KLZ 560 AM DENVER'S CONSERVATIVE HOME STATION
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With Guest Host Pastor Bill Anderson
SPEAKER 05 :
This is Ready Radio, preparing you to be ready for anything, now. Here’s your survival guide for Ready Radio, John Rush.
SPEAKER 08 :
Good afternoon, Denver. John is out today, and I’m filling in for him. This is Bill Anderson, your prepping pastor, your modern-day Noah. We are live today. It’s April 25th. Give us a call, 303-477-5600, or you can text in on the text line, 307-200-8222. Well, we’re turning into spring, we think. It’s turning out to be one of those Indian winters, we’ll call it. You think you’re getting good with some great weather, then all of a sudden… Yeah, we get a cold front coming in. So everybody that has pre-planted their stuff, and now they’re shaking their head going, man, I wish I wouldn’t have done that. So always wait until after Mother’s Day, the rule is. But that seems so late. But, yeah, you can still get started indoors there with your plants and stuff. Hey, this Saturday I’ve got a Level 2 gun class coming up. It is already full, so it’s too late to get in. But we do have more coming up, and you can check out the schedule at prep2protectco.com. Prep2protect. And you can check out some of our level ones. A lot of people have been asking me lately about this whole change and what that means for them for the new and also the renewal of their CCW permits. So let me try to just explain it here real quick. The first thing is, is it doesn’t take effect until… July 1st. And so between now and then, you don’t have to take anything to the new standards. You can still do the regular old classes that they used to do before. And if you’re up for renewal, most counties between 90 and 120 days, you can apply for your renewal 90 to 120 days before expiration. So you’d have to check with your county, check with your sheriff, and But you can get that in. Even if your expires at the end of July, let’s just say, or even into August, you have 90 to 121 days, 120 days to get that done. So go ahead and pre-apply. Now, if you wait until after July 1st to apply, then you’re going to have to do the new class. So you can always email me or go to the website and send over a question. I can help you out. Check us out on the Facebook, the Instagram, the TikTok, and all that fun stuff. We’re all in there. All right. Well, today we have a special guest out of Castle Rock, Colorado, John Hatlett. John, how are you doing? I’m doing good, Bill. How are you? I’m doing well. So tell us a little bit about yourself for everybody listening.
SPEAKER 11 :
I am the owner of Rocky Mountain Self-Defense and Fitness. I also have our online training portal, clearsky.training, and we do self-defense. That’s our big thing. We also have a functional fitness side, but our main thing in our gym is self-defense and everything around that from the legal aspects to concealed carry to hand-to-hand training.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, and I think that’s very, very important, especially when it comes to the firearm consideration because a lot of people think, I’ve got a gun, I’m good. And as you and I weekly exercise and train and practice, yeah, that firearm is sometimes a liability more than an asset. Yeah?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, especially when you’re not justified to use it. That’s something. People find out all the time in our training because we really take that, you know, you have the fight and then you have the legal fight and potentially a civil fight after that and trying to train people to make those considerations that you can’t just blast away if you’re not justified. I mean, it’s got to be a justified thing, even just in my own head, for my own being. I don’t want to be wrong and have to live with that, you know, that decision of, not training enough. And that’s something we see all the time in our gym of people just going to the gun when they weren’t justified to go to the gun.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I think that’s something that the mindset of the firearms industry and the training program that a lot of facilities and groups and private trainers just put out there that, hey, we’ll just get out there, we’ll just show you some fun stuff, how to shoot at a paper target, and you’re good to go. A lot of people come to what I call my level one class, and my level one class, by the way, isn’t really a level one class. I have so many people that already have their permit that come to my level one class and they go, I already got my permit, but I’ve never shot a gun. And so I’m a little torn with this new requirement from Colorado because it does infringe on the Second Amendment rights, but it also helps get people trained because there’s nothing more dangerous than an untrained person out there.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, yeah, I’m very skeptical and not really liking what the state of Colorado is doing. I think it’s a big overreach, but… it does just like you said i do feel like people need more training they just get that and it’s it’s an easy button and unfortunately too many people want the easy button and that’s not how you get things done for real in my opinion yeah you got to put in the effort and and training is also a perishable skill as we’ve as we and i have been taught and have experienced you know if you’re not
SPEAKER 08 :
working on it continually and and testing things out and exploring things you know people are like oh i’ve got this gun i’ve got this holster and you know that completely changes when you’re all of a sudden rolling around on the ground with somebody and oh now your gun’s out you know and one of the things that we do in level two is we have a physical activity before you shoot and so many times people lose their gun in doing that physical activity so You know, you got to go through all these things to kind of test what’s going to work and what’s not going to work. And I think a lot of people are fooling themselves because they’re in theory only. You know, we were at a place yesterday and talking to somebody. And they were kind of showing us some stuff. And the first thing that went into my mind was this person is 100% all in theory. You know, he’s got this, he’s got this, he’s got this, he’s got this, he’s got this. And it’s like, have you ever used any of that stuff? How do you know it’s going to work? Not only is it going to work, but do you know how to operate it? Do you know what to do with that, you know, repair kit, that medic kit with the stuchers and all that stuff in there? I mean, I don’t know how to sew somebody up.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah. Yeah. Either do I. Not my specialty.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Yeah. So if somebody’s there, hopefully you can hand that off to them. But, you know, I think a lot of people get caught up in the preparedness realm. And that’s kind of what the show is based upon is is being ready and not only being ready for, you know, the doomsday apocalypse that, you know, honestly may never come. But, you know, we have we have, you know, local events. We could have a big snowstorm. We could have a big blizzard event. I don’t know, were you here in the 80s? You weren’t here in 82. You were still probably in Nantucket there.
SPEAKER 11 :
No, Nantucket Island.
SPEAKER 08 :
So I was here in 82 and we had a big snowstorm that basically shut the city down for, I think, three days. I don’t know. I think it was about 10 or so. But, you know, we could have one of those. We just recently had, you know, a big snowstorm out a couple of years ago out where I live. And, you know, people were standing on the road. So, you know, it may not be a global event. It may be a local event. It might even be a personal event, like you hurt yourself or you break your leg and you can’t walk. You lose your job, and now all of a sudden you’ve got this. You get a really bad disease or something, and you’ve got to work through that or whatever reason. So there’s different levels of… of what can happen to you as far as your doomsday or whatever. And a lot of people watch this stuff, listen to this stuff, read books, and they go, oh, that’s a good idea. Click, click, click, click, click. And they got all this stuff on their shelf. And then all of a sudden something happens and now they don’t know what they’re going to do with it or they’re going to misapply that. And then they’re going to actually be in worse shape or maybe even in a bad legal situation because they misapplied that.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, I mean, nothing, I think, can substitute live training and doing hands-on training. So many people, you know, we even see at the gym, you know, you get somebody highly intellectual, and they can understand that, but they cannot do that physically. And there’s so much stress involved, and it’s one thing of understanding it and having this book knowledge. That’s fantastic. But you’ve got to train. Like you said, it’s perishable. And there’s so many veritables that I really feel like so many people just fool themselves, especially these days. You know, oh, I watched that on YouTube. I’m good. And we know, you know, it’s 10,000 reps or more. And when you’re talking about assaults, you know, there’s so many veritables. Or like you said, we don’t know. what’s going to happen day to day, what kind of situation you could end up in. You know, people seem to be more irritated these days. And being able to defend yourself and your family, just, you know, on the side of the road, fixing a flat tire and somebody sees you as a victim. You know, having skills that you actually train is, I think, a necessary thing for everyone. We start little kids off at three and a half years old and they start learning to be a good person and when to use self-defense and that they have the right to defend themselves. That’s something the school systems really try to push out of these kids. So many kids don’t think they can even defend themselves.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I remember my my daughter, Ashley, who her birthday is tomorrow, actually. So happy early birthday on the air, Ashley. So, yeah, I remember when she was in junior high or maybe it was high school. I don’t remember. It was one of the somewhere around there, there over there in Castle Rock, actually. And there was a school girl that was bullying her. And we went and we talked to the principal. And I said, what are you going to do about it? Well, you know, we can’t really do much about it. So I turned to my daughter and I said, the next time she does that, I said, I want you to break her nose. And he goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We can’t do that. I says, you ain’t going to do nothing about it. We will, you know, and, uh, and that’s kind of the attitude I took. And, you know, of course I actually would never do that. She’s not that type of person, but she’s like, okay, you know, but there’s empowering in that, you know, you don’t have to be a victim.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes. I mean, It’s so important, I think, just overall for everybody, from kids all the way up, it’s so important to have confidence. And I think when you’re training how to defend yourself, it just gives you great confidence. You’re more apt to stand up for yourself at work or school when somebody’s taking advantage of you that way. And the schools don’t do anything, especially with our teenagers. We tell them, like, how does this make sense? You’re going to get in trouble. If somebody pushes and bullies you, if your mom or dad went in and pushed the teacher or the principal, what do you think is going to happen to your mom or dad one time? I mean, they’re so hypocritical. It’s ridiculous.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it’s one-sided for sure. You know, I remember I was talking to one of my granddaughters and I said, hey, don’t, you know, some boy was pulling her hair. And I said, well, first of all, that means he probably likes you. You know, he’s flirting with you. But, you know, these are tiny kids. But I’m just like, hey, pull his hair back. Oh, I can’t do that. I’ll get in trouble. And that’s the mindset that they instill in them. You know, you can’t defend yourself because you will get in trouble. And I think that leads us right into what we want to talk about today is because, you know, we we have two sides, two extremes, I would say, when it comes to to self-defense and justification for self-defense. One extreme is, well, I can’t retaliate. I got to be a victim. And the other is, is, well, I’m just going to destroy everybody. And, and, you know, we gotta be careful with that because, you know, when am I justified to defend myself and at what level of defense can I, can I use against somebody that’s, you know, maybe doing something about me? Yeah. So, and you, you have, um, um, some knowledge and some training in, um, the, the law of self defense. And so could you talk about that a little bit?
SPEAKER 11 :
Sure. Um, You know, and in my training from actually from the law of self-defense, he’s got a fantastic podcast. I did his instructor training, uh, for people like myself doing self-defense and it’s really added, you know, that’s the thing I think with all training, like you can always get better and you don’t want to sit back and post on what, you know, we’re always trying to get better at Rocky mountain. That’s, you know, one of my things. And we found that podcast kind of through our IDS training for concealed carry, which is a whole nother Avenue, but that’s a great podcast for anybody out there. Um, he’s actually here in Castle Rock for the time being. I heard he’s on a show is moving, but you know, you have, um, innocence, avoidance, reasonableness, proportionality, and eminence and, All of those, if you lose one of those, you lose your ground of self-defense. And I think, you know, one thing, especially for men that challenge another guy because you do self-defense and say something to the effect of like the old gunslingers, you know, go ahead, make my day. You’ve just engaged in mutual combat. You’re goading them on. to attack you that’s not self-defense and i think a lot of guys you know forget about that it’s it’s really easy you know you get all these movies and throughout time that you know what was that is that clint eastwood go ahead make my day yeah that’s not even like a john wayne movie that’s not even like old westerns but maybe it was john wayne i don’t remember i think it was clint eastwood that said that one i can’t remember i think you’re right i think you’re right but I definitely grew up watching a lot of Westerns with my dad and grandfather. So they can mess you up. There are so many things that people get wrong from movies and what they’re watching. Oh, it’s so easy, too. So that whole innocence is don’t start the fight. A person who is the initial physical aggressor in a confrontation is not the innocent party and cannot justify their use of force as self-defense. You know, you’ve got to be innocent. You can’t mutually, like actually the golf course fight that’s going around the Internet, you know, both guys are pushing and shoving. It gets really sketchy there of who’s innocent and, you know, what the witnesses are going to say. And, you know, that’s a whole other factor. You know, I don’t want to start a fight. I constantly, you know, I don’t want to fight. And I like what I tell our kids. that might not be going through my mind. I’m ready to defend myself and my family, but everything coming out of my mouth is stay away. I don’t want any trouble. Please don’t hurt me. I’m afraid. I’ll say all sorts of things like that. Of course, there’s time to posture up and stand your ground, but My initial reaction will be I don’t want to fight if it’s something that somebody didn’t just attack you. That’s a whole lot clearer when you get physically attacked.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, because that’s already go time, right? Once they attack you or whatever, there’s, hey, stop doing this. Stop choking me or stop hitting me. Yeah, whatever. So, I mean, there’s a fine line for that, right? But we’re talking about a threat and a lot of stuff. Is is, you know, mainly threats. We know through our training that, you know, statistically speaking, that most stuff is ambushed and you start to recognize patterns. And that’s the one thing that that you teach down there is is those kind of fight indicators, those things to look for. And, uh, you know, I think that’s very important. And I know in our training, we, we talk about looking, making them very exaggerative. And then as time goes on, we kind of, we kind of bring those down into what they would look like in real life, but you got to look at the, the really big picture first, and then, then it becomes subtle. Then you start to recognize it, um, from that quick thing. But, you know, we did, uh, in our level three, we did, um, a bunch of scenarios and, and people don’t understand and we’re just using airsoft guns and we got everybody’s got pads on and we’re you know we took the church out there and we turned it into a little shoot house and we ran i don’t know five or six scenarios i can’t remember but uh we had one scenario where they had to walk down i don’t know a hallway like like 10 feet it wasn’t even that that far and it was mocked up as a house and everybody’s going through the bedrooms and clearing the bedrooms and And this is a drill that you will appreciate because you and I actually did this drill in Las Vegas. We were the bad guys, if you will, during the group exercise. And I repeated that drill at the church. You know, I’m hitting them with a stick or whatever it is. It wasn’t a real stick. It was a mocked up stick. But they’re clearing the house and they’re going room to room instead of just running right to the to the person yelling. And it’s like my daughter was one of them. And she’s like, are you coming yet? I think I’m dead already. You know, it’s just like a person, you know, but they walked 10 feet, John, and they were out of breath. They were like, and they didn’t run. And it’s like, it just goes to show you that, you know, it’s not always physical, it’s stress. So when we come back after break, John, I want to talk about maybe we can drill into these innocents and the eminence and the, you know, proportionality and all that stuff that you talked about with the law and self-defense. So we’ll catch that after the break. Give us a call at 303-477-5600. If you’ve got any questions, this is 560-KLZ.
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SPEAKER 08 :
All right, welcome back. This is Bill Anderson in for John Rush this week. And we’re talking to John Hatlett down at Rocky Mountain Self-Defense out of Castle Rock. John, let’s, before we get into the law things, I know I said we were going to talk about that when we got back. We’ll hit those here in just a second. But let’s talk about the difference between self-defense and sport. Because, you know, I talk to a lot of people and they’re like, oh, I do karate or I do BJJ. And nothing against those, but they’re completely different than what we do.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, like, you know, we always, you know, our foundation at the gym is Krav Maga, but, you know, we’ve evolved that tremendously, adding in, you know, our Citizen Defender program and everything else. And, you know, sport is one thing. There’s a referee there, you know, and you agreed upon, you know, even just going to the class that you were going to go around and do a free roll and, you know, or free sparring in a class. You know, self-defense is unpredictable. You have no idea when. You might have just done a hard fitness class and you get attacked. It is so different. I mean, there’s things that we borrow from that are practical. I would never take away anything from any martial art. There’s great things in all martial arts, but then it just comes down to what’s your real focus. Is it competition? You know, because training with a gun, especially, I mean, I felt… Myself, we were looking for somebody like Todd Fossey and IDS for years because the room clearing stuff is great, but I don’t think that’s high probability for me. We’re looking for civilian type of things. And my hand-to-hand experience, I thought, I’m really good. I can defend myself hand-to-hand, but not carrying that gun on me when I was training is not realistic. And that’s part of our Peaceful Warrior program, that people that are ready to integrate hand-to-hand and concealed carry, that they’re training with it daily, and you have that gun on you. And it can be really easy to, under stress, to forget you had that gun on you, and you lose concealment, and they see the gun, and now they’re going for your gun.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right, right.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s a whole different animal than… A sport. There’s no tapping out there. Chances of you losing your weapon and them using it on you is extremely high. I think the last stat I saw a bunch of years ago was in the high 80s, and that was for trained law enforcement losing their firearm, never mind the civilians.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, yeah, I remember when we first got started in this, we used to take each other’s gun all the time. It’s like, oh, and there it goes, oh, and there it goes. Not so much anymore, but when we first started, it was tough, it was tough, and I think that’s a false mindset that people have. I’m good. I got the gun. They don’t consider where they carry it. You know, it’s on my ankle. It’s, you know, in my vest. It’s here. It’s there. It’s like, okay, well, how can you access that? And can you lose it? Or do I carry it in my back, you know, at the belt? It’s all very important things to consider. It goes back to that same thing we talked about at the very beginning of the show here where you got to test these things out because you don’t know. In theory, it sounds great, but you don’t know what it’s going to actually do when you’re out there working. So, yeah, self-defense is a different animal than sports. And those things are good. I mean, there’s value in those things. But they’re just, they’re not the same. They’re not the same at all. And what are you trying to do here? What are you trying to accomplish? Could, you know, learning BJJ help you? Yeah, but statistically, how many fights end up on the ground? Now, there’s a false with that. There’s a false statistic out there that was used to promote the BJJ sport. But, I mean, you know, a lot of fights don’t actually end up on the ground. So what good is that ground fighting skill going to do for me, you know, if I don’t go there, you know?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, it’s a great skill. I mean, we train our, you know, a handful of our instructors train with a BJJ black belt every week. You know, it’s a valuable thing. So if you’re out there, don’t think we’re, you know, hoopooing any type of martial art or BJJ. I think it’s fantastic. It’s just different from what my focus is and what my gym’s focus is, is self-defense. And, you know… People forget, you know, hey, if you’re putting me in a triangle choke or me in an arm bar, I might be legally justified in that, you know, simple assault, you know, that you’ve now turned it into an aggravated assault. And I might be justified to do more or my family member might be justified to do more to you because you have me in a compromised position, you know, especially a carotid choke where you may go unconscious. Let alone your arm being incapacitated.
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s a great segue. So let’s go into that a little bit. What’s the difference between a simple assault and an aggravated assault? Because I think a lot of people don’t understand. They don’t understand the difference. The terms are thrown out there. They’re thrown out there loosely because people really don’t know what they are. So what’s the difference?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, so your simple assault… Threatening or attempting to hurt someone or lightly hurting someone, like a shove or a slap, like what we just talked about in that golf course. It starts off as mutual push or a light hit, something that’s not going to cause serious injury. And then you kind of move up to assault with injury, which is a misdemeanor or a felony, actually hurting somebody but not causing serious bodily harm. punching someone or giving them a black eye or you know a small cut um like you did to me the other day i think i got the cut on my neck i showed you proof yeah you got a cut i got a little black eye i never saw the proof so no proof there is no proof didn’t see it um so um People forget, you know, we have people that shoot somebody over a slap, never mind, you know, a punch or, you know, giving them a black eye type of punch that’s, you know, hitting harder, but potentially, you know, not dropping to the ground or something like that. You know, you have assault with a deadly weapon. I think that’s fairly simple, right? Using or threatening to use a weapon, knife, gun, bat, hammer, whatever you may have. um, in there. And then you have aggravated assault, which is a felony assault that causes serious physical injury or involves a weapon. You know, somebody is threatening you with a stick or somebody has me in a knee bar, shoulder lock, Kimora, you name it. This is all justification for me to do more to defend myself. You know, we could have ramped all the way up from the simple assault to this aggravated assault. Once somebody gets me in that compromised position and they kind of forget and they go into sport mode and you gave me justification to do more to defend myself. I mean, we, there was a video floating around the internet in the last year or so of a guy that had a gun at a, like a community pool. I think he was kind of brandishing it or like at least, exposing it in his backpack, and then two guys confronted him, and long story short, you know, he ends up in the pool, and they’re, in my opinion, like, gosh, they might drown this kid. They’re pushing him underwater. He’s not doing good. It’s two on one. There’s a big size difference. You know, he was justified to go to a knife fair or Maybe his loved one felt in fear, and they defended because they were in fear of their spouse or boyfriend or their friend being drowned by these two bigger men. Are they going to get in the pool with them and try to haul them off? I mean, some people might, but it could lead to you being in a real compromised position as well.
SPEAKER 08 :
A lot of these things, when you talk about stuff like that, how quickly it escalates. And now we go back to your original point of, hey, I’m not interested. I’m not interested in this because, you know, a word can become a push. A push can become a punch. A punch could become a full-on fight. A fight could come on to exposure of a weapon. And all of a sudden it’s like, how did we get there so fast? You know, and the saying is, is the only fight I can guarantee to win is the one I don’t get in. But I think that’s such a hard thing, you know, for us to to really understand. And I know even through like I’ve seen it over and over and over again and I can speak to it personally. In my Krav Maga career, you get started in it, you get your first couple of belts and you’re like, okay, I’m pretty awesome. I wish somebody would come and test me. And you get through this mindset of like, yeah, come on, let’s go. And then all of a sudden you hit your black belt and you realize, I don’t want to get in a fight. But you have that transition time where you get a little bit of knowledge and And the Dunning-Kruger effect, as we know it to be, you get a little bit of knowledge and all of a sudden you think you’re an expert at something. And, you know, we walk around with egos and then we’ve got, like you said, movie characters we got to try to live up to or we’ve got, you know, video games that we got to live up to. Not our age, our age. I mean, I guess there are some people that play video games, but I don’t. But, you know, you’ve got that going on in people’s heads to this false reality of what they see versus this isn’t what really happens. And then they think they have to act a certain way. And man, all of a sudden now everybody’s life involved just changed.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, I think that’s something for everybody out there to, you know, go Google GTS. That stuff is amazing. the Dunning-Kruger effect because it’s so prevalent out there in so many aspects of life. Just a little bit in that simple, you know, the simple, the beginner martial artists that they want to test their skill and they want to, you know, see how, you know, tough they are. I’m like, that’s for rolling around on the mat and, you know, doing stand-up sparring, whatever you’re doing. You know, that’s the place to test it. Out on the street, you know, a simple thing, you think you’re, you know, Mr. Macho Man, and somebody pulls a knife and they just nick your carotid, and now you’re bleeding out because, you know, you wanted to test your skill. And, you know, that’s something we got from our IDS training at Todd Fossey was, you know, the big reasons – convicted, uh, murderers were in jail. I think it was a small, I don’t know how big of a study it was, but I think it was out in California prison system that why did you kill? Why, why are you in here? And big one, big two were, I was insulted or I was challenged. And we know from our training at the gym, how many times somebody will challenge the person attacking them or confronting them, they will do one of the two things so many times. And that’s something we’re drilling and trying to train out of. Like, hey, you just insulted this guy. You just challenged him. I think, you know, one of the latest ones, you know, a guy just shoved a guy back and said, stay back. Right. You know, it’s good, but I’m like, you just, like, there’s a time for everything, I would say. Right. You know, I never say something’s completely wrong, but in some degree, you know, you did just put hands on a guy that hadn’t put hands on you. Yeah, you now elevated the fight. So that might have just elevated it right there versus, you know, maybe saying something to the effect of, like, I don’t want to fight. I’m afraid of you. You’re a big guy. You know, something that’s going to stroke their ego. Like, who cares? I just want to go home to my family. Right. Who cares? I’ve died enough in training. I don’t want to die for real. I know I am a human being, and no matter, you know, 30 years of training, that I still die in training. I still get caught. You still get stabbed. All sorts of bad things happen to you when you train. It really makes you, you know, want to train more and, you know, only have to use it if you’re absolutely… It’s absolutely necessary.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. It’s like an insurance policy. You know, that’s kind of how I look at it. You know, it’s like, hey, I got car insurance in case I get in a wreck. I got, you know, house insurance in case something happens to the house. Well, I’ve got flight insurance in case, you know, something happens there, too. You know, self-defense insurance, you can call it there. What’s that story with that MMA champion that got somebody broke into his house? Now, we’re talking about an MMA champion who’s in the octagon.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, he was in the UFC, yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, what’s the story on that? Because he fought that guy for how long?
SPEAKER 11 :
I forget exactly how long. I don’t want to get it wrong, but it was more than five minutes. It was more than ten minutes, I believe.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wasn’t it like 45 minutes or something like that?
SPEAKER 11 :
It was something crazy, like… 30 40 yeah i mean it was something actually that day we were talking about it i never had time to go back and like oh yeah i want to i want to look at that story again that’s okay it’s all fake news again because it’s been a couple years yeah never happened but you know he broke into the wrong guy’s house but he didn’t end that quickly i mean we all hear you know the stories that you know whatever it is that somebody handled somebody because of their karate their BJJ, whatever it may be, their boxing skills, whatever it is, those are the easy ones. And some guys are great. I hate to use the word lucky, but your skill was just enough for that person. You know, what if they’ve got more training and so on and so forth? That gets really tough.
SPEAKER 08 :
My dad had a saying. He said, you know, you could think you’re tough, but there’s somebody out there that’s tougher. You just don’t know when you’re going to meet them, you know.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, there’s always somebody.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, I just had a quick question on that first thing, and we’ve got to get into these topics here before we wrap up. One thing that I was curious about as you were kind of going through that list a second ago, oh, what if they just pushed you? What if they push you and you fall down and hit your head and die? I mean, you think a push is just a simple assault, but that could be deadly.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I mean, there is that. factor of somebody being extremely big and, you know, a big disparity in size. We had a woman that my wife works with out in Elizabeth get pushed down. I forget what part. It wasn’t out in Elizabeth, but it was somewhere, you know, South Denver that she got into, you know, altercation over parking at this grocery store and the younger guy pushed this woman down and she was kind of very small. And I think, you know, getting in her sixties or, you know, getting really close to her sixties and split her head open things, you know, those are tough, you know, and it’s, Hey, it was just a simple push. And that’s something we’re constantly going, you know, you’ve got to make that call to, for yourself. And that’s, you know, knowing, I always say, you know, do the matrix thing and going to that guy’s way too big for me to put a triangle in. I can’t, I’m not going to be able to triangle choke this guy. That’s not the tool for the toolbox. I’ve got to do X, Y, and Z to get away from this person. But knowing that is really hard. That’s where it gets, you know, tricky. Like we were talking about, you know, somebody being on blood thinners and now they’re more compromised to, you know, a punch there’s all of those personal considerations and you know it’s like what you said um about the insurance policy it’s the the prepper mindset you know two is one and one is none and how many people do we have that have zero right hand-to-hand skill or my one of my favorites um i should do a top 10 list um is you know oh i got in a fight in high school OK, great. How old are you? You’re 40. You’re 50. OK, great. So you got in a fight in high school.
SPEAKER 08 :
Fantastic. Yeah. And people that are our age in high school, there was kind of a moral set of rules that most everybody kind of, you know, kind of abided by. So, hey, we’ve got to catch another break. But when we come back, I definitely want to talk about those four things from the law of self-defense. So 560 KLZ, we’ll be back after the break.
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SPEAKER 08 :
All right, welcome back. And today we have with us John Hatlett from Rocky Mountain Self-Defense. John, before we continue on here, tell folks how they can get a hold of you or maybe come down and try a class.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yep, they can check our website, which is Rocky Mountain Self-Defense and Fitness. I won’t give you a hard time about your ice cream and the fitness side of the gym. Our website is rmsdf.com. You can give us a call or text at 720-504-5959.
SPEAKER 08 :
Got it. Yeah. You know, you can’t give me a hard time about ice cream because I’m pretty sure it’s one of the unofficial food groups. It’s unofficial.
SPEAKER 11 :
You’re stocking up just in case there’s, you know, we lose the grid and you got some extra poundage there to do it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. I’m storing calories, you know. Yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
But no, in all seriousness, you have come so far and I can’t even remember how many years. We’ve known each other now, and you’ve been training at the gym and now become a coach. Gosh, you have transformed yourself. It’s an amazing story.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I’ve got this picture with me and my daughter at a Cirque du Soleil, and I show people that, and they’re like, that’s you? I’m like, yeah, that was me. It wasn’t just a puffy shirt either.
SPEAKER 11 :
It wasn’t just a puppy shirt.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. So you briefly mentioned the things with the law of self-defense. Four topics there that you kind of went over. Let’s just hit those real quick so that people understand. Because there’s got to be some kind of meat on the bone there when you’re coming to a self-defense situation and expecting to defend yourself. Because everybody’s like, oh, it’s self-defense. And it’s like, well, but there’s other things. that have to be a play there in order for it to, I guess, quote, qualify for self-defense. So let’s go over those.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, to go over the five again, innocence, avoidance, reasonableness, proportionality, eminence. And, you know, we talked about innocence, avoidance, you know, so many people feel, you know, I can stand my ground. And yes, in a lot of states, but From my mindset, if I can get out of there and avoid the legal aspects of using force against somebody, especially when you’re talking about the firearm, never mind punching or kicking somebody or choking somebody, restraining them, and they end up with a physical injury that’s lifelong or whatever. If I can avoid it, I want to avoid it. And that’s something that could come up in that civil trial. Hey, could you have retreated? And that’s something, as we know, is extremely hard when you get live and, you know, or, you know, even just in our training lives that, you know, things just can go out the window and you can forget where the door is and, you know, trying to get out the door. How many times have we seen people have trouble just getting out of the gym door that they come in and out of weekly and that slows you down? Um, And, you know, like I say, sometimes you can’t avoid it. You know, you tried, and running is not the best defense because you’re going to get caught. It’s so tricky. There’s so many aspects and so many scenarios that can happen to you. You know, making good decisions, reasonableness. You know, what is the common person going to do is what they’re going to bring up, right? You know, was that too much force to use against that person? You know, could it have been, like you said, a simple shove or do I need to punch that guy? Because I might, you know, shove a guy and now he’s coming back and it’s really on. Maybe it needed to be a punch. Making good decisions and knowing yourself is huge. That’s extremely difficult.
SPEAKER 08 :
Now, do you think that the old adage of I’ve heard this a lot? Well, if you go get trained, they can use that against you. Well, you’re a you know, you’re a Krav Maga specialist. So, you know, that now is a deadly weapon. Your skill set is a deadly weapon. It’s like I remember Neil Linsom. I have special skills, you know, it’s taken movie or whatever it is, you know. So could, you know, training come against you?
SPEAKER 11 :
Um, you know, those lawyers, you know, they’re tricky though. There, there was a case of a guy that, um, I forget he was doing MMA. He was working, you know, working out in MMA gym, which probably stand up and ground. Um, he, uh, I think he was, uh, was he a security guard or something? And they tried to say, you know, he was trained and, you know, they brought in his coach and basically said, you know, this guy’s a newbie beginner. He’s terrible. Um, it doesn’t matter. You know, this guy’s no good. Um, that’s tough. You know, they, you know, knowing when, you know, sometimes I’ll use the, uh, You know, hey, you just did this and this to somebody. You know, you’re showing proficiency. Did you need to stomp on their head? You know, maybe they’re going for a knife and you needed to do that. That is such a tricky, you know, and every situation is different. And that’s always tough, I think. But they could definitely try to use it against you. But I would rather have it on my side than be untrained. You know, that’s like what a horrible thing. you know, excused, not trained of going, somebody’s going to leave it, use that against me. They’ll use everything against you. You know, it seems like you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Why did you carry the gun? You put the gun on looking for trouble. I mean, you hear of all those kind of, yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, those kind of things.
SPEAKER 08 :
And that’s why we go back to that. That’s why we continue to go back to just run. I mean, not run, but just don’t get in the fight. Avoid it at all possible. You know, I’m going to avoid the fight at all costs, but if the fight comes, I’m going to win the fight at all costs. That’s kind of my little motto there that I’ve kind of come up with. But, yeah, that’s a spooky situation, right? So you’ve got the innocence and the eminence, right? Talk about that a little bit because that means that, you know, hey, the time’s urgent. It’s going to happen. I need to do something sooner than later.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I mean, proportionality, you know, just I go to the kids’ class and go, well, you know, somebody hits you with a feather pillow and, you know, you’re going to smash them back with a rock. That’s not really the meeting force situation. with equal force. Of course, we get down the rabbit hole of size and everything else, but it’s a feather pillow. That wasn’t a deadly threat. But imminence, gosh, could you just get away? I’m going to go to my trunk and get a bat and I’ll be back in 15 minutes for you, Bill. you know, doesn’t give you justification to shoot me right then and there. It has to be a threat that is standing in front of you. I’ve got the bat and I’m telling you and acting that I’m going to, you know, hit you with that deadly weapon. And as we know in our training that, you know, going to the gun at the wrong time when you are in hand to hand range can equal you getting hit in the head with that bat. You know, that’s, You know, several of our guys are extremely proficient with firearms and have done a lot of firearms-only training, and they get caught up going for the gun when they’re in hand-to-hand range. And going to the gun was a mistake because, you know, you’re getting hit in the head, you’re getting cut in the neck, and not making a hand-to-hand defense. And, you know, a lot of times we go, okay, great, you’re dying and he’s dying.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
How’s that for you? You’re both lost. for yourself and everyone else around you. It’s not always the tool for the job.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. It’s a tool, but it’s not the universal tool, right? And, you know, most assaults happen, right, what rains zero to six feet. And it’s like, man, if you’re pulling a gun at zero to six feet, one or two things are going to happen, right? If I’m seeing you pull a gun, either I think I’m going to take it to use it against you, or I’m going to take it so you don’t use it against me. And you don’t know what’s going through the thought process of that other person. But It could be a valid point that they’re just trying to take it so that you don’t shoot them. And so it’s not always like I’m going to take it to shoot you. I’m going to, you know, I’m worried about me. But the hand to hand is is probably a statistically speaking more vital skill than than the gun or knife. Right. You’re more likely to be attacked. with a screwdriver or some kind of an impact weapon way before a knife or a gun and before that you’re probably gonna be faced a sucker punched before even a weapon comes out so you know we’re all geared up on gun training and all suited up and all this stuff but and you’re probably more likely to get sucker punched than any of those things and so what’s your hand-to-hand skill level looking like yeah that’s why i mean we already said there’s not enough time in the day to train all the things
SPEAKER 11 :
you know, that we do at the gym from stand up to ground to, you know, getting ambushed and getting bear hugged or choked from behind, whatever it may be. There’s just so many things that can happen to you. And, you know, I think having a good, fun environment and good people and, you know, it’s fun to, you know, know and empower yourself that, okay, hey, I got jumped. I’ve got some skills in the toolbox if that happens. You know, those ambushes are, you know, so… what’s the word, unknowing, you know, and what the person does next. And, you know, that’s where our training ramps up. We start off simple and easy for people, and then it gets okay. Great, you escaped the bear hug, but now they’re going to clinch fight you, and building all of those skills takes time. And that’s, you know, what I would say, it’s not an easy, feel-good self-defense course that, you know, on my top ten list of, like, I did a self-defense course in college. Right. Great.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right, right.
SPEAKER 11 :
I don’t care if it was six hours. I know personally if I’m in – I have – video and our instructors usually have video of the training that we did. If it wasn’t for that video, I forget 90% of what we did because it’s so exhausting in that day. It comes back to you, but man, you’re trying to, like, little nuances in a technique. It’s difficult. We always say, you know, train more, suck less.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, right, right. That’s a saying my wife can’t stand. She’s like, I can’t stand when John says suck less. I said, well, you’re missing the whole point. One more time, John, how can people find out more about you and maybe come try out a class?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, we’d love to have you family-friendly from little kids on up. So it is rms.com. DF.com, Rocky Mountain Self-Defense and Fitness. We’re right off a Wolfensberger exit off I-25, and you can give us a call or text at 720. 504-5959. All right.
SPEAKER 08 :
I still appreciate it. All right. Sounds good. Thanks for joining us today. All right. Yeah. So it’s important folks that you understand training, training, training, and it doesn’t have to take a lot of time because a lot of people are like, Oh my gosh, I don’t have time for this. Now you want to add something else. It’s like I talk about in my, in my firearms courses, you know, 90% of your training should be and can be done at home with dry fire exercises. It’s just getting the reps in, you know, 15 minutes here or there. It’s really, really good stuff. So next week, John will be back, but I am going to go to the Batcave now. I got to go fix what he messed up. So we’ll see you when I get back. Thanks for joining us, Denver.
SPEAKER 02 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
