John Rush and his co-hosts dive into the concept of merit-based pay versus the idea of a ‘living wage.’ They share anecdotes and listener opinions while discussing the implications of such economic concepts on the service industry. Through a series of engaging dialogues, they explore whether businesses should rely on tipping or adopt a merit-based system, touching on the potential impact of these practices on business and consumer expectations. Tune in for a lively discussion that challenges common beliefs about income, responsibility, and fairness in the workplace.
SPEAKER 04 :
This is Rush to Reason.
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With your host, John Rush.
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It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush, presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 18 :
Okay, hour number three, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate, Charlie Grimes, and I got an article I was going to talk about last hour, but we got to talking about all sorts of other things, which is fine. And this is out of Fox News, although it’s a survey. So Fox picked it up, so did several other outlets along these lines. Americans are fed up with the tipping culture as nearly 9 out of 10 say it’s completely out of control. So 83% of Americans back banning automatic service charges amid tipping fatigue. And you know what? I can’t say as I blame them. I feel the same way.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. Now, what are some of the tipping practices that bug you the most?
SPEAKER 18 :
When someone stands there and fills your order at a counter, when I did all of the work asking for what I wanted, all they did was put it in the machine, they spin it around and want a tip for handing me a bag.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 18 :
I won’t tip in that case. It’s zero.
SPEAKER 07 :
I was thinking more of the little thing on the screen that tells you, okay, now are you going to give this much, this much, this much?
SPEAKER 18 :
Unless the service is super poor, I’m a 20, if it’s really good, 25% tipper. So I’m a 20% across the board tipper as long as the service is good.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. If it’s good.
SPEAKER 18 :
And I don’t need anybody to tell me that because I can do math.
SPEAKER 07 :
I go a little higher. If I like the service, I’ll go 30.
SPEAKER 18 :
Now, keep in mind, I’m probably a little higher than that, Andy, because I’m tipping on the whole, not just the meal itself. I’m tipping on whatever the taxes and whatever other nonsense is on there. I’m looking at the total. I’ll go 20% and off I go, which means I’m probably more like 22% or 23% when it’s all said and done.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. I mean, look, I like tipping, all right?
SPEAKER 18 :
I do, too.
SPEAKER 07 :
Every Thursday night, right, I go to the theater, they bring me food, I tip the person who brings it. But I look around, not many people do. Not many people in the audience are tipping.
SPEAKER 18 :
Interesting.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay? And it’s not like they’re pestering and asking for a tip. They’re very nice. They don’t do any of that. But there are places where it really… It really angers me, John, because you’ve got once again, you’re talking about places where they’ve barely done any work.
SPEAKER 18 :
Right. And you never think, by the way, you never tipped that before. Right. You know, you go to Burger King, for example, and that’s not the exact, you know, but that type of atmosphere whereby you put your order in, they give you your food in the bag and you leave and you never tipped at Burger King ever. But now the screen’s getting turned around for you to tip.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. I mean, I always tipped some like at a Starbucks, but that’s because the same person, I always see them. They go back and they make it and they put together this creation or whatever and they come back. I always threw a couple bucks their way. But there are places that are now pushing for it.
SPEAKER 18 :
What about Subway? They’re making your sandwich. Did you ever tip at a Subway?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes. I’m a tipper.
SPEAKER 18 :
See, I never tipped at a Subway. Just whatever the sandwich is, that’s what it costs. I figure that’s all factored in. It’s sort of like Burger King, and I never tip.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, I understand. I just did.
SPEAKER 18 :
But now, you know, the screen’s getting flipped around, and now it’s sort of expected.
SPEAKER 07 :
But I’m also one of those people who says, okay, I want more of this, less of that.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, that’s, and I’m not. I’m just like, make the sandwich, and I’m good to go. I don’t care.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, and I’d ask, but no, I’d always throw them a couple few bucks.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, yeah, and I’m one where, okay, yeah, if you’re making them do extra things for you, sure, you should throw them a couple bucks or so. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. But what really gets me, John, is the pushiness of it. I think that that’s what people are sick of, is the pushiness of it. What do you think?
SPEAKER 18 :
um i’m getting text messages along those same lines and yes i think and that’s this whole idea of the articles it used to be you tipped at you know restaurants bars hair salons and some places like that’s funny we had this conversation i had a conversation last night with a couple of friends of mine uh some of our best friends along these same lines talking about this whole tipping obligation and you know what industries should you get tipped at versus ones you shouldn’t get tipped at for example i worked on cars all of my life I still coach auto shops and so on. Don’t own them anymore, but for years and years and years did. I mean, I can count on one hand how many tips I got over all the years working on somebody’s car.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right.
SPEAKER 18 :
It’s just not part of the norm.
SPEAKER 07 :
But haircuts, I always tip.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah. Okay, so I guess the question is why?
SPEAKER 07 :
I don’t know. I just always did. Well, with a haircut now, that is the entire experience is that one person taking care of me, doing the entire thing. So that’s not just somebody taking an order and then a bag comes to them and they hand it to me.
SPEAKER 18 :
Okay. So what other places bug you that they ask you to tip at?
SPEAKER 07 :
Hmm. I hadn’t really thought about it.
SPEAKER 18 :
We were having this conversation again last night kind of talking about, you know, the tipping and how it is funny. I just don’t like the way they do it. Then I read this article this morning right after talking about it last night. I’m like, okay, I’m putting this in the notes today because it’s a good topic.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I don’t like the way they do it. That’s the biggest thing, the screens.
SPEAKER 18 :
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER 07 :
Where it comes on the screen and it prompts you to do this much, this much, this much. What really gets me, John, is that there will be places where they’ll show three different tips. And one will have a frowny face. One will have a straight line for the mouth. And then the other one has a happy face for the biggie. Now, I understand you could say, well, what they’re saying is if you’re really happy with the service, there you go.
SPEAKER 18 :
If it’s mediocre, here it is. If you’re angry, here it is.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right. If I’m angry, you’re not getting anything. But that’s not the way it comes off, John. The way it comes off is you’re going to make us really happy if you tip this, and you’re not going to make us happy if you tip. You’re being pushy. Hey, guess what? Don’t say a word. Don’t print a word. Don’t put anything on a screen. Don’t do a thing, and I’ll do my thing. I like to feel, here’s the big thing, John. Here’s what it comes down to. I like to feel that I’m giving out of the goodness of my heart, not being pushed.
SPEAKER 18 :
I agree. Yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
It doesn’t feel good to give when being pushed.
SPEAKER 18 :
That’s why I hate the little screen flip around where it’s like expected that you’re going to do something on there. And if you do zero, they’re going to look at you like, oh, you’re a moron.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, maybe I am, but I’m keeping my money.
SPEAKER 07 :
I mean, look, there are still these stories, right? And there was one that went around on Facebook, golly, about a month ago, I don’t know. And it was awful. And this person was actually kind of bragging that they had a $1,500 bill at this place because it was for a group and it was a party, you know, and there was drinking and so forth, right? They tipped $25, right? And they said, yeah, because the amount of, you know, the expense of what we got has, you know, shouldn’t change. Your workload was the same. All you did was bring us the food. And we did $25. And they said, and apparently the waitress or the server got very angry. I didn’t know that. Overtly angry. Now, I think that’s unprofessional. I don’t think you should do that. But let me tell you something. I’m with the waitress. Are you kidding me? You can afford to put down $1,500? $1,500 you’re putting down. This is obviously a big thing, right? Hook them up.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, that should be a $300 tip.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, that’s what I was saying.
SPEAKER 18 :
That’s 20% to $300 tip.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I said the exact same thing.
SPEAKER 18 :
And if you’re not planning on that on the front side, then don’t go there.
SPEAKER 07 :
I said right on the thing I would have put down $300.
SPEAKER 18 :
If not, then go somewhere else. You should know on the front side what it’s going to be.
SPEAKER 07 :
If they made me super happy like they were doing incredible things, I’d toss an extra $50.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, and typically speaking, if you’re that large of a group, there’s extra people there even helping in the background, so that $300 doesn’t even go all to that one person. They’re splitting that up.
SPEAKER 07 :
One person does not on their own make $1,500 worth of serving happen.
SPEAKER 18 :
No, you end up with lots of people involved in that.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. Bartender, everybody making the drinks.
SPEAKER 18 :
That’s exactly right.
SPEAKER 07 :
That is ridiculous. So don’t get me wrong. It goes both ways. I don’t like being pestered and pushed for the tip because it makes it no more fun to give the tip. True. Okay. But by the same token, these people who are proudly give these terrible tips, I look at them and say, you suck.
SPEAKER 18 :
I agree with you on that one. No, I agree with you, Andy, wholeheartedly. The point of this article is, and this is for some of you out there listening, where you’re in this end of things. You may own some businesses along these lines or own a business along those lines. Here’s what’s happening, though. You’re reaching the, sorry for the expression here, but you’re reaching the tipping point of killing off your folks that tip because you’re putting them on overload. Stop. If you guys don’t stop, it’s going to get to the point where you’re going to go the other direction on tips.
SPEAKER 05 :
I think it will.
SPEAKER 18 :
You’re right there. Again, you’re at the tipping point right now of moving things over the top to where they’re no longer going to want to tip.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, John, you’re talking over 80%.
SPEAKER 18 :
83% of Americans are tired.
SPEAKER 07 :
Keep in mind, John, that a good percentage of Americans get tips where they work. That’s right. Okay. And those people are probably going to put down that they are not tired of tipping culture. So that 83% is probably 95% of everybody left. Yeah. Think about that.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah. And somebody says the business should be paying a living wage. You know, no, I disagree.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, no.
SPEAKER 18 :
I disagree with that. And here’s why I disagree with that, because that’s a stupid term. Because living wage is different for everybody. So I hate that term. I’ve even corrected some of my own family members at times that use that term because that’s a stupid term. And the reason I say that is because it’s different for everyone. Living wage for one person is different for another. It depends on what your expenditures are, how many kids do you have, what part of town do you want to live in, what car do you want to drive. You get my drift here? In other words, living wage is a movable target.
SPEAKER 07 :
John, and what did you just take out? The most capitalist thing in the world, merit.
SPEAKER 18 :
Right.
SPEAKER 07 :
See, the entire idea of preferring tips over just a living wage, which is obviously a lie. Right. There’s no such thing. Look, I guarantee you if you gave everybody the wages that that texter probably wants people to have, guess what? All your costs everywhere you go would go through the roof. Correct. You wouldn’t be able to afford anything going out anymore. That’s right. Okay. I like merit-based pay.
SPEAKER 08 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I have had servers who were awful. I’ve had servers who were wonderful. Most do a really good job, by the way. Most do a really good job. I agree with that. Most do. I want to take care of that person. I want to honor them. That’s right. I want to reward them.
SPEAKER 18 :
I want to honor them. That’s right. I look at the tip, and I use that word. I look at that tip as I want to honor you with some extra, and I’m going to pad that in this way, and off we go. And again, the other term really quick, living wage is one that always bugs me. Here’s the other one that always bugs me. Oh, they make really good money. Okay, according to whom? Because, again, good money, putting air quotes around good money, for one, good money might be $50,000 a year. For somebody else, it might be $150,000 a year. There can be a huge disparity even in what’s good money. That’s why I like facts. What are they making? What’s the hourly wage? What’s the take-home at the end of the day? How well do they do with their tips and so on? I mean, at the end of the day, folks, and I know some people this way. In fact, I know a lady, a really good friend of mine. She has a really great job in an industry here locally that I will not say because I don’t want to throw her under the bus, and some other people that are listening to me might know who I’m talking about, so I don’t want to do that, but has a really good job, makes really good money. But because has other expenditures, and I won’t get into because it would also give some the idea of who she is, but there’s other expenditures in her life. So what she does is she works another job. Outside of the job she has now. Now, Andy, I’ll just tell you straight up. Does she have to work the second job? No. Does she want to? Yes. Does she make a pretty good living in the second job? Yes, she does.
SPEAKER 08 :
Good for her.
SPEAKER 18 :
Thank you. Absolutely. My point is, she double dips. She does really well. Good for her.
SPEAKER 07 :
What’s wrong with that?
SPEAKER 18 :
Nothing. She does great.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. You know, I don’t understand this whole idea of trying to get merit out of the system. Everybody wants a living wage, hates merit.
SPEAKER 18 :
I can’t disagree with you.
SPEAKER 07 :
We want that guaranteed what we would think is a living wage. Really, by the way, this person has no kids. That person has two. Guess what? Their living wage is totally different.
SPEAKER 18 :
That’s exactly right.
SPEAKER 07 :
And it has nothing to do with the steak that they just brought to you at your table. That’s right.
SPEAKER 18 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
Putting reason into your afternoon drive. This is John Rush.
SPEAKER 18 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate. John and Cheyenne, you’re next. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hey, guys. How are you?
SPEAKER 18 :
I’m good.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hey, John. So when it comes to tipping, first thing I do, if it’s less than $20, wherever it is, I’m paying cash. I don’t want them to spin that stupid terminal around in my face.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 10 :
You know. And then, so I, the example I use is you’re at the airport, you go to the, you’re in a terminal and you go to Dunkin’ Donuts and you grab a coffee and a donut cause you got, you know, 45 minutes before the flight.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 10 :
I drink black coffee. So I order a black coffee and a donut and I hand them a 20 and they give me the change. I’m going to throw whatever silver they give me in the cup just so I don’t have it in my pocket.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 10 :
But pour me a cup of black coffee and pull a donut out of the case and You’re getting paid a salary. Does that deserve a tip?
SPEAKER 18 :
Very small one, in my opinion.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, that’s why I look at it. That gets the change. The reverse is, my wife and I went out to dinner last night. Really good service. It’s a regular restaurant we go to all the time, so the food’s always really good. And the check was $79.80. So it was $80. And I like to always tip in cash instead of putting it on my card. just so they don’t have to worry about paying anybody else. And I didn’t have a lot of change. I just gave her a 20 and a tip, which I thought was a good tip. It was like 25%, but the service was worth it. But I have been known to tip as little as 10% if the service stinks.
SPEAKER 07 :
Now, John, really quick here, really quick before you run on from there, was this place in Cheyenne?
SPEAKER 10 :
Laramie.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, it’s in Laramie. For people who go up that way, where do they go in Laramie and get a good meal?
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, it’s called Altitude Chop House and Brewery. All right. It’s terrific. The service is always good. Laramie is one of those towns that you get great service because it’s a college town. And this girl was a young college kid, probably, you know, not trying to go into super debt. And I thought the service was great. But we’ve been going to this place for 20 years and never had bad service. Cool. Or bad food. And, you know, what was – but there’s other places in Laramie that are pretty good. But if the service is great, but the other thing I do – and, Andy, you were in kind of this business. Yeah. If I’m leaving a bad tip, I’m telling the manager on the way out why. Because – I’ve done it. You know. The manager needs to know if you’ve got crap service.
SPEAKER 07 :
And by the way, John, I’ve gone the other way, too. I have also pulled a manager aside and told him how much somebody wowed me. Agree. I’ve done that a number of times.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, I’ve done that, too.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, yeah. I’ll go both ways. Yeah, on that. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 10 :
The reason, though, I carry cash, well, I carry cash to carry cash, but that under, you know, if I’m ordering at the counter and you’re handing me a bag to go, why do you deserve a tip? Great question. You go to McDonald’s, say, and now they have, if you pay with a card at McDonald’s, they have a tip thing. I’m going to McDonald’s. Why am I tipping you? You’re not.
SPEAKER 18 :
I’ve never tipped McDonald’s, nor will I. That’s a whole different business model. No, me either. I’m not tipping at McDonald’s. Sorry. No.
SPEAKER 10 :
It seems like every fast food place, except for Chick-fil-A, is now asking for that ability to tip, whether it’s Five Guys or… Freddy’s or whatever, it seems like it’s more that people want to tip. Where in the old days, I’m a little older than you guys, growing up, you tipped in a restaurant. The one place I over-tipped because they work hard and their tips aren’t as good is breakfast places. Because even if you go in and it’s $35, well, 20% of $35 is $7. Maybe I’ll leave $8 or $9 because… She’s usually working pretty hard in a diner.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s a good point. That really is. You’re right, because breakfast food is a lot cheaper for the work.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, it is. Usually they’re working harder because how many times you go to a breakfast place and wait just to swing by three or four times to top off your coffee cup if you’re a coffee drinker?
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, John, I’d even go a step further. I don’t recall going to a breakfast place where the waiter or waitress weren’t running their tails off.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. What I like is the place that you go where you order your coffee, and then they bring out your coffee plus a pot, so they don’t have to run. You can refill it from the table. Those are usually a good tip place. Yeah. Yeah, this tipping thing has gotten out of control.
SPEAKER 18 :
Really quick, I just want to jump in. The breakfast thing, John, fully agree with you on that one. You’re typically – not that you’re getting more service then than you are at an evening meal, but typically breakfast is, hey, I like the meal. There’s a lot of things going on. They’re refilling this. They’re doing that. There’s just a lot going on. And, yeah, I’m one that I typically will do a little bit more on the breakfast side of things than I would lunch, let’s say. Now, dinner, depending upon where you’re at, that’s a whole other ballgame.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, yeah, that – Well, it depends. I look at it, 20% was, it used to be 15 when we were younger. It’s gone to 20. I started 20.
SPEAKER 18 :
Shoot, John, when we were younger, it was 10 when we were kids.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, maybe.
SPEAKER 18 :
It was. I mean, when I first started, I mean, I’m not joking. When I first started, and granted, I was a weird kid because I worked and had money, and I’d take my girlfriends to decent places when I was even 16, 17 years of age. But 10 was, if you got really good service, 10 was the standard. If you wanted to go a little above that, you could. And then all of a sudden, we went from 10 to 12 to 15 to 20 now is kind of the norm.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, but John, you always made your date pay.
SPEAKER 18 :
Oh, no, I did not. Absolutely not. No way was I doing that.
SPEAKER 10 :
Absolutely not. But, no, growing up in New York, maybe it was just a little more because I don’t remember 10%. I remember 15 from, you know, the time I was.
SPEAKER 18 :
And it could be. It could be the difference in the regions. I will tell you here in Colorado, again, as a kid growing up, even decent restaurants and so on, 10 was average. If you wanted to do more than that, you could. And lo and behold, I mean, I think the 20 came in, what, John, probably three decades or more ago now. Am I wrong in that?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. Yeah. I got to agree with you there. It’s been 20% for, yeah, probably. 30 years or more? It’s been a while.
SPEAKER 18 :
It’s been a while now.
SPEAKER 10 :
But, you know, it’s also that thing is, okay, 20% is the average. If your service stinks, you ain’t getting it. You didn’t earn it. You got to earn that 20%. But if you go above and beyond and I give you a little more, that’s fine too. But I saw a meme on Facebook recently. where somebody said take your total and times it by three. And they’re saying 30% should be the standard.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, no, not doing that either.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, I only do 30 if somebody’s not going to. They’re doing a great job.
SPEAKER 18 :
For me, John, that’s got to be a really special occasion. You know somebody’s really down on their luck. You hear a story that just kind of breaks your heart. You might add some extra dough. In that particular situation, it’s Christmastime or it’s Easter or there’s something else going on. Yeah, then I may very well do 30 or beyond even. But, yeah, I don’t want that to be the standard. I’m sorry. No, I don’t want that to be the standard.
SPEAKER 10 :
No, you’re breaking up, John.
SPEAKER 18 :
Find a spot. Keep going, though. I want to hear what you’re having to say, but we’re losing you.
SPEAKER 10 :
I said servers give you the biggest smile. When you tip them in cash.
SPEAKER 18 :
They do. They do. Although what I’ve learned is depending upon the establishment, whether it’s credit card or cash, in some cases they’ll cash them out with whatever the credit cards were at the end of the day, and they’re still sharing some of those tips with busters and so on. So what I will tell you is it’s not always, in other words, you can still do credit card and they’re still going to get cash later. It just depends on the establishment and how it’s run.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, yeah, I know that, but just to hand them the cash, it seems like I always get an extra thank you.
SPEAKER 18 :
You do. They like that. Although I want my points.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, on the tip, though…
SPEAKER 07 :
Really quick here, another… Oh, I’m sorry. Go ahead, John.
SPEAKER 18 :
You’re fine, Andy.
SPEAKER 07 :
Go ahead. Really quick here, another reason to give a much bigger tip. What if you’re there a long time, for instance?
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, that counts, too.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, when you’ve got two old friends who get together and they occupy a table two and a half hours.
SPEAKER 18 :
There’s no turns there.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, yeah. I agree with that. Or when I am… When I go get my car work done, there’s a place right next to it. I’ll go there, and I’ll sit there for two, three hours, and I’ll do work on my computer and so forth. I’m going to hook them up. I’m robbing them of a table.
SPEAKER 10 :
You mean you don’t go to one of John’s shops where you’ve done it?
SPEAKER 07 :
I’ve done it, yes, actually, but the current one is on the other end of the universe from me.
SPEAKER 18 :
So you have to wait, and then you’re going next door. And I get that. That’s fine, Andy. That works totally.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 18 :
I’m fine with that. Yeah, that works totally fine. Not a problem at all.
SPEAKER 10 :
Just a little change. We made reservations at a restaurant in Avon when we were up skiing, and it said for parties of four or less, one and a half hours maximum. Have you been seeing that on some of the websites?
SPEAKER 18 :
I have not seen that.
SPEAKER 07 :
I have not either, but you know what? It seems fair. I’m sorry, but it does.
SPEAKER 10 :
I’m okay with that because… You know, it’s Avon. It’s ski season. They want to turn the table. And I think it said more than four, two hours. So, you know, but if you’ve got a party of six or eight and they don’t add an automatic gratuity, that’s when you want to go a little extra, too, because that waiter’s working harder.
SPEAKER 07 :
benefits a table for two oh i totally agree but really quick here john uh when when they say party of four or less hour and a half i think that that’s really fair but if they’re going to put that out then they better get the food there on time oh well i i think we sat down we had a we ordered a drink while we were looking at the menu she came back took our order
SPEAKER 10 :
And the salads were served within five minutes and the main course within 20.
SPEAKER 18 :
Awesome.
SPEAKER 10 :
If not 15.
SPEAKER 18 :
Nothing wrong with that.
SPEAKER 10 :
And it was really good.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
Good deal. It’s in Avon, if you want to know. It’s an Italian place called Tinsino’s, and it’s really good.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, so far, John, everything you’re saying, everybody texting in agrees with. I haven’t had anybody yet that is against what we’re saying, and I have no idea what their walks of life is. But everybody so far is in. Again, going back to the survey, 83% feel the same way.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, if you can afford to go out to dinner, you go out to dinner. If you can’t, you’ve got to take into account there’s going to be a 20% tip in there. Now, I knew a guy, and let me just, this is a funny story.
SPEAKER 18 :
You’re fine. Take your time. We’re good. We got time. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 10 :
He was, if he took a dollar out of his pocket, George Washington would squint.
SPEAKER 18 :
Oh, boy.
SPEAKER 10 :
So, you know the guy, right?
SPEAKER 18 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
He would take his wife out, and they would go to Texas Roadhouse and get the sirloin speckle. And that was their night out. He made good money. I’m not saying he made good money. I knew what he did. He worked with me. And I knew what he made because he was a union guy. I knew his hourly wage. If the company took us out, he would order the most expensive item on the menu. I always thought that if you wouldn’t order it on your own dime, you shouldn’t order it on somebody else.
SPEAKER 18 :
I can’t disagree with you there.
SPEAKER 07 :
I agree with that.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, I can’t disagree with that, John.
SPEAKER 07 :
Can I close this on something? Yeah, go ahead. Because, you know, I worked in the casino for a number of years, so I know what it’s like to be a tipped employee. I’m just going to say it, folks. I’m going to be political. Conservatives tip more. Considerably more.
SPEAKER 10 :
That’s a known fact.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, it’s not close, folks. It is not close.
SPEAKER 18 :
Amazing.
SPEAKER 07 :
It is not an absolute. There are some liberals who tip very well, like my family, for instance. Okay, but most liberals tip like crap.
SPEAKER 18 :
Imagine that.
SPEAKER 07 :
They are awful.
SPEAKER 18 :
Imagine that.
SPEAKER 10 :
You know, but I look at it from a tipping point of view. If they earn to extra, you go extra.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I agree with that.
SPEAKER 10 :
If they didn’t earn the 20%, do 15%. And I’ve never been asked why by a server, but I have told the manager, and they ask why, and I’ll go through a litany. That manager needs to know why that server got a poor service.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, I’ve always said, John, as a business owner myself, you can’t fix what you don’t know is a problem, right?
SPEAKER 10 :
Exactly. If you don’t know it’s broken, how are you going to fix it? If that server’s just bad, like there’s a place that I go with my buddy for lunch all the time. We get the same server for like the last 15 years. She’s always on the ball. She’s always at least a 20% tip. And it’s lunch, so it’s not usually as much as dinner, but she’s always good for a 20% or more tip. And she’s funny. When I went to tip her cash, she goes, I’d rather you put it on my card so I don’t spend it right away. I was like, okay, I’ll put it on the card. I didn’t care either way. But, yeah, you guys have a great rest of the day.
SPEAKER 18 :
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SPEAKER 17 :
Stay up to date with Rush to Reason after the show on Twitter at Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 18 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Okay, Dan, you are next. Go for it, sir.
SPEAKER 09 :
Comment, Andy. You know, up in Blackhawk Casinos, I used to travel quite a bit for my work. And so, and John, you’ll probably remember this because you fly Southwest. About 10 years ago, they had a computer glitch and shut down all the flights. Right.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, that was a couple years ago.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I was in St. Louis, and I was leaving for the evening, but I had my room reserved for, I don’t know, an extra day or something. So one of my coworkers lost his room or something, so I said, well, you can stay in my room. So he… Went to the steakhouse. He ordered the filet mignon, I guess, which was expensive. It was comped. But I’m like, dude, you’re under my comp. Oh. Don’t make me look like I’m overcharging. And he was that way anyways. Anywhere he went, he would order the most expensive thing on the item because it was comped. But, you know, we do the tips and stuff. But it’s just like John was saying, that union guy would order the most expensive thing on the menu on the company’s dime.
SPEAKER 18 :
As long as he wasn’t paying.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, and when he wasn’t, he didn’t know how to cook. So his dinner was like cereal some nights. Like he didn’t own a pot or a pan in his apartment at all. So he ate on the company’s dime. Wow. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
Nice life.
SPEAKER 09 :
He was a character, I can tell you. So I caught the tail end. So are they saying people aren’t tipping much now?
SPEAKER 18 :
There’s a new study out that 84% of Americans are just feeling over-tipped, basically. In other words, they’re tired of the current tipping culture. They’re getting stressed.
SPEAKER 07 :
They’re feeling bullied for tips.
SPEAKER 18 :
That’s right. They’re just feeling overwhelmed with the tipping culture right now.
SPEAKER 09 :
What? Okay, whatever.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, you know, I can somewhat, you know, we’ve talked about it, I can somewhat understand that, Dan, because it seems like every time you go to buy anything, somebody’s flipping a screen around to have you add a tip to it.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, well, when they do that, I don’t tip them, but when I go to a restaurant where I sit down… Well, that’s no, that’s no.
SPEAKER 18 :
That’s not what they’re talking about. Yeah, the survey’s not about that. The survey is, okay, you grabbed a bagel and a coffee and handed it to me, and now you want a tip.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. Can you hear me?
SPEAKER 18 :
Yes, I can.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay. Okay. Well, that, you know, on those, I’m like… Nope, we lost you.
SPEAKER 18 :
You’re like what? On those, you’re like what? And then we lost you. Say that again.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m just, you’re just filling my food order. You’re not waiting on me.
SPEAKER 18 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 09 :
Does that make sense?
SPEAKER 18 :
Yes, and I think that’s where Americans especially are starting to feel overtipped.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, the whole idea is you are rewarding service, but you’re not serving me.
SPEAKER 18 :
You’re filling an order.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re handing me a bag.
SPEAKER 09 :
And you know what? I don’t tip them. I’m like, if you want to make more money, get into a job.
SPEAKER 18 :
Maybe I’m wrong in thinking this way, and maybe it’s because things are different on that side of the counter. But I stopped at Walgreens on my way here. They’ve got a particular gum that I like, and I was running low, and I had a couple of extra minutes. So I stop in, I grab my gum, I go to the counter, she rings me up, and I leave. There’s no tip thing there, nor should there be. So how is that any different than grabbing a bagel and coffee and giving it to me, Dan?
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s not. And I guess it doesn’t bother me because I don’t tip. on those types of orders.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, but Dan, what about up in Blackhawk? Because slot attendants and cashiers to a degree, but mainly slot attendants and bartenders do very well in tips. Why? Because somebody hits, right? They hit that $500,000 jackpot and you come and you bring them the money and they give you a nice little slice of that back. But the reason is you’ve been there the whole night. You are like their host out on the floor. Right? You’re there for them no matter what. Bartenders, same thing. So you win, everybody wins, and that’s the way it is, and everybody has fun. People are very used to that up in Blackhawk. They don’t like it when they have a screen shoved at them.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right, right. And I’m glad you mentioned that, Andy. You know that they raised the W2G limit this year? Did you know that?
SPEAKER 07 :
No.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, it’s now $2,000 as opposed to $1,200. Oh. Did you know that? No. So, but guess what? Not as many w two G’s are being completed now.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right?
SPEAKER 09 :
And so the slot attendants aren’t getting as much in tips now because they’re not servicing those slot those slot jackpots that they used to.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, so wait, are they just putting out a ticket then for 1900 bucks? Yeah. I’m sorry if I’m boring people here, because what we used to have is you would still any kind of a jackpot, even if it’s just, you know, a $350 jackpot, somebody would still bring you the money.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, that was a short pay, but not anymore. So that, that is, that’s, that’s, that’s printed out on a ticket. And you can either go to a kiosk and get that money, or you can go to a cashier and get the money. Or you can hit the ticket, and it prints out, and you can put it in another machine. But the jackpots, the 1,200 to 2,000, I don’t know the analytics on it right now, but it definitely lessens the amount of W2Gs that are reported. And that’s where most of the slot attendants make their – the majority of jackpots, I wouldn’t say the majority, but quite a few were between $1,200 and $2,000. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
I would say half. In fact, I would say over half.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, we’re understanding tip culture, but they changed these. However, the one big beautiful bill took away tax on tips, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
And overtime. And so I’m seeing it on my tax side when I do the taxes. I’m seeing how that is helping people out on tips and tax or tips in overtime. So it’s like we’re just moving it from one end to the other end. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Cool. So they complain, but then they don’t complain to me much, but they complain about it. But I’m like, yeah, but you guys aren’t paying tax on the tips you’re getting anyways. So I don’t know if it’s a wash or not, but I bet it’s close. you know i may be wrong so you know it is it is what it is so i and i agree with you guys on the stupid screen and give me a tip because i’m servicing you right now you’re filling my order right anyway you can’t believe this andy if you’re familiar with blackhawk i’m driving through golden gate canyon state park right now oh yeah i can’t believe i can hear you i didn’t used to ask Yeah, and I didn’t used to have cell phone coverage here, but now I do. Nice. Sweet. But I’m going to lose you guys. Okay. I’ll let you go.
SPEAKER 18 :
No, I’ll let you go. Nope, Dan, we’ll let you go. I appreciate it very much. By the way, that canyon is gorgeous. Yes, it is.
SPEAKER 07 :
It really is.
SPEAKER 18 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
It’s time to leave your safe space. This is Rush to Reason on KLZ 560. All right.
SPEAKER 18 :
Had several text messages, by the way, asking, hey, you know, love this restaurant talk and tipping and all of that. And we at one time used to do Andy and I did some restaurant reviews prior to covid. Some of you would like us to bring that back. So I will work on that a little bit. There’s not I don’t think there’s any more programs in town, Charlie, doing restaurant reviews like they were at one time. So I will. I’ll spend some time to look into that. I don’t think it’s anything that I, frankly, want to add a whole other show to, but I would be interested in incorporating that into what we already do. So we’ll do some investigative work on that, and I will figure that out. All right, next topic. Charlie sent me this article. Gen Z men with college degrees now have the same unemployment rate as non-graduates have, meaning that there’s a sign that higher education, the payoff is now dead. In other words, there’s no sense in going because you’re not getting any further ahead with it versus without it.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, yeah, but there’s, what about the pay rate?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, they’re unemployed. Why does it matter?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, it doesn’t. But I mean, for those who are employed, do the ones with a degree make more?
SPEAKER 18 :
Let me look here and see. This article I did not, I’ll just be straight up honest, I didn’t dig into the whole article. The Gen Z has increasingly slammed their degrees, or they’re slamming their degrees as useless, and research indicates that there may be some truth to that when it comes to the job hunt. In fact, the unemployment rate of males ages 22 to 27 is roughly the same, whether they have a degree or not. It comes as employers drop degree requirements and young men ditch corporate jobs for skilled trades.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 18 :
Meaning that, yeah, there’s probably going to be some that actually do go out and actually get a job, Andy. And I can’t read the rest of this article because it’s got a paywall. But I would venture to guess that there’s going to be some that are similar to what you’re saying. But all in all, let’s just say this. You and I have talked about this many times in the past, by the way. The payoff just isn’t there like it used to be.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, not even close. I mean, look, education is simply not worth the money for the most part. I mean, it is if you’re going to be a lawyer, a doctor, an engineer.
SPEAKER 18 :
But you know what? Even then, on some of the lawyering and even some of the doctoring thing, it depends on what field you end up getting into.
SPEAKER 07 :
It totally does. And let’s also say this. People going into the trades are making bank.
SPEAKER 18 :
They’re making a lot more money because, and keep in mind, their initial investment isn’t as large. Am I saying that right? Yes, you’re saying it right. Their investment of tools and so on is not as large as what others would be paying. It’s not as large as the college degree that they would have.
SPEAKER 07 :
John, not only that, they’re usually making money along the way in an apprenticeship.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
So their education is paid. They’re getting paid back for their education. And then, and I got news for you. There, there are a lot of young, um, sorry to sound sexist. Okay. But there are a lot of young ladies who really like having a plumber, an electrician or something like that as a boyfriend. They love it. They go on Friday, Saturday night and he’s paying and he’s showing, and he’s throwing money around at the bar.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, and the reality is because, to your point, Andy, they’ve got it. They don’t come out with the same debt. In some cases, they have literally zero debt because, to your point, they’ve worked their way up. They’ve got an apprenticeship. They started off doing that, whether that be in plumbing, electrical, auto mechanics, you name it. I mean, they’re working their way through. They’ve done very well. If they’ve got some mechanical skills, they’ve got the investment in tools and different things. And in a lot of cases, depending upon who they go to work for, Keep in mind, a lot of that education that’s happening on those different levels is being paid for by that company you went to work for. Yes. You have no out-of-pocket when it’s all said and done, Andy.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, you have no autopilot. Another huge advantage, by the way, is that people who are handy in one area are usually handy in more.
SPEAKER 18 :
Very true.
SPEAKER 07 :
You’re very handy. I’m not, okay? I actually fix things around the house because I’ve learned to because otherwise my wife will kill me. But, you know, you, I mean, you’re a mechanic.
SPEAKER 18 :
I grew up that way.
SPEAKER 07 :
But you know how to fix all kinds of things. Okay, so let’s say you’re a girl and this guy, he’s doing electrician work. I got news for you. If you two wind up married… Virtually everything around the house is fixed.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, your expense level, and I’ve experienced this most of my life, the expense level of having things fixed around the house. I mean, occasionally I will call somebody in. Typically it’s one of our sponsors, and usually I’m trying to help them out as much as I am myself, Andy, because I know that they’re benefiting off of what I’m doing as well. But I’m typically a guy where rarely do I call somebody in to have something fixed.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right.
SPEAKER 18 :
I’m normally doing it myself.
SPEAKER 07 :
You don’t need it.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, I don’t really need that. I can typically figure something out and get it handled on my own.
SPEAKER 07 :
What about landscaping since you’ve done a lot of this? Do you do that on your own or you get a team together?
SPEAKER 18 :
Or my guys do. It depends. If it’s a small job, I’ll do it myself. If it’s a larger job, my guys will come by and do it. It just depends on the job and so on. But, you know, that’s more of not necessarily the skill, but how much time do I have and how much backbreaking work do I want to put into it? Because landscaping, as you know, can be very back-breaking.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes, it can.
SPEAKER 18 :
And it can… Those stones don’t move themselves. Let’s just say that it’ll put you in shape. Let’s just say that.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 18 :
And keep you there. But, yeah, no, I can fix most anything. I’ve got that ability. My dad was one of those guys where because of our, I guess you could say, lifestyle, Andy, the fact that my dad was pretty cheap and didn’t make a lot of money, and we were forced to really fix the majority of things that we had around the house. And I was one of those kids where I enjoyed helping and watching and learning and so on. So there wasn’t much other than pumping the septic tank we didn’t do ourself. I mean, from pulling the well out of the hole to fix it and get the well pump fixed at the bottom end to, you know, you name it, Andy. I learned how to do all that stuff as I grew up with my dad.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay, so here is the life of a college grad then. First of all, you’re way deep in debt. Your degree is probably not going to get you a better job than the guy without one. No. You might get replaced by AI in those jobs.
SPEAKER 18 :
So why go in the first place?
SPEAKER 07 :
And you don’t know how to fix anything around the house.
SPEAKER 18 :
Okay, so here’s a question. We might have to table this until next Tuesday. Where does this take higher ed? Knowing that everything we’re now talking about, and we just got done talking about tipping and that whole culture as well, which a lot of these people, by the way, end up in those areas because that’s the skill set they had because they might have worked their way through college by doing those jobs. So at the end of the day, what’s this do to higher ed?
SPEAKER 07 :
They’re Iran. The floor is going to cave in eventually.
SPEAKER 18 :
I think you’re right. I think there’s a saturation of schools, if you would.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 18 :
And they’re all not going to be able to make it because they’re all going to compete for the same student and there’s not going to be as many of them.
SPEAKER 07 :
I agree.
SPEAKER 18 :
I don’t think that, by the way, I don’t think that one is too far down the road, Andy. In fact, I think you’re going to start seeing that in enrollment in the not too distant future, period.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, they’re going to have to pivot and start teaching some different things.
SPEAKER 18 :
Some of those schools, depending upon – Need more tech. You’re not going to see this out of, of course, CU and some of those types of schools. But some of the other smaller colleges, even Greeley, for example, UNC, you might have to see them incorporate some of the trades into what they’re doing for them to stay alive.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s what I mean. That’s not what I meant by tech.
SPEAKER 18 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 07 :
Okay. The trades.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
I get that. They’ve got to start incorporating the trades. Why? That’s where the money is, John.
SPEAKER 18 :
And if they don’t, they’re just not going to exist. Nope. So, again, that’s a great article. It kind of really, in a way, worked itself into the tipping end of things. Because a lot of those folk, when they get out of college and realize that, wait a minute, there’s no jobs for me. Well, what do they do then? They typically go work a restaurant-type job and start serving tables or doing something. And to their credit, they do pretty well with that. And good for them because that’s what they need to be doing. So, all right, let’s do this. We’ll take our last break. Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning. Trades, that is Hunter at Cub Creek. And again, as I said earlier, right now, yeah, you’re still using your furnace to some extent, but hey, you may be using the air conditioning next week when we get up into the 80-degree range. So whatever it is you need, give Cub Creek a call today. Find them at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 04 :
We don’t yell at you. We inform you. Now, back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 18 :
All right, and folks, yes, if you’ve got young people, I would highly encourage you to have them really discover, number one, what’s their skill set? What do they like? What are they good at? I’ve said this many, many times. The old analogy of, you know, go do what you love and you’ll make a lot of money, that’s the stupidest advice you could ever give any young person ever, in my opinion, because what they may love, they may suck at. And if you suck at it, you’re not going to make any money at it.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, I love playing quarterback. My arm sucks.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, so is there something to be said about doing something that you really love and are good at and then you can make money? Well, of course. So find out what your young people are good at and then kind of lead them into the different areas that that might work well for them in. And by the way, start this when they’re in junior high. Don’t do this when they’re in college. Start this in junior high when they’re really trying to understand who am I, what am I good at, and what do I need to do on down the road.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 18 :
That’s it for today, guys. Enjoy the rest of your Tuesday night. Enjoy the sunshine. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
