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In this engaging episode, journey beyond the headlines into the heart of some of the world’s most consequential debates. Washington Watch brings together influential voices like Congresswoman Stephanie Bice and Dr. Albert Moeller, tackling issues from religious persecution in Syria to the fiscal responsibilities at home. Discover how the temporary funding measure, the Clean CR, represents both a fiscal compromise and a pragmatic step toward avoiding a government shutdown, all while slashing billions from domestic expenses. The episode also raises crucial ethical questions around U.S. foreign policy and international intervention, particularly amidst the ongoing crisis in Syria where thousands
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins starts now.
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This clean CR, we need it to pass. It effectively curbs spending, freezes spending, while allowing the government to continue to function. The president supports the CR, and we’re hopeful and expect Republicans to get on board so we can pass it and continue moving forward implementing President Trump’s agenda.
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That was White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt on Fox & Friends weekend, discussing the temporary funding measure before Congress this week. Welcome to Washington Watch. I’m Tony Perkins. Thanks for tuning in. Well, coming up on this Monday edition, the terrorist-aligned regime in Syria, led by HTS leader Abu Mohammed al-Jilani, launched a horrific attack over the weekend, killing thousands of religious minorities. As…
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HTS took over Syria. Israel cautioned the world to judge Syria’s new regime by their actions rather than their words. And, unfortunately, here it is. The dangerous reality and the brutality of jihadist rule and jihadi terrorism.
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That was Israeli government spokesman David Mincer earlier today. We’ll talk with Charmaine Heading, president of Shay Group, a organization that protects vulnerable faith groups in the Middle East and elsewhere. Also joining me is Dr. Albert Moeller, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. We’ll discuss what, if any, responsibility Christians in America have to help fellow believers who are facing persecution. And finally, the attorney general of Missouri has won a major judgment against China for its role in unleashing COVID-19. China now owes Missouri $24 billion in damages. Could this open a floodgate of lawsuits against China? And will a communist country actually pay? General Bailey of Missouri will join us later here on Washington Watch. Plus, the fourth episode of our God and Government series is out today. Is America a Christian nation? What does history actually reveal? And how did the Bible shape our founding? Well, you can find out by watching exclusively on the Stand Firm app. Don’t have the app yet? Well, text COURSE to 67742 to access the God and Government course. That’s 67742, the word COURSE. By the way, I want to thank Jody Heiss for filling in for me most of last week while I was in Israel. I know I was able to do a couple of days of the broadcast. But throughout the week, I’ll tell you more about our trip to Israel and our meeting with the prime minister and others. A very productive trip. But again, I want to thank Jody for filling in for me. Well, House Republicans on Saturday rolled out a continuing resolution, a CR, to fund the federal government operations through the end of September. So this will be a long-term temporary funding measure. Now, Democrat leaders have already signaled that they will not support the temporary funding measure, which was quickly endorsed by President Trump as a, quote, very good funding bill that all Republicans should vote yes on. Of course, the president coming out in support of it should give it a good boost. But with the March 14th deadline fast approaching, will Democrats risk a partial government shutdown and undermine their own messaging in the process? Joining me now to discuss this, Congresswoman Stephanie Bice, a member of the House Appropriations Committee and the Committee on House Administration. She represents the 5th Congressional District of Oklahoma. Congresswoman Bice, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us.
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Thank you for having me. Thrilled to be on.
SPEAKER 05 :
So this temporary long-term funding measure gets us through to next year, in which time, according to the speaker and conversations I’ve had with him, this is something he’s publicly expressed. I want to get back to the normal appropriations, where the appropriations committees will actually do appropriations bills, the 13 bills, and they’ll move those through the process. But this buys the time to do that, does it not?
SPEAKER 10 :
It does. And I think the key here is that we’re avoiding a government shutdown because really all a government shutdown is is a distraction from getting our important work done, which President Trump has said is securing our southern border, protecting our national security interests and reining in spending. And although we don’t have the opportunity to make some of the cuts that we would like to in a full appropriations package, this holds spending flat and gives some flexibility to agencies to be able to move money around. And that’s really important, particularly when you’re talking about the Department of Defense. When you do a continuing resolution or a CR, what you’re doing is you’re extending the same funding from the previous year, and those amounts stay the same. And so we have flat funding, but there’s no ability to have what we call new starts or start new projects. And so this CR is a clean CR, but it also gives some flexibility to agencies to be able to move those dollars around and focus on the important things that we have in front of us.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, given how the government grows every year, no matter what we do, there’s always this expansion of it. By continuing this, and if I’m reading correctly through this 99-page bill, there’s actually some reductions in this. So this is not growing government through this CR. It’s actually reducing it by somewhere about $7 billion overall.
SPEAKER 10 :
That’s correct. What we’re doing is we’re not funding the community project funds that we funded in 24. So you remove those dollars and it actually is a small savings overall, which is really what we’re after. We haven’t had a significant reduction in spending in this country in quite some time. And we are now $36 trillion in debt. We’re racking up about $1.75 trillion per year currently. And this is an unsustainable path. And the president has been very clear that we’ve got to figure out, how do we reign in bureaucracy? How do we reign in wasteful spending that we have seen really highlighted particularly in the joint address to Congress last week. These are priorities for the president. And so although we’re not able to tackle the specific programs now, we are seeing that reduction and we will continue to work on through the appropriations process, you know, writing some of these bills in a way that reduce funding, but also reduce those programs or eliminate those programs that we feel are incredibly wasteful taxpayer dollars.
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So, Stephanie, help walk our viewers and listeners through the varied vehicles that are out there that we’ve been talking about. So we’re talking about budget reconciliation. That’s another topic that’s been out there. Now, we’re talking right here because March 14th, the end of this week, government funding ceases. So this is a funding measure for the remainder of this fiscal year. Go through September of next year. But there’s also discussion where the savings are going to be made and where there’s program changes is going to be in the budget reconciliation. Talk about how that all fits together.
SPEAKER 10 :
Sure. So you’re exactly right. Right now, we’re addressing sort of the current crisis at hand, if you will, and that’s making sure that we do not shut government down. Republicans are very clear. A shutdown is catastrophic for a variety of reasons, and it’s a distraction from the president’s agenda. We want to make sure that Democrats recognize that we can’t shut government down because they don’t like some of the sort of policies that are being put forward. So we’re going to address the current issue at hand, which is funding government through this September. As an appropriator, we will immediately go into the FY26 appropriations process, which will begin on October the 1st of this year. And then in the meantime, we are going to be doing what we call budget reconciliation. And really, budget reconciliation is just a way for us to put together a package. It has to have an impact on spending that only requires a simple majority in the Senate. So a simple majority in the House and the Senate, essentially bypassing the filibuster in the Senate. And what President Trump has indicated he wants to focus on is certainly extending the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that was passed in 2017, which will help every middle-class family in America. It also helps our small businesses. There are a ton of provisions in the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that will ensure that small businesses continue to thrive. So our focus is gonna be on getting that particular bill across the finish line. it’s a big bill. We’re talking about four and a half trillion dollars in tax cuts. And my colleagues and I want to see offsets to that. We want to see, you know, the rein in of spending, which I mentioned. So we’re going to be using this vehicle to what we call codify some of the cuts that Joj has found, that Elon Musk and his group have found some of the wasteful spending and identified it. And what we plan to do is use those cuts those offsets as part of the reconciliation package so we can pay for essentially the tax cuts that we want to continue, likely making permanent those important provisions that are helping families across the country.
SPEAKER 05 :
So if I were to describe this as a race that we’re running, what we’re looking at here with the CR, the low hurdles, we get to the budget reconciliation, the high hurdles. And then, of course, we have the appropriations process, which hasn’t been done really in about 20 years. So that’s going to be quite significant if Congress is able to move through the normal appropriations process. process. All right, Stephanie, let me ask you a couple of questions about this CR, because generally Republicans are opposed to it. A lot of Republicans, not all, but the last several CRs, we’ve seen quite a few Republicans opposed to it. It’s required Democratic support. So, A, are all the Republicans on board because you don’t have much to spare? And B, do you have any Democratic support?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, let me first start by saying I’ve only seen one of our Republican members come out publicly in opposition to the CR, and that’s Thomas Massey. He’s been pretty clear for quite some time now that he does not favor this because he believes it is just continuing to kick the can down the road. And to some extent, I understand his frustration. But I do think that for a lot of my colleagues, we recognize that this is really a cap on spending or even a slight reduction. And so being able to vote for this is not the same as the CRs of the past, where you’re continuing spending in a way that really, in many minds, doesn’t make sense. So I do think that you’re going to have my colleagues support the CR. You also have the president coming out as you started this particular segment with Caroline Levitt, the press secretary to the president. saying that, you know, we need to pass this. The president is fully behind us. He is publicly supporting it, actively calling members that may be, you know, wavering on whether or not to support it and convincing them that this is the right strategy to move forward. On the Democrat side, I think it remains to be seen. You have seen several members of the Democratic Party come out and suggest that they are not going to support the CR, which is really confusing to me because they supported it last year. Many of them supported it in September of last year and in December of last year. So to suggest that they’re not supporting it now when we’re not sort of making any cuts, it’s a clean CR, we’re giving some flexibility to DOD, which is actually something that they’ve asked for, doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. And I think at the end, if we don’t get Democrats to support a clean CR, what are they going to support? I think that just indicates that they would prefer a government shutdown. They would prefer chaos. And that is certainly something that Republicans are not interested in seeing in the future.
SPEAKER 05 :
I mean, there’s certainly a lift in the House because you only have one vote to spare. But in the Senate, they’re going to have to have Democratic support to get this across the line.
SPEAKER 10 :
And you’ve already heard senators like Senator Fetterman say that he doesn’t understand why you wouldn’t be supporting a CR, why you would want to shut government down. So I do think that you’re going to have some moderate Democrats that will get on board in the Senate and will not let this government cease to operate.
SPEAKER 05 :
Congressman Bice, I want to thank you for joining us today. Thanks for your insight on the process as it is unfolding this week.
SPEAKER 10 :
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right, folks, it’s going to be interesting to see. I do think that in my conversation with the speaker over the weekend that they have the votes in the House. And again, this is actually cutting back some spending overall, about 13 billion in domestic cuts, some of that being shifted to defense, but still overall a cut. All right, coming up, some extremely disturbing reports out of Syria over the weekend where thousands have been killed. We’re going to discuss that after the break. Don’t go away. More Washington Watch straight ahead.
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During these challenging times for our nation, Family Research Council continues to serve as a watchman on the wall for faith, family, and freedom. And together, thanks to your support, we’re making an eternal impact. 2024 was a year of shining the light for biblical truth in Washington, D.C. Last fall, over 1,000 spiritually active, governance-engaged conservatives gathered for the Pray, Vote, Stand Summit to pray for our nation and ensure that the issues impacting sage cons were understood and advanced. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins marked a major milestone this year, its 900th episode, and added the Washington Watch News Desk, a new production that presents the top news each day from a biblical worldview. The Washington Stand published 2,000 articles of news, commentary, and podcasts in 2024, garnering over 5 million views. FRC’s outlet for news and commentary continues to pursue the truth on the issues that matter most to you and your family. And with the launch of the Stand Firm app, you can listen to, watch, and read our content in one simple place. Pray for current issues, stay rooted in the scriptures, and engage the political sphere with the community of believers on our new platform. In 2024, FRC shaped public policy and culture, organizing the National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance, where members of Congress and Christian leaders came together to seek God’s intervention in America. In May, FRC called upon believers to pray for and stand with Israel by dedicating a portion of their worship services to pray for Israel’s peace, prosperity, and protection. With Pray, Vote, Stand Decision 2024, FRC and Real Life Network led a powerful evening of election night coverage to analyze the election results and pray that our nation would turn back to God. We also filmed a transformative educational course, God and Government. Available now on the Stand Firm app, this series will explore the biblical and historical foundations of our government, empowering you to stand confidently in your role as a citizen of heaven and earth. Family Research Council thanks you for partnering with us in standing for faith, family, and freedom.
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Looking to grow closer to God in the new year? FRC’s Stand on the Word spiral-bound journal is here to help. Dive deeper into Scripture with thought-provoking questions, note-taking space, and context for each book and author. This second edition, covering Isaiah 2 Revelation, will guide you in tracking your journey through God’s Word while deepening your faith in Christ. Order now at frc.org slash store or text journal to 67742. Perfect for you and your loved ones.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us on this Monday. The website, TonyPerkins.com. Better yet, check out the Stand Firm app. Go to the App Store and get the Stand Firm app where you can take Washington Watch with you no matter where you go. You can also have access to our Washington Stand, our news and commentary from a biblical perspective. So get the Stand Firm app. All right. This weekend in the Middle East, Syria in particular, reports of more than a thousand people in northwest Syria in just two days were killed. According to extremely disturbing reports, the violence perpetrated by the terrorist group HTS that overthrew the former Assad regime was targeting former groups, minority groups aligned with Assad. Now, interestingly enough, Assad, who was a dictator, he actually protected the Christian minority population. Well, there are reports that dozens and dozens, hundreds of Christians have been killed over the weekend, and the numbers we’re told, may be much higher than what the press is reporting. Here to discuss this, Charmaine Heading, the president of the Shai Fund. Charmaine has worked for 20 years in the development of this nonprofit sector, focusing on the protection of persecuted minorities in the Middle East and Africa. Charmaine, welcome to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 14 :
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. So there were many that said, oh, well, this is great. We got Assad out and we got this more moderate Islamist in. The guy’s a terrorist, HTS Giuliani. He is. I mean, the evidence over the weekend says this is this is al Qaeda. This is ISIS. I mean, they’re just randomly killing people they consider to be opposed to them.
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I think that the Israeli government on their ex-feed said it really well. Just because he put on a suit doesn’t change who he is. He’s a jihadist. And these mass killings that have happened indiscriminately across the coastal plains of Syria prove it.
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All right. So give us the latest. I know you are on the ground in the Middle East. You have contacts there. What are we hearing? Because some of the press reports are a bit muddled coming out.
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Yeah, we’ve been talking, I’ve been talking to people in Syria the entire weekend. And just a few hours ago, I received testimonies on family members that have survived. And basically what they have to say is absolutely horrific, that both HDS and SNA, which are are basically two Turkish proxy militias that have taken over Syria. They either walked into these towns where the Christians and Alawites and other religious minorities or components of Syria live and started shooting them from the motorbikes or going into their homes. and shooting them, and basically they’re civilians, a lot of them, women and children, just because they are Alawites or Christians and they didn’t cause trouble or they might have, you know, been the same religion as the Assad regime doesn’t make everyone necessarily worth being killed, and that’s what they’re doing. They’re just saying, we’re going to kill you.
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So, Charmaine, is this driven by religion, the fact that they are not Muslims and they’re not aligned with the Muslim, now Islamic, government?
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It’s exactly that. They are not aligned with the Sunni interpretation that HDS and SNA have, which is a radical jihadist ideology. SNA is built up mostly from former ISIS terrorists, and HDS, as we know, is Jabhat al-Nusra, which is al-Qaeda. This is who we’re talking about.
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Now, as you, as we mentioned, Israel has been tracking this. They’ve been saying from the start, don’t be misled by the fact that they’re talking more moderate. They might put on a suit, but these are still terrorists. And the actions of what we saw over the weekend speak very clearly to that.
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Yeah, I think Israel came out already as soon as they took over and was very clear and direct that these are jihadi groups. They are terrorists. They haven’t proven by any action that they are in any way democratic. In fact, Jelani or al-Sharah, who’s the head… of HDS has dissolved the constitution. He’s made himself a dictator. He was supposed to put in a new interim constitution on the 1st of March. He’s now saying it’s delayed. There’s no constitution at the moment. There’s an interim government that has got jihadis from Idlib inside of it, as well as foreign fighters that are loyal to HDS. This is a scary scenario for Israel. It’s a jihadi group on our border and we can’t afford, Israel cannot afford to let them anywhere near our civilian population because they will do the same thing as what they’ve done on the coastal plains.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and this is why, from the start, IDF forces were destroying the stockpiles of weapons that Syria had in store. In fact, in my meeting last week with the prime minister, he said, look, Christians are being killed. They’re being targeted in Syria. We’re trying to protect them. In fact, Israel has created some buffer zone. They’re protecting some of the Druze communities right there on the border. And so they understand that they’re at risk, but they’re also willing to protect Christians. And I think the United States can be very clear about this, that we will hold the HTS responsible for anything that happens to these minority communities there in Syria.
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Exactly. And I was really happy to see Rubio’s statement that he made on it. He was really clear. He stated exactly that, that we should be supporting the religious minorities and protecting them, and that we shouldn’t give these jihadis a pass. And this is exactly what Israel has been saying. So my hope is that we will be able to work together in order to protect them and definitely to support the areas like in the southern area close to Israel, and like in the northeast Syria, which is the democratic autonomous administration that’s run by the SDF, which is where our coalition forces, American coalition forces are situated, will be able to work together to block this Turkish terrorist-backed expansion by HTS and SNA.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, we don’t have time to go into it, but I think it’s very important for everyone to understand that Turkey is backing this. This is this is advanced by Turkey. And I know that Turkey is smuggling weapons into even into Judea and Samaria. They’re doing everything they can. And this is a NATO, quote unquote, ally. The United States needs to speak very clearly to that. But Charmaine, very quickly, 30 seconds left. How can folks find out more about your ministry and your help of the persecuted?
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, we’re directly involved giving assistance on the ground in Syria right now as we speak with some of these survivors. We also have ongoing projects that are working in the areas that are more democratic. And you can join us at fleshlinefund.org.
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All right. We’ll encourage folks to check that out and be supportive of what you’re doing. Charmaine, thanks for being with us. All right, folks, on the other side of the break, the Missouri Attorney General joins us. Don’t go away.
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At the 2025 National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance, hundreds gathered with Christian and government leaders at the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C. to pray for the nation and ask God to forgive us of our sins.
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We gather here not to appeal to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. We are appealing to heaven. Today we make our appeal not in the authority of a political party or in the name of a denomination. We come in the name and the authority of Jesus Christ. who has been given all authority in heaven and on earth, and we have been commissioned to operate in that authority.
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Father, we pray in Jesus’ name for our complacency, our greed, our pride, our gluttony, our sloth, and tolerance of sin.
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Lord, your word is the food that can make America healthy again. May your word be exalted and believed in our nation again.
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Lord, we ask that you allow us to become that shining city on the hill once more for your love, your grace, and your mercy.
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Thank you for your love and your grace and your mercy, for the opportunity that you have provided us to heal our land. We ask you to do it, Lord. We ask you for the wisdom, discernment, and stamina to do the thing that you have called each one of us, all of us here, to do. May we be found faithful. We trust it, pray it, believe it all in Jesus’ name. Amen.
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All right. It feels good to be back behind the microphone sitting in my own chair here in the studio. It was a great week last week. And again, I’ll talk more about that throughout the week. But good to be back in the States. All right. I was given notice of this over the weekend. This is huge. All right. A historic judgment on a lawsuit coming out of Missouri seems to affirm what we’ve known for a long time, that COVID-19 pandemic, that it began in China, And the information was suppressed by China. They tried to cover it up. The lawsuit was filed by the state of Missouri against Chinese entities, including the Chinese Communist Party and the Wuhan Institute. The judgment worth $24 billion says that the state proved that China caused and exacerbated the COVID-19 pandemic, harming Missourians. So what does this mean for Missouri and for America? Will this open a floodgate of other lawsuits against China and will China pay? Well, here to answer those questions is the attorney general for the state of Missouri, Andrew Bailey, who filed the lawsuit. A.G. Bailey, welcome back to Washington Watch. Congratulations.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you, sir. Appreciate you having me on.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, you’ve been busy. Provide a little more detail on this court case that you’ve won against China for unleashing COVID on the world.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Tony, look, Americans and certainly Missourians are still demanding justice for all the harms inflicted upon them during the COVID-19 pandemic. We know it started in China. We know that they suppressed information that was relevant to the world’s reaction to unleashing that pandemic on the rest of us. And then they created and hoarded the PPE that the state of Missouri and other states needed to respond to the pandemic. We were harmed to the tune of $24 billion, and that’s what the court has now found. My predecessor, Eric Schmidt, initially filed the lawsuit. It was dismissed at the trial court level. I appealed, won at the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals, and we just had a trial in late January where we put on all the evidence, and the court agreed that Missourians are owed 24 billion with a B dollars. by the Chinese Communist Party and all the entities named as defendants because of the wrongs. And there’s a method by which this is redressed. It’s called the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act. It was a statute passed by Congress in 1976, signed into law by President Gerald Ford that specifically allows states to redress grievances against foreign entities. And I’m never going to stop fighting for justice for Missourians based on the wrongs perpetrated during COVID-19.
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I mean, there’s several questions come to mind, General Bailey. One is you did this. Why didn’t our federal government do it? But, of course, we know we had an administration that was favorable to China. But secondly, as I’m I think this is the first that we’ve seen. So you’re the very first that has successfully sued and won a case against communist China. Do you think others will follow your lead?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, certainly this is a blueprint for other states to follow. And again, it’s not some crackpot legal theory. There’s a federal statute on the books that allows the states to do this. I would encourage all the states to look at how their apparatus of state government performed during COVID and the wrongs that were perpetrated by the Chinese government against them and redress those grievances on behalf of the people of their states. We know that the Biden administration was complicit in the cover-up during COVID. I mean, from the start to the finish of the Biden administration, when they were censoring speech related to COVID on big tech social media platforms, thereby exacerbating the harms of the pandemic, to Biden’s final hours of pardoning Dr. Anthony Fauci, who, again, many Americans look to as the poster child for all the wrongs of COVID-19. And so it is important for states to take action. It’s important for Missouri to lead the way, and I’m proud to have done so in this instance.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, for China, this is an ill fortune cookie because, I mean, this is $26 billion just for the state of Missouri. Now, will they pay, or $24 billion, will they pay? And if not, how can you get this from China?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it’s a great question. I remain skeptical that China will actually pay this judgment. I mean, they never participated in litigation despite the fact that they’re doing business in Missouri, doing business across the United States of America, and thus are subjecting themselves to the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act. They declined to participate in the litigation despite the fact that they were served with notice and had an opportunity to put on any defenses. I don’t think they have any mitigating evidence, and that’s why they didn’t participate. They know that they did wrong. They know they harmed Missourians and the United States of America and the entire world. And they’re going to try to get out of paying by running and hiding. But we’re going to find Chinese-owned assets in Missouri and across the United States of America, and we’re going to use the legal apparatus of the state and federal government to seize and sell those assets to execute that judgment that we’ve now obtained to the tune of $24 billion.
SPEAKER 05 :
So let’s talk about those assets. I mean, we’re not talking about the products on Walmart shelves that are all made in China. We’re talking about they own farmland. They own industries. I mean, they’ve bought up a lot of hard assets in the United States.
SPEAKER 03 :
China is heavily invested in real and personal property in the United States of America, and certainly they have used subterfuge to conceal the line of ownership of several of those assets. We will penetrate that subterfuge, find those responsible, hold them accountable, take those assets, and again, sell them to make Missourians whole again. Missouri is owed a debt here, and China is going to pay up on that debt one way or the other.
SPEAKER 05 :
A final question for you, General Bailey. What’s the timeframe on this? When do you believe you could actually start seizing some of this property?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there’s a short period of time in which the court allows that judgment to sit and any notices of appeal to be filed before the judgment becomes final. We’re waiting on that clock to expire. It’s a matter of a few weeks. And then we’ll start identifying assets and moving to seize those assets. China needs to do the right thing and pay the people of the state of Missouri. But if they fail to do so, we will be prepared to take action. We’ll do so hastily.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, this could be huge, and I hope it’s just the first of many dominoes to fall because I hope, as you’ve led in so many other areas as the Attorney General of Missouri, I hope other states will follow your lead here as well. General Bailey, thanks so much for joining us today, and again, congratulations on another win.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thanks, Tony. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER 05 :
All right. I tell you, he’s getting it done on so many fronts. Need more AGs like that. All right, coming up next, Dr. Al Mohler joins me to discuss the state of Christian persecution around the world and whether or not we should be concerned. Don’t go away.
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What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful 13-part series that equips you with biblical truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. From the Ten Commandments in classrooms to the immigration crisis of America, we’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. New episodes available each Monday. To view the series on the Stand Firm app, text COURSE to 67742.
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The world is hurting, streets are filled with crime, families are broken, sin is celebrated, and God is mocked. Everywhere we look, the wages of our sin are on full display. As Christians, we know that surrender to God’s will is the solution to our biggest problems, but not everyone agrees. Even in church, we hear people say the most important thing is to be tolerant, that we shouldn’t impose a morality on other people, and that loving our neighbor means celebrating what they do. But you can’t do that. It’s not that you don’t love your neighbor. You do. But you care about God’s opinion more than your neighbor’s opinion, and this makes you different. In fact, sometimes it makes you feel alone, like you’re the only one. But there is good news. You are not alone, not even close. Research has found that there are 59 million American adults who are a lot like you. There are millions of people around the country who are born again, deeply committed to practicing their faith, and believe the Bible is the reliable Word of God. But that’s not all. They’re also engaged in our government. They’re voters. They’re more likely to be involved in their community, and they’re making a difference in elections. The problem is that a lot of them feel alone, too. We want to change that. FRC wants to connect these 59 million Americans to speak the truth together, no matter the cost. If you want to learn more about this group and what it means to be a spiritually active, governance-engaged conservative, or if you want to find out if you are one of these sage cons yourself, go to frc.org slash sagecon and take the quiz to find out. The world is hurting, and we have the solution. We can’t do it alone, but we can do it if we work together. That’s what we’re working toward every day. Join us. Go to FRC.org slash S-A-G-E-C-O-N, SageCon, to learn more. That’s S-A-G-E-C-O-N, SageCon, to learn more.
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All right, let me remind you, the fourth episode of our God and Government series is out today. Is America a Christian nation? What does history reveal? And how did the Bible shape the founding of our nation? You can find out by watching exclusively on the Stand Firm app. You don’t have the app yet? Well, text COURSE to 67742. That’s COURSE to 67742. And we’ll send you a link to access the God and Government course. Our word for today comes from Jeremiah 48, where the prophet declares the reasons for the upcoming destruction of Moab. For because you trusted in your works and your treasures, you also shall be taken, and Chemosh shall go into exile with his priests and his officials. And then verse 29, we have heard of the pride of Moab. He is very proud of his loftiness, his pride and his arrogance and the haughtiness of his heart. You know, there are common characteristics among the nations that God has judged. They trusted in their works, a reference to their military strength and might, their walls and fortifications. They trusted in their treasuries, their economic strength. As long as the Moab stock exchange was gaining, they thought they were fine. They trusted in the false demonic gods which they had crafted in their own fallen image. They magnified themselves against God with pride. We are greater than God, they said. Well, when a nation goes down this path, the destination will ultimately be the same, destruction. That’s why God says walk humbly before our God. To find out more about our journey through the Bible, text BIBLE to 67742. That’s BIBLE to 67742. The Trump administration’s America-first approach to foreign policy has long led many on the left to accuse it of fueling a new isolationist strain in American politics, even during President Trump’s first term. And while this characterization is off the mark, It is something to be on guard against because the U.S. does have a role and a responsibility on the world stage. And there are some speaking into this president and this administration that think America should just not be involved. anywhere, and that we should only care for ourselves. And America first does not mean America only. And among America’s obligations should be the defense of what our nation’s founders identified as the first freedom, the freedom of religion. In particular, that we should, as a nation founded on Christian principles and biblical truth, we should advocate for Christians around the globe when they are persecuted by tyrants and terrorists. Joining me now to discuss this is Dr. Albert Moeller, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. and the host of The Briefing. He’s also the editor of World Opinions and the author of many, many books, including Prophet, Priest, and King, which actually comes out next month. Dr. Moeller, welcome back to Washington Watch. Good to see you again.
SPEAKER 04 :
As always, great to be with you, Tony.
SPEAKER 05 :
I want to jump into this because I want, as believers, I want them to understand our role and responsibility, number one, as believers, but number two, as American believers. But before we do that, breaking news today out of the United States Supreme Court, the Supreme Court announcing that it is going to take a case from Colorado to decide whether states and local governments can enforce laws that actually prohibit therapy counseling for children, LGBTQ children. So essentially this started, I think, in California, the first state. Now about half the states in the nation have these prohibitions where even if a parent wants their child to get counseling for gender dysphoria, it’s against the law.
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Right. You know, this is going all the way back to the revolutionary origins of the LGBTQ movement, and in particular the idea that they want to think that any opposition is, first of all, described as something they would dismiss as homophobia, or secondly, is rooted in hate and thus needs to be expunged and can be legally limited. and so we have seen this in state after state and you know tony you set this up exactly right the you know here you have a law that says that even if parents even if the teenager herself or himself wants christian-based therapy based upon a biblical understanding that that would be forbidden And so you have the medical health industry hijacked on behalf of the LGBTQ revolution. Something that, by the way, you and I both know went back to two meetings in the early 1970s when, for instance, the American Psychiatric Association one day believed that homosexuality was a mental disorder and the next day said that it was not. That’s not exactly what I would call science.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and they don’t even want to talk about it. They can’t defend the position, so we can’t have studies, we can’t debate it, and now we can’t have Christian counselors or secular counselors help people work through the issues, which we know actually works. Now, I find it very interesting, Dr. Moeller, that we have half the states… that have a prohibition against counseling for gender dysphoria. And then we have another half of the states which have outlawed the experimental use of drugs and surgeries for minors that have gender dysphoria. So it’s just very interesting. I think such a picture of a divided nation where ideologically you have one that won’t even let you have conversational therapy about this confusion that is going on within you, but they want to be able to do irreversible surgeries and drug treatments. It’s amazing.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and the red and blue America divide shows up on this very issue. I mean, you rightly mentioned the division between the states, and you can pretty much map that by color on the electoral map. And that shows you that it really does matter in a state-by-state basis Who who is representing which worldview and it shows you that clash of worldviews is there in every single issue in every single election. And so, you know, you and I both know it’s not accidental that red and blue America map out this way and and by the way is leading to a very interesting phenomenon. where you have people moving from red to blue and blue to red based upon these very issues.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and this is where I think this is headed, Dr. Mueller. I think you’re going to have tax policies that will be reflective of this. I think you’re going to have states that embrace life, a biblical view of life, a biblical view of human sexuality, a biblical view of family, a biblical view of private property, i.e. taxation, and they’re going to prosper. And it’s going to be attractive to others, but there’s going to be a temptation to modify those laws based upon the migration of those leaving those blue states. So it’s something we’ve got to constantly be aware of.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, you know, in Texas right now, they’re bragging about, and justifiably so, the movement of companies such as Tesla and others moving vast production facilities to places like Austin, Texas. But Austin’s become a deep blue dot in a very red state. And you know the way that voting patterns work. This is something you have to worry about. As one put it, put it, you know, they’re moving from California and bringing their voting patterns with them. That’s not good news.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, no. And we kind of experienced a reverse of that in my home state of Louisiana back when Katrina kind of moved a lot of New Orleans out and dispersed them across the country. They used to control every statewide election, but not now. Not anymore. And Louisiana is challenging. Oklahoma, I think, is one of the reddest states. All right. Let’s get to foreign policy issues, Dr. Mueller, because I really want to get your thoughts on this, because I think Christians need to work through this because there is this isolationist. view that I think is coming into the conservative movement through the libertarian push that is coming within the conservative movement. And let me just be very clear at the out front, not for you, you know this, Christian and conservative are not the same. Libertarian and conservative are not the same. Much different worldviews. But as Christians, Number one, do we have an obligation to advocate for, speak up for our persecuted brothers and sisters? And then second to that, Dr. Moeller, as Christians living in America that have the resources to do something, should we?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you lay that out in such a way, yes, I think clearly. It’s a pre-political obligation for Christians to contend for Christians and to work for the safety of Christians in other parts of the world suffering persecution. We don’t have to look to a contemporary authority for that. We have the Book of Acts. We have the New Testament. So you make that first point just exceedingly well. We’ve got to contend for not just the freedom of religion. We have to contend for the lives and liberties of our Christian brothers and sisters. wherever they may be found all over the world. And persecution in the 21st century is as real as persecution in the first century as reflected in the New Testament. And the United States has a particular burden on this. I mean, for one thing, we’re one of the few forces of good in the world that can make a difference speaking into these issues. And this is where the United States has made the issue of protecting religious liberty a criterion for its relationship with foreign nations. And we must continue to do that.
SPEAKER 05 :
And those are, as you pointed out, those are kind of… two related but separate things. Number one, I do believe in God. I think we saw this in the Garden of Eden. He is about people having choices. He’s not forcing himself on anyone. Freedom of religion is a hallmark. It is a defining element of America, and it’s something in the previous Trump administration, it was their number one foreign policy under Secretary Pompeo. But as Christians, it goes a step further. We shouldn’t hesitate to advocate for Christians who, by the way, happen to be the most targeted persecuted group around the world. And so to differentiate between Christians and others should not be a hesitation coming from Christians.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, absolutely. Again, I think that’s a New Testament mandate, and I think we not only pray for our brothers and sisters suffering persecution, but we’re called to do whatever we can to try to prevent and alleviate that persecution. And, you know, Tony, I think we need to be honest. In the last 100 years, The main energies behind the persecution of Christians have been, number one, communism and communist regimes, which continues to be fully represented in North Korea and China, and then Islam. Islamic-dominated nations tend to be extremely, extremely dangerous for Christian witness.
SPEAKER 05 :
If I’m not mistaken, was it when Paul commended, I think it was the Thessalonians for actually taking up money to help the other church members that were being persecuted. So, I mean, it is actually not just praying, but it’s actually giving of our means to help others who are suffering as a result of the persecution like we see right now, right happening just over this weekend in Syria. I was last week in Israel. I mentioned this early in the program. I met with the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. He brought this issue up. He said the Christians are being persecuted. They’re being targeted by HTS in Syria. We’re doing what we can to try and protect them. We should be applauding that and we should be helping them in doing that.
SPEAKER 04 :
As a matter of fact, yes, absolutely. And I think we should also make it an issue of conditionality for American support and American aid. And furthermore, a matter of threat for American action in terms of holding regimes accountable for the treatment of Christians all over the world. And so, yeah, you’re absolutely right. Christians shouldn’t be reluctant, especially Christians in the United States, to speak out and call our government to be an agent for the protection of believers around the world.
SPEAKER 05 :
You know, I actually think when you look back, that has been a part of the leverage that the United States has used to protect Christians under the Assad regime. I mean, he was a bad dictator, but he pretty much left the Christians alone because he knew that was a red line for the United States. We saw this with some of the other regimes in the Middle East, the same thing. My concern, and I’m going to ask you this. I’m honestly asking you this question. I’m not making a statement here. There is this movement that I referenced earlier of this isolationism that does not see any… reason for America to be involved, that we need to protect our own treasure, we need to protect our own everything we have. And while the president has clearly articulated a concern for the persecution of Christians, I am concerned, I personally am concerned about some who are speaking into this administration about trying not to be involved internationally, even if it comes down to a red line of Christian persecution.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, Tony, you’re absolutely right. And I think I would be the front line of arguing that the neoliberal interventionism that had so possessed the United States over the course of the last 40 or 50 years, it has proved itself to be unworkable. Our massive investments of blood and treasure all over the world in causes that we declared won only to have them lost again are a grave warning against believing that we can just make our will wherever we want it around the world. But you are very, very right to point to the fact that the opposite of that or the corrective of that is not total withdrawal from the world scene, as if that could happen. You know, the old Marxist statement, you may not be interested in history, but history is interested in you. There’s no way for the United States to withdraw totally from intervening in situations all over the world. And, you know, even the people who say that will call for intervention in another situation the day after they make the first statement. And it’s because it is impossible for the United States to fail to intervene where it wills to intervene. I think the argument is, where should we seek the U.S. to direct its attention and intervention? And the persecution of believers around the world is a place where we need to be right there in the front ranks.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I describe myself as a rational isolationist. I don’t want to get involved in other people’s business unless I absolutely have to. But there are certain red lines. And involvement does not mean military. I’m not a military veteran. I was in the Marine Corps. I don’t believe we should be sending our troops everywhere. But as you pointed out, there are other means. There are sanctions. There’s isolating these people from the world community by doing this. But we need to make clear. That’s right. And I thought Ronald Reagan was pretty good at doing this when he was president and Donald Trump as well. But I do think that we need to have a clear set of principles that would say there are certain things we will not tolerate. And the persecution of believers is one of them. Final word.
SPEAKER 04 :
And we need to have a list of the good guys and the bad guys. And, you know, the U.S. State Department really has that responsibility. It even comes down to a special ambassador post. for international religious freedom and a commission that has full status in the United States government charged with that responsibility. And, you know, the list of the nice nations and the naughty nations ought to be more than just a matter of publicity. It ought to be a matter of guiding foreign policy.
SPEAKER 05 :
It absolutely should. And we’re going to have to leave it there. Dr. Al Mohler, always great to see you. And folks, thank you for joining us as well. Until next time, just keep standing.
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Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
