KLZ 560 AM DENVER'S CONSERVATIVE HOME STATION
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In this episode of Ready Radio, host John Rush is joined by electrical expert Bill Anderson to shed light on prevalent electrical risks in modern homes. They unravel the intricacies of underground services, outlining potential hazards posed by ground settling and ways homeowners can fortify their properties with preventative measures. As they delve into these critical topics, the conversation naturally shifts to the importance of routine inspections and maintenance programs that could spare homes from unwelcome fires and electrical failures.
SPEAKER 07 :
This is Ready Radio, preparing you to be ready for anything.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, here’s your survival guide for Ready Radio, John Rush. And it’s Ready Radio, KLZ 560. Thank you all again for listening. A fine Friday, October the 3rd. If you’re listening to a replay show, you know what day it is. Bill Anderson with me in person today. Normally calls in on the phone, but he was not far away, so… So welcome. You got his mic up, Charlie. There we go. That’s better. There we go. Yeah, that’s better. Now I can hear myself. Yeah, now I can hear you. So just down the road and stopped in. So we got Bill for the hour, meaning it’s a little easier if you guys have a question, you want to call in on anything, it’s a little easier when Bill’s here in person. So if you’ve got especially an electrical question on any level, we’re going to talk a little bit about that because somebody actually sent me an email or a text message, I should say, asking a couple of things that Bill and I will cover here to get started before we kind of continue in with what we were talking about Last week, so if any of you have a question, 303-477-5600. Don’t forget the text line, 307-282-22. So, Bill, we talked about this a little bit before coming on air, but I had a question that came in, more of a comment and maybe something that folks ought to be more prepared for because things at home can happen. And this is not having to do with sort of that – you know the lights are out into the world sort of thing this is just sort of common things that folks might want to check on on just a routine basis and i’ll get your opinion on how often this should be done but somebody said probably in your field the electric field the electrician field Seeing this happen around the Denver metro area, there’s been several fires in Douglas County from ground settling, pulling the mains, the main line coming in, power line coming in, over time until they fail and start a fire. Now, this, of course, would be underground, typically not overhead lines, which a lot of the newer neighborhoods now, as you know, Bill, have been laid bare. So now we use an expansion sleeve on the PVC riser. He sent me a couple of different articles of where this is happening around the country. It’s not just a Colorado thing. This can happen pretty much anywhere. So first off, explain what he’s talking about.
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So the service underground, the riser is what we call it. The lateral would be the overhead wires. So the underground service comes from the transformer, which is usually shared within your neighbors. Usually it’s in the corner of one person’s property.
SPEAKER 06 :
How many different houses does that typically feed?
SPEAKER 08 :
Typically about three or four, depending on the size of the transformer. But typically it’s about three or four, and we also call them pedestals. They can be called pedestals. Okay. So from there, it branches over to each individual house, and that is done underground. Code today is that that wire has to be deep, 24 inches deep from the top of the wire. And then you come up, and when you come up out of the ground, you have to protect that wire. So usually what we do is we just put a piece of Schedule 82-inch PVC wire um going from the ground and it is just a sleeve because you are dealing with direct berry wire that wire does or that pipe does not go any further than maybe a few inches down into the dirt okay so it’s not buried even 24 inches down no no it might be might be close to it but remember that wire which is typically like a four odd aluminum triplex there’s three wires in there And then it comes up, and the bending radius of that is not a sharp corner. So it’s going to sit up a little higher than the 24 inches to the top of the wire. And that’s basically a sleeve that protects the wire up into the meter housing. Now, theoretically, what you have is that sleeve has to be supported. So you’d have what’s called a mineral lacquer, mini for short. And that’s supporting that pipe, that sleeve, to the house. And so if there’s any movement, that wire should ride within that pipe, theoretically, because there’s no connection, depending on how deep the wire is. Now, if you go in there and pour a concrete slab, now that slab or that sleeve is going to be locked in place. And so if your concrete now starts to settle, it’s going to pull that pipe out.
SPEAKER 06 :
Or depending upon how the compaction around that pipe, even on regular dirt might be, if the dirt settles, it might even pull that as well, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
It might even pull it down.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. So we, by code now, have to put in what’s called a slip sleeve. Some people call it an expansion joint or whatever, but it’s basically a larger piece of PVC that rides over the top of that PVC.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
So that it can go up and down.
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So nothing gets exposed.
SPEAKER 08 :
Nothing gets exposed and it can kind of ride, if you will. But what people forget is that’s just the conduit. The wire is the issue. If that wire is settling, who cares if you’ve got a slip sleeve or not? It makes no difference, right? It’s going to pull down on that wire. So if you don’t have a good what we call service loop, in Excel they have a thing called the Blue Book. That’s the utilities code book. It’s different than the NEC. They follow the Blue Book. And in the Blue Book, there’s a way that you have to land those wires.
SPEAKER 06 :
Loop it, basically. Give it some slack.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, give it some slack so that when it does settle, it should pull down. on that loop if you will instead of pulling directly on the wire that’s pulling on the lugs that then can cause issues and get loose and so on right or if that pipe pulls out completely and now you have you know that can that metal exposed can there you could get the wire right rubbing rubbing on that and you could get you know where you cut into the insulation and now you’ve got sparks and a fire and so on and all that fun stuff okay
SPEAKER 06 :
So point being, I think what this particular texter was saying is, A, make people aware of this. B, how often should these sorts of things be inspected around your house?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, if you’re around your panel, just look at it. I mean, you’ll be able to see if it’s pulling down. And I don’t think it’s going to be something that’s going to happen overnight. It’s going to be a long-term process.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
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Unless you’ve got a sinkhole.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, unless you’ve had some drainage issues or something like that that all of a sudden cropped up, then that could cause an immediate problem.
SPEAKER 08 :
It could. You know, if you have a gutter that’s draining right along your foundation. that starts to wash that away or whatever there’s somebody left the hose on kids were playing lots of variables all sorts of things that can happen right lots of variables so you know just when your neighbor puts a different slope in their yard that maybe runs over to yours and maybe that’s on the side of the panel i mean those are the sorts of things you got to be paying attention to those are the things you look at yeah yeah and this is where you know some people may or may not you know agree with with like a maintenance program we we have a maintenance program where We combine the electrical with the HVAC and we’ll come once a year and we’ll. You know, look at your system. You know, right now we’re going through a lot of furnaces. We’re doing a lot of furnace inspections, tune-ups we call them, to get people ready for the winter. Because, you know, when the first freeze, that’s when the phone blows up. And if, depending on where you are on the line, that’s when we’ll get to you. And so, you know, a good 90% of these problems can be avoided if you just get a regular tune-up. We come in there, we clean the furnace, we… clean the igniter, we do a quick combustion check, we make sure everything’s good to go. On a furnace, there’s really only about a handful of things that can go wrong. can go wrong with it. And so we check those things to make sure it’s good. We fire up your furnace, make sure your thermostat, you know, check your batteries in your thermostat. People tend to forget that. Change the filter, all that fun stuff. And then, you know, on the electrical side, there’s really not a lot you can do for electrical maintenance. But what we’ll do is we’ll open up your panel, we’ll retorque all your neutrals, all your breakers, uh, kind of clean some stuff out of there. You know, there’s really no, you know, testing of breakers. Uh, you can’t really do that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. Breakers are breaker. Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s either going to do a job or it’s not going to do the job. And the only way to test it, if it’s going to do its job is to make it do its job. And then every time you do that, it gets weaker. Right. So that’s where, you know, a lot of real estate agents are like, Hey, certify the panel. I can’t do that. Right. I can’t do that. Only the manufacturer can certify a breaker. but you know there’s things we can go in there we can we can look for discoloration we can check you know heat sources if there’s any hot spots in there we can see if there’s any tension on any of those wires so so we can do that i mean if you’re if you’re fairly comfortable if you’re fairly handy you can do it okay you know just kill the main breaker and all those breakers below will be We’ll be dead, and you can go with a screwdriver and just make sure they’re all good.
SPEAKER 06 :
One thing you probably don’t want to be doing is messing with the main power lugs coming in, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, that comes off of the meter, and depending on what your utility is, you, by law, cannot get into that meter. If you’re with Core or Intermountain, if you open up that meter seal and you pull that meter, they actually get a trigger alarm, and they will pull up on you, and they will fine you. They’ll fine you $200. For breaking that seal. And that’s for your protection, right? Not only that, but what people do is they’ll bypass the meter and steal electricity.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
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We didn’t give anybody that idea, but that’s what they do.
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t know why you’d want to. I mean, I get it. But the danger side of that, to me personally, not worth it.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s usually the people that are growing illegal things in their basement. So they’re not really concerned about that anyway.
SPEAKER 06 :
The safety issue is not a big issue? They’re already out on the edge. Okay, I get it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, because, you know, when you plug in a whole bunch of high bait, you know, all of a sudden you get this huge spike in your electrical bill.
SPEAKER 06 :
And that’s a signal to the authorities that, hey, something’s going on there that probably shouldn’t be. Yeah, and they watch all that stuff. Sure.
SPEAKER 08 :
And then this stuff, John, it does kind of fall into the ready side of the preparedness side. Absolutely. Because one of the fallacies we have with preparedness and prepping and readiness and all that stuff is we think, hey, we’re going to doomsday apocalypse. But that is probably not going to happen. But you know what? You are going to have personal disasters.
SPEAKER 06 :
Sure.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right? You’re going to have loss of job. You get sick. You can’t work. You break something. You can’t move. You have to take some time off. You know, that goes from there to to OK, something in my house breaks, you know, and if your furnace goes out or you’re you got an electrical fire, guess what? That’s that’s a personal doomsday.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 08 :
And so when we talk about prep, prepping and readiness and stuff like that, it’s not always on. hey, the world’s going to come to an end.
SPEAKER 06 :
Precisely. No, it is not.
SPEAKER 08 :
It could happen on an individual level, a neighborhood level.
SPEAKER 06 :
In most cases, Bill, again, I don’t want to take anything away from the end of the world stuff. You and I talk about some of that stuff on a routine basis, and I’m not taking, for all of you listening, not taking anything away from that. We need to talk about those things because, Bill, on an outside chance that happens, we want people to be ready no matter what. That’s why we call it Ready Radio. On the same token, you just said it very well. there are a lot of little things, I guess you could say, I mean, it’s not little when that happens, but compared to an end of the world scenario, it’s little. That’s what I’m trying to say. So in a lot of cases, it’s those things that do happen that in a lot of cases really become a, a burden and can be a huge life changer if folks aren’t ready for those things.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Right. And you can have a personal catastrophe, you know, and then maybe not even financially ready to take care of that. You know, I mean,
SPEAKER 06 :
who’s got you know money on hand to to drill a new well or to you know whatever maybe put a roof on or i mean i don’t know i talk about this all the time on on my daily show and the reality is and these numbers might be a little bit old although i bet they’re not far off because this sort of thing doesn’t typically change much in fact it might be different today than the last time i checked about three years ago the stats were about 42 percent of americans couldn’t handle a 500 hit So in other words, they don’t have $500 for a medical emergency, something like you’re talking about, on even home issues and so on. Most people have got to go to a credit card or something to handle a $500 hit. That was 42%. That was several years ago. I’m guessing, if anything, it’s probably higher today, Bill, than it was. So if it’s changed, that number probably has gone up, not down.
SPEAKER 08 :
And not only that, but $500 today isn’t going to get you very far.
SPEAKER 06 :
Very true. Good point. Great point.
SPEAKER 08 :
You go to Texas Roadhouse, that’s a $100 bill for two people.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, you’re spot on.
SPEAKER 08 :
And, you know, I mean, for example, and then people don’t understand. They don’t. Get it, you know, like, hey, I’ve got an emergency and you go in there and you’re like, OK, it’s going to cost you this much. And then they they think that you’re taking advantage of them. You’re thinking, you know, they’re breaking you over the coals and they don’t understand. No, this is all proportional. So my supply house, everything has gone up. you know, my labor, everything has gone up. And when people cry for, you know, higher minimum wage and, and Oh, all employees need personal paid time off and they all need 401ks. And they got to understand that the employer cannot, cannot assume that cost. It’s going to get passed on. Right. I mean, cause we can’t, I mean, most employers, to be honest with you, the, the, The middleman, the small businesses, if you will, aren’t the millionaires of the world. They are basically making their wage maybe a little bit extra. They’ve got a few extra advantages to owning a business with taxes and things like that. And if they know how to leverage it, that’s really where the benefit comes in. But to be honest with you, a lot of business owners would probably financially do better if they worked for somebody. versus owning their own business. So the point I’m trying to make is, you know, just because you own a business doesn’t put you into that category of, Hey, you’re the 1% that, you know, I just, I just really quick, you know, AI asked, well, you’re talking to the question.
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And it’s opposite of what I thought. Now I upped it because to your point, 500 bucks doesn’t get you much. So I did $1,000. So I just said, okay, let’s do $1,000. So a bank rate survey, this is in 2025, so this year, that only 41% of U.S. adults could handle $1,000 emergency from their savings, meaning there is 59% of U.S. population couldn’t handle that $1,000 out of some sort of a savings account, cash, whatever. In other words, they’re borrowing or they’re rounding that money up. They’re going to friends, neighbors, credit cards, whatever the case may be. So basically 60% of Americans couldn’t handle that $1,000 expense. And, yeah, we upped it from the $500 because, to your point, $500, I mean, sorry, folks. I know what labor rates are. I mean, I coach all sorts of different businesses and so on, and it’s not just the automotive world. I mean, you’re talking. On the HVAC side, et cetera, you’re $150 plus on labor rates in today’s world to get most of anything done.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. I mean, for example, you know, it costs me to pay, right, my cost as an employer to pay an electrician, to have an electrician on staff is right around, you know, it’s about $130 an hour. By the time you factor in all the things.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and for those of you, really quick, here’s the math. For those of you listening, and maybe you don’t know this, some businesses don’t even know this. Labor costs inside of any business, I don’t care what it is, I don’t care if it’s a nonprofit, you can’t exceed 30% cost of whatever you’re charging. So even if you’re a nonprofit and your overall budget is a million bucks a year, let’s say, that means you can’t have salaries that exceed 300 grand because all of your other expenses are going to come into play, meaning you can’t do all the other things that are necessary, even ministry-wise, if you’re exceeding that 30%. Businesses’ bills are no different. If a business starts to exceed that 30%, they struggle to pay all the rest of the bills necessary for the business to stay profitable. So for those of you listening where you’re thinking, well, if an electrician only costs, you know, If a technician or an electrician only make $50 an hour, then you ought to be able to charge 60 or 70 and still make money. No, you’ve got to be three times that amount to be able to stay in business as a business. That’s the math and how it works.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, yeah. And what also people don’t understand is, you know, when they think they’ve got the time clock mentality. Oh, so you’re only, you know, hey, when I go to work, I punch the clock. I get paid for when I punch in and when I punch out. So when your technician comes to my job. He gets paid when he punches in and when he punches out. No, it doesn’t work that way because I’m not going to be able to find any electrician for hire that is going to work that way. No. They’re drive to you. And try getting anywhere in the metro hour under 30 minutes.
SPEAKER 06 :
You can’t. Hardly. Not during the day with rush hour and stuff. No.
SPEAKER 08 :
With traffic, you can’t. No. Like, for example, the job that we just left, my son-in-law, he’s got to go to Broomfield next. I mean, that’s a 30-minute drive. trip there. And then his next job is all the way back in Elizabeth, which is on his way home. But you know, there’s an hour another drive time. And I’m sorry, folks. But yeah, that’s not free. That has got to be incorporated into that cost. And so yeah, you’ve got the hourly wage, you’ve got health insurance, you’ve got his 401k, you’ve got his you know, his personal paid time off now that the state is making us pay his hourly wage, plus the fuel in that van, plus the time he’s sitting in that van, the windshield time, plus his cell phone, plus I got to pay, you know, my daughter in the office who is answering the phones, plus I got to pay my wife who’s doing the books. So yeah, I mean, when you add all that up,
SPEAKER 06 :
Yep, it adds up.
SPEAKER 08 :
We ain’t breaking the bank here.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, no. Again, point being, for a lot of you that are listening, this is why when you have somebody come out and do something, and this is part of the whole radio end of things, because some of these things you’re not going to be able to do yourself. You’re going to have to hire somebody. to handle some of the things bill and i here in the not too distant future we’ve been discussing this we need to get into the whole reserve power generation end of things and so on and how do you handle that what’s the best way to do it and so on and we’ll get to that probably not today but here in the weeks ahead we’ll get into some of that i did get a text message that came in really good question i’ll ask bill in a moment don’t go anywhere though hang tight ready radio don’t forget bill’s website prep the number two protect co.com we’ll be right back ready radio klz 560.
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SPEAKER 06 :
All right, and we are back. Ready Radio, KLZ 560. Bill Anderson normally on the phone, but with me in person today. Question came in, Bill. This is more of a code thing, and this particular person is getting some differing answers. How far away from a gas meter or a gas line, I guess you could even say, does an electrical outlet have to be? Do you know what the code is on that?
SPEAKER 08 :
An electrical outlet or a panel?
SPEAKER 06 :
This said outlet, and I’m sure there’s a difference between panel and outlet.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, when you’re dealing with panels and disconnects and things like that, you have what’s called working clearances.
SPEAKER 06 :
And he basically said outlet box in the shop. So, in other words, no plug like the RV into and so on. How far away from the gas meter or a gas line does that have to be?
SPEAKER 08 :
I honestly don’t know if there’s a code that says there’s a distance on that. I mean, outside of the working clearances –
SPEAKER 06 :
Because essentially, once that gas is there, secure, the line, whatever, really nothing’s going to happen to it, right? It shouldn’t. I know there’s rules on water lines and sinks and things like that, correct?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, that’s for GFI protection. And anymore with current code, everything has to be in the house GFI and arc fault protected, pretty much. I mean, there’s some exceptions. Okay. But that’s for, you know, which is a whole other side topic because now they’re using PEX for everything. and PEX isn’t conductive, so… Why does it matter at that point? Why does it matter? Because when you use the copper, the copper was connected to the earth, and it was grounded. And so if I reached over and touched my faucet, I would become grounded. And so if I got into the electrical, you know, and even if the cast iron drain or the copper, you know, I was essentially connected to earth. You’re making a certain… Now that everything’s plastic, you ain’t touching the earth no more, so I don’t even know why a ground fault is needed anymore. I mean, I can demo that right here. I could take that outlet apart, grab that hot wire, John, and nothing is going to happen to me until I touch ground. As soon as I touch ground, now I’m part of the circuit. So if I’m in the middle of my house, in the middle of my living room on a wood floor or whatever, two stories up, How can I get shocked if I’m not touching the ground? Now, understand that there’s a ground in the outlet, right? There’s a ground wire provided and there’s a neutral provided. I’m not talking about getting into the circuit. What a ground fault is, is I’ll break it down in as simple as terms as I can. You’ve got the black wire and the white wire. The electron goes out on, let’s just call it the black wire, and then goes back on the white wire. and that creates a circuit. So if an electron goes outside of that circuit, it’s going to ground. So it will measure the amps coming in and going out. That’s what the GFI does, whether it’s a breaker or an outlet. And it says, oh, there’s a difference. That means there’s electrons going outside of the intended circuit. It’s going to ground.
SPEAKER 06 :
I lost something somewhere.
SPEAKER 08 :
Open the switch, right? So if you’re not touching ground, there’s no way you can get into it. So that’s just, you know, again, the way I think on that. But as far as an outlet being located, I’ll have to look that up because I don’t know if there are any. Did he provide any?
SPEAKER 06 :
Uh, he did not. So, so don’t know, no specifics on that. Just, just an, an outlet like to run, you know, park your RV inside, you know, run a fair size outlet in the, you know, probably dedicated like 30 amp outlet or something, uh, in the, in the garage. How far away from the gas meter in this case is what he’s saying. Does it have to be? So, okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
So it’s not an NEC. I just looked it up. It’s not an NEC. It’s under the fuel gas code. Okay. The NFPA 54 National Fuel Gas Code, which says three feet away. Three feet is clearance. But that’s a gas code, not an NEC code. The only NEC code you would have would be working clearances. Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. So, and Mike, if you’re listening, you texted me on that. I think if you could be, here’s what I would advise. If you’ve got enough room and you can be the three feet, like what, which isn’t that far, by the way, if you can be a yard away and make it work, go for it. If you have to be closer than that and you’ve still got good working clearances around it, I don’t know, Bill, if it makes a big difference.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, yeah, this one thing that I’m reading here is gas meters don’t create a hazardous condition, like you were saying, unless there’s a leak there.
SPEAKER 06 :
And that you’re going to smell and know right away, so not a huge, huge issue.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, not only that, but you’ve got to have two things happen. You’ve got to have the gas, and then you’ve got to have the ignition.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
So now you’ve got to have the spark. So now if you’re sparking, well that’s an electrical issue. So yeah, everything that I’m seeing here is it’s a gas code, not an electrical code. Other than working clearances, yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
Good to know. Again, let’s go back to last week. So that’s pretty much it on the electric side. And what I would say just as the ready radio sides of things go, the preventative sides of things. And, folks, this one I think probably common sense here. But if you’ve got something where you feel like every time you plug something in, you see the lights dimming and you just kind of know that you’ve got certain issues going on, those are things to not overlook. I mean, those are things, Bill, that either you, if you’re sharp enough, figure it out on your own or have an electrician out, explain to them what’s going on. Listen, you know, or I smell something, smell something burning, you know, anything along those lines. If you just don’t feel like something’s right, you know what? It probably isn’t.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, that’s exactly right. A little flickering, dimming, all that stuff. Usually those are loose neutrals. And depending on how the installation was done. So in the outlet, there’s what’s called a backstab. And it’s a quick, let’s stick it in there. And it works off of a compression spring. And you’ll notice the difference between an installer and a service tech. Because a service tech will never backstab because they’re fixing those all the time.
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t even do that. I’m not you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
But so many times they backstab those. Because I don’t like them. Well, and for me, I guess, sorry, not to get off on a tangent here, but Coming out of the automotive world and knowing how the electrical sides of things works there, and I get it. It’s a moving item, and it’s even different than what you do in a house. That’s why we use stranded wire instead of solid wire and so on, because there’s so many things happening in the car because it’s traveling down the road. The thing that used to always drive me crazy is I’d have somebody that would come in where they’d done something on their own, or they’d even wired up their own trailer breaker or whatever, and they used Romex to do so. And I’d be like, oh, geez. Yeah, you – Yeah, that’s like the biggest no-no there is, because as you know, the vibration is what causes those to get loose and break and so on. So for me, it’s why I’ve never liked any of the spring-type connections, which is what you’re talking about. I’ve never liked those. I get it. They’re typically in a house, nothing’s moving, but that’s not totally true. There is some small vibrations and harmonics that comes out of those circuits at times, depending upon what’s going on, and It’s not that they’re moving, but they’re quote-unquote buzzing. Maybe that’s a better way to say it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, not only that, but you’ve got the expanding and contraction of the wire. As the electron goes faster, it’s called amperage. And so the higher amperage, the faster flow of electron, which is going to cause heat. Your breakers work off of two principles, the electromagnetic field. So in every breaker, there’s a magnet. And once that electromagnetic field reaches a certain potential, it’s basically north to north on the, the magnet and it throws it open and then also works on temperature. And this is why, you know, it’s really important to make sure you match the right size gauge wire with the breaker, because if you put an undersized wire on the breaker, you have the potential of that wire melting before it reaches the impasse or the electromagnetic field and the temperature to throw that breaker. And that’s why you can’t test the breaker because every time you do that, the weaker those things get in the breaker. So, I mean, we used to have way back, I’m talking way back, when I first started, early 90s, I’d have my breaker finder and it was basically a short circuit switch and I’d plug it in and that’s how I’d go find the breaker. Cause it was the one that was now tripped. Yeah. Bad idea. Cause I’m, I’m destroying that breaker every time.
SPEAKER 06 :
Every time that breaker trips, it’s, it’s life expectancies going down. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yep. Yep. And you know, here’s the other thing with breakers, John, that people say, well, it’s worked for 50 years and it’s like, what do you mean it’s worked? You don’t know if it’s working unless it’s tripping. Because it is a filter, if you will, right? And it’s only going to fail if it’s required or if it’s called to to fail. So just because your electricity hasn’t gone off or your breakers haven’t gone off doesn’t mean it’s working or it’s not working. You don’t know that. So, you know, I that’s the biggest thing with real estate transactions. It’s like, man, this thing’s worked for 50 years. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s like, well, how do you know? Just means you’ve never had a fault. But if you were to have a fault, how do you know that it would trip? you know, the life expectancies of these breakers, you know, 20, 30 years, and you should be swapping them out, you know, or you should go out there when you do the yearly maintenance where you’re cleaning your panel, just exercise your breaker, just exercise that spring, just turn it off, turn it on, turn it off, turn on a couple of times and You know, exercise it because I’ve seen a lot of breakers over the years get frozen in place.
SPEAKER 06 :
True.
SPEAKER 08 :
Especially with the dust that we have.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, good point.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, the wind and the exposure. You can walk up to some of these south-facing electrical panels and any given day on a summer day, that thing would be well over 100 degrees because of the sun. because we have intense sun here, and it’s right there. And that’s a sales tactic of some of these people. They’ll come through with the IR gun, shoot your dead front, and be like, oh, my gosh, your dead front’s at 130. And I get a call going, they’re saying they’ve got to replace everything. It’s 130. I’m like, yeah, it’s direct sunlight in the summertime in July.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, of course it is. The brick’s probably not far off of that. Probably not. You’re going to release a brick as well? No, of course not.
SPEAKER 08 :
But that temperature does have an effect over the life of the breaker.
SPEAKER 06 :
Good point. Okay, so for a lot of you listening, again, if you’ve got any issues when it comes to electrical things around the house, yeah, pay attention to those. Don’t just ignore them. If you’ve got a breaker that keeps tripping, okay, why not? Is there something on that circuit that maybe isn’t right? Maybe you need to have somebody come out, look at that, check it. Does something need to be changed, fixed, whatever the case may be? Just don’t ignore those things. Those are things that you shouldn’t ignore.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, and some of the stuff, John, as a homeowner, you should know. Like a car owner, you should know how to do some things. Agree. It’s responsible of the homeowner. You should know where your main breaker’s at. You know how many times I’ve gone to the house and it’s like, okay, where’s your panel? I don’t know. What’s that? Or they’ll take me to a sub-panel and, yeah, where’s your main panel? Oh, I have another one? You know, it’s kind of like knowing where your main water shutoff is. If you have a flood, you better know how to shut that water off before somebody can get there. Otherwise, you’ve got a bigger flood.
SPEAKER 06 :
Great point.
SPEAKER 08 :
There’s a few things in there that, as a homeowner, you should – not asking you to be Tim the tool man, but you should at least know –
SPEAKER 06 :
some basics hey here’s my gas meter here’s my electrical panel here’s how to shut the power along those lines before we jump into you know continuing on last week’s topic what are some basic tools for those people that are out there listening maybe they’re a novice but they want to know a few things and they want to maybe have something that enables them to do a few things on their own are there some basic electric tools that they should own
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I think everybody should have a plug tester, and you can buy these.
SPEAKER 06 :
Just the little yellow-red things you plug in that got the three lights on it, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Correct, correct. I call them wood heads because that was one of the original terms. It was a wood head, so a lot of… Where did that come from? I don’t know, but a lot of younger electricians have no idea what that is, and honestly, I don’t even know. I mean, I’ve been doing this for 30-plus years, so a lot of the terminology that… You know, and you know, in the tool industry, as technicians, we call, you know, everything’s a, give me those Klein’s. Klein’s a brand name. Right. Channelox is a brand name.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know. That’s right. So give me my Channelox.
SPEAKER 06 :
Crescent Ranch is a brand name. Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Yeah. I call those goes on wrenches because it goes on anything.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s right. That’s right.
SPEAKER 08 :
But.
SPEAKER 06 :
Speed wrench.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, so it’s. Get the electrical plug tester. They’re under $10 maybe. And if you get one with the GFI test button on it, then you can test your GFIs. And you can plug that in, and it’ll at least tell you if it’s wired correctly. It’ll tell you if it’s got a missing ground. And by the way, a missing ground isn’t the end of the world. Everybody loses their mind with a missing ground. I’ve already explained that to you.
SPEAKER 06 :
For years and years and years, we didn’t have any. Yeah. There’s certain countries like Japan don’t use them.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. It’s just a, you know, electricity takes the path of least resistance. So it’s providing a path of, I call it the runaway truck ramp. You know, we’re here in the mountains and it’s like, Hey, get the, get the semi, get the car off the road and run it up the hill. out of the way of danger.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s all that ground’s doing, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s all the ground is, is a runaway truck wrap. You still will get shocked because you’re parallel in that circuit. But the intensity of the shock, you’re going to get less of that because you have more resistance than the path of least resistance. So it’s going to take the bigger hit through the ground.
SPEAKER 06 :
Gotcha.
SPEAKER 08 :
And that’s really all it does. But it’s going to tell you if there’s a ground there. It’s going to tell you if it’s wired backwards. Right. And if you do change out your own devices, here’s a great tip. Take a picture of before you take it apart and after you take it apart.
SPEAKER 06 :
Especially in today’s world, so easy to do.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, because there’s so many different ways to wire things. You know, you’ve got, again, old electrician terms. You’ve got California switches where they switch the white back up to the hot. And if you go back to hook things up, I just had to fix a whole house. because they went in and tried to replace all their like fixtures. And in this particular area, you get to learn in in doing this for so many years you get to learn okay this house was built in the 70s here’s how they wired in the 70s here’s what they did in the 50s here’s what they did in the 80s good point and so you know they brought everything to the to the light fixture and then branched down to each individual outlet and if they did a california switch well you’ve got to keep that all separated because if you go back there and just take everything apart and you go everything white
SPEAKER 06 :
To white and black to black doesn’t work.
SPEAKER 08 :
You’ve got to direct short every time you hit that switch. So, you know, take a picture of it, label it, you know, do whatever you can. But I would get one of those and then I would get what I call a tick tracer. Again, that’s an old term because they used to go tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Now they just, they’re glow sticks or whatever.
SPEAKER 06 :
They buzz or they beep or they do whatever.
SPEAKER 08 :
Or they light up on the end. Right, right. You know, if you had two of those as a homeowner, you’re pretty good. I mean, if you want to get into a multimeter, well, then you’re going to need to understand what that multimeter is telling you.
SPEAKER 06 :
How do you even turn it on and which setting to go to?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yep, which setting to go to, what are you trying to read, and what’s the range, what setting to go to.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right, right, right. Good point.
SPEAKER 08 :
So just those two devices will get you by. But the tick tracers can throw you off, too, because if you’ve got 12 volts on that, it’s going to light up, and you’re going to think, oh, it’s hot.
SPEAKER 06 :
One last thing I’d recommend, too, for some of you, and some people are really into tools, me. I’m a tool nut, which I know I shouldn’t be, but I always have been. Insulated pliers, insulated screwdrivers. If you don’t have those or you don’t know what I’m talking about, figure out what those are. They’re not that expensive. You can pick them up relatively inexpensively. And the reason I say that is if you happen to touch something and it is actually hot, quote unquote, you won’t shock yourself with that insulated screwdriver. And not all are, okay? Not all are. Not all are. And that’s where you really need to pay attention to what you’re using there. You know, old pliers where there’s no insulation on the end of the handle. And by the way, there’s different insulations even that will, you know, protect you if, in fact, you happen to cut a wire and it’s hot, which sometimes can happen. You’ll ruin your pliers or your side cutters, by the way, in doing so because it’ll put a big spot in it that you may or may not be able to sharpen back out of it. But at the end of the day, you won’t shock yourself if you’ve got insulated handles and so on. And they’re not all created equal.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, and to be honest with you, John, a good pair of leather gloves will save you from most of that stuff. But here’s the thing, too. Just turn it off. Turn the power off. People are amazed because they’re like, well, don’t you want to turn the power off? For me personally, no, because I need the power on to tell what’s going on. Right. But you’re different. In fact, we were at a house yesterday. A new build that we were doing and I was trimming it out. And I went back to one of the devices that I trimmed out in the garage because I did temporary power for them so they could, you know, paint and drywall and all that stuff. And I just trimmed this device out and they were plugged into it. And I’m like, don’t those guys know it’s not really plugged in? And then I hear the air compressor kicked on. And I wired that thing hot and didn’t even know it. But I’ve done it for 30 years. Even when it wasn’t hot, I know what to touch. I had a young man that was dating my daughter. He thought he was going to be an electrician, and he came to work with me. He’s worked with me. I says, you know, electricity is a lot like dating my daughter. I says, knowing what you can touch and what you can’t touch and still live.
SPEAKER 06 :
There you go. All right, we’ll close with that. We’ll go to break. We’ll come back. Ready-radio.com is our website. We’ll be right back. Ready Radio, KLZ 560.
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SPEAKER 06 :
All right, we are back. Radio KLC 560. Appreciate you guys, by the way, that have been texting in different comments and questions and so on, and the whole electrical plug versus gas meter and all that. Thank you, by the way. We appreciate that as well. You can still ask a question. We’ve got time left today to get that answered. 307-200-8222 bill let’s talk about some of the gun classes because as you were stating during the break we’re getting really tight on time if some of you have you know getting to the point where you need to renew your concealed permit and so on there’s different rules for all of that and we’re running out of time is probably the better way to say that right bill Well, it depends on who you’re doing your training with.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. If they are doing a outside range, we’re running out of time. Okay. Right. Because of weather. If somebody is doing an indoor range, well, you know, you’re okay still, but you can take your renewal class six months in advance or prior to your expiration date. Now, depending on your county, how soon you can apply, you have to talk to your county. Douglas County is like 120 days. Elbert County is like 120 days leading up to it. Now, why is this important? Because if you let it expire, then you’re on the hook for the whole new class again.
SPEAKER 06 :
Which is really cumbersome, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, so in our case, the basic class is eight hours, okay? The renewal class is a minimum of two hours. But with the requirements that they have put into the class, it’s pretty hard to do in two hours. So you have to do… Both classroom and range and both have to have a test on the renewal as well. So you have to have, you know, a classroom portion, take a test. Then you have to go to the range, shoot at least 50 rounds and pass a test. That’s pretty hard to do in two hours. You know, now I’m sure there’s people out there that are just going to be. you know, um, kind of like class mills where they’re just going to push people through, which, you know, I mean, I get it. You can get into the whole second amendment and I shouldn’t have to be taking class to do this and whatever. I mean, there’s, there’s pros and cons to that because, you know, sometimes a person with a gun can be more of a liability ability than an asset. It’s just kind of like driving. I mean, just because you can doesn’t mean you should because you should have training in that. You should know at least what to expect if you were to encounter a self-defense situation. And that’s really where we focus on. We’re not focused on just getting you through. We’re not focused on, hey, just get the rounds on paper. Let me just stamp the certificate for you so that you can go do it. We’re really… geared towards the reality of what it would take for a citizen if they had to defend themselves and going through you know the different scenarios and principle-based learning because there is no cookie cutter answer hey if this happens do this no i can’t do that because the answer to all that stuff is well it depends depends on where you are depends on what’s going on there’s so many variables in there and we teach distance we teach you know Retention. We teach shooting with both hands. A lot of people laugh at that, but at the end of the day, if I’m about to have my sixth grandchild here, and if I’m carrying my newborn, I’m not going to drop that baby so I can get two hands on the gun. I’m not going to do that. That’s ridiculous. What if my hand gets broken? What if something happens to it? I better be able to still operate left or right-handed. Right. Good point. So it’s… Sometimes I get a little frustrated with the gun industry and the gun enthusiasts because they are so rigid in the thinking of this is what you got to do and you got to focus on marksmanship and you got to get the bullseye. But you’re shooting stagnant targets that you or the target aren’t moving. That’s not reality. And at the end of the day, zero to 21 feet, I’m lucky if I’m going to get sights on there. Zero to 10 feet, I ain’t getting the sights. If I’m getting the sights on that, I’m getting the gun taken away. You know, we run through all those practical exercises to demonstrate to you that, no, that’s not the answer. And here’s why. Let me show you. You know, in 1.47 seconds, I can cover 21 feet. The average person can seal carry two-second draw. That’s if they’re somewhat proficient. Who’s proficient out there? Not very many people. Then you’ve got the OODA loop, which is the decision-making process, which could take anywhere from three to five seconds, depending on the person. So now I’ve got three to five seconds. Let’s just call it two seconds. Now I got a two second draw. I’m four seconds before I even do anything. And that person, that person’s on me in 1.47 seconds. And then we’ll do, we’ll, we’ll have, I’ll run a scenario where my, my, my son-in-law, my co-teacher there is, is stabbing me. I says, Hey, in, in one second, count the stabs he can get on me. And it’s like, you know. I was going to say four or five probably.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, yeah. Because people forget how long a second is.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, or I’m getting hit with a pipe or I’m getting hit. So all of this is happening to you before you even got the gun out. But people go, I’m good. I got the gun. I’m safe. No, you’re not. So that’s why we focus on our classes to show you. Let’s bring to light a little bit more realistic scenarios, a little bit more realistic training-based scenarios and show you what’s really – potential out there and now here’s the tools to work through them and we shoot through all those john and i can’t do it in two hours so our renewal class is four hours so you come for the second half of the the classroom portion we go through all the laws which is required by the state of colorado now cover all those things and then we go out to the range and we shoot a lot of these different scenarios different positions um and then i do have the tests that i have to you have to pass you know and i have to record all that so Anyway, the last class that I’m having is October 11th for our level one, and then the following weekend I’m doing our level two, which is an advanced training. But that’s probably going to be it. I haven’t decided yet for November, but you know, in Colorado, we don’t know what November is going to look like. We don’t even know what October is going to look like. We could have snow any time at this point.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, you’re right.
SPEAKER 08 :
You get past the 15th of October and all bets are off. Yeah, whatever. So look at those. Look at those permits that you have. See if you’re there. Be proactive and get the requirements. Whether you agree with them or not, I hear it every class. That’s not the issue. I don’t agree with this. I don’t agree with this. I’m not here to agree or disagree. I don’t agree with certain speed limits, but they are there. I guess the answer to that is you need to move.
SPEAKER 06 :
Seriously, I mean, I don’t know what to tell you. It is what it is. I mean, again, and they’re being fought. And I told Bill, you know, mine doesn’t renew until like 2028, so I’ve got a little bit of time, and things could completely change between now and 2028. But the reality is Bill’s got a great point. If you’re in that renewal end of things right now or you’re looking to even get one to start with, These are the laws we have right now on the books. I don’t like them. I don’t like the fact you even have to have a CCW, to be real honest with you, Bill. But the reality is we do, meaning you’ve got to abide by that. You’re not going to have any choice. So if that’s the law right now currently, then go do it. And again, I don’t like it, but it is what it is, Bill.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and the alternative is if I do get caught, now I’ve lost my privileges. Sure. Well, that’s a good point, too. So, you know, do I want to just follow the rules and not risk it? But then if I do get caught, now, you know, good luck. Now you’re not going to.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, you know, that’s something we’ve really never talked about because I get all sorts of folks that will even text me in at times and say, you know, I know that’s the law, but I’m just going to do what I need to do and not worry about it. Well, and by the way, that’s your right. You can do whatever you feel like you need to do as far as that goes. But you just brought up a great point. If you get the wrong officer at the wrong time, and they don’t particularly care for what’s going on, and they feel like they want to do everything by the letter of the law, guess what? You’re screwed.
SPEAKER 08 :
And depending on where you live.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s a good point as well.
SPEAKER 08 :
Denver’s not going to be as lenient as, let’s say, Elbert County.
SPEAKER 06 :
Even Jeffco. Jeffco to Denver, which, by the way, is not that far apart from one another. It’s two different worlds. That’s a trip to King Soopers, maybe, or Home Depot. It’s two totally different worlds, Bill, as you know. right and by the way i know this because i know some denver police officers even the officer you get officer will have a huge you know i know some of the officers in denver uh that are you know personally good friends of mine that frankly if that you were you were had an encounter with them frankly probably not going to have too many issues but guess what uh their cohort or or the next officer that pulls up might not look at it the same way right right it just depends on right so i’ve
SPEAKER 08 :
I have police officer friends that are with Denver. And, you know, one of the officers I took a training with with the car, you know, the defensive car and shooting in the car and things like that. He took the class with us. And one of the big things is the seatbelt. The seatbelt’s an issue, especially if you carry it at 3 o’clock. And, you know, if you’re the driver, guess where your gun is and that’s where your latch is, right? And so… Some people choose not to put their seatbelt on because they’re concealed carrying. And my officer friend is one of he says cops in the police car never use their seatbelt because if they’ve got to get out of the car, they got to get out.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
And I said, so if you pulled me over and I told you, hey, I’m concealed carrying and I’m not wearing my seatbelt because I may need to get out of this car. He said, yeah, I would be fine with that. I wouldn’t ticket you that. He says, but if you go to Colorado State Patrol, they don’t care.
SPEAKER 06 :
They don’t care at all. They don’t care. They’re going by the letter of the law when it comes to that seatbelt law.
SPEAKER 08 :
And the thing, going back to the electrical thing, you know, inspectors are the same way. Good point. One inspector is going to be one way.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, I talked about that on Fix-It Radio last Saturday morning when it comes to the whole inspection thing. And I think you even sent me some text messages along those lines. The reality is there’s a lot of these inspectors. It’s no different. It’s exactly – it’s very subjective, I guess, is the way to say that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, home inspectors, that’s a whole other –
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s another one we’ll get to at a later date. Yeah. That’s a Saturday morning. They’re on about the same level as Handyman with me. That’s a fix-it radio thing for Saturday mornings. We’ll get to that at some point. But point being, Bill’s got some classes. If you’re somebody where you’re running up against, and what I would say is look at your expiration on your concealed carry permit. And if you’re within, Bill, probably six months of that, I would say take the class.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, the law says the class has to be taken within six months. So you can’t go seventh month or whatever. So you need to wait for that six months. And by the way, that might be designed for the winter in Colorado. I don’t know, but it very well could be.
SPEAKER 06 :
Because if you think about it, you think six months, you get this thing, you know, at one of these dates, October 11th. Well, that means you’ve got November, December, January, February. If you’re expiring in March, then you’re good to go to your point.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, right. So if you’re expiring in December or January and you haven’t already done that class, you’re going to narrow the availability. And I had a student come out from Castle Rock, from Douglas County, and he said he had a heck of a time trying to find someone who would do renewals because a lot of these classes, a lot of these places, a lot of these instructors are saying… it’s not worth my time to do a renewal because, you know, I’ve got to teach all this stuff in this certain hour. And, you know, because it’s an eight-hour class, a lot of instructors are going, you know, 250 a class, 250 a person because, you know, you’re there all day. It’s a full-time job and you only get a handful of people in there, you know, well, you do the math, right? Yeah, it’s great if you have a full class, but, you know, if you have – you know, two or three instructors to help you. And then you got to pay for the range or you got range safety people you got to have on you. You know, again, it’s kind of like we talked about when we started about, you know, how far does that money go? You know, I had one person go, you know, you’re charging how much for a class? Well, I could drive down to somewhere down Southern Colorado and they do them for free. Okay, go ahead. He’s like, well, I don’t want to drive down there. I’m like, well, then you’re going to pay me.
SPEAKER 06 :
Drive or… By the way, there’s a cost of driving. So at the end of the day, do whatever you want to do.
SPEAKER 08 :
Do whatever you want to do. But he was kind of irritated with me because I was charging and this other place wasn’t. Well… It’s a free country. Go. Yeah.
SPEAKER 06 :
You’re not handcuffed to do anything.
SPEAKER 08 :
And he ended up coming to my class, and he ended up loving it, and he ended up recommending it to all these other people because he’s saying, hey, where I’m at, I’ve called everybody. I’ve called the sheriff. I’ve called these. And by the way, the sheriffs won’t necessarily recommend anybody because they can’t. Right. You’ve got 10 instructors you can’t – you’ll get yourself in trouble if you recommend one. That’s showing partiality. Right, right. And so, you know, at least with Elbert County, when you look up their concealed carry instructors, they have their phone number there and you can choose. A lot of other counties don’t. Okay. So you don’t even know. It’s becoming very difficult to find where to get these renewal classes. So the point, John, you’ve got six months. Get her done.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yep, get her done. Bill? As always, appreciate you very much. Thanks for coming by live today. Not live, but in person is what I should say. In person today. Charlie Grimes, our engineer. Of course, this is Ready Radio. Don’t forget Bill’s website, prep2protectco.com. We’ll be back next week. Ready Radio, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 03 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
