HR1 Dr. Kelly Victory, Steve House: Healthcare CEO asks RFK’s Advisor To Resign 5-14-25 by John Rush
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This is Rush to Reason.
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It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush, presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 12 :
And it’s that time. Welcome, Thursday edition, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. We do have both Dr. Kelly Victory and Steve House with us. I always start with Dr. Kelly. Dr. Kelly, welcome.
SPEAKER 15 :
Hey, thanks for having me as always, John, and happy Thursday.
SPEAKER 12 :
Happy Thursday to you, too. I appreciate you guys very much. Steve House joining us as well. Steve, welcome.
SPEAKER 03 :
Glad to be here. By the way, Kelly, are you still using your name, or did you go to an alias? Good one.
SPEAKER 14 :
I mean, you might be dangerous.
SPEAKER 15 :
I have having Kevlar fitted under my business suit.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, and you guys are leading right into it. I even promoted today’s program, this particular hour. And for those of you that are listening in for the first time maybe ever, Dr. Kelly Victory has been with us for a long time. Steve, welcome. House put that together with myself over five years ago. It’s been quite some time. So we’ve been doing this for a long time, all the way through COVID. And even until now, we’re going to talk about some things going on inside of the administration today. If you guys want to know more about Dr. Kelly, just go to RushToReason.com. There’s an entire website. page dedicated there. And really quick before we get going today, Dr. Kelly, there was a gentleman leaving the studio today that was on with another one of our programs that was on right before mine today. And as he was leaving, he said, you know, he said, I have to thank you guys. So I know Dr. Kelly’s coming on here in just a minute. He said, I worked in some areas where they were demanding I get the shot, and I was so close to getting it. He pushed his fingers out, and it’s like, you know, just a hair’s away from actually getting the shot. And he said, I’m so glad that I was listening to you guys at that time. I didn’t. I feel like it made a huge difference in my life. I feel like I’m much healthier today than I would have been otherwise, and who knows if I’d even be here today because he has some other things going on in his world along those lines where he’s not sure how that would have all worked. you know, panned out. So Dr. Kelly and Steve, both, that was a big thank you from somebody just a few minutes ago.
SPEAKER 15 :
Well, it’s always great for me to hear, John. You know, it pains me that so few people, unfortunately, were able for whatever reason to avoid the shots, whether it was because they fell prey to the fear, whether they were forced or coerced or mandated to get them for whatever reason. it’s a real tragedy that so much of our population, as much as 80%, actually took these things. So it’s always nice to hear that somebody dodged a bullet.
SPEAKER 12 :
It is. No, it’s a joy to hear that. I mean, that means a lot to me. I know it does for you two guys as well because the reality is it’s why we’re here. It’s why we did what we did. And when I hear that, I just think, okay, at least we made some difference through all of this. I wish we could have made a lot more difference, but I feel like we did make – Okay, let’s get into some things going on with the wellness company, which before we get going, Dr. Kelly, let’s give your affiliation with the wellness company.
SPEAKER 15 :
I am a member of the chief medical board of the wellness company. Specifically, I’m the chief of emergency and disaster medicine. So I not only participate on a very regular basis in calls, with regards to everything from product development to, you know, marketing issues for the company, but also do a lot of what’s pure education, really public health. We have a mandate at the wellness company. We were born out of the disaster that was COVID and the fact that there was so much censorship and suppression of free speech and All of us on the Chief Medical Board, which includes not only myself, but Dr. Peter McCullough, Harvey Reich, Jim Thorpe, Dr. Alejandro Diaz, and Dr. Drew Pinsky, we are all committed to speaking openly and honestly with patients and really hoping to reestablish some trust and confidence.
SPEAKER 12 :
Awesome. OK, I appreciate you saying that. And as we continue on, Steve, and maybe I don’t know who wants to introduce the how should I say this, the villain in our conversation we’re going to have right now. Callie, me and Steve, do you want to talk about who that person is?
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, obviously, I think Kelly has a better sense of it. I mean, it’s Callie. Callie Means obviously is a part of the villain here, but I think there’s a bigger villain in all of it. And that is the political when people who are not. who’ve not been in leadership roles, especially let alone the pressure of political leadership, get into a role where they believe they’re in political and professional leadership. And it goes to their head. They’re not prepared for it. And I feel like this guy has no business talking about leadership or being involved in leadership if you can’t handle what he’s handling. So I think that’s a big issue. And I think what we saw in the text of what he said was really, really bad. And You know, him getting on the case of what are some fairly credentialed, very, very capable doctors who, if they don’t like your product, your question should not or your answer should not be to call you effing delusional. It should be to try to understand what it is about your product that may not be satisfactory to highly credentialed, very high quality physicians.
SPEAKER 12 :
Good segue. Dr. Kelly, you can fill us in on some of that as well. And this, by the way, this particular individual, by the way, is a federal employee, correct, Dr. Kelly?
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah. Yeah, I think let me give really the high-level overview for those listening. with regard to what happened. Kelly Means is the brother, the older brother of Casey Means, who was recently nominated to be Surgeon General.
SPEAKER 12 :
Talked about her last week.
SPEAKER 15 :
Both of them, these siblings, have been very, very closely aligned with Robert Kennedy Jr. They showed up on the scene last fall. They were involved in his campaign. when Bobby Kennedy was running for president and when Bobby Kennedy transferred his allegiance over to President Trump’s campaign, the Means siblings came with him. Kelly Means is not a physician, not a scientist. He was a lobbyist with Purdue Pharma in the past and a strategist and runs a PR firm. He also happens to run a private company that’s called TruMed, which frankly I knew absolutely nothing about until this past weekend. Cali Means has been allowed to stay in his private company, TruMed, at the same time as he is serving as a federal employee. He is specifically a special government employee. He is the senior advisor for HHS to the White House. It’s a very high position. Okay. What happened last Saturday was that Cali Means called the CEO of my company, the wellness company, on Saturday morning after sending multiple harassing texts to multiple other board members. He finally got a hold of the CEO and proceeded to launch into a 15-minute profanity-laden rant in which he accuses the wellness company and myself and Dr. Peter McCullough specifically of running a smear campaign about his company, TruMed, that we somehow were feeding information about his company to media influencers, including a woman named Laura Loomer, who were calling into question whether or not TruMed might be doing some things that were illegal. And Callie Means threatened that if we did not do something to force Laura Loomer to stop and we did not stop feeding other people in social media this information about his company, that he would use his position at the White House. Specifically, he would go to Bobby Kennedy and Jay Bhattacharya and tell those two people that we, the wellness company, and specifically myself and Peter McCullough, were trying to undermine the Trump administration and to destroy the Maha movement. In other words, he threatened to use his position as a federal employee to coerce us, to force us, to intimidate us, to do something that would benefit his personal company, TruMed. Furthermore, he goes on to say that if we, the wellness company, decided instead to partner with TruMed, that this would all go away.
SPEAKER 12 :
That sounds like blackmail to me.
SPEAKER 15 :
This is precisely what we were promised. we would never face in this administration. The weaponization of the federal government against private citizens or their businesses. This is no different than weaponizing the IRS against conservative groups, weaponizing FEMA against people with Trump signs in their yard. This is an egregious moral and ethical breach in addition to being flagrantly illegal.
SPEAKER 12 :
So, I mean, that was last weekend. What’s happened this week, or has anything happened?
SPEAKER 15 :
We submitted on Saturday night, the evening of the actual event, we submitted formal ethics complaints to the Oversight Committee for HHS in both the Congress and the Senate. I spoke personally with Senator Ron Johnson and made a copy of the complaint available to him, as well as the audio tape of the call. It was recorded. We submitted it to the people at HHS who are responsible for fundamentally training people who are in the position that Cali means is then being a special government employee to explain to them what is and is not legal, given that they still have a role in the private sector and sort of have a foot in both camps, if you will. So we submitted it far and wide, and we also submitted it to select members of the media. There have been a slew of reports about it, including everybody from you know, Politico to Gateway Pundit and others. I know that Peter Gallulli, the CEO, has done multiple interviews in this regard, as have I. But thus far, I have no idea what’s happening behind the scenes. I can only imagine. I have to imagine that there is great consternation about how they’re going to manage this. The tape speaks for itself. There is no apology that’s going to make this go away. We need this to be absolutely denounced by the White House. We need the president and Bobby Kennedy to absolutely say this is unacceptable and we cannot allow a government agent to be intimidating, threatening, trying to blackmail people. So, you know, this had nothing to do, to be clear, with the Surgeon General position per se. As Steve said, you know, Callie Means does in this rant, refer to me multiple times as being, quote, unhinged, on a different planet, delusional, intimating that and saying flat out that I was delusional if I thought I was being considered to be a surgeon general, which is patently absurd. And I suspect that Bobby Kennedy will take great offense to Calley suggesting that given the number of times that the secretary called me personally, including on the night before the announcement of Casey Means. And then Secretary Kennedy called me personally the morning of the announcement to let me know that the decision had been made to nominate Casey rather than me. I shared with the secretary at that time. my profound disappointment in that decision. I shared with him that I did not believe that KC Means was the right choice for the role of Surgeon General, but that I remain deeply honored to have been considered for such a role and that I would do whatever I could within my means to support him as Secretary of HHS to support the Trump administration and to further the agenda of Maha. This has nothing to do with my having you know, feeling badly about the choice. Other than that, I take great umbrage at someone suggesting that I would be dishonest about the fact that I was being considered.
SPEAKER 12 :
Which we know that would never be the case. Steve, really quick, before we take a break, what is, you know, what is TruMed? Who is TruMed? What do they do? I didn’t know much about them until you guys started talking to me about it this week, did a little bit of research on them, but what do they do?
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t really know. I know Kelly does. I mean, the one thing I will say to what Kelly just said is based on what I read in the articles, do you not have a defamation case against Callie? I mean, he really calls you delusional. I mean, you know, those are very difficult things to overcome when you’re a highly respected, highly credentialed physician and someone’s saying that about you in the public.
SPEAKER 15 :
You, you, you better believe it, Steve. And, and that’s, um, in my back pocket. Um, You’re correct. He impugned my integrity and my credibility in addition to my mental status. And when you are at my level doing that, that’s high table stakes. And I don’t take it lightly. Whether or not I received the official nomination from the President of the United States for Surgeon General, frankly, is neither here nor there. But the fact that I was being considered and that my credentials were sitting on the President’s desk and it was discussed with him the night before the announcement is irrefutable fact. And Robert Kennedy Jr. would support that undoubtedly himself. So yes, there’s a defamation suit there as well. But I think the, and to answer your question, what does TruMed do? TruMed is a company I knew nothing about until I was accused of, you know, putting together a dossier to take it down.
SPEAKER 03 :
I shouldn’t say I know nothing about them, John, because I do, but go ahead, Kelly.
SPEAKER 15 :
The reality is, here’s what they do. Their business model is that they sell health and wellness products, everything from supplements to high-ticket items, things like Peloton bikes, sleep number beds, big things. And it allows you, the site allows you the option to buy those items using your HSA or FSA dollars. So that would be at about a 30% or 40% discount because you don’t pay taxes.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right.
SPEAKER 15 :
In order to use those FSA or HSA funds, you need what’s called a letter of medical necessity. A letter of medical necessity is tantamount to a prescription. It needs to be written by a licensed healthcare provider who says, John must have this Peloton bike because it’s the only product on the market that will allow him to address his, you know, whatever obesity, whatever it is. Okay. It appears, again, I have never verified this. I have never tried to purchase an item from this site. I know others who have. And the concern that was raised by people who have been there, it’s my understanding, is that when they go to check out and use these HSA, yes, I want to use my HSA dollars. that the website auto-generates a letter of medical necessity.
SPEAKER 12 :
I see.
SPEAKER 15 :
In other words, it auto-generates this prescription that it appears to people who’ve done it that it appears that it isn’t actually reviewed by a medical, you know, a healthcare professional. And if that were true, and I have no idea if it were true, it would likely be tax fraud. Right. And that was raised by several people on social media, including Laura Loomer. I don’t know where Laura Loomer came up with that idea. She says she’s never spoken to Foster Colson, the founder of the wellness company, or to Peter Gallulli, the CEO. And she has said on the record to Politico that she does her own research. That’s what she does. She’s a journalist. And again, she said… That it appeared that she did not make it a claim as fact. She said, this is how it appears. So it seems to me, given the, you know, I do crisis management for a living and given my having listened to the transcript of the call no less than 100 times, I could probably repeat it by heart. The tone of Callie Means in this call sounds like it’s disjointed, it’s stream of consciousness. In addition to being profanity-laden, he’s all over the place. He keeps referencing that we are expletive with… With other dynamics, a lot of you were messing with undermining other, quote, unquote, other dynamics. We don’t know what those are. He sounds like he’s in a panic. And when somebody is in a panic, he does not sound like somebody who had a well sort of thought through way of approaching us. And, you know, I’ve said many times, when people behave that way, you’re directly over the target.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s right. You know exactly why he’s in a panic. There’s no question about it. And I’ve got a few things to say as far as the website is concerned, a little bit of research that I did on my own, not because of you guys. Again, a little bit like Laura here as far as that goes. I’m not relying on anybody else telling me anything. I’ve just done a little bit of research on the website itself on the TrueMed side that I’ll talk about as soon as we come back. So, guys, don’t go anywhere. We will come right back. If you’ve got a question for Dr. Kelly or Steve or myself, text us, 307-282-22. Dr. Scott Faulkner, who thinks just like we do right now, literally he would be on our side of the aisle with all of what we’re talking about. Call him directly. Have him be your doctor today, 303-663-6990.
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SPEAKER 04 :
no liberal media bias here. This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, we are back. Myself, Dr. Kelly Victory, Steve House with us as well. We’re talking about some things that have happened over this past week concerning not only Dr. Kelly, but the wellness company, TrueMed, which Dr. Kelly, to your point a moment ago, and again, I’ve done a little bit of research on TrueMed, knew nothing about it before any of this other stuff came out. I’m I don’t think the three of us, by the way, for anybody out there listening, I’ll say this publicly. This particular name, Dr. Kelly and Steve, we’ve never mentioned TrueMed on this particular program ever, ever that I’ve known of. If we did, it slipped through and I didn’t know about it. But this isn’t something that we have highlighted or talked about by any means. It’s just not something that we get into. Correct, Dr. Kelly?
SPEAKER 15 :
Exactly. I knew literally nothing about this company until I was accused of feeding, quote, misinformation and damaging information about it to some reporter. We don’t even consider them to be a competitor of ours. I wouldn’t either, by the way. Yeah, but it’s neither here nor there. Other than that, again, what people need to stick to is the only salient points here, just all the salaciousness about whether or not I was going to be Surgeon General. None of it is pertinent. The only pertinent thing here is that Cali Means leveraged his role as a federal employee to try to manipulate, extort, and bully us into doing something that would benefit him personally. First, to quash, just quash stories that were out there about him perhaps committing some type of fraud, and then ultimately to actually partner with him, and that if we didn’t do those things, he was going to go and tell lies about to Bobby Kennedy and Jay Bhattacharya and tell them that we were trying to undermine and scuttle the Maha movement and this administration. I mean, that is absolutely abhorrent.
SPEAKER 12 :
Nothing could be farther from the truth. I can vouch for that with all of the things that we have talked about long before even This particular Trump presidency, we were talking about things in the last Trump presidency. I mean, the reality is that’s about the farthest thing that we would ever talk about amongst the three of us. And, folks, that includes even some of the private conversations that we three have. These sorts of things just never come up. True Med has never come up in the conversations we’ve ever had. I can vouch for that. And my only concern – I’ll say this to you, Steve, first. I’ll come back to Dr. Kelly – i don’t know whether there’s any kind of fraud going on or not i’m not going to be laura loomer and accuse things you know accuse anybody of anything but i will say this when you’re advertising steve this goes to you when you’re advertising on your website i’m there right now this is me looking at it i’m looking at their their red light therapy mask it’s called higher dose and literally the first bullet point on here says qualify in two minutes for a letter of medical necessity now Steve, I’m not a doctor. I know Kelly, I’ll go to her in a moment, but I’m not a doctor, but I do enough with different things, car related and so on. And I can tell you one thing, Steve, it would be hard for me to even have enough of a conversation to tell you what you should be doing next with your vehicle in two minutes or less.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and you’re 100% right. Let’s think about Cali means for a minute and what this guy’s situation is. So he’s working for a company with big funding, big investors behind it, right? So there’s a bunch of money that’s been thrown at this idea. Loomer accuses them essentially or allegedly accuses them of potentially tax fraud in a way. Because, look, if you could buy one of those masks off that Web site, John, and you happen to run a day spa, you could buy the mask for yourself, get it a tax free level. Right. And then you could market and sell the service and pay for it many, many times over. Correct. That’s not what the intention here is. So then what you do is now you’re panicked. because your investors are really concerned about what’s going on with this article from Laura and the potential problems that you create. And so then you want to go to, you know, the wellness company and get them to partner with you because there’s a whole bunch of credible names there. I don’t know that there’s any name I recognize in the TrueMed group that that is anywhere near the stature of the people that are involved in the wellness company. So you try to get them in because you want to take a win back to your investors and go, you know what, don’t worry about that story. We got these guys bought in. We’re going to partner with them. You know, that’s going to give us credibility. So we get all under the rug. We’ll all be good now. He’s on an island, and getting someone to stop challenging whether they’re legitimate or not, he would do anything to do that because of the island he’s standing on.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s right. That’s right. Dr. Kelly, am I right in my description, though, a moment ago? And I know how they’re doing it. They’re basically having you fill out an online questionnaire regarding your health and providing that, I guess, you check the right boxes. You can get your LMN, your letter of medical necessity. But like I told Steve, I couldn’t do that with you and your vehicle. I don’t know exactly how you can do that with somebody’s health.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct. And there is, you know, these things that keep coming up. You know, I received information the other day, again, not verified by me, but there’s a Web site called Force of Nature Meats. They provide high end meats kind of like Omaha steaks or whatever, where you can go and get a letter of medical necessity to buy your ribeyes. And when you go to do it, where is it? Where is it funnel you to the true med Web site to do the transaction? So you’re trying to tell me that you can buy steaks and expensive meat products with a, quote, letter of medical necessity that’s generated by TruMed? I haven’t verified that, but I’m telling you right now, if that’s the truth, I smell a rat. I didn’t set out to try to expose this. I didn’t know anything about this company, but when somebody comes after me and starts doing what Cali means did, it really raises the question. Furthermore, I think that it’s worth really looking at Cali means his background. He was a consultant. For example, one of the many things he did, he was a consultant for Purdue and, In 2008, right after Purdue had settled a multi hundreds of million dollars lawsuit with the federal government for the fact that they had pushed, they falsified data and tried to lead physicians and patients to believe that OxyContin was not addictive. and that people should take Oxycontin versus other opiates because it was less addictive. Purdue absolutely got slammed with a federal lawsuit, paid hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars. And who was the consultant on the PR side? None other than Cali Means. And Cali Means himself posted that the way that their strategy was to try to, his words, not mine, discredit any experts who came out and said anything to the contrary. In other words, run a smear campaign against any experts who speak out about you and feed that into the media. This is somebody who, I will tell you, has a history that he’s proud of, of participating in in the fraud that ended up killing many, many people in the opiate crisis. And he’s proud of it.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, and really quick, again, any of you listening, this isn’t hard to do, and I can see where even Laura would find all sorts of things. I just did a really quick search online while you guys were talking. found a Reddit thread on TrueMed and people talking about, hey, I’m not overweight. I might have a little bit of family history of cholesterol in my family. Would I be eligible through my HSA to get a, you know, this is a biker that does a lot of, you know, road biking and so on but i would like to have a trainer so when it’s bad outside i can still train which by the way i don’t think that really qualifies medically speaking under your hsa just from the description of what this particular person said but every single personal response on that thread is you’ll have no issues just fill out the form because we’ve done it as well and the reality is there’s you know there’s there’s testimonial after testimony after testimonial that this was not a big deal you can pretty much buy whatever you want to through that letter all you have to do is apply
SPEAKER 03 :
So, John, the one thing I would say about that is, given the metabolic syndrome that exists in the U.S., maybe it is a good idea that you can buy a Peloton bike with your HSA, but that’s not the issue here. You kind of lost me a little bit when you said I could buy ribeye steaks tax-free. I’m like, okay, I’m writing down the website. I want to do that. Yeah, me too. The problem is not… particular products. I mean, if you sleep better, you’re going to be healthy. If you ride a bike, you’re going to, you know, all those things are health related. I mean, the problem is, A, the tax code wasn’t intended for that in HSA. B, you’re being misled or they’re certainly misleading people with how they’re indicating that a medical professional is going to review this and, you know, going to give you, you know, some sort of a letter of approval. I mean, that’s the process that’s problematic, not the fact that it’s a bike or not. And I’m sure there’s probably a decent idea in some respects, but you sure shouldn’t do it this way. And it smells like a rat to me.
SPEAKER 12 :
And you know what? I just looked. You’re right, Dr. Kelly and Steve. You could do this. Force of Nature, right on the homepage. Meat is, in parentheses, officially medicine. Save on average 30% by using your pre-tax HSA, FSA money via TrueMed. It’s right on their website on the front page. That’s wild.
SPEAKER 15 :
Exactly. And so here’s the deal.
SPEAKER 12 :
I just want to be really quick, Dr. Kelly, before we move on, in case anybody else out there is listening, because who knows who is. This is not me saying this. It’s literally right on the very top of the homepage of forceofnature.com. I’m not making this up, folks. It’s literally what I just read to you comes right off of their website. That’s wild.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct. And whether or not that’s legitimate or not, that’s above my pay grade. That’s not my area of expertise.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, really quick, Dr. Kelly, and I do health and wellness for an hour on Wednesdays. We’ve been talking now, as I said earlier, you and I and Steve, for over the last five years. And I know the importance of eating right and eating healthy and all of that. But you would have a hard time, even me, and I get working into some of the gray area of tax codes and so on. I’m a businessman. I understand all about those things. Believe me, I know that there’s a lot of gray in a lot of that. But you would have a hard time convincing me that a high-end steak is somehow medicine, Dr. Kelly.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, and we can argue that out, you know, in the courts or the court of public opinion. The bottom line is, again, is that not whether this is right or wrong, but that if, you know, light was shed on this question publicly, why in the world would the founder of TruMed, Callie Means, decide to come behind closed doors and threaten people? us to do something about it. If he thought he was being slandered by Laura Loomer, then have your lawyers talk to Laura Loomer. Why are you calling me? What’s that about? How dare you leverage your position as a federal employee to try to garner something for your company? And the reason he went to us and not to Laura Loomer is because he knows he could try to get something from us. And I take huge exception to that, and I maintain we were promised that this would not happen in this administration. So now it’s the bewitching hour. This administration is aware of it. We submitted it through all the proper channels. If the oversight committees of Congress and the Senate do nothing about this, then what the hell good are they? If they don’t do anything, when you hand them on a silver platter, evidence of an egregious ethical and legal breach, and no action is taken? then we’re a banana republic.
SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 12 :
And we are back. Myself, Dr. Kelly Victory, Steve House with me as well. Steve, I’ll throw this at you to begin with because I don’t see how there’s much difference between this particular investigation versus some of the things that we’re bringing up when it comes to this other topic with TruMed, and that is UnitedHealth Group is under criminal investigation for possible Medicare fraud, meaning that their stock is now tanking. And I know it’s not exactly Steve, you know, apples to apples, but that’s another big conglomerate that has been doing some things evidently not above board, and they’re being called on the carpet for it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I mean, there’s some fundamental problems, right, which is when the government – is a regulator of things. And, you know, the HSA falls under a tax concept. Correct. United Healthcare and Medicare. I mean, you’re talking about government regulation. Things get really confusing and inefficient. I mean, look at the USAID paid George Soros $256 million out of their pot to do something, and George is a multi-multi-billionaire. How does a guy like that get $256 million? You just go end-to-end, John, in any category you want. United will probably go through an audit of some kind, probably pay a penalty. and keep on operating. I mean, they’re too big not to. So, you know, it’s really about is the penalty worth the crime in these cases? And I don’t know exactly what will happen to TruMed, but one thing I will say is if there isn’t some sort of an investigation after what we’re talking about here, and I went to the website for the Meats themselves. I see the same thing you do. If there isn’t an investigation on this, then that’s worth an investigation all by itself. Is the cover-up worse than the crime?
SPEAKER 12 :
Who knows? We’ll find out. Yeah. And that’s all my point is, Dr. Kelly, is, you know, again, I’m not saying either one is right, wrong or otherwise. I don’t know enough about what either one are being accused of. And all I know is in this particular case, some of the things that you’ve brought to our attention today. And again, I get it, you know, high end food. You know, could you consider that part of your. medical diet and so on. But I’m looking, to Steve’s point, I look at a $24 six-ounce filet that if you can use your pre-tax dollars to buy, it makes that steak about $18 instead of $24, which if you go to your local butcher shop and buy a high-end piece of meat, Dr. Kelly, that’s a lot less money than you’re going to pay from your local butcher.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right. And I want to be careful not to conflate two different things. There’s the discussion we’re having about whether or not it’s legitimate to consider a ribeye steak or a Peloton bike or whatever else. to be a true component of a health and wellness program that should use HSA dollars.
SPEAKER 16 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 15 :
And the irrefutable fact that to use HSA dollars, you have to have a letter of medical necessity.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s the point.
SPEAKER 15 :
And it needs to be a legit one. There are two different issues here.
SPEAKER 12 :
No, thank you. I appreciate you spelling it out because, yeah, really it is two different things. It’s one, is it really the right use of – is it tax-wise and so on the right use of those dollars? Number two, how do you prove that that person really needs to be using those dollars for that? It’s two separate issues, correct? Correct.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct. And so is it possible that the purveyors of these websites and these businesses have, you know, I certainly haven’t done the deep dive into the tax code to see what things you could get by. You know, maybe you can get a new swimming pool built in your backyard using, say, dollars because you want to swim.
SPEAKER 12 :
uh for health i don’t know somebody should look into that sounds like a good idea um well really quick dr kelly i think i think given the fact that you can go on the well you can go on the the the site the true the true site and actually buy a cold plunge and some things like that i don’t know that you could get by doing an entire pool but i think you could do some of the you know swim pools and things like that to your point yeah i don’t see why there’d be any difference between those two right but
SPEAKER 15 :
Right. So that’s one issue is whether or not any of that’s legit and where the cutoff is.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right.
SPEAKER 15 :
But what is not what is not up for question is the fact that the law currently states you must have a letter of medical necessity. And that letter must be reviewed by a licensed health care practitioner. And I think the question that I have and that has been raised by others is whether or not the letters being generated by TrueMed site are actually being reviewed and generated by the medical profession.
SPEAKER 12 :
Because you’re more on the admin end of this. My gut feeling would be this is a form that’s been generated, maybe even with some AI internally on the site itself. If you click all of the right boxes and the formula equates to what it needs to, you get the letter. Whether there’s somebody actually putting a stamp of approval on it or not, Steve, again, I can’t accuse anybody in any way, shape, or form because I do not know. But let’s just say this, Steve, it’s highly suspect.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I mean, it could be a medical director who says, look, there’s 5,900 different products under the circumstances. As long as they answer these three questions, yes, that you can send them a letter making it medically necessary. And then that medical director could, in fact, in the court case, defend that. Not necessarily that it was legitimate. But, Kelly, I would like you to do something for the audience because I’ve heard this a few times recently. um, regarding the wellness company. And I want people to understand the difference. If you watch the ad on the wellness company, you know, you can buy these packages that involve ivermectin and then there’s, there’s antibiotics in there and it says on the ad, you don’t need to go see your doctor. But I believe what’s happening there is, is you guys as doctors or your medical doctors are actually reviewing at the package relative to the people who are trying to buy it. Is that not true?
SPEAKER 15 :
Oh, absolutely. You have to go on and fill out an entire medical history and questionnaire, and these drugs are written specifically for the individual. If you purchase one of these, you will get a kit. Every bottle will say Steve House on it and tell you how to take it. It’s been reviewed by one of our physicians based on a very detailed medical intake form. What we’re saying is you don’t need to go see your doctor if you’re You then will have the medications on hand. These are very simple, well-tolerated, very safe medications, and they’ve been reviewed to be appropriate for you that you could have on hand. Our point has been that people are way smarter than we give them credit for. Your average woman, for example, knows when she’s got a bladder infection. She doesn’t need to go to the urgent care, sit in there for six hours. and pay you know an 800 urgent care bill and then have to go to the drug store at two o’clock in the morning to try to get an antibiotic you know okay and and we guide people how to use it there’s a you can have a telehealth visit at the time with somebody a face-to-face with a doctor or you can just use the instruction booklet that comes with it but yeah these are not just written willy-nilly there’s a a medical intake that’s reviewed by one of our physicians. And there’s a telehealth visit that’s available if you’d prefer to do it face to face.
SPEAKER 03 :
And the reason why I had you do that is because I think there are some Callie and Casey Means fans out there. And maybe Callie will do it himself. They’re going to say, well, you know, the guys at the wellness company basically do the same thing. They’re telling you you don’t need a doctor and they’re producing some yada, yada, yada. So I just, you know, as a heads up, I’ve heard it a couple of times. I’ve been traveling this week and I’ve had interactions with doctors. Yeah.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, and let me make sure I’m correct on this one.
SPEAKER 14 :
Very, very different.
SPEAKER 12 :
Let me make sure I’m correct on this one as well, Dr. Kelly, and maybe I’m wrong on this. Given that you’re writing those people prescriptions, yes, they could in fact use their HSA dollars for those because they’re legitimate prescriptions, but you’re not going out and advertising that as the mainstay for why they should buy from you. Am I correct in that as well?
SPEAKER 15 :
We don’t offer it to be paid for with HSA dollars for one thing. HSA is meant for things that aren’t covered by standard insurance or other things. So we don’t make that as an option. But here’s what I would say, Steve, to answer your question. Go to TrueMed’s site and tell me who their doctors are.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, I know.
SPEAKER 15 :
You go to the wellness company’s website, you’ll see exactly who they are with our bios, our medical degrees. You’ll see photos of us. We are real people with real names and real credentials. It’s not smoke and mirrors. This is not vaporware. This is a real company. And again, I didn’t set into this to cast aspersions at TrueMed. I’m simply saying what spawned or appeared to spawn this insane attack that we received from this federal government employee named Cali Means. It was some concern that he appeared to have about his company. TrueMed is what motivated his call to threaten us.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, makes sense. And again, folks, really quick, everybody listening, you and Steve as well. I’m all for people being more healthy and buying products to make themselves more healthy. And if legitimately they can use HSA dollars to do so, I am not against that in any way, shape, or form, Dr. Kelly. I know you and Steve aren’t as well. So there’s no way the three of us would be out here attacking TrueMed. I mean, I think there might be some things here that are really in the gray area, but we’re by no means attacking them in any way, shape, or form.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, and they couldn’t accuse us of that. I just want to make sure that everybody understands. I 100% support what the wellness company does. I think it’s the right idea. I think they do it the right way. I ask you to explain it because I don’t think people… I think that Callie and TrueMed are going to come back at you going, well, they do the same thing. And the answer is they absolutely do not do the same thing in any form. And for the record… Twice a month, the ribeye steak is a behavioral health medication for me, so I’m going to have to really figure that out.
SPEAKER 15 :
Good one, Steve. And so I am with you, by the way, John. I am all for people being able to obtain the things that will help them live a happier, healthier, better life. But we have to have some limits on it. Otherwise, you could take it to the extreme. If I say, well, what’s best for my mental health is having a new horse, and therefore I want to buy a new pony, you know, with my HSA dollars. You know, we have to have some limits. There has to be a health care professional who says this is a legitimate expenditure because we are giving you are this is falling on the taxpayer.
SPEAKER 14 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 15 :
We are allowing people to have a tax that, you know, relief on these items. That’s right. And therefore we have to have some limits on it. And frankly, I’m willing to, you know, would like to see this be relatively liberal. I like the idea of people being able to buy a Peloton bike. or a treadmill, for example, with, you know, I think ribeye steaks might be pushing it. But I like the idea of being relatively lenient with the guidelines. But in order to keep it from spinning out of control, I do think you need to hold that requirement that the letter of medical necessity is, in fact, you know, guided by a clinician and that there are some limits on this.
SPEAKER 12 :
Agreed. Agreed. All right. I’ll close out with that, guys. It was a fast hour. Thank you so much for doing all of that. And for all of you listening, you can learn more about Dr. Kelly Victory at our website, RushToReason.com. But Dr. Kelly, we’re behind you. You know that full well. So thank you for all you do.
SPEAKER 1 :
100%.
SPEAKER 15 :
I appreciate it very much. I don’t think this is over yet.
SPEAKER 12 :
No, I don’t think so either. We’ll talk more next week. Steve as well. Thank you as well. And yes, we are in full support of Dr. Kelly.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, even though I sent her a funny hat and some sunglasses, but I still 100% support it. Good one.
SPEAKER 12 :
Appreciate you, man. Have a good rest of your day.
SPEAKER 03 :
You too.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, man. Appreciate you. Have a great night. Veteran Windows and Doors up next. And Dave would love to help you with what you need when it comes to your windows and doors. And that’s a lot of health issues related to that as well I could get into. I won’t right now. But give Dave a call today. Go to klzradio.com to find him.
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SPEAKER 13 :
It’s time to leave your safe space. This is Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, and closing out this hour, I would have also, or I would suggest to Mr. Means that what he’s doing and what he did over the weekend is really not very wise on several fronts. It’s wrong in what he did, period. But on top of that, he’s more than likely going to bring some attention to himself and even some of what we were talking about in regards to fillets and things like that, where I think he would have been better off to have not said anything whatsoever and just let things ride along. Number one, there was no reason for him to say what he said. But number two, he’s going to draw attention to himself in a way that he probably is going to wish in the end he hadn’t done anyway. So I’ll leave it at that. We’ll come back. Two more hours coming your way. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
