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Join us as we delve into the riveting experiences of Carl Leppard, a Marine veteran who served during the Vietnam War. In this episode, Carl shares unheard stories from decisive battles such as the one at the Cottey River, shining a light on the tenacity and skill required to overcome them. Discover how his experiences overlapped with some of the highest commanders in the Marine Corps, leading to obscure but significant victories that shaped military strategies.
SPEAKER 01 :
world war ii korea vietnam the gulf war afghanistan and her other wars and conflicts america’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty we must never forget them Welcome to America’s veteran stories with Kim Munson. These stories will touch your heart, inspire you and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Munson.
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteransStories.com. The show comes to you because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans back to Normandy, France for the 72nd anniversary of the D-Day landings. I returned stateside realizing that we need to know these stories. We need to record them and broadcast them and archive them. So hence America’s Veterans Stories. Very pleased to have on the line with me Carl Leppard. And this is part two of our interview with Carl Leppard because there’s so much to talk about on his experiences as a Marine serving in the Vietnam War. Carl Leppard, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thank you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Now, when we finished up part one of our interview, we were talking about a battle at the Cottey River. And is there anything else that we need to know about that particular battle? Because you were on one side of the river, and what, approximately 20 of your colleagues were on the other side. And if the North Vietnamese and the Chinese would have been able to get across that bridge, they would have annihilated our forces, correct?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yeah. I didn’t, of course, know that at the time. But, pardon me. Our TAOR, our Tactical Area Responsibility, particularly at this time, because we were just fresh into Vietnam in a few months, right? The Vietnamese were very strict. You did not go out of your area of responsibility. And second, at that time was General Wallace, or sorry, General Walt, right? He has his orders, and you do not cross that line. Now, I was illegal on the other side of that bridge. So the Marine Corps would deny anything that happened over there. But when the general, and I’m saying the general himself, got the mayday call from me, because that must be hand given to him by Marine Corps regulations, he is the person to get it orally in his hand, regardless of the time. So when he saw that there was a raider in trouble, and he was a former raider, he sent me the best he had, his two destroyers. So… It would have been good for the Marine Corps not to know anything about this battle over there, and they went to extreme lengths to hide it.
SPEAKER 08 :
But, Carl, just a quick question, though. If you had not been illegally on the other side of that river, they would not have been stopped. The enemy would not have been stopped, at least.
SPEAKER 02 :
I wouldn’t be on this phone.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 02 :
I mean, we’re done here. I mean, 20 people. The thing is, is that the north side of our TAOR is the Cottey River. An enemy force, they were not enemy forces per se in any quantity north. But if they were able to amass some forces to the north, there was nothing to stop them from attacking the Da Nang airfield. So we do know now in only, I think, since maybe 2019, 18, at a Marine Corps reunion where I found the source of all these records, do we now know? what occurred. Back then, I killed a lot of people. That’s very true. And that’s a matter of normal business. I hate to say normal, but we do our jobs and don’t really think much about anything else. It’s not my business. I don’t clean up that battlefield. That’s somebody else’s business. But we do know that the 7th, the Strike Force Battalion, made a very lengthy envelopment from the south all the way around the edges of our TOR in the mountains on our 10 miles to our west, and then came down on the plain of the Cottey, sorry, of the plain above the Cottey River Bridge, and the battalion records show exactly that. That’s part that they did not find to redact, okay? And they did redact entire sections of the record. They’re totally blacked out. So I was not aware of any of this piece of business, but this force hit us. I was not aware of how many. When I got illumination, I knew we were in trouble because I could see— Listen, there were one hell of a lot of NBA. Now, NBA is different. North Vietnamese Army, okay? Those are professional paid soldiers, right? And they’re wearing khaki and khaki helmets and so forth, and they’re formed in an order of march. This is highly unusual. They are moving. Now we know that they’re a strike battalion, which means that they don’t have anything but fully automatic weapons, demolitions. These people are killers. They’re coming. Fortunately, you know, I saw they were a rather large force here, and the general had sent me the first destroyer, the Craig. We got on them immediately. They were very close to the bridge. They could have started to cross. And I put HEVT, or Fused Quick, as they say in the Navy, over that element. And they were desperately trying to silence me, of course, but I had moved. And they were then trapped under this enormous pounding. So I pounded them for about five hours as they moved back to their original location. And I put 250 rounds down. of HEV to your fuse quick on their last position, totally destroying any and all that were left. So that was my business, and I took care of it.
SPEAKER 08 :
So, Carl Leppard, I’m going to ask you a real novice question. But here you are. You’re on the side of the bridge. It’s just you. This is a big forest with the illumination. You realize that there is a lot of enemy there. How… How do you get it so exact when you called in the destroyer? Because in World War II, my understanding is you had to have observers to try to get the coordinates figured out. So how could you, under intense pressure in a battle, make that communication and get that location right?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, that’s one of the reasons Lieutenant Reeder sent me over there. I mean— You know, technically I was a forwarded observer, qualified. I mean, I went to map and arrow photo school. I carried my map case everywhere I went. I knew grid locations or fire concentrations of artillery, where they were, what their frequencies were. And if we back up to Okinawa, where I was on the range there, I… I regulated and controlled air attacks and so forth and bombing missions in coordination with artillery and so forth. So, you know, you had a person actually here that’s well-schooled. I’m looking as an observer of Carl Leppard. I mean, I’m looking at him. And he’s extremely qualified for this particular piece of business.
SPEAKER 08 :
So it’s with great confidence. You call in the destroyers, and you push the enemy back, but it took five hours. So what happens after that, Carl?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I mean, I followed them until they were destroyed, but I ended up at the— uh… say regional force there north of the bridge which is uh… they call the battalion but it was uh… a local militia i mean uh… and i had a uh… vietnamese uh… uh… uh… army uh… sergeant with me sergeant t he broke off to tell the vietnamese uh… they were located there near the beach uh… and that would be about oh three-eighths of a mile, maybe half a mile up the beach from where I started, okay? And I was out in front of them to the west about 50 yards or so, so I could see the impact areas and control that fire. So I retired after that through all of the remains of that battalion, if that’s what you want to say.
SPEAKER 08 :
And what was the date?
SPEAKER 02 :
I had no idea. There could still be some people alive here. I was only by myself, so it was kind of dangerous.
SPEAKER 08 :
Kind of. What was the date of this battle?
SPEAKER 02 :
28th and 29th of July, 1965. Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
So what happens then after that?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, in the morning, I mean, I went back to my original position and… when I had dismissed the ships. Listen, this is Navy thing here. Once the ships are giving artillery commands, or sorry, naval gunfire commands by a person on the beach, okay, that person is in control of those ships. If I put them on the bottom, they go. They came in shallow for me, as shallow as they could get without beaching themselves, and they risked their ships to support my element, which was the 20 Marines on the other side, of course. So… they do not control this battlefield. The person on the beach controls them. He’s the commander. He’s ultimately responsible for every round fired. So God knows who the man was on this beach. Regardless of how you try to hide it, no one pulls the trigger on a destroyer without God knowing his name. okay so this battle was completely hidden that’s no problem i don’t really particularly uh care marine corps records begin in 1965 kind of after this occurred they don’t go back that far okay and any record of it was uh pretty much expunged but we were able to find a record from the commanding general Walt to his regimental commander informing him that a battalion of Viet Cong was attacking my position, that two companies were engaged, and that he had deployed destroyers. That remains on the record. In naval gunfire, they start from the first round they fire and go forward. I think this starts about firing of 101 or something. They cannot expunge or erase what the naval guns shoot. Somebody has to be responsible and accountable. So bottom line, that’s all for that.
SPEAKER 08 :
So question, is the reason that this battle is not well known is because you were outside of the TOR?
SPEAKER 02 :
That’s the tactical area of responsibility.
SPEAKER 08 :
area of response also it’s a T.A.R.
SPEAKER 02 :
T.A.O.R. tactical area of responsibility okay is that why it’s not well known perhaps other than the fact that I’m quite sure President Johnson was aware he had told the people we were not engaged right in combat and the Marines actually were second you do not, the general will not allow a violation of the T-A-O-R. It’s a court martial offense. Oh. So the fact that they put me technically just a few feet over the line, across that bridge, was illegal. And because they had killed 300 Chinese, they know because they sent a shore battery to sea. Wow. They even sponge that one, too. But… 300 dead Chinese may have brought the Chinese into the war, so they wanted to bury this deep. We heard something. That’s the Arbenz territory. They may have done something. I mean, look, they took extremes to say we weren’t there, I guess.
SPEAKER 08 :
But it was necessary that you were on the other side of that bridge. This is fascinating, Carl Leppard, a Marine veteran. We’re talking about his experiences in the Vietnam War. I did want to mention the USMC Memorial Foundation. That’s why the work that they’re doing on this remodel of the Marine Memorial is so important. Because we need to remember, we need to honor those that have given their lives or been willing to give their lives for us and our freedom. And so during this holiday season, make a contribution. Go to the USMCMemorialFoundation.org. You’ll get all the information. And make a contribution so that we keep all of this alive and we honor. We honor these stories. We will be right back.
SPEAKER 06 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
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SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. I’m talking with Carl Leppard. He is a Marine veteran from the Vietnam War. This is part two of our interview because he was involved in some very serious battles. And we don’t know about a lot of them. But you have completed this battle at the Coddy River Bridge. And it was a very important battle. And you said the Marine records had not gone back that far. But this battle got the Marines’ attention, yes?
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes. Oh, yes. What’s interesting is the Commandant of the Marine Corps. The Commandant of the Marine Corps’ name was General Wallace M. Green. Okay? And we became, well, intimate. Not necessarily, but professionally intimate. Because I had driven him around for about five days previous in another shore landing and so forth in the United States. All right. And so primarily because I could drive a vehicle. It’s a longer story there. But I could read a map in the general, regardless of time of day or night, if he wanted to be on a particular location, I was to put him there. So I was very efficient at that. So the general knows who I am, aside from him having probably a photographic memory. Now we come to the Cottey River Bridge. Trust me, the commandant of the Marine Corps knows, so does the fleet commander. You do not pull the trigger on destroyers like this in a combat situation without everyone all the way back to the White House knowing it. Okay. So what’s happening next, if we fast forward.
SPEAKER 08 :
Just a quick question on that, Carl. If you’re in battle, you need to be able to react almost immediately. Yes. So with the commandant, the fleet commander.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, he reads. And I mean General Green reads. He gets a report from the commanding general forces there every day and maybe several times. Our fleet commander as well. I mean, Krulak, Victor Krulak, he knows exactly what goes on. I mean, if the general asks him, yes, that’s Carl Leffert. I mean, please.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. Okay, great. Okay, good. So the commandant, the fleet commander, they’re all aware of this. So what do we need to know?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, what happens is, and I will just tell you this in advance, there was a number of times in my military career that we crossed paths with a commandant of the Marine Corps. So when your name pops up several times there, he knows precisely who that person is. So this next battle is called Chulai, and it occurred on the 18th of August. So then there’ll be another one at Le Bon. These battles were recorded, but specifically the general, the commandant of the Marine Corps, got the report that came from me. Then finally, when he’s leaving the Marine Corps, I’m on the drill field, he spots me again. So anyway, it’s interesting.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. So what happens?
SPEAKER 02 :
So what happened was is that this battle, this movement of Marines down to what an area called Chu Lai, which is Krulak’s name in Chinese, actually has nothing to do with Vietnam. It’s his name, not a village or whatever. So they’re preparing to— engage the 1st Regiment, VC Regiment down there, because the Arvin troops in May had been wiped out further south at a place called Quang Nai. But in any case, there were about, there were, I can be actually exact, there were 16,000 uh, enemy forces, uh, from July, uh, on down. Okay. So, um, we needed to get in there. We had, um, two battalions down there, second battalion, fourth Marines and a new airfield and first battalion, fourth Marines. And they were located about no five miles further North, uh, on the beach. Okay. Okay. So this battle was supposed to happen on August the 10th, but we got hit on the bridge, and that scared the holy hell out of the Marine Corps, so they sent 3rd Battalion 9th Marines onto the airfield instead. Okay, so now the battle is scheduled for the 18th. They are short about 250 men down there. So they robbed different battalions of men to fill in to where we could bring those units up to full strength. I was sent down to Hotel 24 with machine guns, etc., to fortify that unit. My company, we went down together, our Raider company, H23, went down to fill their positions of H24 while they were engaged and to protect the west flank of this division, which is very important because no one knows anything about what I’ve just said. Everything is shiny and rosy if you read about our battle down there, but it was never that way. We actually could have been hurt real bad. But in any case, we’re down there. I’m there on the 17th. We went into battle on the 18th about 7.30 in the morning. We had about, from records, we see that we lost about 90 people before 11 o’clock. So we hit, landed about 7.45. We had taken about three-quarter casualties of the company before 11. Oh, my gosh. I was hit coming out of the helicopter, and there’s where the problem started. My machine gunner got hit twice. The gun itself got hit and was destroyed. I got hit running in my right boot heel, which I thought my leg was blown off, and attempting to stand. I couldn’t. I got hit in the helmet. My helmet was connected by a chin strap. It knocked me out cold for a time. I really don’t know how long, but I tried to pursue our company by following the blood trail of our dead, etc., and I never connected with them or saw them ever again. So now what happens is that we had a division-size operation here of some consequence. I guess what the readers would not be able to follow me, I’m afraid, but… The bulk of the force itself, the major concentration of enemy forces, was where H24 landed. They engaged to the east of them a hill called Nam Yen 3. There was a hill to the west of that called Hill 43. that they didn’t take it. And so when they engaged Nam Yen 3, they got hit and then also hit from the rear. I came in on the second flight, right, of helicopters. First flight, a lot of those were seriously down, smoking or burning, and a lot of chaos going on, a lot of shooting, you know. And so they had my platoon, second platoon, engage that hill 43. And then they went off doing that somewhere. I’m laying in the sand face down somewhere. And I followed to that hill. I knew where we were supposed to go. And when I got there, nobody was there. I was nearly out of ammunition. I was robbing some of the people who were rocket men or our machine gunners that were dead, to getting their pistols, ammunition, anywhere I could get it. And so I fought my way out of Hill 43 and went to where I thought the unit would be because my instructions and so forth, I have them on my map. I know where I’m supposed to be and where they’re going. So I go to Nam Yen 3, and my God, they’re not there. And there’s one hell of a lot of enemy on that one. So, okay, fine. Cut to the chase here. I went to another one called Nam Yen 4. I ran into my battalion commander on top of that one thinking my unit is there for sure. And they’re not there. And I told that colonel to get his damn ass off of that hill. It’s VC controlled. I left. So did he. Okay. In his helicopter. Thank you. Bull Fisher was… I don’t know. I think Bull Frischer got the Silver Star twice on Iwo Jima.
SPEAKER 09 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 02 :
Listed man. He’s now the colonel.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
Man this. So I proceeded north trying to find my unit. And there was one hell of a lot of VC running every freaking place and a lot of them. So I had accumulated three other people by then. I’m not sure where they came from or who they were. I think they were from India Company at the time. And I put us inside the, quote, bushes of a little hill I was looking for this morning. I think it’s not on any kind of map here. It’s about 22, so it had to be about 80 feet or 90 feet tall. Okay. But it was big enough for just us, okay. They had a lot of jungle around, but it had a good position as a jungle instructor. And, you know, I may have had, I don’t know, 15 rounds of ammunition. They had none. I gave two to everybody, you know. And so we had to be very careful about what we were doing because we didn’t have any ammunition. We didn’t need to engage anyone except with a knife. or absolutely danger close. Basically, there was about 100 of them that ran past us in the open, full packs, everything. They came under artillery fire and were destroyed. We could see that. There was probably 30 or 40 of them that came by us close, but they didn’t smell us, and that’s fine. So the next day I went to another village. Question.
SPEAKER 08 :
You just said something. They didn’t smell us. And I was interviewing somebody that said that there were different smells of Vietnamese or Americans because of what we ate. Is that accurate?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you don’t wear deodorant, right? Right. I didn’t bathe, except, no, well, I did take a shower once while they burned my clothes back in June, I think. We were pretty ragged and hadn’t changed clothes for, I don’t know, several, three or four months or whatever in the jungle. But other than dressing my wounds, I didn’t bathe. I mean, you didn’t. There was no opportunity. You didn’t use deodorant or whatever. And you stank like they did. Normally, you can smell. You don’t smoke unless you’re told to. You don’t urinate or defecate unless I tell you to. The Viet Cong are very religious about when they eat. They eat every four hours. They begin at 6 a.m. So at 10 o’clock or whatever, I tell you to defecate or urinate, you get hemorrhoids because that’s when you go. We remove what we did, okay? You eat when I tell you to. You drink when I tell you to. You sleep when I tell you to. And if you don’t, I pull your dog tags, which means I have control over your life. You will pay attention to business. Now, on this business of me moving from point A to point B sounds a little unusual, but it is not. In the Marine Corps, it’s called missing a movement. If you are not on location at the time and place that you were assigned, you were either dead or you’re missing. I mean, which is a court-martial offense and could be an execution offense in combat. So they must know where you are, and you must be where you’re supposed to be. So I proceed along my map exactly where I’m supposed to be, my company or not, and as it turned out, I was the only one from my company who arrived on phase line Banana next to echo company and reported to my battalion commander hotel company was uh on the line with a compliment of five okay i don’t know who those five were presumably they put them some other place and he told me to move in on the edge of echo company with my compliment and uh in the next day the next morning he’d give me my instructions
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, we’re going to stop right there, Carl Leppard. This is absolutely fascinating. And I did want to mention the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo, Colorado. And Pueblo is known as the home of heroes. There’s four Medal of Honor recipients that grew up there. And their portraits of valor of over 160 Medal of Honor recipients with their quotes is so inspiring. And so be sure to check out their website. That is AmericanValuesCenter.org. AmericanValuesCenter.org. We’ll be right back with Carl Leppard.
SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
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SPEAKER 08 :
Great place to get together to watch the games, have great lunch specials, happy hour specials. How I got to know them, it’s a very important story about freedom and free markets and capitalism. And it’s an event that occurred when I was on city council and really helped me learn the proper role of government. It was a good question. And so we become friends and they’re sponsors of the show. So check out the Hooters restaurants and their five locations. I’m talking with Carl Leppard. He is a Vietnam veteran, a Marine. And we’re talking about these different battles. And in the Battle of Chulai, you said that you needed to get from point A to point B. There’s a time you’re supposed to be there. You arrived there. You were the only one from your company that was there. So what happened then, Carl?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, Colonel Fisher came, and he recognized me because I had confronted him the day before at night and demanded that he exit his vehicle. and get in front of the headlights to be recognized and they said do you know who i am and all this other business i said yeah i do uh or you know uh until i do then uh you will step out of that vehicle or i will shoot you down so he he did and and uh presented himself that was my first introduction so when i reported to him at phase line banana there were three lines Let’s see, first line was Apple, a very long line. And on that line is supposed to be the 3rd Marines, the 7th Marines, the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, on this line, elbow to elbow. And in the middle, next to Echo Company, is supposed to be Hotel. But I’m the only one in Hotel. I’ve got some stragglers from other units that had lost themselves and so forth, another story probably. But that was it. Okay, so the colonel recognized me immediately and said, oh, step out in front of the headlights. I said, well, yes, sir, I’m sorry. And so he told me to fall in, and the next morning he would give me an assignment to fall in next to Echo with my compliment.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
So the next morning… The colonel said for me to if he asked if I had a map and I had my case, of course, and he said I said yes. And he said, and Kong, too. I want you to go back to and Kong, too. And I want you to clear the battlefield and I want you to take your compliment and clear the battlefield and protect the wounded there. I said, I, sir, and I’m gone and Kong, too. was the right, there’s a stream bed right there, and 3rd Battalion, yes, 3rd Battalion, 3rd Marines, they’re over on the south side. Hotel Company is supposed to be on the north side of that little creek, depression, river, swamp, what. Well, there are a lot of dead people everywhere. I mean… Please. Hundreds, you know, well over 500. But in any case, the battlefield itself was fluid. There’s little bitty hills, right? And that’s called like Namyan, this and that and the other, Nankong. These are little high rises that are above the rice paddy itself, full of big bamboo, a lot of, you know, bushes, etc., And these Viet Cong men were all over the damn place. I mean, we’re talking about, well, I can be exact. There was over 5,000 of them there. So I had seen 100 of them at one time go past me to the south. They were coming from Echo Company straight south, or sorry, straight west, escaping. but uh gunnery sergeant carr took them down with some artillery which i seriously appreciate meanwhile i’m hiding in the bushes like i’m supposed to be and i see what’s going on so we had about 90 marines that were seriously wounded um laying in the open uh Our helicopters were shot two pieces, and I can be pretty bloody exact on that. There were just very few of them that were flying. And to try to get out this many wounded, and we had over 200 wounded men, it was impossible. We lost 80% of our helicopters within the first three hours. And every time they’d come in for wounded or whatever, they’d be shot to pieces. So bottom line is, we did not have a resupply of water. We did not have any ammunition, okay? I mean, please. And so we had trouble. And these wounded, we were trying to consolidate them in a spot of some sort of safety with the river to our back. Theoretically, we had some bad water to give our wounded. Right. But we had no morphine. We had nothing. Okay, so I arrived there to try to dispatch all the living wounded Viet Cong and to account for all of the dead to report to my battalion commander. I was wounded twice during that exercise, you know, but, you know, I was in… We’re getting into an area of sensitivity, but I will tell you that I couldn’t dress my wound because I was 100% blood. So they had me strip off my clothes, and I exchanged them with some of the dead that were not so soiled and treated me and allowed them to go back about their business. So we secured our battlefield there. dispatched any living enemy forces, killed any that we could find, and generally protected that element. Then the next day from there, we had pretty much those guys removed. Some of India Company, I think, came in to give some assistance. I proceeded back to phase line Cherry, which is closer to the beach. And I am doing what I was ordered to do, clear the battlefield. and probably don’t need to speak too much about what that’s about.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 02 :
So in the end, I think I finished my business, I believe, on the 24th. We had began on the 18th, and I returned to my unit, and the unit, of course, was gone. My old company that was filling those positions, defending from the West, they were gone. There was a first sergeant there, and I think some Remington Raider person in headquarters there with them, packing up all the people’s sea bags and all of that. I was very bloody. You know, I mean… flies had no place to sit on me. I mean, it was bad. But a captain came and a sergeant came that same morning, and they wanted to interview, presumably, H24 on tape, which is kind of interesting because, you know, it was reel-to-reel back then. And the first sergeant says, well, they’re gone. You know, they’re, they’re not, you know, they’re not here, you know? Um, and so, but we’ve got a corporal leopard over here and of course, uh, they, he interviewed me and, uh, the captain got ill and couldn’t take it because of what I look like and, uh, left the tent losing his lunch. Uh, the sergeant then carried on the interview and it was taped. Now, we know today by Marine Corps record that only one after-action report was taped for July. They don’t say whose name it was, but they did tape me. So General Green got the full nine yards of things that I don’t want to talk about. He got it all, again. And he knows who it was on that tape. Okay, so now we know that… H-24, by 1600, 4 o’clock in the afternoon, 1630 to be exact, they were ordered to withdraw earlier in the day. I didn’t know they were withdrawn to the west to where they originally landed. And they had a complement of 24 men remaining of 152, I think. So I didn’t know about any of that. I didn’t know they, you know, they’re supposed to be going where I went. Okay, fine. So they sent them back to Okinawa to be reformed. I mean, they were not an element. at all anymore. Okay, so I don’t know how long I was there, but I went to regiment then, and then they sent me to a place called Mike 39, and I was shot down in a helicopter coming in, and we got heavily engaged and so forth with some Viet Cong on the ground there. I called in some artillery, which they didn’t find was the right thing to do. I just call artillery when I need it. I don’t go through channels. Plus, I just was arriving. And so the battalion at that time had a little bit of a problem with Carl because he doesn’t go by procedure. Oh, boy. So they sent me back out to get my face repaired. I had some of my uniform jammed up in my nose. My face was kind of arranged a little differently. And then I came back with my old machine gunner from Hotel 23, Ron Smith, and we promptly get shot down again coming in. So today, I have a record today because I was trying to follow where my Marines, when they were split up, they split us up to the entire division, and that was a bad thing. But in any case, they sent some of the more— combat proficient, shall we say, people from Hotel, the Raider Company, 2-3, down to Mike 3-9, and some other companies as well. So Ron Smith was there with me. Raymond, C.D. Raymond was my rocket man. We had Private Parsons with us. We had Miller and Butler, or no, we didn’t have Miller. We had Butler and we had Harden, a bunch of people from Hotel 2-3. Flying in on October the 3rd now, when I was shot down the first time, I lost 21 of the complement of my platoon, which is I think we only had about 40. So we lost most everybody.
SPEAKER 08 :
Goodness. Let’s let’s stop there, Carl. We have one more segment. I’m talking with Carl Leppard, a Marine veteran serving during the Vietnam War. We will be right back.
SPEAKER 11 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 01 :
From the mountains to the prairies,
SPEAKER 08 :
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. And I’m talking with Marine Vietnam veteran Carl Leppard, and we’ve talked about two battles. There’s a third, and that is the Battle of Le Bon. So let’s talk about that, Carl.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yes, okay. Well, basically, the Viet Cong NVA, and they try to say this is all Viet Cong, but we had NVA there, North Vietnamese. But on the 29th of October, they had planned to wipe out the Da Nang airfield again. But this time they were interdicted in two different locations by patrols and artillery. Okay, but on the evening of the 30th, I was ordered to hold an ambush in a place called Le Bon 1, right in the middle of this marketplace, pretty much on the river. Across the river from me was Alpha 1-1. My friend Sergeant Dempsey was over there, and he was the platoon sergeant of that. So we’re there at midnight, and I’m getting fire now from— 360 degrees. They’re trying to find me in there. And I knew we were in trouble. They were nine of us. And so I had to fight our way out of that situation. And I broke broke out through enemy fire. We had six wounded and made it back to our company. They sent me to battalion immediately. probably 3 o’clock in the morning, and Major Hopkins was there, our executive officer of the battalion, who was formerly my company commander back in the United States. And I drew him a picture of what this looked like, because then they had already slaughtered the Marines across the river there, during the night, and these vampires were looking for someplace to hide. Well, the attack was about 1,500 Viet Cong. Part of that unit was called the 45th VC, a main force battalion. We engaged them first ourselves down in Chu Lai, and before that at Quang Nai, they killed an unbelievable number of Vietnamese Marines. and arvin troops they wiped out 997 arvin but in any case they’re the bad boys that made the attack they had been hiding underneath of the marketplace in lebanon and so i visited with the battalion commander told him the situation drew him a little picture where you could hide possibly hide a force of that size and that they were definitely in Le Bon. He grabbed his battalion and some company other units from other companies, and we immediately proceeded on Le Bon in the daylight. So we engaged Arvin on our west flank, engaged about a company of Viet Cong trying to flee to the north. They went into Le Bon. We surrounded it. I located where they were underground. The battalion commander or XO brought in the demolitions. We blew that marketplace up. It sank from five feet to eight feet in some areas, some areas 15 feet. It sank. We surrounded that for 24 hours and there was no one that came out alive. So the 45th and its complement was about, well, there were between 400 of that unit Presumably they had lost some, so we can say 400 pretty easily to 500 died at that location. I know the names of the battalion commander and all of his company commanders and exactly where they’re at. Wow. So that ended the 45th Battalion. And I’m real happy about it. You can ask me, because I have compiled a record of any village you wish. I can tell you the commander’s name in 1965, his complement of men, and what arms that they carried. Period. Period. So at Chu Lai, I can tell you exactly who was engaged, his name of what unit, Viet Cong unit. There were not one regiment, there were two. There was a second Vietnamese regiment there. So I know precisely and exactly how many were there, their names of their company or battalion or commanders, etc. I know their names and their exact positions. But this is part of being map and arrow photo guy. You do this. So I record tunnel sizes when I’m there. If there’s a tunnel that will hold 400 people, we know how many people it will hold. So I know precisely the 7,500 people that were around us there, and we worked every day to kill every single one of them we could find. So it’s a game. They were trying to kill us. We were trying to kill them. And we did it very professionally. And I’m very happy about the people I served with. So wounded again on last on December the 5th. They asked me to leave on December the 6th because of the wound was bleeding and we couldn’t control it in my neck. So I proceeded back to the United States by way of Okinawa Kui Hospital and was promptly assigned to the drill instructor school at San Diego.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, my gosh. Wow. What a story. Carl Leppard, we have maybe about a minute left. How would you like to button this up for our listeners?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, I don’t know. The Marine Corps is a very small place, and we’re very well trained. I mean, at times we didn’t have what we needed to have, but those are normal things. uh, errors in combat and so forth, things happen. Uh, you need to, uh, adapt, uh, and, uh, take advantage of your training. Um, uh, and I think that we did it very, uh, very efficiently. And, uh, generally your E4s, your, uh, uh, your non-commissioned officers, uh, who were your leaders, right? Uh, they were generally very, very professional. And, um, Well educated. And I find no fault with any of them. I’ve fought with a lot of them. And I’m very thankful and grateful to have done that, particularly with the upper command there, General Walt, for sure, General Wheeler, for sure. Hopkins, General Hopkins, for sure. I can go on. Colonel Martin, for sure. All of my platoon commanders were the best I think we had.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wow. Well, Carl Leppard, thank you for sharing all of this with us. This is so important. I really do appreciate it. And my friends, as we hear these stories, it is very apparent that we stand on the shoulders of giants. God bless you and God bless America.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 03 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
