbelievable 18-point jump. 18-point jumps in polling. You know me. I’m a polling nerd. Those are so rare, especially in a period of time that’s short. What happened?
SPEAKER 09 :
I think sort of immigration and its policies and people’s response to it is sort of a response you see a lot in a nation regarding just about anything. When people themselves, the people of a country, find themselves struggling more. When you or me or your neighbor is hurting more on groceries or hurting more in other places, it’s hard to look and have compassion outwardly.
SPEAKER 03 :
So you think they’re looking for scapegoats or do you think they’re look or they simply have less compassion? Do you think that their views on immigration have changed due to them having Americans becoming less compassionate?
SPEAKER 09 :
Maybe not less compassionate but more – as Americans struggle more, it’s less of a focus on other people, more of a focus on, OK, well, I need to make sure I’m good now. And with immigration as an issue, it’s hard to draw too much focus of we need to let these people in. We need to give them all these resources. We need to do X, Y, and Z for them when we’re struggling, right? I think it’s a harder sell.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and also, I mean, they’re breaking the law.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, look, Luke, you and I, we get up every day and we spend our entire lives not breaking laws. Yes. Okay. It’s very important to us. I’ve seen you in action. You don’t break laws.
SPEAKER 09 :
Famously.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And neither do I. They’re breaking the law simply by coming here. You’ve never invaded a country. You’ve never gone somewhere unlawfully or stayed somewhere unlawfully. You’ve never done this in your entire life. I think the fact that it was kept a low burn and a trickle coming in for so many years and then Biden unleashed the tidal wave, I think it brought it to the front of our minds. It’s like, wait a minute, this has always been illegal. It’s always been wrong.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. I’m all for legal immigration. My biggest problem actually with illegal immigration is that it backs up the system so badly that they have to slow down legal immigration. People can’t come through legally when the system’s already trying to absorb all these millions who came the other way, who jumped to the front of the line. Could it be that Americans are simply looking at this and saying, Guys, you’re invading us. I mean, this is a full invasion. And by the way, it’s not just 11 million who are in this country as well. It’s well north of 20 who are in this country illegally. And people are looking at and saying, guys, you know, we we don’t like you said, we don’t have the resources for this for our own lives to take care of our own lives.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. I think that’s a huge part of it. Like I said, people here in the country are so focused on making it through to the next paycheck themselves. It’s so much harder to make allowances, right? Maybe it would have flown if everyone was doing well, right? Sure. But everyone’s not doing well. And then this is sort of just another thing to add on top of it. It just feels very crushing. It’s like there’s too much going on.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and I think also, Luke, I mean, you look at the systems that are being overwhelmed. Look at the public schools are being overwhelmed with illegal immigrant kids. If you look at emergency rooms are being overwhelmed and that’s affecting everybody, your tax dollars are going into that. And then, of course, there’s illegal immigrant crime. All right. And you can say, well, you know, on average, they don’t commit crimes at a higher rate. Yes, but every one of their crimes is an added crime. We already pay our taxes to try to support the cops and support the people, the first responders in place to handle the crimes that are already going to be committed by the citizens we have here. Right. Every added crime overloads that system.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And so that’s the problem. When you look at an illegal immigrant crime, especially when it’s one of these terrible ones, rape, murder, and so forth, those horrible examples. Well, when an American citizen commits one of those things, it is a horrible tragedy. But when an illegal immigrant commits one of those things, that wouldn’t have happened had we simply enforced the law in the first place.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. It feels very comparable.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, you can’t prevent… Right. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 09 :
I was going to say it feels very comparable almost like from a pure numerical standpoint, this idea that it’s also hard to justify excessive expenditure in other countries when our own country is hurting so much. Right. I don’t want to pay for underwater basket weaving studies in Libya, right? You know, I can’t afford groceries. I don’t want to pay for the consequences of this action when I’m already struggling to afford eggs.
SPEAKER 03 :
You don’t want to pay tens and tens and tens of billions of dollars securing Ukraine’s border when ours is wide open.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
It doesn’t make any sense.
SPEAKER 09 :
It feels like priorities are off. It feels like they’re not focusing enough on the American people and over-focusing on not the American people.
SPEAKER 03 :
Is America first as a mindset? Is it selfish or is it realistic?
SPEAKER 09 :
I think to a certain extent it has to be both because, I mean, when you go America first, obviously that is by definition in self-interest, right? But I don’t think that’s a wrong thing either. I think a country focusing on its own issues predominantly shouldn’t be looked at in the negative.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah. I mean, Luke, when you go – you and your girlfriend, you go to the store. Right. You’re buying for you two. You’re not buying for the rest of the city. Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
How selfish of you. Yeah. No, no. You’re tending to your needs. You’re tending to your lives because that’s your responsibility.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. It’s like, you know, fix the termite infestation in your own house first before building a fence for your neighbor. I just feel like that should be the standard.
SPEAKER 03 :
I agree. And especially when you’re talking about a country that’s pushing 38 trillion in debt.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. It’s like we’re already hurting.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. We really can’t afford.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s a numbers thing, too. It is. It is just the numbers.
SPEAKER 03 :
And that’s not cold and harsh because let’s take a step back here for a moment. What if you ignore the numbers and say, no, no, no, no, no. Let’s give, you know, all this public assistance and food stamps and, you know, homes, which, by the way, they have in many states in this country, including this one. They’ve been giving all kinds of tax funded breaks and benefits to people who are here illegally. People who are not even supposed to be here. People who have done something you and I have never done. Invade a country. I mean, we’ve never done that.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’ve never.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’ve watched you closely. I have drones everywhere you go in life. As you should. And they have not seen you invade a country or go anywhere and stay there illegally. You’ve never done it in your life. People act like that is some normal thing. If it’s so normal, how come we don’t do it? Right. It’s not normal. But… When we look at this and we see these politicians saying, okay, we have to give, give, give, give, give, give to these people. I take a look at them and I say, you do realize we are charging our entire economy right now on our kids’ credit cards. Right. That $38 trillion, it’s not going to be paid by me, Luke. I’m old. I’m nearly gone. I could go any moment. And it’s going to be paid by people who are like you or younger. And they’re going to pay, and they’re going to pay with tremendous interest, and it’s going to cripple their economy. And I look at these political leaders, and I say, how can you say that they should cripple the economy of their children for people who have come here committing an illegal act?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, is that out of whack? It shouldn’t be. Yeah. Now, by the way, I’m all for work visas.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. Right. Being anti-illegal immigration doesn’t mean anti-immigration. Oh, no. Those two get conflated a lot.
SPEAKER 03 :
I love immigration. And by the way, I believe that here’s what’s going to happen. And we’ll go to break after this. I believe that Trump’s efforts in trade will eventually result in a dramatic upsurge in hiring. We’re going to have way more companies investing so much more in our country. They’re already talking five to seven trillion in promised investment in our country. That’s a lot of jobs. OK, people got to take those jobs. And then what do you need? You need more people to do work either at those jobs and in factories or at other jobs that are vacated by the people who go into those jobs. Right. Bottom line, you’re going to need bodies. You’re going to need more people. And guess where you can get those immigrants. OK. And so I would look at these people and I would say, hey. Work visas. Do it legally. There’s a thing called a port of entry. Use it.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, and if you’re here illegally, okay, tell you what. Get on the grid. Agree to. Go back out. And this is what the Trump administration is saying. You go back out, but if you do it honestly, up front with us now, guess what? You can be brought back. You come back on a work visa, and you can be back part of the system again. We just don’t want you to stay here under the radar breaking the law. What do you think?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I think it makes sense. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t know. I really think that something needs to be done. Oh, by the way, tell you what, after the break, I want to talk about a New Mexico judge.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
And you’re thinking, why would I want to talk about this? Because it pertains to immigration. And this is something, here’s the big frustration with me, Luke. The other side, when it comes to immigration, is absolutely lawless. They want no law. And they don’t respect the law. And we’re about to talk about a judge who feels exactly the same. All right. Let’s take a break. Up next is Dr. Scott Faulkner. He doesn’t serve big pharma. He only serves you for a total approach to your total health. Call Dr. Scott at 303-663-6990.
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SPEAKER 08 :
The best export we have is Common Sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Okay, Luke, this happened in Fremont County, Colorado. Okay. Just very recently. Last month in Fremont, a mostly rural county southwest of Colorado Springs. Do you know where that is? No, I can’t say I’m super familiar. It is gorgeous down there. I’ll take your word for it. Okay, well, a couple of Fremont County detectives, they noted a van passing them without dimming headlights, and so they initiated a stop. What they found was eye-opening, around 180,000 rounds of ammunition. OK, well, you’re a gun guy. So hang on and listen to this, because here’s what these people said. Martinez Solis, he’s one of the people pulled over. He told authorities that he and Amador Garcia, whom he claimed was his brother in law, had traveled from Mexico to Denver a day earlier to purchase a vehicle before driving to Salt Lake City to look at another vehicle he was interested in buying. In Salt Lake City, the men stopped at a firearms and ammunition store where Armador Garcia bought the ammunition, according to the affidavit. Solis further explained that he did not know the intent. with the ammunition, but that he believed it was destined for Pueblo. He didn’t know the intent. They bought this. So he believed it was destined for Pueblo, the affidavit stated. Pueblo is a city in Colorado. Okay, this is a story from Red State. This much ammunition, I mean, look, you are a gun guy, okay? Yeah. Isn’t that a lot to buy? Help me out here. 180 rounds?
SPEAKER 09 :
180,000 rounds. Does it say what kind of ammo it is? Not that it super matters.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. It breaks it down here in just a second. Hang on. Okay, it looks like there were two kinds. 7.62 ammo?
SPEAKER 09 :
7.62, okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, and which is roughly equivalent, they say, to the .308 Winchester?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, it’s 7.62 by, I mean, I’m sure it’ll say what it is. That’s usually like AK-47 is what you’re looking at for 7.62. Okay, AK-47.
SPEAKER 03 :
stuff is is rounds for an ak-47 typically because there were 150 boxes of the 308 ammunition okay and approximately 30 boxes of um the 762 okay okay each box uh containing roughly a thousand rounds what does that tell you
SPEAKER 09 :
That tells you you’re paying a lot of money. For reference, the average cost of about a 7.62 round is 55 cents. So 180,000 rounds of ammo times 55 cents a round is you’re paying almost 100 grand for ammo. That’s $99,000 worth of ammo. How much? $99,000 worth of ammo.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, 100 grand of ammo?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
And they’re transporting this in their van.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I don’t have $100,000 to blow on ammo, and I’m a pretty big gun enthusiast. I don’t know many people who have $100,000 to blow on ammo.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, well, needless to say, Homeland Security is involved, along with the Denver Field Office of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, just so I’d say it all. Okay, I think there’s probably going to be more charges here. I mean, wouldn’t you? Doesn’t this sound like it’s going to either cartel or gang-related activity?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like it’s going somewhere.
SPEAKER 03 :
It sounds like you’re arming up.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I mean, you could put all that in your garage for a rainy day, I guess. But, you know, I don’t—I mean, where are you even storing all that?
SPEAKER 03 :
There’s no mention of them even showing, you know, where they bought it. The guy who wrote this article says nobody’s really going to sell that much all at once. They probably had to go to several stores.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. 180,000 rounds of ammo is an absurd amount of ammo to have on hand.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so you would suspect that they went to several stores. I think you’d have to.
SPEAKER 09 :
Unless you went to a Walmart super center or a Costco equivalent of a gun store.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
I don’t know of any Costco gun stores. If you do know one, let me know. I want to go. But I’ve never seen them.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, I don’t want to call you, oh, my gosh, this is two Hispanic people. It must be Trend de Aragua. I’m not saying that. I don’t know what they’re doing.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s a lot of money, though.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s a lot of money, and it’s a lot of ammo. Where are you taking it? And this has not been discovered yet. And this idea, they’re saying they bought it at a place. Really? Where? You know, receipt?
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Can you tell us the place? And I assume this is what the Homeland Security is looking into. Okay, tell us the place. We’re going to go to the place. We’re going to ask them, did you sell this much to these two guys? Here’s their pictures. Here’s their identities. What do you think is going to come of this?
SPEAKER 09 :
I don’t know what’s going to come of it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because this is down in Fremont is where they got them.
SPEAKER 09 :
The thing I fear, you said they, well, something to consider. And, I mean, I haven’t read the article. I have nothing. This is fully speculative.
SPEAKER 03 :
There are two Mexican nationals in the U.S. on non-immigrant visas.
SPEAKER 09 :
Grains of rice and all that. Right. Not grains of rice. Grains of sand and salt or whatever. Yeah, yeah. What if they didn’t buy it here and they are bringing it up from somewhere else to deliver to someone here?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
I think the current implication is they bought it all here and are bringing it down. What if it’s the other way around?
SPEAKER 03 :
I agree. I mean, it could be, right?
SPEAKER 09 :
I mean, we simply don’t know. There’s not enough information. But something to keep in mind.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think that’s pretty scary, man. I think that’s pretty scary, and I kind of wonder, you know, what comes next. If they’re moving that much, it just sounds to me like there was going to be some real serious shooting going on.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, 180,000 rounds of ammo.
SPEAKER 03 :
And those are for AKs.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s crazy. Yeah, 7.62×39 is typically what you’re using in an AK-47. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, when we come back, I want to talk about Iowa, because Iowa just passed a law that I actually like. Okay. Sound good? Sounds good. All right. Up next is Cub Creek Heating and Air. Hey, their techs don’t work on commission, so there’s no upsell. I hate upsells, don’t you? No. They come, you get this like little clip coupon, whatever, and they come and then they find 10 other things. Right. And they work it all in. Okay, they don’t do that at Cub Creek. For the best in heating and air conditioning repair, call Cub Creek at 303-656-5467.
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SPEAKER 08 :
Now back to Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Online, we’ve got Jersey Joe. Joe, what are your thoughts on this, sir?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, which one of your co-hosts is the gun nut today? Because I’m a gun nut too. Luke. Luke is a gun nut. How are you? All right, good. Yourself? I’m doing good, thank you. If you ever watch these shows like Contraband Seized at the Border or To Catch a Smuggler, one of the things they always catch you, there’s two things they catch being smuggled into Mexico. One is money, which is the proceeds from drug sales, and the other are guns and ammunition. Guns and ammunition are tightly, tightly controlled in Mexico today. And there’s a huge market, you know, people are just trying to, I mean, if you can smuggle 10 boxes of ammo into Mexico, you can sell it for, you know, 10 times what you paid for it. So I suspect it was bound for the drug lords in Mexico.
SPEAKER 03 :
Probably, but that’s bad. That’s bad. Now, Joe, Joe, really quick here before you run on. Why is it so tightly regulated down there when you think about it? Because you’re talking about a government that works almost hand in hand with the cartels, which are criminal organizations. I mean, why would, of all things, ammunition be tightly regulated?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, New York and they passed it. I’ve got I’ve got a friend that lives. He moved down there 10 years ago. He’s still a U.S. citizen and he’s an avid shooter. But, you know, he said, forget trying to buy a gun or ammunition in Mexico. It’s just not available to the ordinary citizens. Now, if you’re corrupt, you know, and you’re bribing the police chief, yeah, you can get anything you want. But legally, you can’t. Citizens in Mexico can’t legally buy guns or ammunition. Just impossible.
SPEAKER 03 :
So basically, when gun ownership is a crime, only criminals have guns.
SPEAKER 05 :
Only criminals have guns. Now, 308 is a big rifle round. It was used by the military in the M14. It’s also used in the A-10s. which is the big brother of the AR-15. The A-10 can handle a larger caliber round than the AR-15, which, by the way, shoots a little diminutive, the .223 round, really .22 caliber round, the .308. Now, the 7.62 interest, there’s two different 7.62s. One is the 7.62×51, which is the NATO rifle round, which is the equivalent of the .308, which can be used interchangeably, but I suspect The 7.62s were the 7.62×39, which is used in, Luke, what’s the 7.62×39 used in?
SPEAKER 09 :
The AK-47s.
SPEAKER 05 :
AK-47 submachine gun. So I suspect the 7.62s, if you’re going to, you can’t, you can’t, I don’t think, fire the .308, rifles for the .308 are not that common. AK-47s, you know, are a dime a dozen. It’s the most widely produced gun in the history of the world. So I suspect the 7.62s were for the AK-47, which is not a long-range round. It’s a rifle round, but it’s good for 100, 150 yards, whereas the .308 is good for 500 yards. So I suspect it was a lot of AK-47 ammunition, which is one of the favorite weapons of the cartels. It’s a cheap gun. You can buy it. five ak-47s for the price of one m14 so basically they were transporting this they were basically arming the cartels that would i that if i had to bet bet my house i would bet they were going to try to smuggle it into mexico uh you know to help arm the cartels supply ammunition to the cartels apparently as uh charlie was saying they opened the van and it was top to bottom yeah there’s a picture i’ve got a new york post there’s a picture how do the shocks handle that Custom suspension. Yeah. No, there’s actually a picture. It’s floor-to-ceiling, wall-to-wall. Just Google 180,000 rounds of ammunition, and you’ll see the picture. I can actually send it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, but okay, but wait a minute here. We’ve got a couple minutes left here. I mean, if you load up a van that much, Luke, I’m going to ask you first, then you, Joe, isn’t that going to be really riding low? I mean, doesn’t that stick out like a sore thumb to the cops? Yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
Like I said, it would. I made a joke about the custom suspension previously. But that is what you do when you’re smuggling people across the border, is you intentionally raise the suspension on the rear of the vehicle so when you pack it full of people, it lowers to a normal level. So very possible. I mean, if you’re running 100 grand worth of ammo, chances are you know at least a little bit of what you’re doing. I don’t think a suspension could handle that much ammo unless you had it raised in some capacity.
SPEAKER 03 :
But enough about how Luke spends his weekends.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Joe, go ahead.
SPEAKER 05 :
And I suspect, by the way, it’s unfortunate, but they arrested last week, they arrested a couple of border agents for collusion and some smuggling of people across the border or drugs across the border. So I suspect, I don’t think they gambled that they weren’t going to get inspected. I suspect that they probably have a border agent on the payroll and they’re going to try to cross the border at 11 o’clock at night. and just pay this guy $10,000 to look the other way.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think that that would be incredibly lucrative for any border agent willing to look the other way.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yep. And that’s why they just arrested two of them last week. Now, again, I don’t want to diminish – I have great respect for – there are tens of thousands of people who work for Customs and Border Patrol, and I admire them for what they do. But in any group, whether they be police officers or whatever, you’re always – It’s not hard to find one half of one percent who are willing to betray their oath.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yeah. Joe, I mean, who hates a bad cop the most? Other cops. Good cop. Yeah. So trust me, there are plenty of great cops and I think they’re doing a fantastic job on the border. But you’ve got to understand you still have remnants of the Biden people who are in there. And those are people who why wouldn’t they look the other way? They weren’t enforcing it anyway.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yep. All right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Joe, are you going to be back in Hour 3?
SPEAKER 05 :
I will be back on at 5 o’clock. Talk to you then, Andy. Sounds like a lot of fun.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right.
SPEAKER 05 :
Take care.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, folks, that’s it for Hour 1 and Hour 2. It’s going to be more with me and Luke. And then Richard Rush is going to join me to talk about the Broncos going shopping. Ooh, shopping. It’s shopping time. It’s NFL draft time. Until then, keep it right here on Rush Reason, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 04 :
The Average Guy’s Ordinary Average Guy.
