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In this engaging episode of Rush to Reason, host John Rush and his guest delve into the impending leadership changes at Turning Point USA following Charlie Kirk’s departure. They explore the significant challenge of finding a successor who can manage the deepening ideological divides within the organization, particularly regarding issues related to Israel. The discussion highlights the roles of potential leaders like Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, and Candace Owens, evaluating their abilities to unify or further polarize the movement.
SPEAKER 13 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 08 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 13 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 08 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job first. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 01 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 08 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 14 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, hour number three, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Got a text message a moment ago saying, hey, you guys going to cover Turning Point USA? What’s next? Who replaces Charlie Kirk? I said, yep, coming up next. So, Andy, that’s where we’re at now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, there’s a huge task ahead, and I’ve talked about this online, for Charlie Kirk’s successor at Turning Point. And it’s going to be a huge task, and it has nothing to do with matching Charlie’s prowess in debate. It’s going to be about uniting factions.
SPEAKER 11 :
And why is that?
SPEAKER 03 :
They’ve got a problem. They’ve got a serious problem at Turning Point now. On the plus side, of course, Turning Point is going to grow many-fold. It’s going to explode, obviously, because of what’s happened in the national outcry. And that’s great. I happen to be a huge… supporter. I applaud Turning Point. I think what they’ve been doing is absolutely spectacular. I love them, love them, love them. But they got a problem, John. They have a huge division and it is on one issue, Israel. And this is a big division. And it’s kind of interesting. I can’t believe this. Well, I’ve had this happen several times recently where I’ll put out a post, and then within a week to a week and a half, national voices start talking about it. And Megyn Kelly actually came out and started talking about this one today. they have people who are in Turning Point who are very anti-Israel. And you have people in Turning Point who are very pro-Israel. It’s a deep, deep, deep division. Charlie wasn’t just the great debater. He was also the great peacemaker within Turning Point. Charlie had some light concerns about… israel and about netanyahu and his his concerns as megan kelly said today it was today or yesterday i’m sorry she said the biggest concern when she was talking to him was that voters under 30 in america do not support israel at all she said they don’t support israel at all therefore our support for israel could really hurt us with voters under 30 and so it was more of a political question okay um The people who have been affiliated with Turning Point, who are, of course, very anti-Israel, and I don’t care, you know, they’ll say, no, we aren’t, you know, we’re just against Israel’s government, what they’re doing right now. No, man, they color every single statement they make with just this anti-Israel, anti-Jewish bile and just anger and rage. And I’m talking about, you know, really Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, that group, okay, and their supporters. They very much want to take over or, shall we say, have a heavy influence in this group. There’s no question about it. On the other side, of course, you have Ben Shapiro, Glenn Beck, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, who are all very strong supporters of Israel. And… It is a really deep divide. Now, if you were to say, Andy, I want you to give me two or three people who you think are like him. Okay? So they’re like Charlie Kirk. In other words, incredibly fast minds with a wealth of knowledge upstairs in the head where they can debate very quickly and effectively like him. I don’t know that anybody is quite like him because he was magnificent. But I would say Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens. Yeah. Mark Levin, he’s getting older. So I’m going to say those first three.
SPEAKER 11 :
Shapiro, probably the best of all three of those you mentioned.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 11 :
Because he’s just so sharp.
SPEAKER 03 :
I would say Shapiro is the sharpest. And he is just brilliant. Now, of course, could he work with Tucker and Candice? Absolutely not. Tucker and Candice, in my opinion, my opinion, Andy’s opinion. are anti-Jewish zealots. I believe that they have become full-on Israel-hating zealots. They bring it up all the time. They infuse it into all kinds of discussions. And you could just hear the rage in how they color these things. There’s no way you can work with it. And here’s the problem. Their followers hate Netanyahu. I debate these people. I’m not just saying this. I talk to these people. I was just talking to one literally today. with multiple posts. And this person who follows them describes Netanyahu as basically Satan on earth. They say that Netanyahu will burn in a very deep place in hell, and for everything he’s doing, and for the genocide. They constantly call it genocide. They constantly talk about the Zionist threat, okay? And I talk to them about the Zionist threat. There is no Zionist threat. It’s not happening anywhere in the world. They’re not blowing up bus stations. That’s Islam, okay? Everything that you say that the Zionists are doing is actually being done by Islam.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
And they say that they insist that Netanyahu is running our foreign policy. They insist, and this person did, and Candace Owens just did, came out and insisted that Trump bombed Iran. and that Netanyahu had him do it. He was acting at Netanyahu’s behest. Netanyahu has him on a leash.
SPEAKER 11 :
I can tell you right now that Trump doesn’t do that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, no, he doesn’t, but it was ludicrous. Look, the reason he bombed Iran is because it was a tremendous, really brilliant strategy at the time. You were taking out a nuclear facility that was going to be incredibly dangerous. You were taking away Iran’s ability to go nuclear. And the reason you were doing it is Trump was taking advantage of the opportunity afforded to him by the actions of Israel. And that’s why he was doing it. Remember, Tucker Carlson insisted that was going to start World War III. Was he right? No. He’s been wrong on Israel all the time. And so is Candace Owens. This is a real serious problem. I’ll be honest. I could not go into Turning Point and work with these people. I can’t work with racism. I can’t work with that level of hatred. And I also can’t work with people who fixate on a group. Take race out of it for a moment. Take Israel out of it. Okay, let’s say it’s people who fixate on Toyota owners. And they bring it up all the time and they are totally fixated on Toyota owners and they think that they are the cause of all the world’s ills. Could you work with them?
SPEAKER 11 :
No. No.
SPEAKER 03 :
okay, this is the problem, and this is a growing group within Turning Point.
SPEAKER 11 :
And you’re stating something that most, and there’s probably a few out there, Andy, that know some of what you’re talking about, but I would venture to guess that most have no idea of the things that you’re mentioning. I’ve known some of that because you and I have had some of these conversations in the past, and I have said publicly on air my feelings of both Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens. And while I like Tucker, he’s articulate. I can agree with him on a lot of areas. There are certain things with Tucker that I just can’t be in line with him. He’s a wackadoodle on certain things. And Candace, absolutely, on most things, by the way. She’s even more hateful than Tucker.
SPEAKER 03 :
And Tucker is hateful.
SPEAKER 11 :
She is worse, and there’s things, again, that she gets off on some of these tangents. I mean, her whole love affair with McCrone and the transgender, what she thinks is transgendered wife and all of that, I could care less.
SPEAKER 03 :
And Tucker’s fixation on aliens. Oh, it’s so stupid. It’s so stupid.
SPEAKER 11 :
You guys are losing your whole purpose when it comes to the things you’ve always done in the past and moving the football forward. You’re missing field goals in doing these things, Andy. Right. You’re putting your hand on the center, causing a penalty.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, but remember, Tucker, he will routinely have on guests who just blame Israel for everything. And he had one on, I believe it was this summer, you know, but… You never know. Maybe it was in the spring and I just saw the thing later. But he had on this guy who firmly believes that it is Israel’s fault that Europe is being overrun by Muslims. And Tucker’s sitting there nodding along in agreement with this.
SPEAKER 10 :
How is it Israel’s fault?
SPEAKER 03 :
Because Israel, what Israel has done in the Middle East, has driven the Muslims out of their land to have to run to Europe for safety from Israel.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, it’s insane. And Tucker’s sitting there agreeing with it. These people hate Israel, John. Now, here’s the thing that gets me about this. Israel’s not in my top 10 or 20 issues. It’s not that I don’t love Israel. I do. I love Israel.
SPEAKER 11 :
It’s just not on the top end of our list.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’m with Ben. When it comes to Israel, I’m with Ben Shapiro. I support them. And by the way, I think he’s right. When he debates, when he tears apart the points put out by Tucker and Candace, I think Shapiro’s spot on. That said, this is not one of my top issues at all. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
SPEAKER 11 :
And as I said yesterday, and I think you would agree with me on this, are both you and I saying Israel’s perfect? Of course not. No more than I would say the United States of America’s perfect.
SPEAKER 03 :
Israel has done things where I’ve looked at that and said, nope, I wouldn’t do that.
SPEAKER 11 :
I don’t agree with that. Thank you. I agree.
SPEAKER 03 :
But overall, are they the aggressor in the Middle East? Are you kidding me? No. Of course not. And so the irony of this is this, John. For me, this is not a top 10 issue. I’m not sure it’s a top 20 issue for me. And yet it is such a big issue. And Megan had to deal with it today. She said, this is going to be a big issue in Turning Point. I was really surprised.
SPEAKER 11 :
Really? Yeah. I am too. I’m surprised at that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, yeah. She said, this is going to be a big issue. Because Charlie…
SPEAKER 11 :
Because he was the mediator between those two is what you’re trying to say.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, he was. He was the peacemaker between these groups. And look, I’m just going to say it. I think one group is insane. And they are rising up on the right. There is a rising group. And I’ll just say it. They’re coming from the libertarian bent.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay, so somebody asked, and we can answer this when we come back. Somebody just asked on a text message, who besides Ben could potentially lead Turning Point? By the way, it won’t be Ben, I don’t think. No, it won’t. It won’t be Ben. So he’s not even in the picture as far as… He’s got his own thing he does. He’s got no desire to go do anything with Turning Point as far as I…
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, he wants to be involved, but no, I don’t think he wants to lead.
SPEAKER 11 :
He’s not going to want to lead it. All right. We’ll answer more of that as soon as we come back. More questions, by all means, give us a text message, 307-282-22. You can call in as well, 303-477-5600. Flesch Law is next. Kevin Flesch, 303-806-8886.
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SPEAKER 13 :
Putting reason into your afternoon drive, this is John Rush.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Texter, before we go into break, asked, okay, if not Ben Shapiro, then who else could potentially lead Turning Point USA? I hope to God it’s not Candace Owens because the whole thing will just take a nosedive and be over with.
SPEAKER 03 :
It won’t be Candace.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s my prediction. And I don’t think it will either, Andy, because she’s just too polarizing.
SPEAKER 03 :
And by the way, from what I heard, I believe that Charlie’s pastor had even commented on how Charlie loved Candace, but he had differences with her. Charlie… had some concerns, like I said, about his concerns, I think, on the war in Gaza going so far that it could really cost us politically. And maybe he’s right, by the way, with young people. Charlie understands the pulse of young voters in America. There’s no question about that.
SPEAKER 11 :
He did do that. Yes, you’re correct.
SPEAKER 03 :
Personally, I believe that what we need is more of Ben Shapiro explaining to people why.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because anybody who debates and says they shouldn’t be doing this, Ben, he’s not mean either. Ben is just very matter-of-fact person.
SPEAKER 11 :
He’s more a matter of fact than Charlie.
SPEAKER 03 :
He is.
SPEAKER 11 :
Much more.
SPEAKER 03 :
He is, and he is just as fast.
SPEAKER 11 :
If not faster.
SPEAKER 03 :
If not faster. Honestly, Charlie’s awfully fast, too.
SPEAKER 11 :
Lightning fast. But Ben’s delivery is faster is probably the best way to say it. Not necessarily his mental wit, but just Ben’s language and how he speaks and articulates. And remember, this is nothing against Charlie. Charlie never went to college. Nothing against him. I didn’t either. So I’m not holding that against him in any way, shape, or form. No. But Ben did. Ben skipped two grades, then went on to a very astute college and so on and studied political science and all of that. And am I saying that that makes him any better than Charlie Kirk? Because it doesn’t. But is he wittier on certain things? Yes, he is.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, he is. But honestly, John, in my opinion, Ben isn’t that fast because of school. He’s that fast because he’s Ben.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, yeah, that too. He’s got a very high IQ. He’s a very intelligent individual.
SPEAKER 03 :
He can jump that high, defend that well, and shoot that well because he’s Michael Jordan. Okay? I’m sorry. You’re right. Now, if you want somebody equally fast on the other side, though, it would be Candace Owens. And she is equally fast. She’s lightning.
SPEAKER 11 :
She just happens to be lightning wrong at times.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, she happens to have gone off the deep end. Here’s what I don’t think they need. I don’t think they need one of these young voices. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 11 :
No, time out. Really quick. Why do they go off the deep end? I mean, we’ve brushed on that in the past, but why do they go that way?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yeah. As I’ve always said, nothing closes a mind faster than a heart.
SPEAKER 11 :
And Charlie says a God complex.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, yeah, that can weigh into it. But what it really comes down to is your emotions. Okay. If you let your emotions take over, as I always say, make decisions with your mind. Experience life with your emotions. Never reverse the two. Right. Okay? If your emotions take over and you start using your mind… As a slave to your emotions. In other words, I really want that car. Well, John, you can’t afford that car. I really want that car. You can’t afford it.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s why you never buy a car on a Friday night.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Now John’s going to use his mind as an internal lawyer to justify buying the car that his emotions want. Right. Okay. So your mind becomes a slave to your emotions. You see what I mean? Mm-hmm. That’s what most people do, by the way. They use their mind only to justify what their heart wants. Okay. Now, getting back to Candace Owens.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
At some point, Candace became horrified by Israel and by Netanyahu in whatever ways. I don’t know why. I don’t know her history. Okay. But it took her over and it became an absolute fixation. Okay. then your passion for that takes over. And as Charlie was saying, there’s also a God complex here. She was praised so heavily. that your emotions can start to buy into that. I must be right because so many people idolize me for my quick mind. So many people idolize me. And obviously, let’s face it, she was a superstar. She’s a beautiful young lady too, okay? Yeah. Very pretty. Yeah, I agree with you there. Very pretty, very brilliant, high IQ. Oh, yes, yes, yes, absolutely. Brilliant. And maybe that played into it. I don’t know. I’m not her psychologist. You know, I will say this, though. Her emotions did take over at some point because she now believes things about Israel that I mean, she was she was spouting things. I’m just like, there’s no evidence of that. There’s no evidence of that. Tucker was doing the same.
SPEAKER 11 :
And I don’t say this with France. It’s a similar situation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the whole thing with France.
SPEAKER 11 :
It’s like there’s no proof of any of what you’re saying, and you had an entire documentary on it and wasted everybody’s time that even watched it. Why go down that path?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. It is politically idiotic, and this is why Tucker is not. Now, they were going to have Tucker speak at their Christmas whatever get-together, and they probably will still. Because Turning Point, if nothing else, wants a variety of viewpoints, and they believe in that, and I think that’s great. That’s fine. Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
I wouldn’t have that be Tucker, but hey, whatever. Knock your socks off.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, if I were a Jewish… I would say no money for you if you’re going to have this. I’m sorry.
SPEAKER 11 :
He’s a loon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and I’m not going to support that with my money. Look, and that’s not being vicious. That’s being honest.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, that’s just the reality of how giving works, Andy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, if you’re good.
SPEAKER 11 :
If you don’t agree with something, you won’t give.
SPEAKER 03 :
Look, if I am whatever, and you’re going to bring in speakers who hate whatever I am, I’m not going to financially support you.
SPEAKER 11 :
It would be no different. This is the same comparison.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
You know, you’re a tithing person that goes to church, and you give and all of that, and you believe in your church wholeheartedly, and all of a sudden, one Sunday, there’s some Muslim dude up there preaching. Right. You’re probably not going there any longer or giving any longer, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and they’re telling me to give my life to Allah.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I mean— And 72 virgins I can get if I— At the end of the day, you’re probably done, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’m probably done, John. Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER 11 :
I’m probably out the door. Thank you. Let me tell you— How is it any different? It isn’t. There we go. That was my comparison.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s no different. Let’s keep in mind, though, it’s not just people on our side who look at them this way. There are people on their side who look at Shapiro and Levin and Hannity this way and Glenn Beck, who is also a supporter of Israel. Here is what I think they need in a leader. They don’t need another hotshot young debater. And I think too many people are instantly thinking we need the next hotshot young debater to carry the torch. No, no, no, no, no. You’re going to have hundreds of those that you can disperse all over the country. I think you need somebody older. I think you need somebody seasoned. I think you need somebody, honestly.
SPEAKER 11 :
Older as in what age group? It doesn’t matter. Charlie was in his early 30s, so 50s, 60s, 40s, what?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, probably 40s through 60s in there. I wouldn’t care, though, if they were 70. You know what? Our president right now is 80.
SPEAKER 11 :
True.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay? And he does a great job.
SPEAKER 11 :
True. Good point.
SPEAKER 03 :
If he were available, I would say the best person would be J.D. Vance, but he’s tied up right now. He’s a little busy. I would say J.D. would actually be the best choice. This… I mean, I mean that. When I think about who would be the best for trying to ride that line, because you’re going to have to appease these two warring factions. And these factions, here’s what’s going to happen. Right now, at first, for the first year or two, they’re going to take off and it’s going to be phenomenal and happy, happy, joy, joy, and all these new… And if they’re not careful, it’ll be two groups. Those two groups are going to turn on each other and it’s going to get ugly.
SPEAKER 11 :
And there’ll be like a church split if you’re not careful.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And so, yeah. And so I don’t think you need the next hotshot young person because you know what? Most of them are going to do like Candace and get full of themselves. I think what you need is somebody older who’s been around. okay and has seen this for a while and can help you navigate that that’s what i think you need and honestly you know he he has his own past but glenn beck would have been a great choice um because well he’s a guy who went off the deep end for a while then came back and became rational Yeah, but I don’t know.
SPEAKER 11 :
It won’t be him. No, and it can’t be for other reasons. I won’t say on air, but it can’t be for other.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there are. Yeah, I mean, can’t be. What I’m saying is this. I can’t think of this is why I’m worried about turning point. Not now. They’re going to be a bolt of lightning for quite a while. I’m talking down the road a bit a few years when they start turning on each other.
SPEAKER 11 :
But if you don’t have that at the pass right now, you’re going to have that. So you need the leader right now that will come in and do that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right now, look, if you said, Andy, you could put anyone in that position, it would be J.D. Vance. Yeah, but that’s not going to happen. Okay. My next choice would be DeSantis, who’s also busy right now. And, you know, DeSantis could talk to both factions to some degree.
SPEAKER 11 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
And still be strong.
SPEAKER 11 :
And he’s a great debater and all that as well, so he would do fine at that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, he’s also an incredibly—he’s a great debater, but he’s also an incredibly strong leader.
SPEAKER 11 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 03 :
And DeSantis, by the way, is going to need a job here in a bit, but it’s right now, okay? Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I don’t think DeSantis quite has the persona to do that. That would be my take on that one.
SPEAKER 03 :
He’s not, in my opinion… He’s not as vibrant as he should be. Well, he’s pretty vibrant, but he’s not as peaceful as Charlie.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, he’s not vibrant in a calming way.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And this, once again, J.D. Vance… He is. he’d be a perfect choice, but he’s not available. He’s going to be our next president, almost certainly, in my opinion. Okay? I think it’s going to be Vance and Rubio, and that’s going to be the ticket, and I think they’re going to walk. I think it’s going to be very powerful. I don’t know. I don’t know, but I think somebody had better get a handle on this pretty quick, because I’m telling you what, the war is already beginning. And it’ll, you know, they’ll all happy, happy, joy, joy it for a year, but… I mean, am I making sense here?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, no, totally. I agree with you. And I think this is what happens in a lot of organizations. And I don’t know internally, haven’t heard, haven’t read. I don’t know what Charlie himself had set up or if he did have anything set up. I think this is an important reminder for folk that are in leadership positions like that to always have their successor on cue, meaning you should be training them, getting them ready to go no matter what. And I don’t know whether they did or didn’t have that done.
SPEAKER 03 :
He was only 31. I mean, you generally don’t think in those terms.
SPEAKER 11 :
You have a $95 million a year organization. You should be doing that regardless of what your age is. Agreed. It doesn’t matter.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think that at this point, they were only thinking about expansion. Let me ask you this. How many people do you know of that mindset, be it ministry or politically, out there today? who would be of the right mindset to command something like that.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right. I’ll see if I can answer that when we come back. We’ll do that in a moment. Roof Savers of Colorado coming up next. Make sure you’re dialed in when it comes to your roof. If you want to extend the life of, Dave can help you with that. Most of all right now, get your annual inspection done. Give Dave a call today, 303-710-6916.
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SPEAKER 09 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. And just for grins, I threw in Andy’s question into AI just to say, OK, what would it come back and say? Which really was right along the lines of what Andy’s already been saying. It did say Erica Kirk, which its cons outweigh the pros. And I just don’t think she’s got the persona, per se, to continue on.
SPEAKER 03 :
And really quick, before we move on from her. John, how many husbands and wives have all the same skills? Usually it’s opposites who attract.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 03 :
My wife and I, if either one of us were gone, neither of us could fill the other’s shoes at all.
SPEAKER 11 :
No. Is that the same for you guys? Yeah, because my wife is kind and compassionate, and I am not.
SPEAKER 03 :
We’re totally different.
SPEAKER 11 :
And she’ll be the first to tell you that.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I loved Erica Kirk’s speech, but let’s keep in mind it was written. She does not have anywhere near Charlie’s skill set, but I guarantee you she has skills that he never did.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I wouldn’t say so. What did it say after her?
SPEAKER 11 :
Brett Cooper is another one that comes up, which I follow Brett. And actually, she is a pretty sharp young lady. She’s done very well. Of course, she’s had her own deal. She did have a separation with Daily Wire. She was on there for a number of years, and they had kind of a falling out, and she went a different direction, which is okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
It happens.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I don’t know exactly why, but it happens. Okay. I don’t know that she’s got the leadership skills necessary. I think speaking-wise, she could fill in pretty well, but I don’t know that she’s got the leadership skills necessary. I don’t know her that well, so I can’t say that because I just don’t know her. The next one on here, which I don’t know this person, Isabella DeLuca?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah. I don’t know her. She’d be okay. But didn’t you say it actually said J.D. Vance?
SPEAKER 11 :
It did say J.D. Vance was number two, to your point.
SPEAKER 03 :
J.D. Vance is the total package for it. What about, and once again, this is somebody who upset some people for a while, and I don’t know if she, I don’t think she’d be a good fit for the Christian end because Turning Point has a Christian feel to it because of Charlie.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
But Tommy Lahren.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, she certainly is the speaker, the debater, the personality. She has all of that.
SPEAKER 11 :
You know who’s up and coming and doing really well? I don’t know how well she does in debates is Riley Gaines.
SPEAKER 03 :
Not sharp enough.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I don’t know her, so I can’t answer that.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think she does fine. I like Riley Gaines a lot. Oh. Oh. I know somebody who would be an excellent choice. Who? Laura Trump.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Yeah. Her show on Saturdays is pretty good. But, you know, it’s kind of flailing because it’s that Saturday time zone.
SPEAKER 11 :
They don’t need some coaching.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, but she ran the RNC.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
And she had to deal with all these warring factions. She’s a very good speaker, a solid debater, but that’s not her thing. But she is more of a leader. She’s a leader. That is who I would pick. That is who I would pick, John.
SPEAKER 11 :
Even AI said, yeah, that’s a possibility. AI agrees with me. She’s got a role. She already has had roles similar to what Charlie Kirk has done, to your point. That’s what AI is saying.
SPEAKER 03 :
AI is also probably not thinking about the factions aspect of it.
SPEAKER 11 :
No, probably not. I’d have to add that to this.
SPEAKER 03 :
But Laura Trump would work well with both sides of that aisle.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, and AI says here’s the thing she has going for her. Name recognition, institutional awareness, and access, media experience, political organizational roles, and the conservative credentials.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
And what AI isn’t saying is she’s a strong Christian as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. She’s a strong Christian and also has a hell of a track record.
SPEAKER 11 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
She did a great job. You know, everybody thought, oh, she’s just going to go in because of her father-in-law, just be a name, and it’s going to be handed to her. No, no, no, no, no, no. She busted her tail and did a great job. Okay. I think that is the one I would choose. Andy, so far? That’s the one I would choose.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s the top choice.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
It is. And by the way, I think she’s also one that could keep those two factions together because of her skills in that way. Right. Might be even better than Charlie in that regard.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, because I think Charlie was waning. I think Charlie was starting to weaken on that front.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, because everybody’s in his ear. Laura’s had people in her ear her whole life, for the most part, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, she was a producer for Inside Edition, so she’s had people in her ear forever, Andy. That’s not a big deal for somebody like her.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think Laura Trump could deal with the wackos.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, because she already has.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And people are listening to this saying, Andy, you’re not a peacemaker at all. You’re calling them wackos. You’re right. I’m not calling myself one. I’m not saying I would be peaceful with the Candace Owens group. I would look at them and say, you’re racist.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. No, I wouldn’t in these group meetings.
SPEAKER 11 :
Get off my lawn. You’re done.
SPEAKER 03 :
I would say that right now on the air. Would I say that if I were in a meeting with you? No, of course not. No, you can’t. I would say let’s move forward together.
SPEAKER 11 :
We have liberties here on air that we can take that you can’t take in other places.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, this is a radio show, okay? But, you know, when you espouse the kind of views that they do, when you blame Israel for Europe getting overrun by Muslims, yeah, I’m going to say that you’ve got some hate issues there. I think Laura Trump should be the next head of Turning Point. And by the way, Turning Point is about to become much, much, much larger than the RNC.
SPEAKER 11 :
And by the way, here’s something I would do, given some of our short list here. If I were Laura Trump, I would agree to do that for a time, and I would groom a Brett Cooper or somebody along those lines to be able to step into that role in five or ten years.
SPEAKER 03 :
I agree.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s how I would do that.
SPEAKER 03 :
In fact, as you were saying, John, I even believe in some ways Laura would do a better job than Charlie of running the organizational end of it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, I believe she would. Not that he did it badly, but she would have a more corporate focus on what they’re doing and taking the organization to another level that, frankly, I’m not sure Charlie could have done.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think he would have struggled with it. Now, Charlie, look, I don’t want Laura Trump at a table debating college students.
SPEAKER 11 :
No, she doesn’t have that same skill set.
SPEAKER 03 :
No. Actually, she would do decent, but not nearly on that level. Not like him. No, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER 11 :
But you don’t need to. There’s enough other people you can empower to go do that for you, Andy.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s just it. They’ve got plenty of young bucks coming up. I don’t want one of them running this organization.
SPEAKER 11 :
They don’t need to.
SPEAKER 03 :
And that includes Ben Shapiro, who I agree with more. I don’t want him running it either. Why? Because I believe you would have a huge young faction. And I’m not just saying this. They’ve said it. They’ve said it online. Not Ben Shapiro. Why? Israel. OK, lots of them are saying that online.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay, so… I’m with your first pick on Laura. I hadn’t thought of her, but that’s a great pick, Andy. That’s fabulous. So can you get the word out to her somehow?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, sure. Or to the organization?
SPEAKER 11 :
Let me pick up the phone. Can you put a bug in somebody’s ear?
SPEAKER 03 :
I wish. I have no idea how I would get that word to her, but I absolutely believe. She is the one who has the gravitas and the skill set… And the connections to do it. And she is the one who could unite the factions. Yeah, she is the one I would choose. Absolutely. No question about it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Which, by the way, I’m guessing there’s probably not another radio program in the country that has even gone through this list this way.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, there isn’t.
SPEAKER 11 :
And even thought of it this way.
SPEAKER 03 :
J.D. Vance would be the only other one, and I’m afraid he’s going to be the next president. He’s got a little tied up.
SPEAKER 11 :
He’s got bigger fish to fry.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
And not only that, I mean, even as vice president, he still has three more years left to fulfill that. So he’s busy right now, no matter what, period. Even without the next election, he’s busy, Andy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Trump uses him like a weapon. He shoots them all over the country.
SPEAKER 11 :
And by the way, this is the reason why, you know, not only the things that Andy said about Ben, but Ben’s got his own organization that he pretty much runs in Daily Wire. Just leave it alone. We need it as well. We need as many of those as possible. Don’t combine them. Let’s keep it going also.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and you would say to me, okay, Andy, let’s say they put Laura Trump in charge of it. Would you be fine with the disparate factions like Ben Shapiro and Tucker Carlson and Candace Owens all speaking at and with Turning Point? My answer would be yes, absolutely. If I had somebody like Laura Trump over it, I could handle it. But if I were Laura Trump, I would tell all of them, hey, you’re going to have to deal with this war behind the scenes, not in front of it. Because otherwise you’re going to become the news, and we can’t have that.
SPEAKER 11 :
For grins, I just said, okay, what about men? I’m asking Chad GBT, what about men? So, of course, it said Ben Shapiro, which we’ve already been through that one. Michael Knowles, who’s with Daily Wire.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
Matt Walsh.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I thought about Matt Walsh. He’s too harsh. Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
I love Matt, but he’s too harsh.
SPEAKER 03 :
Matt is not a peacemaker at all.
SPEAKER 11 :
No, he’s a divider.
SPEAKER 03 :
And he likes it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, that’s his stick.
SPEAKER 03 :
See, what I think Chad is trying to do too much of is get somebody who is a debater. And Matt is a great debater. And I think they’re missing the point. We don’t need another debater. So what I think Chad is trying to do is get somebody more like Charlie. And Matt is a lot like Charlie. He’s a great friend of Charlie. Tremendous debater. Brilliant, actually.
SPEAKER 11 :
What about Will Witt?
SPEAKER 03 :
Will Witt?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, you see him on a lot of the YouTube things. He’s the man on the street and all that. Kind of did what Charlie did, only not in the Turning Point USA fashion.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I don’t know any of his organizational structure abilities, so I wouldn’t know. So, you know, no idea of knowing.
SPEAKER 11 :
Josh Hawley? He’s kind of a J.D. Vance lookalike.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I like Josh a lot. I’ve heard that there are actually some concerns ethically about Josh. I don’t know these concerns. So I’m only saying, but I have heard that from people who I do trust a lot. Not big ethical concerns, but minor ones.
SPEAKER 11 :
You can’t have any doing this one.
SPEAKER 03 :
That would be problematic.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, you can’t have any.
SPEAKER 03 :
See, Laura Trump is bulletproof.
SPEAKER 11 :
She has none.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. She has none.
SPEAKER 11 :
I like that choice, actually.
SPEAKER 03 :
I want somebody to run it, not to sit down at the tables. Put people out there.
SPEAKER 11 :
The other thing that does, which is another huge plus, not that we have to do this, but another huge plus for Turning Point would be you would really poke the eye of the left because they accused Charlie of being a misogynist and he’s this and he’s that. Now you’ve got a female running it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, a very strong female because newsflash, the right likes strong women.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, so wouldn’t that be a poke in the eye at them?
SPEAKER 03 :
Totally. It’d be fun just for that.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s another reason why it’s a good option. And, you know, tell her, okay, we’ve got five years. We’ll get some people groomed and some other things done in the meantime, but give us five years so we can get this thing, keep this thing rolling along like it is. Give us five years, and then we’ll talk at the end of that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and don’t get me wrong. She’s doing a nice job on her Saturday show, but that’s nowhere near as big as this. This would be bigger, much bigger than the RNC.
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because it’s going to be so huge now.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, because it’s growing as we speak.
SPEAKER 03 :
And and I think it would also send a great message to everybody and basically say this. Look, we don’t want to get another debater at the table like him. We want somebody to run an organization and unleash the debaters at the tables. And that would be Laura Trump. And let me tell you something. I believe the factions would both buy in.
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SPEAKER 13 :
It’s time to leave your safe space. This is Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. And I know somebody, Andy, that I just put a little email to that might be able to pass that recommendation along.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
Surprisingly enough.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you know, let’s get this ball rolling.
SPEAKER 11 :
You never know. I mean, I don’t have a direct contact to Turning Point, but I have somebody that’s probably one step away is all, so why not? Let’s give it a whirl.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, it would be great.
SPEAKER 11 :
I would be so excited. Really quick where that’s coming from is we’re actually going to interview Monday Charlie Kirk’s right hand, and so the person in charge of booking him has an in, so there we go.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right.
SPEAKER 11 :
So we do have a few ins with some of these organizations at times, so let’s give it a whirl and see what happens.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, you never know.
SPEAKER 11 :
I mean, not that, you know, what I said was, hey, they may have already thought of this on their own, but if not, you know, here’s what we just got done talking about on air.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, what concerns me is, you know, you’ve got to figure usually when something like this happens in an organization, and not assassination, let’s say that boss just moves on to another, you’ve got a number of people who are thinking, I’m ready.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right. Yeah, it happens. The vacuum is there, and that vacuum is trying now to be filled. And it’s not because anybody’s mean or rude or uncaring or anything like that. It’s just human nature. They want to fill the vacuum.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And here’s what I think the people there would have to understand, John. This organization is about to increase multifold. There are going to be massive positions available all over the place, many of them. The question is, who is going to be the ringleader? not who’s going to be the impressive one, you know, debating college students, you know, at the table and so forth. Yeah, and I think that’s where – Or the big speaker.
SPEAKER 11 :
And granted, then there’s an entire board. They’ve got a board of directors. They’ve got lots of advisors. And believe me, Andy, these are very smart, you know, very intellect individuals that are probably sitting here thinking the same thing you and I are. So, you know, at the end of the day, they’re probably going through their short list saying, okay, yeah, we don’t have to have – You know, that that master debater like Charlie has been. We can we can fill in that in other ways. We can go to college campuses and actually probably even expand our presence in that way and do it without Charlie, of course. But we need somebody that will lead this organization and be the face of who is that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Do you think that they have in mind the concern I’ve been raising that, by the way, Megan has also mentioned?
SPEAKER 11 :
This divide, this growing divide. If you’re internal on the board of directors, you have to know some of that, Andy. How could you not?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
I mean, if you’re one of his advisors, his pastor, you’re on the board of directors and so on, which I looked up the organization. I mean, there’s a lot of people there that will be involved with whatever this transition is going to be. So it’s not like it’s just Charlie and no one else. There’s an entire group of individuals that are there willing to help. There’s staff even that are probably there right now going through some of these same things. And they have to know some of what you’re talking about. They can’t be that blind. Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, they can’t. Well, we have to keep in mind another reason Laura Trump would make an awful lot of sense is because really Turning Point is becoming a subsection of the RNC is what it really is. It’s becoming the dominant section of the RNC.
SPEAKER 11 :
It’s the young section of the RNC.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Is that a way to say it? Yes. And she co-led the RNC to great success. It would just make a lot of sense. It would make a lot of sense.
SPEAKER 11 :
Hmm. Hmm. I mean, I guess the ultimate question would be, is that something she’d want to do? I don’t see why she wouldn’t, but… I believe she would.
SPEAKER 03 :
I believe she would love the challenge of it. I believe that she would have great vision for it. I really do. Because once again, John, this is all… I worry that what they’re going to do is have somebody who’s one of these new young hotshots take over. And it’s just like, you don’t understand. This is going to become a lot bigger than that. You need somebody who has run the big stuff.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, you need somebody that will take this opportunity and jettison it into a whole other level it couldn’t have been otherwise. Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
You don’t need a hotshot.
SPEAKER 11 :
You need someone to run the hotshot. Capitalize on what’s happened. And I’m not trying to be weird or morbid when I say that, but things happen.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
And here’s my point with that. They need to go poke the left in the eye and say, listen, yeah, you knocked us down, but we’re not down and out. We’re coming back even stronger than what we were prior. Right. You think that you actually, you know, saying this really, you think you put a bullet in the leader and it’s all now done. No, folks, if anything, we’re going to become back bigger and stronger than we were prior. Exactly. And this is how you do that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Could you imagine Laura Trump leading the way? Have her kicking off their events.
SPEAKER 11 :
Especially when it comes to young people, Andy. I think she’s just got, I mean, she even has a draw to her that I’m not sure even Charlie had with young people.
SPEAKER 03 :
In a lot of ways, yeah. Although he was magnetic, too.
SPEAKER 11 :
He did, but she is as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. And also they have the same beliefs.
SPEAKER 11 :
Same beliefs. She has a looks factor going for her that he didn’t have. She’s obviously very pretty. Yes, very beautiful.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. I don’t know. I mean, yeah. I could see it. And then I would want the Tommy Lahrens and all of these hot young debaters. I don’t mean hot physically. Well, the Brett Coopers and some of the others I was just mentioning.
SPEAKER 11 :
You get them more involved and start going down that.
SPEAKER 03 :
She could have Tommy and Ben and all of these people working together with it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 03 :
And she could even take it and make it work with the Daily Wire in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER 11 :
Because she’s a great organizer.
SPEAKER 03 :
Daily Caller and so forth. Yeah. She is.
SPEAKER 11 :
She’s a great organizer that could really be the glue. Make sure I say that right. The glue that brings a lot of that back together. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And in a way, I think she’s also the type of individual that could sit down with a Tucker Carlson and say, OK, Tucker, we’re going to have you come on and speak about a few things. But these are the things you’re not going to talk about.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’re not talking about aliens.
SPEAKER 11 :
You’re not going to talk about aliens. You’re not going to talk about Israel. You’re going to come here and talk to our young people about X, Y, Z.
SPEAKER 03 :
And by the same, I could see her having the gravitas to bring in him and Ben.
SPEAKER 11 :
At the same time.
SPEAKER 03 :
And say, okay, we’re not going to have a war over Israel. The war over Israel is happening in the Middle East. It’s not going to happen here.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
In Turning Point, period. I agree. So what are we going to do about it, gentlemen?
SPEAKER 11 :
I agree. I agree.
SPEAKER 03 :
I wouldn’t even bring in Candace because Candace is so enraged.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, she’s out there. You can’t work with that. Just cross her off the list.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, but I would bring in Tucker and Ben. And if anybody could do it, she could. And bring them in and say, we have to win.
SPEAKER 11 :
And to your point, she could do it in a way that even Charlie couldn’t have done.
SPEAKER 03 :
This is true.
SPEAKER 11 :
Wouldn’t have done. Oh, yeah. Wouldn’t have done.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, those two guys would not look at Charlie with the same kind of… No, no.
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, no, you’re right.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’re right. Because they would look at her and say, we’ve got to look. Her father in law, of course, is the president, master of our movement, not just the president, but he is the one, the master of our movement. OK, we cannot. We cannot turn against this. This is a person. I’m going to use some bad words here. This is a person we can’t piss off.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right. Right. This is Laura Trump. Well, and as I reminded everybody last week, a lot of young people, especially that texted me throughout the week, even through the weekend. And for those of you that are still listening. Number one, hats off to you guys for listening. We appreciate you guys. We love you guys. We want you to be strong. We want you to keep this movement moving forward. And I’m honored, Andy, that we have people that are in their early ages that are actually even listening to us. I feel very honored for that.
SPEAKER 03 :
They’re magnificent.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, absolutely. So like I said last week, though, with every tragedy. God can turn that into something even greater than it was before. And that was my message to a lot of you young people even on Saturday. I said exactly the same thing. The Lord can turn tragedy into great things, and if these sorts of things happen like Andy and I are talking about right now, that’s exactly what will happen. I agree. So we’ll see. Stay tuned. I mean, Andy and I have no insight. I mean, I sent an email off, and we’ll see what that does. But Andy and I have no insight. We are not a part of the organization. We have no idea. So at any rate, we’ll be right back. Don’t go anywhere. Mile High Coin is up next. And again, if you’ve got a collection of things kicking around that you want to turn into cash, number one, get that appraised, find out exactly what it’s worth, and then make that determination after that. 720-370-3400.
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SPEAKER 13 :
We don’t yell at you. We inform you. Now, back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, we are back. One minute left. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. And it looks like it never did rain super hard like we thought it might, Andy. It did not. Yeah, because I knew it wouldn’t because I put my car in the garage. Exactly. You’ve got to walk further. In the parking garage. So I’ve got to go further tonight. And I did that because I thought we might get some bad storms. And as always, we didn’t. So anyways, it’s all right. It’s all good.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s all good.
SPEAKER 11 :
At the end of the day, it doesn’t make any difference. It’s all fine.
SPEAKER 03 :
No.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, tomorrow we have health and wellness. Troy Duell, who we’ve had on many times, will be joining us. And we’re going to have somebody talking about sleep, especially when it comes to young people, kids, you know, going back to school and all of that and how important sleep is. And if that’s something you might be struggling with in your family, we’ll have a few tips for you on that and how you get your kids to go to bed like they’re supposed to and have the right rest and so on and so forth.
SPEAKER 03 :
I need to just talk to boring people. That would help me. To go to sleep? Yeah, I don’t know any. Do you have a hard time going to sleep at night? Yes.
SPEAKER 11 :
I do sometimes. It depends on the day.
SPEAKER 03 :
I can’t turn off my mind.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, that’s mine too. I have the same issues at times. All right, guys, have a great night. Enjoy and appreciate you all listening very much. This is Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
