In a riveting conversation, Kim Munson welcomes Holly Kaysen to the show to discuss her ongoing legal battles against NGO lawsuits. Accused of voter intimidation in a baseless lawsuit, Holly and her co-defendants were forced into a lengthy court battle. We talk about the Christianberg Standard, an outdated legal doctrine that allows NGOs to sue with little risk, leaving defendants with hefty legal costs even when they win. This episode is a testament to the power and necessity of standing up for one’s rights and the challenges that come with navigating through coercive legal structures.
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It’s the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
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An early childhood taxing district? What on earth is that?
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The latest in politics and world affairs.
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I don’t think that we should be passing legislation that is so complicated that people kind of throw up their hands and say, I can’t understand that.
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Today’s current opinions and ideas.
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And it’s not fair just because you’re a big business that you get a break on this and the little guy doesn’t.
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Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
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Indeed, let’s have a conversation, and welcome to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You’re each treasured, you’re valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. And thank you to the team, Producer Joe, Producer Luke is behind the boards here, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, Amanda, and everybody at Crawford Broadcasting. Thank you, and Producer Luke, thanks for being behind the boards. Producer Joe’s a little under the weather, so thanks for stepping in. Yeah, absolutely. I’m happy to do it. It’s great to have you. And of course, you were one of our featured guests earlier in the week as we’re doing our book review of The Prince by Machiavelli. Machiavelli, that’s right. Machiavelli. Got to get it right. It’s a hard name. I don’t think anyone blames you. I still don’t think I have it spelling it correct, but I will by next month for sure. But that’s always great conversations. Do check out the website. That is kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. And while you’re there, sign up for our weekly email newsletter. That way you’ll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at kimmunson.com. Text line is 720-605-0647. We do want to hear from you. I appreciate all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice on an independent station searching for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, Force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And it’s never compassionate nor altruistic to take other people’s rights, whether or not it’s their property, freedom, livelihood, opportunity, their childhoods, or their lives via force. And force could be a weapon, but we see it with policy and An unpredictable and excessive taxation, fear, coercion, government-induced inflation, the agenda by the World Economic Forum and the globalist elites, the United Nations, this Colorado State Legislature. We’ve got just a couple, well, three more days. I think that their last day is the 6th. And this governor, who knows what’s going to happen between now and then. But land use codes and zoning regulations and forest fees and conservation easements, national monument designations, transmission lines easements, CO2 pipelines. We’ve got to make that list smaller instead of bigger. And the other thing on the show is we focus on the issues and try to stay out of all the personality stuff. Now, we’ll mention people that are pushing those issues, but we’re trying to stay out of the eighth-grade girl fighting. That’s what we’re trying to do. In studio with me is my friend Brad Beck. Welcome. Well, thanks for having me, Kim. It’s always a pleasure to be here. It’s always fun and it always goes… It goes by so quick.
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It’s a time machine. It is a time machine. And that list, you know, we need to use it as target practice. Put it out there and just shoot holes in it because it’s just too long. It is too long. And we just saw some demonstration of more government trying to be implemented recently in a town hall meeting, and I’m sure we can talk about it at some point. But it’s amazing what people want to do quickly so others can’t see what’s really going on behind the curtains.
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Yeah, and you and I were at this meeting regarding Douglas County is going to be asking the people of Douglas County to change to home rule. And I don’t yet really understand it, but I think that one of the things that I was concerned about is it seems to be on a fast track. And these things, I think, should be done slowly.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, government by its nature should be debated, and people should have opinions. And it’s great that you have a civil dialogue, and I think they did a great job. Deborah Flora and Jonathan Flora did a great job moderating with Mandy Connell. But, boy, I tell you, there’s a lot of people that were very upset at that event that wanted to know more and wanted to hear more about a process and seemed like they were active citizens but really didn’t know what was going on.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, and so I think that we need to make sure. On these things with PBIs, politicians, bureaucrats, and interested parties, when instead of you’re getting the real explanations, it’s more like it just trusts us? Yeah.
SPEAKER 16 :
It means a different thing in Yiddish.
SPEAKER 09 :
Does it? Can you say that? No, I can’t. You’ll get kicked off the air. Well, let’s get into some of the things that we like to do. The show comes to you. Colonel Rutledge always says, make sure that you tell everybody this. The show comes to you Monday through Friday at 6 to 8 a.m. The first hour is rebroadcast 1 to 2 in the afternoon. The second hour is rebroadcast 10 to 11 at night. And then after that, everything is on Spotify and iTunes. But it’s on all the KLZ 560 platforms, which is KLZ 560 a.m., klz 100.7 fm the klz website the klz app and apparently you can say alexa play klz and it comes in loud and clear well you should yeah i guess you should and uh so yeah check all that out brad let’s get over here To our word of the day, and this is temerity, and it is a noun. It could be excessive boldness or rashness, foolhardiness or recklessness, unreasonable contempt of danger, extreme adventurousness, that’s a hard one to say, and rashness. And so our challenge will be to… Use this in a sentence today. Again, it’s temerity. It’s T-E-M-E-R-I-T-Y. And I would say that there’s a lot of temerity down at the statehouse with some of these wild bills that they are presenting down there.
SPEAKER 16 :
There is. And I was so happy to see so many citizens show up, especially on this parents’ bill of rights aspect of what’s going on down at the Golden Dome. Because too many people are just somnambulant. They’re sleeping. They’re going through life. And yet those folks that showed up did have the temerity to speak their mind to power. And it’s interesting because we need more people doing that all the time.
SPEAKER 09 :
The challenge on this, Brad, is that I feel that the PBIs that have government out of control are flooding the zone, particularly down at the statehouse. So, for example, this legislative session, as of right now, 729 bills or resolutions have have been introduced. Now, the session will be over here in just a few days, but everybody really did focus on this House Bill 1312, which would… And what happened was then they said that they were going to strike different sections. Yeah, sections. Which changed the bill, but you really can’t amend bad bills. You just need to get rid of them.
SPEAKER 16 :
You do, and… Don’t start with them. Get rid of a lot of bills. I mean, do we need 700 more rules, laws, things that control our lives? And, you know, if you go back to the Ten Commandments, I think that’s pretty good. You know, go back to the basic ten and the rest, let’s have a debate about. But there are thousands of rules, laws, edicts that we have to live under. And you and I don’t know. We break ten a day.
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And our founders knew that that was not the way it was supposed to be. Jay Davidson had, we were talking, maybe it was offline, we were talking about Of course, there’s Republican and Democrat trying to put people in those boxes. There’s people that don’t want to be in those boxes. They’re unaffiliated. There’s libertarians. And I was using the word conservative. And he said, I think I want to use some different words. And that would be those that support big government and those that support limited government. And I kind of like that. What do you think about that?
SPEAKER 16 :
I think it’s great. I like freedom versus force. People are for freedom instead of collective force. I like what Anders Ingvarsson talks about, right versus wrong rather than right versus left, because it’s a spectrum. And there’s so many positions that people take. And if they’re 80, 90 percent, as President Reagan once said, hey, they’re in our tent. And let’s work with them. There’s going to be differences. Married couples, talk to them all the time. Any group in a relationship, you’re not going to agree 110%. So there are going to be differences, and that’s okay. It helps make you stronger. It makes your position stronger.
SPEAKER 09 :
But I think the other thing is, because there will be differences, but if the difference is that they believe in force versus freedom, if we believe in freedom and we’re trying to get to that goal, which I think that’s what happened with the founding fathers. Hamilton and Jefferson didn’t like each other, but they had this goal of liberty, the responsible exercise of freedom. If your goal is total government control, we’re not going to be coming together on much at all.
SPEAKER 16 :
And there’s a lot of people down in Denver who think they know better. They have a quandary because they want to control everybody else, but they don’t want somebody to control them. And if the shoe’s on the other foot, all they do is do the usual stuff, which is have rallies and complain and hold all kinds of gatherings that don’t do anything. I want to know what people who disagree with us, what they’re doing to make a difference and convince me, persuade me, use the oratorical skills that the greats use to persuade people. And if it’s through a gun, if it’s through force, that’s not the right way to do it.
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If it’s a good idea, shouldn’t have to force people to do it. An idea has to stand on its own two feet in the battle of ideas. So let’s get into our quote of the day. And since it’s Friday, as you know, we will take a quote from the Medal of Honor quote book from the Center for American Values. And really, the school’s going to be out soon. I can’t believe it. But would really recommend that.
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It’s a good thing. They don’t get indoctrinated.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s true. Unless they were going to that camps. You saw that about that Boulder sex camp, didn’t you? Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Be careful where you’re sending your kids, for sure. But I can guarantee that going down to the Center for American Values will be a great day for you. And they’ve got these beautiful portraits of valor and these on values presentations and Drew Dixon’s. now doing a podcast. You can check all that out at their website, which is AmericanValueCenter.org. But the quote of the day comes from Jack H. Jacobs, Medal of Honor recipient, United States Army. He was born in 1945. And Brad, go ahead and take the first half of this, and then I’ll take the other half.
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For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty, Captain Jacobs, then First Lieutenant, Infantry, distinguished himself while serving as Assistant Battalion Advisor, 2nd Battalion, 16th Infantry, 9th Infantry Division, Army of the Republic of Vietnam. The 2nd Battalion was advancing to contact When it came under intense heavy machine gun fire and mortar fire from the Viet Cong battalion positioned in a well fortified bunkers as the second battalion deployed into attack formation. Its advance was halted by devastating fire. Captain Jacobs with the command element of the lead company called for and directed airstrikes on the enemy positions to facilitate a renewed attack. Due to the intensity of the enemy fire and heavy casualties to the command group, including the company commander, the attack was stopped and the friendly troops became disorganized.
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Although wounded by mortar fragments, Captain Jacobs assumed command of the Allied Company, ordered a withdrawal from the exposed position, and established a defensive perimeter. Despite profuse bleeding from head wounds which impaired his vision, Captain Jacobs, with complete disregard for his safety, returned under intense fire to evacuate a seriously wounded advisor to the safety of a wooded area where he administered life-saving first aid. He then returned through heavy automatic weapons fire to evacuate the wounded company commander. Captain Jacobs made repeated trips across the fire-swept open rice paddies, evacuating wounded and their weapons. On three separate occasions, Captain Jacobs contacted and drove off Viet Cong squads who were searching for Allied wounded and weapons, single-handedly killing three and wounding several others. His gallant actions and extraordinary heroism saved the lives of one U.S. advisor and 13 Allied soldiers. Through his effort, the Allied company was restored to an effective fighting unit and prevented defeat of the friendly forces by a strong and determined enemy. Captain Jacobs, by his gallantry and bravery in action and the highest traditions of the military service, has reflected great credit upon himself, his unit, and the U.S. Army. That’s quite a day.
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s amazing. And you corrected me when I said it when I walked in. It was the recipient, not the winner.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. You do not win the Medal of Honor. That’s not a competition, as you can see, that he was going through here. Exactly. The date for that was March 9, 1968. And he said this. He said, freedom is purchased with the lives of those magnificent people who value American liberty above all. And as we’re reading this, Brad. I was thinking, I’ve said to Drew and to Brad, the co-founders of the center, that I think it would change Colorado if every year, every student in Colorado had to take one of these guys. their quotes and do a report on them get to know them and understand these sacrifices I think it could change our state and as we’re sitting here I’m thinking maybe we should start some kind of a summer camp or something along this but he said this freedom is purchased with the lives of those magnificent people who value American liberty above all don’t you love it
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It’s amazing. And to be in the military service is the highest calling. But it also is something that people do freely. They’re not forced to do it. We don’t have a draft. And I think it should remain that way unless something changes.
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They did back then, though.
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Yes, they did. But I think those people that went, went willingly for the most part. Maybe Vietnam was a little different. But I think for the most part, folks saw what was happening and said, hey – This is an opportunity to see the world, an opportunity to do things that challenges themselves. And they grew and they learned.
SPEAKER 09 :
However, and some did want to see the world, but when that first bullet came by, it was a whole different ballgame. Yeah, the game’s all, you know, all the training goes out the door. Everything changed, that’s for sure. Yep. So, Brad, we’re going to go to break. When we come back, I’m really excited to have an update from Holly Kaysen regarding her appeal and this appeal on stop NGO lawfare. Pretty exciting what’s happening there. But I wanted to say thank you to the Harris family for their gold sponsorship of the show. And then also, and we’re going to be in, I guess it’s going to be in next week, we’re going to do some recordings, is Roger Mangan with the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. He’s been in business for 48 years. Brad, you’re not in business for 48 years unless you’re taking pretty darn good care of the people that you serve. And so give them a call at 303-795-8855 for a complimentary appointment. If you bundle your insurance together, you might be able to save some money.
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SPEAKER 09 :
It is Friday. Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice, and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. My friend Brad Beck is in it. I’ll take bad Brad. That’s fine. Brad Beck is in studio with me, and on the line is Holly Kaysen. And we’re going to get an update with what’s going on in her life. Holly Kaysen, welcome to the show. Oh, good morning, Kim. Good to have you. And let’s set this up just a little bit. Why are you giving us an update if people have not heard your story yet? So give us kind of a quick synopsis of what has happened with you.
SPEAKER 06 :
OK, well, about three years ago, I was sued by the NAACP, the League of Women Voters and Me Familia Vota in a sham lawsuit. And they accused me of and my co-defendants of intimidating voters, being violent, racist, who were going door to door, threatening minority voters. Nothing could have been farther from the truth. What we were actually doing is canvassing the Colorado voters to merely check the Secretary of State’s voter data. And that’s basically the heart of the story. We ended up fighting this lawsuit, taking it to court and winning last July. And from there, the plaintiffs appealed, and we are still waiting for that answer from the 10th Circuit. And we’re very confident that the court is going to uphold our victory. But after that case was wrapped up, we ended up having to appeal for our, or excuse me, file a motion for our legal fees. And the lower court said no because of a 1978 legal standard called the Christianberg Standard, which automatically grants NGOs and individuals the automatic award of good faith in their lawsuits. And so we were unable to get our legal fees back from this case that we never planned on being in. We were the defendants in the case, and we won. And so that’s where we’re at. We’re appealing the judge’s ruling on our legal fees. But the heart of that case is about the Christiansburg standard.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and so in layman’s terms, my understanding is Christian Berg basically says even if an NGO sues and they lose, and so you have to lawyer up. You and your co-defendants had to lawyer up just to protect yourselves, which was significant legal fees in that. So you get sued. You have to lawyer up. And they lose, and they don’t have to pay your legal fees. And so this is one of the, I think, tools in the toolbox of NGOs that just go out and sue because there’s no risk to them. And so you and your co-defendants did not know this at the time when you were asking for your legal fees. And then you find out that there’s this Christiansburg decision. And so you are appealing that, correct? Yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s exactly right, Kim. It is a weapon in the lawfare toolbox because if the NGOs win, they win. I mean, if we would have lost, we would have had to pay damages and their legal fees. But if they lose, they win because they don’t have any financial downside. And so that Christiansburg standard was a law for a different era. I mean, it just doesn’t apply now because the balance of power is incredible. I mean, these NGOs have, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars. They have endless funds to sue anybody they want.
SPEAKER 09 :
And so this is a big deal. But you guys have spent a lot of money. I think you even took money out of your 401k for this whole thing. And so you had called and you said, Kim, we really want to appeal this. This seems like it’s a big deal. And I said, this does make sense. So we went to work. to help you raise the funds for this appeal. And I have to say, Holly, you and I are both so grateful because of what you and Ash and Sean have done. And my listeners, between all of us, we’ve raised the $60,000 that you needed for the appeal. And so this is moving forward. This is pretty exciting.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, I can’t thank people enough, especially you, Kim, and And, dear listeners, we were able to raise the $60,000 that this appeal is going to cost. And I think this may go all the way to the Supreme Court because this Christiansburg standard is a secret that these NGOs know and they use to their advantage. and to Americans’ disadvantage, to average people’s disadvantage. And we’ve got to change that. We can’t keep allowing these NGOs to just run roughshod over the Constitution and over our freedom and our ability to, you know, I guess check the government’s work, at least in our case.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, this is so the appeal is the attorneys are working on this now. And the bulk of the checks, I got those sent off and they received those. They were working on this. And so what’s next steps? What’s going to happen now?
SPEAKER 06 :
We are going our brief is due on May 27th, which is. you know, just a few weeks away. We’re already working on the brief and the court has been notified that we are appealing. The NGOs know that they are going to be challenged on this. And I’m really confident that we’re going to prevail on this appeal. I really feel that we’ve got what it takes to to overturn this Christiansburg standard.
SPEAKER 09 :
This is huge. Brad Beck, any questions?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, I do, Holly. Thanks for standing up for this type of right of the individual not to be sidetracked with this standard. I’ve never heard of it before. What could citizens do to find out more about it? Because I think it’s important with having that information. And anytime somebody does take an action, there’s all these legal things that are embedded in various laws. And I’ve never heard of this.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know, I just found out about it myself. I guess the first thing to do is, you know, you can Google some of these legal standards, but this principle applies only to civil rights cases. And so, you know, people can read up on it. It’s a 1978 Supreme Court case called Christiansburg. It’s much longer than that, and I cannot remember. the entire name of the case. I just call it Christiansburg standard, but it’s pretty easy to find. And yeah, I guess that’s part of why having legal representation is helpful because lawyers do know about this. And a lot of lawyers do understand that even if you fight these civil rights cases, you may not get your fees back, which disincentivizes defending yourself against these frivolous cases and kind of forces you into settling when you maybe shouldn’t settle. Maybe you should fight.
SPEAKER 09 :
So Holly, we have some other questions. We need to go to break. So let’s do that. And I have some other questions on this. So stay on. Brad Beck is in studio with me. All this happens because we have amazing sponsors. And one of those is Karen Levine. Talk to her about anything residential real estate.
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SPEAKER 19 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
It is Friday. Welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Check out our website. That’s Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice searching for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. Something’s a good idea. You should not have to force people to do it. And wanted to say thank you to the Harris family for their goal sponsorship of the show. And want to say thank you to all of you listeners. that contributed to help Holly Kaysen and her co-defendants for this appeal that very possibly may go all the way to the Supreme Court and start to take a little chink out of the armor of the stuff that these NGOs have been doing. So Holly Kaysen You and I talked a little bit about this judge. Initially, when you told me the judge that you had, and it can be kind of the luck of the draw on who you might get, when I describe her, everybody goes, oh, Biden appointed, activist judge, I think makes a point saying she’s an activist lesbian judge. And so, you know, looking at it, I’m thinking that the chances of you getting a ruling in your favor would be slim. But that was not the case. But there’s some interesting things going on.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. Well, our judge, her name is Charlotte Sweeney. She came from Boulder County and then was appointed to the 10th District. And she was the first openly… gay woman judge appointed in the 10th district, I believe, and you’re right, she was a Biden appointee. At first, we had Judge Brimmer, Chief Justice Brimmer on our case. And then once Sweeney was appointed, our case got shuffled over to her. And apparently that happens It was nothing out of the ordinary. We were a little bit surprised because Judge Brimmer was definitely ruling in our favor in some of those early motions. But fast forward to trial, we thought Judge Sweeney did a great job running our case. She was calling balls and strikes fairly, and she ran a really tight ship. Now, since she denied our… So you win the case, basically.
SPEAKER 09 :
And the other side actually, about the only real witness they had, they knew they weren’t telling the truth. But they went ahead, right? And she said, okay, that’s not okay, right? Again, this is more my armchair commentary. So what happened on that?
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s right. Well, during the case, the plaintiffs had no witnesses. They had no evidence. They had no factual support for their case. And we kept trying to alert the court that this was the situation. And, you know, our emotions would get turned down because of timeliness or, you know, technicalities here and there. And plaintiffs went all the way to trial with this completely flimsy case. But what happened is they had fabricated evidence saying that we had canvassed in Mesa County, which we hadn’t. Our group had never even operated out in Mesa County. And they submitted an affidavit that was falsified. And the witness that they brought in to back up these these false claims was an elderly woman who on the stand basically admitted yeah the lawyers told me to say this and yeah it was it was quite the moment but what was interesting is the judge’s ruling she kind of um watered watered down that moment because the entire case hinged on this woman’s testimony, and she said that it was caked. So it was an odd ruling, and I think maybe Charlotte Sweeney was, you know, trying not to come down too hard on an elderly gal who obviously had been cajoled and manipulated. But it made a big difference to us because, you know, we were – about a half a million dollars out of pocket on our legal fees. And we’re saying, hey, this is not fair. You know, we need to be reimbursed for our output. And, you know, Charlotte didn’t rule in our favor there. Now, it’s interesting because, you know, I thought Charlotte was, you know, right down the middle, calling balls and strikes judge. But Recently, she’s made national headlines for defying Trump’s executive order on deportations.
SPEAKER 09 :
So this this makes this whole thing even more intriguing, this appeal, because because she’s the judge in that she’s the judge over here. I don’t know how all this is going to be connected, but something it’s just really interesting, Holly.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, and she was also the judge that is ruling, and you helped me with the pronunciation on this the other day. Yeah, the school district is having a book banning case that’s being fought now, and Sweeney is the judge in that case as well. And so it seems like, you know, some of these judges are getting, you know, called on to activate. you know, to resist or to kind of fight back against the powers that they believe they don’t like. I don’t know. It’s an odd situation. But given the egregiousness of our case, it seems to me that, you know, Sweeney gave us the win on paper, but she wasn’t going to punish the… COMPLAINTIVE FOR BRINGING SUCH such a frivolous case and let them off the hook financially.
SPEAKER 09 :
So that is why this is so huge. And again, the good Lord gives us these nudges, Holly, and we just step forward. And so when you called and said, can you help us? I said, I just had this nudge said, absolutely. And then we went to our listeners and thank you to all of them. Brad, do you have any other questions? I see you. I can just see you’re thinking and perplexed about this whole thing.
SPEAKER 16 :
It just boggles my mind that it should have been thrown out just on the mere fact of what you said about the witness. And I’m just curious if there’s some entity out there on social media, Jay Seloff or one of these other legal groups that do little tidbits that can get the information out to people. Because it seems like it’s a way to prevent citizens from saying, hey, there was a wrong. I’m going to go to court. And I was pulled into court by no fault of my own, and yet, you know, there’s no recourse if you win.
SPEAKER 09 :
So that’s why this is so important, right, Holly?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, that’s exactly it. And, you know, your listeners are so generous, and your donors are, I mean, it’s incredible how much they’ve helped. It’s unbelievable, especially because there are these legal groups out in the world who you know, supposedly support cases like ours, you know, who could help financially or with, you know, legal services. But nobody would touch this case because it had to do with the election. And it was it really didn’t have anything to do with the elections. We were just looking at voter rolls. But it was so toxic at the time that we were just stuck. I mean, we were absolutely stuck in terms of how we were going to fight this case. And so to have people step up now and help is just so incredibly generous, and it means everything to us to fight. And not just for us, but for the rest of Americans, because at any point, this lot there could be turned on us. On anybody. On any of us. For no reason.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. Well, and you’d had some attorneys initially that had just suggested that you guys should settle. And you said, we’re not going to settle. You ended up thinking that you would just represent yourself. And then you got connected with this law firm. And they’ve got a really great record as well. So this is a… And the other thing, Holly, is we really need to ask for prayers for you and Sean and Ash as well on all of this.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, definitely prayers help. And we do have a really good law firm for this appeal. They work with us hand in glove, and I really trust them. They’re very smart guys. Yes. Yeah, we’re going to win this. We are definitely going to win this. And we know this is a big deal to the plaintiffs because when we gave notice that we were going to appeal, I think now there’s maybe 15 lawyers that have signed on to this appeal from their side. Yeah. This is huge. They’re really fighting this. This is a big deal. And one of the main guys… On the other side, his name is John Bonifaz. He runs this activist legal law firm called Free Speech for People out east, and he’s written books on lawfare. He’s been connected to the Obama administration, the Biden administration. I mean, this is pretty serious stuff. And the head of Mi Familia Vota, which is another one of the plaintiffs, He just announced he’s on the board of the Tides Foundation. Oh, nice. And I’m sure.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. George Soros. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. You’re taking on the big boys here, Holly. And we’re glad to be in the fight with you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
We’re glad to be in the fight. Your final thought, Holly.
SPEAKER 06 :
Thank you so much for everything, Kim, for your help. and for your audience’s support. And we feel the prayers, and we’re going to fight this. And we are going to take on the big boys, and we’re going to take them down.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, Holly Kaysen, love you. That is just awesome. So thank you so much. And Brad, exciting, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s amazing. And it’s amazing that they give the positive aspect of it, the good faith to the NGO, not to the citizen.
SPEAKER 09 :
I know. It’s pretty amazing. So Holly, thank you. And we are doing all of this because of all of you and your support and our sponsors. And so for everything mortgages, reach out to Lorne Levy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. If you’d like to explore what a reverse mortgage can do for you, call Lauren Levy at 303-880-8881. That’s 303-880-8881.
SPEAKER 19 :
Call now. You’d like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Monson Show, but you can’t remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim’s website, kimmonson.com. That’s Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 14 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
And welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That’s Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we’re into May. May 15th is the USMC Memorial Foundation’s second annual golf tournament. And it’s one of the first ones of the season. And I would really recommend that you partake in that if you’re a golfer. You’ll meet some great people, have a great round of golf. And Teresa Irby, our partnership liaison, and myself will be out there for lunch. So we’d love to meet you there as well. And so to get more information, and if you are not a golfer, like I’m not a golfer, but want to go out for lunch, you can just go ahead and purchase the lunch there. And all that’s at their website. That’s USMC Memorial Foundation. usmcmemorialfoundation.org. Brad Beck, it’s almost like it was a perfect segue from what Holly Kaysen is doing to your essay that we’re going to roll out this weekend.
SPEAKER 16 :
It really was. We were talking about that in the break, and she used the word unbelievable, and that’s the title of my essay. And I love that word simply because it’s, you know, you can think of whatever it is that it means. You know, it has a couple different meanings. And so I was at an event called at what was then called the Pepsi Center.
SPEAKER 09 :
We’re dating ourselves. I remember that.
SPEAKER 16 :
Or the can, as we called it. And they had a group of business people there, and it was called Motivate This. And one of the speakers there was a gentleman named Tom Hopkins, who’s an author and a sales trainer. And out of all the folks there, he said something, one word that just blew me away. And he said, whenever he travels and he gets on a plane and We’ve all experienced this. You know, the flight attendant is there and she says, how are you doing? Good morning. And everybody usually says, oh, I’m just fine or OK. And he walks in and he’ll say, unbelievable. And the flight attendant will say, well, that could be good or bad. And he’ll say, yeah, I’ll let you decide and walk away. And the fun thing about that interaction is it usually, like you just did, smile or make people laugh. But it gets them to think he’s different. He’s separated himself using one word from every other passenger. And he usually gets a little better service, gets a smile, gets treated a little more professionally. And I started thinking about the words we use. And I love using that all the time. When I call a customer, I’ll say, it’s unbelievable. And they’ll say, well, that could be good or bad. And I say, absolutely. I’ll let you decide. Again, it’s a way to start a conversation. And we have Google and Harvard did a study. They were scanning books. And they found that there’s over a million words in the English language. Now, most of them aren’t being used. A lot of them are archaic. They’re old English or they’re words that just aren’t around anymore that are used in a daily lexicon. And yet, you know, when you start thinking about it, you can distill it down to about 20,000 to 35,000 words we use. have in our vocabulary that most people use more or less. And I’m always repeating myself. And so I sit down every once in a while when I write an essay and I use a thesaurus. I have to put my tongue up to the front of my teeth. My wife taught me because I could never say it. And it works, by the way. And I’ll look for other words. And I find it’s fascinating how we use words and even our word of the day. How do people think about the words they use? And a lot of times we just… Say things that are in the colloquial, you know, I saw Representative Omar yesterday and she was using the F-bomb as she was talking to somebody walking by. It’s like, really? I mean, we’ve devolved to that level in our professional and our representative work. Representatives in Washington, D.C. are using that kind of foul language, really. I mean, I’m not a prude. I don’t care how people talk, except when you are representing people, when you are in the public eye. There’s a decorum. There is a decorum, and we’ve lost that.
SPEAKER 09 :
She might say that in private. Right.
SPEAKER 16 :
And we’ve lost our sense of civility, our sense of dignity. respecting the other individual. And so there’s many stories out there. The famous one I love is the one that Philip II, who was the father of Alexander the Great, used when he was warring with the Spartans. And on the Peloponnese, the part of Greece where the Spartans lived, Philip was going to attack it because it was the only place that the Macedonians hadn’t taken over. And he said, you know, I’m going to be coming there how am I going to be received, as friend or foe? And he said one word, neither. And then he repeated himself and he said, if I invade Laconia, I shall turn you out, to which he replied, if. I mean, simple words used effectively to make a point. And the Spartans were very concise in their language. And we use too often big words that we don’t know what they mean. And I find it fascinating. So using simple language to communicate an idea, to get people to think about the words that they’re using. And even in World Champions of Public Speaking, who we talk to and interact with through Toastmasters, I remember I was at an event and It was Mark Brown and Darren LaCroix were putting on an event for Toastmasters prior to the world champion of public speaking and the Toastmasters International Convention several years ago in Denver. So they had this event and you put your name in a hat and my name was picked. I was shocked. I had nothing prepared. And the deal was you were going to come up and do the introduction of your speech in And then they would give you criticism, which I thought, oh, that’s awesome. But my gosh, what if I get chosen? Well, I was the first one picked. And my mind went blank. And so all I could do was come up with this little song that I had written for a program called Growing Up With Flowers. And it’s a little flower song. I will save your listeners’ ears by not singing it. But it basically was a song I wrote. And it started every sentence, I, I, I. I have a little seed. I put it in the ground. I covered it with earth and I watered it around. It has arm and gestures and so forth. And Darren stopped me. First, he said, thank you for differentiating yourself. He was evaluating me. And he said, you know, you tried to sing and you did an okay job. And we all laughed about it. But his point that he wanted to bring up is why not use the word you rather than I? You have a little seed. You put it in the ground. You covered it with earth. You watered it around. The difference being I’m talking to an audience. And how do you want the audience to perceive you? Do you want them to think, oh, he’s always talking about you, me, you know, yourself personally? Or do you want to connect with them and say one of the most powerful words, you, or their first name? And that makes a difference in how people perceive you. And I thought, boy, that’s great criticism. You know, we always rebuff criticism, but… You know, concise criticism like that really makes you better.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, it does. And that’s why evaluations at Liberty Toastmasters is so important. Question for you then. As I’m writing different things, I write a lot of copy for our newsletter. I write all that copy for that. And I think I was writing the copy for the Second Syndicate and talking about our Second Amendment rights. And I had initially used the word, your rights are under attack. And then I thought I should make this more inclusive and put us all on the same side of the table. So I started to – I changed it to our rights are under attack. Do you think it’s better if I use our or your?
SPEAKER 16 :
I always find it more powerful with the word you or yours.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER 16 :
Now, that’s my personal because I believe that people understand when you talk about you – And you’re having a dialogue when you say, I did this and I happened to go through this experience. Yes, it gives credibility, but you really want to connect with the audience. It’s all about the audience. It’s not about you. Okay. At least in my purview.
SPEAKER 09 :
Then I’ll change what I was attempting to put us all on the same side of the table in my mind.
SPEAKER 16 :
I’m not a grammarian, but, you know, when I play one at Toastmasters, to me, it attracts the ear more and it connects with the audience.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, okay, that’s good to know. This is going to be a really important piece, unbelievable. We’ll roll it out this weekend. And I took from Liberty Toastmasters on this word of the day because I think that it makes us better if we can attempt to use those words in a sentence each day. I think that’s really important. And words are important. We’re in this battle of ideas, right? And America was founded on this idea. And, oh, you had used in one of your essays something, the group of big thinkers. Something of the agent.
SPEAKER 16 :
Oh, the host of worthies.
SPEAKER 09 :
The host of worthies. I loved that.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, I got that from, gosh, now I’m losing his name. But anyways, he was a well-known objectivist. And I heard him speak before. And he does a whole CD on the 4th of July that’s out of print. I’ve been looking for it for years. But anyway. He talked about the founders as a host of worthies, those individuals that at that time came together and created the most incredible idea for a country based on the rights of the individual. It never happened before. And even though they were different, different backgrounds, they created something that we are so fortunate to be the ones that get to carry it on. And we’re in one of those moments, as you often say, and I think we’re at an inflection point where we’re We need to be using better language. Gosh, I know I do.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and that is why I’ve added in the word of the day to the show. Guess what? We only have a minute left. How would you like to wrap this up?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, you know, as my wife always encourages me, sit down with a thesaurus. It’s not a dinosaur. It’s a book. And look at all the different words and where they come from. Be curious and stay active and just keep looking for ways that you can improve yourself. I think that’s the bottom line message. And join us at Liberty Toastmasters. Love to have you this Saturday at the Independence Institute at 10 to 12.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay. And our quote for the end of this show is from J.R.R. Tolkien. And he said this, and I look for courage quotes on Fridays because of the Medal of Honor. He says, Courage is found in unlikely places. So, my friends, today be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, God bless America, and stay tuned for hour number two.
SPEAKER 10 :
young like a new moon rising fierce through the rain and lightning wandering out into this great unknown I don’t want no one to cry but tell them if I don’t
SPEAKER 15 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 17 :
It’s the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
SPEAKER 09 :
An early childhood taxing district? What on earth is that?
SPEAKER 17 :
The latest in politics and world affairs.
SPEAKER 09 :
I don’t think that we should be passing legislation that is so complicated that people kind of throw up their hands and say, I can’t understand that.
SPEAKER 17 :
Today’s current opinions and ideas.
SPEAKER 09 :
And it’s not fair just because you’re a big business that you get a break on this and the little guy doesn’t.
SPEAKER 17 :
Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
SPEAKER 09 :
Indeed. Let’s have a conversation. And welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You’re each treasured. You’re valued. You have purpose. Today, strive for excellence. Take care of your heart. I can’t remember. Take your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. And thank you to the team I work with as Producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, Mike, Teresa, Amanda, all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Great first hour, Producer Luke. Yeah, a lot of very good stuff. A lot of great stuff. In studio with me is my good friend Brad Beck. He is a co-founder of Liberty Toastmasters. And Liberty Toastmasters, I’ve not been getting any attendance awards right now, but I’m going to change that because it really is so important for communication. Just communication. one-on-one with people, but if you’re going to go down to the Capitol to testify or in front of your school board or your town council, it makes us better people. We need to be working to improve ourselves, and Liberty Toastmasters should be in your repertoire.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, interesting story. Liberty Toastmasters North met a couple weeks ago. We met last weekend. And we had a gentleman who showed up and we said, where did you hear about us? And the guy said, well, I listen to the Kim Munson Show. Awesome. And, you know, we get that often. So it’s great to be on here and to promote Toastmasters. But more importantly, promote the skills of oral communication, oratory, and listening. That’s the big key. You come in for public speaking, but you really leave being a better listener.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and I think that people don’t realize it’s important, yes, to learn how to speak. But that evaluation component, being an evaluator, has served me so well when I was on city council and also in just dealing in life. It’s really a really great component of the meeting. Okay.
SPEAKER 16 :
One of the things that we teach people to evaluate is we use a thing called the sandwich technique. We offer something positive, something that a speaker does well, and then in the middle, some things that they can work on. And then at the end, again, praise. I like the reverse because I’ve been around a long time. So I like it when they dump on me first. Give me what I’m doing incorrectly that I can improve on. And then if there’s one or two things you like, great. But I need to hear from somebody else what I can be better at. And so I just did something wrong. I said at at the end of the sentence, my wife, who’s listening, will probably say you caught yourself. So that’s good.
SPEAKER 09 :
That makes us better. So when does Liberty Toastmasters meet?
SPEAKER 16 :
So this Saturday at 10 to 12 at the Independence Institute. You can look online on our website. And that’s on the first and third Saturday of the month. The second and fourth Saturday, we meet at Liberty North up in Longmont. Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
And people can find more information by going to Toastmasters International website and just put in Liberty Toastmasters. They can find that as well. In the spirit of Liberty Toastmasters, word of the day is temerity. It’s T-E-M-E-R-I-T-Y. It could be excessive boldness or rashness, foolhardiness or recklessness, or unreasonable contempt of danger. Rashness. And… I guess we need to have temerity as we’re engaging in this battle of ideas. How’s that?
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s good.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 16 :
I would even say that what Elon Musk is doing with Doge takes some temerity, and even more so President Trump for giving him the opportunity to do what they’ve been doing to find the fraud and corruption. There’s a lot of good people that work in the government. Yes, sir. And yet they just need the tools to do their job. And a lot of people will come to the Doge folks. I watched that interview on Jesse Waters last week. I’m going to find it. And it was brilliant because they said they were not looking to cause problems. We’re looking to find things that were expensing into these different government organizations and bureaus. And they’re finding so much corruption that people don’t even know what the funds are for. So the people that work there that want to do a good job are saying, have you guys looked into this or that? Or, you know, the software we’re using is archaic, if they even have software. So much of it is paper. And, you know, paper’s okay, but… Well, I do like paper, as you see. But, you know, the thing being that we’re in a… 2025, gosh, if you’re not using AI, you’re going to be missing the boat. And so it’s important to know and be aware of these things. It’s not to scare people. It’s to say, hey, do some research. If you find out about things, you might get better at what you do.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and have temerity as you’re doing that as well. So you’re challenged to use that in a sentence today. And then our quote of the day comes from the Medal of Honor quote book from the Center for American Values. I’d really recommend that you have this quote book. At your home, talk with your children, your grandchildren, about these different quotes, about these men, what they went through. And you can purchase that by going to AmericanValueCenter.org. That’s AmericanValueCenter.org. But this quote is from Jack H. Jacobs. Medal of Honor recipient, United States Army, born in 1945, actions that he took on March 9, 1968. He said this, he said, freedom is purchased with the lives of those magnificent people who value American liberty above all. And at the end of my America’s Veterans Story show, I close it with, we stand on the shoulders of giants. 250 years ago, 1775, things were hot right now. In fact, Paul Revere’s ride was just last week, Battle of Lexington, Battle of Concord. I think we are in our third founding of our country. But the real battle is not picking up arms. And our founders founded a country where we would settle our differences at the ballot box and not have to pick up arms. But they knew that the right to pick up arms was pretty darn important.
SPEAKER 16 :
Absolutely. And debate and dialogue and talking to your neighbors, your friends, your coworkers in a civil way listening and asking questions and then coming up and saying hey that’s interesting can you give me a source on that original source i’d like to share with you what i have as well and we can have a discussion about it that doesn’t happen enough we need to challenge ourselves to do it more
SPEAKER 09 :
So Brad Beck, they put in place, we have this vision of the Declaration, that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. And then ended up, they tried the Articles of Confederation, didn’t work, so 1787, deliberated. came up with the Constitution, again, a way that we can govern ourselves, that we can live together with each other. But they also realized, and this is one of the amazing things that I can’t even believe this regarding Madison, who’s known as James Madison as the father of the Constitution, is that many of the states, they needed to get the states to ratify the Constitution, and many of the states said, we want a Bill of Rights. And Hamilton felt that we didn’t need to have a Bill of Rights because if it wasn’t enumerated in the Constitution, then you couldn’t do it. But many wanted that Bill of Rights. And Madison said, you ratify, we’ll do it. And he did. I find that remarkable.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, they didn’t agree with everything with each other. They would talk to each other for hours and hours at the state house in Pennsylvania. And then they’d go to the pub. And, you know, when you go to the pub, you have a beverage. You get smarter, right? Your thoughts get a little more lucid. Yeah. But you have strong dialogue back and forth, and they’d come in the next day, and they’d start all over. And they realized that through their differences, they could find some compromise. That does not mean that you compromise your principles. It means that you compromise on things that you can agree on and say, okay, I’ll give a little here if you give a little there, but I’m not going to say, hey, you know what, I’m not going to give up what I really believe in. And one of the beautiful things about those founders is they listen to each other intensely. Yes. And they would recite, what you said here is this. Is that correct? And they would go back and forth and back and forth. They don’t do that under the gold dome. They don’t listen. They’re too busy listening or looking at their devices. We saw that recently with several representatives. They’re not listening to the other side to make a better argument.
SPEAKER 1 :
Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, but they did listen to each other. Madison listened. He said, okay, we’re going to do the Bill of Rights. We’re talking about engaging in this battle of ideas. But they knew that you needed to – the first thing a tyrant does is they disarm the people. And that’s why the Second Amendment is so important. And that’s why I am so pleased to have the Second Syndicate as a new sponsor of the show. And we have – Teddy Collins on the line with us and Alicia Garcia with the Second Syndicate. Teddy, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 04 :
Good morning.
SPEAKER 09 :
You kind of like this Bill of Rights talk, right?
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yeah, of course. Most important part of the Constitution.
SPEAKER 09 :
Definitely. And Alicia Garcia, welcome. Good morning. And just wanted to quickly, well, I had it, I thought at my fingertips. We were talking about the piece that we published regarding Senate Bill 003. And as of yesterday, there were 7,200 likes on that, Alicia, which means there were a whole bunch of eyeballs that are looking at that piece. It’s wonderful. I really appreciate that. And so let’s talk a little bit about this, that Senate Bill 003 is an egregious attack upon our Second Amendment rights, our right to keep and bear firearms, to protect ourselves and our families against bad actors. And, Alicia, many people are asking, is there going to be a legal challenge? And so what’s your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I’m absolutely sure that there will be. We have actually procured a plaintiff for this case quite a while ago when we knew that this was being heard in public committee. And the way that that works is that we can’t test or we can’t challenge it until it actually becomes an enforceable law. So we can’t do anything about it until August 1st of 2026 when it becomes actual law in the state of Colorado. Then once we have standing in court, we can file paperwork and sue against this. But until that date, what we’re really focusing on right now is reaching out to Pam Bondi, focusing on who we’re going to get as an attorney general, and just making sure that we have other methods as well to attack this and flank this from other sides and other perspectives as well, because it’s such a ridiculous piece of legislation.
SPEAKER 09 :
So, Teddy Collins, should people be probably securing firearms and ammunition at this time just to have? Because with Senate Bill 003, when it goes into effect, there’s going to be the legal challenges. But now is probably a time to do some shopping, yes?
SPEAKER 04 :
A hundred percent. And also, we have to keep in mind that even when a legal challenge is filed come August 2026, It’s going to take time. So the Supreme Court has not really taken up very many cases that have had temporary injunctions. So a lot of the tactics that we’re seeing 2A organizations use right now is not seeking that temporary injunction anymore and just trying to get this through to the Supreme Court as quick as possible, especially here in Colorado, since we have not the most friendly practices federal court districts that we are dealing with here in the state of Colorado. We unfortunately will need to get it up to the Supreme Court as quick as possible to try to get some relief.
SPEAKER 09 :
OK, so the second syndicate, you founded that, Alicia and Teddy, to bring people that value our Second Amendment together. There’s there’s seems like we have a lot of infighting on all kinds of things here in Colorado, Alicia, and you’re doing a really good job of bringing people together. And so how can people can we join the second syndicate or what should we do?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, that’s a wonderful question. Thank you for asking that, Kim. What people can do, first of all, is make it more of a priority in their life. They can head to our website, thesecondsyndicate.com, the2ndsyndicate.com. They can buy merch. They can go to our links. Any social media platform that you have of ours at The Second Syndicate on every single platform, We have a link tree in all of our bios that has links to our merch. They have links to sign up for our information. They have links to our gifts and go where you can donate money to our cause. We are a 501c4, so we do take donations, and we are a nonprofit that can focus on preserving the Second Amendment. So what anyone can do to partake…
SPEAKER 09 :
and preserve and donate we appreciate okay and teddy do you guys have a newsletter that you’re going to be getting out to people or from the second syndicate or or how you know if you sign up is there anything to sign up for or or what uh what does that look like
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, so memberships are coming very soon. That’s something that’s actually in the work right now. Newsletters and all that good stuff we will be doing on at least a biweekly basis coming up here very shortly. Also, we are going to be scheduling some legislative briefs where people can actually come and attend and hear speakers and listen to what’s going on in the legislature. I mean, our legislative session is over now, but we are getting prepared for 2026. Because, you know, we have another election coming up in 2026, but unfortunately we need to get through another round of this left-wing legislator first next year.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay. What is that website, Alicia Garcia, for people to get more information and sign up and support you? They can go to the second syndicate, the 2ndsyndicate.com. Okay. Well, Teddy Collins with Spartan Defense and Alicia Garcia, greatly appreciate you and the Second Syndicate being a new sponsor of the show.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. Thank you for letting us do so.
SPEAKER 09 :
Absolutely. I get to work with amazing people, Brad Beck. I’m just blessed. And another great sponsor is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. Give them a call for a complimentary appointment and sit down and go over your insurance coverage.
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SPEAKER 03 :
We’ll be right back. Knowledge is power and preparation leads to success. Call Lauren Levy at 303-880-8881 so that you are prepared for the opportunities in the mortgage market. That’s Lauren Levy at 303-880-8881.
SPEAKER 19 :
You’d like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Monson Show, but you can’t remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim’s website, kimmonson.com. That’s Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 09 :
It is Friday. Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice on an independent station searching for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And I do want to say thank you to the Harris family for their gold sponsorship of the show. Brad Beck is in studio with me. It’s great to have you here.
SPEAKER 16 :
Always a great time.
SPEAKER 09 :
And I can’t wait for our next guest.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
Mark Schneider is a historian. He’s an actor at Colonial Williamsburg. And he portrays both Lafayette. And we had a great interview about Lafayette that I think it was one of our special interviews. Maybe we did that the week of Thanksgiving. But Colonel Rutledge from northern Colorado, he’s 96 years young. And he’s on there. I think that he’s a member of Colonial Williamsburg or supports them. And he said, Kim, the Louisiana Purchase. It was right around this time, some say May 2nd, some say April 30th in 1803. And he said, the guy that does Lafayette also portrays Napoleon, and you should try to get him on again. So here he is, Mark Schneider. It is great to have you on the show.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s great to be here. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, absolutely. So when I reached out to you, I thought it was May 2nd that was the Louisiana purchase, but some say it was April 30th. But I guess they didn’t have iPhones back then, right?
SPEAKER 08 :
Correct. And of course, the signing of the Louisiana purchase, when it was actually done in Paris with Napoleon and the American representatives, Robert Livingston and James Monroe, and the French finance minister, Barbe Maboua, and Maurice de Talleyrand, of course, it’s going to take a minimum of six, eight, ten weeks for it to go back to the United States for it to be then interred, given to the president, Jefferson, and then put before Congress. So whether it’s the 2nd of May, 1803, or the 30th of April, 1803, I don’t think that’s really such a big deal.
SPEAKER 09 :
But it was right around this time. And we were such a young country, if you really think about it, 1803. Jefferson was president, right? I’m trying to go back to my grade school days to remember details about the Louisiana Purchase. So What should people know?
SPEAKER 08 :
So the Louisiana Purchase is such a significant moment in the history of the United States of America. And it was really through opportunity. It was through great… delegates that were, or rather representatives that were sent by Jefferson to Paris that could think on their feet, because as you just said, there were no iPhones for them to call the president or call members of Congress to find out if they should go ahead with this. They really had to make that decision. And the entirety of the Louisiana Purchase, we have to look at the Louisiana territory. Of course, France, is going to colonize the Louisiana Territory and what will become the Louisiana Purchase in the latter part of the 17th century with the establishment of New Orleans in 17 and 18. It’s really a significant city because all shipping that’s going to go up and down the Mississippi River has to pass through New Orleans. So if you have control of New Orleans, you have control of the shipping. So in the 18th century, the French and the English had a series of wars, and one that was really catastrophic for the French was the Seven Years’ War. We often refer to it as the French and Indian War here in the United States. In 1762, in the Treaty of Fontainebleau, the French ceded or gave New Orleans and the Louisiana Territory to the Spanish. Now, the Spanish had a Bourbon or a Bourbon family member on the throne. So the idea of Louis XV was give it to a family member in case we need to negotiate it. to get it back again. Well, the Spanish would then hold on to New Orleans and the Louisiana territory until 1800. In 1800, there was a man in France who had just came to power with a coup d’état in November of 1799. His name, of course, was General Napoleon Bonaparte. And he became what they called in the French Republic the first consul. That was the name for the chief executive. By August of 1802, he becomes consul for life, so that means he’s going to rule as the chief executive for life. But in 1800, with Spain, he organizes what they call the Secret Treaty of San Ildefonso. And in this secret treaty, the French will reacquire New Orleans and the Louisiana Territory for what purpose? Napoleon had visions of establishing a Western empire with New Orleans as its seat of power. The sugar islands of Martinique, Guadeloupe, Saint-Domingue, and others were so lucrative. For example, an island as small as Martinique was worth more financially to France than all of Canada combined. simply by its production of sugar and coffee and spices and all of those things that people couldn’t do without. So he acquires that with Spain and Spain would in turn be given a small piece of Italy in the Tuscany region. So the thing for Napoleon was that he could not begin this Western Empire without creating peace with England, their chief enemy. And France and England, as I mentioned, throughout the entirety of the 18th century were almost perpetually at war. Well, he negotiates a treaty with them. It’s called the Treaty of Amiens. And it was signed in 1802. And this is the first time you’re going to see peace between England and France from 1792 all the way till 1815. And this treaty lasts less than one year. But during that time, Napoleon is very diligent, and he decides to establish this. The big challenge for the French Republic at that time is that if they’re going to make money off these sugar islands, they need to put order out of the disorder and chaos that occurred there. Because in 1794, the French Republic actually abolished slavery. And so there were lots of revolts on the island, especially that of Saint-Domingue. And Saint-Domingue today, of course, we call Haiti. And as a result of that, there was a man who rose to power. His name was Toussaint Louverture. And he was really in control of the island at that time. So obviously, the production of sugar and everything else they wanted, they could not get their hands on unless they somehow negotiated or worked or fought against Toussaint of Iter. So Napoleon, in through one of his great regrets of his rule, decides to reestablish slavery on the island of Saint-Domingue and in Martinique and in Guadeloupe. Obviously, this is not going well with the inhabitants of the island. You think? Yes, you think, exactly. So he dispatches an army of about 30,000 men commanded by his brother-in-law, a man by the name of General Leclerc, And they’re going to try and restore some sort of order there. They go. There’s battles that are fought. But the climate is horrible for the French soldiers who are northern Europeans. And upwards of three quarters of the expeditionary force died, to include his brother-in-law, General Leclerc. Now, the Treaty of Amiens was falling apart, and Napoleon had possession of New Orleans, and he didn’t know what to do with it, because he knew when war resumed that the English could simply sail into that city and gain control of the entire area, and then they would gain a lot of wealth and power and problems. So he began negotiating with the Americans. he felt it was much better for the Americans to get it than for the English. So as I mentioned, Robert Livingston, James Monroe were dispatched to France to negotiate with the first consul. And at first, Napoleon was going to sell it for about $21 million, which is still a great deal, but the Americans had about $9 million in the treasury, so they felt that that was just too much. Now, Napoleon was not only going to sell New Orleans, but he was going to sell the entirety of the Louisiana Territory, of which the Americans were not expecting. But thinking on their feet, Robert Livingston said, yes, we will take the entirety of it. But they somehow haggled and worked the price down to $15 million. And it was, in fact, agreed before they informed Congress, before they informed the president. But once again, they really needed that iPhone at that time. Now, again, they had $9 million in the Treasury. So how was the remainder of that money? some going to be paid. Well, there was an English bank that the Americans were working with, and they were going to make up the difference. So when France and England went back to war in 1804, the French money that was funding cannons and muskets and powder was coming from an English bank to be used against them.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s crazy.
SPEAKER 08 :
One of the great ironies of history. Yes, indeed.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay. Hey, Mark, let’s go to break. We’re talking with Mark Schneider from Colonial Williamsburg. And he’s, as you can tell, a great historian. And he portrays Colonial Williamsburg Lafayette. And so we’re going to go to break. Brad Beck is in studio with me. We get to have these discussions because of our sponsors. And if you’ve been injured, reach out to John Bozen at Bozen Law.
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SPEAKER 12 :
All of Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That’s kimmunson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 09 :
And welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Check out our website. That’s kimmunson.com. On the line with us is Mark Schneider with Colonial Williamsburg. And we’re talking about the Louisiana Purchase. In studio with me is Brad Beck, co-founder of Liberty Toastmasters. And Brad, you’ve got a question for Mark.
SPEAKER 16 :
I do, Mark. You’re fascinating, your history and your knowledge. I’m just curious. I’ve always heard the controversy, and I’d like you to address it, on whether or not Jefferson had the constitutional authority to really do this purchase. I’ve heard both sides, and I want to know what your thoughts are.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, great question. I think from a 21st century perspective, we would say what transpired, absolutely, he didn’t have the right to do it because such a land acquisition and such an incredible amount of money, even though $15 million does not sound like a lot, the Americans simply did not have that money in their treasury. Not that we don’t spend outside what we have now. But regardless, many could say that it was out of bounds for him to do that. He needed to present that before Congress, and Congress needed to agree that this was being done, and then the agreement would be made. The problem for the representatives, the outstanding representatives of Livingston and Monroe, is that they needed to make a decision immediately, states to more than double in size, the control of New Orleans. So they had to make that decision. And I think in a very early 19th century way, it was in their right to make such a decision, knowing that the passage of time of several months would have transpired before the answer could have been given to First Consul Bonaparte. and he might not have been willing to wait. And also, we know in hindsight, of course, France and England would be at war once again, and who knows if England would have sailed into New Orleans to try to take it back. All these what-ifs of history, but certainly from a 21st century perspective, if a president of the United States tried to make such an acquisition before notifying Congress, I think there would be problems with that.
SPEAKER 09 :
Probably. So this is interesting that we didn’t have all the money, so we borrow from an English bank. Correct. And so Napoleon gets that money, and then he is using that in a war against England. Correct. Wow. Of course. So when they’re doing the negotiations, Mark, is Napoleon and Monroe and Livingston at the same table, or what did that look like?
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes. So, of course, Napoleon coming to power needs to consolidate his power. He only just takes power in November of 1799. And the first form of their republic with the consulate, there are three consuls. But Napoleon is the one to reign or rule or to be the first consul first. and the others never get an opportunity because Napoleon is actually quite successful. He consolidates that power, and then he makes a great many reforms. He reforms the law code. He creates the Bank of France. He returns religion back to France, which had been abolished in 1794. It creates roads and universities and monuments to friends. So he’s consolidated his power. And there are many things upon his plate when this transpires. Once he gets news of the failure in Saint-Domingue and the death of his brother-in-law, and he knows he needs to get rid of New Orleans, that’s when really these negotiations begin. We must remember with Monroe, of course, Monroe is a very, very skilled diplomat. His family, actually, Elizabeth Monroe and their children are friends with Napoleon’s family. Josephine’s daughter, Hortense, and her son, Eugène, they all travel in the same circles. So that was probably really an excellent negotiating tool. And it’s not the first time that Napoleon would have met Monroe before, and Livingston as well. And people like Talleyrand and Barbé-Marbois also had been to America before. So really, the best people were in the best place at that time. So, yes, they were negotiating at tables with Napoleon. And Napoleon was very, very decisive in making these decisions of state. So once, you know, the decision was to get rid of it, he was going to do whatever it took to get rid of it. And, you know, with this signature, as I paraphrase, I make the United States of America the next world power. And he really did. And, of course, England would never gain control of New Orleans, though she would try in January of 1815 during the War of 1812. But it would be for naught because of the success of General Andrew Jackson.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. Okay, Brad, you had a question?
SPEAKER 16 :
I did. Mark, I’m just curious because we’re benefactors here in Colorado. We were part of the Louisiana purchase. A lot of people don’t know that. But the Louisiana purchase went all the way up into Canada. Alberta and Saskatchewan were part of this purchase. So when President Trump says the 51st state, it’s already happened.
SPEAKER 09 :
I didn’t really. Yeah, tell us the area. I don’t know the area, Mark.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s massive. You’re right. It goes all the way up into Canada. It stretches across so many states. And this land acquisition is, of course, going to need to be discovered. And that’s why Jefferson is going to dispatch the Lewis and Clark expedition to find out what is out there. Because We also need to remember the indigenous peoples that were living there, the landscape, the varied landscape, the raw materials, the natural resources that were available to the United States, the other settlers that were on those states that would become states, I should say, rather. So it is such a massive area that’s going to need a lot of work, and it won’t just end with Jefferson after this Lewis and Clark expedition. It’s going to take a lot of administrations to work out how this land will be broken up into states, if it will be broken up into states, what it can be used for, how the United States government is going to work with these indigenous tribes that are going to be found there. So there’s a lot of questions. And also, of course, the English all the way in the north and the Spanish further to the west, you’re going to have conflicts or disagreements with them as a result of that. So it’s really a daunting task to acquire such a massive landholding for the United States. But in hindsight, as we look upon it, I think as the United States was growing, It was such a great opportunity for Jefferson’s administration to be able to acquire such a thing. And when you look at, of course, the presidency of Washington, which is a great success because Washington is the founding father. And Adams, of course, how do you follow Washington, does not have such a great presidency. But Jefferson does. He rebounds with the Louisiana Purchase, with the fighting of the Tripoli Pirates. With the building of the United States Navy, the establishing of the academy at West Point, so many positive things came as a result of that presidency. But the task of finding out what to do with that Louisiana territory, I think, was quite a difficult one.
SPEAKER 09 :
What a time it was at that time. So kind of a side note, I’m just fascinated by this conversation, Mark, and I just would love to just go read history, history, history. But one of my favorite movies is The Count of Monte Cristo. And Napoleon is depicted in that movie that he’s been banished to an island. So tell us more about Napoleon.
SPEAKER 08 :
So Napoleon really is one of those great people of history. Whether you like him or you don’t like him, he left his mark upon history that’s still evident today. And Napoleon was a product of his revolution. You know, some say that had the French Revolution not come, that he would be an underpaid captain living in Marseille. I don’t know about that. But certainly as a result of the French Revolution, a promotion by merit, he was able to rise up in rank. but very, very quickly from captain to general in 1794 and then become master of France in 1799. What you see in that book, The Count of Monte Cristo, is that Napoleon, after he becomes first consul, he’s actually made emperor of the French. in May of 1804, and he’s crowned in Notre Dame de Paris on the 2nd of December, 1804. So he’s an emperor. He’s exchanged the Bourbon family and the kings for the emperors of France and the Bonapartes. And he will rule until April of 1814. And then he’s forced to abdicate, and he is sent into exile on the small island of Elba, just off the west coast of northern Italy. And that is where… You’re going to meet him in the Count of Monte Cristo, and he gives a letter, and that’s how he gets into a bit of trouble. But Napoleon will escape from the island of Elba and go back to France in February of 1815, and will begin what we call the Hundred Days in the history of Napoleon that will end today. on June 18, 1815, in Belgium at the battlefield at Waterloo. Napoleon is then exiled for a second time, but this time to the island of St. Helena, which is equidistant between South America and Africa. It is a tiny little island that sticks out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, very inhospitable, and that is where he will expire on May the 5th of 1821. So the anniversary of his death is coming up in just a few days. Yeah, so really a meteoric rise. You know, with the seven coalitions that were pitted against Napoleon from 1792 to 1815, even before he came to power, You know, there’s a series of wars that are fought, and as I mentioned with the Treaty of Amiens, it’s really the only time of peace between France and England, but he’s also at war with Russia, with Prussia, with the Austrians. There’s a war in Spain, in Portugal, so lots of conflict is taking place during the Napoleonic Wars. But he’s also, at the same time, spreading the ideals of the French Revolution of liberty, equality, fraternity, or brotherhood. And it will really be the chief cause for the unification of Germany that won’t come until 1870 by abolishing the Holy Roman Empire in 1806, really the unification of Italy, which won’t come until the 1870s as well. So he’s spreading a lot of these ideas that will change the old feudal system of Europe forever. into more of representative government, which still exists today. And his law code, of course, is still in use today. Ironically, it is still used in Louisiana, the Napoleonic Code or the Code Napoleon. A lot of his ideas and changes within France, whether it be the Bank of France, the creation of the Légion d’honneur, which is an award of merit not only given to military men, but also to great artists or scientists or playwrights or painters. And it’s not limited to just Frenchmen, but to anybody who’s done something great in the service of France. So there are a lot of far-reaching effects for the time period of Napoleon Bonaparte. And, you know, there’s more books written about Napoleon, it is said, than any one person save Christ or Mohammed.
SPEAKER 09 :
Interesting. So we’re just about out of time. Let’s talk just a little bit of, well, do you have any questions, Brad?
SPEAKER 16 :
I was just curious how you stay in character when you’re in Colonial Williamsburg with today’s audiences having, you know, the iPhone mentality, that quick attention span. How do you keep them enthralled?
SPEAKER 08 :
Absolutely. That’s such a great question. And I think the key to keeping them involved is, you know, all of these stories of history are human stories. We have all as human beings experienced happiness, sadness, trials, tribulations. And I think by telling that human story and being really confident in your information, people become very, very interested. They want to know a little bit more. For you to read about the Declaration of Independence in some textbook, it might not be very interesting. It might not draw your attention. But if you can meet Thomas Jefferson and ask him why he wrote the Declaration of Independence, I think it becomes much more interesting. And by immersing yourself in that time period, for example, when I portray the Marquis de Lafayette, if I come up on a horse, I have a very accurate uniform on, my information is directed to the point. I’m so thankful for my college professor, Theodoric Bostic, because she taught me how to write praises, which is a one-page description of a massive subject. And I didn’t like doing them at the time, but it’s become so helpful for me as a performer by getting directly to the point. What is pertinent? What is most important for a person to walk away with on that particular subject? And I’m forever thankful for her.
SPEAKER 09 :
And so Mark Schneider, it’s been many years since I was at Colonial Williamsburg. I’d like to go get on a plane right now and get there. But what can people expect? This is really something families should probably put on their list of places to go with their kids. So if you go to Colonial Williamsburg, what are you going to find?
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, you’re going to find history coming to life. I’m a firm believer that all of the answers to the future are found in the past if we study our history. And Colonial Williamsburg does that the best in the world. I’m not bragging. I’m just telling you the truth. We have such a great team of staff of tradesmen that bring those 18th century trades to life, to the buildings, 89 original buildings to the 18th century buildings. that have been restored. So you can walk back in time and meet Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, enslaved individuals, women who worked with trades and ran businesses. You can meet a wide scope of people of the 18th century to include the Marquis de Lafayette and find out why they’re significant, why they’re important. What part did they play in the development of this great nation of the United States of America? I think it’s such an important place because we call this the historic triangle. The establishment of the first lasting English colony at Jamestown in 1607 is nine miles from Williamsburg. The victory at Yorktown took place 13 miles from Williamsburg. So all of these historic, important places that formed the United States of America are right here in Williamsburg. FDR said of the Duke of Gloucester, the main street in Williamsburg, it’s the most historic street in America. So we welcome you all. Come. You can find us online with Colonial Williamsburg or www.history.org. We would love to see you and share the history of this great nation.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m going to be there soon, Mark Schneider. Thank you so much. My pleasure. And thank you so much for having me. Oh, my gosh. So interesting, Brad. It’s amazing.
SPEAKER 16 :
I was there when I was a kid, and I was just enthralled.
SPEAKER 09 :
We’ve got to go back. That’s for sure, all of us.
SPEAKER 16 :
We’ll be waiting for you.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, okay. Thanks, Mark Schneider. And these discussions, so inspirational. They happen because of our sponsors, and one of those is John Bozen and Bozen Law.
SPEAKER 07 :
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marketing is essential for your success especially during tough economic times if you love the Kim Munson show strive for excellence and understand the importance of engaging in the battle of ideas that is raging in America then talk with Kim about partnership sponsorship opportunities email Kim at Kim Munson com Kim focuses on creating relationships with individuals and businesses that are tops in their fields. So they are the trusted experts listeners turn to when looking for products or services. Kim personally endorses each of her sponsors. Again, reach out to Kim at KimMunson.com.
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SPEAKER 09 :
It is Friday. Welcome back to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you for joining us. Check out the website. That’s kimmunson.com. The show comes to you because of our sponsors. And a great place to see the Game 7 of the Avalanche and the Stars is Hooters Restaurants. They have five locations, Loveland, Aurora, Lone Tree, Westminster, and Colorado Springs. And when I went to bed, the stars were ahead. I thought, ah, but the series has evened up, Brad Beck.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, that’s what happens when you go to Hooters. You have a beer and you have a good juju.
SPEAKER 09 :
There you go. And they’re known for their wings and great specials for lunch and a happy hour. And also on May 18th, no, May 15th, excuse me, will be the USMC Memorial Foundation Golf Tournament. Teresa Irby, who is handling our partnership liaison component of our team, and I will be out there for lunch. So if you’re not a golfer but you’d like to come out, and we’d love to see you, you can just come out for lunch as well. And Brad Beck, we’ve talked about so many different things. We’ve talked about history. I look at Holly Kaysen, and I think she’s a modern-day patriot. It’s been just quite a show.
SPEAKER 16 :
It has. And, you know, when you tie it all together, people like Jack Jacobs, who is the Medal of Honor recipient and part of history, and then you hear Mark Schneider, who reenacts history, and Holly, who’s making history. History is so fascinating and it’s so important. And, you know, when you’re in school, a lot of kids today, they’re just told, wrote things. Well, there’s a great book out that I’ve read called Land of Hope. It’s a great primer written by Wilford McKay, who is an instructor at Hillsdale College. If you have a school that you have any influence in, that’d be a great book to bring because he brings history to life. And history is so fascinating. And if we learn, as Mark said, from our past, we’re more likely not to make the same mistakes over and over again. And one of the mistakes we have down here in the Capitol is we have people who don’t understand their roles. It’s not to help people. It’s not to give citizen things. It’s to protect their equal individual natural rights and leave people alone. 700 new laws that the legislature has made. is unconscionable. And citizens should be up in arms. And yet we’re so busy living our lives. You know, we need to really have the intrepidity to get involved.
SPEAKER 09 :
We do. And you and I were at a meeting recently where an elected representative And my friends, let’s not be calling them officials because it’s almost like we give them some power when we call them officials. They’re elected representatives and who said that his role was to enforce the laws. And you and I both looked at each other and said, oh, that’s not what the representative of the people are supposed to do. That’s the police’s job to enforce the law.
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s the representative’s job. opportunity to protect the rights that we all have that are inherent and they’re unalienable and those are the things to pursue our happiness but people have to understand what happiness is it’s self-mastery so if people are doing the things that they need to do to pursue that They have to be in control of their own lives, their own faculties, not do stupid stuff. That’s why the police get involved. That’s why the courts get involved, to adjudicate the differences. But people have to understand it’s their government. And at all levels, they should be informed, engaged, and ask questions. Why are we doing things that way? Why is that important? Could we try something a little different? Is there some opportunity that we can come together on and move the ball forward rather than having edicts from high with more laws?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and all the laws or city ordinances, everything really should have to pass the mustard of the Constitution. And this idea that we’re all treated equally under the law and there’s a proper role of government. And that’s what you and I are really focused on. We’re in. We’re in the third founding of our country. We’re in this battle of ideas. And more and more people are waking up. I do believe Colorado is at the tip of the spear on this. So what you’re doing with these pieces that you’re writing and all that you do, you’ve helped so many people find their voices and just all of the different things that you do. It’s an honor to be in this battle of ideas with you, Brad Beck.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, same here, Kim. When you have the voice here, the gills all over the place. front range of Colorado and Wyoming and people hear your opportunity to see and hear more things that are going on around them that they’re not aware of. And it’s the awareness that we have to bring to people. But more importantly, they got to get involved at some point, learn to be a better speaker and communicator, learn to be a better listener. Learn to be an inquisitive citizen. Go down to the Capitol like so many of our fellow citizens did and give their testimony to those folks who are on the opposition. Maybe something will click.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, absolutely. And so we’re out of time. And our quote for the end of the show is from J.R.R. Tolkien. He said this, courage is found in unlikely places. And you saw a lot of courage down at the Capitol the other day. Absolutely. So, my friends, today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 10 :
Young like a new moon rising fierce through the rain and lightning wandering out into this great unknown. And I don’t want no one to cry, but tell them if I don’t survive.
SPEAKER 15 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
