Dive into the latest episode of Sekulow, where hosts discuss President Trump's unwavering endorsement of Mike Johnson for Speaker, highlighting the political and legal implications. We delve into the push for legislative unity and the importance of cooperation among Republicans to ensure a smooth transition of policies that are crucial to the MAGA agenda. Through the conversation, insights are provided into the strategic roles that both President Trump and Speaker Johnson play in shaping the forthcoming political landscape.
SPEAKER 07 :
Breaking news today on Sekulow as President Trump destroys the rhino narrative.
SPEAKER 05 :
Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hey folks, welcome to Sekulow. We are taking your calls to 1-800-684-3110. We are, again, you can see I'm traveling. I'll be traveling with a different backdrop tomorrow, but we want to be with you this important time of the year. As we are finishing out the year, you know how critical it is for the american center for law and justice and listen this is critical time for you too because congress is coming back into session when congress comes back into session at the end of this week what do they do first they elect their leadership and what is the first vote that we take the first vote that we take is going to be who will be the speaker of the house in the republic controlled house of representatives and it now uh looks pretty clear Because there was a lot of talk about, well, could Mike Johnson, who is a great friend of ours, did the same kind of legal work we do at the ACLJ. I mean, really committed to the issues that we care about, that you care about. You've been on this broadcast a lot before you were Speaker and after becoming Speaker. So it's been great for the ACLJ Government Affairs team to have his team in place in the Speaker's office. As you can imagine, to have that long of a relationship with someone who is third in line to be President of the United States and the most powerful, powerful person in the Congress. But there was some people saying, well, maybe he's gotten too soft. Well, President Trump has made it clear today, Will, he has endorsed Speaker Johnson 100%. And I think with that Trump endorsement, especially in the House of Representatives that is more MAGA than the US Senate, that that Trump endorsement really does matter. And I think probably takes Mike Johnson over the line. It doesn't mean we won't have some who try to start an insurgent campaign but it makes it a lot more difficult when president Trump has put his weight behind the full weight of his team behind Mike Johnson.
SPEAKER 06 :
That's right, Jordan. And in a lengthy truth, social posts this morning from president Trump, he started out by talking about the campaign and how we're the party of common sense. And then it ended with this says we ran a flawless campaign having spent far less with lots of money left over. They ran a very expensive sinking ship and, Embracing the DOJ and FBI weaponization against their political opponent, me. But it didn't work. It was a disaster. Let's not blow this great opportunity which we have been given. The American people need immediate relief from all of the destructive policies of the last administration. Speaker Mike Johnson is a good, hardworking, religious man. He will do the right thing and we will continue to win. Mike has my complete and total endorsement MAGA. So right there, he's leaving no room for interpretation that it's a soft endorsement or something of that nature. And if we believe that President Trump deserves the benefit of the doubt in who he picks for his cabinet and that he needs this team in place to get the agenda forward, I think that People that may have been on the fence about Speaker Mike Johnson should think that way as well, that President Trump knows what he's doing. This is the person he believes is best suited to get the Trump agenda forward in the House of Representatives with a very narrow margin, mind you. And I think that complete and total endorsement speaks volumes there, Jordan.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yep, and you know what, folks? This is the most important time of the year for us. I want you to know, if you're new to our broadcasts, and we were talking about this earlier in our meeting, we don't usually fundraise like this so regularly. This is just because December is the most important month of the year for the ACLJ financially, not just for 2024. It's really for 2025 and the work that we know we're going to be doing on January 1st. So right now we've got, again, our matching campaign. We want you to be a part of that right now. There's a midnight deadline on the 31st on New Year's Eve. And right now when you donate, it's tripled. Triple the impact. Think about that, folks. Usually it's double. So for the ACLJ, you know, we don't do those crazy matches where it's 100 times match. This is triple the match. So if you donated $20 right now at ACLJ.org, that is equivalent to $60 to the ACLJ. $100 becomes $300. $500 becomes $1,500. Think about these numbers, $200 to $600. This is the time to make sure we never have to say no to a case and our team is ready to keep fighting in the new year. I want to know folks from you, what do you think about President Trump's endorsement of Mike Johnson to continue to be Speaker of the House? Let me tell you something, folks, it is a very difficult job to be Speaker of the House. A lot of people say they would like to be Speaker of the House. Let me tell you, there's only a handful of people that will usually ever put their names forward. And why is that? it can become a very thankless job. You've got to weigh a lot of different decisions, especially when you're talking about the government shutting down and how that can affect an incoming Republican president. You want to make sure that we are doing everything we can in these first 100 days to get as much of the Trump new agenda done legislatively, get that moving as fast as possible. We have two years left where we have slim majorities in the House and the Senate that are Republican and a Republican president. They are pretty in line in the U.S. House, I have to say, though they sometimes differ on a few smaller items, on the big items. But we've got to really work in the Senate to make sure we get across with the 51 votes, and J.D. Vance can assist with that matter. But we've got to have a Speaker of the House who will fight with the Senate leaders to make sure we get the most conservative votes legislation possible that we can support, that President Trump is asking for. And that is why I believe President Trump has said, you know what, we're not doing these crazy, we shouldn't do these crazy fights to undermine the strength of the speaker. We need a speaker who is Willing to take the hits. Mike Johnson is willing to do that for the American people, for his fellow members of Congress. And remember, he's one of us. I think a lot of times you forget that when they become speaker after a while. You forget where they came from. He is not this lifelong politician who he thought, you know, all I want is I want to make my way to speaker and I want to become this national speaker. major leader where i've got to you know negotiate budgets with the president of the united states he's a religious liberty guy a free speech guy he was an attorney just like so many of us at the aclj that's what he spent his life doing until he ran for congress and again he's i think stepped into the shoes of a major position where a lot of people thought he would not last very long i remember in a meeting with a senator you know he went around the room and said what's the the biggest prediction you can make that right now seems like it would be unlikely, and it was that Speaker Johnson would last a year. Well, now we're talking about a lot more than a year, and he's got President Trump's endorsement. What I want to know from you at 1-800-684-3110 is how important is that endorsement? I'll tell you, Will, why I think it's important. If you voted for President Trump, you want the Speaker to be the person he wants to deal with. You don't want to put a Speaker in that the president doesn't like to work with, or that is an attack dog against the president. He's not doing enough. He's not conservative enough on every single issue. We know President Trump is unique. That's why he's brought more people to the party. That's why he won the way he did. against uh against harris and uh and look at the fear he put into the the democrats by taking out joe biden from the race and now we're hearing those articles about joe biden wishing he was still in the race but will i think that that has to be known and yes he's a friend of ours i'll say that right off the bat but if you're an aclj supporter how great is that that The few of us at the top of the ACLJ can go right to Speaker Johnson if we ever need to. Our government affairs team works with his team very closely on all of the issues that you care about. And we've been able to expand the issues we work on, Will. So I think, again, this endorsement should matter a lot if you voted for President Trump because you want his guy in as Speaker of the House. The Senate is tougher. So we've got to have a united House that will then go into the Senate and make sure we get the best legislation done in this period of time that you only usually get for a couple of years in your presidency, if you ever get it, which is a united Republican party front in Washington, D.C., with every branch of government, whether it's the legislative branch, the executive branch, and of course, the judicial nominees, all of that will be so important as well. And so I think, Will, it should carry a lot of weight, even if you were someone on the line maybe yesterday thinking about maybe someone else should take that role on. President Trump has said, this is the guy I want to work with. And I think by that statement alone, if you're someone who got elected because you told people you were gonna support President Trump, how on earth do you get in there and then say, you know what, I support President Trump, but I wanna pick someone that he doesn't want for Speaker of the House?
SPEAKER 06 :
That's right, Jordan. And I know that a lot of people were concerned when the spending fight here at the end of the year started to bubble up in Congress. And the original package that was kind of brokered to go forward was shot down pretty quickly by President Trump and Elon Musk and those like saying, hey, this isn't really the agenda we're putting forward. And so that's when a lot of people start to say, Mike Johnson is a rhino. Mike Johnson, he's not actually on our team because of this omnibus spending package that was only for three months to avert a crisis at the beginning of a Trump presidency. And my take on this, and I want to get yours as well, is that one, I think it also showed that as soon as President Trump, who is not president yet, so would not have signed that bill, said this isn't the fight or the way that we want to start off. What did they do? They pulled the bill and didn't vote on it and they ended up coming up with a different plan. I think that one shows you that Mike Johnson is willing to listen to the president to put forward what the fight will be. The other side of that is that the Republican caucus right now is still almost a European style parliamentary coalition. Because there's still some hardline, old school Republicans that don't really represent what make up the party today. You have the Freedom Caucus. You have the Warhawks. You have a bunch of different Republicans that come together and that Speaker Johnson has to corral into some sort of coalition that can move forward in the agenda. I think Mike Johnson was trying to get ahead of a fight early by putting something that would be a three month spending package that didn't end up getting signed. But knowing that one, it had to get through the Senate, which is still controlled by Democrats today. and a president that is also a Democrat. So therefore, he had to play the Washington political game to get something to go forward so that he didn't trigger a crisis before President Trump even got into office and then stalled the agenda forward. Now something better came out of that, but I honestly think that Mike Johnson is savvy enough to know that he's trying to not place landmines in the path of president Trump's agenda before he even takes office. And so what many people think was a rhino move, I think was actually him trying to shield president Trump from a big disaster before he even gets there. I'd like to get your thoughts on that too, Jordan.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, absolutely. I think that, listen, The speaker's job and the job of the Republican Party, if you are not the president, from the vice president down, if you support what the president is doing, if you believe he is the leader that you supported and you want to get his agenda through, what do you need to do? You need to make it as easy as possible. And that means take as many of the hits for him as possible so that by the time the legislation gets to him, he can sign it with widespread support. Republican support and widespread support, not just from Republicans in the country, but the American people. Because remember, these big legislative issues, we have to not only pass, but then we have to actually go out into the congressional districts. President Trump has to address the nation, go out into the country, and tell them why this is the best way forward, why we need this legislation, why it was worth a major reform. All of this work, by the way, the ACLJ is uniquely situated now to do a lot more work on. And let me tell you about ACLJ Action for a little bit too. ACLJ Action is a C4, so we do issue advocacy campaigns. And It is a sister part of our organization. It's not uncommon in Washington, D.C. So we have doubled the impact of our government affairs team when we are now operating in Washington, D.C. I like to say that our team in D.C. now has another major tool in their toolbox, if you will, and that is this other entity that can go further into the battles on issue advocacy, on really educating people about legislation. So I think Again, this is the time where we need your financial support. We've got a couple calls in. We're going to get to your calls. We come back from this break. I want to hear from you. If you had a member of Congress and you voted for them and they were a Trump-supporting member of Congress, Would you expect them, would you want them to say, you know what, if President Trump wants Mike Johnson, well, I trust President Trump's judgment because I voted for him to be President of the United States, the most powerful person in the world. So I think I should trust him when it comes to who should be the leader of the House. And it's obviously someone he likes to work with. And I will tell you, his team, while they were new, and it was a while back, they have become a really effective team that has been great to work with. for true conservatives. And I'll tell you, I mean, I don't want to get into too much, but he really does great work in bringing organizations like ours into the fold as much as possible on all of the issues and asks then what issues we want front and center. I can't guarantee that with other members of Congress who might want to be Speaker of the House. I can tell you that's the case with Mike Johnson as well. And that's why we want your support. Because we can really take our efforts in Washington, D.C. to the next level. Our legal efforts are certainly going to go there because we are going to help drain this swamp. And that is going to be a fight just like it was before. But we also want to take our government affairs work and get the legislative work done. And it's going to help you help the American people so much. Donate today. ACLJ.org. Triple match. Secco. This is Jordan Secco. Folks, these are the most important two days of the year for us at the American Center for Law and Justice. As you can see, we're on the road. I'll be on the road again tomorrow before, even on New Year's Eve, speaking with you live because of the importance of this month to our year fiscally. And what I mean our year, I mean 2025. I want to go to the phone calls, but Will, right before I do, we've got a few lines open and I want to hear from you folks about, again, what you want to see the ACLJ focused on in 2025. I think one focus that a lot of you would agree with is making sure we can get as much done positive with this new Congress and President as we can when it comes to policies. Get as much as we can done in the first 100 days, in these first two years, And also make sure we're ready for potential judicial nominees. And again, making sure President Trump gets the cabinet he wants confirmed and gets those leaders confirmed to the cabinet. That's also something we do as we, again, have that kind of unique role where we've got a very good relationship with U.S. senators and the Republican Party. across the board from kind of the more moderates to the most conservative. But also, just knowing that if you really do believe in what President Trump is trying to do, I think when he says, this is my guy, you have to say, you know what? This is the person he wants to work with. Let him work with that person. And if down the road that doesn't work out, President Trump is not the kind of person who's just going to stick with him if he's not able to deliver. So I think you could have faith kind of two ways. One, trust President Trump. He likes working with Mike Johnson. Two, if Mike Johnson isn't able to get the job done, and I think he'd be the first to say it as well, then he would step aside and let someone else in his place if They thought they could, President Trump thought there was someone who needed to be fresh in there. So again, I think it is very important that Mike Johnson got this endorsement. But I also want to hear from you about the issues you want kind of done right off the bat. Where do you want the focus to be in 2025? And Will, before we go to the phones, just a few things, let people know a few of the things we've already got that we're working on in 2025.
SPEAKER 06 :
That's right. Just as soon as we're into the new year, and I know our attorneys are working on it right now, that case in Massachusetts where we filed a lawsuit because of the funding the state was using to target pro-life pregnancy resource centers, the state filed a motion to dismiss. In our response to that, is due January 10th. So our attorneys are working, even working through the holiday as they already and typically do, but they will be having that brief ready for January 10th to file our response to the motion to dismiss from the state of Massachusetts and that pro-abortion organization that was running an ad campaign targeting pro-life pregnancy resource centers. We also have a filing at the Supreme Court coming up in a case which would allow states to defund Planned Parenthood. So using their choice of how they use Medicaid dollars and not being forced to fund groups like Planned Parenthood. We have a sidewalk counselor case, a lot of pro-life work coming up in 2025 that's pending at the Supreme Court. That's the Turco case you've heard us talk about. working on a second major amicus brief right now that will go to the International Criminal Court to defend Israel after the arrest warrants were issued against Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu and former defense minister there. And then we are defending three Christians right now that are on death row in Pakistan. for their faith so this is religious persecution at its worst these individuals are on death row facing death for being christians and we also as i mentioned earlier in that lawsuit with massachusetts we're also preparing to launch that half million dollar ad campaign to stop the mass deception out of massachusetts and give expecting mothers' resources and babies' resources in the state of Massachusetts, where the state wants them to only have one choice, which is abortion. So Georgia, get ahead in this very early days of 2025 that we look forward to.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, just to run that campaign in Massachusetts and really to test to see if we want to take that to other states around the country. We know it's going to cost about $500,000 to run it the way we want to fully respond to what Massachusetts has done with this pro-abortion organization. So the state, the Commonwealth, took about a million dollars of taxpayer money and combined it with a pro-abortion group. And they're spending close to eight. We think we can be a lot more effective in our reach. We've got the ads ready to go. We've played them for you here before. We've got billboards ready. We've got social media ready. We've got lawsuits ready, potentially, because of the way that really they are. They are just the way that they are. Talking about these pregnancy resource centers is just disgusting. But to do it right, we're going to have to have $500,000, and then we're going to know if it works in Massachusetts. It gets the attention, and people realize, wait, there are other options. And we fight back against how these pregnancy resource centers really have been defamed by the commonwealth. who is working hand in hand with abortion organizations that, again, make their money off doing abortion. So it's like fighting a big business, as I always say, with almost endless resources. And we want to take it to more states. We don't want to just do this. And it's not just for people in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This is where the battle started. If we can be successful in this effort and see that it does change the discussion, we want to bring it to your state too. So we've got to get there. We've got to fundraise. And that's why we've got the triple match right now at ACLJ.org. I haven't done a triple match in a very long time by donating to ACLJ, even during these deadlines. And this, again, the most important two days of the year for us financially. You can talk to anyone on our team. They know it. It's the 30th and 31st this year, the last two days of December, the most important days. And you have until midnight on New Year's Eve to be part of that triple match. Will, let's get to a phone call now. Let's go to Robert in Maryland on line one. Hey, Robert.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, I wanted to ask the both of you, now that President Trump has said he's given his full support of Mike Johnson being the Speaker of the House, are they going to be able to get through, meaning the House of Representatives and the Senate, the Trump agenda on foreign policy, on taxes, on regulatory policy, and also inflation? And I wanted to add another one, the pro-life issues.
SPEAKER 07 :
You know, I think so. Let me start with foreign policy. Foreign policy, the president has the most power to act on his own. So you see this rush at the end of the year where President Biden is getting the last remaining money he can, I think, to Ukraine. It's like $1.7 billion. Because he knows that when President Trump comes in, even if that money was allocated by Congress in legislation, the president doesn't have to exactly use it immediately or could decide to use it a different way or not use it all at one time. So I think, again, when it comes to those issues of foreign policy, the president is at his highest point of power. that's where he has the most power to act unilaterally. And there's a lot of constitutional scholars work, Supreme Court cases on that. When it comes to the taxes issue, that's legislative battles, Will. That's where we've got to make sure, yes, we know we can probably get the votes in the House of Representatives. We got to make sure we can get the votes in the US Senate. And it's why it's critical the ACLJ team, our government affairs team, the ACLJ action team, has all the resources we need, kind of like the cases where we never have to say no to a battle, a legislative battle either, and cutting taxes and making sure we get that through. It sounds like it should be easy when you've got a Republican House and Senate, but the Republican House is a lot more conservative than the Senate. So we've got to be ready to fight, Will, and that's what we're doing through this match is making sure we've got the resources necessary to go to battle on all of those issues that Robert just brought up. Some are more difficult than others. Some the president can do on his own. Some we need legislation. And when you need legislation, that means you got to bring the Republican votes together. And we can do that with your support. Donate.
SPEAKER 05 :
Keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. And now your host, Jordan Sekulow.
SPEAKER 07 :
the secular folk, you know, there are going to be a lot of battles. I mean, Lord, just the last eight hours, we saw the battles, Will, with just the H1B1 visas and kind of where the reform should go there. And, you know, I think where people kind of landed is that there was some confusion on H1B1s taking jobs from Americans, which should never be the case, but that they should be utilized when there are not enough Americans that have the highly skilled Usually it's in the tech world to be able to assist these companies that are trying to do wonderful and great things for the country. But because we have not had the best math and science programs, it doesn't mean that those companies aren't being run and the majority of the staff are American. But what it does mean is that if they could find someone in a different country around the world who's one of the best at the job that they're looking for, that as America, we do want to be able to bring that person in. Because I think Elon Musk is right to the point, I'm not endorsing everything he said, but he's right to that point where he says, listen, if there's somebody out there and everybody knows how great they are, this team that's out there, from a smaller company overseas that everyone knows this team is really smart, really good. They are gonna go to whoever comes to them first with a better offer. And America can always make the best offer. That's where people wanna be. But if they don't get that offer, guess where they go? They end up with China, or they end up with Russia, or even worse, they could end up with Iran. We don't wanna see that happening, Will. I mean, so we wanna make sure as a strong country, know that the system isn't abused and we're not taking jobs from the American people. But if we've got a group of highly trained scientists and mathematicians who think they can provide something that can be really created in America, made in America, let's make sure we do make it in America. And I think tied to that is bringing more of those jobs and also teaching people who want to work with their hands to encourage those jobs as well. And I think that President Trump is the right president because he knows the importance of having great contractors and having great people on job sites who can uh get buildings done on time and get get the construction done rebuilding our infrastructure rebuilding our roads uh getting the wall done in mexico where so we can secure our border you've got to have a lot of people with a lot of special uh sometimes special knowledge and they don't all come here. They're not all Americans, but we're a country that can really pick from the best. Why give that away? Not on a large scale where we're trying to mass fire Americans from jobs, but on a micro scale where we need someone or their group, their team, so that we can bring them onto the American team. And we've been successful throughout history by doing that. I mean, my Lord, this is why Elon Musk is in America, Will. I mean, he wanted to come here because he knew this was the only country he could realize this pretty wild vision he had as a young person, young entrepreneur, to send rockets to space, ultimately build a base on the moon that could then eventually take to take humans to Mars. I mean, think about that. And he's getting about halfway there right now. Only in America does that happen. While at the same time, starting the first electric car company without subsidy, without lots of subsidies from the government. In fact, he likes to point out, he didn't ask for that tax credit. It was American car companies, like the big ones, like GM and others who needed the tax credit because they needed to create those electric cars, which could not at the time keep up with what Tesla was doing. And now we're seeing some of the prices come down, some of them being more reasonable. But we've also gotten a reality check from people like Elon Musk. And it's why the left doesn't like it, which is that even though he benefits from electric cars being sold, you don't have a grid ready for everybody to be driving electric cars. So what do you have to do? You have to invest in the right kind of infrastructure in America. That's both oil and gas. You can look down the future to the electric cars thing as well. Make sure that they're going to work in wintertime in other places. They're not just kind of a novelty. We want to do all of that in the United States. We keep America number one at every – the first job of the president is to keep us safe. Making sure our military is ready to go, border is secure. And you know this president's going to do that. He's going to have a lot of pushback through lawsuits. We're going to fight back in all of those lawsuits. You know what that takes? Money. takes resources that is not free so donate today so that we can say yes we can file we can fight for that wall we can fight for that issue donate your donations tripled aclj.org today Thank you. We're going to be with you live wherever we are in the country, as you can see, moving around the country today. I want to go first to Jeff Balaban is about to join us from our office in Israel that he oversees. But I want to take a caller first who's been holding on the line. Whitney out of Texas online, too. Hey, Whitney.
SPEAKER 01 :
Hey there. Thanks so much. Yeah. You know, Speaker Johnson's really good for us. And Ted Cruz made some comments that gave me some clarity. He said the number 218, our speaker can't do anything unless the Republicans don't coalesce. And to that, you know, I said right after the election, that's great. We've got the House. We've got the Senate. We've got the White House. But our congressmen especially have to get very comfortable with one word, and that word is lockstep. I love that there are certain congressmen I really like, but they make declarative statements like I am always a no on a CR or I am always a no on the debt ceiling. And we don't have the luxury of having those kind of principles. We need to. We need to cooperate. We need to get behind our speaker. We need to get behind something that might be 75 percent instead of 100 percent and get over that finish line that gets things through. And that's the number 218. We need 218 votes. And that's where we can sort of step in and tell our congressmen how we want them to vote on our behalf.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I think it's key when you have someone like Ted Cruz, who I see as kind of the the leader of the conservative movement in the Senate. He was there before a lot of those other now well-known names were there as kind of an outlier at first. And now it's become much more mainstream. You've got the Josh Hawleys. You've got the, again, you've got the Tom Cotton's. You've got others, many others, Mike Lee's, who kind of came up with Ted Cruz as well, who are eloquent, but also very tough. But they understand that That to get things done in Washington, you want to get 100% of what you want. But even when you've got Republican control in the House and the Senate and the White House, you know that it's, again, it's slim, as you said, Whitney. And we just need more people to keep that in mind. That if we get 75% or 80% of what we want in this legislation, that is a whole lot better than what we would be getting if we didn't have a Republican-controlled Senate. by, you know, with Athun as leader or a house by, you know, controlled by Mike Johnson and we'd be getting nothing or maybe 10% of what we want. So again, 80%, 75%, those are victories. Let's stop acting like those are losses. That's self-inflicting wounds. And you can get to the 100% victories by building on the 75% victories and showing the American people why your ideas work. And that's at all levels of government. Now, Will, I want to get right to Jeff Balaban, too, because Israel and the world, because you got new kind of Again, conflicts erupting all over the world right now. That is what Joe Biden is leaving to the incoming president, President Trump, and not just in Ukraine and Russia, but still a very kind of convoluted message in Israel and also with what Israel is dealing with now with not just Iran, but Syria being run by supposedly a reformed, the former militant wing or army wing of al-Qaeda.
SPEAKER 06 :
That's right. And Jeff, I wanted to bring you into this discussion because we started the show talking about President Trump endorsing Speaker Mike Johnson to be speaker again. And I sent you an article this morning where Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu said there's no hostage deal because Hamas doesn't want one. As we look forward into 2025 under a Trump presidency, we know that the hostages, especially the fact there are still American hostages being held by Hamas, is of utmost importance to President Trump. But it can't be lost on everyone that one of the first actions as Speaker of the House by Speaker Mike Johnson was hosting ACLJ and our clients who are families of people taken hostage by Hamas on October 7th. And giving them a room, giving them an audience to the media and showing support from the American Congress for those families and those hostage families as well as the hostages that were being held by Hamas. So as we look forward, it's important. That we have someone who is, as the caller said, in lockstep with President Trump, wanting to get the agenda done, but also understands those issues and can be a light in areas that we need him to as we look at things like trying to finally end this hostage crisis with Hamas.
SPEAKER 04 :
That's absolutely correct. I'm going back, as far as I can remember, I don't recall there ever being an alignment as favorable, as hopeful, for resolution of these very difficult issues. And not just this terrible war that's been raging since the attack on October 7th, not just the horrible hostage situation that, as obviously, we're very involved in trying to help fight. certain hostage families the ones that have come to us for for assistance uh but i've never seen an alignment here you know donald trump was fantastic as a president for israel the first time he was in the white house and now we have speaker johnson who obviously is very close with us we see eye to eye with on these issues and so god willing look it's a very difficult situation the announcement by prime minister nathaniel today It's not really a shock that what Hamas has been doing has been playing a brutal game to try and keep its own survival on the one hand, but also really to torture Jews around the world, on the other hand, by holding these hostages. And until now, they've dealt with a feckless administration in America that has really been unhelpful, to say the least. And I think they're confronting an entirely new reality now. What unfortunately that may mean for the individual hostages remains to be seen, and it might not be good. They've been held hostage not for their benefit, but for Hamas's benefit. And the fact that Hamas understands that its days are probably numbered with the incoming administration is, you know, we have to really hope and pray that these hostages are able to survive it.
SPEAKER 07 :
I think this would be helpful to our audience right now who are really asking to financially support the ACLJ at the end of the year. So we're ready to go for the new year in 2025 with all these battles. And just to kind of talk about what the work of the ACLJ Jerusalem is going to look like in 2025. Obviously, some of this work that you just described will continue, but we also have to be able to kind of double down now, as you said, on these issues like the hostages, because it takes that much more work to bring attention to it, to make sure people don't forget. about these conflicts to make sure people realize what Israel is dealing with on so many different fronts right now. And we know our supporters care about it. It's just a lot of information that they're trying to take in every day. So when they're supporting the ACLJ, they're supporting ACLJ Jerusalem. What are the priorities for ACLJ Jerusalem going into 2025?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, thanks. As you know, Jordan, internally we've been discussing even expanding some of the operations that we have until now programmatically. Until now, people in Jerusalem recognize that ACLJ is uniquely informative and understands and connected and powerful in Washington. And obviously what happens in Washington is incredibly important to Israel. We've seen it this past year again, more than in decades, how important it is to have a favorable climate in Washington and a good relationship between the White House and Congress and Israel's Prime Minister and Knesset. For us, it's being really probably one of the most trusted, I don't want to say the most trusted, but we might be, source of information between Washington and Jerusalem Because we are so, thank God, so well connected, because we are so trusted on both sides, both in Jerusalem and in Washington, and each trying to understand the other side without the white noise of people with their own agendas. And that's the role we play. I think that we're going to be expanding that role. Well, naturally, we already are, because we're being constantly asked to prognosticate the future and also to try to have influence on both sides. And so I think the role here is just going to expand and grow as it's perceived and understood that we understand and are so well connected with the powers that be, both in Washington and in Jerusalem.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, and I mean, I think, Jeff, too, the issues that the people of Israel are facing, I always tie this to American security, because I think it's important, is that, you know, when the U.S. provides aid to Israel, oftentimes it is working hand in hand with Israel on developing defensive or sometimes offensive weapons that will be utilized by the United States military. And then it's tested in Israel. So that Israel is the test case because they are in a constant state right now of conflict, of these rockets coming in. So I think that really started publicly with the Iron Dome and then the mobile Iron Dome units that can be utilized, and now drone warfare that we have to be prepared for as well. That this is not just money that goes into the IDF to decide they can do whatever they want with it. It's really a partnership with Israel to make sure that our men and women in the United States benefit from the best technology that has been tested on the battlefield.
SPEAKER 04 :
So historically, we see that America's benefits tremendously from Israel's intelligence and weaponry development. And of course, the future holds even greater promise for that. And this is that great moment where people think foreign aid is just helping Israel. It's not. It's America's interest. And that's why America should continue to do it. And God willing, we'll continue to work closely with Israel on these matters.
SPEAKER 07 :
Jeff, thank you for joining us from ACLJ Jerusalem, folks. Again, that may be the issue for you that you care deeply about. Know that your donation matters there so much. Donate right now at ACLJ.org, and until midnight on New Year's Eve, your donation will be tripled. You can use the QR code if you're watching the broadcast right now. Go to ACLJ.org if you're listening. And as long as that donation is in, by midnight where you are on the 31st, on New Year's Eve, that donation will be tripled, triple the impact. We've got to have your financial support. We can't run all these offices in Israel, in Pakistan, all over the world without you, from France, at ACLJ.org. All right, welcome back to Seculo. Again, you're going to be seeing me in a couple different locations today and tomorrow, but we're going to be with you live, breaking down all the news and, of course, trying to raise as much as we can these final two days of the year through this triple matching challenge. Again, you've got time to talk to us on air. I'd love to hear from you. If you support Mike Johnson, 1-800-684-3110. As speaker, if you agree with President Trump, if you're going to Call your member of the House of Representatives. If they're a Republican, tell them to vote for Speaker Johnson. You can take that kind of action. But also, you know, what issues you kind of want the House to jump on and President Trump to jump on on those first 100 days. I think a lot of us know it's the economy, the border, and kind of just making America just with, you know, It's giving us kind of an insight into an endgame there. But what's why I just want to do one more time and then I will to take it from here. But I just have to underscore to you because I got to hop on a plane is how important your financial support is to the American Center for Law and Justice. This end of the year, why we're here with a lot of people still on holiday is because of your financial support. And it has been great. And, you know, my number one goal is this. I never want to get a call from a potential client, from the White House, from a member of Congress or the Speaker or someone in leadership in the Senate on something they need help on. And we have to say, you know what, I'd love to do that. Let me check and see if I've got the resources to do it. I don't ever want to have to do that. Now, if we're going to do something new, like in Massachusetts and run a brand new advertising pro-life campaign, that we want to grow a new budget for because that's something new. But if it's work that we've already got the whole team in our wheelhouse for, just like in the legal work, I always want to be able to say yes. I always want to be able to say yes to our international teams in Israel and France and Pakistan and other countries. And I always want to be able to say yes to our government affairs team in Washington, D.C. I can say yes and know I can say yes when I know that we've got the financial support from you. And right now, if you donate to the ACLJ until tomorrow night at midnight, wherever you are around the world, your donation will be tripled. We're not crazy. We don't do these 10 times match things. We don't even usually do a triple donation. But this time we can. So if you donate 50 bucks right now at ACLJ.org, that's like $150. And Will, we need that support so that we can always say yes to the best cases, the best issues, and whatever help is necessary around the world to do what our members would want us to do, which is to fight.
SPEAKER 06 :
That's right, Jordan. And this actually brings me to another point. We talk a lot about how President Trump kind of reshaped the federal judiciary with all his appointments. But this is a story that's not talked about enough. And I've brought in Professor Harry Hutchison to kind of break this down. But he, President Biden, has now surpassed President Trump in judicial nominees. So we think of all the good that happened with having strong constitutional conservative judges on federal benches. And now we hear that President Biden has surpassed President Trump in the number of appointments to the federal judiciary. 235 nominees in his four years. That's one on the Supreme Court. So not as many as President Trump got, but... One on the Supreme Court, 45 appeals courts, and 187 district courts. Two on the Court of International Trade. Professor Hutchison, when you look at that and 187 district court judges, and I know that Chuck Schumer said the judiciary is going to be the first line and strongest line of defense against President Trump. It means the work here at the ACLJ as we fight in federal court. is going to get that much more difficult and take that much more resources as we now look at a federal judiciary that in some ways, especially at the district court level, which then ties things up in litigation and appeals for years, when you have that many district court judges appointed by Joe Biden, it can make the legal work that much more difficult looking ahead.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. And so the ACLJ is prepared to file briefs in district courts, appellate courts, and before the United States Supreme Court because essentially Chuck Schumer has announced publicly that the judiciary is the leading source of defending the Biden-Obama bureaucratic agenda that has been operational really for the last 10 to 15 years. Now, it's important to note that although the Democrats see a judicial insurrection as perhaps their best plan to preserve an elite bureaucratic revolution, the United States Supreme Court on June the 28th, 2024, issued a landmark decision in Loper Bright Enterprises versus Raimondo, Why is that decision important? Because it overturned 40 years of judicial jurisprudence that basically elevated or reified the so-called Chevron decision. What did Chevron do? Chevron empowered the bureaucrats to rule instead of the legislature. And so the Supreme Court has now said that the bureaucrats no longer rule. So this is very, very important. If we want to move forward with Dodge, basically the new department, which improves federal efficiency. It's going to be important in basically stopping what the Democrats have already started with respect to open borders in the South and in the North. So it's very, very important to keep in mind what the United States Supreme Court has done, but we also need to be prepared to fight back and we need to confirm conservative judges going forward.
SPEAKER 06 :
Folks, when you hear Chuck Schumer say that the judiciary is the Democrats' strongest defense against Trump, what he's really saying is that the judiciary is the Democrats' strongest defense against what you believe in. the things that we fight for at the ACLJ every day. When we talk about the agenda of the ACLJ at the beginning of 2025, we have a filing at the Supreme Court that would allow states to defund Planned Parenthood. A sidewalk counselor case where a pro-life individual is able to freely counsel those that are seeking just hope or a choice in the matter. And when they're told by the leftists that the only choice they have is abortion, that is pending at the Supreme Court. ACLJ case, Turco. Working on our second major amicus brief to the ICC to defend Israel after the arrest warrants were issued. Defending three Christians on death row in Pakistan for their faith. We're fighting in Massachusetts against a state campaign targeting pro-life pregnancy resource centers. In all of the constitutional, free speech, religious liberty cases that we have here at the ACLJ, that's what Chuck Schumer's talking about when he says that the judiciary is the Democrats' strongest defense against Trump. It's against your values. And if you donate today, your gift will be tripled. As we look ahead to a fight where Joe Biden has now confirmed more judges than Donald Trump did in his first four years. The fight ahead is going to be tough, but it's nothing we haven't handled before at the ACLJ. And you can join us in this fight. Our deadline's tomorrow night to have your donation tripled. ACLJ.org.
Join Bill Gundersen as he navigates the complexities of the stock market on a particularly challenging day. With a close look at the NASDAQ's performance over recent years, Bill shares insights into the reasons behind market volatility, including historical patterns and current technological innovations. Explore the potential impacts of U.S. politics on market behavior, and understand the importance of active management in uncertain times. With a focus on fundamental analysis and a bit of humor, Bill invites listeners to consider strategic investments amidst a backdrop of sector rotations and economic predictions.
SPEAKER 01 :
He's been seen on CNBC, the Fox News Channel, and the Fox Business Channel. His articles can be found on MarketWatch, Seeking Alpha, thestreet.com, and many other places. He's the author of the weekly Best Stocks Now newsletter and the inventor of the Best Stocks Now app. He's president of Gundersen Capital Management. Here is professional money manager Bill Gundersen.
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome to the Monday. It is the Monday live edition of the Best Stocks Now show with professional money manager Bill Gunderson, president of Gunderson Capital Management. I'm here with my vice president. Jeff Webster, who will be adding a little color here after we get through our little introductory opening here to the market. We have a bah humbug day in the market. This is no way to celebrate the holidays. The NASDAQ right now is down, let's see, 1.68%. That translates to 335 points. We're clear down to 19,388. After we hit that 20,000 level here, big round number, sometimes that can be a big obstacle in the way of an advance. Valuation is also a big issue. I hope you read my newsletter over the weekend. The Dow is down 670 points. What kind of happy new year is that? That's 1.6% drop. Big tech taking it on the chin again today. The Dow hit 45,000. Big round number. Valuations got high. Now we're back to 42,308. The S&P down 1.5%. It's down almost 100 points. Very light volume, though. That's kind of hard to gauge. S&P is at 58.77. And even the bond market is selling off today. How about that? It's down six basis points. So welcome to today's Best Stocks Now show with professional money manager Bill Gunderson, president of Gunderson Capital Management. And I'm here with my vice president, VP of all kinds of things, so I can stay focused on managing portfolios and looking at the markets, etc. I'm here with Jeff Webster. Barry Kite is traveling today. On another holiday-shortened week, tomorrow will be a half-day in the market. Hallelujah. And then we call it a wrap for 2024. I hate to end on a sour note. Maybe we'll get some buying coming into the market here by the end of the day, Jeff. Maybe Jeff will open up his wallet and start doing some buying to get this market turned around. Okay, Jeff, can you do that for us?
SPEAKER 06 :
It's crazy out there. First of all, good morning to everyone. I hope everyone's having a great holiday season. with their families and friends. It is crazy.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, the last few days have been bonkers. Have you ever seen days in the market where it makes no sense? Well, yes. Many days, they just make no sense. I couldn't figure out where the big update on Christmas Eve came from. I mean, that was only a half a day. And then really no rhyme or reason as to why the big sell-off happened on Friday and it's following through today. Light volume always magnifies moves in the markets. It's kind of hard to gauge. But, you know, I was really struck as I wrote my newsletter on Saturday. I really was struck by going back, Bill, and look at your nasdaq article that you wrote two years ago it'll be two years ago uh in one week january 6 2023 when i wrote an article saying the nasdaq has bottomed and that came after a pretty big sell-off in the nasdaq you know in 2022 the nasdaq was down 30 percent and uh you know to call a bottom after that but pretty pretty sharp shooting there from gunderson And, of course, now we're two years into that big uptrend in the NASDAQ. And along the way, we've seen some innovation. What can I say? You know, AI came out of nowhere and became a reality. You know, the driverless cars are still a thing. NVIDIA came along. A lot of advancements. have come along over the last couple years in the NASDAQ. But the bottom line that I found in going back and reviewing that article, and if you didn't read the article in my newsletter on Saturday, you might want to read it. What I really noticed more than anything, when we started this NASDAQ run, and by the way, I haven't rescinded my buy call on the NASDAQ since January of 2023, the NASDAQ had a P.E. ratio of 20%. 20 times earnings which is pretty that's pretty cheap for the nasdaq actually and it had come down from about 37 times earnings you know during the covid years when there was all that money sloshing around in the market and all that speculation and all of that buying and all of the long duration stocks you went from 37 down to 20 okay so very cheap market The technicals backed that up. The technicals were bottoming in late December of 2022, finally bottomed in early January, and we went all in on the NASDAQ. We've been all in for the last two years. Guess where the P.E. ratio is now? Well, we're back to that. I think we're at 33 or 34. We're not quite back to the 37 ratio. But now keep in mind that we also have a higher interest rate environment right now. So today's 33 P.E. is probably equivalent to the P.E. of the NASDAQ two years ago. uh... and of course uh... we've come a long ways you know we had a two-year sell-off in the nasdaq and now we've had a two-year run in the nasdaq does the nasdaq run in two-year cycles i don't know only time will tell uh... but uh... we have come back and i mean if you look at any valuation measure price to book value Price to sales, price to cash flow, price to earnings, price to forward earnings. We're back where we were at the height of the NASDAQ four years ago. So that's definitely a yellow flag, Jeff. You could argue, well, we're in a much more innovative phase of the NASDAQ right now and new things are coming out at a faster pace. Well, they tried to make that argument back in 2000 about the dot-coms. Oh, we're in a new paradigm was what I heard. And no, I mean, valuations did finally matter. at that point in time and you had a huge sell-off in the nasdaq now am i saying that the nasdaq peaked to 20 000 well it's too early to tell but i mean the probabilities of a repeat in the nasdaq in 2025 of what we got last year uh is not very probable, I would say, number one. Number two, you could argue, well, Jeff, you know, Trump's coming in, he's pro-business, he's going to roll back regulations, he's going to do what he can to juice the economy. Well, that doesn't change the valuation of the market. How much of that is already priced into the market? But as always, okay, there's always opportunity in the market. And I think what I'm doing here is convincing myself once again and making a case for active management. Absolutely. Yeah, I think you're going to see some sector rotation. I mean, it's too early to tell. The only sector that's up today is the oil and gas sector. Are we going to have a big year in oil and gas? I don't know. At the same time, I'm seeing a lot of inverse. Inverse is a tool in your tackle box. that you've got to pull out sometime when things get a little bit rough. And, you know, I would also say this, Jeff. When I went back and visited the NASDAQ and I really looked into Granite shares, there has been a pretty big move towards these single-stock ETFs that are inverse ETFs. Okay, let's say you have a huge position in Amazon. You consider it a core position. You don't want to sell your Amazon. Well, you can now hedge that position by buying the inverse Amazon. You can neutralize that position, right? So if Amazon goes through a 20% correction, the inverse Amazon will go up 20%. And you've basically protected your position during a rocky time in the market. And you know, I mean, not many fee-based money managers. I mean, you have to kind of get into hedge funds and whatnot to get any hedging in your portfolios. But we're big believers in hedging during volatile times in the market. And I do expect more volatility in 2025 than we had in 2024, although we had plenty of volatility. One thing that is certain in the market is volatility, Jeff. I'm sure you've seen that since you've been with us and are more focused on the market than probably ever before in your career. You've seen that volatility. So anyways, that's where we begin a new year. It would be wise to read. I wrote a very simple, easy to understand article about And not only did I show a graph of the NASDAQ, I showed graphs of the valuation charts of the NASDAQ. And I've also submitted that article to Seeking Alpha. And if there's anybody working this week at Seeking Alpha, we'll find out. I mean, it's... I submitted it like 12, 14 hours ago and haven't heard a peep yet. But hopefully we'll get that article out there for the general public on Seeking Alpha 2. Okay, when we come back, lots of predictions coming out on this year in the market.
SPEAKER 1 :
We'll be right back.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to the second quarter of today's Best Stocks Now show on the second to last day. It's the last full day of the year, trading year. Tomorrow will be a half day. I'm just trying to come up with ideas in my head, theories. Jeff, what all of a sudden turned the market really on Friday? It was Friday that you had the big sell-off, especially in tech.
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, could it be, Bill, all the changes that we're seeing out there with You know, we're now seeing a big surge with quantum computing, with the AI stuff. Are people just saying, you know what, 2024 has been a great year. I'm going to take some profits. I'm going to do some tax harvesting on my losses and, you know, go into 2025 with a relatively, you know, clean slate.
SPEAKER 03 :
and and look for you know good opportunities is that a possibility i would buy into that except most people are going to wait to they don't have many losses in 2024 it's mostly gains and you know the the logic is that you wait until after the first of the year to do your selling of big gains and an ira obviously it doesn't matter so you could be seeing some Some sector rotation in IRAs saying, yeah, you know, it's been a good year. And a lot of times you'll see a very speculative sector like quantum computing have a big rally. And that kind of is, okay, now that rally has extended to every single little nook and cranny in the tech sector. And now it's time to begin the selling. Sometimes that's the last little firework, you know, before things start to fall apart due to valuation. That's one theory. Another theory is, you know, I think there's going to be a lot of, there's a lot of people in the country and the government around the world that aren't happy that Trump's going to be the president. Will they try to sabotage him and cause trouble? You know, there is the theory that they won't, if they don't elect Johnson as the Speaker of the House before January 20th, they can't certify the election. Okay, that's another one I've heard. And, of course, I've heard a couple of congressmen that absolutely are not going to vote for Johnson. And guess what? They can't have one person. They can't have one person jump ship. They need every one of those boats. So, I mean, that's another theory that you get a little bit of chaos around the transition and everything. I think probably the most likely theory is that sector rotation taking place, selling off some of the red-hot sectors of 2024, but not in taxable accounts. That'll come. Now, that's the scary part. That could come after the first of the year when we come back to work on Thursday. You could see some heavy selling then from the taxable accounts. And, you know, which mostly have big gains in them. And, of course, they're putting off their big gains until the 2025 tax year. So that's another one. So anyways, you know, the Magnificent Seven are bleeding. Tesla's bleeding right now. Palantir's bleeding. Facebook, all of them, Microsoft, etc., And, you know, I mean, I'm thankful for, at this time of year, I'm thankful for inverse funds, and I have more at my fingertips than I've ever had before. I had some free time a little bit on, let's see, Saturday, I guess. And I did add every single inverse fund that I could find. I added it to my database. And there's a lot of new ones, okay, between GraniteShares and Direction. Direction has a lot of single stock inverse funds. Now, they have some that GraniteShares doesn't have. GraniteShares has a lot that Direction doesn't have. I found a Magnificent Seven inverse fund. Let's say you own, which we do. We own a lot of those Magnificent Seven stocks. I could hedge the whole darn thing. The only issue is the liquidity. Some of those funds aren't big enough, don't have enough money in them. I have to look at the volume that they trade. It would be hard for me. But there are some very large inverse funds. NASDAQ, obviously, would be an obvious one. And NASDAQ two times inverse would be an obvious one. I don't really like the three times inverses. If you look at the math on those things, I mean, they're only good for a week or less maybe, and then it starts getting pretty fuzzy. Yes, it gets pretty fuzzy, the math. You would think, okay, so, you know, in theory, you would say, well, if over the next three months the NASDAQ goes down 20%, The three times inverse NASDAQ would go up 60%, but it doesn't quite work that way, okay? Almost, but not quite. I mean, you might get 45%, and you could even get an adverse kind of a situation, depending on how the math works out, and especially how the volatility works out. But anyways, okay, we had another crash. It did happen to be a Boeing this time. Okay, the one in Russia was an Embraer, which are made in Brazil. And I don't think it was the Embraer's fault. I think a missile, an anti, you know, what do they call those? Defense, an air defense missile brought that thing down.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, it was filled with bullet holes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and bullet holes. Which almost makes, so they might have been fired from the ground, I guess. It looked like a machine gun. because you didn't see really an f-35 or whatever what do you call mig a Russian mig pull up next to it and riddle it unless there was somebody very important on that on that plane now the South Korea plane was a Boeing 737 which is a little bit worrisome I'm just going to look at Boeing stock today was it a Boeing issue it was something with the landing gear I mean, they tried to blame bird strikes on the Russian one. And the Boeing one, okay, the South Korea crash, they don't know what did it. And I will say this, that's one of the big reasons that the Dow is down so much is Boeing is a big constituent of the Dow. Boeing's down 4.2% today until they figure out. South Korea is going to inspect all of the Boeing 737s through the 800 series after the deadly crash. And really all we know is it looked like there was an issue with the... with the landing gear. Okay, and there was a bird strike of some sort that got jammed up in the landing gear and they couldn't deploy the landing gear. But, you know, I don't know. The pilot, he came down on that runway and he had no brakes at all. Didn't he hit a wall? Yeah, and at the end of the landing strip there was a wall, which is really crazy that they have a wall there. So anyways, we'll see. That wasn't good. I don't know how two of the crew survived. I mean, they must have maybe, who knows, jumped out on the run tarmac, opened the door. I don't know how the two crew members survived, but that'll be interesting. Okay, on a lighter note, now my grandkids went and saw Sonic the Hedgehog. They didn't invite me. That took in $38 million. But the one that I'm really interested in, I want to see A Complete Unknown, which took in $11.6 million. That's the story of Bob Dylan in his early years back in New York. And I've heard a review from my brother, who is a big Bob Dylan fan. He said it was fantastic. We'll be right back. This is Bill Gunderson. Thank you for tuning in to today's Best Stocks Now, Best Inverse Funds Now show. I put several hours of research in during the wee hours of the morning each day to bring you the very best cutting edge stories that I can. To get two free weeks of my newsletter, go to GundersonCapital.com. To talk to us about our fee-based only money management services, call us at 855-611-BEST. Now, back to the second half of the show.
SPEAKER 05 :
And welcome back here to the second half of today's Best Docs Now show. One other theory.
SPEAKER 03 :
conspiracy theory no not really i mean there's usually a reason there's usually a reason catalyst of some sort behind buying or selling whether it be in an individual stock or whether it be in indexes the debt limit was suspended for two years okay that was they kicked the can down the road how many times have they kicked the can down the road well guess what that two-year And suspension, it will be over, let's see, I saw this this morning because Janet Yellen says U.S. debt limit will be reached in mid-January. Okay, so the debt limit will kick back in and it's going to come back in. at where it left off okay and we're already over that so we've got the debt limit will be reached so they've got to extend the debt limit or everything comes to a screeching halt and that's going to cause a lot it's not going to be a smooth process Market doesn't like things that are not smooth, that are rough. And, you know, obviously they're going to have to extend the debt. They're going to have to increase the debt limit. There's no way around that. Because the budget that, you know, that is in place right now, the spending that is in place right now takes in $4 trillion and spends $6 trillion. So obviously you've got to increase the debt limit by $2 trillion every year until... you start cutting into that, right, trying to move towards a balanced budget, which is not an easy thing to do. And it takes time. So there's going to be a massive fight on that. And that could also be an issue. You just see kind of we're entering into a time, Jeff, with the new regime coming in. But, you know, look, Trump is a lightning rod. People either love him or they hate him. And they're going to do what they can do to mess things up. Schumer's not going to just go along and make things easy for Trump. And Trump tried to get the debt limit taken out of the budget negotiations there before they funded the government to avert a shutdown. But Schumer would have nothing to do with that. He wants the debt limit, raising the debt limit on Trump's watch, not on the Democrats' watch.
SPEAKER 06 :
As we talk about politics, I mean, of course, yesterday, former President Jimmy Carter passed away. He was 100 years old, the oldest living former president, whether you like his politics or not. He was the longest living president. You know, George Herbert Walker Bush was the second, followed by Ford Reagan, ironically, the fifth longest living president. was John Adams, who was the second president. All right.
SPEAKER 03 :
He's still living?
SPEAKER 06 :
90 years of age. Still living?
SPEAKER 03 :
No. 90 years? No, no, not living.
SPEAKER 06 :
He was 90 years old when he received.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, that's pretty good, too, because that time period, I mean, it was probably more in the mid-60s range or so.
SPEAKER 06 :
Exactly. He would have been 130 in dog years, if you will. John F. Kennedy, youngest president to die at age 46. Just a little bit of presidential trivia. There were eight U.S. presidents that died while serving in office.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, let's hope Trump isn't nine, you know, I mean, the way things are going. Anyways, we have what I was going to say. Carter actually became more popular after his presidency because when I think of his presidency, I remember I'm a little older than you, Jeff. I remember the long gas lines, number one. I remember the Iran hostage crisis, which Reagan solved within the first few weeks of his presidency. And I also remember 18-19% inflation and him having to bring in the big guy Volcker to put us into a recession.
SPEAKER 06 :
It was stagflation is what they called it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Stagflation. That's what I remember Carter for. And then, of course, you know, he was a good Christian man with his Habitat for Humanity, and he taught his Sunday school and all this and that. But at the core, I think he was pretty much a social, leaned very heavily towards socialism.
SPEAKER 06 :
Definitely a social democrat. He actually established the U.S. Department of Energy and the Department of Education. I'm sure the DOE, Department of Education there, is in the crosshairs of Elon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, absolutely. They want to get rid of it and give it back to the states, which I think is a good idea rather than having a federal government run the education of all of our people. children that i think it should go back to the states and that's that's my opinion on that okay now yeah so anyways yellen says u.s debt limit to be reached in mid-january okay that's another problem you saw how much it was not easy getting that spending bill passed to keep the government uh open or open uh you know through i think they're good till march now Okay, and we're having some changes in the Federal Reserve. We're getting three hawks and one dove, and a partridge in a pear tree. I don't know how he'll vote, but FOMC, three hawks. Okay, so you're not going to see any rate cuts in January. You know, maybe May, June, we'll just have to see, okay? All right, now... Tariffs, obviously, are out there on the horizon also, which is another thing to be worried about. China, I saw a prediction from, there's a very well-known economist that works for Apollo. Apollo is a private company. equity like Blackstone or BlackRock or one of those. And their strategist is Torsten Slocke, who's pretty well known. And I was looking at his outlooks for this coming year. He mentioned tariffs. He says NVIDIA's earnings are going to disappoint. All right, we'll see. He also says the U.S. economy will reaccelerate and animal spirits come back. Well, that's fine. But the market's at a very high level right now from a valuation point of view.
SPEAKER 06 :
Phil, ironically, NVIDIA is one of the few notable securities right now that's in the green today.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, hey, okay, things are happening. That's good. Okay, he also says that you could have an outright recession in China and an outright recession in Germany. And he gives the probability of a recession in the U.S. in 2025, 0%. How do you like that? I can't see Trump putting us into a recession unless outside events should occur. Okay, what else do we got here? Well, you got this debate over the H-1B visas for foreign workers. You know, most of those H-1B, aren't we talking India? Aren't we talking software developers and whatnot, the Hewlett Packards of the world? You were in the software industry. My friend Douglas was in the software industry. He worked with many people. And you go to San Francisco, there's Indian restaurants all over the place, right? What's your thoughts on the H-1B visas? Do we have enough talent here in the U.S.? I mean, Indians start learning in India pretty much software development from birth, kind of like Dominican Republic and baseball. What are your thoughts on this H-1B visas?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I think I've worked with a lot of good people that held that status. I also spent some time with an organization that We provided, we placed people, and a number of those individuals held H-1B visas. And, of course, it can be very tenuous if they end up losing that visa. You know, they have to get out of Dodge. Unlike some other... folks from other countries, they would actually leave as opposed to, you know, try to hide under the covers. But, yeah, a lot of good, smart people. We do have a lot of great talent here in the U.S. The question is, are talented people willing to do that? Are there other things that they want to do? Certainly the H-1B visa holders are folks that say, hey, look, I'm happy to roll up my sleeves. I'm happy to contribute. And they do good work.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, the question is, it sounds like there's a shortage. That's the gist I get. Trump is for the H-1B. Musk is against it. But I think Trump will win out there. Musk himself worked out as an H-1B at one point in time in his career. So anyway, Google CEO asked employees to brace for challenging 2025. And he's talking more on the regulatory front where you could, I don't know. Look, there's no way you can say that these companies aren't monopolies, huge monopolies. Will they come after them? Could it be a crazy year in big tech? Could that be another reason? But I think Trump's going to be more friendly to tech myself. Okay, when we come back, we're going to take a look underneath the surface of the market. I left my snorkel and mask somewhere in my office. You've got to go where you want to go.
SPEAKER 04 :
Do what you want to do. And then whoever you want to pay for.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back here to the final segment of today's Best Stocks Now show. Well, I would like to say that the market's improved. It's improved a little, not much. The Dow is still down 625, and the NASDAQ is down 320 points. We came up with a few theories. I think the overvalued theory is probably the best one. That's the one I put forth. on Friday, on Saturday, when I stopped, paused, thought about it, reflected on it, and I said, you know, it's been two years since I wrote that NASDAQ article. I went back and referred to it, read it, and most importantly, I compared the valuations of the NASDAQ two years ago to where they are today, and it was quite telling. And, you know, I didn't sleep on Saturday night. No, I'm just kidding. But, you know, look, The NASDAQ could go higher from here. It could go a lot higher from here. You can't measure momentum and exuberance. And here you've got this guy from Apollo saying that exuberance is going to come back into the American economy. And what do they call it? Animal spirits is going to come back. Well, that would also bring animal spirits to the market, too, although we've had a fair share of that in 2024. But, you know, valuation does matter. I'm a guy who was there in 2000. I remember visiting the Bay Area, you know, during the frothy days of the NASDAQ in the late 90s. I've called on several hedge fund managers that were all tech. They were all tech. One of the guys was Apodaca. His dad was the governor of New Mexico at one point in time, Jerry Apodaca, and his son was a hedge fund manager. Man, they were all tech, and they had tech guys working for them. They were buying innovative disruptors back then. I've always kind of leaned in that direction, obviously. And then I saw it all come tumbling down like Humpty Dumpty who sat on the wall. Humpty Dumpty fell. The NASDAQ went down 79%. They put Humpty Dumpty back together again. And now he's 20,000 after getting way down below 2,000, way below 2,000. I want to say the low in the NASDAQ, oh, it was 1,200, something like that. And now you are, again, at a very lofty level in the NASDAQ. And I will never forget that experience. You know how some things are emblazoned in your memory? I rode a horse one time when I was a little kid, and a dog came barking out in the street, barking at the horse. This was in Montana. And the horse dragged me for a couple of blocks, and I skinned up my knees and everything. And I've always been a little leery of getting on a horse ever since then. And the NASDAQ, I've always had that in the back of my mind, is the valuation of those tech stocks. Okay, if we look at the, you're right, I mean, the Dow, that's the only stock up in the Dow is NVIDIA. Go figure. Volume is really light today. And that's another thing. I can't really make a good judgment call on the NASDAQ until we really get back to full strength next Monday. Okay. I think the first several days of January could kind of be telling. And I think the first five days actually could be a little bit on the rough side because I think people have been putting off, putting off, putting off, taking those capital gains until the new tax year. Okay, so NVIDIA is up. The biggest loser in the Dow right now is poor Boeing. Boeing has just had a rough year. And yet, you know, I drove by Boeing's plant yesterday. Yesterday or Saturday? Saturday. Saturday. It's loaded with planes ready for delivery, Jeff. I mean, we're talking 20 planes there in their parking lot?
SPEAKER 06 :
It's always one of my favorite things to do when I go to the airport is to see which airline from which foreign country has something there in that parking spot closest to the street. And I'm thinking, okay, they're getting new interiors. Yeah, Lufthansa's there right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, so Boeing is down 3.3. Nike, which has had a terrible year. I don't like consumer discretionary right now. In fact, that chart on consumer discretionary, it had a good year, consumer discretionary. It's fallen off a cliff right now. Nike's down 2% on the Dell. Now, as we go to the S&P 500 and look inside that index, I just wouldn't be an index investor this year, although maybe, I don't know, maybe it'll smooth out the ride a little bit. There's just a lot of bad stocks in that S&P 500. That's my issue with it. The biggest loser there, solar, Enphase, down 5.7%. Lee Jeans, which I believe is VF Corp., down 4.8%. They do other things. They do uniforms, etc. Kohl's is down 4.4%. There's that consumer discretionary. There is an inverse fund on consumer discretionary, SCC. And I actually have a small position, inverse consumer discretionary. Haynes Brands, another consumer discretionary, down 3.6. Macy's down 3.5. Well, at least it's more consumer discretionary than it is tech that's bringing down the market today. On the upside, Really, the only up sector, and I wrote this in my newsletter on Friday. I said, you know, the one that's putting in a bottom is the energy sector. And those are the stocks that are up today in the S&P. EQT is up, Devon Energy, APA, which used to be Apache, Diamondback Energy, Occidental Petroleum. My only issue with the energy patch is the weakness in China, which is dampening demand. But we'll see. The worst sector in the market today is retail. in the best sector in the market today is oil and gas very light boy
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, most of the retailers will be reporting at the end of January.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER 06 :
Or not reporting, but that's when their fiscal years will end so they can kind of take all that holiday coverage. And so they typically delay their fiscal year by a month.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 06 :
They don't delay it, but they offset it.
SPEAKER 03 :
They want to include their returns, too, in January. Return-a-wary. They call it return-a-wary.
SPEAKER 06 :
It will be interesting to see what happens with those guys.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah, okay. But suffice it to say, it's not going to get any better for bricks and mortar in 2025. You're going to continue to see more companies go belly up. All right, well, we're out of time. I'm just amazed at the response we've gotten from the four free weeks of... of the live trading. People from all over the world are joining me on a daily basis and we're having nothing but fun. I just did a buy here and sent it out during the show. Join us, won't you? Go to GundersenCapital.com GundersenCapital.com or make an appointment with one of my staff here to talk about your portfolio. 855-611-BEST 855-611-BEST Have a great day, everybody.
SPEAKER 02 :
This show is not a solicitation to buy or sell any securities. Bill Gunderson or clients of Gunderson Capital Management may have long or short positions in stocks mentioned during the show. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. Gunderson Capital Management is a fee-based registered investment advisory firm. All accounts are held at Charles Schwab. Schwab is a member of SIBC and FINRA.
Join Kim Munson as she delves into the pressing issues of our time, from the socialization of essential sectors to the stark contrasts between freedom and force. This episode invites listeners to reflect on the power dynamics at play in government policies, how they affect our daily lives, and the critical need for independent voices in media.
SPEAKER 16 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 13 :
The socialization of transportation, education, energy, housing, and water. What it means is that government controls it through rules and regulations.
SPEAKER 16 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 13 :
Under this guise of bipartisanship and nonpartisanship, it's actually tapping down the truth.
SPEAKER 16 :
Today's current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 13 :
On an equal field in the battle of ideas, mistruths and misconceptions is getting us into a world of hurt.
SPEAKER 16 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 13 :
Indeed, let's have a conversation and welcome to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You're each treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence. Take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. Thank you to the team. That's Producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Happy Monday, Producer Joe. Happy Monday, Kim. How was your break? It was great. It was nice to get some respite and get a lot done. How about you, Joe?
SPEAKER 07 :
I felt the same way. I rested a lot.
SPEAKER 13 :
And that's great because we've got a lot of work to do as we're looking forward into 2025. We will be pre-recording for Wednesday, which is New Year's Day, with Susan Harris, who she and her family are great sponsors of the show. And we'll talk about looking forward into 2025, both personally and for our country. And then Trent Luce will also be pre-recording with him as well. So I cannot believe, Joe, that 2025 is... is here and it seems like the the last year just went so quickly this is the fastest year i've ever had And you're young. They shouldn't be going by so quick. I think it's because each day it is just these great conversations with so many experts. I'm learning a lot. I know you're learning a lot. We hope that we are bringing this to you, the listener, that you're learning a lot as well. And we really do appreciate each and every one of you. So check out the website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays that comes out on Sundays. You can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com. as well. The text line is 720-605-0647. Thank you to all of you who support us. We are an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. It's never compassionate to take other people's stuff, whether or not it's their rights, their property, freedom, livelihoods, opportunities, or lives be a force. And force can be a weapon, but it's policy, unpredictable and excessive taxation, fear, coercion, government-induced inflation, the World Economic Forum agenda, along with all the globalist elites, the United Nations, the Colorado State Legislature, the Colorado governor, the World Health Organization, land use code, zoning regulations, force fees, conservation easements, and the list goes on and on. And... We've got to get this turned back around. These are all forced kinds of things. And remember, if something's a good idea, you should not have to use force to implement it. On the show, we focus on the issues, not the personalities. We will talk about the people pushing those particular issues, but we want to stay focused on that and not get in the eighth-grade girl fighting that we can see happen in politics on a regular basis. The show comes to you 6 to 8 p.m. Monday through Friday a.m. And the first hour is rebroadcast one to two in the afternoon. Second hour is broadcast 10 to 11 at night. And that's on all KLZ 560 platforms, which is KLZ 560 a.m. KLZ 100.7 FM, the KLZ website, and the KLZ app, and then also podcasts of the shows can be heard on the streaming services as well. Our word of the day is earnest, and it is spelled E-A-R-N-E-S-T, and it should be easy to use this in a sentence today. So number one, it's a noun. It could be a serious and intent mental state. So the example is a proposal made in earnest. number two a considerable or impressive degree or amount it says the example is the sap started running in earnest number three it could be something of value given by a buyer to a seller to bind a bargain so earnest money say in a real estate deal or it could be a token or a pledge so your challenge is to use earnest in a sentence today that's e-a-r-n-e-s-t and our quote of the day is from John F. Kennedy. And I chose this because we'll be talking with Dan Meyer as our featured guest in this hour. And his book is Upside Down, How We Can Avoid Becoming the United States of China. And so JFK was born in 1917. He died in 1963. He was assassinated. He was the youngest person ever elected president, and he served at the height of the Cold War. And he was a Democrat, and he represented Massachusetts in both houses of the United States Congress prior to his presidency. And he said this, he said, the cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender or submission. Okay, next thing, this day in history. 1809, wearing masks at balls were forbidden in Boston. I don't know how many of you watched the halftime show for the football game on Christmas. I actually turned it off. uh but uh beyonce was the halftime entertainment and they walked her through a guy had a horse and was leading the horse she was on the horse and a guy was leading the horse and he had a mask on and i thought you know what i cannot believe that this is in 2024 the guy has a mask on doing that what kind of message is that trying to send to people and then She and J-Lo have been pretty close to nasty stuff going on with Jay-Z and Sean Diddy Combs. And I just, you know, it's coming out. Just a lot of really nasty stuff that these people are doing. And I'm just not jazzed about watching it anymore. Joe, you're a young guy. What do you think about this? Because as these stories are coming out about Diddy Jay-Z and just nasty stuff. You've got your ear to the ground. What do you hear?
SPEAKER 07 :
I might have a little more of a tinfoil hat, but I've always thought that Hollywood society has had some weird things going on in the background that we just don't know about because high society has secrets.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and, you know, I think the truth is coming out on all this, Joe. And I think these people were held up as great artists. And I remember listening to or looking up the lyrics of one of Beyonce's songs. And I'm like, this is nasty. This is not art. This is just nasty. And I think that it's been an effort to.
SPEAKER 07 :
kind of brainwash people into to thinking nasty stuff is okay and i i think that i think that we're going to get this this turned around with the the truth coming out on this joe i think so too and i i i don't necessarily think all of them are really great artists i think a lot of them are really great business people and that's what really got them to where they're at
SPEAKER 13 :
Really, promoters, I think you're right. I think you're right. So anyway, I turned it off. I'm like, I am not interested in watching this. And so I turned that off. So a bunch of really interesting things, though, in this day in history. And I think, my friends, it's important to look back in history and understand that. Of course, we'll talk about some headlines as well. But first thing, 1903, the American Political Science Association is founded in New Orleans. And so after the Civil War, that's where we really started to see this progressive movement. Of course, it culminated with the presidency of Woodrow Wilson in the teens. But I found it, I thought, this is interesting. This has been a long progression. uh and not in progress but a long progression to get us to the point where we are now and i had talked to marley hornick she was one of our our guests last week that we had featured and she is a co-founder of united sovereign americans and i said to her i said i really think that we are in the third founding of america And she said, huh, I hadn't thought about it like that. But it's been a long, long time in getting to this point. But we are in this extreme battle of ideas. And that's why we do the show is so that we can engage in this battle of ideas so that we can reclaim our country. Now. Global warming. Of course, global warming has now been called climate change. And of course, we'd recommend that you watch A Climate Conversation, which you can watch it for free at aclimateconversation.com. And then we have put together some really great podcasts with scientists and experts as well that you will find. gain even more understanding of this particular issue. And I'd asked our last guest, I said, so what is the perfect temperature and who decides what that is? And so this whole thing is really about control. But when the earth is cool, Plants don't thrive, means we don't have as much food for us, for animals. And so I thought this was interesting how cold this has been in our country as well. So in 1917, negative 32 degrees Fahrenheit in Mountain City, Tennessee, which was a state record, and a negative 37 degrees Fahrenheit the same year in Lewisburg, West Virginia. That's pretty cold for there. And then there was a couple others. I'll mention those. This is 1933, negative 50 degrees Fahrenheit in Bloomfield, Vermont, a state record. And in 1968, negative 48 degrees Fahrenheit in Mazama and Winthrop, Washington. I think when you look at those temperatures, Joe, a little global warming is probably a good idea. What do you think?
SPEAKER 07 :
It definitely sounds like it to me.
SPEAKER 13 :
So, yeah. Oh, there was one other one here. 1995, the lowest ever UK temperatures were recorded at 27 degrees point two Celsius in the Scottish Highlands, equaling the record set in Aberdeenshire on February 11th, 1895 and January 10th, 1982. So, again, with these kinds of temperatures, that's why they had to change. the narrative from global warming to climate change. So a couple of other things. In 1922, the creation of the USSR was formally proclaimed in Moscow from the Bolshoi Theater. It was organized as a union of Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian and Transcaucasian Soviet Socialist Republic. That was 1922. 1941, during World War II, the Nazis require Dutch physicians to join the Nazi organization. And then it was in 2021 on this day, there was the wildfire over in Boulder. Now I can't remember the name of it, but it destroyed a thousand homes. And that was just in 2021. So, yeah, this day in history, a lot has happened. The show comes to you because of our sponsors, and I thank LearnMe Energy for their goal sponsorship of this show. It is reliable, efficient, affordable, and abundant energy that powers our lives and fuels our hopes and dreams. And that industry is so under attack here in Colorado, both from a legislative standpoint and also from an administrative standpoint. And so that's why we need to shed light on this, because it is this reliable, efficient, affordable and abundant energy that powers our lives, that we're able to control our own personal climate. And that would be to be warm in the winter and cool in the summer. And all of that is under attack. And then also the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance team is wonderful sponsors of the show. They carry my home and auto insurance. And if you bundle it together, you may be able to save a lot of money. If you put your home and your auto and boat, anything like that, if you bundle that together, you might be able to save a lot of money. The way to find out is to give them a call at 303-795-8855 and make a complimentary appointment. Like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan team is there.
SPEAKER 01 :
So I switched my insurance to the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Agency. Get this, I actually talked to Roger Mangan, who has been helping people with their insurance coverage in our community for 47 years. He helped me create a State Farm personalized price insurance plan for my home and auto and explained affordable options. For personalized service and peace of mind that you are working with a team that cares about you and your family, call Roger Mangin now at 303-795-8855. Kim highly recommends the Roger Mangin State Farm Insurance Team. Again, that number is 303-795-8855.
SPEAKER 06 :
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SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter and you can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. My friends, as we are looking forward to 2025, and I have a couple of things that I would highly recommend. One of those is to at least visit Liberty Toastmasters. And Liberty Toastmasters Denver meets the first and third Saturdays of each month at the Independence Institute. And Liberty Toastmasters North meets in Longmont the second and fourth Saturdays. Saturdays of each month. And being able to communicate is so important. It takes practice. It takes thought. I am recommitting myself to Liberty Toastmasters this year. I had missed quite a bit during this last election season. And I realize that I need to continue to try to get better at my communication skills. So I'd love to have you join us on that. So that's the first thing. And if you decide you're going to run for office or you're going to help a candidate or you're going to make public comments at the school board at the city council county commissioner meetings down at the state house need to be able to get your thoughts together and be able to communicate in concise effective manner and i really would recommend that you join us For Liberty Toastmasters, you can't just snap your finger and all of a sudden be a good communicator. It takes time and it takes practice. And the speaking component is important. The table topics is important, which we have on the show on a regular basis. But also the whole evaluation thing, I think, has really served me the best in being able to put thoughts together in in a manner when you're in a back and forth with others and so check out Liberty Toastmasters would love to have you join us next thing we will be having our legislative kickoff January 23rd for the Colorado Union of taxpayers we would really recommend that you join us as well it's $25 to join the event will be down at the Colorado Automobile Dealers Association And the cost is $10 to join us for that. And you will, for $25, so basically $2 a month, you will receive hours and hours of work from our volunteers as we have gone through the legislation that is proposed and scheduled for hearing. And so instead of just these headlines, you'll really be able to see the guts of what is happening down at the Statehouse. And I want to say thank you to this team that I get to work with, all volunteers, Steve Dorman, Greg Golianski, Russ Haas, Bill Hamill, Carl Honiger, Rob Knuth, John Nelson, Joseph O'Loughlin, Wendy Warner, Marty Nielsen, Ramey Johnson, and Mary Jansen. If you are interested in joining us on rating bills and might be interested in joining our board, please text me at 720-605-0647. I'd like to add three more people in to our board to rate bills. And so text me at 720-605-0647. And I would love to chat with you about that. Let's get through some of these headlines here. And the first headline I think that many of you have seen is Jimmy Carter, this is USA Today, 39th U.S. President, and they said, and noted humanitarian. And again, this is, that is their opinion. He was also, he was the president that gave up control of the Panama Canal. And of course, Trump has been talking about we need to regain control of the Panama Canal. And then he's Trump's out there saying we might annex Canada, Greenland. Certainly. Certainly interesting talking points there. But it was Carter that gave up the control of the Panama Canal. Certainly want to rest in peace. I think that I think that he was I'm going to just say naive. He was really, I think, one of those progressive presidents used a lot of. force, I would say, for humanitarian causes. And our country was in a very difficult position when he was president, just like we are now with the Joe Biden-Harris administration. And the great thing about it, though, is we can reclaim this. We can get this turned around. That's why I think so many people are looking forward to 2025. But certainly a rest in peace, Jimmy Carter. And I do thank him for his service to the country. Next thing many of you have seen. This was unbelievable over Christmas break. And that is, is people being set on fire in New York. And this is from Fox News. It says Trump borders are blast the New York governor for touting subway safety hours after horrific murder. Says shame on you. And apparently an illegal alien set someone on fire. And then there was another one. And this was a few days later, says the New York Police Department. This is from Fox News investigates after a homeless man catches fire in the Manhattan subway station. And I used to go back to New York on a regular basis. I was in the ladies' clothing business and would go back for the introduction of each of the new seasons. And I didn't really like to ride the subway, but I did, but I would not ride the subway now. And, of course, Daniel Penny, who was the Marine veteran who – A homeless man who was making all kinds of threats to people on the subway was brought up on charges. And so here is somebody that is trying to protect people. And fortunately, he was exonerated on this. But the fact that they would even bring charges against him is beyond belief. So New York police. Apparently, Eric Adams, the mayor, is going to try to get a handle on this. But but it is it's pretty tough stuff. And of course, Kathy Hochul is one of those progressive government governors who really I don't think she cares about the people. Next thing. This is from Fox News again. A Texas judge blocks Biden's sales of the border wall and the Biden-Harris administration on their way out. They've parroted that there's going to be a smooth transition to the Donald Trump presidency, but they are putting all kinds of marbles in front of the administration to try to prevent their success. And the idea that he would sell off the border wall steel. at cents on the dollar. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, this is from Newsmax, Biden announces $2.5 billion in fresh military aid to Ukraine. So trying to secure their border. Meanwhile, ours is wide open and even preventing the border wall from being built. It is truly unbelievable. And then this is super interesting, though. And this is the again, Fox News, MSNBC host Rule and Read are taking pay cuts following their major rating slump. And It says if they want to remain with their network, the MSNBC host Joy Reid and Stephanie Ruhl may have to take these pay cuts. It says MSNBC has been looking to negotiate new deals and they've been asked to reduce their salaries. So this whole thing with mainstream media, which has been really indoctrinating people. I was on a walk yesterday and ran into one of my neighbors yesterday. who said that she has a friend who is Democrat and wanted to know how, this friend wanted to know how my friend could support Trump. And then in the conversation, I think basically they realized, my friend realized that they only watch this mainstream media. And I have many colleagues whose family members or friends only watch mainstream media. and really are so indoctrinated for a hatred for Donald Trump and really not tolerant to take a look at any other points of view. And so anyway, though, I think that mainstream media is losing its effect. And we're seeing this with these two women having to negotiate pay cuts. A couple of other things that I did want to mention, and all this happened over Christmas break. First of all, I needed to mail some things on, I guess it was Saturday, after the post offices were closed. And there is a reason why the post office is losing billions of dollars. I go to the first post office, my local post office, and the line is really long. And this was for the automated, where you could buy stamps or mail a package. So the line was long. I thought, okay, I'm headed this other way. So I went to another post office. And I've seen this happen before. And that is somebody has used that automated after hours system and put something in and it jammed the post. um where you could put the packages so that meant that i couldn't mail anything there so i thought okay i'm going to go to i have to go to another place i'll go to another post office well they didn't have the after hours automated system so i went back to the first place by that time i'd done all my errands and there was one other woman there and myself And she said, are you needing to buy stamps? And I said, no. She said, well, I needed to buy stamps. And it is doing a little metered stamp one at a time. And she had to buy 100 stamps. So that was ineffective. And if this was private enterprise, they would not stay in business. So there is a reason government typically doesn't do things really, really well. I think they should probably put Chick-fil-A in charge of post offices and we would be able to get very fast service. Next thing, I was at Whole Foods and I looked over and there was on a corner, there was a guy with a sign, looked like a very able-bodied man. And his wife was sitting in a lawn chair next to him with maybe a baby or a child. And then there were two teenage daughters sitting on lawn chairs as well with cell phones. And I thought, what is wrong with this picture? Instead of trying to figure out a way to do value for value, how can I do work that you would pay me for? than instead just out there begging and how is it that those girls are able to afford those cell phones? Well, I think it's us. And I was talking to a millennial over the break and maybe leaned a little more to the left and he said, you know what, I'm just about over the free stuff. And I think Americans really are about over all of the free stuff. I'm really excited, though, when we come back from break, we're going to be talking with Dan Meyer regarding his book, Upside Down, How We Can Avoid Becoming the United States of China. We have these important discussions because of our wonderful sponsors for everything residential real estate, whether or not buying a home, selling a home, looking at a new build. Talk to Karen Levine.
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SPEAKER 15 :
All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 13 :
back to the kim munson show be sure and check out our website that is kim munson mon son.com sign up for our weekly email newsletter and you can email me at kim kimmunson.com as well thank you to all of you who support us we're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force force versus freedom if something's a good idea you should not have to force people to do it Text me at 720-605-0647. Would love to hear from you. And please tap on the line with me, Dan Meyer. He's the author of the book, Upside Down, How We Can Avoid Becoming the United States of China. He says freedom cannot exist in the absence of truth. Dan Meyer, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, good morning. You are very perky for 6.33 in the morning, I must say.
SPEAKER 13 :
That's my job to be perky at 6.33 in the morning.
SPEAKER 18 :
Do you get up at 3.30? How many cups of coffee do you have before you get to this level?
SPEAKER 13 :
Both.
SPEAKER 18 :
Good answer. That's wonderful.
SPEAKER 13 :
So this is an important book. And is this the first book that you've written, Dan?
SPEAKER 18 :
The first and only.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 18 :
I know. I'm working on a second about trying to destroy the myth of the woke. The woke is a joke as far as I'm concerned. All of this go-along-to-get-along stuff and just kind of slide through life, that's got to stop. So I'm trying to write a second book, but the problem is it's about 1,000 pages, and I don't know how to cut it down.
SPEAKER 13 :
That's the tricky component of it. And you have such an interesting career, but you were in the automotive business with GM for many years. And freedom of mobility, the open road, is one of the things that I think is so important. And everyday people being able to go where they want to, when they want to, has been really a source of freedom. That whole thing is under attack now. But but you you learned a lot in all those years in the automotive business.
SPEAKER 18 :
I did. You know, I started out in 1977 with Chevrolet Motor Division and was in Los Angeles for over 20 years. And L.A. is the most competitive market in the world and the largest car and truck market in the world. If you survive that, you end up learning a lot. Donald J. Trump is an expert in real estate and has a lot of experience in business, but some of us have probably equal experience through the school of hard knocks in advertising, marketing, distribution, sales and service of Chevrolet cars and trucks. And it really taught you, it taught me anyway, that you never have success when you centralize anything. And I'll kind of get to the mobility part of it that you hit on. It's so absolutely critical to our way of life. But Detroit always wanted to pull field goals. into Detroit and centralize it, and you can't do field from Detroit. If you're in Los Angeles, you have to be in Los Angeles on the ground, knowing what the dealers and the customers want and need. When you centralize it in Detroit, you lose contact with everything that's important. You kind of turn your back on the customers and the owners, and you how this relates to my book and life in general is, is, um, the last four years, uh, I won't say who the president was supposed to be, but regardless of that, the last four years, everything was trying to be centralized in Washington, DC. And, uh, that's the fastest way to lose contact with you and me and all of, uh, the customers, who really aren't customers, we are the bosses. And centralized Washington, D.C. seems to have forgotten that simple little fact that everything we do supports them and they're supposed to support us back. So I guess my main, the main thing I learned is you have to be If you're going to be successful and you care about customers and people for any sales and service organization, including our government of buying for the people, that belongs to us. You can't run that from Washington, D.C., and you cannot run that from Detroit. It just doesn't work. Those of us in the field in the early 2000s warned Detroit that you know, don't tell us we're part of the team and then cut the sales force by 10%. You need to cut Detroit by 10 or 20 or 30% and add people to the field so that we have a contact with the consumer. They refused to do that. And in 2009, GM filed for, I guess it was Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which for what was at one point the biggest corporation in the world, and at one point had 50% of the U.S. market, to file bankruptcy is unheard of. But there were things like nepotism and other things internal to General Motors, but it was the attempt to centralize and control everything from Detroit that literally destroyed GM, and it's clawed its way back, thankfully, because I have a pension that I rely on from them. But the same thing translates, Kim, as you know, you can see this coming a mile away, is the exact same thing applies to Washington, D.C. You know, the government, the federal government, should be about the same size regardless of whether the population of the United States is 100 million or 300 million. It only takes so many people to man the border, which has been abandoned. It only takes so many people to be in the military, which has been turned on its head, unfortunately. So I just recoil at the thought that government can grow just because population grows. That's not true. It's absolutely not true. And I want to address your mobility. There's a reason why we hear about all these 15-minute cities, and I guess Britain is far worse than we are to try to control movement, control mobility, control your life. where you go, what you can buy, and on and on and on. But my wife and I love to go to South Glen, for example. There's some great places to eat left, but I would say over half of South Glen, which is supposed to be a 15-minute city, that's the idea, about half of it is shuttered. There's plywood in the windows, and, you know... It's just a failed attempt to control us, control our movements, and eradicate our freedoms that come from God and not man. So that's the mobility part. And I think it's, thank God, it's disintegrating under its own weight because it's just impractical. people in this country have tasted freedom. And we know freedom. We know mobility. We know how to make money through hard work. And when the government tries to sit on us, I think it largely, we don't have to protest in the street with a sign. It just fails if it's on the court because it's a bad idea to begin with.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and Dan, they keep throwing money, though, incentives at these terrible ideas. And Dan, I really think that, and I'm talking with Dan Meyer regarding his book, Upside Down, I really think that Colorado is at the tip of the spear. And there's a variety of reasons for that. But I think that the battle of ideas is right here and now. And this freedom of mobility, you see them trying to, in fact, there was a headline recently that I had pulled, let's see if I can find it. I can't find it right now, but basically it is that they're going to be using, again, trying to move us into transit and using that for social engineering. And I saw that when I was on city council. 2012 to 2016. And it took me a while to put my finger on what was happening. But they're using incentives. They're using federal dollars. And I think that we see the Biden-Harris administration trying to put all kinds of marbles in front of Donald Trump and his administration before they take office. And I think that Trump is really going to be making changes at the federal level. But what I think is going to happen, Dan, is that we're going to see at the local, the county and the state level here in Colorado, them pushing this radical activist agenda. And a lot of it's going to be with federal grant money. So I think one of the first things that we need to do, I'm calling it DOGE Colorado, Department of Government Accountability, is that we start as citizens, go through and take a look at all of this grant money that is being used to push these agendas, and you mentioned the WOKE agenda as well, and go to our local, county, and state representatives and say, we don't want to take that money anymore. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER 18 :
That's absolutely perfect. in any fight, I guess, or war, and we're in a war for the survival of the United States, which has become the divided states of America. Thank you very much, Washington, D.C. But in any fight or battle, if you take the weapons away from your enemy, you've won by default, and it's over. If we accept bribes from the federal government, which is just a redistribution of our wealth to begin with. And as far as I'm concerned, all taxation is theft, but I didn't say that. But to take our money and then give it back to us in the form of grants or whatever, I call them bribes, blackmail, lobbyists, out of control government, If we allow that to happen, then we've submitted to it. We need to stand up and refuse. And I'll go a couple steps further. We need to, it'd be nice if voters actually had the vote and we could rely on fair elections, and I'm talking about 2020 and I'm talking about Dominion and I'm talking about all the rest of it that happened here in Colorado. I believe Dominion's headquarters globally was here in Denver, we have problems and we have to disarm. And what you're talking about is disarming people who would sit on us, take away our God-given freedoms. And when I was writing the book, you know, if you want to find the truth, don't try to prove yourself right. Try to prove yourself wrong. And I tried to prove myself wrong about certain things. I hone in on global warming, climate change, for example. That's a green scam set to redistribute our wealth as government sees fit. It's all just bogus.
SPEAKER 13 :
And I'll give a plug again for our documentary, A Climate Conversation, which you can watch for free at aclimateconversation.com. And it has aired on Newsmax many different times. It's the project of Walt Johnson, who he just wanted to have a conversation about this whole narrative. So check out aclimateconversation.com. I'm talking with Dan Meyer. Upside Down is his book. Dan, where can people buy the book?
SPEAKER 18 :
People can buy the book at Amazon.com, BarnesandNoble.com online. My website is www.UpsideDownUS, and there's a purchase page there, and there's also some background on the book itself, how and why it was written. So just those three. I'd like to find somebody – My publisher is a self-publishing company called iUniverse, and it'd be helpful if I had a real publisher that could get hard copies into bookstores, but I don't have that luxury right now because the nature of the book, Upside Down, is so controversial that a lot of folks wouldn't. touch it with a used 10-foot pole.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 18 :
So that's an obstacle I have. But, yeah, you can get it at Amazon and Barnes & Noble online.
SPEAKER 13 :
And Dan Meyer, Meyer is spelled M-E-Y-E-R. We're going to continue the discussion here, but did want to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation, which you know that is a nonprofit that I dearly love. The memorial is located at 6th and Colfax in Golden. It was dedicated in 1977. It's time for a remodel. And you can get more information. You can contribute, make a year-end contribution, which is tax deductible by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That's usmcmemorialfoundation.org. And we get to do all this because of our sponsors. And for everything mortgages, reach out to Lorne Levy.
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SPEAKER 17 :
You'd like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Monson Show, but you can't remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim's website, kimmonson.com. That's Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 05 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
of the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. And do check out the Center for American Values. They're nonpartisan. They're nonpolitical. They focus on a couple of things, honoring our Medal of Honor recipients and telling their stories, and also these educational programs to reclaim honor, integrity, and patriotism for our country. And so that website is AmericanValueCenter.org. That's AmericanValueCenter.org. I'm talking with Dan Meyer regarding his book, Upside Down, How We Can Avoid Becoming the United States of China. Freedom cannot exist in the absence of truth. And Dan, as you start your book, You said this, our nation is dying. You know it. You feel it. The American people, we the people, have lost control of our own country. And I think that people have realized that. I think the election of 2024 is so important with Donald Trump being elected. However, the down ballot races, I'm concerned about that. But we at least are taking a big step here at the federal level. What do you see looking forward into 2025, Dan Meyer?
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, I see Donald Trump is known for waiting in the weeds for the perfect opportune time and then pouncing. I think it's going to be a whirlwind starting on January 21st. As a matter of fact, the whirlwind has already started. As far as I know, all the world leaders have contacted Donald Trump and As he says, the first time around, people avoided him because they kind of didn't know what to think or what to do about this businessman becoming president, for heaven's sakes, you know, a political non-politician. But his method is to sit, wait, look, and learn, and then, boom, at the right time, buy a building or buy a piece of ground or fix a nation. And I think the nation will be fixed post-haste. I fear right now I'm kind of like Robert Shaw, the captain of the boat in Jaws, when he talked about going into the water and having his mates eaten by sharks. And he was never more fearful than when the saving boat was five minutes away. That's how I feel, frankly. We've got a ways to go until January 20th, and I'm still laughing about your marbles in front of Trump, and that's what they're going to do. My question is, and guys like Dan Bongino's question is, how bad is it going to get before we're over the hump? And we've got to keep pressure on Congress and mayors and governors and whoever we can reach out to to say enough. You know, the people have spoken. If you try to block Trump or try to block the progress that we have mandated him to do, we're going to hold you accountable, whether you're primaried or whatever is going to happen to you. But I'm fearful right now for the next 30 days. And I pray to God every day that we make it to January 20th intact. But if we do and when we do, I should say, I think Trump is going to be a whirlwind. I think Ramaswamy and Musk, especially Kash Patel, I can't wait to see what he does with the FBI. My Lord. Talk about an out-of-control federal agency. I think it's going to happen fast. And I shouldn't say this fast and furious. It was an Obama gun-running into Mexico deal, but— For Trump, it will be fast and furious, I believe. And like I said, I pray to God that happens every day.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yes. And to that point, and I'll just reiterate this, though, what we're going to see is at the local level. Dan, I have seen this. Very well-meaning people have gotten on to city councils or county commissioners and They forget that they are representatives of the people and they start to think that they are the executives of this little municipality or county or whatever. They forget that they are working for the people. And so many times they're looking at driving revenue for the people. city or the county, when in essence that revenue that they're trying to drive is money of the people. So we need to remind them that they're representatives of the people and that it is the people's money and government needs to be limited not only at the federal level, but at all other levels as well. And that's even school boards, I would say, Dan Meyer.
SPEAKER 18 :
That's absolutely right. I'm in Douglas County. I'm in Highlands Ranch. And a friend of mine is a lady named Laura Thomas, who is one of the three county commissioners for Douglas County. The other two have been just persecuting her. I and a lady named Cindy Dalton and a group of us have traveled down to Castle Rock three, four, five, eight times, some of us, defended Laura because the other two commissioners are, like you say, they think they've got their own little fiefdom in Castle Rock, and that's not true. It's not your fiefdom. It's our turf. We pay for this stuff, and I guess my point here is I believe Laura Thomas is simply trying to do the most she can with the least amount of money, and the other two commissioners are supporting craziness like this 2050 water commission plan to pump water from southern Colorado to Denver. And, oh, my Lord, it just smacks of corruption and graft. And you're right, we've got to stand up with it, school boards, counties. I think the sheriffs are extremely important because they're They are grassroots and frontline, and I think the sheriffs are strong enough if a bad FBI agent comes into Douglas County, our sheriff can kick his butt out. So, yes, we've got the downstream stuff is absolutely crucial.
SPEAKER 13 :
So, Dan Meyer, we're out of time. But again, your book, Upside Down, Dan Meyer spelled M-E-Y-E-R. And people can buy this at Amazon and everywhere. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And thank you for sharing this book with me. I really do appreciate it, Dan Meyer.
SPEAKER 18 :
Thank you, Kim. You're the voice of truth. Keep going, please.
SPEAKER 13 :
Okay. Well, thank you. And yes, we're an independent voice. And again, that's Dan Meyer. His book is Upside Down. And our quote for the end of the show is from John F. Kennedy, JFK. He said, one person can make a difference and everyone should try. So today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you. God bless America. Stay tuned for hour number two.
SPEAKER 09 :
And I don't want no one to cry, but tell them if I don't survive, I was born.
SPEAKER 04 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 16 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 13 :
The socialization of transportation, education, energy, housing, and water, what it means is that government controls it through rules and regulations.
SPEAKER 16 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 13 :
Under this guise of bipartisanship and nonpartisanship, it's actually tapping down the truth.
SPEAKER 16 :
Today's current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 13 :
On an equal field in the battle of ideas, mistruths and misconceptions is getting us into a world of hurt.
SPEAKER 16 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 13 :
Indeed. Let's have a conversation. And welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You each are treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. And thank you to the team. That's Producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. It is Monday, Producer Joe. Happy Monday, Kim. Happy Monday. And two more days in 2024, and then 2025 is right around the corner. And we're looking forward with hope to 2025 to reclaim our country, to reclaim our state. Check out the website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly e-mail newsletter. You'll get the first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can e-mail me at kim at kimmunson.com. Our text line is 720-605-0647. And Dan – or excuse me, Dave – Thank you. I mentioned Colorado Union of Taxpayers, that we have a few openings on the board to help rate bills. And Dave, I will be giving you a call because he's responded. So if you might be interested in talking about that, 720-605-0647. Thank you to all of you who... Support us. We are an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to use force to implement it. And we focus on the issues and the people that are pushing them, not the personalities. We're really working hard to stay out of all the eighth grade fighting that can happen with eighth grade girl fighting, I should say. in politics. Our word of the day, let's get to that. Before we do that, we have great sponsors and Hooters restaurants, how I got to know them is a really important story about freedom and free markets and capitalism. and it occurred when I was on city council. You can find the whole story at my website. But Hooters Restaurants is a great place to watch the games and get together with friends. They have lunch specials Monday through Friday and happy hour specials, and you can find all those at my website as well. But they have five locations, Loveland, Aurora, Lone Tree, Westminster, and Colorado Springs, and I do thank them for their partnership here. So our word of the day is... is earnest. And it is spelled E-A-R-N-E-S-T. Your challenge is to use that in a sentence today. And it is a noun. That's first definition. It could be a serious and intent mental state. So a proposal made in earnest. Number two, a considerable or impressive degree or amount. So their example was the SAP started running in earnest. Number three, something of value given by a buyer or seller to bind a bargain. For example, earnest money in a real estate transaction. Or number four, it could be a token of what is to come, a pledge. So earnest, E-A-R-N-E-S-T. Your challenge is to use that in a sentence today. And my friends, this gets our brains going to try to be able to do this. That's the reason that I have put this online. into each show. And of course, it's something that we do at Liberty Toastmasters all of the time. Our quote of the day is from JFK, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He was born in 1917, died in 1963 from assassination. He was the youngest person ever elected president of the United States. He served at the height of the Cold War. And I chose this quote because of our guest in the first hour, Dan Meyer, and his book, Upside Down, How We Can Avoid Becoming the United States of China. And John F. Kennedy said this. He said, the cost of freedom is always high. But Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender or submission. We are in a time right now to reclaim our country, to reclaim our state. And we're earnestly in this battle of ideas that is raging right now. So again, the cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender or submission. And great sponsors of the show. I get to work with a lot of really great people, and I'm really blessed to do so. And I'm talking with Roger Mangan with the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team, and there is something that people are concerned about, but maybe confused about, and that is cyber security, Roger.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yes, Kim, it is the season for cyber breaches and cyber theft, for sure. So let me define cyber first as relating to our characteristics of a culture of computers, information technology, and virtual reality. So anything that deals with electronic communications becomes cyber. So I want to tell you a quick story about what happened to Roger and Alice Mangan. We applied for passports and went into a website. Roger actually did this. I should have probably not. But I got into this website and it showed an official government document to fill out to renew your passport. So I went in, did it. In that process, of course, I put my Social Security number, credit card numbers. It cost me $89 to fill out those applications for my wife and myself. Only later to find out that it was not the official website. And so panic struck, and it's like, okay, who has all this information? Well, after a lot of fretting, we were able to figure out this was a legitimate company, third-party vendor company. who was helping me fill something out that I didn't really need to pay them $89 to fill it out. I could have done it on my own. So they took the $89 and... I filled out the application, and I still had to go to the government to finish the work. And we're like, ooh, did I make a big mistake? So we froze our credit cards. We did all kinds of crazy things that we didn't really have to do. But my admonition to anybody listening here, be very careful. You can get... duped and suckered into something that looks obvious. If it's an email you don't recognize, don't open it. And if you really, depending on your age, if you're younger, this is probably automatic. But if you're a little older, I'd say 50 and over, you probably should get some help or some second opinions. But as far as cybersecurity, there's an endorsement you can put on your homeowner's policy with State Farm. It's $20 a year. It's worth the stress relief if you have an issue. It covers cyber attacks, pays for data recovery and system restoration costs. It will pay for cyber extortion if you do get extorted. It identifies you for restoration case management services. It identifies fraud expense reimbursements up to $50,000. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's amazing. So that includes, for example, that 50 would include the cost of obtaining credit bureau reports, fees for repayment of loans, grants, or other credit instruments. telephone and postage fees, notary and certain legal fees, $1,000 to take care of financial institution costs that you may be subjected to. gets into credit monitoring after the fact. So it's really, really worth your time as a consumer to call and find out if your company has that endorsement at that cost to add it to your homeowner's policy. $20 a year. I mean, $3 a month? No, not even that, $2 a month. It's worth it.
SPEAKER 13 :
It is worth it. I think I need to make sure that I've got that on mine, so I need to give you guys a call on that. Roger Mangy, what's the best way for people to reach you?
SPEAKER 14 :
You can call us at 303-795-8855. We would love to talk to you about... This and other things that you may wonder, do I have any gaps in my coverages? And we can certainly discover that for you and discuss solutions.
SPEAKER 13 :
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SPEAKER 17 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
and welcome back to the kim munson show be sure and check out our website that is kim munson m-o-n-s-o-n.com sign up for our weekly email newsletter you can email me at kim kimmunson.com as well and thank you to all of you who support us we're an independent voice we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force force versus freedom if something's a good idea you shouldn't have to force people to do it And I want to say thank you to Laramie Energy for their gold sponsorship of the show because it is reliable, efficient, affordable, and abundant energy from coal, natural gas, and oil that powers our lives and fuels our hopes and dreams. Very pleased to have on the line with me Nathan Wooster. He is a national politics reporter with the Epoch Times. Nathan, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you so much for having me again, Kim.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, it's good to have you and really interesting pieces that you are writing. But the first one that I wanted to chat with you about was Trump's freedom cities. And I love this idea of using federal land and creating new cities. But set this up for us, because I had not heard of this until I was looking through your articles.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, it's one of those proposals from Trump that really slipped through the cracks. He made a lot of them as part of his Agenda 47 on the campaign trail. And this is one that came during early 2023 at a point when he had not yet received the nomination. Indeed, there were many who doubted he could even be a serious contender at that point, given all the emerging and existent legal challenges he had at that time. So the Freedom Cities idea, it is still a little bit sketchy because he only released a video and there was a little bit of accompanying material produced. But basically the notion is, according to Trump, we could use something like one two hundredth of the federal land that the government has. And as a reminder, that's about 30 percent of the land mass in the United States, at least the lower 48 in Alaska and Hawaii, I believe. We could use just 325 million acres is what that would translate to, to potentially hold up to 10 billion. chartering contests to designate these, what he called, freedom cities. Basically, the notion is we would be able to build new cities that were chartered according to some set of rules that would make them less high regulation, perhaps lower tax, geared towards innovation and geared towards providing some sort of housing. Given the issues with the housing crisis, given what some would argue are significant issues with the American economy as a whole, was initially, at least in some quarters, dismissed as, well, kind of a fantastical notion. One of the more interesting, and we can get into this in more detail, but one of the more interesting conversations I had while putting together this article was I spoke with an expert on charter cities, a man named Jeff Mason, who in 2023, when this idea was new, said, well, this is going to be difficult to execute in the U.S. It's not a place for You can do things like this very easily. A lot of the federal land is not close to existing big cities, outlining a lot of reasonable concerns and possible issues. But then when I spoke to him again just a few weeks ago after Trump had been reelected, he said, well, no, it certainly seems like there is more now energy behind this proposal.
SPEAKER 13 :
I'm thinking for people, for example, we're in Colorado. We're in the Denver metro area. It's very expensive. And property taxes are attached to home values. And so we saw significant property tax increases throughout Colorado. And people are really getting squeezed out here in Colorado because of housing. So bringing new competition on. onto the market would more supply would would probably start to maybe reduce values of existing homes or what do you think about that nathan
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, you know, I think that one issue that has been brought up as a counterpoint by advocates of, you know, more conventional liberalization of housing policy would be to say, well, what if we just try to change some of the zoning that already exists in, yeah, certainly in places in California that's often raised as an issue. I can't speak to the specifics in Colorado, but yeah, it certainly seems that in the Front Range, in many of these other, you know, Greater Phoenix, for example, many of these other big urban corridors in the Mountain West area in particular, there has been this great increase in demand. Supply has not kept up. On the other hand, in the case of Colorado, certainly once you get into Wyoming, in the not too far away. You have places like Nevada, Idaho. There's lots of federal land that could be potentially included that would be pretty close to existing cities that would not be in the middle of nowhere. And in fact, there was a report analyzing a similar notion from Senator Mike Lee. The Joint Economic Committee Republicans estimated that In Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada, various other states, basically all of the housing crisis could, in theory, be addressed by using some federal land in this fashion.
SPEAKER 13 :
So would these be home ownership properties where people would actually own the land and also own their home? And I ask that question because I've seen out here in Colorado something called land trusts, which I don't like at all, where government owns the land underneath and people might own the home, but it's kind of like renting the land. I really like property rights and home ownership. So what's that look like?
SPEAKER 03 :
That is an incredibly good question, and it's one of the, I would say, unresolved active debates about what this would look like. I think, again, I spoke to another person in the D.C. policy world. I'm not going to name him, but he told me, well, this is an interesting idea, but we are not going to weigh in formally until there's more meat on the bone. And that would mean something like articulating, okay, is this going to be land that's just ultimately owned by the government, but leased in perpetuity? Is it going to be fully auctioned off? And is this going to be something that is no longer federal land in any sense whatsoever? I think it is going to be the latter. But yes, this needs to be spelled out more clearly by the people. I think in particular, Doug Burgum of the Department of the Interior, he would likely play a crucial role in this. So that's something that needs to be spelled out more clearly.
SPEAKER 13 :
Okay, so Nathan, as you're talking about this auctioned off, I like that idea. Does this offer the opportunity for cronyism, though, as well on the people that might get the contracts to do that? I know these are questions that would all need to be kicked around. What's your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I think that, you know, from my perspective, you see certainly a lot of interest. A lot of it is coming from, for example, the Frontier is this foundation that has very quickly branded itself as an advocate in D.C. Freedom City's movement, you have pre-existing, I think, real estate development interests that even if they're not explicitly articulating an interest, they're clearly probably positioning themselves in some way to be, okay, well positioned to provide a bid, to attempt to put forth some sort of plan as part of this chartering contest. I do think that cronyism, the opportunity, especially if the bid process, the chartering process is not done in an adequately transparent form for there to be that sort of corruption. I think, yeah, I think that's a very basic first concern and first instinct that people would have about this plan. And that in some ways, the sketchiness of the plan so far, despite the interest, means that It's a good thing because the rules – it's like we have not even quite a drawing board yet, but we do have a point where these questions, especially on the free market side from people who I think are maybe just more temperamentally or ideologically inclined to be excited about this idea, it's good to see people – raising questions and maybe trying to set out, okay, what are the parameters around? For example, if someone is, say, involved in Doge or involved in some of these outside but at the same time insider government proposals that are being put forth and advanced right now in the Trump team, how are we going to make sure those people aren't in a great position because of insider knowledge or something to then have the best bid for something like this?
SPEAKER 13 :
Boy, I really love the idea. The intricacies will be super interesting because whenever you get government involved in things... Interesting things happen. I'll just put it that way. One of the examples that you had was this East Solano in California. And that proposal was to take farmland. And that's not federal land. And I'm very concerned about us losing food production. So tell us a little bit about that proposal.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, East Solano, again, it's a great example for various reasons, one just being the players who are involved. On the one hand, you do have farmland in this area east of the bay. And, you know, in favor of the proponent's vision, let's say – they are addressing what is a significant, serious issue with lack of housing, lack of supply to meet the demand in the Bay Area. This is a place with some of the most expensive housing in the country, in a state that already is due to property taxes, due to factors specific to California, but also just due to sheer demand. They've had this issue, even given California's overall shrinking population, and given, I think, some positive trends for the perspective of people trying to buy houses in, say, San Francisco, it's not a cheap place right now to live there. And so, unsurprisingly, a lot of the people behind this are tied up in the tech world. You have people who, I think, are on the more libertarian side of Silicon Valley who are in favor of this East Solano idea. But as you point out, this would impinge on the interests of farmers, potentially. It would not necessarily be so popular with people who exist in in those communities um but but certainly a big immediate distinction to draw would be between that and what is being proposed here which would involve federal land it would not involve existing farmland one likely conflict that i could imagine uh playing out though would be federal land if it's very close to adjoining maybe um you know in pockets that are uh almost overlapping with ranch land or farmland or other private land in particular areas of the Mountain West, there could be conflict even if it's not overstepping into that private land. Maybe those people would feel that they're being put under pressure to move out or they're then offered deals to have their land purchased because there's just so much federal land nearby. Those are conflicts I could imagine happening and raising these same basic issues. But I do think that When it comes to housing supply, when it comes to meeting that demand, especially in the Mountain West, you're going to probably end up in a situation where people say, okay, there's a trade-off here. Some percentage of ranch land is some percentage of productive land. It's okay if some of that ends up going to housing instead, just because there's so much demand. And the alternative is either continued densification, which is slow and tedious and runs into the same issues with objections from stakeholders, or or continually rising housing prices.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and the federal government is very involved in housing now. And out here in Colorado, we've seen this real push towards building these four- and five-story apartment buildings. And there's incentives to do so. One might be favorable financing from the federal government, and then there might be streamlining of the housing. approval process at the city the municipal and the county levels and so we have seen government very involved in housing where that agenda has been to put people in these these small apartments and have them walk or ride buses or trains with this whole 15-minute city which I I think that that That takes away freedom. It takes freedom of mobility. It takes away property ownership, building wealth. And so the government's been very involved in pushing housing one way. I really do love the idea of property owners and these freedom cities. I think it's very exciting. Nathan, your final thoughts on that? We'll go to break. And then I really recommend that people check out your articles at the Epoch Times. You are just... writing about really important issues of our time. So your final thought on the Freedom Cities.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I would say when it comes to that whole issue of densification and whether or not they're 15-minute cities or not, it seems very situationally dependent. I can speak for myself. I live in a pretty dense urban area. And so for me, that level of density, the access to things like buses and trains and the possibility of biking as opposed to walking, it's a good thing. It's also a very dense area where that makes a lot of sense. That's a problem that they tend to have in some of these big West Coast cities where they've got this significant housing demand that exists, but you still have many, many places where it's basically all just single family homes. So that's a problem that's different than in North Dakota or some other states where, yeah, I don't think there's enough demand necessarily. It doesn't seem like there's a lot of people who would want to sacrifice the kind of American dream that a lot of people have of the individual house, the possibility of just having a kind of conventional suburban community where you can raise your kids in a lot of space with a lot of, you know, access to nature and not have to have some of those denser features. And I think that, you know, the 15-minute cities thing, depending upon how this vision plays out, I don't think it's going to be too relevant. And I would say that's because this vision that has been described as one based around lack of regulation and the kind of movement in the direction of you know, more greater freedom for the people developing it. And I mean, there might be incentives to provide that density. But if we really do have these constructed upon not hundreds, not thousands, but millions of acres of land, that seems like a great deal of space for single family housing, for something more akin to what a lot of Americans are looking for.
SPEAKER 13 :
I love that idea. I think it's so creative. And I'm talking with Nathan Wooster. He is a national politics reporter with the Epoch Times. And these are really important discussions. And we have them because of our sponsors. One of those is Lavaca Meat Company. And it really is a premium product. It is a great treat and a great source of protein.
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And thank you to all of you who support us. We are an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And before the kids get back into school, I'd recommend that you take the kids to the Center for American Values in Pueblo. and the Center for American Values is located on the beautiful Riverwalk, and it was co-founded by Drew Dix, Medal of Honor recipient, for actions he took during the Vietnam War, and Brad Padula, who is a Emmy Award-winning documentary maker. And they focus on honoring our Medal of Honor recipients, and then also great educational programs to reclaim these values of honor, integrity, and patriotism. The Center's nonpolitical, and it's nonpartisan, and would really recommend you Check that out before the kids get to school. That website is AmericanValueCenter.org, AmericanValueCenter.org. I'm talking with Nathan Wooster. He is the national politics reporter with the Epoch Times. And before we move on to the next subject, one of our listeners, Jenny, said, no bid system on these freedom cities, a lottery. I think she's right. I think that that would eliminate the potential for cronyism, Nathan.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that's a very interesting way of possibly framing it, I guess. You know, with any such lottery, you want to make sure that the participants actually have the means to build those cities or something like that. But, yeah, I mean, I'm not going to claim to be an expert on the possible best processes to insulate something like that from cronyism. But, you know, if something works and it has a demonstrated record of preventing those issues from cropping up, that seems like something worth exploring to me.
SPEAKER 13 :
It says she's really she's got her her brain around these issues big time. She does a great job on that. OK, next thing. You're one of your most recent articles was December 22nd in The Epoch Times. Trump responds to claims that Musk is the shadow president. And then Musk apparently on Twitter, excuse me, on X has been been trending about these articles. Is it H-1B visas exactly? So talk to us about that, Nathan.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes. So just for some context, the initial article was prompted by something that Trump said that made a lot of headlines during his speech at America Fest. There's been this narrative building. I think you could accurately say it's being stoked by Democrats and by many people who are opposed to the administration that is taking shape, claiming that Trump is effectively functioning as a shadow president or something to that effect. You have Nancy Pelosi and similar politicians. uh... pushing this idea and then you have republicans objecting to it uh... it trumpeteer as well you know market not yet a president and he he couldn't be president anyway because he was not born in the u.s he's not a natural born citizen uh... which is uh... an accurate point unless we were to you know push through an amendment altering the circumstances by which someone could become president, there's no chance that a Musk or a Arnold Schwarzenegger, as I recall, is the last person that was discussed when this debate last week really came up around possible presidential prospect. It came up around Schwarzenegger. That's just not a possibility. But then in the subsequent days, we have – this was especially over Christmas – a big debate on x had this apparent push and pull over skilled immigration visas where it certainly looks a bit like trump responded to influence from musk and from some not all i want to stress but some in the silicon valley tech world In favor of expanded immigration and against what a lot of people in the core mega base oppose, which would be an expansion or removal of country caps or something to that effect for H-1Bs, this category of skilled visa used in the tech world to a large extent for various purposes. But suffice to say, it's been very interesting to watch, kind of feeds into this whole debate about what influence is Musk exerting? Is it too much? Is it perhaps a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Very, yeah, very, very active issue right now.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, I think, Nathan Wooster, though, the question is, is why do we need to import these people in the technology industry? And I think that Americans, and I think something was said along this line, maybe not as often, striving for excellence, maybe don't work as hard. I think the whole indoctrination at our colleges and universities focusing on that instead of focusing on real education. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there's a lot of immediate issues with the culture point. One I'll point out is that when you look at the international educational testing and you look at the American figures and you actually decompose it by certain demographic factors, certainly a lot of Americans perform at the very top of the world or near the top of the world. Asian Americans, white Americans are at or near the top of those tests. I think that anybody looking at the history of the United States, specifically its contributions to technology over the past 50 to 100 years, is left to conclude that pretty much all of the original innovation, pretty much everything of substance came out of the U.S. and was developed by Americans, American citizens. There have been and will continue to be very significant contributions from people born outside the U.S. who come here for opportunities. Certainly at the very top, you do have people, leaders who have that background from abroad. And the general point that the United States shouldn't lose the top 0.001% of global talent, that I think most people are taking well. What people are objecting to is the notion of using some of these programs that have a demonstrated history of abuse And that when you delve into the details, you find actually function as a means of suppressing wages. Often they're executed using these consulting firms with specific ties to countries and interest groups. The one that has been highlighted is India, but ones that seem to ultimately disincentivize hiring skilled workers. especially young americans young if you look at what americans what people you know a few years younger than i am majoring in college and then go on to study a lot of them are going into tech a lot of them are studying that but they find that the entire sector um not even just in the world of silicon valley but if you look at these graduate programs in engineering and science Not only are there not enough Americans, but they function as kind of a system – people will describe it as essentially slave labor for many of these grad students who could, in certain other areas, in finance, for example, if they're intelligent young people, they'll realize it just makes more sense for me to take my talents there rather than compete in this kind of race to the bottom against – a labor that is either being not really brought over in the most transparent way or with a real consistent view towards skill, but that, yeah, in some cases you have nepotism operating, you have other factors operating well beyond the pure free market factors that advocates of these visas tend to stress.
SPEAKER 13 :
So what do you think the administration and Musk, in their support of these visas, what's your ear to the ground say on that, Nathan?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well... So, one conversation I had a few weeks ago was with Kevin Lin of U.S. Tech Workers. He's a strong advocate for American, I guess you could say the big middle class of American tech workers who've been most affected by these visas. And I would just point out, since I have a few minutes here, it's not just H-1Bs. You have what's known as OPT, optional practical training, for people on F-1 visas, which is a route to much the same outcome. There's lots of visas involved here that people, especially in the tech sector, have serious issues with. But my sense from talking to him was he likes a lot of what he has seen, but he doesn't like a lot of what he's hearing behind the scenes. This entire debate was touched off by the possible appointment of a man named Sriram. His last name I can find here, but he's someone who would be involved potentially in AI decision-making, but Sriram Krishnan has these very marked pro-H1B views and views. I think that it's impossible, especially based on what Trump has said, to argue that he hasn't, at least in terms of his language, changed what he was saying in 2016. In 2016, both on the stage and in written statements and other forms, he was very, very critical of H-1Bs. And indeed, he went on to put forth – an executive order that was aimed at significantly reforming the system. And you saw then the results of at least, I believe, a decrease in the number of those applications that were accepted. But now. Very recently, when he was on the campaign trail, he said something to the effect that we should be stapling visas or green cards to diplomas, even junior college diplomas. And whether that was Trump maybe trying to please, in that case, a group of Silicon Valley elites that he was speaking to, whether that's really what he's going to do or whether it's going to be something more moderate, we will have to see. Musk himself did go on to moderate what he was saying initially. He was He said some really rather explosive things, claiming that Americans are untalented, referring to people who disagreed with him with the term subtard. But he then said, well, no, I actually have always believed H-1B is in need of serious reform. We should raise the salary associated with it to ensure that there are not people brought on who are simply being brought on to lower Americans' wages. I mean, from the perspective of critics of these programs, that's a start, but it leaves a lot of questions in people's minds. Steve Bannon, various other commentators have been hitting this issue hard. You also have people who appear to have been penalized, at least they will claim that they've been penalized for their views on H-1B. Gavin Wax, a young Republican activist, had his verification stripped in the midst of this debate. It's definitely one of these important key conflicts that is, and I would just stress this, still going on. It seems like a lot of the debate that is happening on X is leaking over into the way that people in the inner circles are thinking. And we'll just have to see, is it the case that Trump has meaningfully changed his view on this very key issue for his supporters? Or are we looking at This debate being hashed out publicly in a way that will ultimately influence the way that the administration governs, because, again, nobody is in office yet.
SPEAKER 13 :
Really fascinating. Nathan Wooster with The Epoch Times. 2025 is right around the corner. What's your what's your thoughts, particularly over the next 20 days or so for America?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I think we should all be looking towards what exactly signals are sent on this issue, but on various other issues, I think especially on the economy and on trade. That's another issue where you have a great deal of push and pull. And so we're going to see more, I think, statements, more debate happening on those issues. And really, it's going to come down to many of the same conflicts that you already saw. not just between Trump and the original Republican Party that he in many respects kind of redefined through his election and then re-election. But this broader conflict over populism and the more, I would say the more core MAGA constituency as compared to people who tend to come and have more of a pro-free market with respect to trade and a pro-immigration, at least when it comes to H-1B and some of these other categories, more of an orientation in favor of those conventional not even necessarily Republican, but conventional neoliberal priorities. It's going to be very interesting to see just how, what sort of signals are sent out.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, Nathan Wooster, people can find you at the Epoch Times. This has been very enlightening. Thank you so much and very interesting. So again, I would recommend that people check you out at the Epoch Times. That is Nathan Wooster and I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Kim, for having me.
SPEAKER 13 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Something's a good idea. You should not have to force people to do it. And we're at year end. I'd recommend that you make a tax deductible. donation to the USMC Memorial Foundation. They are raising the money for the remodel of the Marine Memorial, which is the official memorials right here at 6th and Colfax. And my friends, it is just a small thing to show your appreciation by making this contribution. so that we can remember those that have given their lives or been willing to give their lives for our liberty. And liberty is the responsible exercise of freedom. And so for more information, go to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That is usmcmemorialfoundation.org. And we'll talk with Trent Luce about this again. But this was a law that was passed a while back. The implementation is starting January 1st. And here in Colorado, January 1, every egg sold in the state must come from cage-free hens. Here's what this means. And this is from the Post Independent up in Glenwood Springs. And it says, then there's a sign, it says, in order to be compliant with Colorado state law requiring cage-free eggs by January 1, we may experience temporary shortages. We apologize for the inconvenience. And that was posted at one of the grocery stores. So when government gets involved, the price goes up. And the price of eggs has gone up significantly. Many times the quality goes down and the supply becomes limited. We're going to see that happen with these eggs here. And it says legislators passed this law in 2020. And it was a multi-year ramp up to 2025. And it says all of our producers, both in Colorado and who sell into Colorado, have been prepared for cage free for many, many years, said Kate Greenberg, the state commissioner of agriculture. Our producers are producing. There should be eggs on the shelves. And they've done a great job of adapting to this challenging environment. And that challenging environment, my friends, was put in place because of the Colorado State Legislature. And again, this is force. If people want to have cage-free eggs, they should have that option. They can pay more at the store. But just think about that young family, that they're just trying with high insurance costs, inflation. property taxes, all of this, they're getting squeezed. And now this is taking away the choice for them to have more affordable eggs. And that is because of the Colorado State Legislature. And it is crazy here in Colorado that we have legislators that are concerned about the square footage of what hens could have in producing eggs, but yet this is a state that is very radical regarding abortion, aborting children, and don't seem to see the value in our children. And so it's just really kind of crazy. It's really more about control. That's what this is all about. This just came across the wire, my friends. This is from Reuters. I mentioned earlier that Biden announced two point five billion in fresh military aid to Ukraine. This just came across. It says the United States on Monday today announced nearly six billion in additional military and budget assistance for Ukraine as President Joe Biden uses his final weeks in office to surge aid to Kiev before President-elect Donald Trump takes power. And. I think there's a lot of cronyism going on with this money here. It says Biden announced that $2.5 billion in additional security assistance for Ukraine. We talked about that earlier in the show. But then Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said the United States has made available $3.4 billion in additional budget aid to Ukraine, giving the war-torn country critical resources amid intensifying Russian attacks on Ukrainian civilians and infrastructure. This spending, this printing money and giving it out, what that means, again, for everyday people is it devalues our dollar. Inflation is that silent thief. And so if the money that you have only buys 80 percent of what it used to, that 20 percent is theft by inflation and that inflation is caused by. The Fed printing money, pushing money out into the money supply, as we've talked with Jay Davidson with First American State Bank on a regular basis. So this aid to Ukraine to protect their border while ours is wide open is really beyond belief. But that just came across the wire. Let's see. Next thing, just a couple of headlines that I wanted to mention. That is, okay, this was Colorado employment reports are too unreliable for, it says the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. And again, we look at government. This is some of the things that they're supposed to be doing. We looked at these reports, and let me get to the whole thing here. And this is from the Broomfield paper, the Broomfield Enterprise. It says that Colorado's employment reports are so unreliable that the Bureau of Labor Statistics has stopped using them. And this is very unique. And it says that BLS has absurd data quality. Whoops, these pop-ups are such a challenge here. Sorry about this. I had everything ready for you. It says every quarter employers must – here we go. I want to get back to this. BLS has observed data quality problems because of ongoing issues with the modernization of Colorado's unemployment insurance system. As a result, BLS is temporarily suspending publication of Colorado employment, unemployment, and wage data, the Bureau said in a statement that was issued on December 18th. And again, private enterprise, if they were this incompetent, they would go out of business. And again, I've gotten to a point where I really don't trust so many of these different reports as well. And so again, that was from the Broomfield Independent. My friends, it's great to be back in the saddle. It was wonderful to take some time off. I heard from many of you that you really enjoyed all of the programs that we prerecorded last week. We will prerecord for New Year's Day as well. But our quote for the end of the show, I love this from JFK. And this is what he said. He said, one person can make a difference and everyone should try. So today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 09 :
young like a new moon rising fierce through the rain and lightning wandering out into this great unknown and i don't want no one to cry but tell them if i don't survive i was born
SPEAKER 04 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
Join host Kim Munson as she explores the heartwarming story of the American Saint Nick, a tale of kindness and reverence during World War II. Discover how a small gesture of goodwill by American soldiers became a cherished tradition for a Luxembourg town. Hear from Don Brookens about his father's role in this remarkable historical narrative that brings to life the essence of service and humanity.
SPEAKER 09 :
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and our other wars and conflicts. America's fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America's veteran stories with Kim Munson. These stories will touch your heart, inspire you and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here's Kim Munson.
SPEAKER 04 :
And welcome to America's Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. The show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings. Returned stateside realizing that we need to know these stories. We need to record them and broadcast them. and archive them, so hence America's Veterans Stories. And I have in studio with me Don Brookens, and we're talking about his father. The story is American Saint Nick, and we've recorded something before, Don, but I thought at Christmastime and during the time of the Battle of the Bulge, let's just meet again and do an interview. So it's great to have you here.
SPEAKER 10 :
Nice to be here.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thanks so much. Thanks for thinking of me. Well, and American St. Nick is a true story. It's a book by Peter Lyon, right? Peter Lyon, spelled like the animal.
SPEAKER 10 :
Peter Lyon was a friend of my brother's in Pittsburgh who was going to take over for him while my brother was gone visiting Luxembourg, as the rest of us were, because what my father did was done 30-some years prior to And the town never forgot what he did. So when they discovered that my father survived the war, it took that long to find that out. They invited him back, and the whole family went along. And Peter Lyon said, where are you going? He says, well, I gave him a thumbnail of what was going to happen. He says, I should write a book about that, or someone should write a book about that, and he ended up doing it. So Peter Lyon's got American Saint Nick, and it's available probably on Amazon at least.
SPEAKER 04 :
Any place where you can buy books.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's a remarkable story, and as we were preparing for this, Don Brookins, you said that there's also a film.
SPEAKER 10 :
There was. As a matter of fact, the same year that the book came out, there was a fantastic organization that is out of Providence, Rhode Island. Tim Gray heads this up, and it's called World War II Foundation. And you can look up WWII Foundation dot org and find that Web site. And Tim is a great storyteller. He found this story. He came over and shot a documentary and it came out the same year that the book came out. And I think that was around 2010. 2016 or so it's a hard time for hard thing for me to remember now it's been a few years but um he did 2015 2015 okay and uh he also has done many other stories of And it's just stories of World War II. And I think it's something that people would want to go take a look at. And it's available for free viewing, by the way, if you go to the website. WWIIfoundation.org. All of his documentaries are up there, and you can also, I think, download the streaming app on a Roku TV and watch all of his productions. You'll really like the American Saint Nick, but you'll also enjoy what else he's done.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Well, let's talk about American Saint Nick. It's your father, and when did you find out that he was the American Saint Nick?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, I'm originally from western New York State. I've lived in Colorado for several years now. It was 1977 I came here. And soon after I got here, I learned about But prior to that, I was a little boy and I remembered seeing a fax picture, an AP or UPI fax picture of my dad playing St. Nick back in the war. But I and I kind of. I kind of understood somewhat about it, but that was all that was mentioned. And the way this all came about was my father was serving in the 28th Infantry Division, came over to France in August of 1944, and then went on to the front, and he was in a message unit of the 28th Infantry Division there. small group of guys and they were put into this horrendous battle called the hurtkin forest and not many people know about it in fact i don't really know enough about it but it was quite a just a terrible uh decision to be made and they were really against all odds and it was a meat grinder they called it as a The 28th Infantry was a part of the Pennsylvania National Guard, and they had a patch. Their patch was a keystone, a red keystone, and the Germans named it the Bloody Bucket. from that battle of Hurtgen Forest. And they were so devastated by that, they cycled them out to R&R up into Luxembourg. And at that time, the Americans advanced to the German border so rapidly that they got well ahead of their supply chain, and they were waiting to go into Germany And so it was kind of a thinly protected area because they thought the Germans were pretty well defeated and they weren't going to be doing anything aggressive. So this was a beautiful little country. storybook looking villages they all were billeted there and they were all kind of relaxed and finally eating properly and not living in the mud but able to take showers and sleep in clean beds and everything was was going along just fine and my father was in a town called wilts wiltz and uh That's kind of central, north central part of the country. And his job there, in addition to whatever else he was doing around Wilts, he was sent out to local towns to show movies to the troops. So he had a Jeep that was packed with people. um projectors and in film and matter of fact the movie he was taking around was called going my way with bing crosby as a matter of fact i i found that out so anyway he while in wilts his roommate was harry stutz was his name and he was a little short more short guy and he uh... was talking to doubt that uh... give you the significance of that in a minute but uh... he was talking some locals and they were very very pleased and happy that the americans came in save their town and the germans withdrew of the town was left intact and he came to find out that they were happy that the americans came but they were unhappy that that there was nothing left. The Germans took everything with them, and the children, who have not been able to celebrate their big holiday celebration every year, St. Nicholas Day, which usually occurred around December 6th. It was fast approaching. There was just nothing for the children, and a lot of the children didn't even know what St. Nicholas was because the Germans were not allowing anyone to celebrate local traditions.
SPEAKER 04 :
And they'd been under German rule for four years, probably? Five years.
SPEAKER 10 :
Five years. Yeah, they came in in 1940. As a matter of fact, Luxembourg conducted a strike in protest, and that didn't end well for them. So they finally succumbed to their rulings. But they felt bad for the kids, and so Harry Stutz... decided to go up the chain of command to see if he could put on a party for the kids. The town was pretty much nothing but women and children because the male population of Army age were all conscripted. And some were hiding out in the Ardennes Forest. And there were just the women and children in town. So he got a little party together among his message unit. They donated their cookies from home, maybe, and their cookies. They made chocolate. They made cocoa out of their chocolate bars. They got donations from a lot of the guys and made donuts and made little bags for the kids. And they said that St. Nicholas would come. And so my dad said, well, what can I do to help you? And he looked at the height of my dad, because I'm sure Harry would have easily... played the part of St. Nicholas, but the local priest was a tall fellow, and all of his garments fit my dad better. So he said, well, I need a St. Nicholas. My dad said, no, I can't do that. I don't know anything about it. And he says, oh, heck, all you got to do is just chuck him under the chin and pat him on the head, give him a little bag of stuff. That's all you got to do. So He put them in the back of a Jeep with an angel on either side of him, a couple of the little girls from town. And they drove through town a little bit, and they ended up at the castle because everybody's got a castle around those parts. And so they arrived at the castle, had a little party. show and tell, and kids did little demonstrations, and my dad didn't know any of the language, so he just stood there and was St. Nicholas. He had to put on this garb, and they fixed for him a beard made out of rope that he said was very scratchy. and very hard to deal with. And his mitered hat was a little too tight on him, gave him a heck of a headache. And as a matter of fact, Harry Stutz says, well, if it gives you a headache, take it off. He said, I can't do that. St. Nicholas wouldn't do that. So anyway, they went on with this party, and it was just, I guess it was the GIs were just as happy about it as the kids because it gave them a break. Sure. That happened. It was enjoyed by all. And everybody else after that went back to work. And my dad went and showed movies and went up to a town called Clairvaux, which is north of there. And on the 15th of December, which was 10 days later, and then came the Battle of the Bulge, which nobody expected.
SPEAKER 04 :
So we're going to go to break here, Don Brookins, in just a minute. We're talking about this book, American St. Nick, your father, who is portraying St. Nicholas. And one thing before we go to break, these young GIs, they were young GIs. They weren't very old at all, were they? My dad was 22.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, my gosh. He was born in 22, and this was 1944. And they were all about that age.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, they were young guys. Just really young guys, but doing something special for these kids. And the town remembered it. But the book is American Saint Nick, A True Story by Peter Lyon. And I did want to mention the Center for American Values, which is one of the nonprofits that I dearly love and support. It is located, the center is located in Pueblo, Colorado, on the beautiful Riverwalk. And it's co-founded by Drew Dix. who's a Medal of Honor recipient for actions he took during the Vietnam War, and Brad Padula, who is an Emmy Award-winning documentary maker. And they thought, we need to keep these stories alive. We need to honor these guys. So their Portraits of Valor is something very special at the center. And the center, like I said, is located on the Riverwalk. I'd recommend do a day trip. and go to Pueblo, check out the Center for American Values. They've got great restaurants for lunch or dinner. That website is AmericanValuesCenter.org, AmericanValuesCenter.org, and we will be right back.
SPEAKER 02 :
Remax Realtor Karen Levine helps bring to life the individual stories of our servicemen and women. With her sponsorship of America's Veteran Stories with Kim Munson, Karen honors the sacrifices of our military and is grateful for our freedom. As a member of the National Association of Realtors Board of Directors, Karen works to protect private property rights for all of us. Karen has a heart for our active duty military and veterans and is honored to help you buy or sell your home. Call Karen Levine at 303-877-7516 to help you navigate buying or selling your home. That's 303-877-7516.
SPEAKER 05 :
All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 04 :
Welcome back to America's Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. I am talking with Don Brookens regarding a story about his father, the American Saint Nick. It's a true story from World War II written by Peter Lyon. And you said also there is a documentary that people can watch as well, correct?
SPEAKER 10 :
That is correct. It's got the same title and a gentleman named Tim Gray of the World War II Foundation wrote Put that came out and shot the documentary and had it ready the following year while my dad was still alive. He was not physically able to play the part again, but he rode in the Jeep and they they did the background story about it. And here's here's another story. That might be interesting, but just the chance that this story is a good story and it can be told verbally. But two guys from two combat cameramen were walking back from whatever assignment they had in Wilts that day. and came to the end of a street, and all of a sudden they look, and here comes St. Nicholas on a Jeep with two angels going by. And typical of their profession, they said, well, let's go find out what this is. At 30 seconds either way, they never would have seen it happen. So as a result... there is film, black and white film, of this entire event, which, by the way, is on YouTube. I think if you go to YouTube and type in American Saint Nick, you'll find the raw footage of the event. So there's... There it is. It's all laid out. Perfect for a documentary.
SPEAKER 04 :
Isn't that something?
SPEAKER 10 :
It's amazing to see.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, this was on, I think you said, 5 December in 1944. And the byline on this is the day American soldiers brought Christmas back to one Luxembourg town during the darkest days of World War II. Now, the Allies were having success, and you had mentioned that supplies were limited. I've heard in many of the interviews that I've done is that Patton was moving so quickly with the Third Army that they were having trouble keeping the supply lines up with the guys. And so the line was thin there at Luxembourg. And I think that we, and you alluded to this, that we thought that things were going to be winding down and Hitler had other things in mind, right?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, they figured that Hitler was pretty much done and they were beaten back and they were going to be just pretty much on the defensive from that point on. It was anybody's guess as to how it was going to come out, but they just figured that that was pretty much done. They were hoping to be home by Christmas, but of course they realized that wasn't going to happen. So they were just hanging out and waiting, including winter clothing. Waiting for winter. Waiting for things like winter clothing, which they didn't have. And then when the surprise came, the Battle of the Bulge came through, you heard a lot of stories about... brutal cold it was a hundred year winter i understand from what from what i read and lots of snow and lots of cold weather and these people went through well they had been through the hurtkin forest battle and they didn't think things could get worse than that but it got pretty bad
SPEAKER 04 :
It did get pretty bad, and the Battle of the Bulge was fought, let's see, 16 December 1944 to 25 January 1945, so clearly they were not home by Christmas. Nope. And Hitler was trying to make a last-ditch effort to get to, my understanding is, fuel supplies.
SPEAKER 10 :
And a port. I think that they also wanted to split... the Allies in two. They wanted to make it to Antwerp, which was an inland seaport. And they figured if they could split the Allies into two sections, they could eventually sue for peace. So he had a very elaborate offensive move That surprised everyone, came through the least possible place that people expected it, which were narrow roads and lots of hills and lots of trees, and the Ardennes is a pretty thick forest. And so that caught everybody by surprise, and my dad happened to be up in a town north of Wilts, never got back to Wilts. And then with the... Counterattack, the town of Wilts was pretty much beaten up by all kinds of artillery and taking it back. So it was a couple of years before the town was functional. And a lot of these guys, you know, got scattered everywhere. And so it's amazing to me that... My dad got through the Hercan Forest and he got out of the bulge somehow. He also got out of landing at D-Day because of General Patton. He slapped a soldier in Italy. Right. That caused a big kerfuffle. Right. And he was disciplined. They were going to send him back to the States. And he begged Eisenhower to resign. let him stay in Europe, but he lost his opportunity to land at D-Day, which is what Patton wanted to do. So he put Patton in charge. of what they called the Phantom Army. And those were all inflatable tanks and inflatable trucks and parked along the outskirts in New England. And so my father's unit who trained for an amphibious landing, they went with Patton. The 28th ended up in England, and the 29th ended up landing on D-Day. So I might not be here talking to you if he didn't slap a soldier, which tells you what little things... How it can change things. How it can change everything. And so, as I said, he came across in August the 28th. I don't know if you remember a very famous photo of the American Army marching down the Champs-Élysées. Yes. Well, that's the 28th Infantry. So they got off the boat in August, went to the parade, and then off to the front. So... Anyway, where are we? Oh, so, you know, this happened. Everything got scattered. The war finally ended. And everybody pretty much all but forgot, you know, what they did on that afternoon on December 5th. But the people there never forgot. And so when the town got back in, living conditions they about 1947 they decided that they were going to commemorate this event every year and it wasn't St. Nicholas it was the American St. Nicholas and they have a jeep and they have kids that vie for the honor of playing the angel. And every year since 1947, they duplicate the festival, unbeknownst to anybody who participated in the first one. They tried to find out for a long time whatever happened to a lot of these people, not knowing whether or not they survived the bulge, because 22,000 guys were killed in that. And I think there was a... an archive of military history in St. Louis in the early 50s, maybe, that had a fire. So a lot of things were destroyed, a lot of information. So all they could do in those days was write letters, and they wrote letters, and they wrote letters, but nothing seemed to happen. Until one day, just like a lot of guys in 1975, 1977, in particular this time, I think it was in 77. that a fellow named Frank McClelland from my father's division, he was a military policeman. He didn't know my dad. My dad didn't know him, but Frank was a sergeant, and Frank McClelland came back to, who was from Pittsburgh, he came back to go over his career his war path where he was, and as a lot of guys did. But Frank had a group of guys that was trying to find their way back to the front during the bulge in the snow, and he was in charge of several guys, and they got pinned down by the Germans, and Frank ended up having to surrender and spent the rest of the war. The war is a POW. And he went back because it bothered him, thinking that maybe he could have done something else. And so he went back. To Luxembourg. To Luxembourg, to the Wilts area, just outside of Wilts. And he went to the spot where he was killed. He was made a POW and where he surrendered and he sat in the rain for. an hour and pondered it and realized that, no, he did the right thing. He felt better about that. So he went back into town after that and went to the hotel that he was billeted at. And it turns out that the gal behind the counter was the same lady that was behind the counter while he was there. And so he... She said, are you a soldier from World War II? He says, yes, I am.
SPEAKER 04 :
So was this 1977? This is 77.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay. She's still the same.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, my gosh.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, she's the same person. So she said, he says, I'm a little hungry. I see your restaurant is closed. She says, don't you go on up and get some dry clothes on, and we will cook you anything you want. But do you mind if a couple people from town came to see you? Because we're always interested in knowing who came through here from the 28th. And he said, no, that would be fine. So he's having dinner, and here comes these two guys. And Gene Schweig was the main individual, and he wanted very much to have McClellan come the next morning and see the museum that they put up in the castle for the 28th. And he says, I can't. I've got to be on an early train and so forth. But they were persistent. So he shows up and he sees the museum and he also sees the picture of my father on the Jeep. And they said, of course, they consider the United States about as easy to get around in as Luxembourg. So they figured, well, maybe you can find this place. This guy, he's he's from Rochester, New York. And could you please see what you can do to find out what happened to him? So he goes he goes back and he calls a friend of his who works for the phone company. And of course, these people in the message unit, a lot of these people in the signal core would respond. get out of the Army, and they'd work at telephone companies, which my dad did. So he worked for the Rochester Telephone Company, and McClellan goes back to Pittsburgh, and he calls a friend of his who happened to work at the phone company, because maybe you know a way to find somebody.
SPEAKER 04 :
So let's keep that as a cliffhanger. Yeah. OK. OK. That's a pretty good story. Yeah. I'm talking with Don Brookins. These amazing stories and just an amazing story for Christmas time here as well. And the show comes to you because I have amazing sponsors.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 1 :
And that I love thee
SPEAKER 04 :
And welcome back to America's Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. And I dearly love another nonprofit, which is the USMC Memorial Foundation. And the actual Marine Memorial is right here in Colorado at 6th and Colfax in Golden. And it was dedicated in 1977. And the foundation has determined that it's time for a facelift. So they're raising the money for the remodel, and you can get more information and help them by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That is usmcmemorialfoundation.org. I'm talking with Don Brookens regarding his story, his father's story, portraying the American Saint Nick during World War II. And it's a great book by Peter Lyon, but also there is a documentary people can see video of as well. Right. Correct? Correct. I was just taking a nap. Yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, anyway, let's see where we were.
SPEAKER 04 :
We were back where? Okay, so we are at, let's see, it is George... Frank McClellan. Frank McClellan. Frank McClellan, from Pittsburgh. Has gone back, and they're saying, and showing him the museum at the castle, and they said, can you find this guy? We want to know what happened to the guy that portrayed St. Nick.
SPEAKER 10 :
So, yes, indeed. And he goes back to Pittsburgh and he calls a friend of his who works for the phone company in Pittsburgh, figuring that maybe he'd have a way of looking it up. So he says, well, I'm trying to find this guy named Dick Brookins from Rochester, New York. And he was in Wilkes-Luxembourg just before the Battle of the Bulge. And his friend said, Dick Brookins? I worked with Dick Brookins. He trained me in Rochester.
SPEAKER 04 :
What's the chances?
SPEAKER 10 :
I tell you. So, okay. So he gets his phone number. My mom answers the phone. My dad's at work. And he said, is this the same Richard Brookins that played Santa Claus in Luxembourg during the war? And my mom said yes. He said, okay, well... you're going to get contacted pretty soon. And Gene Schweig, who was a kid who was 17 years old at the time of this party, he happened to be in town, too young to conscript, I think. And he was blown away by this kindness. It wasn't the most lavish party, I'm sure, due to circumstances, but he was amazed that these people would show this much love for the children in this town. especially since the people who were there in charge of the place prior to then were nothing but, you know, brutal and evil people. So anyway, he decided that he started up this thing that had been going on for 30 years. And he got a he got a letter, long letter inviting my father back to. to play St. Nicholas again in 1977. And we were told about this and that we were all invited back. And I had just moved here, started a job the previous May. This was in November. And I hadn't acquired any vacation time by that time. So I ended up going into my new boss and telling him that I'm taking vacation. I'll be gone for a while. And kind of explained what it all was. I was working at Channel 9 at the time as a news photographer. And as was typical... in the business, well, okay, take a camera. Shoot a story, which I guess was a good way around it for him letting me go, but I ended up really kind of missing a lot by documenting it, if you can understand that.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's difficult to do both things at the same time.
SPEAKER 10 :
In fact, for many years, my siblings would talk about events and people. And I thought, am I stupid? I don't know these people as well as my siblings do. Well, I couldn't hang around at the bar with them and talk to them all. And I was busy. But anyway, I went and just shot some stories and put some stories on the air when I got back. Never forget sitting there Christmas Eve when nobody's in the building and I'm sitting editing film. Film is stuff with little holes in the side.
SPEAKER 04 :
That was the old days, yeah. I know what that is, but I bet producer Joe doesn't. No, Joe's never heard of it.
SPEAKER 10 :
And so we all went back. How many children in your family? There were four. Okay. And all four of us went. My older brother... And my younger brother, I'm number two, they were married. So they and their wives and my younger sister and I went back there. And so here he comes down the street. There's the bands playing. Oh, not only that, they arranged for the Army to fly him in by helicopter there. And he had a really fancy outfit on that time, no rope beard. He got out of the helicopter and this town of about 5,000 people, there were 10,000 people there. And so here he comes down the street, my father, dressed up as St. Nicholas. And, man, it was just amazing. There wasn't a dry eye in the house, I'll tell you. So he had gone back there. He ended up going back there three or four times after that, every five years or so. Prior to that, you know, as was typical, there were – people in town who played the part of St. Nicholas. And it's a big honor. But they go all out. And to this day, as a matter of fact, my older brother just came back from the 80th anniversary celebration. And these people, I tell you what, if you want to go on a nice European vacation, go to Luxembourg. These people in Luxembourg love Americans. American flag flies there every day, and there is not enough they can do for you. Not enough.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, that's what I found, Don, when we went to Normandy in 2016, is they revere our World War II veterans. And it was like traveling with Elvis because everybody wanted to get to know them, get their autographs. There was 24 of us, I think, that all went with them. And it was quite the experience. it is amazing just to yeah it's but how american uh this idea of of kindness and i remember uh when we were in in normandy there were pictures on the sides of buildings and in the windows of stores of of rgis and and there's a There was a picture of a GI who was knelt down and giving some candy to a little girl. And we were talking during break. These are guys that grew up during the Depression, the battle there of the Hurricane Forest, you said, and then the Battle of the Bulge. They didn't have the proper equipment. They were outside sleeping on the ground. During that time, because of them, we lived such comfortable lives. And they came back. You said something interesting also during the break is they came back and we ended up with the hippie generation. But I think part of it was they... They'd seen war. They wanted to take care of their families. They wanted to, in I think some ways, try to forget what had happened. But they wanted to make sure that they gave their kids all that they could. And that is a good thing, and it's a bad thing sometimes.
SPEAKER 10 :
Sometimes it is. You don't appreciate what you have unless you've gone through some tough times. But, yeah, a lot of the guys just did not want – when they came back, they didn't want to visit the past, either in their own minds for what they saw and didn't want to share it with family. And as a matter of fact, my dad was the same way until this happened. Then he became a star. I'll tell you what. I remember he... got interviewed by the local newspaper or local TV station. In Luxembourg? No, in Rochester when he came back from one of these trips. Okay. And he says he made a great, they used a sound bite that was pretty funny. He said at the end of the piece, he says, yeah, the guy lives two doors down from me, doesn't know who the heck I am. But over there, I'm a big deal. He is. He's amazing. Well, when my brother was there this past week, he and his wife were he was the sole representative of our family for this trip. And he and his wife were walking down the street downtown and car came up and stopped right in the middle of the street and he got out. I want to shake his hand and talk to him. And everybody, they just waited. It's remarkable. And now a lot of little kids that he gave the party to, they've all passed away. I remember when we went back there in, I'm trying to think what year was it, that we went in 94. In 1994, we all have been, gotten married, have kids and so forth. And my dad, he says, I'm spending your inheritance. And he flew us all over there for the 50th anniversary. And it – let me see, where was I? Oh, so we all participated. I'll tell you what, if that plane went down on the way over, that would be it. Wow. But we all went over there for that event, and all of our children got to experience it, and they – A lot of them were pretty young, but they never forgot that. As a matter of fact, it's really strange, too, that my wife and my first daughter, my first child, have the same birthday, and it happens to be December 6th, which is St. Nicholas Day. And her son, my grandson, is named Max Nicholas.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, wow. So we're going to finish up. We have one more segment that we'll continue with next. Don Brookins regarding the story of the American Saint Nick. But the show comes to you because of sponsors and a sponsor that's been for all these years is Hooters Restaurants. How I got to know them. It's a very important story about freedom and free markets and capitalism. And they have five locations, Loveland, Aurora, Lone Tree, Westminster and Colorado Springs restaurants. Great place to get together for lunch specials, happy hour specials, and, of course, to watch all of the games. And we are into playoff season now, so be sure and check that out. We'll be right back with Don Brookins.
SPEAKER 07 :
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SPEAKER 08 :
From the mountains to the prairie.
SPEAKER 04 :
And welcome back to America's Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. I'm talking with Don Brookins regarding the story of the American Satanic, who was your father. And they have celebrated this every year since 1947. Finally, in 1977, they found your father, and he went back several different times. Did they bring any of the other guys back that were involved in that?
SPEAKER 10 :
As a matter of fact, Frank McClellan. who started this whole thing. He showed up in 77. Of course, Gene Schweig, who started the party, was there. But another GI was Harry Stutz, who had the idea for the party. He showed up. My godfather, who my dad served with, Tommy Makovic, he came. And that's my greatest recollection right now as to who was there. But there were some people that showed up. And as I said, there was speeches and dinners and oh, my gosh. The best beer I've ever had in my life to this day is Simon Pills and they make it in Wilts. I would kill for another one of those.
SPEAKER 04 :
Sometimes I wonder, Don Brookins, if it's... If it's that good, or is it all of the memories, is it all of it together? You never know for sure.
SPEAKER 10 :
It's that good? It's that good. You can't really, you can talk about it all you want, but being there and being among the people. And as I said, there is a brand new generation now, and they've been taught about it.
SPEAKER 04 :
And that's what I saw when we were in Normandy as well, because with our veterans, our four veterans, we went to a number of schools. And in fact, we went into a school in Normandy and a big portrait on the wall in the gymnasium was Thomas Jefferson. They love Americans because they understand just the sacrifice, the fact that these young men were far from home and had their lives on the line for people's liberty, something bigger than ourselves. And so the stories are so fascinating. And where can the book American Saint Nick, a true story by Peter Lyon, and it would be a great gift or a great book to have at home. But also, you said there's some places that people can watch the documentary.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, first of all, prior to the. watching the documentary or not aside from watching the documentary, you can actually watch, um, which the documentary incorporates into it, but there is the raw footage that these GIs took of the event and that's on YouTube. So if you go, if you go to YouTube and type in American St. Nick, you could start watching the raw footage of, of, of the party. And, uh, And then the documentary, if people would go to W.W.I.I. Foundation dot org. Peter Tim Gray's World War Two Foundation documentary documentary. A website which has many stories that he's done over the years are all available there. Plus, I think on the Roku channel, you can even look for the World War Two Foundation app and you can watch it on your television. All these, including this story.
SPEAKER 04 :
And I think that would be a great thing to do over the holidays, something very special. And we've got a little bit of time left. And you had mentioned that there's another veteran, a Colorado kid, that a lot of people don't know about.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, a lot of people don't know about. It's it's quite an interesting story. I ran into this story by happenstance when I worked at Channel 9 and I did in 96. I did a little story about about this and it's quite involved, except to say that there was a. Only child from Ray, Colorado, who moved here his senior year of high school, went to East High. And his name was Ronald Joseph Fisher. And it so happens that. If you learn about the Battle of Midway, where the entire Pacific War was turned around, Ronald Joseph Fisher was on the USS Hornet, and not only did he participate in the battle, but he was one of the first people to discover the location of the Japanese fleet. Really? Because he was a radio man slash gunner on a Devastator. There was a two-man crew. And it was Torpedo Squadron 8 off the Hornet. And they were sending planes off all the carriers looking for the fleet. And... It's really worth delving into that. The movie Midway that was done in 2019 crammed an awful lot into that movie, but they really tried to stay accurate. And the Torpedo Squadron 8 was able to be shown in that movie for about a minute. But it's really amazing what this kid did because they were by themselves, and they didn't have the other support from the rest of the squadron, and they went in anyway with their torpedo planes, and every one of them was shot down, and all but one was killed. There's one famous person in that particular event that ended up floating around in the water watching the battle, go from there, but it looked like a suicide mission, but as it turned out, they disrupted things so much by their presence that it caused a lot of confusion on the Japanese carriers, and they couldn't get planes landing, fueled, taking off, plus they were surprised to find out that these torpedo planes were there at all because the only way they could be there were from aircraft carriers, and they didn't think there were any aircraft carriers there. And, in fact, they had the Battle of Bidway to entice the aircraft carriers to come up there, but the aircraft carriers already were there, and that's another story how they found that out, but... They sunk three out of the four Japanese carriers in five minutes, and they sunk the fourth one later on that day. And Ronald Joseph Fisher was on one of those planes on Torpedo Squadron 8. And if you go to YouTube, John Ford, who shot a lot of the John Wayne movies, happened to be on Midway. shooting the attack on Midway Island. But prior to that, he also filmed Torpedo Squadron 8 in color on the deck of the aircraft carrier. And if you go to Torpedo Squadron 8 on YouTube, you will be able to see Ronald Joseph Fisher for about 10 seconds, and they have pictures or film of the pilot and the gunner separated by little, what would you call it, just a little notification of who's coming up next, and they go through the whole torpedo squadron, and Ronald Joseph Fisher, good-looking kid, he just stands there and he kind of winks at you. He didn't survive? He did not survive. He was killed in that. And there's a memorial stone at Fort Logan, the missing in action section for him.
SPEAKER 04 :
Because they did not ever find his remains?
SPEAKER 10 :
No, he's at the bottom of the ocean. In fact, Ensign Gay, who survived, had a good life. He was a pilot for, I think, Continental Airlines, I believe. And when he passed, he had his ashes strewn over that area. Wow. So that's a very interesting story. So the movie Midway is pretty well done, and I was so glad that they got a little cameo in there.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and Ray Colorado, I'm from western Kansas, so that's my people. And he couldn't have been very old, was he?
SPEAKER 10 :
He was 21. 21. I think he was born in November 2nd of 21. I've done as much research as I can about him. There's not really an awful lot. Right. But I happened to learn of him, and he's quite a hero. And, you know, it's really funny because I guess his dad passed away in 58, and And his mom in 89. Now, her only son was killed in that battle. And I tried to look her up where her grave site might be. And it's in Golden, the cemetery in Golden. And I went in to look for it. And I went to the person in charge. And they still have everything on paper. And she got the book out. She said, OK. She pointed to the map. And she's up here. So I went walking up there. It's an unmarked grave. That's not right. There's probably a reason why. Well, I don't know why. I don't know why.
SPEAKER 04 :
There's no stone.
SPEAKER 10 :
I would like to, because it was just a small family.
SPEAKER 04 :
Who knows? But losing only son, only child, boy, that tears a mother's heart. It really does. Don Brookins, we're just about out of time. This has been... Absolutely fascinating. And so what's the final thought you'd like to leave with our listeners?
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, I don't know. I think a good place to go on vacation is Wilts Luxembourg. Then you'll know. You can't believe how people appreciate Americans.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and we do this show because these stories are so important, and we've got to know our history, and we've got to know these stories. And so I so appreciate you taking the time to do this interview, and I've learned even more. So, Don Brookins, thank you so much.
SPEAKER 10 :
You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 04 :
And my friends, indeed, it is such an honor to get to bring these stories to you, and it is very apparent that we do stand on the shoulders of giants. So my friends, I wish you all a very Merry Christmas. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you for listening to America's Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 06 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
Join us as we delve into the riveting experiences of Carl Leppard, a Marine veteran who served during the Vietnam War. In this episode, Carl shares unheard stories from decisive battles such as the one at the Cottey River, shining a light on the tenacity and skill required to overcome them. Discover how his experiences overlapped with some of the highest commanders in the Marine Corps, leading to obscure but significant victories that shaped military strategies.
SPEAKER 01 :
world war ii korea vietnam the gulf war afghanistan and her other wars and conflicts america's fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty we must never forget them Welcome to America's veteran stories with Kim Munson. These stories will touch your heart, inspire you and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here's Kim Munson.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome to America's Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. The show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings. I returned stateside realizing that we need to know these stories. We need to record them and broadcast them and archive them. So hence America's Veterans Stories. Very pleased to have on the line with me Carl Leppard. And this is part two of our interview with Carl Leppard because there's so much to talk about on his experiences as a Marine serving in the Vietnam War. Carl Leppard, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Now, when we finished up part one of our interview, we were talking about a battle at the Cottey River. And is there anything else that we need to know about that particular battle? Because you were on one side of the river, and what, approximately 20 of your colleagues were on the other side. And if the North Vietnamese and the Chinese would have been able to get across that bridge, they would have annihilated our forces, correct?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. I didn't, of course, know that at the time. But, pardon me. Our TAOR, our Tactical Area Responsibility, particularly at this time, because we were just fresh into Vietnam in a few months, right? The Vietnamese were very strict. You did not go out of your area of responsibility. And second, at that time was General Wallace, or sorry, General Walt, right? He has his orders, and you do not cross that line. Now, I was illegal on the other side of that bridge. So the Marine Corps would deny anything that happened over there. But when the general, and I'm saying the general himself, got the mayday call from me, because that must be hand given to him by Marine Corps regulations, he is the person to get it orally in his hand, regardless of the time. So when he saw that there was a raider in trouble, and he was a former raider, he sent me the best he had, his two destroyers. So... It would have been good for the Marine Corps not to know anything about this battle over there, and they went to extreme lengths to hide it.
SPEAKER 08 :
But, Carl, just a quick question, though. If you had not been illegally on the other side of that river, they would not have been stopped. The enemy would not have been stopped, at least.
SPEAKER 02 :
I wouldn't be on this phone.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 02 :
I mean, we're done here. I mean, 20 people. The thing is, is that the north side of our TAOR is the Cottey River. An enemy force, they were not enemy forces per se in any quantity north. But if they were able to amass some forces to the north, there was nothing to stop them from attacking the Da Nang airfield. So we do know now in only, I think, since maybe 2019, 18, at a Marine Corps reunion where I found the source of all these records, do we now know? what occurred. Back then, I killed a lot of people. That's very true. And that's a matter of normal business. I hate to say normal, but we do our jobs and don't really think much about anything else. It's not my business. I don't clean up that battlefield. That's somebody else's business. But we do know that the 7th, the Strike Force Battalion, made a very lengthy envelopment from the south all the way around the edges of our TOR in the mountains on our 10 miles to our west, and then came down on the plain of the Cottey, sorry, of the plain above the Cottey River Bridge, and the battalion records show exactly that. That's part that they did not find to redact, okay? And they did redact entire sections of the record. They're totally blacked out. So I was not aware of any of this piece of business, but this force hit us. I was not aware of how many. When I got illumination, I knew we were in trouble because I could see— Listen, there were one hell of a lot of NBA. Now, NBA is different. North Vietnamese Army, okay? Those are professional paid soldiers, right? And they're wearing khaki and khaki helmets and so forth, and they're formed in an order of march. This is highly unusual. They are moving. Now we know that they're a strike battalion, which means that they don't have anything but fully automatic weapons, demolitions. These people are killers. They're coming. Fortunately, you know, I saw they were a rather large force here, and the general had sent me the first destroyer, the Craig. We got on them immediately. They were very close to the bridge. They could have started to cross. And I put HEVT, or Fused Quick, as they say in the Navy, over that element. And they were desperately trying to silence me, of course, but I had moved. And they were then trapped under this enormous pounding. So I pounded them for about five hours as they moved back to their original location. And I put 250 rounds down. of HEV to your fuse quick on their last position, totally destroying any and all that were left. So that was my business, and I took care of it.
SPEAKER 08 :
So, Carl Leppard, I'm going to ask you a real novice question. But here you are. You're on the side of the bridge. It's just you. This is a big forest with the illumination. You realize that there is a lot of enemy there. How... How do you get it so exact when you called in the destroyer? Because in World War II, my understanding is you had to have observers to try to get the coordinates figured out. So how could you, under intense pressure in a battle, make that communication and get that location right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, that's one of the reasons Lieutenant Reeder sent me over there. I mean— You know, technically I was a forwarded observer, qualified. I mean, I went to map and arrow photo school. I carried my map case everywhere I went. I knew grid locations or fire concentrations of artillery, where they were, what their frequencies were. And if we back up to Okinawa, where I was on the range there, I... I regulated and controlled air attacks and so forth and bombing missions in coordination with artillery and so forth. So, you know, you had a person actually here that's well-schooled. I'm looking as an observer of Carl Leppard. I mean, I'm looking at him. And he's extremely qualified for this particular piece of business.
SPEAKER 08 :
So it's with great confidence. You call in the destroyers, and you push the enemy back, but it took five hours. So what happens after that, Carl?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I mean, I followed them until they were destroyed, but I ended up at the— uh... say regional force there north of the bridge which is uh... they call the battalion but it was uh... a local militia i mean uh... and i had a uh... vietnamese uh... uh... uh... army uh... sergeant with me sergeant t he broke off to tell the vietnamese uh... they were located there near the beach uh... and that would be about oh three-eighths of a mile, maybe half a mile up the beach from where I started, okay? And I was out in front of them to the west about 50 yards or so, so I could see the impact areas and control that fire. So I retired after that through all of the remains of that battalion, if that's what you want to say.
SPEAKER 08 :
And what was the date?
SPEAKER 02 :
I had no idea. There could still be some people alive here. I was only by myself, so it was kind of dangerous.
SPEAKER 08 :
Kind of. What was the date of this battle?
SPEAKER 02 :
28th and 29th of July, 1965. Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
So what happens then after that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, in the morning, I mean, I went back to my original position and... when I had dismissed the ships. Listen, this is Navy thing here. Once the ships are giving artillery commands, or sorry, naval gunfire commands by a person on the beach, okay, that person is in control of those ships. If I put them on the bottom, they go. They came in shallow for me, as shallow as they could get without beaching themselves, and they risked their ships to support my element, which was the 20 Marines on the other side, of course. So... they do not control this battlefield. The person on the beach controls them. He's the commander. He's ultimately responsible for every round fired. So God knows who the man was on this beach. Regardless of how you try to hide it, no one pulls the trigger on a destroyer without God knowing his name. okay so this battle was completely hidden that's no problem i don't really particularly uh care marine corps records begin in 1965 kind of after this occurred they don't go back that far okay and any record of it was uh pretty much expunged but we were able to find a record from the commanding general Walt to his regimental commander informing him that a battalion of Viet Cong was attacking my position, that two companies were engaged, and that he had deployed destroyers. That remains on the record. In naval gunfire, they start from the first round they fire and go forward. I think this starts about firing of 101 or something. They cannot expunge or erase what the naval guns shoot. Somebody has to be responsible and accountable. So bottom line, that's all for that.
SPEAKER 08 :
So question, is the reason that this battle is not well known is because you were outside of the TOR?
SPEAKER 02 :
That's the tactical area of responsibility.
SPEAKER 08 :
area of response also it's a T.A.R.
SPEAKER 02 :
T.A.O.R. tactical area of responsibility okay is that why it's not well known perhaps other than the fact that I'm quite sure President Johnson was aware he had told the people we were not engaged right in combat and the Marines actually were second you do not, the general will not allow a violation of the T-A-O-R. It's a court martial offense. Oh. So the fact that they put me technically just a few feet over the line, across that bridge, was illegal. And because they had killed 300 Chinese, they know because they sent a shore battery to sea. Wow. They even sponge that one, too. But... 300 dead Chinese may have brought the Chinese into the war, so they wanted to bury this deep. We heard something. That's the Arbenz territory. They may have done something. I mean, look, they took extremes to say we weren't there, I guess.
SPEAKER 08 :
But it was necessary that you were on the other side of that bridge. This is fascinating, Carl Leppard, a Marine veteran. We're talking about his experiences in the Vietnam War. I did want to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation. That's why the work that they're doing on this remodel of the Marine Memorial is so important. Because we need to remember, we need to honor those that have given their lives or been willing to give their lives for us and our freedom. And so during this holiday season, make a contribution. Go to the USMCMemorialFoundation.org. You'll get all the information. And make a contribution so that we keep all of this alive and we honor. We honor these stories. We will be right back.
SPEAKER 06 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to America's Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. I'm talking with Carl Leppard. He is a Marine veteran from the Vietnam War. This is part two of our interview because he was involved in some very serious battles. And we don't know about a lot of them. But you have completed this battle at the Coddy River Bridge. And it was a very important battle. And you said the Marine records had not gone back that far. But this battle got the Marines' attention, yes?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Oh, yes. What's interesting is the Commandant of the Marine Corps. The Commandant of the Marine Corps' name was General Wallace M. Green. Okay? And we became, well, intimate. Not necessarily, but professionally intimate. Because I had driven him around for about five days previous in another shore landing and so forth in the United States. All right. And so primarily because I could drive a vehicle. It's a longer story there. But I could read a map in the general, regardless of time of day or night, if he wanted to be on a particular location, I was to put him there. So I was very efficient at that. So the general knows who I am, aside from him having probably a photographic memory. Now we come to the Cottey River Bridge. Trust me, the commandant of the Marine Corps knows, so does the fleet commander. You do not pull the trigger on destroyers like this in a combat situation without everyone all the way back to the White House knowing it. Okay. So what's happening next, if we fast forward.
SPEAKER 08 :
Just a quick question on that, Carl. If you're in battle, you need to be able to react almost immediately. Yes. So with the commandant, the fleet commander.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, he reads. And I mean General Green reads. He gets a report from the commanding general forces there every day and maybe several times. Our fleet commander as well. I mean, Krulak, Victor Krulak, he knows exactly what goes on. I mean, if the general asks him, yes, that's Carl Leffert. I mean, please.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. Okay, great. Okay, good. So the commandant, the fleet commander, they're all aware of this. So what do we need to know?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, what happens is, and I will just tell you this in advance, there was a number of times in my military career that we crossed paths with a commandant of the Marine Corps. So when your name pops up several times there, he knows precisely who that person is. So this next battle is called Chulai, and it occurred on the 18th of August. So then there'll be another one at Le Bon. These battles were recorded, but specifically the general, the commandant of the Marine Corps, got the report that came from me. Then finally, when he's leaving the Marine Corps, I'm on the drill field, he spots me again. So anyway, it's interesting.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. So what happens?
SPEAKER 02 :
So what happened was is that this battle, this movement of Marines down to what an area called Chu Lai, which is Krulak's name in Chinese, actually has nothing to do with Vietnam. It's his name, not a village or whatever. So they're preparing to— engage the 1st Regiment, VC Regiment down there, because the Arvin troops in May had been wiped out further south at a place called Quang Nai. But in any case, there were about, there were, I can be actually exact, there were 16,000 uh, enemy forces, uh, from July, uh, on down. Okay. So, um, we needed to get in there. We had, um, two battalions down there, second battalion, fourth Marines and a new airfield and first battalion, fourth Marines. And they were located about no five miles further North, uh, on the beach. Okay. Okay. So this battle was supposed to happen on August the 10th, but we got hit on the bridge, and that scared the holy hell out of the Marine Corps, so they sent 3rd Battalion 9th Marines onto the airfield instead. Okay, so now the battle is scheduled for the 18th. They are short about 250 men down there. So they robbed different battalions of men to fill in to where we could bring those units up to full strength. I was sent down to Hotel 24 with machine guns, etc., to fortify that unit. My company, we went down together, our Raider company, H23, went down to fill their positions of H24 while they were engaged and to protect the west flank of this division, which is very important because no one knows anything about what I've just said. Everything is shiny and rosy if you read about our battle down there, but it was never that way. We actually could have been hurt real bad. But in any case, we're down there. I'm there on the 17th. We went into battle on the 18th about 7.30 in the morning. We had about, from records, we see that we lost about 90 people before 11 o'clock. So we hit, landed about 7.45. We had taken about three-quarter casualties of the company before 11. Oh, my gosh. I was hit coming out of the helicopter, and there's where the problem started. My machine gunner got hit twice. The gun itself got hit and was destroyed. I got hit running in my right boot heel, which I thought my leg was blown off, and attempting to stand. I couldn't. I got hit in the helmet. My helmet was connected by a chin strap. It knocked me out cold for a time. I really don't know how long, but I tried to pursue our company by following the blood trail of our dead, etc., and I never connected with them or saw them ever again. So now what happens is that we had a division-size operation here of some consequence. I guess what the readers would not be able to follow me, I'm afraid, but... The bulk of the force itself, the major concentration of enemy forces, was where H24 landed. They engaged to the east of them a hill called Nam Yen 3. There was a hill to the west of that called Hill 43. that they didn't take it. And so when they engaged Nam Yen 3, they got hit and then also hit from the rear. I came in on the second flight, right, of helicopters. First flight, a lot of those were seriously down, smoking or burning, and a lot of chaos going on, a lot of shooting, you know. And so they had my platoon, second platoon, engage that hill 43. And then they went off doing that somewhere. I'm laying in the sand face down somewhere. And I followed to that hill. I knew where we were supposed to go. And when I got there, nobody was there. I was nearly out of ammunition. I was robbing some of the people who were rocket men or our machine gunners that were dead, to getting their pistols, ammunition, anywhere I could get it. And so I fought my way out of Hill 43 and went to where I thought the unit would be because my instructions and so forth, I have them on my map. I know where I'm supposed to be and where they're going. So I go to Nam Yen 3, and my God, they're not there. And there's one hell of a lot of enemy on that one. So, okay, fine. Cut to the chase here. I went to another one called Nam Yen 4. I ran into my battalion commander on top of that one thinking my unit is there for sure. And they're not there. And I told that colonel to get his damn ass off of that hill. It's VC controlled. I left. So did he. Okay. In his helicopter. Thank you. Bull Fisher was... I don't know. I think Bull Frischer got the Silver Star twice on Iwo Jima.
SPEAKER 09 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 02 :
Listed man. He's now the colonel.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Man this. So I proceeded north trying to find my unit. And there was one hell of a lot of VC running every freaking place and a lot of them. So I had accumulated three other people by then. I'm not sure where they came from or who they were. I think they were from India Company at the time. And I put us inside the, quote, bushes of a little hill I was looking for this morning. I think it's not on any kind of map here. It's about 22, so it had to be about 80 feet or 90 feet tall. Okay. But it was big enough for just us, okay. They had a lot of jungle around, but it had a good position as a jungle instructor. And, you know, I may have had, I don't know, 15 rounds of ammunition. They had none. I gave two to everybody, you know. And so we had to be very careful about what we were doing because we didn't have any ammunition. We didn't need to engage anyone except with a knife. or absolutely danger close. Basically, there was about 100 of them that ran past us in the open, full packs, everything. They came under artillery fire and were destroyed. We could see that. There was probably 30 or 40 of them that came by us close, but they didn't smell us, and that's fine. So the next day I went to another village. Question.
SPEAKER 08 :
You just said something. They didn't smell us. And I was interviewing somebody that said that there were different smells of Vietnamese or Americans because of what we ate. Is that accurate?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you don't wear deodorant, right? Right. I didn't bathe, except, no, well, I did take a shower once while they burned my clothes back in June, I think. We were pretty ragged and hadn't changed clothes for, I don't know, several, three or four months or whatever in the jungle. But other than dressing my wounds, I didn't bathe. I mean, you didn't. There was no opportunity. You didn't use deodorant or whatever. And you stank like they did. Normally, you can smell. You don't smoke unless you're told to. You don't urinate or defecate unless I tell you to. The Viet Cong are very religious about when they eat. They eat every four hours. They begin at 6 a.m. So at 10 o'clock or whatever, I tell you to defecate or urinate, you get hemorrhoids because that's when you go. We remove what we did, okay? You eat when I tell you to. You drink when I tell you to. You sleep when I tell you to. And if you don't, I pull your dog tags, which means I have control over your life. You will pay attention to business. Now, on this business of me moving from point A to point B sounds a little unusual, but it is not. In the Marine Corps, it's called missing a movement. If you are not on location at the time and place that you were assigned, you were either dead or you're missing. I mean, which is a court-martial offense and could be an execution offense in combat. So they must know where you are, and you must be where you're supposed to be. So I proceed along my map exactly where I'm supposed to be, my company or not, and as it turned out, I was the only one from my company who arrived on phase line Banana next to echo company and reported to my battalion commander hotel company was uh on the line with a compliment of five okay i don't know who those five were presumably they put them some other place and he told me to move in on the edge of echo company with my compliment and uh in the next day the next morning he'd give me my instructions
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, we're going to stop right there, Carl Leppard. This is absolutely fascinating. And I did want to mention the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo, Colorado. And Pueblo is known as the home of heroes. There's four Medal of Honor recipients that grew up there. And their portraits of valor of over 160 Medal of Honor recipients with their quotes is so inspiring. And so be sure to check out their website. That is AmericanValuesCenter.org. AmericanValuesCenter.org. We'll be right back with Carl Leppard.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 07 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
And that I love.
SPEAKER 08 :
Great place to get together to watch the games, have great lunch specials, happy hour specials. How I got to know them, it's a very important story about freedom and free markets and capitalism. And it's an event that occurred when I was on city council and really helped me learn the proper role of government. It was a good question. And so we become friends and they're sponsors of the show. So check out the Hooters restaurants and their five locations. I'm talking with Carl Leppard. He is a Vietnam veteran, a Marine. And we're talking about these different battles. And in the Battle of Chulai, you said that you needed to get from point A to point B. There's a time you're supposed to be there. You arrived there. You were the only one from your company that was there. So what happened then, Carl?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, Colonel Fisher came, and he recognized me because I had confronted him the day before at night and demanded that he exit his vehicle. and get in front of the headlights to be recognized and they said do you know who i am and all this other business i said yeah i do uh or you know uh until i do then uh you will step out of that vehicle or i will shoot you down so he he did and and uh presented himself that was my first introduction so when i reported to him at phase line banana there were three lines Let's see, first line was Apple, a very long line. And on that line is supposed to be the 3rd Marines, the 7th Marines, the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, on this line, elbow to elbow. And in the middle, next to Echo Company, is supposed to be Hotel. But I'm the only one in Hotel. I've got some stragglers from other units that had lost themselves and so forth, another story probably. But that was it. Okay, so the colonel recognized me immediately and said, oh, step out in front of the headlights. I said, well, yes, sir, I'm sorry. And so he told me to fall in, and the next morning he would give me an assignment to fall in next to Echo with my compliment.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
So the next morning... The colonel said for me to if he asked if I had a map and I had my case, of course, and he said I said yes. And he said, and Kong, too. I want you to go back to and Kong, too. And I want you to clear the battlefield and I want you to take your compliment and clear the battlefield and protect the wounded there. I said, I, sir, and I'm gone and Kong, too. was the right, there's a stream bed right there, and 3rd Battalion, yes, 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines, they're over on the south side. Hotel Company is supposed to be on the north side of that little creek, depression, river, swamp, what. Well, there are a lot of dead people everywhere. I mean... Please. Hundreds, you know, well over 500. But in any case, the battlefield itself was fluid. There's little bitty hills, right? And that's called like Namyan, this and that and the other, Nankong. These are little high rises that are above the rice paddy itself, full of big bamboo, a lot of, you know, bushes, etc., And these Viet Cong men were all over the damn place. I mean, we're talking about, well, I can be exact. There was over 5,000 of them there. So I had seen 100 of them at one time go past me to the south. They were coming from Echo Company straight south, or sorry, straight west, escaping. but uh gunnery sergeant carr took them down with some artillery which i seriously appreciate meanwhile i'm hiding in the bushes like i'm supposed to be and i see what's going on so we had about 90 marines that were seriously wounded um laying in the open uh Our helicopters were shot two pieces, and I can be pretty bloody exact on that. There were just very few of them that were flying. And to try to get out this many wounded, and we had over 200 wounded men, it was impossible. We lost 80% of our helicopters within the first three hours. And every time they'd come in for wounded or whatever, they'd be shot to pieces. So bottom line is, we did not have a resupply of water. We did not have any ammunition, okay? I mean, please. And so we had trouble. And these wounded, we were trying to consolidate them in a spot of some sort of safety with the river to our back. Theoretically, we had some bad water to give our wounded. Right. But we had no morphine. We had nothing. Okay, so I arrived there to try to dispatch all the living wounded Viet Cong and to account for all of the dead to report to my battalion commander. I was wounded twice during that exercise, you know, but, you know, I was in... We're getting into an area of sensitivity, but I will tell you that I couldn't dress my wound because I was 100% blood. So they had me strip off my clothes, and I exchanged them with some of the dead that were not so soiled and treated me and allowed them to go back about their business. So we secured our battlefield there. dispatched any living enemy forces, killed any that we could find, and generally protected that element. Then the next day from there, we had pretty much those guys removed. Some of India Company, I think, came in to give some assistance. I proceeded back to phase line Cherry, which is closer to the beach. And I am doing what I was ordered to do, clear the battlefield. and probably don't need to speak too much about what that's about.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
So in the end, I think I finished my business, I believe, on the 24th. We had began on the 18th, and I returned to my unit, and the unit, of course, was gone. My old company that was filling those positions, defending from the West, they were gone. There was a first sergeant there, and I think some Remington Raider person in headquarters there with them, packing up all the people's sea bags and all of that. I was very bloody. You know, I mean... flies had no place to sit on me. I mean, it was bad. But a captain came and a sergeant came that same morning, and they wanted to interview, presumably, H24 on tape, which is kind of interesting because, you know, it was reel-to-reel back then. And the first sergeant says, well, they're gone. You know, they're, they're not, you know, they're not here, you know? Um, and so, but we've got a corporal leopard over here and of course, uh, they, he interviewed me and, uh, the captain got ill and couldn't take it because of what I look like and, uh, left the tent losing his lunch. Uh, the sergeant then carried on the interview and it was taped. Now, we know today by Marine Corps record that only one after-action report was taped for July. They don't say whose name it was, but they did tape me. So General Green got the full nine yards of things that I don't want to talk about. He got it all, again. And he knows who it was on that tape. Okay, so now we know that... H-24, by 1600, 4 o'clock in the afternoon, 1630 to be exact, they were ordered to withdraw earlier in the day. I didn't know they were withdrawn to the west to where they originally landed. And they had a complement of 24 men remaining of 152, I think. So I didn't know about any of that. I didn't know they, you know, they're supposed to be going where I went. Okay, fine. So they sent them back to Okinawa to be reformed. I mean, they were not an element. at all anymore. Okay, so I don't know how long I was there, but I went to regiment then, and then they sent me to a place called Mike 39, and I was shot down in a helicopter coming in, and we got heavily engaged and so forth with some Viet Cong on the ground there. I called in some artillery, which they didn't find was the right thing to do. I just call artillery when I need it. I don't go through channels. Plus, I just was arriving. And so the battalion at that time had a little bit of a problem with Carl because he doesn't go by procedure. Oh, boy. So they sent me back out to get my face repaired. I had some of my uniform jammed up in my nose. My face was kind of arranged a little differently. And then I came back with my old machine gunner from Hotel 23, Ron Smith, and we promptly get shot down again coming in. So today, I have a record today because I was trying to follow where my Marines, when they were split up, they split us up to the entire division, and that was a bad thing. But in any case, they sent some of the more— combat proficient, shall we say, people from Hotel, the Raider Company, 2-3, down to Mike 3-9, and some other companies as well. So Ron Smith was there with me. Raymond, C.D. Raymond was my rocket man. We had Private Parsons with us. We had Miller and Butler, or no, we didn't have Miller. We had Butler and we had Harden, a bunch of people from Hotel 2-3. Flying in on October the 3rd now, when I was shot down the first time, I lost 21 of the complement of my platoon, which is I think we only had about 40. So we lost most everybody.
SPEAKER 08 :
Goodness. Let's let's stop there, Carl. We have one more segment. I'm talking with Carl Leppard, a Marine veteran serving during the Vietnam War. We will be right back.
SPEAKER 11 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
You'd like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can't remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim's website, kimmunson.com. That's Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 01 :
From the mountains to the prairies,
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to America's Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And I'm talking with Marine Vietnam veteran Carl Leppard, and we've talked about two battles. There's a third, and that is the Battle of Le Bon. So let's talk about that, Carl.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, okay. Well, basically, the Viet Cong NVA, and they try to say this is all Viet Cong, but we had NVA there, North Vietnamese. But on the 29th of October, they had planned to wipe out the Da Nang airfield again. But this time they were interdicted in two different locations by patrols and artillery. Okay, but on the evening of the 30th, I was ordered to hold an ambush in a place called Le Bon 1, right in the middle of this marketplace, pretty much on the river. Across the river from me was Alpha 1-1. My friend Sergeant Dempsey was over there, and he was the platoon sergeant of that. So we're there at midnight, and I'm getting fire now from— 360 degrees. They're trying to find me in there. And I knew we were in trouble. They were nine of us. And so I had to fight our way out of that situation. And I broke broke out through enemy fire. We had six wounded and made it back to our company. They sent me to battalion immediately. probably 3 o'clock in the morning, and Major Hopkins was there, our executive officer of the battalion, who was formerly my company commander back in the United States. And I drew him a picture of what this looked like, because then they had already slaughtered the Marines across the river there, during the night, and these vampires were looking for someplace to hide. Well, the attack was about 1,500 Viet Cong. Part of that unit was called the 45th VC, a main force battalion. We engaged them first ourselves down in Chu Lai, and before that at Quang Nai, they killed an unbelievable number of Vietnamese Marines. and arvin troops they wiped out 997 arvin but in any case they're the bad boys that made the attack they had been hiding underneath of the marketplace in lebanon and so i visited with the battalion commander told him the situation drew him a little picture where you could hide possibly hide a force of that size and that they were definitely in Le Bon. He grabbed his battalion and some company other units from other companies, and we immediately proceeded on Le Bon in the daylight. So we engaged Arvin on our west flank, engaged about a company of Viet Cong trying to flee to the north. They went into Le Bon. We surrounded it. I located where they were underground. The battalion commander or XO brought in the demolitions. We blew that marketplace up. It sank from five feet to eight feet in some areas, some areas 15 feet. It sank. We surrounded that for 24 hours and there was no one that came out alive. So the 45th and its complement was about, well, there were between 400 of that unit Presumably they had lost some, so we can say 400 pretty easily to 500 died at that location. I know the names of the battalion commander and all of his company commanders and exactly where they're at. Wow. So that ended the 45th Battalion. And I'm real happy about it. You can ask me, because I have compiled a record of any village you wish. I can tell you the commander's name in 1965, his complement of men, and what arms that they carried. Period. Period. So at Chu Lai, I can tell you exactly who was engaged, his name of what unit, Viet Cong unit. There were not one regiment, there were two. There was a second Vietnamese regiment there. So I know precisely and exactly how many were there, their names of their company or battalion or commanders, etc. I know their names and their exact positions. But this is part of being map and arrow photo guy. You do this. So I record tunnel sizes when I'm there. If there's a tunnel that will hold 400 people, we know how many people it will hold. So I know precisely the 7,500 people that were around us there, and we worked every day to kill every single one of them we could find. So it's a game. They were trying to kill us. We were trying to kill them. And we did it very professionally. And I'm very happy about the people I served with. So wounded again on last on December the 5th. They asked me to leave on December the 6th because of the wound was bleeding and we couldn't control it in my neck. So I proceeded back to the United States by way of Okinawa Kui Hospital and was promptly assigned to the drill instructor school at San Diego.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, my gosh. Wow. What a story. Carl Leppard, we have maybe about a minute left. How would you like to button this up for our listeners?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I don't know. The Marine Corps is a very small place, and we're very well trained. I mean, at times we didn't have what we needed to have, but those are normal things. uh, errors in combat and so forth, things happen. Uh, you need to, uh, adapt, uh, and, uh, take advantage of your training. Um, uh, and I think that we did it very, uh, very efficiently. And, uh, generally your E4s, your, uh, uh, your non-commissioned officers, uh, who were your leaders, right? Uh, they were generally very, very professional. And, um, Well educated. And I find no fault with any of them. I've fought with a lot of them. And I'm very thankful and grateful to have done that, particularly with the upper command there, General Walt, for sure, General Wheeler, for sure. Hopkins, General Hopkins, for sure. I can go on. Colonel Martin, for sure. All of my platoon commanders were the best I think we had.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wow. Well, Carl Leppard, thank you for sharing all of this with us. This is so important. I really do appreciate it. And my friends, as we hear these stories, it is very apparent that we stand on the shoulders of giants. God bless you and God bless America.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to America's Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 03 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
Welcome to the Kim Monson Show podcast. Kim Monson is your host. Christmas was not celebrated at our Founding. The Puritans associated Christmas celebrations with the Roman and Greek pagan revelry regarding the winter solstice. Founder of the Legacy Project Stan Everitt discusses the history of Christmas in America and the revival of Christian faith happening now. Mateen Elass grew up in Saudi Arabia. Elass shares his journey as the son of a Syrian Muslim to a Christian pastor today. Cattleman Jim May shares his Happy Holidays cowboy poem. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Kim Monson Show airs on KLZ 560 AM every Monday thru Friday, 6-8 AM MST. You can listen to the live stream by going to www.klzradio.com
SPEAKER 15 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 13 :
An early childhood taxing district? What on earth is that?
SPEAKER 15 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 13 :
I don't think that we should be passing legislation that is so complicated that people kind of throw up their hands and say, I can't understand that.
SPEAKER 15 :
Today's Current Opinions and Ideas.
SPEAKER 13 :
And it's not fair just because you're a big business that you get a break on this and the little guy doesn't.
SPEAKER 15 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 13 :
Indeed, and welcome to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You're each treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history, and I have an amazing team that I work with. That's producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Be sure and check out my website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. That way you'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And you can listen to the show on all KLZ 560 platforms online. We are on 6 to 8 a.m. Monday through Friday. The first hour is rebroadcast 1 to 2 in the afternoon, second hour 10 to 11 at night. And those platforms are KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM, anywhere in the world on the KLZ website and KLZ app. And then once our... Summaries are posted at my website. Those podcasts then can be heard on the streaming services such as Spotify and iTunes. We are pre-recording for this week of Christmas. And I'm very pleased to have on the line with me Mateen Alas. And he has written a book, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality. And a very important book. Mateen, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you so much, Kim. It's always a pleasure to be on your show.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and you've got quite a story. You were born to a Syrian Muslim father. And it says about the author, you grew up in a world immersed in the heart of Islam and no stranger to theological and religious study, having earned two master's degrees. in theology and divinity, and a PhD in New Testament studies from the University of Durham. Your scholarship has spanned Christian and Islamic research, issuing a number of books drawing from both fields. And so you grew up Muslim, but you are now a Christian, correct?
SPEAKER 08 :
That's correct. I grew up in Saudi Arabia, and my father was a Muslim, practicing Muslim, Sunni, but by the time we got old enough in our pre-teens and early teens, he had pretty much retreated from the practice of Islam, although he still was very direct on wanting to maintain his identity as a Muslim. Sort of a social Muslim, but not an active practicing religious Muslim.
SPEAKER 13 :
So what about your journey? How did you end up from there to becoming a Christian?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it was a long journey. I started a search probably when I was about 13 years old. The Islam that I was immersed in was not very attractive to me. The Wahhabi version in Saudi Arabia is a very dry, dusty, legalistic version of Islam where Allah is, of course, supreme, but very distant. And your life... spiritually speaking depends on your being obedient to all of the commands of Allah that are a part of Islam and that was not appealing to me so I started off on my own search I couldn't look at the Bible that was just not really possible in our family situation so I turned eastward and got involved in the study of eastern mysticism so much so that by the time I was 19 I went over to India one summer to the school or the ashram of a particular guru and studied under him and was then licensed by his school to teach classical yoga. I did that for a little while, but my time in India was actually a watershed moment for me. I realized that the questions that I had were not being answered by Eastern mysticism. And that left me kind of adrift for a year. But I had a number of high school and college friends who were Christians, Americans. And in the summertime in Saudi Arabia, we would get together and they were the ones who actually started to feed my curiosity. And ultimately, They challenged me. I was a philosophy major at that time at Stanford University, but they challenged me to read the Gospels for myself and to find out who this Jesus was that they loved and worshipped and that I was curious about. So I did that, and that was a transformative experience for me. As a philosophy major, I studied Eastern and Western philosophers, leaders of religious movements as well as secular movements. And so I came to the New Testament with a fair amount of background, general background on matters of philosophical and religious interest. But I'd never, ever read the Gospels. I knew almost nothing about Jesus except what you pick up in American culture, and that's not necessarily a great thing. But when I read the Gospels, I was just blown away by the person of Jesus that appears in those four Gospels.
SPEAKER 13 :
And so that's, when did you realize that you were a Christian? When did you confess Jesus as your Lord and Savior?
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, that happened in September of 1975. After I finished the Gospels, I was convinced that this guy Jesus was unique, but I knew the Christians were saying, well, the reason he's unique is because he's God who has become a human being. And I thought, well, that's just way too wild to believe. But the more I continued to read and to discuss with people, the more I came to the point of saying, I don't know anyone who has life figured out like Jesus does. And if there's anyone worth giving your life to follow, it would have to be this guy. So I said, you know, how do I become a follower? Still wasn't sure about the divine power. qualities of Jesus completely. But I said, he's the one I want to give my life to follow after. And it was at that point that I recognized that he had full claim on my life. So I prayed a prayer saying, Jesus, if you're really there, I know that you're able to hear me. and I asked you if you would take me to be a student of yours. Of course, that's what the word disciple means in the New Testament, but I didn't really realize that. I was still thinking in terms of a guru and a student studying under his guru. But very quickly after I prayed that prayer, I was drawn into the Christian community, and I felt like there'd been this battle going on inside my head, almost like a physical tug of war between my old Eastern mystical beliefs and these new beliefs as a follower of Christ. And that tension was palpable to me. But when I made the decision and prayed to ask Christ to come into my life and make me his disciple, suddenly I was off the fence. No longer was there that tension that I'd made I made a decision, and I'd been brought into the camp of Christ. And so there was great peace and joy in that decision. So that was 1975, and I've never regretted that decision.
SPEAKER 13 :
So you and I have talked before, and your father, who you said was a social Muslim, was not very excited about this, though, was he?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, that's a nice way of putting it. And this is an interesting point. Even though he was not a committed Muslim religiously, he still saw himself as a Muslim. And one of the worst things for a Muslim in terms of his or her community is to be embarrassed or shamed before your family and friends. And so I went home. Christmas of 1975, you know, Christmas break. And I was so excited. And I'd always shared with my father my explorations, spiritually speaking, and he'd never had any issues with me. Even when I went over to study in India, he helped me make that trip possible. But when I told him that Christmas that I'd become a follower of Jesus, he just exploded. And nobody in the family had ever seen him that angry, you know, volcanically angry. And he told me it just was not permissible. I could not do that. I was betraying my heritage. I was stabbing him in the back. I would put family members, you know, all Muslim family members in the Middle East in danger. And it was just not permissible. I'd have to recant. And I told him, well, no, this is the decision I've made. I can't go back on it. And we had about three days of very emotionally trying arguments back and forth. And when he realized that I wasn't going to change, he cut me off at that point. He wouldn't talk to me any longer. And one of the things he had told me in the time of argumentation was that if I decided I was going to continue to be a Christian, I would no longer be allowed in the family. I wouldn't be welcome in the home. I wouldn't be able to continue a relationship with him or with the rest of the family. So, and that's the one thing of the four things he told me would be consequences of my decision. That was the one that actually ended up being carried out. And so when I left After Christmas break that year, I thought I was never going to see my family again. Fortunately, that didn't turn out to be the case. After 14 years, she relented and welcomed me back in the family with my wife and kids now at that point.
SPEAKER 13 :
But it took 14 years, huh? Yeah. I think that's important to note, Annette, to never give up on prayer. Do you pray daily, Mateen?
SPEAKER 08 :
I do. My parents, of course, have both passed away now, but I have three siblings. And as a result of my faith and my outspokenness as a pastor and as a writer, especially now on Islam, my three siblings have cut me off and they don't want to have anything to do with me. So even though we're not in contact, I pray nightly for them. I pray for God to soften their hearts towards him and as a result, then to soften their hearts towards me as well.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, these prayers, this daily prayer is so, so important. I'm talking with Mateen Alas, and we're going to talk about his book, Fairytale Islam, when we come back. The show comes to you because of amazing sponsors, and one of those great sponsors is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. Roger's been in business for 48 years, taking care of his clients and his family and his community. And to give them a call at 303-795-8855 for a complimentary appointment, like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan team is there.
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SPEAKER 13 :
Welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our Web site. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for a weekly email newsletter and you can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we are pre-recording the shows for this Christmas week. And before we get back to Mateen, alas, I wanted to mention the Center for American Values, which is a nonprofit that I dearly love. They're nonpolitical. They're nonpartisan. But they focus on these foundational principles of America, of honor, integrity, and patriotism. And they do that through their portraits of valor of our Medal of Honor recipients, as well as some great educational programs. So be sure... And check out their website. They are located in Pueblo on the beautiful Riverwalk. And I would recommend make a day of it and go down and visit the center. There's some great restaurants then as well. And that website is AmericanValueCenter.org. That's AmericanValueCenter.org. On the line with us is Mateen Alas, and he is a pastor. He's an author. So, Mateen, how many books have you written?
SPEAKER 08 :
Thanks, Kim. I've written four books. The first one I did as a pastor, my denomination, I was part of the Presbyterian Church. They asked me to write a book on the Holy Spirit for the denomination. So that was the earliest book. And then I've written three books since then, all dealing with Islam. The first one was called Understanding the Quran, A Quick Christian Guide to the Muslim Holy Book. And then a book called The Teachings of Jesus and Muhammad, And then this most recent one that came out this year, Fairytale Islam.
SPEAKER 13 :
And if people are looking for your book, you can put it. It's Mateen, M-A-T-E-E-N, and then Alas is spelled E-L-A-S-S. So when you're looking for those books, that is what you would be searching under. Let's talk about this, your latest book, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality. And you said in the book that one of the first things that people will learn is that the Orthodox Islam is not a benign religion playing nicely in the world of Western multiculturalism. That's a big one. So let's talk about it.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. Yeah, the reason I wrote this book was because most of the Western world has a very misguided perception of what Islam truly teaches. And because in the Western world we've been raised to understand that religions, by and large, are good, and people of different religious traditions are able to get along well together, we just sort of assume that Islam must be the same kind of ilk. But in fact, Islam is a completely different kind of religious animal. It's a religion that is also political. And so Islam as a faith teaches that the whole world is ultimately to be submerged under an Islamic The world is to come into submission to the teachings of Muhammad, which are the teachings of Islam. So if you understand what Islam really teaches, you recognize that Islam can't play nicely in the playground of multiculturalism because its mandate is to try to conquer the whole world, to put all beliefs under the thumb of Islam. and to eradicate things that are false, that is, that don't agree with Islam. So Islam is not a benign religion if you're someone who doesn't want to be a Muslim.
SPEAKER 13 :
You know, as you were just saying this, I know a number of people over the years, a number of women who have married Muslim men But I cannot think of one example that I know of where there has been an American man that I know that's married a Muslim woman. Am I just missing something? Talk a little bit about that.
SPEAKER 08 :
That's forbidden in Islam. Western women, the way Islamic law puts it is that women who are monotheistic, but not Muslim, in other words, Christians, Jews, the Quran speaks of a group called the Sabians, anyone who's monotheistic, a Muslim man can marry. And she doesn't have to become a Muslim, but he can marry her and, of course, then have a family with her, or she can be one of his four wives. But a Muslim woman man can never excuse me a muslim woman can never be married to a non-muslim man the main reason for that is is that the progeny of any marriage relationship in islam is seen as as uh belonging to the man the head of the household so a muslim woman could not marry a christian man for instance and have children because those children then would be under the authority of the christian And in Islam, that would not be permitted. So non-Muslim women can be married to Muslim men, but non-Muslim men cannot be married to Muslim women.
SPEAKER 13 :
And in this first bullet point, thank you for clarifying that, you mentioned Western multiculturalism, which that has, I think, become very dangerous for Western sovereignty, like for the United States, this whole multiculturalism. And I think maybe people are starting to revisit that a little bit. What's your experience on that?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I agree with you that the pendulum has swung way too far in the direction of multiculturalism in the sense that we now do not prioritize Western culture over other cultures. We just say, well, it's just a playing field where everybody can field a team and play on the field and we won't prioritize or favor one particular culture. So in America, we have sort of given up on Judeo-Christian fundamentals that were the building blocks of our Western culture. And we're now bringing in or allowing all different kinds of cultures and wanting to try to treat them all equally, which is impossible. And I think we're sowing the seeds for the destruction of Western democracy, Western culture. by embracing multiculturalism.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and I think that people, many people are waking up to this, though. We see this in the most recent election on Make America Great Again, that tagline, that people, I think, have realized that this whole American idea— Which is based on this idea that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, that that is something that is worth conserving and preserving, Mateen.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, absolutely. I think the problem, Kim, is that we've lost the foundational beliefs that allow us to declare that all human beings are created equal and that God has given us these unalienable rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. We like to start there, but we don't want to have the foundation underneath it, which is the Judeo-Christian biblical foundation. And once you cut loose from that, then you no longer have any necessity believe any longer that human beings are created equal and that there are these unalienable rights and so as we've drifted away from our moorings biblical moorings we've drifted away from these teachings that all human beings are equal before the sight of God and before one another and that these rights are part of a God given blessing for the human race
SPEAKER 13 :
And we really need to be reclaiming that. And again, I think we're in the third founding of America right now, Mateen. And obviously, the first was the Revolutionary War, the second, the Civil War. But we are in this huge battle of ideas at this particular point in time. And it's a battle between, I think, good and evil, right versus wrong. And I think that I think that we are in the third founding of our country, and hopefully more and more people are standing up to engage in this battle of ideas that's occurring right now, Mateen.
SPEAKER 08 :
I sure hope you're right. This is one of the reasons, Kim, to go back to the topic of Islam, that Islam cannot be a part of that third founding of our nation. because Islam teaches a completely different worldview. In Islam, human beings are not created as creatures of God that are equal to one another and are created in the image and likeness of God himself. In Islam, human beings are simply slaves that God has created to do his bidding. And a slave has no rights except whatever Allah, the God of Islam, chooses to give individuals. So there's no basis to allow all human beings of whatever beliefs they might have to exist equally within that culture. Islam teaches that only Muslims can. are ultimately blessed by God and that those who refuse to become Muslims are the enemies of God and are to be destroyed or subjugated. So that's why Islam doesn't play well in the field of multiculturalism or even just Western culture.
SPEAKER 13 :
Right. And wow, this brings up a whole lot of other questions. I'm talking with Mateen Alas regarding his book, his latest book, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality. We have these important discussions because of our sponsors. And this is a very important story about how I got to know them. And that is Hooters Restaurants. It was when I was on city council there. and realized it really was a freedom and a capitalism question. And you can find that whole story at my website at KimMunson.com. But they have five locations, Loveland Aurora, Lone Tree Westminster, and Colorado Springs. And it is a great place to get together with friends and family to watch the games. And they do have specials Monday through Friday for lunch and for happy hour. And you can get all that information at my website. And we have all of these important discussions because of our sponsors. And one of those is Karen Levine for Everything Residential Real Estate.
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SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Something's a good idea. You shouldn't have to force people to do it. And a nonprofit that I dearly love and support on the show is the USMC Memorial Foundation Foundation. They do amazing work. They're in the process of raising the money to remodel the Marine Memorial out at Sixth and Colfax. This is the official Marine Memorial here for the United States. And it was dedicated in 1977. And the facelift that they have planned is amazing. You can get more information if you go to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That is usmcmemorialfoundation.org. We are pre-recording these shows with very special guests for this week of Christmas. And we're talking with Mateen Alas, who has written four books. And he grew up to a Syrian Muslim father. And Mateen found Christ. And he is a pastor. And you can find him at Voice of Truth. Is that correct, Mateen?
SPEAKER 08 :
Voice of the Truth.
SPEAKER 13 :
Voice of the Truth. Okay. So be sure and check that out. But let's—this book that you've written, Fairytale Islam, Deceptions Masking a Dark Reality, you said that Islam is really not a religion of Abraham and should not be grouped together with Judaism and Christianity. But I've heard that, that all three, because my understanding was— that the forebearer of Islam was, was it Ishmael, who was a son of Abraham? So my understanding was that's how everything's connected.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, yeah, that's the party line, for sure. That's the image or the history as Islam wants to portray it, that the Arabs are descendants of Abraham through Ishmael whereas the Jews are descendants of Abraham through Isaac but when you look at the actual evidence DNA kind of evidence and family lineages and all there's no way to connect the Arab peoples directly with the line of Ishmael so That's something that's up for debate. But the more important reality is that the picture that the Quran gives of Abraham and his journeys throughout the Holy Land are completely different than what we find in the Old Testament. If you take the Old Testament as sort of the lodestone, the thing that gives you bearings on the history of the Jewish people, and then you compare how the Quran speaks of Abraham, you see two completely different storylines. Abraham, in the Quran, goes down to Mecca, and he and Ishmael build the Kaaba, the cubical building that's there in the center of the Grand Mosque of Mecca. There's no historical evidence at all that Abraham ever made it down the 600 plus miles from the southernmost part of what we now consider Israel today, Beersheba, that he ever got any further south. But Islam has to claim that Abraham went down there. The Quran declares that Ishmael and his mother Hagar were abandoned by Abraham in the desert area there not up in the Holy Land as the Bible as the Old Testament has it and so Islam creates through the teachings of Muhammad a completely different history of Abraham than the Genesis accounts do and so in the end you have to say well they can't both be true which one is more likely? The story that is passed on from the descendants of Abraham on through the Jewish nation, or an Arab who had no connection with Abraham and the Jewish people, and 600 years after the birth of Christ, he now comes up with a story and he says, this is the way it really happened. So although the West has bought this notion that that there are three Abrahamic faiths, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism and Christianity cohere together. You can see the history of how the Christian faith develops out of the trajectory of Judaism. But Islam comes in as a late player, 600 years after Judaism. the death of Christ and says, no, no, no, wait, you Jews and Christians got it wrong. This is who the real Abraham was. And we, in fact, are the true descendants of Abraham. We are the ones who really have preserved the faith of Abraham, where you Jews and Christians have perverted it.
SPEAKER 13 :
That is really interesting. Didn't Ishmael eventually become reconciled with Abraham in the Bible?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, there's question about that. I mean, Ishmael continued to have some kind of relationship. And indeed, even after Abraham dies, Ishmael and Isaac have a... They come back together at Abraham's death. But there's no sense in the Scripture that the Jews and the descendants of Ishmael ever... become best buddies again. The teaching or the prophecy about Ishmael is that, according to the English language, I think it was from the King James, that Ishmael would be a wild ass of a man. That is, that he'd always be someone who would not get along with others well. He'd stay out in the desert areas. He would not become socialized and become part of the Jewish or the Semitic families going forward. He'd be kind of a loner. Although the scriptures do say, I mean, there's the prophecy that God would make Ishmael a great nation himself, that he would have 12 sons and they would become heads of nations. But there would always be this barrier between Ishmael and the descendants of Isaac.
SPEAKER 13 :
So, Mateen, if I'm hearing you right, you're saying that even though the Muslim faith claims Ishmael, that may not be true, right? Am I hearing that correctly?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, yeah, you're hearing me correctly. There's a lot of reason to dispute that. There's no direct evidence. And indeed, Islam today wants to see itself not as a religion for the Arabs or simply for the descendants of Ishmael, but rather as a religion for the whole world. So in some senses, Islam wants to play down the Arabic roots of Islam. But on the other hand, If you're an Arab and a Muslim, you're sort of a first-order citizen of Islam. Those who are not Arabs and don't speak Arabic as their native tongue are always sort of second-class citizens within the world of Islam.
SPEAKER 13 :
But that's antithetical to at least the ideal of the American ideal or idea is that we're all created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. So those two things cannot exist in the same space, right? A second-class citizen, which is pushed forward by a political religion. And then this idea that we're all created equal. Those two things cannot exist in the same space is what I think I hear you say.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it's an odd reality that the claim of Islam is that Muhammad was sent by Allah for the whole world. But if you want to understand Islam correctly, you have to be able to read and interpret the Koran. But the Koran is only the Koran in Arabic. So even though maybe one-sixth of the world is Arab, no, excuse me, not one-sixth of the world, one-sixth of the Muslim world is Arab, and so you have 16% of the Muslim world that can speak Arabic as a native. The other 84% have to learn enough Arabic to at least be able to say their prayers, the five daily prayers, because those have to be said in Arabic, even if you don't speak Arabic. You have to learn the sounds and speak those sounds. And then if you want to have any kind of status in the Muslim world, you have to be able to recite the Quran. And, of course, you can only recite it in Arabic because that's the language that it was revealed in. It's considered to be the language of heaven for Muslims. So if you're not a native Arab, you automatically are relegated to a second-class religion. status within Islam. And you have to work even harder to try to learn Arabic if you're going to try to excel within Islam. You have to work hard to learn classical Arabic, which even native Arabs don't speak. And then you have to learn how to interpret the Quran. You have to read the ancient commentators, or else rely upon someone else who has already done that, and you learn from them. So Islam is meant to be a religion for all, but it is heavily biased in favor of the Arabs because, of course, that's what Muhammad was.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, how is it that you said a sixth of Muslims in the world are Arabs? Who's the other, you know, the other 84 percent?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, Islam is spread around the world. So you have Muslims of all different cultural backgrounds. But Islam becomes a religion that brings the Arab culture into other cultures. Because if you have, for instance, a Malaysian Muslim, they have a Malay culture. But because they're Muslim now, they have to learn Islam. The main goal of every Muslim is to try to emulate the Prophet Muhammad as much as they can, as best they can. So you have to learn these cultural traditions that are Arab cultural traditions that go back to Muhammad or that Muhammad was a part of himself. And then you now as a Malay Muslim are trying to emulate Muhammad as best you can within your own cultural setting. And that's true with Indonesian and Indian and Bangladeshi and Iranian and American and South American cultures. If you're a Muslim, you in the end have to import something, at least something, of 7th century Arabian culture, because that was Muhammad's culture, into your life now in the 21st century.
SPEAKER 13 :
And would you say that there's... I'm trying to think of freedom of religion here in America, which is super important. How would you say that Islam matches up to freedom of religion in the United States?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, for Islam, really there's no freedom of religion. I love something that you say as you kick off your show, that if something is a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. The word Islam itself means submission in Arabic. And the understanding of the Muslim world is that Muhammad was commissioned by Allah to spread Islam. And Islam spread originally, and for most of its life in this world, over 1400 years, it spread by the sword or the threat of the sword. And there's no question about that. You can go back to read the Muslim source materials, and I've got a lot of stuff quoted in my book, Fairy Tale Islam, to discover that the Muslim world expanded because of the threat of beheading or otherwise being killed if you refused to bow before the Muslim leadership, the caliphates that developed over time. the first 300 years or so of Islam. So if something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. You shouldn't have to force people to become Muslims. And indeed, there are many Muslims who haven't been forced, who listen to the claims of Islam and have, for whatever reason, embraced it. But there are a lot more people who have come into Islam because of the threat of death And then on top of that, Kim, at the other end of the spectrum, you have those who have been in Islam and then decide, well, I want to make a free choice to leave Islam because I want to pursue something else, or I don't believe in Islam any longer. But in Islam, the penalty for apostasy is death. And this is not a question— that can be debated. There are four legal schools within Sunni Islam, and there are four legal schools within Shiite Islam, and all eight of those schools agree together that if someone leaves Islam, their life should be forfeited. Now, they may not be able to carry that out because they may not have the legal authority to kill somebody, But all the schools, all the legal schools of Islam believe that the proper penalty for apostasy is death. And they quote Muhammad in one of his Hadith traditions saying, if anyone leaves the religion, kill him. Goodness. So there's no debate about that.
SPEAKER 13 :
Goodness. Okay, well, we're going to go to break. I'm talking with Mateen Alas regarding his book, Fairytale Islam, and we will be right back.
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter at KimMunson.com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We are an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. We are pre-recording all of these shows for Christmas week. Pleased to have on the line with me Mateen Alas. He is a pastor. He's an author. We're talking about his most recent book, Fairytale Islam. And first question, Mateen, you mentioned that Islam comes down to force. There are some that thinks that Christianity comes down to force, but the true gospel is Christ doesn't push himself off on anybody. I know that when man gets involved in religion, things can happen. But Christ never has. He says, you can freely choose to have a relationship with me or not. And I think that's a beautiful thing about Christ.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, absolutely. Christianity is a religion of love, and love requires freedom in order to be able to grow and So in the Christian faith, Christians are called to go out and share the good news of Christ with the world as an offer, not as a compulsion, but as an offer. When the church has gotten into trouble is when it has become powerful in secular ways, like linked together with political power. and has then sought to use that power to compel people to become Christians. That was post-Constantine, emperor of Rome, who embraced Christianity and made it the Roman religion. Things started to go badly from that point on. And then we have, of course, things like the Spanish Inquisition and what happened in the Crusades, But I think the important thing to note, Kim, is that when the Church, looking back on its history, sees that it has tried to use power to advance the cause of the kingdom of God, it in the end repents of that and says, we were wrong to do that. That's not the way Christ calls us to relate to the outside world. And so we apologize. We repent for bad behaviors. In Islam, it's quite the opposite. If you point out to Muslims that they attacked and decimated whole countries of people, they say, yeah, so that's what we're called to do. Our goal is to bring the subjection of the world before the throne of Allah, and we use force as necessary. You don't have to use force if people are willing to bend the knee or without force, but if force is needed, we use force because Allah has commissioned that method in order to bring the world into submission to Him.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and as you alluded in one of the, or said in one of the previous segments, that people many times did bend a knee to Islam because they feared for their lives. And that is the ultimate in force. We are pre-recording this. The world is a very interesting place right now. And it seems like, as this administration is on its way out, that it almost seems like there's an effort to start World War III. And Syria... is kind of being played on that. What's your thoughts as your father was Syrian? You probably kind of have a front row seat to what's happening.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I'm on the sidelines just learning as much as I can from various media reports, mostly not Western media reports because we don't always get things right. But, Kim, if anyone says they know exactly what's going to happen, going forward. I think they're just blowing smoke because there are so many moving parts. There's so many different organizations, terror organizations, militant groups, rebel parties, as well as the big national players, Turkey, Israel, Iran, Russia to some degree, and the U.S. to some degree. I don't think anyone, apart from having some kind of divine revelation knows exactly how things are going to end up. It's good that Bashar al-Assad was kicked out. He was a brutal tyrant. We're just learning some of the bloodthirsty practices that he had as the dictator of that country against those who were opposed to him. But there's no guarantee that this new guy who is the head of this group called HTS, Hayat Tachir Hashem, will be any better. He could be worse. I mean, he's talking a good line right now. He's been educated enough with Western sensibilities that he knows how to be politically astute. But whether he follows through on those ideas statements of wanting a democratic state with freedom for all in Syria or not, that remains to be seen. It's certainly the case that some of his soldiers have been very clear. They've said two things. We are going to liberate Al-Aqsa Mosque, and then we're going to liberate the Kaaba in Mecca. What that means is they're planning to go to war against Israel, and then they're going to clear Saudi Arabia of the royal family and of the religion or the sect of the Wahhabis, and they're going to institute their own version of Islam there. So if those soldiers or those followers of this leader are any indicator, they have plans beyond just reconstituting of Syria.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, well, again, I guess stay tuned. We have to pray for our world. We have to pray for those that do not know Christ, that they would come to know Christ. And so as we finish this up, Mateen, this Christmas week, the hope and resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most free things that anybody can do. can really have in their lives. So how would you like to finish this up?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I'd like to, I guess, start with the message of Christmas, you know, peace on Earth. The message of Christmas is that we, Earth is a visited planet. Out of all the places in the universe, God came to incarnate himself, to become a human being, to live as one of us in order to be able to to connect with us and then to grow up so that he could live a perfect life of obedience before his father and could then become the perfect sacrifice, the Lamb of God, whose blood was shed for the sins of the world, to bring the possibility, the opportunity for salvation to all who wish to bend the knee before him and to offer their allegiance to Christ.
SPEAKER 13 :
And there is something very freeing about that. And these are the principles that biblical principles that America was founded upon. But it was important to our founders to keep a state religion separate from our government. But that does not mean that our government would not be influenced significantly differently. by these Christian principles of searching for peace, the value of each individual, that we're all created in the image of our Creator, all those biblical principles. So, Mateen, alas, thank you for the courage to write the books that you write and to talk about these important issues that are happening in our world today and for shedding truth and light on that. I do greatly appreciate it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Tim, it's always a delight to be on your show. I thank you so much.
SPEAKER 13 :
Absolutely. And our quote for the end of the show, I took part of Matthew 28, 20. And this is Christ says, and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. So the promise of Christmas and Easter and the resurrection. So my friends today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically. strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you. God bless America. And stay tuned for our number two.
SPEAKER 06 :
And I don't want no one to cry, but tell them if I don't survive, I was born.
SPEAKER 17 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 15 :
It's the Kim Munson Show. Analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 13 :
An early childhood taxing district? What on earth is that?
SPEAKER 15 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 13 :
I don't think that we should be passing legislation that is so complicated that people kind of throw up their hands and say, I can't understand that.
SPEAKER 15 :
Today's current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 13 :
And it's not fair just because you're a big business that you get a break on this and the little guy doesn't.
SPEAKER 15 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 13 :
Indeed, and welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for listening. You're each treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today's drive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body, my friends. We were made for this moment. And I get to work with an amazing group of people. That's producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa. Thank you so much for having me. through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. You can listen to the show 6 to 8 a.m. Monday through Friday. The first hour is rebroadcast in the 1 to 2 hour in the afternoon, the second hour 10 to 11 at night. And that is on all KLZ 560 platforms, which is KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM, the KLZ website, and the KLZ app. And then we do post the summaries with a written summary on the website the next day and have the podcast embedded in that. And then once that happens, you can listen to everything on Spotify and iTunes. Stan Everett, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you, Kim. Glad to be here.
SPEAKER 13 :
And you and I have talked about, we talk about so many different things about our founding, and you're so spot on on principles and values. But let's start with Christmas. Since this is Christmas week, what is, let's talk about an American Christmas. Where should we start?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, most people are only exposed, of course, to the Christmas that we're experiencing today. in the 21st century, which is way, way, way different than when our founding colonists came over and Christmas was not really celebrated even throughout the world. In the Roman Empire and the Greek Empire, you can imagine those were pagan religions that were dominant in those two societies, which were very important societies. So Christianity was kind of a very quiet but powerful religion, and the colonists, particularly the pilgrims that came into the New England area, had a completely different approach to Christmas than we would expect today to see.
SPEAKER 13 :
And how was that? What was that approach that they had?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it was illegal. If you wanted to celebrate Christmas in church, you couldn't. If you wanted to have a Christmas sale as a merchant, you would be closed down and fine. The Puritans were very adamant that the winter solstice, which I think is typically on December 21st, which is the longest day but the darkest day of the year in the Northern Hemisphere. And that was typically celebrated in the Roman and the Greek empires as well as Druids and all of the different paganistic religions that were around the world at the time. That was celebrated similarly to how we would celebrate Halloween. So a lot of drunkenness, a lot of riots, not that we have Halloween riots, but those were just expressions of over exuberance of a pagan lifestyle. And it was kind of the pilgrims figured, well, we don't want to be a part of that. That would be the antithesis of what we could consider to be, you know, the salvation of Jesus Christ coming to the earth. and the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So there really wasn't a Christmas per se as a holiday. Easter was the primary holiday for Christians at that time. And this went back all the way to when Christians were in the Roman Empire and beyond. And until the 1500s, mid-1500s, when Martin Luther began the Reformation movement, into a Protestant Christian perspective as opposed to the Catholic Church. Then Christmas started to inch its way into a celebration, but it was still very resisted in the 1600s, early 1600s, from the pilgrims as Puritans in the United States.
SPEAKER 13 :
So how did things start to change regarding Christmas?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, in Virginia in the 1700s, you started to see a little bit of the loosening. The Congregational or the Puritan Church in the New England states were still very rigid, but in the Mid-Atlantic and Southern states, the religion was less Puritan, and it became more like Presbyterian or Methodist. So the the evolution of these denominations, which were the inspiration for the Declaration of Independence, started to loosen up the perspective. And so you would start to see some decorations and such, but it was not a clearly defined day in December like we have today. It was more a season. In fact, the way people would greet each other during the season was a happy Christmas tide. as opposed to Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Some of that's really because of the way happy and merry were defined in those days as well. Christmas tide, tide meaning season as opposed to day. But happiness was more a personal sense of joy where if you were saying Merry Christmas, that would mean you were associating that with libations Drunkenness, other external factors like dancing, music, parties, things like that. So you would almost want to reverse what we say today into Happy Christmas and Merry New Year would be a more accurate representation of the New Year season as opposed to the Merry Christmas, which would have a different meaning if we were back in the 1700s and 1800s.
SPEAKER 13 :
So I'm finding that more and more people are saying Merry Christmas than I expected this particular season, Stan Everett. And in fact, some people are pre-empting me when I say Merry Christmas, which I think is wonderful.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, we're in a revival, a religious revival, as well as a national revival right now. You know that better than any. So I think people are almost in a protesting mood of the wokeness over the last 10 to 15 years, really over the last 50 years in my life. But we've seen it accelerate to a point of, you know, department stores not saying Merry Christmas, which the American history has been ever since the mid 1800s. Then Christmas became a day. and Christmas became, a greeting during that season was Merry Christmas. So I'm very pleased to have people say Merry Christmas because it means that they are acknowledging that Christmas is a time of a particular set of values, American values, the Judeo-Christian values that the country is about. So it seems like the majority of the society has rejected Just this happy holidays pablum that means nothing to now we are talking about Christmas as the day of the birth of Jesus Christ. So that's a profound change in our culture that we have been able to see and experience over just the last few years.
SPEAKER 13 :
We are in such a historic time, and I'm talking with Stan Everett. He's the founder of the Legacy Project. We're going to continue this discussion about Christmas. But throughout this month, we are promoting Doyle Glass's book, Swift Sword. And he, in fact, is really wanting to make sure that we honor our Vietnam veterans. So very pleased to be highlighting Swift Sword. And we've pre-recorded all these shows for Christmas week with great guests, great interviews, and, of course, great sponsors. One of those great sponsors is Lavaca Meat Company and Cattleman. Jim May always shares some great poems. Last week on the show, Jim shared a great cowboy poem. So we're going to get to that in just a minute. But what's happening over at Lavaca Meat Company, Jim May?
SPEAKER 18 :
Hey, good morning. I first of all want to thank everyone over this holiday season for coming in, just stopping by. I hope you picked up some good things for friends. I know that Imogen and I have taken some out here to our country and some repeat people. But anybody within the shot of my voice today, I just want to say thank you and Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. The holiday is here and it's been a great experience.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and a very happy holiday, Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah to all of our listeners.
SPEAKER 18 :
Yeah, for sure. And I always say a couple of things about what's going on. I think we're going to look back at this time. I'm just like, you know, who has been running this country for the last three or four years? And it's starting to get exposed that almost from the beginning of Biden's term that they You know, they've been propping him up and they use the COVID thing for a while to disguise it in the basement. And now we're looking at, wow, this is crazy. And I just hope that we can, gosh, my poem just went away here. But I just hope that we can continue to get the things across that we've been saying. There's a new sheriff in town. It's a new year. It's going to be good. And let's keep our spirits up and keep it going.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, absolutely. And so this poem that you shared last week is just so special. So we thought it's very appropriate this week as well. So please set this up for us.
SPEAKER 18 :
Okay, here we go. This is just something I wrote, and I'm glad I've had the opportunity to approach some of these occasions and work with it. I appreciate my time on KLZ Radio, and I love the Kim Monson Show. This one's just called Happy Holidays. It's finally Friday, and I'll start it that way. It's finally Friday, and it's really hard to believe that in just a few short days it will be Christmas Eve. The Colorado Rockies are white with winter snow. It looks a lot like Christmas from the KLZ studio. I really like the front-range view from the Kim Monson Show, a big-picture window, an American flag, and then there's Producer Joe. I have been lucky to be a part of it and say what I want to say. Free speech is what it's all about. It's the American way. I hope that you have enjoyed the cowboy poetry this year. It's a chance to share my thoughts and spread a little cheer. Most importantly, the work done here just means a lot to me. Thanks for supporting Lavaca Meat, and many thanks to KLZ. This season sometimes makes you feel like you are a kid again, remembering Christmas past and let them come alive again. There are times you would like to hope the season never ends, sharing joy, love, and quality time with family and friends. And so I want to thank you all for your kind words this year, the phone calls, texts, the little things. They're so nice to hear. I'm just a Colorado cowboy who would really like to say blessings of peace, joy, and love to you, and have a happy holiday.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, Jim May, thank you so much. And there's nothing that I can think of more that epitomizes the American spirit than the cowboy and the cattleman. And they're the true entrepreneurs of our nation. And I so appreciate you. I appreciate the partnership with Lavaca Meat Company. And it truly is a premium product, and it truly is a cut above. And so if you want to treat yourself, Lavaca Meat Company – really can can do that located at the corner of nevada and maine in old littleton and it's a real treat during the the christmas time to go down to old littleton i'd recommend that everybody do that at some point in time but uh jim may i appreciate you and i wish you and i'm a gene and your whole family a very uh happy new year and of course this is uh just a great holiday poem so thank you so much and thank you kim and and and i share
SPEAKER 18 :
Your thoughts. I wish everybody out there a happy new year. Let's just get it done. Let's just have a great 2025 here. We've got a lot of positive things going on. Please support Jim and the things you're doing and our military and all those things. And it's been great to be part of this. I guess we'll continue it up for a little while now. And we'll see you guys next year. The last thing I'm going to say this year on the show.
SPEAKER 13 :
Okay, sounds great, Jim May. And wishing you a very prosperous 2025. We'll be right back.
SPEAKER 12 :
Eyes peeled and moving quickly, Lance Corporal Jack Swan led 164 of his fellow U.S. Marines from Mike Company 3rd Battalion 5th Marines over the face of a bare rocky knoll to rescue an isolated company of fellow Leathernecks besieged by the Communist North Vietnamese Army. Then all hell broke loose. Instead of rescuing their fellow comrades, the Marines now faced complete annihilation. Author Doyle Glass tells their story in Swift Sword, a true Vietnam War story of epic courage and brotherhood in the face of insurmountable odds. Order Swift Sword by Doyle Glass now. They never gave up. We should never forget.
SPEAKER 02 :
You'd like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can't remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim's website, kimmunson.com. That's Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 03 :
It's right!
SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. And during the break, you heard the spot for Doyle Glass' book, Swift Sword, which is the story of the Marines of Mike 3-5 on 4 September 1967. And as we hear these stories, it is such an honor for me to support the USMC Memorial, which is located right here in Golden, Colorado. And the USMC Memorial Foundation is is doing great work, now is a great time to buy a brick to honor your military service or your loved one's military service that will be on one of their pathways of service. And if you do that during the month of December, you will – they have a match. A donor is matching that. So check out – The USMC Memorial Foundation dot org for more information. That is USMC Memorial Foundation dot org. I'm talking with Stan Everett. We've prerecorded these special shows for Christmas week. He is the founder of the Legacy Project, which we'll talk about in a little bit. But you said something so important, Stan Everett, and that is that we are in a revival, a religious revival and a national revival. And so talk a little bit more about that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, our country has been through a series of revivals. I think most people may be familiar with what they called the Great Awakening, which was in the middle 1700s. which was very influential to all of the founders because that's when they were kind of growing into their understanding of their society. So in that time period, you had Protestant pastors, Whitefield, Jonathan Edwards, the Wesleys, and they were introducing, let's rephrase that, they were reintroducing the doctrine of a personal relationship through God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. So they're worshiping Christ and God, the creator. And as we've discussed in earlier sessions, Kim, the Declaration of Independence is very reflective of that great awakening because of the influence that it had on the founders. Another great awakening occurred prior to the Civil War. which was instrumental in the abolition of slavery as being the cause for the Civil War. So I think there's some impacts on our society as this country has evolved, and the Great Awakening or revivals have been prominent. In my lifetime in the 70s, there was the Jesus Movement, which recently there was a movie about that about a year ago, which a lot of evangelical churches began to have younger people coming in and discovering that truth in drugs and sex and freedom really wasn't going to fulfill their lives, and so they came to a Christian perspective, evangelical Christian perspective. I think we're kind of going through the same thing now, where we've seen a darker side of of society and leadership, and I think people have rejected that. There's more people going back to church than you can imagine, and church is being redefined, much being redefined. You can have churches in your house. Even megachurches aren't included in the counting of how many people are going to churches, because they're considered cults as opposed to churches. So It's just interesting that we're living in this time. I'm very blessed to be a part of it, as well as you are. And I think if we recognize it from a historical perspective, we will see a revival of Christianity combined with a revival of Americanism, so to speak, which is based on Christian doctrine from the date of the Declaration of Independence throughout our history. It's very easy to see how Christianity has influenced our society.
SPEAKER 13 :
So, Stan, let me ask you what your thoughts are on this, because I've thought in some ways when we say Judeo-Christian, and say those words, that America's founded on those principles of Judeo-Christian doctrine. I the sanctity of the individual or individual freedom, property rights, all that's inherent in the American idea. So the individual, I think that's the word I want to focus on. So the individual is important. Individual freedom in America. But it will not. But but also Christ came to Earth. to overcome death and have a personal relationship with each individual. And so I've always thought those two things were closely connected. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, that's Protestant Christian doctrine, very much so the Puritans were rejecting the collective notion of the Church of England and came over here to escape that oppression that they were feeling. So religious freedom became part of the foundational principles of the country. In today's world, I'd call it Judeo-Christian values as well as Christian beliefs, which the values and the beliefs will be different. But by saying Judeo-Christian, then you're talking about Old Testament as well as New Testament, which a Christian will believe they're connected where a Jew would not. So those historic kind of connections, I think, and even today, you know, you hear a guy like Elon Musk saying that he believes in the, he calls himself a cultural Christian, not necessarily a follower of Jesus Christ, but he recognizes those Judeo-valued Christians as or Christian values as being so important to the cohesiveness of this society. You've had several prominent atheists not denounce their atheism, but to recognize that if this society is going to survive, then we need to look at this society based on Judeo-Christian values, and we need to support that. We may not be churchgoers, or we may not be claiming to be Christians, but the values and the beliefs of those Judeo-Christian concepts are what keep this country together, and they want to support that rather than mock it or reject it.
SPEAKER 13 :
I had not heard that term, and I think I want to talk more about that with Elon Musk regarding cultural Christian. We'll do that when we come back. I'm talking with Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. We get to have all these discussions because of our sponsors. I know each and every one of them personally. They strive for excellence. So for everything mortgages, reach out to Lauren Levy.
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SPEAKER 16 :
All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we are pre-recording these shows for Christmas week with really amazing guests, really amazing conversations. And pleased to have on the line with me the founder of the Legacy Project, Stan Everett. We're talking about Christmas. You mentioned that Elon Musk said that he's a cultural Christian, which indicates he believes in these foundational values, I guess, of Christianity. But you mentioned two others, and that is Christian nationalism. And this is a term that's getting a... kind of a, they're trying to demonize that word, I guess, those words, Christian nationalism. So what would you say to that, Stan Everett?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it's a label. You know, you got to love people that label other people without ever looking at themselves. But it's kind of in the, I don't know, the buzz that's around in Christian churches that And so they label people as Christian nationalism as a way of degrading or mocking somebody who's a patriot and also considers his patriotism to be supported by his religion, Christian ideals. So I think the fad of that being constantly thrown out there as a pejorative or a negative seems to be fading. I'm not sure what the new set of labels is going to be in 2025, but I'm sure there will be some. But it's just something, you know, people tend to want to control the dialogue by controlling the language. So they use terms, then they define the terms, and now I'm supposed to be defensive because they're defining the terms. Well, I reject that at every step. And if you ask them, well, what is a Christian nationalism? Give me an example. There are no examples. It's just another one of those labels that's out there. Kind of sad, but that's just the state of our society.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and Stan, you mentioned the 70s, and I'm thinking a journey I've been on. I went through a period where... I felt like maybe I was even kind of self-censoring my, I know I was self-censoring, because people around, and you mentioned this next term, is Christian progressives, is what I realized later, I didn't understand it as it was initially happening, but instead of preaching the gospel, it was preaching this social justice, And ultimately, I had a quote of Thomas Solon just recently about, what do you call it when government takes from one person by force and gives to another? They call it social justice. And I inherently was uncomfortable with it, but it was being held up as something altruistic. And so that's, I think, what I think about Christian progressivism. What's your opinion on that?
SPEAKER 08 :
No, you're right, I think. It's just the other side of the spectrum, you know. But again, it's a label, but I think it's a pretty close way of describing or accurate way of describing where the church since the 70s has strayed into these social justice, economic justice. So it's all about justice now. And, you know, Everybody characterizes Jesus in that time frame of the recent past as being just this peacemaker and everything is great and, you know, kind of stands there with his hands out, you know. Jesus was a radical. And to say that he wasn't political is totally incorrect. Who do you think crucified Jesus? It was the Romans. I think the Romans were the oppressors in a political form over Christianity. Israel. So it's just inaccurate to characterize Christianity as being apolitical. But it can also go to an extreme, and you can put up your nationalism at a higher level than your religion. And so that's where you have these different spectrums. But you can't lambast one and not recognize that there is another side of that spectrum. And I think that's what I challenge pastors with. If you're going to have a negative impact or a negative characteristic of Christian nationalists, then you ought to also have a negative perspective on progressive Christianity, which is not using gospel, it's using kind of New Age thinking as the foundation of that and then applying that to be gospel. That's not accurate at all.
SPEAKER 13 :
And regarding the term Christian nationalism, I'm going to bring out the word patriotism. And that is a word that over time they've tried to demonize as maybe bravado. And a good friend of mine who is a... a patriotic historian, he said that patriotism is love of country. It's not pride of country. It's love of country. And there's a big difference between the two. And so I think patriotism is love of country. And when you love this idea of that we're founded on, that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I can love that idea big time. And I want that for our next generations as well, Stan Everett.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and you said it right. Love is an idea, or the love of this country is an idea, because this country is an idea. Every other country is geography. It's got tribal... You know, it's got a particular, you talk to somebody about being a Frenchman, it's different in France because that's a kingdom, you understand that. In America, we don't have kings, but we do have a religious belief that puts our reliance on the creator. In fact, the Declaration, as you know, kicked out the king and the crown. and replaced it with the Creator. All men are created equal. My equality comes from the Creator. I'm endowed by my Creator with certain and inalienable rights, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I'm not endowed with privileges by the King. I'm now endowed by Creator. So if you don't even know what the Creator is in the context of Protestant Christianity, then you don't understand this country. But this country is based on ideas. It's not a It's not based on a particular race. I mean, we are the melting pot of all people around the world. So you're accurate in saying this is almost a notion that we are patriots because we love our country. But our country is not anything like any other country. We are a country based on ideas, not on geography or particular ethnic backgrounds.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and you're making me think about this when we're endowed by our Creator with these rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. For a long time, I thought when they said that we were made in the image of God, I thought it was the two arms, two legs kind of thing. And it's been an epiphany for me. to realize that if we're created in the image of God, then we are creators. And so that means that we procreate. That means that we use our mind to create better and better things. And when we do that here in America, when people were able to to go after their life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Well, what could happen? What happened is everyday people were able to thrive and flourish like never before in history. And that's what makes America great. And so... love of that idea, love of country, is what we're really talking about here. And I think that it's important. And you can't say all this in just a soundbite. People have to really kick the tires on these ideas and come to their own understanding of them, which is why you do the Legacy Project. But this whole creator thing is so foundational to the American idea.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it is. And, you know, The pursuit of happiness was originally the pursuit of property in Jefferson's first draft. It caused a huge argument between the John Adams of the world and like the southern plantation owner, because John Adams and the New Englanders coming from this kind of the pilgrim Protestant Christian belief system, didn't want the Declaration of Independence to have words that implied we're supporting this policy of property. So they argued over the word, and it turned out to be happiness, but it's economic happiness. So it's, you know, your creativity, the things you were describing. I can be creative. I can go out and be an entrepreneur. I'm not limited in what I can make other than my own self-limitations. These are rights given to us to pursue that happiness by the creator or God. So those foundational principles or ideas are, again, what the country is built on. And the remnants of that still exist in the 21st century. We're coming up on 250 years of the celebration of the Declaration of Independence. There's never been a nation on the planet ever that has lasted that long under the same form of government as our constitutional republic has been able to succeed. And a lot of that's due to people have the rights. They aren't having to go to rulers in order to get privileges. And those rights come from their creator. So they have to understand that. And that's what's restraining them and directing them to be virtuous and is that there's a creator that directs you to be virtuous and asks you to be virtuous, as opposed to the government that's forcing you to be virtuous as they would define it.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yes. And as you say, as they would define it. We're going to continue this discussion with Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. And the show comes to you because of our great sponsors. And one of those is John Boson with Boson Law.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
Focused and wise marketing is essential for your success, especially during tough economic times. If you love The Kim Munson Show, strive for excellence and understand the importance of engaging in the battle of ideas that is raging in America. Then talk with Kim about partnership, sponsorship opportunities. Email Kim at KimMunson.com. Kim focuses on creating relationships with individuals and businesses that are tops in their fields. So they are the trusted experts listeners turn to when looking for products or services. Kim personally endorses each of her sponsors. Again, reach out to Kim at KimMunson.com.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And for this week of Christmas, we have prerecorded these shows with really interesting guests and interesting subjects. And we're talking with Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. And it's really an amazing project that has helped people in northern Colorado get their brains around these founding principles. But we started off with An American Christmas. And there's a few other things that people may not know about Christmas and our founding that's pretty interesting. So tell us a little bit. You mentioned that they used to say Happy Christmastide, but then also they changed the calendar back in the 1700s, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, 1752, King George changed. not King George III, who was associated with the revolution, but the earlier fathers, changed the calendar in England from the Julian calendar, which had March 25th as the first day of the year, and they changed it to the Gregorian calendar to honor George, and that put us into a situation where the calendar began each year on January 1st. So, just an interesting sideline of the influences of the founders. All the founders were alive during this change of months. And so you can imagine they're used to time being in this slot, and all of a sudden it changes to a completely different time frame. But that's just kind of a sideline.
SPEAKER 13 :
And that happened because the king said that that's what was going to happen, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, there was a little bit of... arrogance, I suspect, by the king and said, this is what we're going to do. And it became the norm around the world because the English Empire was the most prominent, dominant empire. And so people followed that. Another interesting thing is, you know, we talked about almost this dark, oppressive celebration of Christmas Eve. which you really couldn't do, it was illegal to do, and there really wasn't the time. It started to loosen up in Virginia and such. There was also a large German population in Pennsylvania, particularly, and the Germans introduced lighted Christmas trees. And then you also had the Queen Victoria of England married Prince Albert of Germany. And so that brought a lot of German traditions into the English society, which then fell into the American society. This was in the 1840s. And then another really important thing that is influencing Christmas for us today was the poem by Clement Clarke Moore, The Night Before Christmas. where Santa comes in, you know, and he's got this jolly old elf Santa Claus. And then in addition to that, you had Charles Dickens in the same time period of the mid-1800s writing A Christmas Carol, which we all know that story of Scrooge. And so these things reflected the commercial type of gift-giving that Santa would bring. But then on Scrooge, it was a transformation of his whole perspective on life. of being generous instead of being a miser, being loving instead of being an angry old guy. And so I think those two things came together in America and has really transformed the way Americans then thought of the Christmas season. And then we also had Christmas Day identified on the calendar day of December the 25th during that time period. So those things really had an impact, and we see the impact today. And we see how the ebb and the flow of that is real important. And now we have a lot of, I mean, you have stores that are exclusive Christmas. You have a whole genre of music that's Christmas. This is how Americans do things. We take things that are positive and positive. we organize them to the extreme. And then we go out and find books and movies, decorations, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, because now the Christmas season becomes an iconic season for people in America, where at one time it was illegal and very dark and you didn't even want to talk about it. Now it's on everybody's lips and it's wherever you go, you see the lighted houses and the stores, the music's prolific. You can't even get it off your radio these days, it seems. But It's just quite an interesting transformation of how people view this Christian aspect of this society and how influential that has been on the entire world. The way Christmas is thought of in the United States is now exported into Asia and to Africa and all these other places that is impacting people, whether subtly or very overtly, they're being impacted by Christianity.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and during this season, and one of the things that you had in the notes that you sent over is that it seems that during this season, Americans, even more than the other days of the year, they appreciate these virtuous characteristics. And I have a... Another sponsor who they organized this huge toy drive for kids that might not have a toy for Christmas. And I thought, what a beautiful thing. And so they organized that. People can buy a toy. This is First American State Bank. And Jay Davidson and his daughter, who's with the bank, Michelle Gruber, give them shout-outs. Mm-hmm. And Michelle organized all this. And so toys for all these children. And then they arrange a big wrapping party for people to come in and wrap the gifts. And I made a concerted effort to be part of that this year. And I was just looking around thinking about all these different toy drives and all these different things people are stepping forward. Even though with government-induced inflation and uncertainty and all these different things, Americans step forward because, as a society, we care about our fellow man, and that is inherently something that is Christian.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and again, the ideals of social justice, as opposed to the political characterization of social justice, are in the hearts of Americans. We are idealistic. We're generous people. love one another as a societal mantra is a reality. It may not be as prominent as it was, but it's coming back in my mind. You're getting more and more people doing what you're describing, Christmas drives or You know, Thanksgiving dinners or all of these things that are associated with people helping through loving other people, as opposed to the division that we've seen over the last 10 years on the political side, which is a completely different societal trajectory. I think it's being rejected. And now we're going back to a love one another society and help one another. And we're doing it with the right motivation. a virtuous motivation as opposed to a hateful motivation.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, and the other thing is that if people, if government takes money from people under the guise of helping others, social justice, so that's the political realm of that. And of course, I call them PBIs, the politicians, bureaucrats, interest parties take their cut as that goes by. That is not these ideas of loving each other The thing about Christ is Christ came to have a personal relationship with each and every one of us, but he doesn't force himself upon us. And that's that word I talk about all the time, is force. It is a free choice to have that relationship with Christ. And that's what's so remarkable about the Christian faith, Stan Everett.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, you're absolutely right. It's remarkable, but it's so contrarian to human nature. It's how human nature has to be restrained through their faith in this higher power, as opposed to government restraining them through force, which is kind of what you're describing when you use your taglines. But yeah, Christianity and the whole idea behind Jesus Christ and He being the Son of God, and so you have this personal connection through Him to the Almighty. I mean... There's no other religion in the world where there isn't something in between God and the people. There's a brokerage, whether that's a church or whether that's a religion, Islam or Jew or whatever. This gives me the individual relationship with the Almighty God. And God has a pretty clear path as to what is right and what is wrong, what is just and what is unjust in the Bible. And that starts with, you know, the serpent in the garden all the way through Revelations in the New Testament. So it's, as a foundation for a nation, it's never been tried. And even those that have tried it have never been as successful as the United States because of our cultural characteristics rely on God as our source as opposed to government as our source.
SPEAKER 13 :
So this Christmas, completing this Christmas week, I think it's important to just reflect on the fact that Christ came in very humble circumstances as a baby. Ultimately, the journey was then to the cross to overcome death so that each and every one of us can have a personal relationship with God. It's a remarkable story, and it's an amazing thing to celebrate. Stan Everett, founder of The Legacy Project, I appreciate all that you do and appreciate your support of the show as well.
SPEAKER 08 :
My pleasure. You're doing more than I'm doing, and I love it. I appreciate being on and talking to you about these things. It's always fun.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, you're doing amazing work. Again, that is Stan Everett, the founder of The Legacy Project. And our quote for the end of the show is from Matthew 2820, where Christ said, And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. So, my friends, today be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 06 :
And I don't want no one to cry But tell them if I don't survive I was born
SPEAKER 17 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
Join Kim Munson as she delves into the depths of history with Dennis Bush, author of The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. Together, they explore the intricate dynamics and the sheer courage displayed at Omaha Beach during D-Day, highlighting the incredible acts of bravery by American soldiers. Discover the stories of lesser-known heroes whose actions were pivotal in one of the most significant battles of World War II. Through engaging dialogue, the episode uncovers layers of strategic maneuvers, unexpected challenges, and the drive for freedom that defined the soldiers on that day. Dennis Bush paints a vivid picture of the Omaha Beach ordeal, offering insights into why it's remembered as 'Bloody Omaha' and how patriotism fueled these men to face insurmountable odds. This episode is a tribute to courage, sacrifice, and the enduring spirit of American G.I.s.
SPEAKER 09 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 03 :
I find that it takes work to get your brain around these ideas, and it takes work to engage in these conversations.
SPEAKER 09 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 03 :
With what is happening down at the Statehouse, I used to think that it was above my pay grade to read the legislation, and it's not.
SPEAKER 09 :
Today's current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 03 :
I see big danger in as much as we will be giving an unelected bureaucrat the power to make rules about what we inject into our bodies.
SPEAKER 09 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Indeed, and welcome to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You're each treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. I get to work with an amazing group of people, and that's producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa. and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Be sure and check out the website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. And we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we do want to wish all of you a very Merry Christmas. And we have prerecorded very special shows with very special guests for this Christmas week. And I'm pleased to have in. studio with me, Dennis Bush. He is the author of a book, The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. And Dennis Bush, I had the great honor in 2016 to go to Normandy and stand on Omaha Beach and realize it was sacred ground. So this book that you've written is so important. So tell us, why did you write the book?
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. Well, I am a proud, unashamed patriot of the United States of America. I revere this country and its history in spite of some very dark chapters. But that's just the nature of history. No group of people is without sin in their past. It is just part of the enigma of the creature we so narcissistically call wise human or homo sapiens. Over the past many years, I have sensed a waning in patriotism in our country. When I heard a president of the United States declare that America was never exceptional, I knew that I had to step up and do something. To borrow on another theme, I had to do my part to make America proud again. So I wrote what turned out to be a trilogy of books on the story of what actually happened in early June of 1944 in the battle for Omaha Beach as part of D-Day. Once you understand this story in its entirety and accuracy, you will see that the battle is a microcosm that screams to the heavens. It is the people of America, the men and women, that make this nation the epitome of exceptionalism.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, Dennis Bush, when I was in Normandy, one of the things that I realized in some stories is, first of all, our veterans are revered in Normandy, even to this day, because they liberated people that were under oppression. And what an American... What an American thing that these men would put their lives on the line to liberate people that they didn't even know. It's something that is inherently American. So set the stage for us. Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. Well, I've got to draw a visual map for you. The Omaha Beach is an inward arc of shoreline about five kilometers or three miles across in Normandy, France. As there is such a tremendous advantage it provides then for the defense, you've got crossfire and you've got the enemy kind of pinned in. It's always best to be in that defense in that situation. There are steep cliffs at each end, and there was a wide, flat beach covered in sand and a sea of man-made obstacles that once you crossed, you encountered a steep slope up to the Normandy Plateau where the primary German fortifications were strategically placed, the military high ground. The slope was steep. Vehicles could not make the climb. Even jeeps, which can climb trees, couldn't do it. But trained, in-shape soldiers could. But it was an arduous, slow track, and under heavy fire, it is difficult to imagine how any man made it, let alone the thousands that eventually did. So the Omaha Beach battlefield itself worked heavily in the favor of the Nazis. It certainly posed to the Americans assigned to liberate it a tremendous challenge.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Dennis, I ask why we attacked there. But ultimately, as we were getting ready for this interview, you said that the Allies needed to get a port, but they didn't want to attack directly on the port. So this is why this decision was made for the different beaches in Normandy.
SPEAKER 11 :
That's correct. The obvious, the Germans thought that we were going to attack at the narrowest point between England and France, which is a place called Pas-de-Calais. And in a clear day, which is rare, you can actually see the cliffs of Dover from France. So it's a very narrow distance. But the problem is the Germans figured that out, too, and it was extremely heavily fortified. And so the American planners knew that they had to go somewhere else. And one of the things I'm researching for my next trilogy is why did we have to go into France? If you look at a map, Belgium seems to be the place we should have attacked, but I haven't been able to really discern that. But once you decide that you're not going to the Pot of Clay, the next best place is down around the Normandy area because you needed a wide front. Okay. 50 miles is what they wanted. Montgomery said if you can't launch a 50-mile front, I want no part of it. And so you've got to have a lot of area, and you have to have suitable, you know, You have to have an area where you can get inland and can't be trapped. And so that's why the SHAPE, Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force, that's why their planners decided that the best course of action was to attack at Normandy. And Utah Beach, Omaha Beach were the American beaches, were soared. And gold were the British beaches, and Juneau was the Canadian beach. So you had this 50-mile front. Wow. So it was just picked basically because of geography and necessity. Wow.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Omaha ended up being known as Bloody Omaha because of all the beaches.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, we can talk about that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, let's talk about that. But what would you say was the primary element that made this acceptable place? I guess you kind of explained that already, though, right?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, no, not really, because you have this steep slope. But you can't get vehicles up it. And if you can't get vehicles off the beach, you can't win the battle. You got to get tanks. You got to get trucks. You got to get half tracks, all these weapons of war. You have to get them up into the battle. But the primary element was the fact that there were four stream beds. that ran down from the top of the plateau to the beaches below and over millions of years of erosion created shallow sloped passages from the normandy plateau down to the shoreline there was even a road of sorts through each Omaha Beach, before the war, was a resort area. And so there were lots of cottages and things actually down on the beach that the Germans had pretty much destroyed, but they were there. At least one of these gas stations gulches had to be captured as soon as possible and in order to get the machines of war off the beach and into the battle and it could not like i said could not be won until we did that but in essence these draws posed an enormous deadly temptation that we should have been smart enough to see the danger they posed so what was that Well, the Germans figured this is too. And so that's where they put all their heaviest fortifications, on each side of the draw at the point where at the top of the slope. And so there was an enormous trap, if you think about it, with the Widerstand. These were called Widerstand nests or resistance nests. And they contained every manner of killing device or implement available. We'll talk about it in a minute here, about how big these were. Everything was interconnected with trenches, and so the defenders could move from place to place with good cover. It was, in essence, a series of traps with the draws as the bait and the Widerstahn nests as the jaws poised to snap shut. Rommel was not given much time or adequate resources to build an impregnable defense on Omaha Beach, but he did manage to install eight major gun emplacements of 75 millimeters or more, larger, which are yay big, right? And Rommel was the German commander, right? Right. He was the—well, he was— By far the best tactical commander the Germans had. He was known as the Desert Fox because he ran the British all around Africa, which he was most known for. But he was assigned in late 1943 to command the defenses of the Atlantic coast, Normandy just being one of those. But he built not only the 75, the eight major gun emplacements, he built 35 other concrete bunkers with smaller caliber artillery and lots and lots of mortars, machine guns, and flamethrowers in what were called Tobruks, which are just basically a concrete foxhole.
SPEAKER 03 :
And when I was in Normandy, you can go into those and you can see them. Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
They're still there. I mean, they're three feet of reinforced concrete. But anyway, he was very cleverly that when you see the pictures, they show the guns pointing out to sea. But Rommel was much more clever than that. He actually pointed the guns on Omaha Beach up or down the beach. so that they were aimed at soldiers trying to cross the beach, not the ships in the channel. But as a result, the Navy couldn't see them. And so when they attempted to bombard them, they missed because they had really no idea of where they were. I mean, they had them on a map. But once it's on a map, how do you translate that to where you're shooting? So anyway, it worked against, or again, the guys on the beach, as almost everything seemed to conspire against them. I would say that that was the deadliest three miles in the world at that time. And as expected, the landing craft who beached in front of those draws sustained the highest casualties.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and that's why your books are so important. You've written this trilogy and we're talking about your first book, which people can purchase at Amazon or any of the other places that sell books. It's called The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. And these shows come to you because of our sponsors. I know each and every one of them personally. And one of those is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. And Roger's been in business for 48 years, taking care of his clients and his family, giving back to the community. So give them a call at 303-795-8855 for a complimentary appointment. Like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan team is there.
SPEAKER 16 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
If you love The Kim Munson Show, strive for excellence and understand the importance of engaging in the battle of ideas that is raging in America. Then talk with Kim about partnership, sponsorship opportunities. Email Kim at kimmunson.com. Kim focuses on creating relationships with individuals and businesses that are tops in their fields. So they are the trusted experts listeners turn to when looking for products or services. Kim personally endorses each of her sponsors. Again, reach out to Kim at KimMunson.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. And you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues. Through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom, if something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And wishing you all a very Merry Christmas. And for this Christmas week, we have prerecorded very special shows with very special guests. And I'm talking with Dennis Bush. He has written a trilogy of books. about the World War II battle on Omaha Beach. And the first book is published. It's called The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. And really, I think everybody should have this book in their freedom library because you talk about some individuals who we don't know that much about. But Omaha is known as Bloody Omaha because it was very lethal, right?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes. Well, and it wasn't just the Germans that made it lethal. There were other issues that had an immense impact on the horrendous cost, and these were self-imposed by the leadership and planning of the Allied forces. Doesn't make sense. I was hoping I could go into these areas in more detail, but I simply don't have that much time, so I will just list some of them here. If you want more detail, I do that in the first book of the trilogy on sale now. Okay. Sorry for the plug.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
These errors are most disturbing to me because they should have been addressed by the extensive planning that went into the operation, and it is very difficult to understand why things happened as they did. One, at the top of the list is the inexplicable failure of the Air Corps and the Navy to effectively eliminate or otherwise severely damage the German defensive positions prior to the attack. Their efforts were massive. 2.3 million pounds of explosives were dropped by the 8th Air Force prior to the battle. Wow. And they all missed for reasons that just astound me. It's such that if they had done nothing in their pre-bombardment, and this includes the Navy, nothing would have changed. These powerful forces were in effect a no-show on Omaha Beach on D-Day. Two, one of the great and inexcusable factors that was not taken into account in the planning was the strong, totally predictable easterly current that was set up by the incoming tide. This drastically affected where every landing craft was planned to land versus where they actually did. They spent weeks studying the maps and they had sand tables and aerial photographs of where they were going to land and what was there. But none of them virtually landed where they were supposed to. And they were off, because of this current, they were off as much as a mile. Wow. And you can imagine the confusion that caused these poor guys. Three, both types of personnel landing craft in the first wave had a maximum capacity of 36 troops. Well, the standard platoon size at that time was 40 to 50 men. This is what's called an inexcusable error in engineering. I mean, so they couldn't even board an entire platoon on a landing craft. They had to break them up into pieces. They called these... boat sections. So the Army, in fact, had to reorganize before the battle. And then after the beach was secured, the plan was to go back to their normal structure of platoons. But you can imagine the confusion that that creates. Something that a lot of people don't know is that a large number of tanks, you know, the big machines with the guns on them, was supposed to be landed with the first wave of But the implementation of this was so incompetent that the effect was virtually nil, leaving the infantry to basically fend for themselves. And most of the tanks and the crews lie on the bottom of the channel to this day. Many still contain their crews.
SPEAKER 03 :
I did not know that.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, most people don't. That's one of the things, like I said, I had a fairly large section prepared to explain that. The question is, how do you get a tank from a boat to the shore? Well, they built these really elaborate contraptions where they erected a canvas screen on the deck of the tanks. The principle is very simple. It's Archimedes' principle. You can float something as big as a tank if you offset enough water. And so the tanks were actually underwater, but this skirt was above water. Well, the problem was you could only do this on calm seas. And Normandy on D-Day was anything but calm. And if enough water splashed over the top of this screen, the tank sank. And out of—let me just look at my notes here— out of the 119 tanks that were launched to the shore, 63 of them sank to the bottom of the Seenglish Channel.
SPEAKER 14 :
Oh, my gosh.
SPEAKER 11 :
And the few that did make it to shore, because the Army Air Corps and the Navy had not eliminated the German positions, they were fair game for these big guns.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
So very few of these tanks survived the day. The reason most people have never heard of it is this information was classified until the mid-'60s.
SPEAKER 05 :
Huh.
SPEAKER 11 :
And you can imagine why. Right. Anyway, those are things that also exacerbated the problem for the ground troops. I think it's only proper to understand what they did in spite of all of this. All of these failures did not cause the operation to fail. So what bailed it out? American G.I.s.
SPEAKER 03 :
It takes my breath away, Dennis Bush. And that's why these books are so important. And so you have, in these books, you have, you tell the stories of men whose most people haven't ever heard their names. Yeah. So where do you want to start?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, I call it the real heroes, and it's based around about 12 men. 35,000 men actually landed on Omaha Beach on D-Day. But you can actually attribute the victory to about a dozen guys who stood up. And the amazing thing about this is that they ranged from sergeants to generals. Virtually every rank you can name were some of these heroes. But they stood above the rest. Now, there are obviously many, many more heroes. I mean, virtually any of the 35,000 had to be considered a hero. But these guys were significant. And when you understand what they did, you will feel just like I did. I was absolutely astonished at what they had done. Well, so who do you want to start with? Well, let's start with Lieutenant Jimmy Monteith. Monteith was a boat section commander in Love Company, which is L, of the 16th Infantry Regiment as part of the 1st Infantry Division. Okay. Let's start with him because he is the subject. He is in this first book because the first book is about the eastern half of Omaha Beach, which is under the direction of the 1st Infantry Division. Book two is about the western half of the beach, and book three is about Pointe du Hoc. Okay. And they're all written. They're done. I'm just waiting for publishing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, so the first one's published, and it was published this last October.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah. Okay. uh and it's now in the if you've ever published a book it takes forever uh and it's now in the sales marketing phase of the the publisher so uh i i just moved on i mean i finished these books back in 23 uh and i'm now writing another trilogy about utah beach so that's what i'm doing uh Love Company was in the 3rd Battalion of the 16th Infantry Regiment of the 1st Infantry Division under the command of Captain John Armellino aboard six British LCAs. Thanks to the unexpected current, they landed between 0650 and 0700 hours. They were 20 minutes late. Worse, they landed on Fox Red Beach, some 800 meters east of where they were supposed to, and as such were confronted with a very different situation than expected or planned. They were directly in front of the formidable Widerstawn nest, WN-60, and right next to the K-Board draw. Now, remember, these Widerstad nests were major guns and minor guns, big and small guns, lots of machine guns, this thing called an MG-42, flamethrowers, mortars. They were heavily armed. Wow. Okay, and our guys were basically carrying rifles. Some of them had what's called a BAR. Right. They had a weapon called a bazooka, which we'll get into a little later. But fundamentally, light warms. We didn't have artillery on the beach. We didn't have aircraft strafing like they would do now. They were not doing that during this. So these guys were on their own. Yeah. In getting across the beach, only about 55 men out of the original 235 men made it across that beach in such a condition as to continue their mission. At the end of the beach, they found sanctuary of a cliff about 10 meters high. It provided temporary respite from the German position directly above them. There, the medics could work on the many wounded with some sanctuary. Regardless of the horrible casualties initially and suffered, Armalino was intent on getting atop the plateau, take out WN-60, and then move south to assault the villages beyond. But he was seriously wounded trying to get tank support. Lieutenant Jimmy Monteith took his place, helping the two tanks engage the enemy, while Armalino fought for his life. He lost his leg. Lieutenant Cutler, the senior lieutenant, assumed command of what was left of Love Company. He split his small force in two and sent half to the east to flank the German Widerstand nest, and the rest went to the west up the Cape or draw to do the same. the two groups met in the rear and took out the formidable German fortress from there. And so doing, they not only eliminated one of the German Widerstand nests, its complement of big and small guns and men, but also eliminated a critical spotter position that had a total view of Omaha Beach and was in direct contact with several artillery units in the rear. And so they blinded them. So now the German artillery was firing blind. They also created, in effect, the eastern flank of the American assault. Fortunately, they only suffered one dead and a few minor wounded in the attack. It's a big difference when you assault a strong position from the rear rather than the front. Incredibly, This all occurred before 9 a.m.
SPEAKER 03 :
It is unbelievable. Let's continue the discussion. I'm talking with Dennis Bush about his book, The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. And we're talking about Lieutenant Jimmy Monteith. And we get to have these discussions because of our sponsors. And one of those great sponsors is Karen Levine.
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SPEAKER 01 :
You'd like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can't remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim's website, kimmunson.com. That's Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Something's a good idea. You should not have to force people to do it. And I want to say thank you to the Harris family for their gold sponsorship of the show. And also the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo on the beautiful Riverwalk, does several things. One of those is they honor our Medal of Honor recipients. And it was co-founded by Drew Dix, a Medal of Honor recipient for actions he took during the Vietnam War, and Brad Padula, an Emmy Award winning documentary maker. And Drew and Brad realized that we need to honor these stories. We need to instill in ourselves these values of honor, integrity, and patriotism. So be sure and check out the website. That is AmericanValuesCenter.org, AmericanValuesCenter.org. And we have prerecorded these shows for Christmas week with amazing guests, amazing subjects. I'm talking with author of The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach, which was a World War II battle, Dennis Bush. And we were talking about Lieutenant Jimmy Monteith. And where did he grow up?
SPEAKER 11 :
He grew up in Virginia. The thing that's amazing about these heroes is because they're mostly just average people. They didn't come from wealth, in most cases. They didn't come from privilege. They're just sons, mostly, of normal American families who, on the worst day of their life, behaved incredibly. And to most of them, after the war, some of them, the ones who did, continued to the war and continued to be of great service, but then they just went back to their life. They didn't, you know, some of them were... One guy that we may have time to talk about today, he worked in a department store selling men's suits. It's remarkable.
SPEAKER 03 :
But those stories are of everyday people from the Revolutionary War. We recently talked about Henry Knox in the Revolutionary War that got the cannons from Fort Ticonderoga and helped eliminate the British siege of Boston. And I think he was a bookseller. Yeah. Regular people.
SPEAKER 11 :
So tell us more about Jimmy Monteith. Well, remember now, we're down to 55 men out of what should have been 200. But they're either dead or wounded back on the beach. But they took a short break and then immediately headed south to a crossroads where they set up a defensive position. Two patrols were sent out. one to the east to scout the village of La Grande Hamue, pardon my French, the other southwest to scout out the small village of Kaborg. So soon after, the Germans regrouped and attacked the remaining forces of the defensive position, which was probably now down to about 40 men because they had these two patrols out. Greatly outnumbered, the Yanks dug in and returned fire as best they could. The greatest threat was four machine guns that hit them from all points of the compass. Lieutenant Jimmy Monteith set out by himself to eliminate this threat. He succeeded in taking out three of the positions, but was but was cut down by the fourth gun. To take them out, he used what's called rifle grenades and pineapple grenades. So he had to get real close. So it was amazingly that he was able to take out three. He was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for his valiant efforts. Meanwhile, Love Company finally beat back the German counterattack, and by the morning of the 7th of June, captured the villages of Le Grand Hommeu and Kaborg, as well as a portion of the critical coastal highway. Today, no one seems to care or know about one of the three men to receive the Medal of Honor on Omaha Beach on D-Day.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, my gosh. And he did not survive the battle?
SPEAKER 11 :
No, he was killed. And I think he's buried there in the cemetery.
SPEAKER 03 :
At Normandy?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. I just get chills thinking about him. What about our next hero?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, his name is Raymond Strojny, and he was a tech sergeant. And what he did, when I read it, my jaw hit the floor. Let me just read about his exploits. The men of Easy and Fox Companies of the 16th Infantry Regiment of the 1st Infantry Division came ashore for the most part directly in the mouth of the Colville Draw, euphemistically the jaws of the Nazi beast. They were supposed to have landed about 1,500 meters to their west, but again, the strong easterly current and the smoke-shrouded bluffs led their coxswains to land them considerably to the east of where they were intended to be. Unfortunately, this was in the front of German Widerstandnest WN-61 and its powerful 88-millimeter killing machine, along with considerable other firepower. Hmm. In command of the 5th Section of Fox Company, 2nd Battalion, 16th Infantry Regiment, was Lieutenant Otto Clemens. Tech Sergeant Raymond Strojny, a decorated veteran of both Africa and Sicily, was his assistant. After only a few minutes on shore, Sergeant Strojny found himself in command of not only the 5th Section, but all of Fox Company as his superiors were all dead. My, okay. He immediately herded what was left of his company to the left and to the top of the beach where they found some cover. From there, he watched in horror as the WN-6188 took out three of the few tanks left on the beach. Incensed, Strogini called for a bazooka team, but none heeded his call, if there were even any left. So he went back down to the beach and scrounged a bazooka. along with four rockets from a badly wounded soldier. Then after crossing through a minefield, he made it back to his former position where he discovered that the bazooka had been pierced by several pieces of shrapnel, making it a weapon as dangerous to him as any target he fired on. It could just as well have blown up in his face rather than launch a rocket at the enemy. Also, the bazooka is normally a crew-served weapon with both a loader and a shooter because you have to keep the rocket tube level while loading, aiming, and firing lest the rocket fall out the front or the back. Oh, boy. Well designed, right? Yeah. But he went ahead and did this with the four rockets he had. The first two rockets missed the target altogether, but the third and fourth round hit the concrete fronted position but did not stop or deter the 88 from firing at the men and vehicles struggling to get across the beach.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
Out of ammunition, Strangene yelled to his men to see if any of them were carrying rockets. Getting no response, he went back down to the beach and secured several more. He then loaded and fired six more rockets at the strong German position, and with the last round hit what was apparently the ammo dump, and after a massive explosion, most of WM-61 went silent, including the 88th. but the position still had teeth and continued to fire at his men, along with any others who came into their sights. Once again, out of rockets, Strogini took up his M1 rifle and began to shoot at the enemy. This next piece is incredible. After a few minutes, he was struck in the helmet by a German bullet just above the left eye. The concussion knocked him back and flat onto the ground. Stunned, but apparently unhurt, he took off and examined his helmet, which had both an entry and an exit hole. But miraculously, the bullet missed him altogether, but rather left just a deep scratch that ran from the front to the back of his head. It didn't penetrate enough to bleed, but he escaped certain death with no discernible explanation. When he showed this to his men who were nearby and putting up a minimum of resistance, the effect was that it shocked them back into the war and made them ready to take on their adversary. Strojny would then lead the remnants of Fox Company and elements of other rifle companies and attacked and captured the German Widerstand nest. They were aided by two tanks that had survived their swim in the channel and German guns, along with a British destroyer, which came perilously close to shore where it was able to see the German positions. Once WN-61 had been neutralized, Strogeny led his makeshift band to attack up the hill where they reached before noon on D-Day. The tech sergeant was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for his efforts, which seems way too little acknowledgement for his actions. Worse, no one today even knows who he was or anything about what extraordinary things he did on 6 June.
SPEAKER 03 :
Until this book, Dennis Bush, The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. And we will continue the discussion. Before we go to break, I did want to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation Foundation. And keeping these stories alive, honoring those that have given their lives or been willing to give their lives is so important. And so I would really recommend that you make a contribution. It's tax deductible to the USMC Memorial Foundation. And that website is usmcmemorialfoundation.org. And for everything mortgages, reach out to Lauren Levy. Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is kimmunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at kimmunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And the show comes to you because of our great sponsors. And a sponsor that's been with me since before I was solo is Hooters Restaurants. And they have five locations, Loveland, Aurora, Lone Tree, Westminster, and Colorado Springs. Great place to get together with friends for a happy hour or lunch specials Monday through Friday. And, of course, the place to watch all the bowl games. So, again, that is Hooters Restaurants. In studio with me is Dennis Bush, and we have prerecorded these shows for Christmas week, and very special guests, very special subjects. We're talking about his book, The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach, and of course, Omaha Beach is known as Bloody Omaha for that battle in World War II. But we're talking about guys that people don't really know their names. And we have talked about, let's see, it was Jimmy Monteith, and then Tech Sergeant Raymond Strogeny. But there's three others on that, is it the east side of Omaha?
SPEAKER 11 :
That I designate as the real heroes.
SPEAKER 03 :
In this book one. So who are they?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, Lieutenant John Spalding was a boat section commander. This was his first combat assignment. But they always put an experienced sergeant with the lieutenant. I mean, this was basically a training ground, if you think about it. And the sergeant was a guy by the name of Philip Strissick. And he was extremely experienced, had already been awarded the DSC for actions in Africa. And the lieutenant was smart enough to know that technically he was in command, but he let the sergeant make all the tactical decisions. So it was good. Now, the boat section... They were in Easy Company, but the Easy Company by and large landed right in front of the Colville Draw where they were heavily engaged and took a lot of casualties. But for some reason, his boat did not land there. But it kind of did worse because it hit a sandbar. And so they dropped the door of this LCVP, which was the front end of the boat, and they're still 200 miles from the shore, 200 yards from the shore. Oh, jeez. And they're on a sandbar, but beyond the sandbar, the water is deeper than over their heads. So these guys have to tread water to get to shore. With their packs on, right? With a full pack, a rifle. Oh. and other equipment. And it's a miracle. They helped to help each other because they could all, you know, they fortunately made it, but some of them could have drowned. I mean, they were that heavily carried. So anyway, they hit the shore, and now they're dead tired. But they're being shot at, so they got to run as fast as they can. Now, fortunately, only one guy was cut down because they had landed far enough away from these Widerstand nests that the German resistance at the top of the slope was minimal.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
So they got across the beach and lost only one guy, although eight were wounded. They found some ruins of walls that had been there from when I told you the resort area that had been there previous, which gave them a sanctuary. But they could tell that right beyond it, between them and the slope, was a huge minefield. because the Germans put up signs, Ochthund Meinen. And so they knew it was a minefield. But Sergeant Strzic started to reconnoiter the area. And in the meantime, a lot of these guys had lost their rifles swimming to shore. So they scrounged down the beach, again under fire, and found weapons from either wounded or dead soldiers, and then all reformed. Well, Strzic finds a path. up the shore. And if you go to Normandy, this path is very highly publicized on the beach. And then they go up this path and get to the top. Now there they find a machine gun, which they take out, but three men are wounded. The guy that mans the machine gun happens to be a Polish conscript. The Germans, when they captured armies, would give the soldiers an option. You either go to POW camp or you can join the German army. And so this is why on Utah, they ran into Mongols who were captured on the Eastern Front. I did not know that. And in this case, most of the defenders of this area were Polish who had been in the Polish army and were given opportunities to serve in the German army. And because it was better food, obviously, they chose that option.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay. So anyway, Strzic, who is extremely angry because he finds a Polish guy serving in the German army. And, of course, he's an American. And he interrogates this guy, which I'm assuming he broke a few rules. But he was able to get the information about what was around them in terms of both enemy forces and terrain and things like that. And so they take a break. And in the meantime, the entire company of George, it was a George company, came ashore roughly at the same point. Now, this is a company, which is six boats of men, and they get across the shore again because of light German resistance. The only real casualties was the headquarters boat. which took a direct hit from artillery after the commander, Captain Joseph Dawson, got off. And that entire group of men were killed before they ever got off the boat except for the commander of the company. And Dawson had been a staff officer up to this point. He was basically in command of a company and they knew he was green as could be. And so he knew he had to prove himself to his men. And after this day... They did not question his leadership one bit. So what did he do? Well, he went up the same trail that Strzic and Spalding had gone up. And is he by himself? No, he's got all the rifle. The only thing that was damaged was the headquarters company. The rest of the boat sections of the guys carrying rifles survived. Okay, so they— headquarter boat though everybody everybody but Dawson was killed okay okay so these guys are following Dawson up the ridge and then he gets up and he meets Spalding and they talk and he says I'm going on to Colville which is a village about a mile further inland that was his assignment for the day and But Spalding says, no, I'm going to take out this German Widerstand nest to our right and then I'll join you. And so Spalding heads off to Colville, which he attacks about an hour later from the west. And they were told that there were only about 20 Germans in the village. It turns out to be closer to 200. Plus, while they're fighting for this village, the Germans decide to counterattack, and they use Colville as their initial point of attack. So he's being hit by a heavily armed force. But his men hold their ground. The villages in Normandy are mostly made of stone, the homes and barns and stuff, which make great fortifications. So his guys were able to hunker down until they got reinforcements. Meanwhile... Spalding and Strzic take out. They're now in the rear, so they come back and come around to the flank of this entire German Widerstand nest, and they take it out systematically from the flank and the rear, moving down the entire line. And then, of course, they're greatly outnumbered. They're only about 22 guys. because they were a boat section, and they lost eight coming across, nine coming across the beach. So there's only a guy like 22 guys, and they take out this entire German feeder stone nest, capturing 19 and killing an untold number of German soldiers and eliminating all of these guns. And so the guys down on the beach are stunned because all of a sudden they're getting no fire from the east side of the Colville draw. It just stops. Now, the guys on top have to throw out yellow smoke grenades because the Navy's shelling the place, and the yellow smoke grenades indicate that the Americans are there. And so they took this. And then he goes back and joins up with Dawson trying to take the village of Colville. Well, they don't actually participate in taking the village, but they are used as the reinforcements that help take out or stall the German counterattack, which they defeat. And so by the morning of the 7th, Colville falls to Dawson's men. And both he, Dawson, Strzic, and Spalding are awarded, again, the DSC. Have you ever heard that story?
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I've never heard it. So these depictions of what these men did is in your book, The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. And Dennis Bush, I think that in 2024 America, that as we listen to the or read these stories and think about these men, it gives us inspiration as we engage in this great battle of ideas that we are And what I find so amazing is that as fierce as the fighting was on Omaha Beach, by that afternoon or evening, the Allies had a toehold on the European continent. It's remarkable, and it's these young men that did it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, and what I'm trying to do is highlight the actions of a few men who did extraordinary things on the worst day of their life, right? And that's what I was trying to do with this book, is tell their stories. So anyway, this is a brief synopsis of the book, the first book in the trilogy, called The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. We have only discussed here the efforts of five of these men, those that were on the eastern half of the Omaha of the beach. Keep in mind that there were many, many, many more heroes that made Omaha Beach the success it was. But I have selected these few men to illustrate the character, the courage, the ingenuity, the exceptionalism of the American fighting man and now women, Omaha Beach will forever be a testament to these things.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and we've got just a couple of minutes left, Dennis. These books, such as yours, are so important. And one of the reasons why is our young people don't know these stories. And once they start to—there were students with us when we went to Omaha Beach. There was 24 to Normandy. And as these kids are hearing these stories, you can see the light go on. It's like I want to know more. And so I would really recommend people get the book, read it, and then start to share these stories with children and grandchildren. I think that that can make a big difference for our country. Sure.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, that's why I wrote it. I mean, like I said, I'm trying to do my part to make America proud again because this is an exceptional nation, and we are the greatest nation the world has ever seen or probably ever will. And if I can do my part, then I have lived a successful life.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I think that you are doing your part, and each of us is called to do our part. Normally, for the regular show, as I greet our listeners, I say that we were made for this moment in history, and I am convinced that that is the case. And we stand on the shoulders of those from the Revolutionary War to the Civil War to World War II, Omaha Beach, and we can take such great inspiration from from these men and women that stood for liberty for all of us and worked to pass that on. So Dennis Bush, I thank you for taking the time to write these books. The first one is for sale right now. You can get it at all the booksellers. It's The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach by Dennis Bush, and Bush is spelled B-U-S-C-H. So I thank you.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right. Well, it's on Amazon, so it's the easiest way to get it. And just all you have to do is search for my name, Dennis Bush, and you'll find the book.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Our quote for the end of the show is from Dwight Eisenhower as he is talking with the troops on D-Day. He said, "...the eyes of the world are upon you. The hope and prayers of liberty-loving people everywhere march with you as well." So today, my friends, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America. Stay tuned for hour number two.
SPEAKER 12 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 09 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 03 :
I find that it takes work to get your brain around these ideas and it takes work to engage in these conversations.
SPEAKER 09 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 03 :
With what is happening down at the statehouse, I used to think that it was above my pay grade to read the legislation. And it's not.
SPEAKER 09 :
Today's current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 03 :
I see big danger in as much as we will be giving an unelected bureaucrat the power to make rules about what we inject into our bodies.
SPEAKER 09 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Indeed, and welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You're each treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. And I get to work with an amazing team. That's producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. The show does broadcast six to eight a.m. Monday through Friday. First hour rebroadcast one to two in the afternoon. Second hour, 10 to 11 at night. And that's on all KLZ 560 platforms. That's KLZ 560 AM, KLZ 100.7 FM, the KLZ website and the KLZ app. And then we do post a written summary and a podcast of the show. And the way you find that is go to the website and just click on the image for each date, and that'll bring that up. And then once that is posted, you can listen to the podcast at all the streaming services, such as iTunes and Spotify. On the line with me is Marlee Hornick. She is one of the co-founders of United Sovereign Americans, who... did amazing work in this last election, and we're honored that they would include Colorado as one of their states where they filed a lawsuit to basically says, hey, Colorado, you're not hitting the minimum standards as set forth by Congress for our elections. It's a civil rights issue. I guess, in a way, just get your act together. Marlee Hornick, welcome to the show. Thanks, Kim. It's great to be on again. And we were very pleased to be one of the nine states that filed suit before this last election. And my understanding is, I'm just learning about all this legalese stuff, but you kind of get into this ping pong back and forth with the attorneys. And that seems to be the case with these nine lawsuits, yes? Yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
That's correct. We are in a ping pong battle with the government in all nine states. And what each state is asserting is that basically the arguments don't have standing. There's not a particularized injury that's been claimed. It's a generalized injury, meaning every citizen has suffered injury to their vote. Therefore, there is no injury, which of course is not real. That is a fake argument in this instance, because if every citizen suffers an injury to their vote, that doesn't make it equal. There's no way to know whether or not it was equal, but they use these kinds of nonsense arguments, honestly, when you really look at it deeply. Superficially, you might be able to bind yourself back into that one and justify it. But on a deep level, it just doesn't meet the standard. And of course the Supreme Court has ruled in the past that actually you don't have to have a particularized injury in regards to voting. It is possible for everyone to have the same injury. It's somewhat akin, and this is one of the arguments raised originally by Bruce Castor III in one of his motion briefs in in the state of Ohio now in the mandamus lawsuit in the state of Ohio so similar to the one in Colorado that it's similar to air pollution right how can you say just because everyone's air is polluted equally that the pollution doesn't exist you can't and no one has any idea what the impact actually is of all of that pollution touching everyone so You know, in the case of pollution, well, the EPA says, all right, now we have to study it. In the case of an election, we say, well, now we have to open the books or they have to fix the problem. So that's, you know, the mandamus lawsuits, those nine federal lawsuits of which Colorado is one of those nine states. They all make the same argument that they either have to fix the problem. Well, actually, they basically make the argument that says, on the one hand, they have to fix the problem, and on the other hand, they have to satisfy the court. that they understand why the problem took place, and it's repaired truly, not just superficially.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, Marlee Hornick, for people that don't know about United Sovereign Americans, it is a group of volunteers, and you have chapters throughout the country. Here in Colorado, we do have a chapter, and Mike Cahoon is the Colorado director who is doing amazing work here in Colorado. Marlee?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes. One of the things that makes United Sovereign Americans a pretty unique volunteer organization is that our original pool of volunteers is unique. It is all people who are credentialed data analysts, software developers, programmers, auditors, legal analysts or scholars. The idea is not just that we kind of got together and did like a big cheer and a yahoo, but we actually got together and operated in the same way that you would operate a professional auditing agency. We took a very professional approach to, I guess, pouring through the state's records in 21 states total and making... comparisons and analogies across and using prevalence studies and using statistical methods, using programming methods that were uniform across the entire investigation and professional and based on expert credentials in nature. So that's one of the things that sets United Sovereign Americans apart. Yes, there's lots of people who are upset about elections. There's lots of people who reasonably have suspicions about the way elections are being administered and how the representatives are ultimately being authorized to serve in public office. United Sovereign Americans, instead of just getting mad and shouting, we took the approach of professional auditors tracking fraud, which is to say somewhere underneath all of that noise, there is an actual operator functioning. The way that the states lineup, what we discovered in Colorado relates to what we found in Ohio. It relates to what we found in Pennsylvania. It relates to every single state we audited, California, New York, Georgia, all of them. They have similar problems at a similar magnitude. And it's not just something you can easily excuse by saying, you know, it's a clerical error. It's some kind of a, quote, glitch in the system. IT HAS TO BE INVESTIGATED. SO THE ISSUE THAT WE, WHAT SEPARATES UNITED SOVEREIGN AMERICANS IS THE WAY WE SAT BACK INSTEAD OF JUST GETTING MAD AND TAKING OUR SUSPICIONS AND TURNING THEM INTO CONCLUSIONS AND SHOUTING ABOUT THEM, WE STARTED TRACKING WHAT WE CALLED A MARAUDER THROUGH THE SYSTEM. THE ACTUAL UNDERLYING UNDERNEATH ALL OF THAT NOISE AND BUSINESS, UNDER ALL OF THAT, THERE'S AN ACTUAL MARAUDER WHO IS CHANGING the certified outcomes of elections. And we started tracking them.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I think that is really important because we don't have a country if we don't have free, fair, honest, and transparent elections. And that's why the work of United Sovereign Americans is so important. And the show comes to you because of great sponsors. And throughout the month of December, we are promoting Doyle Glass's book, Swift Sword, which is about the Marines of Mike 3-5 on 4 September 1967. And as I've mentioned, we are pre-recording all these great shows for Christmas week and also pre-recording conversations with our great sponsors. And I'm talking with Karen Levine. She's a REMAX realtor, has been in the business for a long time. We've been friends for many years. And when I think of blessings, your friendship is one of those great blessings.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, thank you, Kim. And it's funny when your youngest son said, I think you've known me since birth. I'm like, oh, my, I have known your mother a bit, haven't I?
SPEAKER 03 :
I think that is true. So cute. We've been through lots of different things together in this journey with the radio show and you coming on being a regular guest. You and I have have. connected dots that we didn't even realize. And you stand for property rights. We realize that homeownership, property rights has been under assault. And I feel we have a great opportunity this next year, Karen, with the new administration. We've got work to do at the local, the county, and the state level. But you've been doing that at the local, county, state, and national level regarding property rights and homeownership. And I thank you for that.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, thank you. I've had the privilege of chairing the Government Affairs Committee at the local realtor association, the Denver Metro Association of Realtors, for the last two years. And then I was the vice chair prior to that. I've relinquished that position because I was term-limited, Kim. But I'm excited. The Denver Metro Association of Realtors is bringing on a new government affairs director, and I'm looking forward to good direction, good leadership, both from the staff perspective and then from the volunteer perspective. And I... not being in a chair position, I'm going to be a bit more vocal about things that add cost to housing and why we should not be supporting these type of policies, legislation, referendums, whatever they are, and having conversations with
SPEAKER 03 :
city councils and the state and we just need to keep having the conversation we do and you just mentioned something that got my attention and that is here you've been done a great job as the chair of this committee but you're term limited but yet and this was when I was on city council as well term limited but the bureaucrats are not term limited so I know people that want to have these forced term limits the founders thought we would do that at the ballot box but if we're doing some kind of term limits we need to also do term limits for bureaucrats I think we start there first correct and our dear friend
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, dear. Just you know how that happens. My friend from North Carolina, Lee Brown, Lee Brown, when she was running for office, term limits was very important to her as well. And I look back at it was a it was a young man that was a bit older than me growing up. But he served as our congressman here in my well, he wasn't in my congressional district until they redrew the lines. But Congressman Perlmutter, and he was not term limited, and there was a period of time that it really was time for him to move on. And it wasn't until they redrew the districts that he said, I'll retire. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
But we as voters, that's really where I think it should be. So we're going to work on that in 2025. We have a lot to do in 2025. But just we got about a minute. Your reflections regarding this Christmas Hanukkah season.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, it's one of my favorite time of seasons, times of year, I should say. And I love the fact that we can cram more into these 30 days than we do any other month of the year. I can have more social activities, more time with family and friends and still do more business. And I find it just amazing. But then you're exhausted. Right. So you need January to recuperate. But I'm looking forward, already have delved into time with family and friends. And we have a retreat in the mountains, which we'll partake in for some snowmobiling and fun and games up there. And I just look forward to the reason for the season, which we are blessed to obviously have a baby be born who has saved us to reunite us with God. And that's super important, I know, to you and to me. And so we need to remember to celebrate that beautiful gift that God gave us. And I look forward to hanging out a lot at my church and and then bringing in 2025 well and taking hold of the opportunities that God will give us in the new year.
SPEAKER 03 :
Karen Levine, that phone number is 303-877-7516. I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you very much. And same to you, Kim.
SPEAKER 15 :
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SPEAKER 01 :
You'd like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can't remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim's website, kimmunson.com. That's Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And I am so appreciative of the Harris family for their goal sponsorship of the show. They've been friends of the show and sponsors for so many years and greatly appreciate that. And also, as you all know, I support the USMC Memorial Foundation. The actual official Marine Memorial is located right here in Colorado in Golden at 6th and Colfax. And during the month of December, if you buy a brick that will be on one of the pathways of service, to honor your loved one's military service or your own military service, there is a donor who has stepped forward and will match the cost of that brick and help get us closer to our goal to be able to start that remodel. On the line with me is a co-founder of United Sovereign Americans, which is a group of all volunteers in a number of states that are focused on making sure that we get ourselves to a point where we have free, fair, honest, and Marlee Hornick, would you say that that's accurate? Is that the total focus on that?
SPEAKER 08 :
That is our current focus. Actually, United Sovereign Americans will have a broader focus in time, but at the moment, the most fundamental constitutional right is on the line, which is the right to choose our representatives in free, fair, honest, and accurate elections. So that's the first crisis you could say. I hate to say that word, but it really is.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it is. And before we went to break, you mentioned a marauder or marauders in our election system. So tell us more about that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Sure. Well, it's unknown whether it's singular or plural, because we cannot get law enforcement to investigate the problems that have been identified by United Sovereign Americans, by other organizations, New York Citizens Audit, by the work of Harry Howery and others, Harry being a co-founder of United Sovereign Americans also. But without law enforcement willingness to investigate the evidence of crimes from a criminal perspective, we can't know yet, let's say, about the qualities and nature of this marauder, except we can monitor them. So we can track what they're doing, we can measure it, and we can count it. And that's exactly what United Sovereign Americans did with the 21 state scorecards and the nine federal lawsuits. So the scorecards demonstrated that in 21 states, the problems are related to each other. It's not like Colorado has one problem and California has a different problem. They have basically the same problem, and we measured that and tracked it. And the first problem is that The states are registering people to vote without verifying their identity on a deep level, right? Not a superficial level, but on a deep level. That's going on everywhere in the country. And this amounts to, in the 21 states, it amounts to 29 million registrations. We could easily identify that there's an open question as to whether anybody even verified the accuracy of the information at all because these are circumstances like people who are registered to vote before they're born according to the official records. That's an example of the kind of data that is represented in those 29 million records. The second issue that we have across all the states is that the authorities are granting ballots to these people who are clearly not verified and not valid according to the law. Third problem is that no one can count in America. And this could be like the problem with the Common Core curriculum and whatnot. But it seems like maybe we haven't quite. Those kids aren't yet working at the Board of Elections, but they still can't count. And so they always ask either more or less votes counted than voters who actually participated. And that's the difference between those two numbers should always be zero. Right. Those three issues are all called election fraud in U.S. criminal code. Those are all called election fraud. I'm not making an allegation. This is the way the United States Department of Justice defines those three actions. And people have been prosecuted and sent to federal prison, for example, for certifying a false tally of votes in a single polling site. Multiple times in U.S. history. 1888, 1941, 1973, and countless other decisions that didn't even go to the Supreme Court. They were decided in district or circuit court. These are the problems we've unearthed. And the marauder is doing this by basically vote laundering. So you know how money laundering takes place, right? You want to get money from point A to point B, but you have to go through all these sub points along the way. You have to send it to different countries and send it through different parties and put it through a factory and whatever. And then by the time it gets to your destination, nobody can figure out how it got there. Nobody can trace it all the way back. It's clean. And the same thing they're doing with actual votes. They have all of these extra registration records. The 29 million we found, there's probably way more that we didn't find. These are the ones we found, right? Running like basic SQL queries. You know, we didn't touch the NCOA issue, for example, that Peter Wernicke ran for the state of Colorado. So there's all of these registration records that are basically parking places that a real voter doesn't put their car into and never will. So they know where these are and they can fold votes into the system through the process and then shift them around as they go. And so Basically, they certify an election. And what we've discovered, our scorecards show this, is that once the election is certified, then they start another massive manipulation of the vote, including the shocking finding, for example, that New York's 2020 election, at the time we first started studying it, was October of 2021. And there were 109 double votes recorded in 2020. in the 2020 election, now in the fall of 2021. When we audited that election again in the summer of 2023, there were 226,000 double votes recorded in the 2020 election because they are really bad at this. They're moving votes into places that are easily trapped. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense except that it's a really bad cleanup job. And we found this. So we took very careful records of the 2024 election now, and we have tracked literally in some states hundreds of thousands of votes attached to a single registration, appearing, disappearing, reappearing, disappearing, reappearing, and then getting certified. And now we're tracking them, washing those somewhere else. This is the marauder. It is a vote laundering operation. Why did we win the 2024 presidential election? I don't know 100 percent, but I do know that this marauder was highly intimidated by the fact that expert auditors, analysts and so on and so forth, programmers found these issues, counted them. reported them to state officials in 21 states, reported them to the FBI, the DOJ, and the Department of Homeland Security, and then even took the outrageous, unprecedented, historically unprecedented step of filing a massive wave of federal litigation pointing this out in court. And if I were that marauder, and this is what I believe happened, and this is what we believe at USA happened, I would back way off right then.
SPEAKER 03 :
I'm sorry, you would what? I missed that. Marla, you would do what? Back off. Okay, back off. Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
It doesn't mean they're gone. They're definitely not gone. And you can see what happened down ballot. And believe me, we are tracking all of these issues very, very meticulously in a forensic manner. And we have provenance and chain of custody. This is all evidentiary quality research that USA does. Because clearly, they didn't leave. They're not gone.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, and they're not giving up. Even before the election was over, I really believe that they were planning on... They play long... When I say they, I don't know exactly who that is, but I would say it's people that don't love America, that want power. And they... They don't give up, and they're very, very patient. So we're going to go to break. I'm talking with Marlee Hornick, co-founder of United Sovereign Americans. These discussions are so important. They come to you because of our sponsors. We're an independent voice, and we are independent because of sponsors like La Vaca Meat Company. It is a great protein source for that steakhouse experience at home.
SPEAKER 13 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
Focused and wise marketing is essential for your success, especially during tough economic times. If you love The Kim Munson Show, strive for excellence and understand the importance of engaging in the battle of ideas that is raging in America. Then talk with Kim about partnership, sponsorship opportunities. Email Kim at KimMunson.com. Kim focuses on creating relationships with individuals and businesses that are tops in their fields. So they are the trusted experts listeners turn to when looking for products or services. Kim personally endorses each of her sponsors. Again, reach out to Kim at KimMunson.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. And while we're on break... I highly recommend to take the kids down to the Center for American Values. They have their Portraits of Valor, which is a very reverent place of over 160 of our Medal of Honor recipients and quotes by each of them. And it's a great learning experience. They've got this great little Medal of Honor quote book that I'd recommend you have on your desk. at home on your Freedom Library, on your Freedom Shelf. And so be sure and check all that out. Go to AmericanValueCenter.org to get their hours and all of their information. And again, that's AmericanValueCenter.org. And talking with Marlee Hornick, she is a co-founder of United Sovereign Americans. It is a group of all volunteers throughout the country. They have chapters in many different states. We've got a chapter here in Colorado. And Mike Cahoon is is the Colorado director of United Sovereign Americans. And I have to tell you, the more I get to know him, the more I work with Mike Cahoon, the more impressed I am with. He's a very humble guy, but the more impressed I am with him, Marlee Hornick.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, he's a real treasure, an American treasure. So many people volunteering with United Sovereign Americans are like that. They're true People who want to get to the root of things, they want everything to be good in creation. And we come at it from maybe slightly different perspectives, but that's what we're looking at. We look out the window or go out in the fresh air and think, how can anyone not love this and want to figure out how to protect it?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And make sure that we pass that on to our children. I am convinced that we are in a unique time in history. And on the beginning of our show, I normally say we were made for this moment in history. And I believe that. And I also think that we are in the third founding of our country. Marley, on whether or not we Americans are going to step forward and reclaim our country, these founding principles. Our founding, obviously, was the Revolutionary War, then the Civil War. And I think that we're in that time right now. I'm encouraged, but we've got a lot of work to do. And it's really in this battle of ideas that we need to engage in, which you're doing that on a United Sovereign Americans, how many states are you active in right now with different chapters?
SPEAKER 08 :
Right now we have 24 states operating under United Sovereign Americans. We are working towards getting all 50. So that is one of our objectives. Although obviously our primary objective initially was just to get to assist in securing the 2024 election, which I believe we definitely accomplished. I don't know if we hadn't done this, if citizens who love this country and love this world and love liberty and believe in the principles of this country hadn't taken that step all over the nation. I don't know where we would be right now post 2024 election. I don't know who would be the incoming president and what the circumstances would be in Congress. So I'm so grateful that people did that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I am as well. And so let's talk a bit about Colorado. Out here in Colorado, just right before the election, it was made known that the Secretary of State, on a hidden tab on the Secretary of State website, had published the BIOS passwords to the voting machines for 63 of the 64 counties. And instead of notifying the county clerks that there was this security breach, the Secretary of State's office, they started – I guess checking it out, you would say, but they didn't let the county clerks know. And so we sent a letter to all of the county clerks asking, when did you know and how did you find out? And initially it was a letter by the Colorado State GOP that sent that out. And I find that pretty unconscionable that there would be a security breach like that and that the Secretary of State would not let all the county clerks know immediately, Marlee Hornick.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I agree. That's extremely concerning. And also, actually, what they should have done is not try to hide this and try to run their own side investigation, but they should have immediately shut down the website. And I know that may sound like a drastic solution, but when you have a security breach in a system that is sacrosanct, the system that determines representation in the United States of America, in the federal and state governments, you cannot tolerate a breach. It immediately has to be closed, whatever that gap is. And then the investigation begins. And it's literally an emergency. It's a breach of national security infrastructure. And a single official or a solitary official in Colorado doesn't have the authority to decide that that is not worthy of an emergency circumstance. And it begs a lot of questions as to what is the perspective of this individual in terms of their authority or their duty, rather, to the federal government and to the people of the United States of America as a whole to have Kind of like this idea that, hey, there's been a complete breach of security protocols regarding the system that's used to uphold the third sentence of the United States Constitution. And I'm just going to sweep it under the rug. That's unacceptable. And that could be considered a civil rights abridgment. I mean, obviously, without prosecutors, you can't make a criminal claim. But you can call that a deprivation of a fundamental civil right acting under color of law, depending on how the circumstances lay out, because that person had a duty to have a sworn duty to protect the election infrastructure of the United States of America from their seat. And they failed to do so. And no one knows. The problem is no one knows what the repercussions were. Right. You have to investigate and you have to close that gap instantly. That's how the law sees this.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and of course, apparently, the Colorado Secretary of State's office hired a firm to come in and take a look to see if anything had happened with this. And I think it would take an extensive amount of time to actually do that properly. And the Libertarian Party did file suit. on this and that case was heard the monday the monday right before election day and this is and i i went down and watched the hearing and the judge this is my understanding really of what the judge ruled is and this was the state of colorado saying you can't prove that anybody any any nefarious action was taken by anyone and since you can't prove that any nefarious people did anything nefarious, then everything's okay, and so move on. Yeah, that's a breach of federal law, actually.
SPEAKER 08 :
I know this is, like, overwhelming because how do you enforce federal law when the judges themselves either are ignorant of the law, they're ignorant of the philosophy of the law, or they just don't care, which is, you know, there's a lot of questions right there to answer, but that's improper. The law... A concerning critical national security infrastructure is very clear. A breach has to be, you don't have to prove that it was material, you have to prove that it was not material, okay? And the Colorado Secretary of State's office does not have jurisdiction over a breach of critical infrastructure. The agency that is actually authorized under federal law to examine and investigate breaches of critical national security infrastructure, she might think it's her website, but she's mistaken, is what I'm saying, is the Foreign Intelligence Task Force of the FBI. Because the threat that there could have been a foreign government or a foreign actor penetrating the system for their purpose is only authorized to be investigated by that branch of the FBI. So there are so many breaks in civil rights here. And you could say, oh, there are breaks in the law, but, you know, breaks in the law happen all the time. But this, again, third sentence of the United States Constitution says the people of the several states shall choose their representatives. Congress said we're going to have this electronic system. All the states purchased this electronic equipment. Now they have this digital system. They have websites. it doesn't change the fact that the entire system has to be surrounded by an impenetrable security barrier, a fortress, because this is how we govern our nation. So even losing a single congressional seat to some kind of private actor operating for their own benefit is abhorrent to the principles of the U.S. Constitution.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and so what we'd like to see, and trying to figure out how to go about this, is for a remedy to have an actual audit of the election and a hand count, because that seems like that would be very helpful in determining if anything happened with that. So we're asking for that, Marlee Hornick. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I think transparency of all records is critical in auditing. You cannot simply have a hand count. You have to have a comprehensive audit. It doesn't have to count every item. You don't have to actually have physical possession of every single record and audit every single record. You have to use prevalence studies to sample the entire process at critical junctions. This is one of the remedies that United Sovereign Americans will be proposing in federal court for the problems that we have. And we would be happy to help you, you know, instantly implement this remedy into whatever litigation you're looking at. And I highly recommend that we bring the USA team in to work with you if you're thinking of going further in litigation with this. because the hand count is not going to be sufficient and it's not going to be conclusive.
SPEAKER 03 :
OK, well, let's stay tuned on all of that. And again, I'm talking with Marlee Hornick, and she is the co-founder of United Sovereign Americans. We are an independent voice. We're independent because of sponsors. One of those is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance team. Roger's been in business for 48 years, taking care of his clients and his family and giving back to the community. And give them a call at 303-795 for a complimentary appointment. They'll sit down with you, go through your coverage, might be able to save you some money. If you bundle everything together, I know each and every one of my sponsors personally and highly recommend them. And if you are injured, be sure and reach out to John Boson and the Boson Law team.
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SPEAKER 10 :
All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of the Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
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SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And for this Christmas week, we are prerecording these shows with amazing guests. So pleased to have on the line with me, co-founder of United Sovereign Americans, Marlee Hornick. Marlee, we're talking about elections. And for us to have our country... We need to have free, fair, honest, transparent elections. And that's really what United Sovereign Americans has been focusing on. You've got chapters in 24 states. Colorado is one of those states. We have a lawsuit that is out there right now with eight other states regarding it was filed before this last election. And it's in that legal ping pong back and forth right now, which this whole legal thing is kind of a long game from what I'm learning.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, there are ways to, I guess, force it to go a little bit faster. But even when you try to force it to go faster, there's ways that the adversary that you're facing has ways to slow it down again. It's a challenging landscape. But like all things in American government, it's designed to happen slowly on purpose because changing our government through the kinds of decisions that can come through a major federal court should be deliberated over. And it should take time, as frustrating as that may seem in a moment, and especially with the massive challenges we're seeing regarding the invalidity of our current election process. So it's a
SPEAKER 03 :
A tough balance, I guess. It is. And Marlee, I know that you look at things nationally, but I look at Colorado. I think Colorado is the petri dish for all kinds of things that extremists are trying to get through. And I think that happens in our elections as well. And this is a head scratcher for me. The secretary of state has admitted that there were fraudulent ballots that went that got through in Mesa County. And that begs the question, I guess, first of all, is how can you certify an election where you know that there's fraudulent ballots that have gotten through the system? But if it happened in Mesa County, it seems like we should check the other counties as well, Marlee.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, yeah, that would be what you would do if the process were legitimate. And the concern over the validity of an election was sincere. You cannot certify an election where I think it was over 10,000 ballots, if I remember correctly, went out. And no one really knows the nature of what happened after that. But, you know, there's this kind of superficial quality to the administration process of elections, which, you know, in defense, not that I want to put myself in this position right now on your radio show, but in defense of the secretary of state, this is how elections have been operated for a very long time it's been uh over a hundred years since people really took this seriously it took the civil war you know to really light people up about the validity of elections and um and and then we kind of went down into the the status quo again which is there's always going to be some fraud and you can never fix the whole thing but The problem we're having is that she's saying this. Meanwhile, United Sovereign Americans has their other set of facts out there. Meanwhile, there's this other breach on the website. I mean, how many of these breaches can they just sweep under the rug and pretend that that is still representative government? So I think we agree that they are way past their surplus here. They're way over the top.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what would you say that everyday people, that they voted, there's many that say, relieved that Trump was elected and that the Biden-Harris-Walls team is not at the federal level pushing forward this radical agenda that they've been pushing forward. And so everyday people going back to their jobs, taking care of the families, their businesses, I don't know that they understand that there's, Really danger, danger on our elections still. But but they're busy. They're trying to keep it together. High inflation. What would you say to them?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, that's a really hard question, because I think I would probably just go to pieces. I mean, I just feel like it's such a hard landscape. We're not dealing with, you know, a little hush-hush. We're dealing with a massive information warfare scenario. That's what we're living through right now. And, you know, you calling this the third founding, I think, has some legitimacy. I have to, you know, it's the first time I heard you say that. I'm thinking it over. But we are in a war right now for our country. But it's a war of ideas. Like you said, it's an information war. And we... hold very few of the levers of power. So I actually, and I guess what I would say is, you know, please just contemplate these problems. There are so many problems we're facing as Americans. Each one of them is resolved at the root through true representative government. So even if the problem hasn't touched you yet, what happens is, you know, you look out and you see the problem, but you defend yourself against the problem. Your bank account is still OK. Your kids are still in school and they haven't been transitioned. You're this. You're that. You know, your kid is still doing really well on the baseball team and you want to make sure that that keeps going. Right. It's like. But the problems, it's like that statement they have. They came for the Jews, and I wasn't a Jew, so I didn't say anything. Then they came for, I don't know, the tree huggers, and I wasn't a tree hugger. Eventually, they come for everyone. So that's really the problem that we need to solve, which is, okay, you don't have to be interested in all of this myriad mess that some people are now, many, many, many Americans are embroiled in against their own wishes and against their own will. But if we all agree that elections should be fair and honest, let's work together to make sure they are. Let's just double check.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I think the big, broad part of America, and that would be your moderate Democrats, unaffiliated libertarians, Republicans, conservatives can come together because I think that we all want to make sure that we have these free, fair, honest, and transparent elections that we can trust. I have a quote that producer Steve had given me. This is by a woman named Martha Gellhorn. She was an American novelist, writer, and journalist. She lived 1908 to 1998. And she said, people often say with pride, I'm not interested in politics. They might as well say, I'm not interested in my standard of living, my health, my job, my rights, my freedoms, my future, or any future. If we mean to keep any control over our world and lives, we must be interested in politics. I think that's a great answer to maybe the question I posed to you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, and actually... I agree with that. And if you go back to Plato and his depiction of Socrates speaking to the political authorities in Athens, and they asked him, hey, who should run the republic? And he said it should be philosophers. Why? Because we have to be aimed at the good. We have to keep aiming ourselves at the good. And right now, our aim is going anywhere. all over the place. Like you're saying, hey, Colorado is the petri dish. Well, I'll tell you, the people in Michigan feel like they're the petri dish. The people in New York feel like they're the petri dish. All over the country, people feel, they look around and they say, this just doesn't make sense. This doesn't feel like the human society we were having. And all of a sudden it's changing and it feels like they're testing things out. Well, because we're not aiming at the good right now. This marauder who's mucking around in the elections is mucking around in civil society in ways that are unprecedented in human history. And we have to come together and say, we have a higher purpose. And that higher purpose is to together aim our country at the good. What is good for our children? What is good for our land? What is good for the water? What is good for everyone? What is good for the economy? What is good for freedom and liberty? Because And that's what makes America so special, because that's what happened. Our first founding, and now I'm kind of latching on to this idea, Kim, that our first founding examined these ideas so thoroughly throughout the entire Western philosophical tradition and took all of that information, all of that human experience, and turned it into a United States Constitution that said, here's the best solution human beings anywhere in space and time have come up with yet. to continue to point an entire nation at the good. That's what the Constitution means.
SPEAKER 03 :
That's what it's about. And that good, I would say, Marlee Hornick, is that everyday people, we are good stewards of this God's green earth that he has given us. But also that good is that human beings can thrive and flourish in liberty, which is the responsible exercise of freedom. Marlee Hornick, I so appreciate all the work that you're doing with United Sovereign Americans. And we've got to fasten our seatbelt. We have much work to do. But I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, thank you, Kim. You too. And thanks for having United Sovereign Americans on the show again. If people want to find us, unite4freedom.com. U-N-I-T-E number 4 freedom dot com is where you can catch us on the web.
SPEAKER 03 :
And if you go to the progress tab at the website, you can scroll down and you'll see the lawsuit and the actions taken for Colorado. So, Marlee Hornick, thank you so much. Thanks, Kim. And our quote for the end of the show is Thomas Edison. He said, Our greatest weakness lies in giving up. So never give up, my friends. And today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 04 :
Freedom Talking about
SPEAKER 12 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
Welcome to the Kim Monson Show podcast. Kim Monson is your host. Merry Christmas! Dr. Donald Sweeting, Chancellor of Colorado Christian University, invites us to go deeper into the message of Christmas which is the incarnation of Jesus. Dr. Sweeting discusses the potential perceived loneliness of Christmas and how to address it. Sixth generation farmer and rancher Trent Loos explains the importance of taking words back from the extreme radicals. Mortgage specialist Lorne Levy shares his thoughts about Christmas and the holidays. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Kim Monson Show airs on KLZ 560 AM every Monday thru Friday, 6-8 AM MST. You can listen to the live stream by going to www.klzradio.com
SPEAKER 04 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 10 :
And when government gets bigger, the individual gets smaller.
SPEAKER 04 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 10 :
For thee, but not for me. And I agree that we've got to change that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Today's current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 10 :
If, in fact, you are working for the man, it's a new form of slavery. is it freedom or is it force let's have a conversation indeed and welcome to the kim munson show thank you so much for joining us you're each treasured you're valued you have purpose today strive for excellence take care of your heart your soul your mind and your body my friends we were made for this moment in history and thank you the great team that i get to work with and that is producer joe uh zach Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, Joe, Luke, and Rachel. I'm blessed to work with a lot of really amazing people. We are pre-recording the shows for this week with amazing guests and amazing topics. And very pleased to have on the line with me Dr. Don Sweeting. He is the Chancellor of Colorado Christian University and wanted to talk with him about Christmas since we will be broadcasting this on Christmas Day. Dr. Sweeting, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hi, Kim. It's great to be with you today.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, it's great to be with you as well. And Christmas, what would you say to people that may only really think about Christianity during either Christmas or Easter? What would you say to them?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that's a good place to start, because Christmas emphasizes the incarnation of Jesus Christ, God sending His Son into the world, and Easter emphasizes His work on the cross and the resurrection, and those are the two pivotal moments in His first coming. So I'd say that's a great place to start. But I'd say go deeper. There's so much more there. This is a an incredible story that is transformational. And I'll give you an example if you want some examples of the power of the story. Okay, so I love Christmas. I love Christmas stories. You know, I love watching It's a Wonderful Life, which is about a transformation of George Bailey. And I love watching Charles Dickens' Christmas Carol, which is about the transformation of Ebenezer Scrooge. And I love watching The Grinch Who Sold Christmas because It's about someone whose head wasn't screwed on right and his shoes were too tight and his heart was two sizes too small. And I'm thinking, that's us. That's us. We desperately need the hope and the transformation that comes from the Christ of Christmas, not just the Christmas celebration itself. you know, and working up a sentimental feeling, but from the Christ of Christmas, because that's where the hope is. That's where the light is. That's where the power is. That's where the music, that's what inspires the music and everything else. That's the very center of Christmas.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and as we were preparing for this interview regarding Christmas, I continue, for some reason, I think of the shepherds. They just keep coming to mind. And what the angels said to them, and we'll use this for our quote at the end of the show, but he says, do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. What a message to our world, our country in 2024.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, it is a great message because it's so easy for fear to grip us, whether it was pre-election fear or post-election fear or, you know, drone fear or New Year fear. We had the head of our school of theology do a devotional on the angels the other day on this passage about the shepherds. It was fascinating. And he had some really great reminders. His name is Dr. David Cotter. And he said, you know, first of all, angels are not what we think they are. They were terrifying. They were not the Victorian ladies. They had to make sure, you know, tell people, do not fear. Do not fall apart in our presence. And then he said, isn't it interesting that with the shepherds, there was a multitude of heavenly hosts, a multitude, a vast, vast number, which probably would have also frightened them. And he said it was the same thing at Jesus' death at the end when he was talking to the high priest. He said, don't you think I could call 12 legions of angels right now? And the phrase used, in Luke 2 is there was a multitude of heavenly hosts. There was an army of angels. And Dr. Cotter said, now why a mighty army? And he said, because this was an invasion of This was God coming to earth to deliver us from sin, and the powers of hell were there to try to stop it. And the angel armies around these pivotal events in the work of Christ enabled them to go forward and for evil not to triumph. That's just a fascinating insight on what we've tamed. We've tamed the angels, haven't we?
SPEAKER 10 :
I never thought about it that way. But I'll contemplate that, I think, throughout the season. I was just getting chills as you were saying that. The other thing I think a lot of people don't understand was the shepherds were kind of the lowly of the lowliest. And in the Producers of the Chosen series, they have a film about the birth of Christ. And so they really portray the shepherds as kind of the lowly of the lowly. And the fact that the angels came to them means that all of us, with all the stuff that we have going on and We think we're not worthy. I think that that is a message of the angels coming to the shepherds. Your thoughts, Dr. Sweeting?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I believe that little clip of the shepherds was the pilot project that launched the Chosen series. If I'm not mistaken, that's how Dallas Jenkins began, and then it grew from there. So it was really well done. But I think you're exactly right. It speaks to the fact that Christ is for everyone. He's not just for the high and the mighty. He came in a lowly way. And it also points even further into the— not just the lowliness of the shepherds and Christ's availability to people of a lowly estate, but it talks about how God humbled himself, the eternal son of God humbled himself, as Philippians 2 says, taking the form of a servant, even to the point of becoming enfleshed in pink crying flesh and then being laid in an animal feed trough. I mean, it's absolutely stunning to think of what's happening there. There's an incredible... there's an incredible condescending, humiliation, descent of God to be with us, to lift us up, whoever we are.
SPEAKER 10 :
Boy, we need that message so much today. People, I was thinking about this the other day, is people want to believe in something. And so people will believe in something, and you can fill in the blanks. And that's why understanding why Christ really came to earth, why he went to the cross, was raised from the dead to overcome death and sin is really the foundational thing. Because the fact that the God of the universe would take human form because he wanted to have a relationship with each and every human being on this earth, it's beyond understanding for me, Dr. Sweeting.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, of course it is. It's beyond all our understanding. It's a grand mystery, the grand miracle, as C.S. Lewis called it. If you try to, you can't explain it all, right? I think back in the Old Testament, there was a time when Solomon was dedicating the temple, and he prays. This is in 1 Kings 8. And in his dedication prayer, he says, but will God indeed dwell on earth? Behold, heaven, even the highest heavens cannot contain you, how much less this house that I have built. You know, he's saying, but God chose to make himself known in that temple. But he's so much bigger. This is what Solomon was wrestling with. And this is the wonder of the incarnation. The God of creation, the God who created the super clusters and the black holes and the galaxies, This is the God who came to be with us. And there's a British writer in the 19th, early 20th century, G.K. Chesterton, who said, here's the wondrous thing about the manger. The thing inside the manger was bigger than the whole world. Okay, he's jogging your thoughts, as Chesterton always does, but you have the eternal second person of the Trinity accommodating himself to this world, taking on flesh, and he enters a manger, but he's the one who made the world. And it is an ultimate mystery. But it's a wondrous mystery, and life is filled with mysteries. But this is the great good mystery, and it's a story that's true. And it has power to lift you out of the doldrums and to give you hope and to transform your heart and to bring light into your life, because that's what Jesus does.
SPEAKER 10 :
Dr. Sweeting, I have a dear, dear friend who is really creative and smart and funny. But she had gone through a dark time in her life. And she has been transformed with her faith in Jesus Christ. It's a remarkable thing to watch. And she's more fervent than many, I think, of us regarding her faith. And that happens many times, yes?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yeah. Again, that's, you know, we have all these transformation stories to tell us that there's something at the heart of Christmas that is fantastic and wild and can change your life. And that something is not, you know, watching enough Christmas movies to get the spirit up. That something is a person, the person of Jesus Christ who came into the world, who is alive, who's real, who can be reckoned with, who can be known. He can, you know, forgive your sins. He can give you a new foundation for your life. He can bring hope when you're going through just incredible trouble and sorrow, which happens even at Christmas time, by the way. I mean, but that's the message of Christ. It's the message of the Bible.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and the other thing is, and this was a few years ago, my journey's been a long one, and that is I realized Christ to the cross is, Everything that we can experience as human beings, he experienced that. They took away everything. All of his friends left him. He was physically and physical, you know, physically hurt. So whether or not people are going through cancer or what. When he says he takes on our burdens, he takes on our burdens. And he can do that because he can understand it because he went through that, which I think is so important to reflect upon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it is. I mean, I remember when I was a pastor at Cherry Creek Presbyterian Church in town here in Greenwood Village. And it was one Christmas, and I love Christmas. I got all excited about it. And there was a family, and the husband died in a plane crash. And, you know, just horrible, terrible news in the midst of the holiday. And at first I thought, oh, this is going to ruin our Christmas. And then I thought, well, it's deeply tragic for all of us in the family. But this actually confirms the message that, you know, we live in an ER world. And we need someone just like Jesus, a Savior, to deliver us from the captivity that we all experience. I think Christmas is confirmed by the hard things that happen. It's not undermined in any way.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, absolutely. I'm talking with Dr. Donald Sweeting. He is the chancellor for Colorado Christian University. We're pre-recording these shows and so pleased to be broadcasting this on Christmas Day. We wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas. We are an independent voice and We get to work with amazing sponsors, and one of those is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. And Roger and his team know that there can be challenges out there, but they want you to understand your insurance coverage. So reach out to them at 303-795-8855 for a complimentary appointment. Like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan team is there.
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SPEAKER 10 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. Check out the website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. And very pleased to support the USMC Memorial Foundation. The official Marine Memorial is right here in Golden, Colorado at 6th and Colfax. It was dedicated in 1977. And Paula Sarles, who is the president of the foundation, she's also a Gold Star wife and a Marine veteran. And she and her team are working diligently to raise the money for the remodel. And be sure and give them a donation between now and the end of the year. to help make this a reality because honoring those that have given their lives or been willing to give their lives is just a small thing that we can do to show our appreciation. Again, that website is usmcmemorialfoundation.org. We wish you all a very Merry Christmas. We prerecorded these shows for Christmas week with really special guests and important subjects. I'm talking with Dr. Donald Sweeting. He is the Chancellor at Colorado Christian University. And Dr. Sweeting As joyful as Christmas should be for all of us, recognizing that Christ came as a baby to basically be our Savior, a lot of people have a really hard time during the holidays.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, they do. How do you address that? Well, you know, people have loved ones who pass away, and this is the first holiday, Christmas, that they're not going to be there. That's hard. Or, you know, you have a spouse leaves, and you're single, and you're with the kids, and that's hard. And sickness hits the family. So there's so many things that are just a part of life that happen. And hopefully you have a Christmas strong enough, you have a faith strong enough to withhold you. And that's what Christmas does. It's about Christ coming into a broken, dark world where people are suffering and they need a Messiah. They need a Savior. And I'll give you some personal examples for our family this fall. So this fall has been a season of loss for us. In September, I lost my dad. He was 99.9. He was in pretty good shape. He was still driving. They were still in their own home. He fell, broke his hip, and so I lost my dad. Then about a month later, I lost my mom. They were married 77 years, and Again, they were at home, and she passed away. And then I lost my dog. Fourteen years. Our dog, Autumn, who's just been an incredible friend. Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. And we've had family who've been very, very sick. And so this has been such an extraordinary experience. It's a different season for us. But one thing that happens to me every Christmas, Kim, is there's usually one Christmas carol, and sometimes it's a line from one Christmas carol that lodges in my mind. I mean, one year it was, O Holy Night, that phrase, and in his name all oppression shall cease. and I was just overwhelmed by the oppression in the world. Last year it was this beautiful choral piece, O Magnum Mysterium, by Morton Lauderson, talking about the Incarnation. This year it's O Come, O Come, Emmanuel, which is a song I've known and I've heard many times, but it speaks about Come, O come, Emmanuel. Come and save your people. Give them victory over the grave. Death's dark shadow put to flight. We're living in the land of shadows and where we're captive and we're mourning in lonely exile. I mean, that speaks to me this year because I'm sad. I'm grieving. But there's hope for those who are sad and grieving. And the hope is God with us. The hope is, I think it was C.S. Lewis who said, the Son of God became the Son of Man to enable man to become the sons of God. He lifts us up. He saves, and He gives us eternal life and victory over the grave. So that's what carries me in my grief this season, and it's all bound up with the coming of Christ and the message of Christmas.
SPEAKER 10 :
So my father passed on last year on December 1st, and he'd been in failing health. Wow. I have a couple of pictures in my room of my father. He was a man of tremendous faith. He was an old, stubborn German farmer. I love it. But he was a man of tremendous faith. I had peace knowing, I just am sure, that he was with Jesus, who he talked about, had a personal relationship with, loved. He had Bible verses that he would teach us. And I am so grateful for my father. And I know that he is in a much better place now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Well, that hope is a hope that, I mean, it comes from Christ coming and living among us, being with us, his promise to remain with us, his promise to raise us up. So I look, you know, my parents knew the Lord, and they're more alive than ever before. They're in his presence. They're experiencing. I don't know if they experience Christmas, but it's better than Christmas. And isn't this the case, though? Christmas is about his first coming, and the Bible says his second advent is coming. So every Christmas should look forward to what's next. And what's next, according to Scripture, is that Jesus will come again, and he's going to come in glory, and there's going to be a new heaven and a new earth. And there will be people reigning with him in resurrection bodies. I mean, this is a hope. This is how the Bible ends. And it ends with the plea, come, Lord Jesus, come. So that just puts the death of my parents and perhaps your dad in a whole new framework. Like, okay, there is a future. The best is in front of us. And this is a gospel hope that comes from Christ himself. and his saving action on the cross and his promise to come again, and the promise of not just redemption, but a consummation with he's going to complete his plan. The promises of the Bible will come true. So, Dr. Sweet. You got me preaching. I'm part, you know, I'm a chancellor, but I was a pastor for many years. I can't help myself. It's good news, right? It's great news.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and it's so important that people hear that now. And as you were just talking about this, I was thinking about faith and how faith can actually change. give us courage as we live each day in this fallen world. And so the song, Onward Christian Soldiers, that just popped into my brain. And there's a purpose with that thing, getting up every day. And the church that we go to, one of the things that it says is, send me out to do the work that you would have me do, that I would perfectly love you and worthily magnify your holy name. Now, as a human being, I don't hit that. I just don't. But that is what I aspire to. And it gives me courage for us to step forward as Christian soldiers. And so Onward Christian Soldiers just popped into my brain.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, you know, faith has to have a solid foundation, right? Everybody has faith. So if you're listening to this and you go, I don't have faith, you actually do. You have faith. You know, in so many different things, you exercise it. You have faith that the world's going to work, the sun's going to come up, the light's going to go on when you turn the switch on, that there's going to be food at King Soopers and all the rest. But what is the ultimate foundation of the sort of uber faith of your life, the most important faith of your life? Is it your own flesh? Well, good luck, because that's going to fail. Is it the economy? Well, you know, that's going to go up and down, and you're going to take none of it with you when you go.
SPEAKER 10 :
Somebody said, I've never seen a hearse with a U-Haul.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that's right. I mean, we spent Thanksgiving emptying my parents' home of all this stuff, and they left it all behind. It was just a sobering reminder. So what is the faith foundation of your life? And of course, the good news of Christmas is there is a solid foundation, and it's found in God's promise to the world to send a Redeemer, and that Redeemer is Jesus Christ, and He's alive. He's the light of the world. And there are It's not just onward Christian soldiers is a great hymn, but so many of the Christmas carols, they celebrate this faith. Good Christian men rejoice. Christ was born to save. He was. He can. Look to him.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and the word joy has—this last election cycle, I think, was somewhat—they tried to co-opt it. And I want to make sure that we have the proper context of joy. And you think about Christmas hymns, Joy to the World, and just all of these—joy. And joy is— Joy, I think joy is a way of living life. Being happy is, I think, more of an emotion. But joy, I think, is deeper than that, Dr. Sweeting.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that's right. I don't know if you heard the siren in the background. A reminder, we live in an emergency ER world, right? And we need a savior. And that, you know, my favorite, I think one of my favorite Christmas carols is joy to the world. The Lord has come. Let earth receive her king. And it's just filled with lines, you know, no more let sin and sorrows grow, nor thorns infest the ground. He comes to make his blessings flow far as the curse is found. Oh, my goodness. I mean, that's good news.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, that is really good news. And so we're going to continue this discussion with Dr. Donald Sweeting, who is the chancellor of Colorado Christian University, but did want to mention the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo, Colorado, on the beautiful Riverwalk. And it's a very special place, co-founded by Drew Dix, a Medal of Honor recipient for actions he took during the Vietnam War, and Brad Padula, an Emmy Award-winning historian. And they wanted to make sure that we would honor our Medal of Honor recipients, and they do that with these beautiful portraits of valor of over 160 Medal of Honor recipients and their quotes about life. These are ordinary men, right? That when they saw danger, they stepped forward to protect others. And so knowing their stories is so important. I'd really recommend during the Christmas break to take the kids to the Center for American Values because they'll learn a lot. And they focus on these foundational values of America of honor, integrity, and patriotism. So be sure and check out their website. That is AmericanValueCenter.org, AmericanValueCenter.org. And a great sponsor of the show is Karen Levine. She has been in the business of helping people buy and sell their homes for many years, and she is the person you want on your side of the table.
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Again, that's LavacaMeat.com. All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 10 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter and you can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through this lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. and wishing all of you a merry, merry Christmas. And we're pre-recording these shows for Christmas week with special guests, special subjects, and I'm talking with Dr. Donald Sweeting. He's the Chancellor of Colorado Christian University, and we're talking about Christmas. Dr. Sweeting, there's so many traditions around Christmas, some from a society standpoint, some family, personal. What's your thoughts about traditions?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, the traditions are wonderful. They can add a lot of meaning to the holiday, as long as you don't miss the center of what it's all about. And if it's just about your Christmases, your traditions, and, you know, I've got to watch It's a Wonderful Life so many times to get my spirit up or something, you're missing it. So you've got to start at the center and make sure you keep the main thing the main thing, right? And the main thing is the birth and the coming of Christ. And then the other stuff is sort of tinsel on the tree, and it's great. So we have many traditions at Colorado Christian University. At Christmas, we have many family traditions. Kim, I'm sure you have many Christmas traditions, too.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, I do. And one of them is my next-door neighbors. For many, many years, we both have put out luminarias. And for those of you that don't know what those are, it's just basically a brown paper sack with sand in it and a candle. And we light them on Christmas Eve. And they used to live in New Mexico many years ago, so it's a real tradition there. And our understanding is the tradition is it's lighting the way for the Christ child. And so we all go out then and we go across the street and take pictures and look up into the sky. And it's just such a special tradition. And yeah, that's one of mine.
SPEAKER 03 :
We've never done that. I've seen that. And I've got a question for you, because when I see them, I keep thinking, well, aren't the bags going to burn up? How do you keep that from happening?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, you want to make sure I like to get a little bigger bag, but not everybody does. But you want to make sure that you really open it up. And sometimes we'll roll the top of the bag over so it stays open a little bit more. And then you put the sand in. And then I get the pottery barn candles because they last all night. And knock on wood, I've never had a bag in all these years ever catch fire.
SPEAKER 03 :
If I did it, I'm sure we'd have numerous little fires.
SPEAKER 10 :
That siren you heard in the background in the previous segment, huh?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Well, we haven't tried it yet, but I'm afraid to, actually. But we do put up Christmas lights and have Christmas trees and things like that. So I had four children and for many years served as a pastor. And that's interesting when you're trying to celebrate Christmas. It's a commitment. Everything in your life gears up to Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. which means it's really hard to balance family and church. And I was pastor of a fairly large church, Cherry Creek Press, and wonderful church. And we had four Christmas Eve services. So all the normal traditions we had growing up, we had to alter them. Otherwise, we would self-destruct as a family. So here's what we did. So Christmas Eve, we just said, it's church night. We had the kids involved in choirs and services, and we didn't have any family thing because I didn't get home until midnight. And I was kind of wasted. So what we normally did, we used to do, when I grew up, we'd have family special refreshments and maybe exchange a gift or two on Christmas Eve. So we said, okay, we'll have to do that the night before Christmas Eve, which our kids called it Christmas Adam, okay? So Christmas Adam, we had our little family gathering, and we had Christmas Eve, which is church night. Then Christmas morning, I was shot. I wasn't worth much. So we would only have the kids do their stockings, and then we'd go to a grandparent's house for dinner. And that was enough for the day. And then we would open up our gifts on Boxing Day, the day after Christmas. Now, some of you may think that's cruel and unusual punishment to children to do that, but our kids loved it because then they started going, hey, everybody has one day of Christmas. We have four days of Christmas. And the thing is, we still do it. I mean, you know, I'm not serving as a pastor right now. I'm a Colorado Christian. But they still want to do it that way. And it was honestly, it was a survival mechanism so that, you know, we could have meaningful alone time as a family, but also serve really well at the church and celebrate with everybody else. And that's what we did. We called it the four days of Christmas.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, a couple of things. First of all, Boxing Day. We've not talked with any of our guests about Boxing Day for any of the interviews this week. And so Boxing Day is the 26th and Epiphany goes from Christmas to January 6th. And Boxing Day, my understanding was that back in Western Europe, of course, there's the celebrations by the monarchy and the royalty on Christmas Day. And so the servants had to work. On Christmas Day for all that. But then on Boxing Day, the next day, leftovers, some money, a variety of things might be put into boxes to give to the servants because of that. So hence Boxing Day. So that's my understanding of the holiday. Is that the way you understand it?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and you'd box up your gifts, right? It was a British thing, and I'm not even sure all they did. But typically it's December 26th. And so that day, you know, for us ended up being where it's quiet. We're at home. We're not going to anybody's house. We have the whole day to just we open gifts in the morning and just, you know, it's it's the, you know, Christmas Day.
SPEAKER 10 :
So, Dr. Sweeting, this year has been different for me. And I really think that women, moms, it can be a lot of work. Christmas season can be a lot of work with children and the different programs and then get the gifts and get the tree up and do this. It can become a lot of pressure. And I would adhere to that pressure. It's like, ah, I've got to get this up before my friends come over. This year... I've decided Christmas is Christmas Eve when Christ comes. And so I am preparing. I'm recognizing Advent as preparation time. And my goal is to have everything prepared. done by Christmas Eve and it's really taken a lot of pressure off so I've had friends over I've got a women's group that comes over I would have loved to have had my house totally decorated but time just would not allow it and so I decided I'm going to give my myself permission to say I'm going to do my best I'm focused on Christmas Eve and somehow this has been the most relaxing Christmas I've ever had
SPEAKER 03 :
That's wonderful. And I think that's because you had a premeditated plan. And a lot of times I've just stumbled into the holidays and then there are all these parties and there are all these things you've got to do and the kids have their programs and it can drive you, well, it's frenzied. That's a good word, yeah. Have yourself a frenzied little Christmas. That's what it is, right? So here's something you can do that might help. And we had to do this. Because, again, we had family stuff, kids stuff, and church stuff, all the church stuff of the month. So Thanksgiving weekend, Christina and I would actually go out for dinner or just get away, and we'd say, okay, Christmas is coming. We know there's going to be so much. Here are the things that we could be at. We can't do everything. What are we going to do? Let's have a plan, and let's agree on the plan ahead of time. That took a lot of pressure off of us because then we said we don't have to do every party. We don't have to do every tradition. We can emphasize different things, and it just put sanity back into our December.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and again, I want to speak to certainly fathers. But moms, I think that there can be a lot of pressure for moms with little kids. And I just want to encourage you all to give yourself permission to say, if this isn't done, that's okay. Just look at things. Prioritize it. Say, this is something I really want to get done. This can wait. And again... It's been a lot of years for me to finally get to this point, Dr. Sweeting.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah, right, right. And you know what? Especially for those of us who are empty nesters, you can help other people who are in the thick of it with lots of maybe... kids or single parents, you can make a difference in their lives and come alongside of them and that they need help. So I would encourage you to open your eyes, look around at the people. It could be a family member, it could be a neighbor, and that'll add so much richness to your holiday.
SPEAKER 10 :
It really, really will. And any other traditions? Those are pretty important traditions, Dr. Sweeting. Anything else regarding maybe traditions from a societal standpoint?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, man. Well, traditions from – I'm not sure what you mean by societal standpoint.
SPEAKER 10 :
So Christmas trees and shopping and all those things.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Yeah. When we think about gifts, we try to think, okay, we want to give some really meaningful gifts that will be totally appreciated because there's deep need. That could be our own family. It often isn't. It's often extended family or neighbors where you give yourself to other people, and when they receive it, they're just shocked. You know, those are the kind of gifts that really make a difference. And we have so much. We all have so much stuff. And how much stuff do we really need? And there's so much what I call meaningless gift giving that we could stand to do without. But there's a meaningful gift giving that can really lift people and help them keep going. Think about that.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and one other thing as a gift, and I hadn't really thought a lot about this because we've always had Bibles in my house. I remember my paternal grandparents, they had a picture window. And again, old, stubborn Germans. And in that picture window, they actually had a little stand with the family Bible right there. And so it was such a focus. And so I just kind of assumed that everybody has a Bible, but a lot of people don't. And there was one year that I had a friend who was quite ill and he said something along the line, he didn't have a Bible. And so I gave him a Bible. And so even though we're broadcasting this on Christmas, the gift of a Bible for people that don't have one could be a really important gift, Dr. Sweeney.
SPEAKER 03 :
It could be. And hopefully, you know, if we have a Bible, we'll read the Bible. Good point. I mean, you know, some people said it's the most unread book in America. And I often fear that it is. But this is where the good news of Christmas is found, and there's so much more as well. But it could be a Bible. It could be something else. It could be a big basket of fruit and goodies that a family that can't afford much will just be shocked when it comes in the door. It could be you send a check to... a friend or neighbor who's really having hard times. It could be you just help out. You're with somebody if they're very sick or their spouse is very sick and you're just helping them get through. There's so many ways that you can bless them and lift them during the season and way beyond the season, too. It's not confined to Christmas. But Christmas is one of those times where it's a spark for joy kindness and goodness and reaching out in love to others.
SPEAKER 10 :
It definitely is. And we will continue this discussion with Dr. Donald Sweeting, who is the Chancellor of Colorado Christian University. All these discussions happen because of our sponsors. And so for everything mortgages, reach out to Lauren Levy.
SPEAKER 16 :
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SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 16 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is kimmunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. And you can email me at kim at kimmunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we prerecorded these shows for Christmas week with very special guests and just learning so much on a variety of topics. And talking with Dr. Donald Sweeting, he is the chancellor of Colorado Christian University. And Dr. Sweeting, we were talking about traditions in the last segment. What's your favorite Christmas movie?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, my. Okay. Well, I think my all-time favorite that I watch every Christmas week is A Christmas Carol. And there are lots of different versions of A Christmas Carol. I think there are almost ten, probably more, film versions of that. But my favorite is Black and White, Alistair Sim, 1951. It's very British, but that's the one that I've got to watch. I still do. What about you?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, I think mine is a Christmas story about the little kid that wanted that Red Ryder BB gun, and everybody kept telling him that he'd shoot his eye out, and he wanted it. And just the story, and then, of course, what happens with the turkey for the Christmas dinner, so they end up at a Chinese restaurant. Just the humor and the child... You know, the child wanting that gift. I have to watch that every season.
SPEAKER 03 :
That's great. That's great. Well, there are a lot of them, and you can't watch them all, but that's my go-to.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay. So we're broadcasting this on Christmas Day. What about moving forward, reshaping Christmas for each person in the future? Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. So if you're listening to this on Christmas Day, then you realize that Christmas is already here and it's really too late to retool your December. But it's also a good time to just think about not just next year, but how you'll do Christmas differently in the future. And to I guess I would encourage you to recenter it on Jesus so that that's the main thing and everything else. revolves around that. And everything else is extraneous, really. You can cut things out. Nothing is sacred. But Christ is. So keep Christ. So then how do you keep Christ central in Christmas? Here's some things you can do. Number one, if you want to put Christ back into your Christmas, put Advent back into your December. Advent is a season of preparation. Many churches will emphasize it. There are four Sundays. You have an Advent wreath. You can do readings. You light a candle for each Sunday of Advent. And Advent is a season of spiritual preparation, too, to just prepare your heart and make Him room. So start with Advent. And that begins right after Thanksgiving. Then secondly, make sure you have time to worship the Lord in December, that you go to church. Christmas Eve, if your church has a service Christmas Day, the Sundays of Advent, that will usually help you get re-centered because pastors are always, they're preparing series of messages that will focus on Christmas. Another thing you can do is have a creche at home, a nativity set. And one of the things we do in our family is before we open gifts, our Christmas gifts, is we go to the nativity set. We have an olive wood set from Bethlehem. And we put Jesus in the manger because he hasn't been there. And we read the Christmas story and just give thanks and we pray. And then we go to the tree and we open gifts. So have a nativity set or a creche. Read a book on the grand miracle of the Incarnation. There are many books. There are some really good devotional books. There are also a lot of fluffy ones that aren't worth your time. We're reading a book by Sinclair Ferguson called The Dawn of Redeeming Grace, and it's great. That's our book for this year. Take in some of the great Christmas music concerts. I'm listing past churches. Colorado Christian University, we put on a fantastic Christmas concert early in December with our students, but there are so many. Rethink gifts. so that you're giving gifts that really do make a difference. And get behind some of the traditions. Think with your family. Why do we give gifts? Because God gave a gift. Why do we have lights? Because Christ is the light of the world. Why do we think of the poor? Because Christ was born in a manger. Why do we do music? So there are lots of things you can do to re-center, re-focus your Christmas on Christ and And plan early. Think it through ahead of time, not just in the moment.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, I think that that's really good advice. And at this time, 2024, America, as we're looking into the future, more than ever, I think that we need to recognize that the Christian values, that Christ came to earth because he cared about each and every individual. I think matches up with the American idea beautifully, where we realize the importance of the individual, that the Declaration says that we are endowed by our Creator with these rights of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. I think that those two things match up really beautifully, and that is the individual. And so each and every one of you is so important i say it on the show all the time you're each treasured and you're valued and you're unique and um and god is you are made exactly the way god wanted it wanted to make you and so never question that uh so i think that's kind of my final thought on all this what's the final thought that you'd like to leave with our listeners uh well just think of the world if christ had never been born you know think of all that the world would have missed um
SPEAKER 03 :
and the gifts that he gave to the world, including the gift of dignity and lifting children and women and the elderly and the slave, and the impulse of education and the impact he had on health care and the arts and everything else, and the impact... The Christian faith had on the founding of our country, as you were just saying, Kim, extraordinary. The pilgrims wouldn't have come. A lot of the people wouldn't have. Columbus wouldn't have sailed. So many wouldn't have come if they weren't motivated in some way by Christ. It's not to say they were perfect or they didn't make mistakes, but Jesus Christ had extraordinary influence on our world. He still does. And so, you know, Have fun at Christmas, but make sure you got the center right. And it is about Jesus.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, absolutely. And then just I think one last question. We have just a couple of minutes because you work with so many young people at Colorado Christian University. And they're so bombarded with all these different messages and public education. What would you say to the young people of America right now?
SPEAKER 03 :
I would say, first of all, build your life on a solid foundation. Jesus said, the wise man builds his house upon the rock. The foolish man builds his house upon the sand. What's going to last? And, of course, the rock, as the New Testament puts it, is Jesus Christ, a solid rock to build your life upon. He will give you a new identity. He'll forgive your sins. He'll bring light and life into your life. For many of you, he can help you build your life and your future on a whole new foundation. And the other thing I would say is if you sense you're supposed to go to college, go to a college that actually believes in something solid. They believe there's a God. They believe there's truth. They believe in the humanities. They believe in the liberal arts. They're not ashamed of Jesus Christ. And I wish there were many colleges that were that way, but there are some, and Colorado Christian University is certainly one of them. So consider a college like CCU, and we'll help you build upon that foundation.
SPEAKER 10 :
And again, Dr. Donald Sweeting, who is the chancellor of Colorado Christian University, thank you so much for these important insights and conversation. And I wish you and yours a very happy Christmas season here and a very prosperous 2025.
SPEAKER 03 :
Merry Christmas, everybody.
SPEAKER 10 :
And our quote for the end of the show is from Luke, the Gospel of Luke 2.10. Do not be afraid, the angel said. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. So, my friends, today be grateful. Read great books. Think good thoughts. Listen to beautiful music. Communicate and listen well. Live honestly and authentically. Strive for high ideals. And like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you. God bless America. Stay tuned for our number two.
SPEAKER 11 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 04 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
Indeed, let's have a conversation. And welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You're each treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today's drive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this time in history. And thank you to the team, Producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. I'm blessed to work with a lot of amazing people. Check out the website. That is Kim Munson. That's M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com. Thank you to all of you who support us. And you can hear the show 6 to 8 a.m. Monday through Friday. And that's on all KLZ 560 platforms. KLZ 560 a.m. KLZ 100.7 FM 560. the KLZ website and the KLZ app. And then we post the show summary with the podcast the next day. And once that podcast is posted, you can listen to that on all the streaming services such as iTunes and Spotify. The first hour is rebroadcast on all KLZ platforms, one to two in the afternoon, the second hour, 10 to 11 at night. And Merry Christmas to all of you. Hope you're having a wonderful holiday. And we are pre-recording the shows for this week. And Wednesdays are our Trent Luce Wednesdays. And Trent Luce, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thanks, Kim. Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 10 :
Merry Christmas. So I think we've talked about it before, but tell me, what is some of the Luce household traditions?
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, we have talked about it before and the traditions seem to morph. We had a very good set of traditions when all the girls are here. Now the girls are gone and they come back or they don't come back. We got two of the three coming back. But I actually wrote my column about this. And can I start with the Bible verse on Christmas?
SPEAKER 10 :
Please do.
SPEAKER 06 :
1 John 2, verse 15 and 16. That message to me is that Christmas, my friend, Pastor Jeff Weiss, who's co-host swinging a prayer every Sunday with me has got me in the frame of the frame of mind of saying Christmas instead of Christmas because we have worked so hard at taking Christ out of Christmas I had on another broadcast this week Julie Scott who joins me from Fairfax Halifax excuse me Halifax Nova Scotia from time to time and she said it's really gotten extreme in Canada and that you cannot say Merry Christmas. It's not illegal, but you will get chastised severely. And I just think that this Christmas 2024 is a great time to remind everybody that it's about Christmas. And we have the commercial aspect that this isn't a new thing and a reason for the season. But the truth of the matter is, I think it's really important to right now talk about Jesus, our Lord and Savior. Particularly on Christmas.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, you know, particularly at this time, I think so. And from that Bible verse, 1 John 2, 15 through 16, I think that we have gotten our focus onto so many things of this world. And I think so many people... feel empty with that. They say there's got to be something more, and that something more is Christmas, where God came as a baby and a human to redeem humankind. And I'll tell you, as I walk along and see all these different people, all different colors and all different weights and all different heights, and it just is so... unbelievable to me that Christ came to earth because he wants a personal relationship with each and every human being on this earth. It's almost more than I can wrap my brain around, but it is so amazing.
SPEAKER 06 :
It truly is amazing. And I remember as a kid, in Sunday school, because I grew up in church and mom and dad made me go to church. And if I didn't behave in church, I sat on a chair for the equal amount of time when I got home from church. And, you know, that doesn't happen anymore. You don't even get young families in church because we're playing ball games. I'm not opposed to ball games. But and I've got a whole new level of thought about the church itself. And the church should not be confused with Jesus. and everything you just said in your walk with Jesus. But, you know, as a kid, we learned in Sunday school that Christians are going to be under attack, and there will come a day when people will deny that you're even a Christian. And I can remember as a kid, like, no way, that would never happen. Everybody's a Christian, right? That attack is up close and personal right now. When you can't say Merry Christmas without getting chastised, that attack is incrementally coming to you.
SPEAKER 10 :
But that is why I think Merry Christmas is, let's do it. And so I have been wishing people a Merry Christmas and I've been getting Merry Christmas back as well. But I wanna, so I get your church experience. So I, as a child, we always went to church as well. And my mother tells this story, I think this was Easter. And for some reason I was wearing white gloves and I was in the children's choir which was up behind the choir loft, was right behind the pulpit. And apparently I thought it was a good idea to be talking. I'm sure you can't imagine that, that I'd be talking to my neighbors during the sermon.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, that's hard to imagine.
SPEAKER 10 :
But I decided that, of course, I would do that so nobody would notice. So I did that behind my hand. My mother said it was like sending messages all day throughout the sermon as I was moving my white hand to talk with my neighbors. She was so embarrassed.
SPEAKER 06 :
I know. Did you sit on a chair when you got home, Kim?
SPEAKER 10 :
I did. I did get chastised a bit, though. So anyway, I remember that story as a kid. One more Trent Luce Church story before we go to break.
SPEAKER 06 :
One more?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. Do you have another one? Or is just sitting on the chair enough?
SPEAKER 06 :
No, sitting on the chair was just it. I mean, it was like motivation to be still and pay attention or pretend I was paying attention. Absolutely. Absolutely. But the other thing that's happening in today's world, which I'm just perplexed by, and I'm talking about in our world, where I go to so many meetings on a given week. And it all started for me, actually, in Albuquerque, when we were doing the Faith, Family, and Freedom Tour. I asked, this was 37 states in 57 days. We had events. We were celebrating freedom. And I would always start those events with a prayer. And I would ask someone locally, or I would do it myself, ask a blessing. And when we did this meeting in Albuquerque, the guy asked me, he said, is it okay if I do it in Jesus' name? And I looked at him and I said, what kind of a prayer would you do if it wasn't in Jesus' name? And he said, well, in New Mexico, that's frowned upon. And it's not illegal, but you can get in trouble. I'm like, really? Really? And now in today's world, Kim, I have people who are reluctant to start our meetings, no matter how big or small they are, with a prayer because they're afraid they might offend somebody. Doesn't the word in Jesus' whole plan to come to earth tell us to don't be offended by what people think? Display your faith openly.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and this is censorship. It is not so subtle, but it may be a subtle way of taking away our freedom of speech. And so it's a very important little subtle battle that we have going on during this Christmas season. So we're going to continue the discussion with Trent Luce, and we wish you all a Merry Christmas. We are pre-recording this, and we are promoting Doyle Glass's book, A Swift Sword During December. And it is a really important piece of history. And we are pre-recording our shows for this Christmas week. And so very pleased to be talking with Lorne Levy, who has been a sponsor of the show for just about since day one, since it's been the Kim Munson Show. And Lorne, we're going to be starting our seventh year solo. And a big part of that is you and your partnership and your sponsorship. And I really appreciate that.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, thank you. I've been glad to help any way I can, and it's been a good mutual relationship, and it's been good to do my little part in helping the message get out that you're representing.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and let's talk a little bit about your business, then we'll talk about this Christmas, Hanukkah season. But you've been able to help people with first mortgages, second mortgages, and reverse mortgages, and through all different kinds of interest rate environments. And you realize, I think that people need to understand that there is flexibility as these rates move around. And I'd asked you the question a few weeks ago about... is there a penalty if you prepay or refinance, I guess? And you said that's gone away. I remember in the old days that did happen.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, there were a lot of loans that were, especially if there were these tricky arm loans that were what was called subprime that a lot of people blamed for bringing down the 08 crash. They had, you know, you'd get in a two-year arm with a two-year prepay, so you couldn't get out of it. It was just so cost prohibitive. There's been other loans like that along the way, but for the most part, those types of prepaid penalties have been banned through legislation, and so they don't have them anymore. So, yeah, people can refinance as long as it makes financial sense and the costs are not prohibited. People can refinance every six months if they want to. You can't just do it for the sake of doing it. It has to be worthwhile to save enough money, but they can do it.
SPEAKER 10 :
So what would make it worthwhile? Quarter percent? Half percent?
SPEAKER 14 :
I get that question a lot because there's a lot of people that I call old school. And the old school theory is that if you can't lower your rate by at least 1%, it's not worth doing it. But I think that comes from a theory of when homes were, you know, our parents were buying homes for $40,000 or, you know, not in today's world. You know, I had a client for a number of years that had a million dollar home. So his loan was like $800,000. And he would say, every time I can save a quarter point, you call me. Let's get started. Because a quarter point on an $800,000 loan was saving him $350, $400 a month. Wow. Which is real money. That's real money, yeah. That's real money. And that was only for a quarter point. So everyone's answer is different. It's what do you think is worth it. And I tell people, if I was to come to your house and knock on your door, Kim, and say, hey, I'm here to hand you $200. Would you send me away, or would you take the $200? And that's really what it is. It's just a matter of getting your pay stubs and your W-2s together and refinance, and someone might hand you $200 a month that you were paying to a bank.
SPEAKER 10 :
That's real money.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah. That's real money. It's your money to do anything else you'd want to do with it, start a Roth IRA with it.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 14 :
And let it grow for 100 years, you know?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what's the best way for people to reach you?
SPEAKER 14 :
The best way is always just call 303-880-8881. Okay.
SPEAKER 10 :
And we've got a couple of minutes left. And just your reflections on this Christmas, Hanukkah season.
SPEAKER 14 :
My reflection gets different as we've known each other because as a parent, I just love when the kids come home. My son has recently come home from college and I get to spend time until they have to go back. And when you're younger and you're just in the rat race and your kids are little, they're always around. And so it's a difference. And now when you get older... And you get family and friends together. It means a lot more when you see these 20-somethings that are all friends. We have a good group of friends as adults, and our kids are all best buddies. And to have them home and doing karaoke nights and whatever they're doing with their girlfriends and boyfriends and all be together, it's awesome. So it's a fun time of year, and that's what I like most about it.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. Getting together with family. That's for sure. One other quick question. You grew up in Boston. You're a Boston kid. And there's a lot of history around Christmas in New England and with the Battle of Trenton, the Battle of Princeton. A lot of stuff was happening in Boston.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah. You and I have talked about that a lot where when you live there and you see the history, you kind of get second fiddle to it. You know, it's like, ah, I've done that. I've seen that. And then now when I fly home to visit family and friends, it's like, whoa, there's so much that happened here. Everything's so old in the history of it. And, you know, we just don't have that necessarily here. We don't have buildings built in the, you know, 1800s. And it's pretty crazy to see when you go back there. But there's a lot of history from just about everything back there.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. Well, Lauren, I wish you and your family a very Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Really prosperous 2025. And I really appreciate you.
SPEAKER 14 :
My pleasure. Thank you.
SPEAKER 09 :
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SPEAKER 12 :
You'd like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can't remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim's website, kimmunson.com. That's Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 10 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We are an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we do thank Laramie Energy for their gold sponsorship of the show. It is reliable, efficient, affordable energy sources from oil, gas, natural gas, and coal that powers our lives and fuels our hopes and dreams. That whole industry is under regulatory and legislative attack. And so that's why we need to engage in the battle of ideas so that people understand that these things allow us to adjust our own personal climate. And that is being warm in the winter and cool in the summer. And also another sponsor of the show is Hooters Restaurants. And it's an important story how I got to know them. It was when I was on city council. And it's a story about freedom and free markets and capitalism and PBIs, politicians, bureaucrats, and interested parties that are wanting to control capitalism. Every aspect of our life. And you can find that story at my website. But Hooters Restaurants has five locations. Loveland, Aurora, Lone Tree, Westminster, and Colorado Springs. Great place to get together with friends to watch the games. They have great specials for happy hour. It is Wednesday. We are pre-recording these shows for this week with great guests. And, of course, Trent Luce is a regular on Wednesdays. And it is Christmas Day. Wishing you all a Merry Christmas. Trent Luce, sixth-generation farmer and rancher. You're always shedding light on this attack on the people that feed and fuel us, and they're trying to take our freedom. And one of the ways they do that is self-censorship. When we censor ourselves because we are concerned, if we say Merry Christmas, that is actually an infringement upon our freedoms.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, that's important, Kim. But I'm getting these notifications from Skype on my computer. Do you know how to turn those off?
SPEAKER 10 :
I bet that Joe probably does. I don't.
SPEAKER 06 :
Why are these notifications always showing up on my computer? Turn those things off.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. I don't know. You're talking to an old dinosaur, so I don't know the answer to that.
SPEAKER 06 :
I want to be an old dinosaur, too.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, producer Joe is keeping me young.
SPEAKER 06 :
There you go. See, somebody's got to keep you young. And before we talk about self-censorship, we need to schedule a happy hour appearance when I come to town for the National Western.
SPEAKER 10 :
Happy hour for what, on one of the Trent Luce shows?
SPEAKER 06 :
No, no, we don't need to broadcast it. You were promoting go to Happy Hour Hooters. I said we could do that.
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, let's do that. Absolutely. I'm a little slow. Yeah, let's do that. That'll be fun. And in fact, you know what we should do?
SPEAKER 06 :
I can do a broadcast from there.
SPEAKER 10 :
You know what we should do is invite all the listeners so that they can come and meet you. Let's make that happen.
SPEAKER 06 :
Meet us?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah. Meet us. Okay. We'll make that happen.
SPEAKER 06 :
This is my arm. All right, you set it up.
SPEAKER 10 :
I'll set it up. Let me make a note here, Trent. Okay, I have to make notes now because I don't think it's because I'm forgetting things. Maybe it is. I think it's because there's so many things going on in my brain. Okay, self-censorship. When people are afraid to say Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 06 :
I'm going to reference my dear friend, Pastor Jeff Weiss, who once again co-hosts Winging a Prayer with me every Sunday. and he wrote a book called Free Indeed. You should get Jeff on as a guest. He would be a great guest for you, Kim. But he wrote a book called Free Indeed. And if you truly understand the biblical sense of freedom and being free indeed, you are not refrained in any way, shape, or form of censoring yourself. But you're absolutely right. The Bible is all about it, and Jesus' coming to earth and his resurrection His birth through his crucifixion is all about living without having fear. And you have to be free indeed in the fearing God only. And it just perplexes me. Go back and think about the people you know and people who you thought were really walking in the path of the Lord and how they were living in fear during COVID. Yeah. How do you do that? I just don't understand that. And that whole thing was a test on self-censorship.
SPEAKER 10 :
I really I agree with that. And as I look back at that, though, it was it was it took an act of courage to walk into the grocery store without a mask on. And it was it was it's surreal as I think back about that. Of course, in I think in rural America, they're like, no, we're not doing that. But man, in the urban areas, it was crazy. And you were afraid that there was going to be the mask police that was going to try to embarrass you. So I ended up I'm sure you're not surprised. I hardly ever wore a mask. But if I was someplace where I absolutely had to be there and had to have a mask, somebody gave me one that was transparent, kind of that transparent netting. And so if they say, you know, put on your mask, I put that on, which was clear that, you know, I could breathe and all kinds of things being being the rebel that I'm on. But it was just it was this test to see how far they could push our fear to comply. Mm hmm.
SPEAKER 06 :
I'll never forget the first week of May that year. So this would have been 2021, right? No, 2020. May 2020 was a bad year. And I had to make a pig delivery to Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Florida, and Kentucky. So Landry, because she was in school online... went with me. And so we made a 1700 mile journey that week. And it was the most interesting sociology project you could have ever had. And I'll never forget the one place that just really set me back was, you know, I wear a wild rag all the time. I mean, it doesn't matter what's going on. I'm summer, winter, I'm wearing a wild rag. And I walk into a gas station. And for those who don't know, I'm usually wearing a black cowboy hat at the same time. I walk in this gas station in Pennsylvania. There was a sign on the door that said mask required. Clearly, I'm like 10 months. I'm like, if Kim doesn't wear a mask, I'm not going to wear a mask. And this kid who, I don't know, he's probably 25 years old, working behind the desk. You would have thought I walked in there as a robber. He just went, he just started, his eyes got big. He was like, oh my God, you got to get a mask. You got to get a mask. So I simply took the rag that I wear around my neck. I pulled it up over my nose. I looked like an authentic robber. And a degree of comfort just came over him like, oh, okay. And I'm like, how weird is this? I walk in here looking like a bank robber, and they feel comfortable. I walk in with an open face, and they're scared to death.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay, I've got a story for you. So I'm going to tell you this. Let me make a note so I don't forget when we come back. And all these stories, all this comes to you because of our sponsors. And for a great protein source for your diet and that steakhouse experience at home, check out Lavaca Meat Company.
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SPEAKER 13 :
All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 10 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter and email me at Kim at KimMunson.com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And check out the Center for American Values. I'd say put the family in the car. And go to Pueblo, make a day trip of it, visit the Center for American Values. It will inspire your children. And hopefully, as you look at the portraits of each of these Medal of Honor recipients that did something to save others on the battlefield, when they were on the battlefield. It's so important. And have these conversations with your kids about these heroic actions by everyday people when the situation presented itself. So get more information. You can go to AmericanValueCenter.org. You can visit the center. There's great restaurants there on the Riverwalk. And Pueblo is known as the home of heroes. And we are pre-recording for this week of Christmas, and we're wishing you a very Merry Christmas today. Talking with Trent Luce, sixth-generation farmer and rancher, and we were talking about fear and this whole experiment of COVID and standing up against that. So, Trent, I don't think I've told you this story. I was in San Diego during COVID, you know, some of those first few months. with the fam, and we were going to go to a restaurant, and I knew I was not going to wear a mask into the restaurant. This is California. And so I thought, I'll let the whole family go ahead and go in before me, because if they kick somebody out, I just want them to kick me out, not everybody. And so I waited until they got into the restaurant, and then I walked in without my mask, and I sat down. Looking around now, there were people at other tables that were didn't have a mask on. So you could take your mask off when you sat down, but you had to have it on when you walked in. And I'm thinking this is a bunch of bull dashery, you know, and so anyway, the the waiter comes over. No, the manager came over and said to me, I see that you came in without a mask. And I said, yes. And he said, well, I'm going to have to ask you to leave. And I said, well, I'll leave. Please let them – they're all hungry. Let them go ahead and eat. But I said, I understand. But I said, I just want you to understand that this whole thing is about freedom. And he said, okay. He said, well, I'll let you stay. Okay. but I'll have to see if our waiter feels safe waiting on you. I'm thinking, oh, my gosh. So he's waiting on tables, other people without masks on, but they have to. So he comes over. The waiter was as nice as anything. In the meantime, my daughter leans over to me and says, I hope that you are prepared to tip like a Rockefeller today. I said, I am. And so anyway, we ended up having a very nice time, great waiter, great food, and left. And I did leave a very healthy tip. And then my son had gone back to that restaurant a few weeks later, and the waiter recognized him, and he was all over himself trying to wait on my son. But it was an act of courage. It's so goofy to say it, just to say... I'm not doing it. But it was a big deal, and it was an act of courage, and a lot of people stepped forward. I don't think they're going to pull the wool over most of our eyes this time around. I hope not, Trent Luce.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, I disagree with you. I think a majority of the people will still comply. And it's coming hard and fast. It looks like it's coming in the name of avian influenza. Oh, yes. But as a side note, there's something that you said there that I also found very interesting during that time. And my most dark experience with that was on a plane, because on a plane, if you didn't have your mask on, unless you're drinking or eating, then you had to be covered up. And if you weren't covered up, they removed you. And I had an attendant, a flight attendant who got belligerent with me. I just would like put it up over my chin so to pretend that I had it on. I didn't have it on. She came chatting back there and she said, sir, I will have the pilots stop this plane and we will unload you. And like, you're going to do that? No, you're not going to do that. But she could. If you do not cover your face properly. And so what I bring that up for is that there were so many people not only compliant, there were so many people that felt like they had to be the protector of everybody.
SPEAKER 08 :
I know.
SPEAKER 06 :
And they were just like little militant Hitlers running around telling you what you had and couldn't do. And the only I mean, the only two times I wore a mask during that episode. was I ultimately did on that plane, which, interestingly enough, I remember clearly I was flying to Georgia to do a freedom festival with Devin Nunes, who obviously is in the news this week. But we were going to a freedom festival where I had no freedom whatsoever on the plane. And the other place is in the fall of this year when kids got back into school. The schools would not permit you in the building without wearing a mask. And that was the only time I was compliant because I wasn't going to miss my daughter's events, and I just did not take a stand. And I often think looking back if I really screwed up in that regard.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, I know. It was such a crazy time. But it's why we have to stand for freedom. And that's why in the Bible, I'm told that it's said many, many times in the Bible, do not fear. Isn't that one of the first things that the angels said to the shepherds? Do not fear. It is. And so we need to take heed of that, Trent Luce.
SPEAKER 06 :
And you know what else I found interesting, tying it back to Jesus and ministering, is that just within the last six months, I noticed that there's an attack in China. Probably there's always an attack in China on Christianity. But one way that Christian churches can remain open in China, and I'm not talking COVID, I'm talking about just freedom of religion. is if they make their sermons and their church services available on the internet so that they can be monitored. Do you know how that hit me? That hit me so hard and fast because churches, for the most part, except for the megachurches, were not broadcasting sermons. But because of COVID, we moved into this era of, of now all church services are are available on the internet so we voluntarily did what china is forcing christians to do in china i just find that fascinating that is fascinating i know there are people that have liked that convenience of that um
SPEAKER 10 :
if we got to a point where we had real censorship of Christian churches, you can well imagine that those things that have been broadcast will be used against the churches in the future.
SPEAKER 06 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Absolutely. Because they also, I mean, look, every day somebody is being convicted in court based upon something they say. I have a friend who spent three years in federal penitentiary because of something he said on a Facebook direct message. It's being monitored left and right.
SPEAKER 10 :
Three years. Correct. Wow. Well, we must not fear. We must speak the truth. That's what you do basically 365 days a year, and that's what I'm doing as well because I believe that we engage in this battle of ideas. Christ did not use weapons at all. He used words and ideas, and I think that those are so important. It's attributed to Stalin, who he said, and I don't know for sure if he said it, but it's still effective. He said, ideas are more powerful than guns. We wouldn't let our enemies have guns, so why would we let them have ideas? And that's why what you're doing and what I'm doing is so important, Trent Luce.
SPEAKER 06 :
I agree 100%. And in fact, I gave you kudos on the air this week in one of my other broadcasts, because I said that, you know, for the most – I'll tell you what it was about. I looked at the number of people who are leaving or going to a state, and the migration is quite fascinating. And what they do is they check with the movers. And Colorado is seeing more people leave by about 5% than people moving into Colorado. And there's a lot of people who think Colorado is just lost and gone. And I said, you might think that, but when you have somebody like Kim Munson – who every day on KLZ is bringing the conservative thought process to the forefront. There are people showing up and standing up that previously thought they were by themselves and they couldn't do it because they just didn't have the comfort, and now it's happening thanks to what you're doing.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, thank you. I feel that this is what God wants me to do, is to engage in this battle of ideas here in Colorado. Words are so important. And we've seen the demonizing of words. You mentioned conservative. And the word conservative, as in politics, has been demonized. And I think we need to reclaim that. Conservative, what does that mean? And those that have tried to demonize the word have said that conservatives want to control how you live your life and what you do. Well, we go through COVID and we realized who it was. No, it was the extreme radicals. And the conservative, what that means is to conserve and preserve these principles that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. And it's been attributed to, well, I'm sure he said it, Calvin Coolidge. He said, if all men are created equal, then that is final. So none of this reparation stuff, none of this dividing stuff, that's the ideal that we need to be working towards, Trent Luce.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll give you the greatest example, sad example, of a word being hijacked. And conservative is another good example. But I come from the world of agriculture. And my family, I can take you to the barn that my family started farming out of in 1839. Well, they didn't build the barn until 1889, but they started farming the land in 1839. It's still being farmed today, and that is sustainability. It is sustainable that you can be six generations in the same family taking care of the same land. And yet today, most farmers and ranchers are afraid to use the term sustainability because it's been hijacked by the green weenies.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yes, and sustainability is actually whenever you see that in construction or within any industry environment, sustainability has actually become a code word for a communist agenda. And that's some of the things we've talked about on a Climate Conversation podcast with some of these experts and scientists that I know that seems very strong, but they're using the word sustainability to push forward, control communist principles at Trent Luce.
SPEAKER 06 :
I agree. And we cannot allow these words to be hijacked.
SPEAKER 10 :
No, not at all. And so let's go to break. And there's a few other things that I'd like to talk about that we've let these things be hijacked. We need to reclaim them. And we have these important discussions because we have great sponsors. And one of those is both John Boson with Boson Law.
SPEAKER 16 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 16 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter and you can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. And throughout December, the USMC Memorial Foundation, if you buy a brick to honor your military service or your loved one's military service, there is someone that is matching the purchase of that brick. So it'll be like double the money. And so get that done before the end of the year. You can do that by going to USMCMemorialFoundation.org. That is USMCMemorialFoundation.org. And we are pre-recording these shows for Christmas week. It is Christmas Day. And we wish all of you a very Merry Christmas. And we have Trent Luce on the line. You know him. He is a sixth generation farmer and rancher. And we were talking about words that have been redefined, co-opted by the left. Conservative is one of those. But a symbol that has really been co-opted by the left is rainbow. And here, all these little girls love rainbows. And so you can see co-opting that, I think, is a real—it's a not-so-subtle problem, but it is a subtle problem. What's your thoughts about co-opting the rainbow, Trent Luce?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, you remember when I had my man march, the very first one. We didn't do it as much on this one this year. But the first one, which was in October of 2022— we had our man march and I coined it taking the rainbow back because the rainbow was God's symbol to us that he would not flood the earth again as he did when Noah had to build an ark. And now people hear or see a rainbow and they think of something that is completely opposite of the biblical view of the rainbow. And so I think it's a great, great analogy. And one of those words that We need to bring the rainbow back. We're going to take it back.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, we need to, instead of acquiescing, we need to be reclaiming these words. And there's so many different words out there. What's another one we should talk about?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I want to talk about my favorite one because it's, well, it's not my favorite one, but if it's in the same vein of that in itself, then that is gay. You know, Jesus actually talked about being gayful and living our life happily. Well, the homosexual community hijacked that word. Homosexuality, the term would never be accepted by mainstream anything. But if you're gay, you are. And so I think that it falls right in line with the rainbow. But that's another word that's been hijacked.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, and how about a recent one? And that is by the O'Biden-Harris-Walls team, and that is joy. I love the word joy, but my, they have tainted that word right now, so we need to reclaim the word joy as well.
SPEAKER 06 :
Seems like we've got a lot of reclaiming to do. We better get in charge of the Department of Reclamation.
SPEAKER 10 :
That is true. Speaking of departments, what's your thoughts about DOGE? And that is Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy. I'm thinking what we need to do is start a DOGE Department of Government Efficiency Colorado. So DOGE Colorado, and then we should start DOGE for each of our counties and each of our municipalities. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER 06 :
I have zero faith in government, making government smaller. And to go about getting rid of bureaucracies, we create a new bureaucracy, that sounds just a little too extreme for me.
SPEAKER 10 :
But OK, so but Doge Colorado would be from we the people. And I think one of the first things we need to demand is no more government grants and loans, starting with grants. If we would stop all of these these grants, you can start with DEI, all of these things that are pushing agendas with our government. either our tax money or borrowing it from our kids, I think that's a place to start because I really think that we are going to see a double down, Trent Luce, at the municipal, the county, and the state levels on the extreme agenda because at this particular point in time, they feel that they might be thwarted a little bit with the Trump agenda. And so I think you're going to see the whole agenda, the 30 by 30 and all that. I think we're going to see double down on that at the municipal, county, and state level.
SPEAKER 06 :
Can I forward half of my calls to you? Because what you said is exactly what has happened in the last two weeks. So where I was getting one or two calls a day, I'm now getting four to five calls a day where somebody is dealing with a situation where they're accelerating this 30 by 30 agenda. or some other World Economic Forum plan to come in and erode our local control aspects. But with all of that said, I have developed this tremendous friend in New South Wales, Australia. Councillor Ingrid started watching Across the Pond, the TV program, and I was talking every day about local control, local control. She joined her local council, which is equivalent to our county commission, And they are now making an entire change in the Reconnect Rivers project where they were trying to deem land that is not even wetland as a wetland area and putting off limits to people. And it's just a testament to what you just said about Doge, Colorado. We need to do all of these things at the local level and bring them up from the grassroots.
SPEAKER 10 :
And we can do that. That's how this country was founded. It was everyday people. For example, Henry Knox, who got the cannons from Fort Ticonderoga, got them down to Boston. And what an affair that was to make that happen. But I think he was a bookseller in Boston. Yes. Here you have everyday people stepping up from the ground up, and they were able to stand up against the most powerful empire in the world. And they were able to... to prevail. And the reason is, is because they had their priorities and their values in the right place. And that was this vision that all men are created equal by God and these liberties from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. And if we get ourselves in the right spot again, I think that we can reclaim our country.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Notice that those founding fathers said all men are created equal. And I don't know who screwed that up in Wyoming. Probably was Wyatt in Wyoming gave women the right to vote in 1921. We had it going good till then.
SPEAKER 10 :
You're not the first person that has said to me that once women got the right to vote, that that's where we were headed towards progressivism. So that's why I talk with my sisters on a regular basis about these principles. And when they say that all men are created equal, they don't mean men. They mean humankind. And that was something that I learned in my classical liberal education, public education when I was a kid. That was in the old days where you really learned how to read and write and do arithmetic in the public schools.
SPEAKER 06 :
You keep telling yourself, Kim, that it wasn't women that screwed it up. Maybe you'll get somebody to believe you.
SPEAKER 10 :
It's always a woman, isn't it, Trent? It's always a woman.
SPEAKER 06 :
It is always a woman. No doubt about it. Well, hey, want to talk about Eve? Let's go to the Bible.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, well, talk about personal responsibility. Adam said, oh, she made me do it. So let's talk a little bit about personal responsibility by the man.
SPEAKER 06 :
Women always hold the veto power.
SPEAKER 10 :
That's true. That's true. So, OK, well, I never know where this conversation is going to go. So let's get back to Christmas. And because of Adam and Eve, we needed a savior. And that Savior came to earth. I just got to think about just think about the night he was born. And again, the angels to the shepherds do not fear and what the skies look like that night. I can't even imagine what it was like that night. It had to be amazing.
SPEAKER 06 :
Do you keep track of the North Star on a daily basis?
SPEAKER 10 :
Not really.
SPEAKER 06 :
I do. I taught our three daughters the North Star all the time. And I think the North Star is something that wasn't just about the night Jesus was born, which, by the way, was apparently in September, not in December. And I've had many interesting discussions this week about whether that matters or not.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, but Bill Federer, I'll tell you, Bill Federer has actually gone through the calendar and he makes a case that it really was Christmas Eve.
SPEAKER 06 :
Who's done that?
SPEAKER 10 :
Bill Federer with the American Minute.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh. Oh. I would like to see that.
SPEAKER 10 :
Okay. And we're broadcasting that. Let's see. I think we broadcast that pre-recorded. We broadcast that yesterday on Christmas Eve.
SPEAKER 06 :
Fantastic. OK, now I'm going to have to go back and catch it because I missed it.
SPEAKER 10 :
This is weird. We're pre-recording. I know it's a little it's a little crazy. So, yeah, he was able to actually go through and biblically. That's easy. biblically make the case that this is the correct date for Christ's birth. So now we only have just a few seconds left before we get to our close. So anything else you want to do to wrap this up?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, the close is going to be probably longer than you want it to be. Because I had, I've been trying to track this guy down for about six months. He's been busy jet-setting around the United States. His name is Papa Jake. Jake Larson lives in Martinez, California. He was, on Friday, December 20th, last Friday, he was 102 years old. He planned, he was in on, he wasn't the planner, but he was in on the planning of D-Day. He came out of D-Day without a scratch on his body. He is of such amazing sound mind and walked me back. And I just finished a three-day series with him. I got to tell you this, Kim, I said, Papa Jake, I need you for 20 minutes. Can you give me 20 minutes? He said, oh, just get it going. Let's go.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, wow.
SPEAKER 06 :
65 minutes later, I said, Papa Jake, I got to go. I can't keep doing this. But he gave me the quote. And you can attribute this to the World War II veteran. You can attribute this to the veteran. Or you can attribute this to Jesus. He said, Trent, they gave their lives so we could live ours.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yes, that is true. So, Trent Luce, that is perfect. I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas, and we will talk to you next week.
SPEAKER 06 :
Can't wait. Thanks, Kim.
SPEAKER 10 :
And my friends today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 07 :
If I don't survive, I will fall.
SPEAKER 11 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
Join Kim Munson and guest Bill Fetter on an enlightening journey through the intricacies of the Christian liturgical calendar. In this episode, Bill Fetter, founder of The American Minute, brings to light the historical context of how the date for Christmas was determined, debunking common myths and misconceptions. Engage in a deep dive into the symbolism of Advent and Epiphany, and discover how ancient traditions intersect with modern celebrations.
SPEAKER 12 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 02 :
That seems to me like government is establishing a religion.
SPEAKER 12 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 02 :
If you give people rights, women's rights, gay rights, whatever, there can't be equal rights if there are special rights.
SPEAKER 12 :
Today's current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 02 :
Surveys show that people still really prefer freedom over government force.
SPEAKER 12 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 02 :
Indeed, and welcome to The Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You're each treasured, you're valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history, and I am blessed to work with an amazing team. That's producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike. Teresa, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, You should not have to force people to do it. And you hear the show 6 to 8 a.m. Monday through Friday. Our first hour is rebroadcast 1 to 2 in the afternoon, second hour 10 to 11 at night. And this is on all KLZ 560 platforms. That's KLZ 560 a.m. klz 100.7 fm the klz website and the klz app and then once those shows are posted you can stream them on itunes spotify and the other streaming services so pleased to have on the line with me bill fetter he is the founder of the american minute and he is such a wealth of knowledge and we are pre-recording these special shows for you for christmas week and of course wish all of you and yours a very merry christmas bill fetter welcome
SPEAKER 05 :
It's great to be with you.
SPEAKER 02 :
And first question is really from, I guess, both Producer Joe and me, and that is the Christian liturgical calendar. I think a lot of people don't understand what it is exactly. So, of course, as we are recording this, we are in Advent. So Advent is the four Sundays before Christmas. But then we get into the Christmas season, the 12 days of Christmas, and then Epiphany, But there is more to that calendar. So explain this to us, Bill Fetter.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. So one of the early questions is, was Jesus definitely born on December 25th? And so I've gone into quite a bit of research on that in my book. The title of the book is, there really is a Santa Claus, the history of St. Nicholas and Christmas holiday traditions. And to start off, we have to identify the birthday of John the Baptist, because he's six months older than Jesus, and the Gospel of Luke gives us a clue. Now, the first three centuries of Christianity, Christians were mostly Jewish, and they were more concerned about the Passover, Christ's death and resurrection, and Jews did not celebrate birthdays. Even Josephus, the Jewish commentator, talked about how they did not make festivals of their children's births. So it wasn't until a bunch of Greeks began to convert to Christianity that the question was raised, when was Jesus born? And so it's a little bit of a detective story, but we go back to the Gospel of Luke, and it says, in the time of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah. So in the time of Herod, the calendar has him dying anywhere from 4 BC to 1 BC. So I can get into it later, but it wasn't until 526 AD that the monk Dionysus exegesis counted back to make AD BC. Prior to that, they would date things based on the different kings. And so whenever you'd have some document, it would always start off in the reign of this king and this country, and then synchronize that with this other king's reign in this other country. And you sort of triangulate and say, okay, I get it. It'd be like us saying, you know, in the third year of President Trump's first term. It's like, okay. So they'd say in the time of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah. What's the priestly division of Abijah? Well, First Chronicles 24, King David separated the Levite priests into 24 groups and Abijah's number eight. and so, but the Scripture doesn't tell us exactly how these 24 groups did their service, and so it wasn't until the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947 that they found what's called the Sacerdotal Rota System, and it's this system of the priest serving. And so each priestly division served twice a year, one week each, six months apart. And so now we find out that Abijah serves the eighth week, and then come back around, he serves the 32nd week. But when does the Jewish calendar start? When do we start counting off these divisions? There's lots of different questions on the calendar, but one that seems clear is the first division is called Jehoi Arab, and they were on duty when the temple was destroyed. And so we know from the Roman calendar, the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed on August 4th, 70 AD. And the Jewish date for that is the 9th of Av. And the Jerusalem Talmud says that the Jehovah Yareb family division was on duty when the temple was destroyed. And so since we know the temple was destroyed August 4th, that's the first week of August, and Jehovah Yareb was on duty, that means eight weeks later is when the Abijah family would be on duty. Well, eight weeks after the first week, August, is the last week of September. Now, this is an important week in the Jewish calendar. It's where the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles take place. And so Zechariah would have been in the temple for this very, very important week. That would explain why people are waiting outside. Now, the high priest gets to go into the Holy of Holies, but these other Levites get to go into what's called the Holy Place. It's sort of the first room you go into before the Holy of Holies, and that's the altar of incense is in there. And there's 24,000 Levites. And how do they decide who's going to get this honor of serving in the holy place? Is it on seniority? Is it popularity? Well, no, it's by lot. And so they would choose who's going to serve by lot. And so with 24,000, it's pretty rare to be chosen. And then to be chosen on this very important week, where you have the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, and the Feast of Tabernacles, is sort of a once-in-a-lifetime thing. And so the fact that Zechariah is in there this week, and the angel appears to him and tells him that his wife Elizabeth is going to get pregnant and bear a son, well, at the end of the week, he leaves, and his wife gets pregnant. And so the Byzantine Rite Church calendar marks September 23rd as the date of the conception of John the Baptist, the forerunner of Christ. And so now why is this important? The Gospel of Luke twice tells us that Mary visits Elizabeth in Elizabeth's sixth month of her pregnancy. And so if John the Baptist is conceived September 23rd, six months after that is the the last week of march and so march 25th is the date that traditionally has been for the conception of jesus right because called the annunciation when the angel gabriel appeared to mary and told her that she's going to conceive by the holy spirit she says i'm the handmaid of the lord and And so Mary conceives, and then she immediately goes to visit her cousin Elizabeth, who's in her sixth month. So if Mary conceives on March 25th, nine months later is December 25th. And so that's the traditional way of arriving at December 25th as the birth date of Christ. And then some people say, well... there wouldn't have been sheeps in the field because it's wintertime. Well, the climate of Bethlehem is like Dallas, Texas. It gets cool in the winter, but it's not cold. And there's many agricultural websites that says, here's one called the War Horse Valley County Farm Park. It says lambs are born around 145 days, about 4.5 months after the ewe falls pregnant. Lambing can start as early as December and go as late as June. And so another question is, well, wasn't December 25th picked to overlap the Roman festival of Saturnalia? Well, Saturnalia is the winter solstice. It's December 22nd. It's the furthest that the sun is, the earth is away from the sun. And you have the shortest day and the longest night. But it's December 22nd. It's not the 25th. So if you're going to pick a date to overlap something, you'd pick the date. And then some think, well, they pick the date to overlap the Roman holiday of Sol Invictus, the incomparable sun god. Well, that wasn't instituted by the Romans until 274 A.D., Emperor Aurelian. And this is obviously 274 years after Jesus, and we have records of church fathers like Pope Telephorus in 136 A.D. started the midnight mass on December 25th to celebrate what he believed to be the exact hour of Jesus' birth. Another church leader, Theophilus of Caesarea, 181 A.D., says we ought to celebrate the birthday of our Lord on whatever day the 25th of December shall happen. Another one is in 204 A.D., a saint Hippolytus of Rome, and he writes that the first advent of our Lord in the flesh when he was born in Bethlehem on December 25th. And so you have, these are all Christian leaders mentioning December 25th before the Romans picked Sol Invictus to celebrate their worship of the sun god. And so if you look at the bigger picture, the Romans are trying to stamp out Christianity. There are 10 major persecutions, Nero, Domitian, Aurelius, and they're all trying to wipe out Christianity. And so here comes along Emperor Aurelian, and he picks December 25th. And so the thought is maybe Christians did not pick December 25th to overlap a Roman Sol Invictus. Maybe Aurelian picked the date of December 25th to overlap the birth of Christ. similar to Kwanzaa that was started in 1966 by Ron Everett, specifically to be an alternative to Christmas. He was an ex-felon California State University professor and sort of into that period of racism. And so he specifically wanted to create a holiday as an alternative to Christmas that But it's right on the Christmas season, so that, again, people say, well, you know, did the Christians pick that date? Well, no Christian writer prior to the 12th century even hinted that it could have been the Christians overlapping the Roman date, right? And so the evidence is it's the Romans trying to stamp out Christianity. So with all that, that's why we celebrate Christmas, December 25th. And then you mentioned Epiphany. Well, I'll mention Advent.
SPEAKER 02 :
So, you know what, Bill, let's go to break. I'm talking with Bill Fetter. He is the creator of the American Minute and a great author of many different books. And this show comes due because of our wonderful sponsors. One of those is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. And give them a call at 303-795-8855 for a complimentary appointment, and they very well may be able to save you some money in the upcoming year.
SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. And as you all know, a nonprofit I dearly love is the USMC Memorial Foundation. The official Marine Memorial is located right here in... Golden, Colorado, and it was dedicated in 1977. And Paula Sarles, who is the president of the foundation, and her team are working diligently to raise the money for a remodel. So you can find out all the information about the USMC Memorial by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. On the line with me is Bill Fetter. He is an amazing author, speaker and creator of the American Minute. And we're talking about Christmas and just went through on. It's so fascinating on how we've determined or it was determined that December 25th is actually really Jesus's birthday. So with that, we kept as our cliffhanger Advent and Epiphany. in the church calendar. So what is Advent exactly, Bill Fetter?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, the word Advent simply means the coming, the coming of the Lord. And around 480 A.D. is when they began the practice of fasting three days a week, the four weeks prior to Christmas. So and then the lighting of the candles, they would have the candles in church with four candles and then one middle candle to light the others with, and they would light them as the week's approach to Christmas. But what is probably a more significant epiphany, so Eastern Europe and Western Europe had different dates that were important to them. And so Eastern Europe celebrated January 6th, most commonly called Epiphany, and that's when the three wise men visited. And Jesus was revealed to the world. The word Epiphany means revealed. And yet Western Europe celebrated December 25th as the holiest day. And they were trying to keep everybody together. So at the Council of Tours in 567 A.D., they decided to make all 12 days between December 25th and January 6th the 12 days of Christmas. So the 12 days of Christmas are not actually the 12 days leading up to Christmas. They're the 12 days between December 25th and January 6th. They were called Holy Days, and as the centuries went on, Holy Day got pronounced Holidays. And so when they say, well, don't say Merry Christmas, just say Happy Holidays. It's like, well, holiday means holy day. And what are the holy days but the 12 days of Christmas? So they can't get away from it. You know, I do want to mention something about the three wise men that came from the east. Well, east of Jerusalem is Persia. And what, you know, had been Babylon and then the Medo-Persian and then Cyrus and But Daniel, the story of Daniel, that he was obviously taken captive there. And Daniel five calls Daniel the master of the magicians, astrologers, child, Chaldeans and soothsayers. And the word magician, it's not pulling a rabbit out of a hat. The word magic meant wise man or consular to the king. And that's what Daniel was, a consular to the king. And so we know Daniel studied prophecy because Jeremiah said that the Jews would go back after 70 years of captivity. And the prophet Daniel was reading the prophet Jeremiah and saw this and set himself to pray. And that's when the angel Michael appeared to Daniel and said, you know, from the day you started praying, I was sent. But I was withstood for 21 days by the prince of the power of Persia or whatever. And but we know Daniel studies prophecies and he also studied the stars. And so he must have started a school of magi, of wise men who were counselors. And so he lived in the fourth century B.C. So in Persia, they must have had, you know, some Jews that were wise men that were counselors and And they kept up with it, and they saw the star of the promised Messiah and then went east. So just a little background there on the wise men. We don't know that there were three, which assumed there were three because there were three gifts mentioned, gold, frankincense, and myrrh. So we don't know the exact number of them. Of the wise men, we just know there were three gifts. So it's assumed they were three.
SPEAKER 02 :
What about the star? What's your thoughts about the star?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, that's really fascinating. There's a gentleman that did a video called the Bethlehem Star. And evidently they have computer programs installed. with simulations of all the orbits of all the planets and all the stars. And you can look at what the sky looks like on any day of the year. And matter of fact, Isaac Newton, Sir Isaac Newton, he spent more time writing on the book of Daniel than he did on gravity and optics and laws of science. So he was really, but he was trying to figure out where the stars were in like one BC. Um, but he didn't look at some of the other years. And, um, but with this, this Bethlehem star video talks about how you can literally go through, um, and, uh, just pick the date and it'll show what, well, One of those years, and I don't know off the end, you know, B.C., the stars line up. And so each constellation represented something. A regalist meant the regal or the king, the virgo, the virgin. There's a thought that what we look at today as the horoscope actually originally was God in the book of Genesis said that he put the stars in the sky for signs and seasons. And so it could have been that there was a prophecy of redemption in the movement of the stars that was twisted by pagans, similar to you could have different cults today, and they'll take the Bible and twist it. And so, but that's an interesting line of of study. I don't get into it a whole lot, but it is fascinating. So the thought is that there were constellations that represented the birth of a king. One of the stars, I'm going by memory of like Regulus, but they would go from the earth look like a circular pattern. So the earth is not the center of the solar system, the sun is. So the earth is going around and, but the other planets are going around. And so at some point it looks like, uh, like Venus is the largest, it looks like a star, but it's a planet. Um, and it looks like it's going one direction, but then all of a sudden it can turn in the sky and the next day it could be going back in an opposite direction. So they would call them wandering stars. Um, but, but the, um, but you know, from the earth's perspective, it looked like they turned, but if you were in the sun, they would just be going around you. Um, but, uh, Anyway, so there was very unusual movements of the planets and stars that the wise men interpreted as signifying that the king was going to be born. Right. And I'm not doing it justice, but the Bethlehem Star video was quite fascinating. I do think another point that I can speak a little more authoritatively on is the calendar. So originally, we didn't have ADBC, like 2024 or whatever. you had different kings and different kingdoms, and people would date things by who was in power. And so, for example, 2 Kings 18, 13 says, in the 14th year of King Hezekiah's reign. And then in Luke 1, 3, chapter 3, verse 1, it says, in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar. So imagine if we didn't have our calendar and we would try to say, okay, well, this is a time when, you know, um, you know, queen Elizabeth the seconds in England, uh, Ronald Reagan is the president. Um, you know, you, you know, you have, um, you know, you, and you just sort of name the different people that were in power and people get sort of in their brain figure, okay, I can get, I can get the time period you're talking in. Um, but, um, So they were dating things in Rome to the emperor Diocletian, A.D. Anno Diocletiani. And Diocletian was a bad guy. He was killing Christians. And so he is gone. Constantine becomes the emperor. He's Christian. Then you've got several centuries. And then in 526 A.D., you have Dionysus' exegesis. He's a monk. And they didn't have copy machines back then, and so everything that's written had to be hand-copied. And so in these monasteries, these monks would laboriously hand-copy documents, and then they would copy the dates. And he thought that it was inappropriate that they were still dating events. back to Diocletian's reign, you know, and because Diocletian was a bad guy. So he takes it upon himself to try to overlap all of these different range of these different emperors and kings. It's quite complicated because sometimes you'd have a king keep the name of a previous king. And but he figured as best he could to the date that Jesus was born. We know he was a little bit off because there's no year zero. If you have a timeline and it's going from negative to positive, you have to have this zero there. Well, you skip that. He went from 1 B.C. to 1 A.D., so we know it's got to be at least a little off. But as best as he could, he figured out the year that Jesus was born, and he would write it in the margin of whatever he was copying. And then the other monks picked up on it, and they started doing it. And then as the centuries went on and until the Hun invades Europe, the cities are wiped out. And then you got, you know, Islam attacking. And then you have, you know, a lot of people are illiterate, but the only people that could actually read and write were the monks. And they decide to just use A.D. Anno Domini in the year of our Lord's reign as the dating system. And, uh, And then when the Muslims were invading what is today Turkey, you had Greek scholars fleeing west with all their Greek literature. This is what we call the Renaissance. And then after that was called the Age of Discovery. And then you have the Portuguese and Spanish and Dutch and English and French sailing around the world, setting up trading posts that turn into colonies that turn to them, taking their dating system with them. And so now you take this A.D. dating system and you're spreading it around the world until today. it is the worldwide accepted dating system. And so everything in the world is dated A, D, or B, C. Now, In the late 1800s, you had some archaeologists that weren't Christian, and they didn't want to do B.C. before Christ and A.D. Anno Domini, because they didn't want to mention Jesus. So they created B.C.E. and C.E., which means before common era and common era. And it's like, I have a question. When did it change from before Common Era to Common Era? The birth of Christ. They can't get away from it. It's there. The whole calendar in the world is dated back to the birth of Christ. I love this quote from Clarence Mannion. He was the dean of Notre Dame Law School. And he said, the long march of measured times suddenly stopped and did an about face and started to march in another direction to a different drummer straight through the ensuing centuries of Christ from Christendom. B.C., before Christ, and A.D., Anno Domini, in the year of our Lord, mark each one of the only reliable milestones along the path of world history. The end of the first time chain and the beginning of the second came together on the night that Christ was born in Bethlehem. The first Christmas day thus stands as the great divide. for the timing and recording of all people, things, and events that have lived or taken place upon this earth. The one place on the long, long trail of time where the magnetic needle of history stands vertical and points up.
SPEAKER 02 :
Wow, that is so fascinating. One other clarification, you said that this change from BC to BCE was in the 1800s. I thought it was something that was recent. Did I hear that correctly?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, they had this movement called skepticism, and you had the German archaeologists going over, you know, Schliemann, and then... They were the ones that began to introduce into academia this alternative thing. It was not used by the common people. They tried to make a push by putting it in museums and stuff, but it's sort of fallen out of use.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, that is super interesting, Bill Fetter. And gosh, the show comes to you because of all of our great sponsors. We are pre-recording these shows for Christmas week so that you have some very special informative things that you'll be learning about. And this all happens because of our great sponsors. And one of those is John Boson with Boson Law.
SPEAKER 04 :
Boson Law fights for clients who've been injured or family members who have lost a loved one due to the careless, reckless, or wrongful conduct of others. Whether injured in a car accident, suffered an injury due to a product or bad pharmaceutical drug, or need help fighting for medical care and benefits following an accident at work, don't go it alone and uninformed. Boston Law is the law firm you need in your corner. Time is of the essence with any personal injury claim. Call 303-999-9999 to schedule your complimentary consultation. That number again is 303-999-9999. Call now.
SPEAKER 02 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. You can sign up for our weekly email newsletter there. You'll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. And you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. We are pre-recording these shows for Christmas week. But one of the things I would recommend is to put the family in the car and head down to Pueblo to the Center for American Values, which is located on the Riverwalk Highway. They're in Pueblo. And the center is co-founded by Drew Dix, a Medal of Honor recipient, for actions he took during the Vietnam War, and Brad Padula, who is an Emmy Award-winning documentary maker. And Drew and Brad just realized that we needed to honor our Medal of Honor recipients. And so that is one of the focuses of the center. And their portraits of valor are really amazing. They're so inspirational, and it's a really reverent place. And so get more information. Go to AmericanValueCenter.org. That's AmericanValueCenter.org. And as I mentioned, we're pre-recording these shows for Easter week. It's not Easter, so Christmas week. And on the line with me is Bill Federer. He is the founder of the American Minute. He is an author, speaker. And I mentioned Easter because I was looking at this seasons of the church year. And let's just go through this a little bit, Bill Federer. We talked about Advent and Christmas and the 12 days of Christmas, which is Epiphany. And then the next thing that is recognized on the church calendar will be Lent. Is that right, Bill?
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. So Lent begins 40 days before Easter. And that's where you'd fast. Matter of fact, it fits into my Christmas presentation. But the day before the fasting is Mardi Gras. And so it used to be a more religious day. And now it's turned into a lewd party in New Orleans. But it used to be the beginning of Lent when you would fast 40 days before Easter. And then the Gospels report that Jesus was with the disciples for 40 days and then told them to tarry in Jerusalem until they'd be endued with power from on high. And so for 10 days they waited in the upper room, and the Holy Spirit was poured out on the day of Pentecost. So the Pentecost is the Jewish feast. to celebrate the beginning of the harvest. And so the Christian application would be the beginning of the harvest of souls. And so 3,000 people became Christian the first day, 8,000 by the end of the week. And then at the end of the week, the Jews would go back to all their different countries around the world. So three feasts, The Jews had seven major feasts, and then Jesus' life fulfilled them, but three are yet to be fulfilled. So the Feast of... A Passover is when the Jews would sacrifice the lamb in remembrance of the families killing a lamb, putting the blood over the doorposts of their house in Egypt, so the angel of judgment, angel of death, would pass over, symbolic of saying, this lamb took the judgment in our place, and we're trusting in the blood of this lamb. And then the judgment passed over them, so they would call it Passover. The next day, the Jews would celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Leaven is symbolic of yeast And so they would get all the leaven out of their homes. And so since leaven symbolized sin, Jesus took all the sin out of the world. And then the day following is the Feast of First Fruits. It's when the first shoots would come out of the ground and the Jews would cut them off and then wave them before the Lord in the temple. And then the Apostle Paul says, Jesus is the first fruit of those risen from the dead and each in his course. And we're going to follow after him. And so Jesus rose from the dead on the Feast of Firstfruits, and then 50 days later is the Feast of Pentecost, the beginning of the Harvest of Souls, and that's when the Jews would begin their harvest season, which would go on all summer. And then at the end of the harvest season is the Feast of Tabernacles, where they would first have the Feast of Trumpets, they'd blow the trumpets, signify the harvest is over, and then they would gather together for the Day of Atonement, very serious, where they would bring the blood into the Holy of Holies the one time a year, and everyone's sins in the country would be forgiven. And then the Feast of Tabernacles is when they would celebrate. They build little booths to remember their ancestors lived in tents coming out of Egypt. But it's also symbolic of us living forever with the Lord. Jesus said in my father's house, there are many dwelling places. If we're not so, I'd tell you, and if I go to prepare a place for you. And so the idea is it will be fulfilled when we're with the Lord. So the last feast of trumpets and atonement and tabernacles, the Christian – The fulfillment of those are yet to be, but the first ones of Passover unleavened bread and feast of first fruits and then 50 days later Pentecost, those have been fulfilled, as we believe. One other thing I like to point out is on the day of Pentecost, they heard them speaking in their own languages, right? Arabic and Elamites and Scythians and all these different countries. And so why were they in Jerusalem? So once Moses had around 1400 BC come out of Egypt, he set these feasts. And then 722 BC, the 10 northern tribes of Israel were captured by the Assyrians and scattered all around. And then a century or so later, Judea was scattered to Babylon and And a small number went back. But now you have pockets of Jews scattered around the world. And then you have the Greeks conquer and spread the Greek language, Alexander the Great. And so now you have pockets of Jews, but there's an international language of Greek that you can communicate. And then beginning around 60 B.C., you have what's called the Pax Romana. The Romans built a road system, so now you can travel around the world. But Pax means peace, and so you have a century of world peace. And so that begins 60 B.C., then it goes to Jesus, and then 30 B.C. A.D., and so then the Feast of Pentecost, and then you have a few years right before Nero starts the persecution of the Christians, and then we're into the wars.
SPEAKER 02 :
But you have—and so— So, Bill, I just wanted to clarify for everyone on this church calendar. So it begins—the church calendar begins with the first Sunday of Advent, and Advent is the four Sundays before— Christmas. And then we have Christmas and the 12 days of Christmas that goes to January 6th. That's called Epiphany. And then that time from Epiphany goes until Lent. And it depends on the amount of time, because isn't the church calendar lunar based? Is that right or not?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, so the Jewish calendar is lunar. It gets a little bit confusing. Julius Caesar, he died in 45 B.C. He conquered, and he wanted one calendar for everything that Romans had conquered. So at the time, you'd have an Athenian calendar, a Jewish calendar, an Egyptian calendar, a Persian calendar. Oh, boy. Some are solar, some are lunar. Some would have a catch-all month at the end of the year. Some would have 30-day months. And anyway, so Caesar decided to have one calendar, and he moved the beginning of the year for most countries from March 25th. The spring equinox, equal means equal and nox means night. And it's where the Earth is halfway in its elliptical orbit around the sun. So for most of the world, March 25th was the beginning of the year. Julius Caesar moves it to January 1st. And the remnants are still there. So September, sept is Latin for seven. But now September is the ninth month. And oct, octagon, oct is Latin for eight, but now it's the 10th month. And nove is Latin for nine, now it's the 11th month. And December, decimal, right, that was 10th, but now it's the 12th month. So we still have evidence of the old calendar. Now Julius Caesar named a month after himself, the old fifth month, Quintilius, he made it July. And then the next Caesar was Augustus, and he wanted to name a month after himself, so he made it August. And those dates, Months only had 30 days, so they borrowed a day from the old end of the year, February, and added it to July and August. So that's why February has 28 days.
SPEAKER 02 :
And just to finish this up then, so we have Epiphany. That is fascinating. And then Lent is the 40 days before Easter. And then the calendar I'm looking at, you have the three days of Christ's death to his resurrection. You have Easter, that season. And then after Easter, there's Pentecost, the 50 days where Christ is making himself visible to people. and people on the earth for 40 days and then you said that he goes to heaven and then for 10 days the disciples are praying in the upper room waiting for the Holy Spirit. Am I getting that right?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, yeah. And Mary's up there with them and they, you know, Judas is no longer their number so they have to, you know, choose another one to take Judas' place because, you know, there's 12 and And so, yeah, so that's, but they're still hiding out. It's not until they're filled with the Holy Spirit do they get boldness to proclaim publicly the gospel. And so, yeah. And then at the end of the week, all these Jews who had become Christians leave Jerusalem, go back on the Roman roads, can speak Greek to people they meet along the way. They go back up to their communities and In other words, for 1,400 years, the entire world was set up for the rapid spread of a message at the day of Pentecost. It's like, boom, within one week. I mean, think of it. If there were wars, you got this Pax Romana. There's peace. If there weren't road systems, I mean, it'd be really hard to go. If there wasn't a common Greek language, if there wasn't pockets of Jews already waiting... It would be really hard to spread the gospel. It's like the whole world for 1,400 years was prepared for this one week, this one day, Pentecost, boom, end of the week. It's all over the world.
SPEAKER 02 :
I just got chills as you said that, Bill Fetter. God's pretty amazing. I think as we live our lives, we don't know for sure what the whole plan is, but there's a George Washington quote or attributed to George Washington. What do we do? He says, we pray, we work, and we leave the rest to God. Because we don't know where we are in this whole plan, but these 1,400 years to get to that point to, as you say, boom, the gospel was spread. That is fascinating, Bill Fetter.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it's so special. And the other thing is the prophecies. They have to be not clear enough so the devil can't figure them out and try to stop them, but clear enough so that when Jesus, He could walk along the road to Emmaus, and beginning with Moses and the prophets, he could confirm that he's the promised Messiah. You know, you think of Herod. When the three wise men came and said, we're here to see the king of the Jews, Herod's in a panic. I mean, he's killed his own sons because he thought they were wanting to usurp his power. He killed his wife because he was thinking that she was plotting behind his back. I mean, here's Herod killing people that threaten his throne, and now these wise men come and say, we're here to see the king, and you're not it? And so he's panicking. So he plays along. Oh, you know. And then he tells his scribes, digging the scripts, they're telling him, where is this Messiah supposed to be born? And they say, oh, Micah says it's going to be in Bethlehem. And that's when Herod says, kill all the babies in Bethlehem two years in the year. And so if Herod, the devil, right, in Herod, if he could have known the prophecies ahead of time, he'd have killed them all beforehand. And so God had to, it's sort of like those little, you know, Cracker Jacks prizes that have the little picture and you look at it from one, you know. perspective and you see one picture, but you tilt it and look at it from another perspective and you see another picture, got the little plastic ridges on it, you know, it's like from the devil's point of view, he can read the scripture and it's a book that's locked. He can't understand it. But when somebody is filled with the Holy Spirit, all of a sudden you have the writer of the book living on the inside of you. Now you get insight into it. And it's like, okay, now I can see. So the prophecies had to be not clear enough so the devil couldn't figure them out, try to stop them, but clear enough so that when Jesus came, it's like turn the corner on a cornfield, you see the rose line up. It's like, oh, he's the promised Messiah.
SPEAKER 02 :
Wow. Oh, this is fascinating. And I'm talking with Bill Federer. He's the creator of the American Minute and an author of many books. Fascinating speaker. And the show comes to you because of our sponsors. I know each and every one of them personally. They all strive for excellence. And one of those is Lorne Levy for Everything Mortgages.
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We'll be right back. Lauren understands that each financial transaction is personal. If you'd like to explore your options on a reverse mortgage, remodel your home, buy a rental property, or move, call Lauren Levy at 303-880-8881. Licensed in 49 states, Kim Monson highly recommends Lauren Levy for all your mortgage needs. Call Lauren at 303-880-8881.
SPEAKER 11 :
All of Kim's sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of the Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That's Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. And you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And I will be beginning my seventh year of solo broadcasting at the beginning of the year. And a sponsor that has been with me since before is Hooters Restaurants and how I got to know them. It's an important story about freedom and free markets and capitalism and PBIs that I wanted to exert here. Special power. And so check out my website for that complete story. But Hooters Restaurants is a great place to get together with friends to watch all of the games. And they have five locations, Loveland, Aurora, Lone Tree, Westminster and Colorado Springs. I'm talking with Bill Fetter. He is the creator of the American Minute. He's an amazing author and speaker. And we're talking about, well, the church calendar, which is fascinating. But this last segment, let's talk about old St. Nick. Bill Fetter.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. So St. Nicholas is the most popular Greek Orthodox saint. There are more Greek Orthodox churches named after St. Nicholas than anybody else. Nick is a common Greek name. He was born in 280 A.D. during the Roman persecution time. A movement was sweeping through Christianity called monasticism, where Jesus told the rich young ruler, one thing you like, sell all, give to the poor, follow me. And so you would have people becoming Christians and giving away their money and joining monasteries, and so that's what happened to Nicholas. He decided he wanted to give away the money anonymously because he didn't want to get the credit, so he'd sneak into town, throw the money in the window of poor people. Supposedly, it would land in a shoe or a stocking that's dropped by the fireplace. And so these Greeks would leave presents for each other on the anniversary of his death, December 6, 343 A.D. He also confronted corrupt politicians. He stood up for the Nicene Creed and the Trinity. But after his death, the Byzantine Emperor Justinian builds a church, names it after him. Then 988 A.D., Vladimir the Great, the emperor of Russia, converts to Greek Orthodox Christianity and adopts Nicholas as the patron saint of Russia. And then in 1087, the Muslims are invading Turkey. Back then it was Asia Minor. All seven churches mentioned in the Book of Revelation were wiped out by the Turks. And the concern was they would destroy the grave of Nicholas because they were destroying churches and destroying graves. In 846 AD, 11,000 Muslim pirates sailed up the Tiber River to Rome and trashed the Basilica of St. Peter's and trashed the bones of St. Peter and St. Paul. So the fear of them trashing bones of saints was very real. So in 1087, they moved the bones of Nicholas to a little town in Italy called Bari, B-A-R-I. Pope Urban II dedicates the church, and it's still there. Urban II goes to the consul of Claremont, 1095, begs European kings to send help. They do. It's called the First Crusade. So the same pope that welcomes Nicholas' remains to Italy is the one who calls for the First Crusade. But the gift-giving caught on, so much so that in 1223 A.D., Francis of Assisi started the creche scene, the nativity scene, to say the gift-giving's fine, but it's a distraction. We need to get back to the reason for the season. Jesus was born a major... And then you have Martin Luther starts the Reformation, 1517. And by this time, there's a saint's day for every day of the year. Churches are filled with relics of saints, little pieces of bone and hair and side altars. And Martin Luther considered all this a distraction from Christ. So he ends the saint's days in the Protestant Europe. But the Germans like the gift giving that was associated with the St. Nicholas Day. So Martin Luther moves all the gift giving to December 25th and says all gifts come from the Christ child. And the German pronunciation of Christ child is Christkindl. Christ means Christ, kindle, like kindergarten, kinder care, kind means child. So Christkindl over the centuries got pronounced Christkringle. So Christkringle is really Christkindl, which means Christ child. And then England is different. Henry VIII brings a reformation, not because he wanted to focus on the Christ child, he just wanted another wife, and he brings back the trappings of an old Roman holiday called Saturnalia. So Britain used to be a Roman colony, and Saturn was the god of feasting and plenty and merriment. If you saw the Christmas carol with Charles Dickens, there's the ghost of Christmas present, and it's the party guy. Robes, wreath in his hair, goblet of wine, and you're looking at him saying, who is this guy? Sort of looks like Santa, sort of looks like some Roman god. Well, That was Saturn, but they Christianized and called him Father Christmas. Shakespeare writes a play called Twelfth Night, and it's a big party time. So Windsor, England, under the Tudors, which is Henry VIII's family, Christmas becomes this risque party time of drinking, carousing, wassailing, which they take a drink of booze and throw the rest of it on a plant for a nice harvest the next year, cross-dressing, parties, throwing food. Bear bathing, where they'd put bears in a pit and watch them fight to the death. I mean, it was just so—and so the Puritans come along, and they outlaw Christmas. They said it's too worldly. That Puritan leader Cotton Mather said, can you in your conscience think that our holy Savior is honored by mad mirth, long eating, hard drinking? And the Puritans were so strict, they tore down Shakespeare's theater. They considered it sort of a lewd body placement. And so the pilgrims come to America. They don't celebrate Christmas. Puritans actually have a five-shilling fine in Massachusetts for everybody caught celebrating Christmas. So where the pilgrims, Puritans, and most Presbyterians did not celebrate Christmas, the Dutch did. And so the Dutch do a take on St. Nicholas, but in the Book of Revelation, Jesus will return at the end of the world to judge living and the dead riding a white horse. Saints will come back with him riding white horses. St. Nicholas is a saint, so he'll be one of those riding a white horse. But he's so special to the Dutch, they have him coming back once a year for a little mini judgment day, a little checkup on the kids, see who's naughty, see who's nice. And saints come from heaven. Well, that turns into the North Pole. And riding a white horse, well, in Finland and Norway, they didn't have many horses, so he's riding a reindeer, and that turns into pulling a sleigh. And then the angels turn into the elves. And then the Lamb's Book of Life and Book of Works turned into the Book of the Naughty and the Nice. And so you can sort of see where it gets off. And so the Dutch add a little bit. They say the good kids get presents. The naughty kids, Santa's helpers, Varte Pete, will put them in a gunny sack, take them back to Spain and sell them into Muslim slavery. Sort of a serious thing there. But then the Dutch settled New York, which became the first church they started was the St. Nicholas Dutch Reformed Church in New York. He was the patron saint in New York. I don't know if you knew that. And so the church grew and grew. They had to move it a couple of times. Teddy Roosevelt visited there. And once they sold the building to Sinclair Oil and tore it down, they built a new building called the Marble Collegiate Church. And that's where the Trump family actually went to church. In New York, you have Washington Irving writes, you know, Rip Van Winkle, Legend of Sleepy Hollow. And he writes about the Dutch traditions and then Clement Moore. And now for Christmas, I'll do the house and stockings were hung by the chimney with care and hopes that St. Nicholas would soon be there. But now he's not dressed as a bishop. He's dressed in a Dutch outfit. But it's a fascinating story all the way to, you know, Coca-Cola. He pioneered mass marketing. But underneath it all, there really was a guy, Nicholas, who loved Jesus, became a bishop, was a prison for his Christian faith, stood up for the Trinity, and he was generous and gave to the poor.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, Bill Federer, fascinating. And thank you so much.
SPEAKER 05 :
It's all in a book. There really is a Santa Claus.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, that's your book. There really is a Santa Claus, and people can buy that at AmericanMinute.com, correct?
SPEAKER 07 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, Bill Fetter, thank you so much. And again, check out AmericanMinute.com. There are many amazing books there. And our quote for the end of the show is from St. Nicholas. He said, kindness is a language that the deaf can hear and the blind can see. So my friends today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you. God bless America. Stay tuned for hour number two.
SPEAKER 07 :
I will fight for the right to live in freedom.
SPEAKER 09 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 12 :
It's the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 02 :
That seems to me like government is establishing a religion.
SPEAKER 12 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
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SPEAKER 12 :
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Surveys show that people still really prefer freedom over government force.
SPEAKER 12 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let's have a conversation.
SPEAKER 02 :
And welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You're each treasured. You're valued. You have purpose today. Strive for excellence. Take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. And thank you. I get to work with a really amazing team, and that is producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Echo, Teresa, Mike, all the people at Crawford Broadcasting. And we are prerecording the shows for this Christmas week. And we're going to be doing a lot of And special guests, special subjects, and so pleased to have on the line with me, Ben Martin. He's a patriotic historian. He's a graduate of West Point, former Army Ranger, and just so excited to have him on the line. So welcome, Ben Martin.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, thank you very much, Kim. It's great to be here with you just around Christmas time and talk about something that really happened around Christmas time. So looking forward to doing that.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, absolutely. So we are pre-recording. This will broadcast on Christmas Eve, which Christmas Eve is one of my most favorite days of the year because it celebrates the birth of our Savior. But there was a lot happening at the beginning of our country during this time. And George Washington, the general of the Continental Army, was making difficult decisions. So, first of all, set this up regarding George Washington and this time of year.
SPEAKER 13 :
Good, Kim. Thank you. Today we're going to talk about the New Jersey campaign, what was called the New Jersey campaign of 1776 and 1777. and the turning points in America's Revolutionary War for Independence. During the study of this war, there are really important turning points that are obvious. Kim and I, talking to the audience, Kim and I have discussed many of these in detail in the past right here on her program. And they include America's Army's superb performance at Bunker Hill, I'm just going to list a few of these that hopefully you can relate to. And the second was the American use of bayonets at the Battle of Concord and the British retreat. General Knox is hauling the guns of Ticonderoga to Boston to oust the British there. Washington, Generals Washington and Glover miraculously evacuating the Army from Brooklyn during the Battle of Brooklyn Heights. And then the American victory at Battle of Saratoga. Ben Franklin's persuading the French Army and Navy to join the American side. America's Army's greatest performance at the Battle of Monmouth Courthouse. We'll touch on that a little bit here. And then America's victory, American victories in the south, the south part of the country at Kings Mountain and Calpins. Those were great turning points. i've luckily i've visited both of those places and the french navy joining the battle of yorktown which sealed the deal for us and actually was uh... the end of the culminating battle of the war so after much study and reflection over the years on our revolutionary war i've come to believe that the turning points we are to discuss today or as important as any of them for in this situation as in most of them if washington had not had the perseverance and leadership to turn the american forces at this time the war could easily have been lost and along with it the declaration and all the good things that have come after that so this turning point campaign that led washington and the army on a run for their lives chase down through new jersey and across the delaware river and into pennsylvania is one of those great founding episodes of our remarkable founding history. And I hope that everybody can relate to this today. And this was a really tough time. Washington had so many challenges that he was doing, and he faced them all with great perseverance and great optimism that he was going to get through it, even though the situation seemed like that he wasn't. So here was the situation facing Washington in America. After their great victories in Boston and Charleston, that both happened during this time just preceded this campaign, they came to New York City to face the largest contingent of Army and Navy forces ever to land on the American shore. The British soldiers and sailors numbered over 40,000 men and hundreds of warships and transports. The battles in the New York campaign were the largest of the whole war. Without going into detail, the Americans unfortunately lost almost every battle. This included many men that were wounded, captured, or killed, along with prodigious amounts of cannon, weapons, ammunition, supplies, and provisions. Such catastrophic losses could easily crush the spirit of most seasoned commanders, but General Washington remained focused on his mission, what he called the glorious cause, the war, and protecting the Army and those soldiers with whom he was charged. His attentions were keenly focused on those missions and on the upcoming chase through New Jersey. To add to this dilemma facing Washington, during this critical time, he would be undermined and betrayed by two of his highest-ranking generals. and his personal aid.
SPEAKER 14 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 13 :
And so he had all these things to do, and then he was being undermined and betrayed really close at hand. And as early as October, Washington had shown prescience by working with Nathaniel Green, who in time would prove to be his most capable subordinate commander. He established supply points along the most likely route of withdrawal through New Jersey. And this would benefit and prove to be a critical benefit to the American Army as it stayed ahead of the British and Hessian forces that were pursuing them. The Patriot soldiers may have been without shoes and winter clothing during this chase, but they were relatively well fed. So still Washington persevered and stayed focused on the mission. An important action Washington took, another important action before heading south into New Jersey, was to hold a meeting with his senior generals on 7 November 1776 to provide a plan for the unexpected British chasing them through New Jersey. Washington had already established an extensive and reliable intelligence network to keep informed of British movement and plans. From these sources, he knew that despite the British threat to the New England states, which the New England states, of course, were very interested in, and the Hudson River, the biggest concern is the probable British attack south through New Jersey to capture the nascent American government and the capital city, the then capital city of Philadelphia. So the American plan was that Washington divided the army into four parts. He assigned the largest part to General Lee, approximately 77,000 troops, to prevent the British from going north and controlling the Hudson River and cutting off the New England states from the rest of America. In giving Lee, General Lee, the largest part of the army... Washington told him to stay in close contact with him and to be ready to bring your portion of the Army south to support me if the British move south and chase me through New Jersey. That was really critical. He gave him more troops than Washington was commanding at the time so that he could do the same thing, come down and attack the British from the rear if they attacked him. So that was really important to him. I'm giving you the most troops, but you need to be able to be in close contact with me and support me. So the second group, or second of the four, he gave 3,000 troops to General William Heath to protect the Hudson Highlands from the British control. The highlands are the southern part of the Hudson River. West Point is part of that. And then for the third one, he assigned eight regiments, approximately 3,200 troops, to General William Alexander, sometimes called Lord Sterling, and approximately 1,200 troops to Colonel Edward Hand to protect the northern New Jersey coast from the British attacks from the sea that would cut the Americans off. And they stopped them from coming ashore so that they could not prevent the British from that they could prevent the British from outflanking the American forces and coming between them and protecting Philadelphia and Congress.
SPEAKER 02 :
So, Ben Martin, let's take a break right here. I'm talking with patriotic historian Ben Martin regarding George Washington and two key turning points that happened right around this time of year in 1776. And we have these important discussions because we have amazing sponsors who strive for excellence. And we are pre-recording these shows for Christmas week. And so pleased to have on the line with me John Boson with Boson Law. Boson Law is a valued partner of the Kim Munson Show. And they specialize in personal injury. And they not only just try to settle, but they also, if need be, will go to trial for your case. And they just do amazing work. I work with people that strive for excellence. And I'm so pleased to have John Boson on the line. on the line. John Bosen, Merry Christmas.
SPEAKER 03 :
Merry Christmas, Kim. And I am so pleased and happy to be able to have a partnership with you and help to make sure your voice is heard loud and clear out there for folks to understand and get the truth.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, and we need to engage in this battle of ideas. And I think that we're making progress. I think, John, I think that Colorado is at the tip of the spear for all of the crazy, extreme stuff that the radical activists are trying to push forward. And so that's why what we're doing is so important. And so I really do appreciate your support on this and your partnership. recommend them. As we're moving into the Christmas holiday season, I always like to ask you about how do we stay safe during this time of year?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it's difficult because to stay safe, you need to be focused. And there are so many good and bad distractions around the holiday season. But we really do when, and again, I'm speaking specifically not just with regard to automobiles, but that's one that's super important. When we get behind the wheel, we got to be focused. We can't be thinking about the Christmas party, the Secret Santa get together, all of the family coming into town, and how we're going to prepare for that big Christmas dinner. We have to focus on the task at hand. And when you're behind the wheel, that's driving. Also, when you're out and about, Christmas shopping, going to restaurants, it's just keeping yourself in the moment and and what i mean by that is just being aware of what's around you um looking at the ground And it's not something a lot of us will do. I do it as a personal injury attorney because I know how people get into it all the time. But this time of year, snow and ice and ice and snow that's not removed when it should be. And it can create a real bad situation. And nobody wants to have to deal with that ever, but especially around the holiday season. So it's really just keeping aware and being focused.
SPEAKER 02 :
You know, the other morning when we had the snow and ice just recently, I was going into the studio and it was slick. And it wasn't because I don't think that they were negligent or anything. It was just what the conditions were. And I just thought of what you said, and that was stay focused. And so I walked very gingerly. to get into the studio because I did want to get injured. And so I think that doing things to prevent yourself from getting injured is so important. Of course, if you are injured, we would recommend that people reach out to you. But again, we just have to use common sense and we can prevent a lot of problems in our lives.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, common sense and slow down in situations like the one you just described and also when you're on the road and conditions are not ideal.
SPEAKER 02 :
One other thing, John Boson, at church, the church I go to, there's lots of families, lots of little kids, and little kids have their own time frame, it seems like, to try to get ready to go do something. And I think we need to give families permission to Even though they may be running late for whatever the event is because it takes a while to get the kids in the car, give them permission to say, I'm going to get there. When I get there, I'm doing the best that I can instead of worrying and hurrying. I think that we need to give them a little bit of grace.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think that applies to everybody, Kim. I'm thinking of my family, my wife, my adult kids. Yeah, give people grace this time of year. Give them grace all throughout the year.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah, most definitely. So we have about 30 seconds left. Your final thought you'd like to leave with our listeners, John Boson?
SPEAKER 03 :
Remember why we celebrate. And there's nothing more important than the reason that we celebrate. And I just wish all the listeners a great, safe, Happy holidays with family and friends.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, and right back at you, John Bosen. I wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas, and we will talk to you then next week. Have a great day.
SPEAKER 03 :
You too. Merry Christmas, Kim.
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SPEAKER 10 :
You'd like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can't remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim's website, kimmunson.com. That's Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 02 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And I want to say thank you to the Harris family, great sponsors of the show, bringing these great... voices to the air. I so appreciate them. And then also I wanted to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation. The Memorial for the Marines is right here in Colorado, 6th and Colfax. It was dedicated in 1977, so it's time for a remodel. And I would really suggest before the end of the year, make a contribution at the USMC Memorial Foundation as they're raising money for that remodel. It's tax deductible, but it's so important to honor Those that have given their lives have been willing to give their lives for us, for our liberty. And so you can get more information by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. That is usmcmemorialfoundation.org. On the line with me is Ben Martin. He is... a patriotic historian, a former Army Ranger, a graduate from West Point. And Ben, before we went to break, you had explained that in 1776, November 1776, George Washington had taken his army and divided it into four parts with 7,000 to General Lee, 3,000 to General Heath. Was that 3,200?
SPEAKER 13 :
William Heath, right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay, 3,200 to General Alexander and 1,200 to General Hand, correct? Right. Okay, so what happens then?
SPEAKER 13 :
So we have those four, and so just to quickly total those up for you, just to give you a concept here, there were like almost 19,000 troops there. that he portioned out to his other commanders, his subordinate commanders, so that they could protect other areas. And he took the least amount of troops. He took 5,500 of them to go down south, and he was going to be the bait. And this is the commander-in-chief. You know, with everything else going around, he's the bait, and he wants the other generals to be able to support him If the British Army, which he believes, will follow him, they want to get rid of him. They want to kill him. They think he is the source of all of our strength, which is pretty much true in the Army. So it shows how selfless he was as a leader. He took the smallest amount, and he said, you guys support me. You take the big guys. You support me. They'll come chasing me. So that's what happens then and then. The Howe brothers on the other side, they realized that weather was turning damp and cooler, the fall was coming in, and that the harsh American winters would soon arrive, too. So they had a big army and navy to protect during this wintertime because in Europe, the European wars, they really didn't fight during the wintertime. So they wanted these forces to be ready to assume the attack when the weather warmed again in 1777. And by early November, they devised a two-campaign plan to accomplish both these objectives, to take care of their army and to take care of their Navy. Now, the army was run by General William Howell, and his brother was Admiral Richard, they called him Black Dick Howell, because he was a pretty stern commander. And he would move his navy north to Rhode Island to control Newport and to use that warm, wet water port there to protect his fleet. And Howe would send this expedition for south to occupy the eastern counties of New Jersey and to take advantage of the rich farmland that was there that was unspoiled by the war at this time for food and forage. Additionally, they could use the small towns in New Jersey to shelter their troops. They believed this action could be accomplished quickly. They thought they could destroy the American army before winter. Since they thought that most of the beaten American army was north of New York City and could not respond, to any actions that were going to be done in the south. And Washington, like I said, he kind of thought of all this stuff, and he wanted to make them think that the army was going to stay north. But then as he went down and they chased him, then he expected the other commanders to send their armies down so that they got the British in kind of a squeeze box, you know, Washington in the south and the other forces in the north. And that would really surprise him. and win the campaign. But he will be surprised. So the occupation, they thought, would drive the remaining Continental Army out of this area, the area of New Jersey, and give them a free path to get down to our capital in Philadelphia and to destroy, capture our government. So they estimated, the British, that these plans were good and would maintain the initiative And that's always important with an army. You have to maintain the initiative. While providing a solid base to resume operations in 1777, if the American army survived the winter and another campaign was necessary. They didn't kind of believe that would happen. They believed they would crush them all before the winter set in. To lead this campaign, General Howell chose General Cornwallis. Now, this is another thing about these generals here. You know, Hal makes all these big plans, but he doesn't want to do them. He goes back to New York City to be with his concubine. He thinks he's going to spend the winter warmly in New York City comfortably, and he's going to send Cornwallis down there to take care of the heavy work. So then they start the race through New Jersey, and that's where it starts. And by 10 November, Washington had crossed the Hudson River and was headed south. And he set up his first headquarters in Hackensack, New Jersey. General Cornwallis and his forces crossed in 20, 10 days later, 20 November, to first attack Fort Lee, which was on the New Jersey side of the Hudson River. But it had already been abandoned by Green, and he had taken most of the supplies out of there. Not all of them, but most of them. And that helped quite a bit. And then Washington sent a message to General Lee, the guy that had the most troops north, and he advised him to move his army expeditiously to join forces with him for support. Lee basically ignored Washington's request at this critical time and sent excuses as to why he could not respond. This initiated a long-running series of disagreements and disappointments with General Lee. which eventually led to his insubordination and ultimately is captured by the British. So we'll talk about that. So the chase through New Jersey started at the Hudson River on 20 November and extended to the Delaware River at Trenton, New Jersey, where Washington's forces crossed on 7 December. So this is, you know, about three weeks there. And during this chase, Washington repeatedly sent his aides and his subordinate commanders to Congress, along with various local leaders to inform them of the status of his army and to request more troops and supplies. And on 28 November now, when Washington was at New Brunswick, which is north of Trenton by about maybe 50 miles, he magnanimously sent his sick and wounded soldiers east to be protected in the American base in Morristown. So he's always thinking about his soldiers. That's what a good commander does, and not just himself, in the glory that he might get. So on 1 December, he ordered Colonel Richard Humptons with his 11th Pennsylvania Regiment to move to the Delaware River to collect and secure all the boats along the river. for about a 75-mile stretch along the Hudson River, paying particular attention to... The Hudson or the Delaware? The Hudson. I'm sorry, the Delaware. Okay. Yeah, thank you very much for clearing that up. The Durham boats, which he actually used during... the crossing of the river.
SPEAKER 02 :
Okay. Let's stop right there, Ben Martin. We're talking about Washington and what was happening around Christmastime in 1776. And the show comes to you because of all of our amazing sponsors. And one of those is La Vaca Meat Company.
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SPEAKER 02 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. And you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force. Force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And for this Christmas week, we are pre-recording some amazing guests and interviews. And I'm talking with Ben Martin. He is a patriotic historian, a former Army Ranger, a West Point grad. We're talking about Washington, George Washington, the Continental Army in November, December of 1776. And you said before we went to break. that Washington had Colonel Hamptons on December 1 go to the Delaware River and try to secure all of the Durham boats. So what happens then?
SPEAKER 13 :
All crap. But he was especially looking for the Durham boats because they were the heavy lifters. So he got down there the 1st of December, and he started doing this. And he not only tried to do it, he did a great job. There were no boats to be had along that river. When he got down with his troops during the first week of December, he, meaning Washington, he crossed the river. He had all these boats lined up for him. They were all there, so they could cross pretty easily. And he delayed the following forces from the Brits by cutting down trees along the pathways, destroying bridges and things like that to delay the— to delay the british coming down so he made it down there pretty easily crossed into the the uh... pennsylvania side across the river and that there was no there were no boats available anywhere for the british to to uh... comp problem across river because so he was pretty safe on the other side of the river down around trenton new jersey then for the southern part of new jersey and he was on the other side of the delaware west side so uh... During this time, the American government was getting really worried. So on 12 December, the Congress, as the enemy forces drew nearer to Philadelphia, they started abandoning, and they decided to grant Washington full power to order and direct all things relative to the operation of war for six months. And this is akin to what the ancient Romans did when they granted full power to a tyrant. for six months during these critical times of crisis, and most of the time it was caused by a military crisis. So on 12 December now, General Lee finally responds to Washington. Now, remember, Washington left the New York state and crossed the Hudson River around the 10th of November. So this is a month that he's been sending aides and messages to Lee to come to his support. And this is the first time Lee responded. So Lee finally responds to Washington's directive and ordered his forces to join them. But Lee did not lead them to Washington. Instead, he directed Major General Sullivan, another great commander, to march them there the next morning. So that would be the 13th of December. That night, Lee left. Now, this is what Lee was. This is kind of scoundrel he was. Lee left his main body of troops. He took his aides and some security forces to spend the night three miles away from his troops at a tavern. Can you imagine that during this critical time? And he wouldn't even go and face Washington. And that next morning, on 13 December, his guards were killed or wounded, and Lee was captured by the British forces of dragoons. And guess who was leading those dragoons? This guy named Bannister Tarleton that you heard about before. He was called Bloody Ban, in that he was the leader of the dragoons. So now I just want to tell you quickly, While he was captured for over a year, he was held by the British for over a year. And the thing that got him released, or one of the things that he did while he was captured, he gave the British forces a plan to defeat the American army.
SPEAKER 02 :
What a guy.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, just a great guy. And he was Washington's highest subordinate at the time. He was second in command. So on 14 December... Washington began holding war councils again with his generals to plan for a major stroke to the British forces. Now, the British are thinking he's running from them. He doesn't have any plans just to keep away from them. And Washington's thinking the whole time, I'm going to win. So he was planning a major stroke to the British forces. to reestablish the spree and confidence among his army and the American citizens. So on 20 December, Major General Sullivan marched into Washington's camp. Now this is 20 December, so that's 40 days since Washington had gotten into New Jersey. And so he marched Lee's forces in. Not surprisingly, the number of men was great that he had. You know, he had had the largest part of the forces that would divide it. they were greatly reduced because of desertion. On 22 December, General Gates, his other betrayal artist there, subordinate, he arrived with 600 New England troops. And although Washington requested, this is another commander, he said Washington requested him to help lead the coming attack. And although Washington requested his help, to lead this attack, Gates declined and hurried off to Congress. And you find out throughout his career in the Revolutionary War, he kept trying to undermine Washington, too, and become the sink. So they were both trying to become the commander in chief. And so they were doing things to undermine him and cause him to be unsuccessful, to cause Washington to be unsuccessful. So can you imagine that? What kind of a leader, a general no less, would disregard his commander in chief's request to take part in the critical battle and also leave his army to participate in that battle without him?
SPEAKER 02 :
Terrible.
SPEAKER 13 :
I mean, no responsibility whatsoever. So Washington's response to all of this, you know, when you think, oh, he's depressed, he can't do anything and stuff like that, his response is, we're going to win. So they fight the first battle of Trenton. And he uses as his challenge and password victory or death. That's how important he thought this was, you know, to turn the whole scope of the war around. So they leave that night on 25 December. with even greater resolve, called another council of war to continue planning the details of this attack, and the plan called for four separate American forces to cross the Delaware River on the night of Christmas night, the 25th of December, 1776. Two of these forces were to cross south of Trenton, and one was to cross right at Trenton, and all of these attacks were to support the main force, which was led by Washington, which was to cross nine miles north of Trenton, and move the army on foot down to attack the Hessians at Trenton. And that's another thing. The British didn't have their forces there. They sent these mercenaries, the German mercenaries down there, to be out at these outposts. And the British were back to the north part of New Jersey and in New York City. And to underline the seriousness with Washington regarding this operation, he established those words, victory or death, to make every one of his soldiers understand how critical this was. So on the night of 25 December, he had planned for four crossings. A blizzard hit the area. Winds picked up. Temperatures dropped dramatically. Snowfall and sleet intensified. Invisibility decreased. And the river became choked with chunks of ice. Dangerous. That night, only one of the four forces successfully crossed the Delaware. Of course, it was a main force led by Washington. That meant that they would not have the tactical benefit of any supporting attacks. He was on his own with his guys. This marked the inauspicious beginning of Washington's famous 10 days. However, there was a benefit to bad weather. The Hessians relaxed their security measures, confident that no American forces would would be able to cross the Delaware in these conditions. With great difficulty, the Army slowly crossed there, the Delaware River, skillfully transported by a colonel, he was then a colonel, not a general yet, John Glovers Marinus from Marblehead. These were the same intrepid folks that miraculously transported the Continental Army safely across the East River on 29 August when they were bottled up at Brooklyn Heights.
SPEAKER 07 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 13 :
He's an amazing man. Once all these soldiers, horses, and cannon crossed the river, a lot of them in those Durham boats, they were organized into two groups. One was led by Major General Sullivan, who we'd spoken about before, leading the group on the right down the river road. So they're going from north to south, basically. And General Green, Nathaniel Green, leading the group on the left, and they were further inland. And they went down the Pennington Road, and many of the soldiers had no boots and shoes, as we talked about before. And their paths were marked by the bloody stains that were left in the snow. So Major General Green's force arrived around 8 o'clock. Now, they were supposed to be there at 4 o'clock, but because it took so much time, with all the chunks of ice, the dangerous river, and no visibility. To get there, it took them a lot longer. So they got there at 8 o'clock. They were supposed to get there in darkness, but this was light now. Luckily, the German troops were still, a lot of them were still in bed. So he arrived there, and the northern part of Trenton is a lot higher, and you go downhill to go south, down to the rest of Trenton. So... He was on the north end of Trenton, and he divided his force, Green's force, into three columns to attack downhill into the town along King and Queen Streets. And the American artillery, a lot of which was being controlled by Hamilton, he put the artillery up on the top of the hill so he could fire down at the German forces, the Hessians. And so he was on the high ground so as to fire down. And then Major Sullivan's forces came up. Now, they were on the right next to the river. So they came into Trenton but on the riverside. And so they went down so that they were on the right side of the town, as you're looking from Washington's position. And he positioned himself along that town near the river and working some forces into positions on the south side. So they went all the way around the town. to block any of the people trying, any of the Hessians trying to escape. And they secured the Assenpunk Bridge, which is in the south side of town, and along the Assenpunk Creek, and blocked the Hessians from escaping. And once the Americans initiated the fight, it took one hour for them to work the surprised Hessians into being surrounded and then surrendering. It was a complete victory for the Americans. They suffered only four kills. and four wounded, while the Hessians suffered 20 killed, 80 injured, and 900 captured. And after the battle, although briefly considering continuing the operation to attack Princeton, Washington decided his army needed sleep and returned back to Pennsylvania, crossing the river again. And this time they used ferries, too. You know, they did. It was amazing. And then on 27 December, General Kaltwalzer, you were talking about the Marines, sent word that he had crossed Delaware onto the New Jersey side along with 1,800 men, including the Philadelphia Associators and two companies. And I've talked about this before with our Marine buddies. Two companies of newly formed Marines under the command of Major Samuel Nichols. This marked the first land battle for the newly formed Continental Marines.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, my gosh. Let's leave that as a cliffhanger then, Ben Martin. I'm talking with Ben Martin, patriotic historian, about George Washington and these critical 10 days in December of 1776. We'll be right back.
SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is kimmunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at kim at kimmunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We're an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through this lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something's a good idea, you shouldn't have to force people to do it. I'm talking with Ben Martin. We're pre-recording this for Christmas week. And, of course, we wish you a very Merry Christmas. And we're talking about George Washington and this time frame in 1776. So you mentioned December 27. So where do we go from here?
SPEAKER 13 :
So they had come back across the river. Remember the battle for the first battle of Trenton took place on the 25th and the 26th, over the 25th and 26th, crossing the river and doing that. And it was very successful. And Washington considered moving forward to take, to battle the troops, the British troops that were at Princeton. But he didn't do it on the consideration for his troops that had spent the whole night crossing the river, marching the nine, ten miles, nine or ten miles down to Trenton and fighting the battle. He said, okay, my guys are tired. I can't consider them fighting another battle, marching all the way to Princeton. So I'm bringing them back across the river, back to a safe area so they can rest up. And so they were doing that. So on the 25th of December, he called another council meeting and talked to his commanders, his subordinate commanders, and they all said, yeah, we're ready to go now. Let's go. But at the end of November, that's about a month since then, before then, Washington had lost over 2,000 soldiers because the term of their enlistments expired. So he was then scheduled to lose a like number at the end of December. So Washington sent a message to Robert Morris, who was considered the financier of the Revolutionary War. He's the richest man in America, and he lived in Philadelphia. He was a good friend of George Washington. So Washington just sent him a message down in Philadelphia, which is not that far away, to ask him to deliver $10,000 of silver coin to his army position so that he could encourage the soldiers to stay in the army for the Second Battle of Trenton and perhaps Princeton. Morris was a great patriot and the richest man in America, like I said, so He, in a short period of time, he collected that silver and sent it down to Washington. And this collection, this large amount of money in that time, in a short time, delivered to Washington. And that kept the soldiers in the Army for the next fight. So they crossed back over the river, the Delaware River, into Princeton, and they set up their defenses there. and they set them up on the south side across the Assenpunk Creek, which had one bridge that went from the town into the Assenpunk Creek, and that was a ridgeline there on the south side, and that's where he went in and he had some of his soldiers start making defensive positions there so he could continue the attack. But he knew that because he would occupy that area, And because he'd already won that battle, that the British would be coming down from their positions in Princeton and north of that, too, with forces to try to defeat the Americans who were in the town. And so this was a great time. He had everything set up, called Wallater, that I told you before, with the Marines and General Milfin's men, Thomas Milfin's generals, his men came in and so now he had approximately 6 800 men with 30 cannons so things were building back up again uh so washington conducted council of war and on 30 january and one or 30 january or 30 december 30 december and one january i'm sorry about those two okay to share intelligence and make plans for the coming thing so he did all this stuff but and then he brought uh these guys in that I was telling you about before called Wallader and those guys, and they had been in that area because they were from Philadelphia, so they were really close. And they had found these maps, and they were pretty familiar with the town, and they had found a way around the backside, or you would call it the south side, of Trenton to get to Princeton. So the The paths were really muddy and wet, and they were like, okay, we're not going to be able to get through this stuff. But Washington, being the farmer that he was, knew about the weather, knew that there was going to be a frost that night, a hard freeze, and that the mud and stuff would freeze and they would be able to travel. So he had his soldiers fake that they were there, just like they did at Brooklyn Heights. They built big fires. They made lots of noise to sound like they were all there preparing their positions for the battle tomorrow. Howe, who had come down to lead the troops, and Cornwallis. Now, Howe sent Cornwallis down there. And he had this, you know, he was so arrogant. He said, well, hey, look, let them do what they want to do. He says, I'll attack them in the morning. I'm not going to attack them at night. He had started attacking them, and the darkness fell. And they were in such a strong position, the Americans. that the British lost a lot of soldiers trying to cross the bridge. And so he said, we'll do it in the morning, you know, when it's light. And so while they were doing that and the fires were going on the American side, he started, he put towels and rags and stuff around the wheels and he started moving around midnight. Well, no, around really about 10 o'clock. And by four o'clock, he, four o'clock in the morning, he had all his troops down and they were headed to, down or up to Princeton, and the British didn't know anything about it. And the next morning, of course, they woke up, and there were no American troops there. So he had given them the slip again in the cover of darkness. It was just amazing in that he knew about what the weather was going to do and that it was going to freeze, and he planned for all this stuff. Just an amazing commander and a guy that really took care of his troops. And so they got there to Washington, and then, again, it was Green on the left and Sullivan on the right. And they were headed towards that, and they were on a ridgeline. They could kind of see what was happening. They could see Princeton, and then they could see what was happening along the Princeton Road, which was to their east, to their left, as they were marching up. And so... General Mercer, who was a really good friend, he was a Virginian, he was a doctor, he was a really good friend, he was a great commander, but he was also a really good friend, personal friend of George Washington. He takes off to the left to block the bridge that's on the Princeton Road to take care of that so that any troops that are coming from Trimpton up to counterattack them or those coming down from the north, Princeton, he was going to block that bridge. So he starts moving up, but he's in a valley, and he can't see anything, and he doesn't realize that the British have a big force up on the road, up higher than he is, and to his front, and he can't see them, and he's walking right into a trap. Washington and Sullivan, who are on a ridgeline headed to Princeton, turn around and see what's happening, And so they turn the force around. Now, when Mercer has a really small force compared to the British force that's on the road, Princeton Road, and he sees them, and they both start attacking each other. The British have their bayonets, and we don't have bayonets yet. And so they start attacking them, and the bayonet is the most dangerous weapon at that time, and it's scary. And so the Americans start breaking and running. So This is when Washington comes in, sees them, organizes the troops, and has them form a defensive line and start returning fire, not running away from them in haste. And they turn it around, and then Washington does this miraculous thing. He starts leading the force right at those British, and he gets within 30 yards of the British, and he's between the Americans and— forces and the British forces and he gives this command to fire he's right in the middle of the fire but they ultimately prevail we're just about out of time so they prevail they're miraculous he's standing there unscathed like he was in the British war during the French and Indian war when he was unscathed and everybody else was killed so I mean this just really inspires their confidence And they go on and they just, they run over the British. They take, you know, Sullivan's forces take Princeton. And then he has this one big decision to make. Am I going to go forward to the British, the big British force north of here that has, New Brunswick, that has all this money, British money and all these British supplies? Do I go after them and attack them with this force? Or do I go to Morristown? because my soldiers have been up again and they've been fighting all night. You know, they walked all night and marched all night quietly and everything like that. So he decides again, for the sake of his soldiers, to forego going to New Brunswick, and he goes to the safe area of Morristown. So that's the kind of guy he is.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, and so what's our quote for the end of the show, Ben Martin?
SPEAKER 13 :
The quote for the end of the show was made by General Dave Palmer. who was my history professor at West Point and later became the superintendent of West Point. And he said this, had Washington done nothing before or after those 10 days from 25 December 76 to 3 June, On 3 January, 77, he would still go down in history as one of history's greatest masters.
SPEAKER 02 :
Oh, my gosh. Ben Martin, thank you so much. Merry Christmas to you and yours. And my friends, Merry Christmas to you and yours. And we wish you a very great day.
SPEAKER 09 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
God created the universe in one day and will destroy it in one day. “Heaven and earth will pass away” (Matt 24:25). The body you have now won’t work in heaven. Your body is infected with sin just as the entire universe is infected with sin and that is why it must be destroyed. Satan goes all over the universe. “We fight spiritual wickedness in heavenly places” (Eph 6:12). Satan is a master deceiver with amazing deceptive abilities. If Satan could deceive one-third of the angels and convince them to follow him in rebellion against God in eternity past, imagine what he is doing now. Don’t ever think you’re a match for his brilliance. You need the Word of God in your soul to counter his deceptive abilities. “While you wait on these things, I command you to be diligent so that you will be found by Him to be in peace without spot and blameless” (2 Pet 3:11-14).
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