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HR1 Dr. Kelly: Are Profits Driving Healthcare? Vaccines, Fraud, & Fallout They Won’t Admit. 4-10-25 by John Rush
SPEAKER 17 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 16 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 05 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 13 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did.
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Get a job, sir. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
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Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 10 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 17 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush, presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right. Happy Thursday, everybody. And yes, my voice is still a little froggy, but I feel fine. Yes, and I mean that sincerely. Yes, I actually feel much better than I sound. And Dr. Scott got me all fixed up late last night, which I appreciate greatly. And Charlie, I just got a notification. You can call Steve anytime now. He just texted me, so we’re waiting for Dr. Kelly as well. But Steve House should be joining me here in just one moment. And by the way, thank you all for the… A lot of you texted late last night and even this morning and asked how I felt and so on. And I, by the way, I appreciate that greatly. You guys are really great. We have just fabulous listeners. And literally, I cannot say enough good things about all of you and really appreciate them. The kind words, and you don’t have to do that, but I appreciate that you do. And like I said, Dr. Scott did a great job of taking care of me last night, which is a plug for him, by the way. That’s how it works. It doesn’t matter where you live. If you’re his patient and you get your initial consultation and all that taken care of, he will take care of the rest from that point forward. And the mistake I made is I should have called him sooner in the week, but… Some of us men can be very stubborn at times. So Steve House joining us now. Steve, welcome. How are you?
SPEAKER 07 :
Still a little bit like an idiot and a slacker today, John, because I didn’t get my first paycheck until I was about 12 years old. Turns out there’s someone out there who got their first $41,000 in pay 129 years before they were born, even.
SPEAKER 14 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 07 :
How does that happen?
SPEAKER 14 :
That is a great question, because I think my first… I have to go back and look at my Social Security. I was about like you. I think I was 14 or so when I got my first actual paycheck with taxes taken out, I want to say.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, but how is it that you can get unemployment insurance when you’re not born until 2154? Yeah, great question. You pay $41,000 worth of it, and they just keep paying you. There’s no good answer to those questions, and yet $400 million later… a whole bunch of people between zero and five, not yet born, or over 115, got paid. And it’s insane.
SPEAKER 14 :
Great point. And yet, Steve, and I’ve talked about this some this week, and yet we’ve got all of these hands-off protests going on around the country, and I’m thinking to myself, you want hands-off of that? Why?
SPEAKER 07 :
I think that they… First of all, they don’t pay attention, right? I mean, that’s part of the problem, right? I mean, in almost any category in the world today, you can do research and learn something about what you’re dealing with and what you should be dealing with, and people just don’t. They do research on the things that they’re fascinated by or the things that they really hate, right? There’s a lot of research being done about how bad Elon Musk is and where he came from. He’s a Nazi and apartheid. They’re not doing anything on his – you know, charitable stuff, the fact that he’s paid $10 million in taxes, you know, da-da-da-da-da. It’s what you choose to think about. Fortunately for us, I think, I know for me, I look at MSN, I look at CNN, I look at Fox News, I look at the way they talk about different aspects. I don’t trust any of them a lot, but, you know, this kind of thing… $400 million when we’ve got people who live in Aurora, Colorado, in some parts of eastern Denver, you know, along Colfax Avenue, where, you know, $500,000 would rebuild a school, or at least a part of a school, and yet the money’s going to somebody who hasn’t even been born yet.
SPEAKER 14 :
True. No, Steve, and again, it’s just, to me, it’s just, I mean, I don’t think ironic’s even the right word. It’s just, it’s maddening. to look at the things that Doge keeps finding, which I don’t know if you noticed the headline today, and I didn’t get a chance to go check this out, but this would not surprise me. Supposedly, somebody internal in the IRS told the Doge IT team that it would take 103 days to change the login button and where it’s located on the IRS’s website, and Doge did it in 70 minutes.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, and how much did IRS pay for it? Probably about, you know, two million bucks or something to have it done. I know, it’s like… We used to think that the toilet seat, the $900 toilet seat was a lot of money. That was a bargain compared to the crap we’re seeing now.
SPEAKER 14 :
That is very well said. Okay, so here’s a question for you. Before we get Dr. Kelly on with us, we’re waiting for her to join us. We’ve got a few more minutes here. So you’re in the admin side of this. You see a lot of this. You know darn good and well where a lot of this waste, fraud, and abuse is at. Will we really get a good handle on this when it’s all said and done?
SPEAKER 07 :
When is a good question because – You know, the problem in health care itself, you know, there’s some fraud, waste and abuse in health care like anything else. And we see that when they clean up HHS. But the bigger problem in health care is it’s radically misaligned incentives. The regulation is so overwhelming that having spent the entire day in a hospital today, talking to nurses, doctors, and other people. First of all, almost everyone’s angry. Secondly, they don’t believe. In fact, I saw two doctors had a conversation with two at one time, and I asked them about their training, medical training. Both of them had been practicing for more than 25 years, and they looked at me at the same time almost and said, we were lied to. I’m like, What do you mean you were lied to? Well, you know, they told us all kinds of things about drugs and vaccines and different stuff that just aren’t true. And we know that now. We know that there’s certain things we shouldn’t be doing and we’re still doing them or we were still doing them. And I said, what changed? And they said, quite frankly, in different answers at different points, they said, you know, when COVID came and they were threatening us and they were telling us we couldn’t use hydroxychloroquine and things like that we couldn’t use antivirals that was a point of major suspicion and then once we started to see the vaccine and a big push and stuff like that it was like you know what I don’t this is not who I am this is not the science I learned this is not right and oh by the way I was gaslit and I was lied to and now I don’t even know if I still want to be a doctor oh great point Dr. Kelly now joining us as well Dr. Kelly welcome how are you today
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m fine, and my apologies. I was tied up with a patient and just realized it was after the top of the hour.
SPEAKER 14 :
That is just fine, not a problem. You heard the tail end of what we were talking about, which you have great commentary on that as well, and Steve is… is spot on. And what spawned that question, Dr. Kelly, as I asked Steve earlier, with Doge and everything we’re finding, all of the waste, fraud, abuse, the fact that people were getting Social Security checks long before they were born even, you look at all that and think, okay, when or will we ever get a handle on that on the medical sides of things?
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, it’s a great question. I certainly hope so. But there is so much that we don’t know. There’s been so much fraud, so much abuse, and frankly, so much attempt to cover it up that I’m not sure we truly get to the bottom of it. I think if nothing else, maybe we have a clean slate moving forward. In some ways, I think the best case scenario is that moving forward is You know, there’s a new sheriff in town. They’re putting new policies and procedures in place. Hopefully they’re trying to clean up the records and clean up the registries. But best case scenario, I think we kind of start over going forward. I’m not sure that we’ll ever get the backlog cleaned up.
SPEAKER 14 :
Stephen, and I can’t disagree with Dr. Kaelin, you guys know the insides of this way better than I do. And sorry for my voice. I apologize to the audience. I’ve not been great all week. I had a really bad sinus infection. And I’m finally now starting to feel much better. So sorry for my voice. It’s… It’s a little rough on that, but I feel great. I sound a lot worse than I actually am. But, Steve, I want to go back to you on the admin software side. I look at Doge, and I look at the team that’s there. I look at Elon Musk. The guy’s brilliant. I mean, anybody that would say otherwise is not very smart, by the way, because you look at the guy and what he actually can do. And I’m with Dr. Kelly. Clean slate, move forward. Question is, can we… software and system-wise make that a clean slate moving forward? Or is there just so much red tape? In other words, how do we get to that point where there’s a clean slate moving forward?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I think it goes to the first part of the answer I gave you before, which is, yeah, you know what? I struggle with just a clean slate because on one hand, I think there’s been so much, so many people have abused the system, but there may be no other way. But here’s the answer. The then doctors can’t get paid, nurses can’t get paid, whatever, hospitals can’t get paid for doing the wrong thing. For example, I mean, if there wasn’t $39,000 available to have a COVID death, you wouldn’t have had COVID deaths that weren’t really COVID deaths. So to clean it up, you’ve got to change the incentive structure to be the proper incentive for what’s best for American health, not health care, but best for American health. Until we do that, John, I think we’re going to struggle. And I do think, like Kelly said, I don’t know if we’ll ever understand or comprehend the depth of waste, fraud and abuse in health care.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and I think there’s nowhere, by the way, where aligning incentives is more profound than in oncology care. Chemotherapy is the only class of drugs where the prescribing physician gets a kickback. The average oncologist, 55% of their income comes from chemotherapy.
SPEAKER 14 :
Okay, you know what, Dr. Kelly, that’s the first, I’ve never heard you say that. That’s news to me today. I just learned something. I did not know that.
SPEAKER 04 :
It is the only class of drugs. If you come to see me and I give you a prescription for amoxicillin versus zithromycin, it doesn’t make any difference. Or this statin drug versus another, no difference. The only class of drugs that is not the case is chemotherapy. Oncologists purchase the chemotherapy from the pharmaceutical companies. They are allowed by law to… to inflate it by 6%, and then they sell it to the patient. The average chemotherapy regimen costs $100,000 a year. So the oncologist makes $6,000 on that. If they have 500 patients on chemotherapy, which would not be uncommon, that’s $300,000. Wow. Wow, I did not know that. More than 55% of the income of the average oncologist is from their sale of chemotherapy. Now, that is a conflict of interest.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER 04 :
Beyond, okay? Yeah, it is. And until people, patients understand that, it is wrong. There’s absolutely no justification for it. And you cannot tell me that that incentive doesn’t impact the way some oncologists are going to think and what studies they’re willing to believe, you know, and on and on. And it’s a racket.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, it’s basically, Steve, in you and I’s world, that’s basically like… the sales rep of whatever item it is they’re trying to push, having a direct communication or line of communication to the customer and not being neutral at the end of the day. In this case, to Dr. Kelly’s point, these doctors are not neutral, in my opinion.
SPEAKER 07 :
well there’s there’s actually in michigan and i was around when this happened um there was a doctor who was diagnosing people with cancer when they didn’t have it and he was giving them chemotherapy for significant periods of time um because he was getting all the money kelly’s talking about i mean the incentive was wrong and that’s why i mean you know you can start with a clean slate but you’ve got to change the incentive you you can’t have a doctor giving AZT to an AIDS patient anymore, but some still do because the amount of money that’s involved in administering that as a treatment is substantially higher than what we do. But you would literally had a guy in Michigan who gave it to hundreds of patients who didn’t actually have cancer and they took chemotherapy and he made a fortune and he finally got caught. Wow.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, and I’m sure, you know, listen, I’m sure there are many, many excellent oncologists, caring oncologists, and I’m not suggesting that everybody is a charlatan just trying to make money. But the reality is, you know, we are commonly impacted or affected, somehow influenced by by those sorts of things, knowingly or not. And we’ve got to remove those conflicts of interest everywhere we can. It’s no different than, or similarly, I should say, with regard to advertising on television by the pharmaceutical companies. If your average media person can’t speak his or her mind because they are at risk of losing advertising dollars, You know, that’s why you never heard any reports, you know, about ill effects of the mRNA vaccines for COVID, because they’re taking in, you know, millions and millions and millions of dollars in advertising funds from those pharmaceutical companies. It’s a huge conflict.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, it sure is. OK, great segue, guys. Hang tight. We’ll come right back. Affordable interest mortgages next. Kurt Rogers, 720-895-0500.
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SPEAKER 15 :
No liberal media bias here. This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 14 :
And we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Dr. Kelly Victory again with us today. There’s an entire page, by the way, on our website dedicated to Dr. Kelly, her past, all the things that we have done here on this program. Steve House was instrumental in making this happen over five years ago. I can’t believe it’s been that long, guys, but time flies. So those of you listening, just go to RushToReason.com. All right. I want to not necessarily switch gears, but… maybe dovetail into what we were talking about a moment ago and I got an email or a text message on this particular topic there was a some news that came out today there’s been a new study I’ve not read the entire study so I’ve not had a chance to actually delve into this I’ll start with you Dr. Kelly but it’s linking now fluoride to autism have you read anything along those lines
SPEAKER 04 :
I have over the years read that that has been a theory that’s been raised on multiple occasions, and I can’t say that it has been disproven. I believe that it is clear there’s something environmental that is causing this massive increase that we’ve seen in autism. It isn’t the case of we’re just, quote, better at diagnosing it. That’s preposterous. There clearly is a massive increase in the actual case numbers. And although I think that it’s clearly something environmental, we don’t know for certain yet what it is. Fluoride is one of the things that we should be investigating. I think there’s a good likelihood that it’s related to the vaccines, but fluoride, again, as well as pesticides, the glycosates that we’re spraying on our wheat and things of that sort, these are all things that are potentially contributing to the neuropsychiatric illnesses that we’re seeing. Fluoride certainly has been associated with neurocomplications, including a decrease in actually IQ points So, again, this is a theory that’s been raised over the years and has not been disproven at this point. Not proven, but not disproven.
SPEAKER 14 :
Okay. So, and that person that texted, I’m sure, is actually listening to that. And, again, these things, you know, these types of studies will continue to come out. And, Steve, I’ll let you comment on that before I ask Dr. Kelly my next question. What are your thoughts on all of that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, so I have some experience. I go to Africa essentially every year. and the areas in eastern africa and it may be the case in some other areas in the southern and south in africa as well but in those countries there’s so much fluoride in the groundwater that these folks will have the whitest teeth you’ve ever seen but the brown spots in their teeth and the brown spots are caused by the fluoride however at the same time in an environment where they don’t have a lot of the same sort of setup that we do and access to things they don’t have the same access to toothpaste and fluoride that way. The measured IQ, the measured neurological effect in those countries is definitely detrimental and fluoride appears to be the cause. So that’s why Kennedy wants to get rid of it, I think, in one way. So if you have something that’s neurodegenerative in terms of IQ, you know, the hard part about autism, and this is something I asked Kelly, is that if it’s, vaccine related speech aphasia slash you know autism or asperger’s generally speaking as far as i know it happens fairly quickly after someone gets a vaccine does that mean it can’t happen because they’re consuming too much fluoride i mean i’m not sure it’s a question i have in my mind okay
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, no, and I think that those are reasonable questions. Autism, as you know, is a spectrum. It’s not a singular disease. And there is absolutely irrefutable evidence that in a large number of people, it happens very, very quickly, as you just suggested, Steve, immediately on the heels of a vaccine. In other words, the moms will say this child was totally normal meeting his or her milestones. And within 48 hours after the vaccine was a profoundly different child, didn’t make eye contact, you know, started bizarre behaviors, became nonverbal, whatever it was, that it was something like flipping a switch. There are other kids for whom it appears to be is a smaller number, smaller percentage appears to be more insidious in onset. And for those kids, maybe it is a buildup of heavy metals or a buildup of fluoride over time. We know that the reason that lead was removed from paint back years and years ago was because in the inner city, in impoverished areas, they were concerned about children eating paint chips. that had fallen off of the windowsills and getting neurodegenerative disease as a result of lead poisoning. So, yes, some of these things happen quickly. I think those are likely related to the vaccine. And some of these others that are more insidious and onset may well be the result of things like fluoride.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, go ahead, Steve. Go ahead. Today, I heard this, and I haven’t had a chance to verify this is true, but I heard today that Secretary Kennedy said they will know what causes autism by the end of September of this year. Wow. I haven’t verified that, but that’s what I heard him say. Wow. Now, maybe it was not a full story, but I want to research that, but that’s what I heard today.
SPEAKER 14 :
Interesting. Kelly, have you heard anything along those lines?
SPEAKER 04 :
I had not heard that. I’ve been tied up all day. I did not hear that he said that. It would be fascinating to have anyone say that they could definitively prove it in that short a period of time.
SPEAKER 14 :
Charlie just said he read that as well, Steve, so you’re not the only one that saw that. He did see that as well. Yeah. Interesting. That would be something. Now, really quick, going back to fluoride. Now, I’m semi-joking, but maybe not. So I grew up in Boulder, as most everybody out there knows, Boulder native. Boulder was one of a few towns even back then when I was a kid that added fluoride to the water. In fact, when I was in my, I don’t know, mid-40s, I had a dentist that even said, where did you grow up? And I said, well, Boulder, not far from here at that point in time. And the dentist said, oh, that’s why you have such… great teeth and i said well okay whatever thanks i mean i’ve never had really that many dental issues but i will say this guys i now know why my iq is lower than both of yours well quite frankly sorry no go ahead steve
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m going to say, the fact that you got out of Boulder and you’re not a liberal tells me your IQ is way higher than mine.
SPEAKER 14 :
Good one. Exactly. Good one. Good one. No, and, you know, the response that I even gave this texter that texted in was along those same lines, only on more of a serious note as to, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know all the ramifications of these things. I think the more that we find that some of these things we thought at one time were maybe good maybe aren’t, and they’ve got – Side effects. And Dr. Kelly and Steve, we’ve talked about this before as well. You know, it could affect different people different ways. And those are some of the things, again, it’s sort of like we’ve talked about the mRNA, you know, quote unquote vaccine. The reality is, unless you test that across a broad spectrum of people, you don’t really have a good answer back as to how it works or not. Am I right, Dr. Kelly?
SPEAKER 04 :
No, that’s exactly right. And the studies were woefully insufficient for the mRNA shots. Hopefully everybody knows that by now. They were way too limited in numbers. They were way too limited in the classes of people they studied them in. One of the most egregious breaches was that they did not study the mRNA shots in people who had already had and recovered from COVID, which was a huge number of people. So they had no idea what was going to happen when you gave somebody who had already had COVID a shot. In the same way, you know, think about it. If somebody’s had chickenpox or somebody’s just had measles, if you just had measles and gotten over it, nobody in their right mind would turn around and say, you know, you should take a vaccine for measles. You just had it. OK, if you just had chickenpox, nobody who wants to keep their medical license would suggest that you get immunized for chickenpox. OK, but so why in the world, if you just had covid, would somebody turn around and say you should get a shot for it? I mean, it defies logic.
SPEAKER 14 :
Great point.
SPEAKER 04 :
OK. And those people were not included in the study. So they had no idea what would happen to those people. And so, you know, as I’ve said, tragically, from the beginning, most of the people in these, you know, who got vaccinated were part of an ongoing study, whether they were told that or not. The reality is they were part of an experiment. And so we’ve got to really face that fact and make sure that it never happens again. Right.
SPEAKER 14 :
And to your point, Dr. Kelly and Steve, you can chime in on this. We, those of us that are not vaccinated, became a part of another study group that, frankly, they don’t care anything about. But we’re the other side of that equation, correct?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, we are. But I think they make care about us. They make care that somehow they get a spike protein into us before too long, because then the longer we go, the more definitive it is that the vaccine is causing problems. And I do think that I got to believe in rooms and tell you, correct me if I’m wrong, Fauci sitting in a room with Birx and other people and the Pfizer heads and all these people saying, look, Let’s try this. And then when you come back, what happened? Oh, it didn’t work. Damn, it didn’t work. How are we going to sell more of this vaccine if we don’t get it to work? We got to find another application, another way to do a study to show people that natural immunity doesn’t work. The only way to prevent it is with this vaccine. And when that doesn’t work, then we’re going to say, well, it keeps you out of the hospital. Wait a minute. It didn’t keep people out of the hospital. We got to keep telling them they need to take it because we’re science and they don’t know what they’re talking about.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yep. Yep. Yep. I again, I never can disagree with you two on pretty much anything. And, you know, spot on in this particular case. And I agree with you as well, Steve, that, yes, I didn’t. And this is not conspiratorial, I think, because what were Dr. Kelly, what, about 17 to 20 percent? Is it even that high or are we down in the 12 percent range you and Steve?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, the numbers are somewhere that about 80% of all Americans took at least one shot. So I think the working numbers are around 20%. It’s very difficult, however, to claim for certain that these numbers are correct because early on people had an incentive to lie about being vaccinated. Many people said they were vaccinated when they weren’t because they wanted to travel or go to school or work or whatever. And then fast forward, now a lot of people have an incentive to say they weren’t vaccinated when they expect they were. That’s right. Because a lot of people feel stupid or silly or that they made a non-wise decision. And as you’ve got to know, the actual records are… you know, abysmal. Nobody kept good records. People were getting injected in the parking lot. That’s right. Walmart, you know, or at their doctor’s office or maybe at a pharmacy or at a school or at some, you know, vaccine rally, mobile van, whatever it was. Exactly. You know, half of the cards out there are suspects. You know, we don’t know which ones are counterfeit and which ones aren’t true. These things were handwritten. Most most of these were handwritten on people’s cards. Very few were typed in. Handwriting by definition means that it is prone to either misinterpretation or may have been written down improperly or incorrectly, human error being what it is. So, frankly, the answer is we have no real idea. But the best estimates based on surveys is that somewhere in the range of 80 percent of Americans got at least one shot.
SPEAKER 14 :
So, Steve, going back and again, I’m not a conspiracy theorist, as you know. In fact, most of what we’ve talked about, if not all of what we’ve talked about, has turned out to be true one way, shape, form or another. So when it comes to your statement of, you know, you believe and I’m like you, we both believe that they will try to do something to correct what Dr. Kelly just said a moment ago so that they can have 100 percent, by the way, versus the 80-ish or so percentile that it is right now. How will they do that, Steve?
SPEAKER 07 :
no i mean you can go back to some of the stuff that was done you know during mk ultra and some of the other things that are now more public i mean you know i worry a little bit about airborne vaccine related applications and you know bill gates you know what they did with lyme disease and the other things where they dropped it on people they mean in lyme disease they dropped ticks on guys in cuba to try to make farmers unproductive and then they starved the population to get rid of castro That stuff is public now. I mean, there’s any number of ways they could get a vaccine to us. In fact, vaccinate the meat you eat, vaccinate whatever. Spike proteins don’t appear to have an end life. If they end up in a cow or a chicken and you eat it, do we know we’re not going to have it in our body? I mean, I don’t think we do know. And then, of course, there’s the, you know, in surgery, you know, they pop a vaccine in and give you a vaccine. I hope they’re not doing that crap, but I don’t know, John. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but I think there was a bunch of people who had COVID that fell off the end of the earth into that, you know, area where the guys that were going to the moon were supposed to go but never made it. But I’m not a conspiracy theorist.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, and then, Dr. Kelly, on top of that, and we’ve talked about this many, many times, you add a lot of what Steve said a moment ago, and then you start throwing in blood transfusions and things along those lines, which, again, I don’t think there’s any definitive answer out as to, well, we know the blood supply is contaminated, but how does that work when it’s all said and done?
SPEAKER 04 :
Correct. We don’t know that and we don’t know how extensive this issue of shedding is.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
So, you know, the reality is all of these things come into play. I hate to say it, but I do think that there are Steve, to your point that there are people who were injected against their will or certainly without their knowledge, whether it happened because they were not in a position to make the decision. They were either in surgery or unconscious or not capable of giving informed consent, whether they were told they were getting something else or whether it was some do-gooder, quote-unquote, who said this person isn’t vaccinated and I’m going to take care of it and make sure that they are while they’re getting their knee replaced. You know, under anesthesia, who knows? But all of these things, the blood transfusion, the fact that we have shedding, the fact that we don’t know how much is transmitted between, you know, a pregnant mother and her unborn, you know, a child in utero. We just don’t know these things. And these are all questions what makes me angry. is that these are all questions that should have been answered before the first shot was injected into the public. And the fact that it wasn’t was truly one of the greatest failures of our system, of the organizations, the agencies whose job it is to look after the health and well-being of Americans. And not only did they do this, but then they subsequently lied about it for the better part of five years. And it’s looking at this point, like Anthony Fauci’s going to get off scot-free. He’s going to get away with it. And I find that absolutely just unconscionable.
SPEAKER 07 :
Can’t argue that. Go ahead, Steve. So, I mean, it’s a question for both of you. I mean, there’s a part of me that says if I had to go in and I was going to be put under general anesthesia and I was asked in the, you know, pre-op process or even during the, you know, just before surgery process if I’d had a COVID vaccine and I might say yes. I mean, yeah, I’ve had nine of them. Just because I don’t want them to give me one when I’m asleep. Yeah, good point. I don’t know how to handle that. I was talking about, you know, from the patient’s point of view, what does the patient do in that setting that doesn’t want that risk?
SPEAKER 14 :
Good point. You know what? Hold that thought. Let’s come back. We’ve got some more things to talk about that dovetail into a question, Steve, you wanted us to talk about as well. We’ll come right back. Golden Eagle Financial is next. Al Smith, give him a call today. Find him at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 05 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 14 :
And we are back, Dr. Kelly Victory and Steve Howe. Steve, I want to go back to you on this one because you said that you think, and we may not be able to get all this done in the next, oh, we’ve got about 12 or so minutes left or so, that you think we should adjust the patient’s point of view when it comes to health care. Now, I am… kind of on the side where I know a lot from being with you two as long as we have, although I do not know a fraction of what you do. And I will tell you that right now, currently for me, I have a concierge doctor, Dr. Scott, because frankly, I don’t think I could do it any other way, Steve.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, and I think that’s going to be a model that you see more and more for those who can afford it. The patient’s point of view problem from my point of view is, The question we just asked, you know, do you lie to somebody? Your regular doctor, you know, Dr. Scott might know whether you’ve been vaccinated or not. Your regular doctor might know where you are. But if you’re in a surgical setting or someplace where someone could potentially give you a COVID vaccine if you say you’ve never had it, assuming you’d never know it, You know, or like we saw at, I think it was Duke or someplace recently where somebody could not have a lung transplant because they weren’t vaccinated and the hospital wouldn’t allow it because they weren’t COVID vaccine. And that was in the last three or four months with all we know about COVID vaccines. That’s crazy. And then on top of that, there, there are, I mean, you know, the autism stuff, you know, with Bobby Kennedy, you know, people are saying it’s not an epidemic when it’s one in 36 children today and I think that’s crazy. As a patient, you have to start thinking about who do I trust? Who can give me advice? I mean, because there’s a lot of people. I mean, there are people out there who have said flat out, I will never take the advice of a doctor again because they lied to me during COVID. Well, I think that’s too broad of a spectrum, right? I mean, I know doctors, I won’t say that. But at the same time, what is a patient to do when they are on chronic disease drugs? We know they need to help fix themselves. But they get put on drugs like statins that really aren’t what they need and stuff like that. How does the patient survive the current information, misinformation, misincentivized health care system? And I think it’s worthy of having a serious conversation about it.
SPEAKER 14 :
Dr. Kelly, for me, and I’m going to throw this to you because you’re a doctor, I will tell you that some of what I do and what I’ve kind of done with, you know, I’ve had, you know, parents and, you know, other things that I’ve been involved in, not me personally health care wise, but with some of them. And for me, I get pretty trusting when I hear some of these doctors say some key things like what we’ve talked about on this program for, you know, the past five years. But if I get the indication that they are all bought in on all the things that we also talk about in regards to vaccines and some of the things that we’re talking about with big drugs and so on, I get really skeptical at that point as to whether I’m being told the truth or not. And I know I’m tainted from being around you two for this long, but I don’t know any other way to do it.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, I think that’s what you have to do. If you have a physician who still, at this point in 2025, is still suggesting boosters, is still promoting the idea that a newborn baby should get a hepatitis B vaccine, who still is pushing annual flu shots, despite the most recent study from the Cleveland Clinic, all of these things, I think that is really a litmus test. about that clinician’s critical thinking skills. If they aren’t up on it, if they are just repeating over and over again sort of the standard narrative, have not done their own diligence, if they don’t understand at this point that ivermectin is not, quote, course-paced, that has multiple applications, not only for COVID, but for cancer, then this is somebody who isn’t keeping up with the most current data. I think it is a good sort of test or a good way to sort out who’s a reasonable clinician. And on top of all of it, you need a physician, regardless of what he or she believes, is willing to respect your choices. So anytime I hear somebody say, my doctor’s going to fire me because he’s suggesting a COVID shot and I don’t want one, or he wants me on statins and I said no, or the oncologist is recommending chemotherapy and I’m declining, if that doctor is not willing to continue to treat you with your choices, then you should fire that doctor anyway. Because you don’t have a doctor, you’ve got a drug dealer.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, well, yeah, exactly. No, and Steve, I can’t disagree with Dr. Kelly on that at all.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, I can’t either. And here’s the thing for Kelly and you to think about, too, is that, you know, first of all, I’m not sure who’s paying the chemotherapy fee to the doctor. Could be the PBM, could be, you know, the pharmacy company itself. Chemotherapy drugs are really, really expensive and PBMs mark them up dramatically. But here’s the question. Let’s say you do have cancer. Let’s say you do get multiple opinions and that chemotherapy is the best choice. Is the last question you ask what drug are you giving me and why are you giving me that drug? And when they tell you why they like this drug, then you say, is that drug more expensive than an alternative? Because the copay at my copay level is going to kill me, right? I may die from the cancer, but I may also die from the medical bill. Yeah, good point. Which causes people to go bankrupt. So am I allowed to ask my doctor if they’re giving me the chemo they are because it’s more expensive and they make more money? Dr. Kelly, I’ll let you chime in on that one.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, it’s a legitimate question. Obviously, none of them are going to answer honestly and say, yeah, I gave you the most expensive one. The problem is that they tend to be, I think, impacted or influenced by the goodies that they get from the pharmaceutical reps and what they read about that drug and the fact that it happens to be more expensive. Well, that’s because, quote, it’s better. I think we’ve got to remove that incentive in the first place. It is not legitimate to me for oncologists to be able to make money by selling chemotherapy drugs. It’s just not right.
SPEAKER 14 :
We do have a bill advancing in Colorado. I have not had a chance to read this. This was just sent to me, I believe, yesterday. It’s Bill 25-1094. Would crack down on business practices of pharmacy benefit managers that lead to higher costs with potential policy changes on the horizon. Now is the time to discuss this. Blah, blah, blah. And again, Steve, Dr. Kelly. I’ll have to go through and read this or I’ll send you guys the bill itself and you guys can do some reading and maybe we can talk about that in the future. I have no idea what they’re looking at. And I’m always, Steve, you’re on the political side of this as much as anybody. I’m always a little bit leery of government getting involved because will it make it better or worse?
SPEAKER 07 :
Government will generally make it worse. However, this is a subject that needs to get adjudicated. I mean, look, I love, I’m pro-business, I’m pro-hospital, I’m pro a lot of those things. But here’s the quandary that you’re going to get into these days is that if you, in fact, are self-funded, which means you are a plan sponsor that covers your own employees, you don’t use the net or Cigna, they may be your actuary, but you, the company, are paying. If you get your drugs via PVM, And the price they give you on those drugs, if you mark those drugs up to your employees so that you can make a little profit on those drugs and your employees end up paying a copay plus whatever the cost of the drug is different. You know, you’re saving yourself, right? Because it’s not coming out of my left pocket’s my health plan. My right pocket is my employee. If I’m moving money from my left pocket to my right pocket and back and forth, who’s actually spending the money? I’m spending the money as an employer. The problem is, is that it’s ERISA and ethics and all these other things. I mean, why would you mark up drugs that you buy as an employer to your own employees? Good point. But there’s lawsuits on this. There’s the JP Morgan lawsuit and the Wells Fargo lawsuit where employees are filing a class action suit against their employers for doing exactly that, marking up the drugs coming through their plant so they have to pay more than the employer pays and because it’s coming from a pbm they’re getting a tesla at 3100 and marking it up and paying rebates back to people i think that’s probably a serious challenge that needs to be looked at and adjudicated if colorado wants to address it let’s see what they do
SPEAKER 14 :
And after reading this a little bit while you were talking, Steve, I will tell you that the sponsors of this are, for the most part, on our side. I think that already tells you where the bill is coming from. They want a flat fee based upon not the cost of the drug, but just the cost of doing business, if you would, where you’re not going to earn more for a higher-priced drug, less for a lower-priced drug. In other words, Steve, literally doing a lot of what you just said, not… I can’t see and hear where it’s getting into if you’re the employer handling things, but they want to get to a, this bill in Colorado wants a PBM to get to a flat fee period.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, yeah, what you’re talking about is a subscription model, PBM. Wall Street Journal highlighted three companies who have it. One of them I know very well. They charge $20 per member per month. They buy the drugs at the lowest possible cost. There’s no rebates, no fees. They don’t pay anybody anything other than they buy direct. They pay the dispensing fee. The pharmacy and the drug is, oh, Tesla in this case, $597 versus $3,100. Wow. That’s what you get for paying a flat subscription fee now. a lot of people in the pharma business are going to fight it because they want the rebates. Kelly Victory is an expert in this category. I learned everything I know about it from her. So she, I’m sure, has an opinion as well.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, and Dr. Kelly, you still having a footprint in Colorado. I sent you guys the bill. You guys can look at it. We can probably talk about this again, maybe even next week if we get a chance to do so, because I’d like to know more about that. My fear, Dr. Kelly, is if this is as good as it sounds like it is, will it even pass through our Democrat legislature here in Colorado?
SPEAKER 04 :
Exactly. Or will they just muck it up with a bunch of work and other stuff that’ll get into it? And that’s always the problem. As Steve said, government will generally never make something better because these bills get laden with all sorts of other things. It becomes the next project. I would like to see PBMs go away entirely. The middlemen always jack the prices up. It always ends up being less efficient and more expensive. In addition to that, we really need to disarticulate health care insurance and health care at all from people’s employment. You need to remember that was an offshoot of something after the Second World War when employers, there were wage freezes in place. People were not allowed to increase wages. So in an effort, an altruistic effort to try to get some additional benefits to their employees, employers started providing health care benefits. It was really trying to get some additional money into people’s pockets. That’s right. It’s long past its usefulness, and way more people are tied and stuck. They’re shackled to a job that they don’t want or unable to move to an area that is less expensive or better for their families because of fear of losing their health insurance. It’s a problem, and we need to undo that as well.
SPEAKER 14 :
Okay. Again, one of those things that, trust me, folks, we will look at that a little bit further in the near future. Before we go, really quick, Dr. Kelly, somebody asked, you know, could we explain shedding, and it’s going to have to be done probably on a later show, but I gave an answer back really quick just a synopsis because of the things that we have talked about. The answer is we don’t really know because there hasn’t been enough studies, controlled studies, to really know how it works or doesn’t. Is that the right answer?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, it is. And we don’t know exactly what’s being, quote, shed. Is the spike protein itself that is being manufactured by people who got vaccinated or is it the mRNA? It appears that it’s likely the spike protein itself. Now, we know that it gets excreted in breast milk. That has been proven. So it isn’t a huge leap to think that it might be also transferred via saliva or semen or other bodily fluids. And that is the theory. But there are people who also say that just being in proximity, close proximity to people who are vaccinated somehow impacts them. You know, they feel the effects. It’s hard for me to understand the mechanism by which that would happen. Spike proteins just falling off people’s skin. That doesn’t seem reasonable to me. So I think transfer of bodily fluids. I could make that leap pretty easily, but anything else is still a bit of a mystery to me. And as you said, John, rightly so, the studies simply haven’t been done.
SPEAKER 14 :
Okay. I’ll leave it at that. Dr. Kelly, thank you as always. I appreciate your time. I learn something every week.
SPEAKER 04 :
Terrific. Thanks for having me. You’re very welcome. And again, my apologies for being tardy.
SPEAKER 14 :
You’re fine. No apology needed. Steve, same. Thank you. I learn from you each week as well. Thanks, John.
SPEAKER 07 :
I think your voice sounds really good, so you better keep it for a while.
SPEAKER 14 :
Thanks, Sam. Appreciate you very much. All right. That is it for Dr. Kelly, Victory, and Steve House. Veteran Windows and Doors is coming up next. 35% off three windows or less. 40% off if you do four or more. Go to klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 05 :
It’s time to leave your safe space. This is Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right, that’s it for this hour. Appreciate y’all listening. Hour two is next. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
