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The discussion further explores the persecution of Christians, notably in Nigeria, where the government faces international scrutiny for failing to curb religiously motivated violence. By highlighting firsthand testimonies from Bishop Wilford Anagabe and others, the episode calls for action, urging international bodies to redesignate Nigeria as a country of particular concern. This engaging episode also reflects on the impact of American elections on policy shifts, comparing actions taken under different administrations and emphasizing the power of a faith-based perspective in governance.
SPEAKER 01 :
from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins starts now.
SPEAKER 03 :
I can tell you that President Trump is dead serious on this issue. He’s dead serious that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. If we can’t figure this out at the negotiating table, then there are other options to include my department to ensure that Iran never has a nuclear bomb. We hope we never get there.
SPEAKER 14 :
That was Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth on Fox News yesterday. Welcome to this April 14th edition of Washington Watch. Thanks so much for tuning in. Well, over the weekend, direct talks between the United States and Iran were described as constructive, with a second round of negotiations scheduled for April the 19th. We’ll unpack the content of those discussions, the next steps, and what’s likely to come from them with Elon Berman, Senior Vice President of the American Foreign Policy Council. Also, this past weekend, Russia launched a major missile attack on Ukraine, killing at least 34 people.
SPEAKER 12 :
We have millions of people dead, millions of people dead because of three people. I would say three people. Let’s say Putin, number one. But let’s say Biden, who had no idea what he was doing. Number two, and Zelensky. And all I can do is try and stop it. That’s all I want to do. I want to stop the killing.
SPEAKER 14 :
That was President Donald Trump earlier today. We’ll talk with New Jersey Congressman Chris Smith, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, about what this communicates regarding Russia wanting a ceasefire. We’ll also discuss disturbing reports out of Nigeria where the government is allegedly retaliating against a Catholic bishop who testified alongside me before Congressman Smith’s subcommittee last month. Plus, I’ll share highlights from my conversation with House Speaker Mike Johnson from over the weekend.
SPEAKER 09 :
In some ways, it’s a benefit to be constantly underestimated. It allows us to get it done and surprise everybody, and that’s fine. And frankly, between you and me, then God gets the glory for it.
SPEAKER 14 :
All right, an inside conversation with the House Speaker coming up later here on Washington Watch. And here’s a question for you. How does our government go from celebrating Transgender Visibility Sunday one year to celebrating Resurrection Sunday the next? Well, the answer is simple. It’s called an election. FRC’s Brent Kylan, the Vice President for Strategic Initiatives at the Family Research Council, joins me to analyze the dramatic shift in our nation’s posture toward Christianity since the last election. And finally, Session 9 of our God and Government series is out today. In this episode, I examine poverty through a biblical lens, its root causes, and who Scripture says is responsible for addressing it. You might be surprised. You can find this episode exclusively on the StandFirm app. If you don’t have the StandFirm app, I’ll tell you what. Text the word course, that’s C-O-U-R-S-E, course to 67742, 67742, and I’ll send you a link. Yesterday during Palm Sunday services in many Ukraine churches, Russia launched a massive missile attack against the Ukrainian city of Sumy, killing at least 34 Ukrainians. Also, the Nigerian government retaliating against Bishop Wilford Anabagi, who testified next to me at a hearing last month on Capitol Hill. Joining us now to discuss these issues and more, New Jersey Congressman Chris Smith, a tireless voice for the voiceless. Congressman Smith, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us. Tony, thank you so very much.
SPEAKER 11 :
Great to see you again.
SPEAKER 14 :
Let me start with this, Congressman. I want to get your reaction to the news of this latest missile attack against Ukraine. I mean, this at a time when we’re hearing all of this conversation about a ceasefire. I mean, actions speak louder in words. than words. This man, Vladimir Putin, doesn’t appear to be seeking peace.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, again, another bold manifestation by a dictator who should be in chains at The Hague for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity, and that’s Putin. Unfortunately, he just continues to manifest unbelievable violence and visit upon the Ukrainian people. And it’s Trump. President Trump is right. It’s got to stop. You know, at what point he loses his own troops. Anybody, any commander, field commander who would have lost so many troops the way he has in such a reckless manner would have been removed immediately. And brought to trial by his own people. Here we have a guy that doesn’t care about the loss of Russian life and cares even less about the loss of Ukrainian life. So the more the president pushes for this, not only a ceasefire, but an end to this wanton destruction, the better. And I’m all for it. using every means possible, every single solitary economic imposition on that, trade and everything else on Russia. It’s got to, you know, why do the people tolerate this in Russia? Yes, he is a dictator and he has a secret police. But even those individuals, the secret police, ought to be ashamed of what Putin has done to their own people and the crimes against humanity, against the people of Ukraine.
SPEAKER 14 :
Let me ask you to weigh in on the international response to this, which has been basically the silence has been deafening. When you compare this to the international community that has been constantly after Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel as they have been fighting against the aggression of Hamas that attacked them, And, you know, Israel, when they attack, when they’ve been attacking Hamas, they notify the residents, the Palestinians. They tell them, look, an attack is coming. Leave the area. You need to evacuate. We’re going to attack. Of course, Russia doesn’t do that. But I’ve not heard the international community calling Putin a war criminal and the ICC seeking to arrest him.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, it’s a great point. You know, after the first month after Putin’s totally unprovoked invasion of Ukraine, I offered the idea and then offered legislation that he be brought before a tribunal. And, you know, everyone said, oh, well, the Security Council will never authorize the ICC to do it. The General Assembly could, and that criminal apparatus could have been set up. He could have been tried, as well as Lavrov and Lukashenko over in nearby Belarus and a host of others. And they could have been branded right from the start as war criminals. And you’re right, the silence is deafening. And, you know, just to say, give more weapons, kill more people, that’s not the answer. You know, we what we really have to do now is isolate this this this cancer at the very top of Russia and bring it to trial. There has been one small indictment levied against Putin because of his abduction of children, his kidnapping of those children. But what’s come of it? Where’s the effort to prosecute? It’s all just laying out there. We saw the same thing happen with Milosevic. That took years in Serbia when he invaded Croatia and Bosnia in the Balkans.
SPEAKER 14 :
I want to shift to another troubled region. Nigeria has continued to be a country of particular concern to many of us because of their – attacks on religious freedom. Last month, I testified before your subcommittee, as did a Catholic bishop. News came out that Bishop Wilford was being retaliated against last week because of his testimony before your commission calling for the government of Nigeria to be labeled in the official term of a country of particular concern. Tell us what you know about this and what’s being done.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, first of all, thank you, Tony, for testifying. You know, your wealth of knowledge, the fact that you were the chairman of the International Religious Freedom Commission and did a spectacular job there. You brought a great deal of weight and gravitas to the hearing and your wisdom was welcomed by members of our committee. So thank you, as well as your insights. Bishop and Abe, you know, were very fearful for his life. The fact that the government has not stepped up to really robustly protect him. The threats that have been made are very real in his area, in his actual locale. A number of people have been killed recently since April 3rd. We believe that’s more horrible message sending by the terrorists. And what did he do while he was here? And he did go over to the parliament in the UK and testify there as well. And you sat right next to him when he gave his testimony. He went right after you. He made it clear that the Fulani are waging a jihadist war against Christians and pious Muslims because they do kill Muslims, too. people who don’t adhere to the very aggressive jihadist viewpoint. And so many, there’s more Christians who have died in Nigeria than any other country in the world. Yes, in China, they put them in prison and they torture them, but not as many die, same way with North Korea. But here we’re talking about firebombing churches, individuals, killing priests, Right as we had our hearing, we brought up the fact that there was a priest who was summarily executed, and it’s just horrific bloodletting. The government in Abuja has not stepped up to the plate, and the International Religious Freedom Act makes very clear, as you know so well, a law authored by our great friend Frank Wolf. that not only the actual complicity in working to hurt people of faith and to incarcerate and kill, but if you stand with your hands in your pockets and allow people to do it as well, that too constitutes designation, country of particular concern, and then you are sanctionable and there are many, many very serious sanctions that could be brought against that government. So we’re saying Designate Nigeria as a CPC, country of particular concern, and then sanction them. The time has come. We’ve got to step up. I’ve been raising this issue. I’m not the only one. You have too. For decades, not just years. Right. It’s just it’s outrageous.
SPEAKER 14 :
There should be no question about this. This is I want to underscore what you said earlier. This is the most dangerous place in the world to be if you’re a Christian. The number one place where Christians die in the world has been Nigeria. We just have about two minutes left. Congressman, real quick.
SPEAKER 11 :
The last administration took away the Trump imposed CPC designation without any justification whatsoever. It was appalling.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yes, and I met with the former Secretary of State to discuss the issue, and they said it was because of climate change, not religious intolerance.
SPEAKER 11 :
Which is nuts.
SPEAKER 14 :
But I want to shift to another African nation. This is not new, but we now have the opportunity to pull back the curtain on what Western nations, including the U.S., have been doing on the African continent. Talk about Sierra Leone and the push to legalize abortion there.
SPEAKER 11 :
We just have about a minute and a half left. Sure. The last administration gave a huge amount of money in the Millennium Challenge Corporation, half a billion dollars. And the quid pro quo, by everything we can discover about it, was that they need to legalize abortion as, you know, this is a bribe, a bribe from the U.S. taxpayers. There is a bill now falsely named the Safe Motherhood Act, which will legalize abortion up to the 14th week of gestation on demand and you know they use the word health please that’s we’ve had that fight for 50 years here it means on demand and and so I’ve been talking to a number of people in the government including the speaker I’m speaking at by way of a video on Wednesday at a conference that they’re holding there to try to rally support or opposition I should say to that egregious bill and I The international community is patting them on the back at the recent U.N. meeting that just concluded this week. Who gave the statement on behalf of many nations in favor of abortion, sexual and reproductive health and rights? It was Sierra Leone stepping up and getting all these applause, all these applaudeds from the Europeans and by the NGOs that voted. look at unborn children as throwaways and believe they should be killed with impunity. So our hope is that, God willing, enough lawmakers will stand firm and not buy into this. And I argue, finally, Tony, if I could really quick, that there’s a number of initiatives, including pregnancy care centers, but also a program called Safe Passages, which can help to We’ve profoundly changed paternal mortality in Sierra Leone by having skilled birth attendants, safe blood, and other kinds of helps so the woman can have her baby.
SPEAKER 14 :
Chris, we’ve got to leave it there, but I want to pick it up at a later date. Folks, stick with us. We’re back after this.
SPEAKER 10 :
At Family Research Council, we believe religious freedom is a fundamental human right that all governments must protect. That’s why FRC President Tony Perkins went to Capitol Hill to testify on behalf of persecuted Christians in Nigeria. Islamist terror groups target Christians and other religious minorities in Nigeria with brutal violence. Representative Chris Smith, who chaired the hearing, said 55,000 people have been killed and 21,000 abducted in the last five years alone. The congressman also stressed that 89% of Christians in the world who are martyred are from Nigeria.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yet the government of Nigeria has failed to make progress against religiously motivated persecution of Christians despite religious freedom being enshrined as an essential human right in their constitution.
SPEAKER 10 :
Tony Perkins called for the United States to send an unmistakable message.
SPEAKER 14 :
This is systematic religious violence. Nigeria must be redesignated a country of particular concern.
SPEAKER 13 :
The Biden administration’s removal of this designation was a reckless mistake that emboldened the very terrorists who are slaughtering Christians.
SPEAKER 10 :
Redesignating Nigeria will enable the U.S. government to pressure Nigerian leaders to protect vulnerable Christians.
SPEAKER 13 :
These are not just numbers. These are fathers, their mothers, their children, their families.
SPEAKER 10 :
Bishop Wilfred Anagabe risked his life to speak out, sharing firsthand accounts of the danger faced in his church district in central Nigeria.
SPEAKER 08 :
We live in fear because at any point it can be our turn to be killed. But to remain silent is to die twice. So I have chosen to speak.
SPEAKER 10 :
FRC is calling on President Trump to act now to promote religious freedom around the globe and speak up on behalf of Christians in Nigeria.
SPEAKER 02 :
Download the new Stand Firm app for Apple and Android phones today and join a wonderful community of fellow believers. We’ve created a special place for you to access news from a biblical perspective, read and listen to daily devotionals, pray for current events and more. Share the Stand Firm app with your friends, family and church members and stand firm everywhere you go.
SPEAKER 15 :
Looking for a trusted source of news that shares your Christian values? Turn to The Washington Stand, your ultimate destination for informed, faith-centered reporting. Our dedicated team goes beyond the headlines, delivering stories that matter most to believers. From breaking events to cultural insights, we provide clear, compassionate coverage through a biblical lens. Discover news you can trust at The Washington Stand, where faith and facts meet every day.
SPEAKER 14 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us on this Monday. Unfortunately, those breaks come and we don’t get to finish our conversations. But I really wanted to talk more with Congressman Smith about that. And we’ll pick it up on another day. But I just want to underscore what we were talking about. And that is that our own government, along with other Western governments, been pushing an agenda quietly. through the State Department that runs counter to the values that most of us as Americans believe in. And we’ve talked about this before, but here is clear evidence where, you know, not only the LGBTQ agenda, but abortion using your tax dollars, that’s now being exposed and we have to stop it. There’s an even more sinister plot behind this. Not only is it pushing this agenda on very religious countries like those in Africa, but it’s designed to bring it back around through the United Nations and then force America to comply with the rest of the world. That’s what the left does. Obviously the right doesn’t feel like, they don’t feel compelled to march according to the beat of the drum of the UN, but the left does. So these are important conversations, and I hope to follow back up with Congressman Chris Smith, who does a great job. He really is. And if you live in New Jersey, I would encourage you, if you don’t have our Stand Firm app and a means of communicating, but communicate with him and just thank him for his unwavering support for the voiceless. He does a great job. All right, how do you go in this country from… One Sunday being celebrated in one year, Sunday celebrating Transgender Visibility Sunday to the very next year celebrating Resurrection Sunday. Well, it happens because of elections. That’s what, if you’ll recall, Easter Sunday, Resurrection Sunday last year, Joe Biden, his White House put out a celebration of Transgender Visibility Day. And of course, this year, as we just have gone from Passover to Resurrection Sunday, the Trump administration putting out a presidential message on Holy Week, and I’ll read in part. It says, He goes on to write, through his death, we are forgiven our sins. Through his resurrection, we have hope of eternal life. And then he goes on to say, my administration renews its promise to defend the Christian faith in our schools, military, workplaces, hospitals, and halls of government. We will never waver in safeguarding the right to religious liberty, upholding the dignity of life, and protecting God in our public square. What a difference. Join me now to to discuss this. Brent Kylan, FRC’s vice president for strategic initiatives. Brent, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thanks, Tony. Good to be with you again.
SPEAKER 14 :
For all of those Christians who were wondering, you know, if their vote mattered, I can’t think of a more. stark illustration when you compare what was done last Easter Sunday, Resurrection Sunday morning, to what we have going into this Resurrection Sunday.
SPEAKER 06 :
Tony, absolutely. And, you know, for us as Christians, you know, this is just such a special, meaningful week. As you were saying earlier, you look at what Good Friday means and what Resurrection Sunday means for us. This is so important. And as we’re comparing these governmental administrations and how they’re treating a sacred day like this, you know, we’re not doing that expecting or asking the government to be doing things we as Christians or believers should be doing ourselves as individuals. But we acknowledge the government has a profound impact on really the environment itself. of faith in this country? Is it creating a welcoming environment or a hostile environment or a chilling effect? And the contrast here is just so, so big. Tony, one of the other parts of that Trump proclamation that just really encouraged me is he said he and his wife, they join in prayer with Christians celebrating the crucifixion, resurrection of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the living Son of God who conquered death, freed us from sin, and unlocked the gates of heaven. And again, you just compare that. That was just one year ago that Joe Biden said the National Transgender Day of Visibility was also on Easter Sunday, just 12th. months ago, and the contrast really couldn’t be more stark.
SPEAKER 14 :
And I’m going to go back to, you said the impact this has on the environment. This creates an environment in which Christians can live out their faith. We’re not looking for the government to evangelize. That’s not their role. It’s the role of the church. It’s the role of Christians. But you cannot overstate the importance of this. So I want you to speak to those Christians who didn’t vote. And it didn’t cast a vote thinking it wouldn’t make a difference.
SPEAKER 06 :
Tony, elections do have consequences, and we’re seeing a difference not just in words, not just in public proclamations, but also in actions. You look at what the Trump administration is doing just this year. They’ve come out with this task force to root out anti-Christian bias. And then you juxtapose that with what the Biden administration was doing. You know, just a lot of examples that we could talk about. We don’t have time to talk about them all, but going after Christian peaceful pro-life activists, trying to sentence them to multi-year jail sentences that includes people like a a grandma of 75 years old, a mom of 87 years old, a dad of 11 kids, a Catholic priest. That’s the comparison. And so you have a difference, again, not just in words, but in actions. And so if you’re thinking about not voting because you think both administrations are ultimately going to do the same thing, this is the type of comparison I would really encourage you to look at because it’s such a stark difference.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, let me just read from one of the headline stories today out of the AP. The State Department has issued an appeal for its employees to report instances of alleged anti-Christian bias, including formal or informal actions due to opposition to vaccines or personal pronoun choices that may have occurred during the Biden administration. Concrete example of what you’re talking about. The State Department is… is called the swamp for a reason. Not only is it physically located, what used to be a swamp, but it is the swamp. It is the epitome of the swamp. And that’s where this is coming from. It’s government-wide, rooting out, and we’ve been talking to many of these agency heads and the various departments that have been tasked with rooting out this anti-Christian bias. This is the result of elections. All right, Brent. Thanks for joining us. Great to see you. Appreciate it, Tony. Thank you. All right, folks, your vote matters. It matters. It really does. That doesn’t mean everything’s perfect, but it’s better than it was. All right, don’t go away. We’re back with more after this.
SPEAKER 05 :
Everything we do begins as an idea. Before there can be acts of courage, there must be the belief that some things are worth sacrificing for. Before there can be marriage, there is the idea that man should not be alone. Before there was freedom, there was the idea that individuals are created equal. It’s true that all ideas have consequences, but we’re less aware that all consequences are the fruit of ideas. Before there was murder, there was hate. Before there was a Holocaust, there was the belief by some people that other people are undesirable. Our beliefs determine our behavior, and our beliefs about life’s biggest questions determine our world view. Where did I come from? Who decides what is right and wrong? What happens when I die? Our answers to these questions explain why people see the world so differently. Debates about abortion are really disagreements about where life gets its value. Debates over sexuality and gender and marriage are really disagreements about whether the rules are made by us or for us. What we think of as political debates are often much more than that. They are disagreements about the purpose of our lives and the source of truth. As Christians, our goal must be to think biblically about everything. Our goal is to help you see beyond red and blue, left and right, to see the battle of ideas at the root of it all. Our goal is to equip Christians with a biblical worldview and help them advance and defend the faith in their families, communities, and the public square. Cultural renewal doesn’t begin with campaigns and elections. It begins with individuals turning from lies to truth. But that won’t happen if people can’t recognize a lie and don’t believe truth exists. We want to help you see the spiritual war behind the political war, the truth claims behind the press release and the forest and the trees.
SPEAKER 14 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us. The website, TonyPerkins.com. Better yet, get the Stand Firm app, and that way you can have Washington Watch with you no matter where you go, plus all of our other resources, the Washington Stand, Stand on the Word, and even my weekend show this week on Capitol Hill. Speaking of that, last week, Republicans on Capitol Hill again did what Democrats in the legacy media said they couldn’t do. They approved the budget framework that allows the party to begin the process of drafting President Trump’s one big, beautiful bill, all the policy initiatives that he wants to accomplish. Well, this is something I talked about with House Speaker Mike Johnson on our weekend program, on my weekend program this week on Capitol Hill. And I thought you might like to hear part of that. So I want to share part of that interview with you right now. Let me step back for just a moment. A very tough week, but it’s followed another tough week, which followed another tough week. It’s been difficult. And as I referenced earlier, a lot of people say, I don’t know how he does it, but he keeps pulling these rabbits out of the hat. But there’s more to it. There’s a lot of prayer that goes into this, but there’s a burden that you carry with this. Talk about how you navigate these critical moments on Capitol Hill.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, with a lot of faith, a lot of prayer, a lot of patience. You know, this is really high-stakes stuff. And, you know, the one big beautiful bill we’re talking about is arguably one of the most consequential pieces of legislation, one of the most comprehensive pieces of legislation that the Congress has ever dealt with in its entire history since 1789. So we don’t take this lightly, but we don’t carry the burden as a heavy weight. I mean, we understand the historic significance of the moment we’re in. And you just got to keep a steady hand through it. You know, I’m blessed in that regard. I have a deep faith and obviously faith in God who we seek his wisdom and guidance for every day. But also in my colleagues, you know, I mean, it’s a good group of folks. They have very different interests, very different ideas, very different priorities among them. But at the end of the day, I’m confident. And each time that we can get everybody together and we always do. And, you know, sometimes it takes a lot of effort to do that. And a lot of listening, a lot of letting people emote and sometimes get angry and work through five stages of grief and all that. But we get to the point of consensus. And that’s the beauty of a deliberative public body like this. The Congress of the United States is the greatest deliberative body in the world. We ought to act right. And we try to do that every day.
SPEAKER 14 :
But it’s not always been that way. And I think that there’s something a little different that’s taking place here in terms of your leadership style, that people look at it and think, well, this is just—it’s an ugly process. It’s a difficult process. But that is the process. When you allow the members of Congress to have a voice in the process and to reach consensus that everyone can live with, it’s a difficult process.
SPEAKER 09 :
It is. And, you know, it takes a lot of a lot of patience and you can’t get angry. You can’t take anything personal. People get very emotional because the stakes are so high at certain points and all this. But that’s that’s part of it. So I don’t get rattled by that. You know, I don’t I don’t take any of the the barbs personally. They come all the time. That’s sort of part of the job. But you just keep your eye on the prize. And that’s what we do. I know that our mission is so critical. for the future of this country, Tony. And we are the greatest nation in the history of the world. We’re the last great superpower on the planet and we have to maintain that status. And so we don’t really have the luxury of allowing emotions to get in the way of this. We just have to get the mission accomplished. And I’m, you know, I’m grateful that we’re continuing to do that and defy the odds. It’s, it’s in some ways, it’s a, it’s a benefit to be constantly underestimated. You know, it allows us to get it done and surprise everybody. And that’s fine. And then, you know, frankly, between you and me, then God gets the glory for it.
SPEAKER 14 :
So, talk a little bit about your relationship with President Donald Trump in this process, because there have been times that he’s been very helpful in this process. But this last round, really, when it came to the negotiations of getting this across the line, it appears that it was you working with the majority leader in the Senate that really got this across the line.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, look, the president is one of a kind. He’s the most powerful political force probably in the history of American politics, or maybe politics anywhere in history. And he’s always willing to engage, but I didn’t want to burden him with making phone calls to members. I just thought we need to take care of the business in the House ourselves. And with Senate, grateful that Majority Leader Thune has the same perspective. And he and I, as you know, did a press conference yesterday morning or right before the vote. And that was that was really important that we had a signal that the House and the Senate are united. Republicans are working together. It’s a one team approach. And I think that’s helpful to the White House. Ultimately, we have to deliver on the America first agenda. But we’re the Article one branch of the government and we ought to act like it and we get to get our business done. So the president’s a great partner, but it’s helpful when he doesn’t have to spend his time engaging in what we’re doing.
SPEAKER 14 :
Mr. Speaker, the House is out for a couple of weeks, Easter break, and then return after that. You’re going to be, as you are now, crisscrossing the country, doing the political thing that goes along with the policy thing. What do you anticipate when you return?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, we’re going to have a very, very busy time because all of the bills that will make up, they’ll be pulled together and become the one big beautiful beach. The components of that will be marked up in various committees. We have 11 different House committees that are tasked with instructions on the reconciliation. So a lot of work will go into taking those drafts and working through the regular order of the committee process, fine-tuning it, making amendments and getting that in its final shape. So there’ll be a lot of activity in both the House and Senate and a very close collaboration and cooperation between the two chambers. I mean, really, when I say one team, Tony, it’s not just a sort of a rally cry. This is exactly how it’s going to work and how it has to work. Because at the end of the day, with small margins of both chambers, to your point earlier, we’ve got to have every member with a say and have some involvement. So a lot of that will be working simultaneously across the two chambers of the Capitol. It’s going to be a very busy time and a very exciting time for the country.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, that was part of my conversation with House Speaker Mike Johnson during my weekend program this week on Capitol Hill. To find out more about that program, I encourage you to visit thisweekoncapitolhill.com. Or if you have the Stand Firm app, you can pick it up each Saturday evening. After the break, we’re going to be talking about Iran and unpacking this weekend’s discussion between the U.S. and Iran and next steps. So don’t go away.
SPEAKER 04 :
What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful 13-part series that equips you with biblical truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. From the Ten Commandments in classrooms to the immigration crisis of America, we’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. New episodes available each Monday. To view the series on the Stand Firm app, text COURSE to 67742.
SPEAKER 05 :
The world is hurting. Streets are filled with crime. Families are broken. Sin is celebrated. And God is mocked. Everywhere we look, the wages of our sin are on full display. As Christians, we know that surrender to God’s will is the solution to our biggest problems, but not everyone agrees. Even in church, we hear people say the most important thing is to be tolerant, that we shouldn’t impose a morality on other people, and that loving our neighbor means celebrating what they do. But you can’t do that. It’s not that you don’t love your neighbor. You do. But you care about God’s opinion more than your neighbor’s opinion. And this makes you different. In fact, sometimes it makes you feel alone, like you are the only one. But there is good news. You are not alone. Not even close. Research has found that there are 59 million American adults who are a lot like you. There are millions of people around the country who are born again, deeply committed to practicing their faith, and believe the Bible is the reliable Word of God. But that’s not all. They’re also engaged in our government. They’re voters. They’re more likely to be involved in their community, and they’re making a difference in elections. The problem is that a lot of them feel alone too. We want to change that. FRC wants to connect these 59 million Americans to speak the truth together, no matter the cost. If you want to learn more about this group and what it means to be a spiritually active, governance-engaged conservative, or if you want to find out if you are one of these sage cons yourself, go to frc.org slash sagecon and take the quiz to find out. The world is hurting and we have the solution. We can’t do it alone, but we can do it if we work together. That’s what we’re working toward every day. Join us. Go to FRC.org slash S-A-G-E-C-O-N SageCon to learn more. That’s S-A-G-E-C-O-N SageCon to learn more.
SPEAKER 14 :
This is Washington Watch. I’m Tony Perkins and glad to have you along. Episode nine of our God and Government course is now out. You can find it exclusively on the Stand Firm app. And this week, I deal with the issue of poverty. What does the Bible have to say about poverty? What are its root causes? And who’s responsible for addressing it? You might be surprised. So if you don’t have the Stand Firm app, I tell you what, text the word course to 67742. That’s 67742, the word course. I’ll send you a link. Our word for today comes from Ezekiel 33. Son of man, speak to your people and say to them, if I bring the sword upon a land and the people of the land take a man from among them and make him their watchman, and if he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows the trumpet and warns the people, then if anyone who hears the sound of the trumpet does not take warning and the sword comes and takes him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. So you, son of man, I have made a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me. So God uses the image of a watchman appointed by the people to warn of physical danger, to illustrate the far greater responsibility of those called to be spiritual watchmen. These are the men and women charged with sounding the alarm over spiritual threats that have eternal consequences. If the people would hold a natural watchman accountable for silence, how much more will God hold accountable those who he has entrusted the truth and his warnings? To find out more about our journey through the Bible, text BIBLE to 67742. Well, as we mentioned at the top of the program, the United States and officials from Iran met directly for direct talks on Saturday to discuss nuclear ambitions and a potential path toward peace. The White House describes the meeting as positive and constructive and a critical first step to a mutually beneficial outcome. Or what could such an outcome look like? Can peace be achieved between the United States and Iran? Here to discuss this is Elon Berman. He is the senior vice president of the American Foreign Policy Council. He is an expert on the regional security in the Middle East, previously consulting for the CIA and the Departments of State and the Department of Defense. Elon, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks for joining us today.
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, good to be back.
SPEAKER 14 :
So I just want to immediately kind of get your thoughts on Saturday’s meeting, how the conversations went. What do we know?
SPEAKER 07 :
So I think the jury’s still out. All of the public messaging has been that it was a constructive early step, but it was an early step. The parties are ostensibly meeting again this coming weekend in Rome, Italy, but already you’re beginning to see at least a little bit of tension creep into the conversation because the pace on the negotiations, as we talked about before, The Iranians have a very vested interest in having negotiations last longer. The White House really wants them to be short and to the point. And the question is, how many cycles of this can we go through before there’s really an understanding that the Trump administration means business?
SPEAKER 14 :
That was kind of what I picked up from President Trump’s comments earlier today, that he’s not for dragging this thing out. He wants action and he wants it quickly because I think he may know when someone’s trying to play him.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, listen, I think that’s absolutely right. And that’s the reason why the president said when he sent the initial letter offering negotiations to the Iranians, he set a two-month timeframe. That clock is now ticking, right? It’s been ticking since this weekend. And it’s very clear that the White House wants action for a couple of reasons, right, which we discussed before. because the room for maneuver for the international community to restore sanctions is expiring, because every week that we wait, Iran marches a little bit closer to the nuclear weapons threshold. And so for all of these reasons, the White House really wants some sort of definitive answer. And soon, and for exactly the same reasons, the Iranians want not to give a definitive answer soon.
SPEAKER 14 :
Elon, prior to Saturday’s meeting, you posted a comment on X. You said that the Trump administration won’t just be negotiating with the Islamic Republic in this instance. What did you mean by that? Who else is involved in this?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, what’s interesting is that we are, I think, laser focused on the negotiations between Washington and Tehran. But the Iranians are trying to play this on many different levels. And so simultaneous with negotiations with the president’s Middle East envoy, Steve Woodcock, the Iranians have also sent emissaries to Moscow and Beijing. to negotiate a common trilateral stance on the nuclear program. And I think that’s really one to watch because that’s going to be the Iranian play. Iran is going to nudge Moscow and Beijing into trying to play a larger and larger role in the negotiations, trying to broker some sort of multilateral agreement. And by default, because both Russia and China are strategic partners of the Islamic Republic, this is going to be an agreement where it’s three against one.
SPEAKER 14 :
Could that kind of backfire, though, given in the same setting today, the president making asked questions about the Russian attack, missile attack on Ukraine over the weekend, clearly irritated by this because he’s not been able to accomplish what he said he was going to do, and that is get a ceasefire there. I mean, I let me ask you this question. Is he operating with a short fuse in terms of patience, given what he’s already been up against?
SPEAKER 07 :
I think so, and I think increasingly so. And by the way, the Ukrainian strategy of agreeing to this 30-day ceasefire I think has a lot of merit, because from the Ukrainian side, I think what they’re trying to do for the Trump administration is to demonstrate that Russia is not negotiating in good faith. Russia continues to carry out acts of aggression, like we saw over this past weekend. But here the adversary also gets a vote. And so what I think you could possibly see is the Russians have already said that they want to play a role in brokering some sort of peace, some sort of agreement between Washington and Tehran. The more the Russians are given a chance to do that, the more salience they have and the more patience they get from the White House. So the Russians are not a disinterested party here. If they help out with the Iranians, I think they get a longer leash when it comes to Ukraine.
SPEAKER 14 :
So back with Iran, the regime there and their proxies, are they holding them on a short leash right now?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, no. And in fact, one of the really interesting poison pills that the Iranians have already tried to slide into the negotiations is they’ve made very clear that they’re willing to negotiate like they did last time over their nuclear program, but they’re not willing to negotiate over other things like the activities of their proxies, including Yemen’s Houthi rebels, which are really carrying out a very sophisticated Iran-empowered strategy to hold maritime commerce in the Red Sea hostage. This is, I think, an Iranian play to preserve the integrity of their proxies. It’s also a bargain, frankly, that Washington shouldn’t take.
SPEAKER 14 :
Because if not, if we don’t address all of it now, we’re right back at the table because we’ve seen what the Houthis, for instance, have done to the shipping, international shipping. We see what Hamas has done in the Middle East. So these are all a part of the same problem.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, I think that’s exactly right. And if we shrink down, if we define Iran’s deviancy down to just their nuclear program, we set ourselves up for strategic surprise because Iran has made very clear over the last three years that it’s not moving around the region in a predictable fashion. It’s using proxies, it’s using cutouts, but it’s doing things that are fundamentally changing the security environment in the Middle East and not in our favor and not in the favor of our allies like Israel. And so addressing just one aspect of Iran’s rogue behavior is a recipe for more rogue behavior to come.
SPEAKER 14 :
Is the United States approaching this from a standpoint of trying to exhaust every legitimate means to resolve the nuclear threat that Iran poses to not just the United States, but really to the world, knowing that it’s highly unlikely that this fanatical regime is going to agree to disassemble and let the world see that?
SPEAKER 07 :
I think so. And I think certainly the White House has to at least make some effort to exhaust all options. But I’m not sure that there are many delusions in the White House about the Iranians actually coming to the table and meaningfully dismantling their nuclear program. The other fast mover in this conversation is the government of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, because Israel views Iran, especially a nuclear-armed Iran, as an existential threat to Israeli security. And so this is very much the pace, this is the player that sets the pace for these negotiations. I think it’s clear that if the negotiations drag on, If the negotiations don’t yield something of substance, the Israelis are going to get impatient and the Israelis may move independently militarily. And that’s one of the reasons why the president issued his warning to the Iranians.
SPEAKER 14 :
I mean, this is a very, I mean, high stakes negotiations, because as you’ve pointed out, they, as we talked last week, you know, and we’ve heard this actually for a few years now that they’re at the threshold, but apparently it’s been confirmed that they are at the threshold of being able to take this enriched uranium. And I think still in question is the delivery systems, that that’s not yet been perfected. But we’re close. And so they can’t just keep dragging this out. At some point, it’s fish or cut bait.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, that’s exactly right. And actually on the delivery systems, the ballistic missiles, the Iranians have actually made pretty significant progress. It’s that third prong, the weaponization, the conversion of the enriched uranium into warheads, putting it on a missile that they’re still working on. But every intelligence estimate that I’ve seen in the unclassified domain suggests that that’s going to happen as early as this summer and as late as next summer. So we are looking at a window of opportunity of 18 months before the Iranians have a usable nuclear weapon or perhaps many. And so the clock is very, very clearly ticking on this one.
SPEAKER 14 :
If I’m not mistaken, I think ballistic missiles were also a part of the discussions this weekend.
SPEAKER 07 :
So I think it remains to be seen. And this is, I think, a really important point because in the JCPOA, in the 2015 nuclear deal that Iran hammered out with the P5 plus one countries, ballistic missiles were taken out of the scope of work. And that was seen by the Trump administration when it decided, the first time it was in office, when it decided to abrogate the deal as a fatal flaw. So It’s going to be really one of the make or break moments in these negotiations that the Trump administration is having now with the Iranians. Trump is going to want ballistic missiles to stay in. And for the very same reason, the Iranians are going to want to take them out of the negotiations.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, and they’ve been able to advance the ballistic missiles during this time period.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, absolutely. And in fact, what is staring sort of down the road at us is that this fall, the final provisions of the 2015 nuclear deal known as the JCPOA fall away. And so there’s already a more liberal environment for conventional weapons commerce with the Islamic Republic. And after October, the gate gets blown wide open. And so there’s a worry that Iran will, after October, after this fall, when there’s not a threat of the rapid reimposition of multilateral sanctions, Iran is going to sprint to improve the sophistication of its ballistic missiles in ways that are going to be very, very dangerous to the Western community.
SPEAKER 14 :
Is there any evidence that they’ve been able to utilize their proxies, or in particular Russia, in enhancing some of their technology? Because I know, like for instance with us, our relationship with Israel. I mean, Israel’s constantly utilizing military equipment. We’re getting the benefit of that, and we’re upping our game as a result of the intelligence and the actual practical application of that materiel. Are the Iranians doing the same thing?
SPEAKER 07 :
So yes, and they have been for some time. The Russians have provided for years, have provided very significant inputs into their nuclear program, advisedly their civilian nuclear program, nuclear reactors and such. And the Chinese have been helping, as has the North Koreans, in improving the sophistication of their ballistic missiles. And that is having actually a trickle-down effect. In terms of Iran’s ballistic missile sophistication, that translates into the sophistication of weapons that are wielded by Iranian proxies like Hezbollah. In fact, when Israel moved against Hezbollah in October, one of their principal targets was eliminating these large stockpiles of Iranian-provided missiles because those missiles were seen as a danger to the security of the Jewish state. And so it’s very clear that what comes to Iran doesn’t stay in Iran.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, that goes back to your earlier point. As the United States is engaged in these discussions with Russia regarding Ukraine, there are other factors out there that need to come into that conversation. One, I mean, we really need to lean on Putin. I mean, Putin, I don’t trust the guy. But if we’re going to talk with him and have negotiations with him, we’ve got to lean on him regarding Iran to try to isolate them.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, I think that’s right, but we should do it advisedly and frankly, skeptically. For two decades, we’ve been operating under the premise that if we create the proper conditions, we can really separate the Iranians and the Russians and sort of flip the Russians so that they’re more cooperative. And by the way, these days we’re having that same conversation with regard to Russia and China. But if you look at the Iranian-Russian relationship, Russia is, because of its war in Ukraine, is now actually increasingly dependent on Iranian assistance, Iranian drones, Iranian hardware and battlefield materiel, in a way that, frankly, it’s going to be very hard to pry Moscow away from Tehran because Moscow needs the Iranians.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, it’s a very complicated mix when you when you look out across the globe in what I would say. I mean, it’s been there for a while, but I think it’s gotten worse under the neglect of the previous administration. And Donald Trump has a real mess on his hands to try to figure this out.
SPEAKER 07 :
No, absolutely. And as the president’s made clear, the clock is ticking. The clock is ticking because of how fast Iran is moving towards a nuclear capability and also because disorder breeds disorder elsewhere. And so the longer there’s hostility in the Middle East and there’s conflict in Europe, the more it’s likely to spread. So time is of the essence.
SPEAKER 14 :
Elon, I want to thank you for joining us again today. I really appreciate your insight. And it’s an issue of great concern. So thanks for joining us today.
SPEAKER 07 :
My pleasure.
SPEAKER 14 :
And folks, I would say this is something to be praying about among many things, but it’s a very dangerous world out there. We need to pray the president gets it right. Out of time for today. Until next time, I leave you with the words of the Apostle Paul. He says, when you’ve done everything you can do, prayed, prepared, and taken your stand, by all means, keep standing.
SPEAKER 01 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
