In this insightful episode, John Rush is back with his co-host Andy Pate to explore the effects of tariffs and politics on the economy. Listen as Jordan Goodman breaks down how tariffs are influencing essential industries like automotive and agriculture, affecting the price of goods, and leading to global trade shifts. The episode also introduces Dr. Scott Faulkner, who presents a novel approach to health care, exemplifying personalized care over conventional methods, and showcases local service providers like Roof Savers of Colorado and Geno’s Auto Service offering practical solutions to everyday challenges.
SPEAKER 17 :
This is Rush to Reason. You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes. With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 16 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did.
SPEAKER 06 :
Get a job, sir. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 12 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life. That there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 17 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush, presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 08 :
And it is Tuesday. Welcome, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. I’m your host, John Rush, and of course, Andy Pate with me today. Andy, and welcome back from vacation. Thanks for filling in for me while I was gone as well. It was good to do, and welcome back to you. Always a joy to get back. We’ll get into some of that a little bit later. Up next, though, or up first, I should say today, Jordan Goodman, America’s Money Answer Man. Jordan, welcome. Always a joy, always a joy. And we always ask, but because we’re not on the East Coast, what’s your weather been like?
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s nice. I’m in North Carolina. It’s 76 as we speak, so not so bad at all.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, that’s not bad. We’re 80 here, so we’re actually a little warmer, which is not the way it usually works.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. Well, anyway, fall is falling.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, it is. It is right around the corner. Speaking of which, the Fed will meet, I believe, it’s next week. Am I right in saying that? That’s right. Or is it later this week?
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s correct.
SPEAKER 08 :
Next week.
SPEAKER 16 :
No, no, next week. That’s correct.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. And your thoughts there?
SPEAKER 16 :
Everybody’s expecting them to cut rates by a quarter point.
SPEAKER 05 :
By the way, that’s laughable. That’s pure politics. Yep. But go ahead.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well… There it is. They’ve had five straight meetings in a row. They haven’t done anything. And the very, very weak unemployment numbers we had on Friday kind of made it clear that they really need to do something to help the economy. I don’t think a court report is going to help very much, but it’s at least a sign that they’re trying to help a little bit. We had 22,000 jobs created in August. People have been expecting 2,000-plus jobs. The previous months were revised. Downward one month actually was negative of loss of 13,000 jobs. And then across the board, all the different sectors were negative losses of jobs. The only three that had positive gains were health care, leisure and hospitality, and private education. Everything else was negative. And the biggest negative was the federal government. there’s been about 100,000 layoffs so far this year with many more to come.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, yeah, I mean, there are two areas where we’re really seeing a lot of jobs lost. Number one, of course, with the federal government, which offsets a lot of what we’ve seen in the past. And number two, foreign-born workers. Okay, foreign-born workers have lost about a half million jobs this year, while American-born workers have gained well over a million. And I think this is just what we’re seeing here is a transition under Trump.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, in some areas, but in many areas, foreign-born workers are going away, and there are no American workers to fill them in. We’ve got fields of fruits and vegetables rotting. There’s nobody to do it. There’s not enough people doing construction. There’s not enough people doing meatpacking plants, restaurants, hotels, all the areas that the undocumented people were staffing are rotting. empty. People are afraid to go to work or get picked up in the field.
SPEAKER 05 :
Jordan, can I just ask you a question?
SPEAKER 16 :
Workers, but Americans are not picking up on these jobs. That’s my impression.
SPEAKER 05 :
Jordan, I just want to ask you a question. Do you believe we should have borders at all? I mean, do you believe that we should be enforcing immigration law at all? Because that’s all they’re doing is enforcing immigration law. These people invaded a nation. And I agree with you. I understand. You’re just looking at the numbers and saying this is what’s happening when some of these industries. But I just want to know where you’re coming from.
SPEAKER 16 :
I think we should have borders. I do think we should have borders. Okay. But I also think we should have various work permits. Yeah. To bring people in to do jobs we do will not do.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, actually, really quick. We we do. But as somebody in that industry and in that area, the ones we do have are controlled typically by a big business. It’s extremely hard for a small company to participate in the programs we have now. That’s one of the things, Jordan, that needs to change. You need to make it more universal to where if there’s a company. Say your somebody only needs five people. You ought to be able to go out and hire five people. Currently, the only way you get on the list is if you’re hiring 100 people, for example. That person needing five people is not on the list.
SPEAKER 16 :
So how do all these farmers do it who have to hire hundreds of people?
SPEAKER 08 :
They typically work through co-ops, and they have the ability through the HB programs to do that, where the average family farm that doesn’t participate in all of that won’t get any of those workers. That’s a good example, by the way. And that needs fixed. That’s one of the things, to your point, Jordan, that needs fixed. Everybody should be able to utilize those programs equally. And right now, you can’t. You have to have pretty well-funded lawyers and so on to be able to participate in even the application process to acquire those workers. It’s not fair at all.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. And I’m going to e-verify. In theory, it’s good. I mean, we predicted this was going to happen, and this is in fact what’s happening now. And I’ve been seeing various stores that don’t have the fruits and vegetables they normally would have because either they’re just not getting from the farms to us or they’re coming from Mexico where the tariffs are higher and, you know, there’s just a shortage of Avocados and bananas.
SPEAKER 08 :
Your area must be different than ours because we haven’t seen any of that here at all. Zilch. None.
SPEAKER 16 :
Nothing. Absolutely none of that. A lot of the tariffs have now hit in Medicare. Not all of them. Not Mexico yet. Canada they have hit. For example, I’ll just give you one. I’m working in this area a lot. It’s sugar. Brazil has hit with a 50% tariff. So the price of sugar per metric ton a month ago was maybe 800 per metric ton. Quote I saw was about 1,400 a metric ton, 1,300, 1,400 a metric ton.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, for the time being, this is a negotiating tactic. I don’t think that that’s going to stay in place long term.
SPEAKER 08 :
And I realize we use sugar in a lot of different things, but reality, and I do my health and wellness show on Wednesdays for an entire hour, I will tell you, Jordan, that if people stopped eating it, we’d all be better off.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, that’s nice, but you tell that to Coca-Cola or Hershey or Bakery.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, no offense. And those are the products that, and I get it, it helps run the economy and so on. I’m fully aware of that. But those are the products that are killing Americans.
SPEAKER 16 :
I agree. Sugar is not good. I’m just saying, that’s one of many examples. Steel and aluminum is another one. They’re up 25%, 50%. So car production is really getting hurt because they’re caught. Basic materials, appliances, the same kind of thing. And this is happening across the economy right now. Tariffs are actually hitting. Yeah, but let me tell you this.
SPEAKER 08 :
The reality on the tariffs, especially in the auto industry, it’s not the tariffs and the increase in the cars that are affecting people buying them. It’s the interest rates that the Fed will not move on because they’re being very political with Donald Trump. That’s the reason nobody’s buying cars because they’re 8, 9, 10 or more percent interest. They’re not buying cars at that point in time, period.
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s a combination. I mean, we’ve had interest rates high for quite a while. I mean, last year, interest rates were pretty much the same as they are now.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yes, but what happens there, Jordan, is the people that can afford to buy cars early into the market cycle will go ahead and do so because they’re the ability that have the cash and can pay. Those that can’t and rely on a lesser… interest rate to make those payments actually work because, by the way, their credit cards are also at 30% and so on. They’re the ones that are really affected, and those are the ones right now that you’re seeing. And by the way, I coach automotive shops on a routine basis. This is what customers are saying. They can’t buy a new car because of the rates.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, and also, Jordan, last year’s job creation numbers were just revised down by over 900,000.
SPEAKER 1 :
900,000.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay, so I think we can safely say the rates have been too high for too long. And it has gotten really out of control. They need to lower them. A quarter point is an insult. I personally think it should be minimum a half point and then another half point in the next month.
SPEAKER 08 :
A quarter point is insulting, to be honest with you.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
You’re playing politics if you do a quarter point.
SPEAKER 16 :
They typically move in quarter point unless there’s something emerging. A year ago, they did lower it by 50 basis points. Remember last fall before the election?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. How about that? How about that? So a year ago, they lower it by 50. I guess they, you see, Jordan, that’s what I’ve been saying. They’re playing politics. So yes, there was an emergency. It was called an election. And so they lower it a half point right before an election. But now they’re talking about quarter points. Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous. We have a president who, look, I’ve been saying all along, we’re going to go through short-term pain. I’ve been saying all along we’re going to see some higher prices at times on a number of products, especially in the interim, in the short term, when he’s going to have some very high tariffs, like steel and aluminum on Canada and so forth, where he’s negotiating. And then those will come down, and we’ll see the prices come back down. I’ve said all along we’re going to see some of that, but we’re also going to see a boom early next year in the economy and job creation.
SPEAKER 08 :
Depending upon what the Fed does.
SPEAKER 05 :
But the only thing that can hold it back is the Fed. Go ahead, Jordan.
SPEAKER 16 :
In some cases, the tariffs have been 15%, like Japan and Europe and so on. And even that causes some pretty big price increases. People are used to 2%, now 15%. That’s a pretty big increase for something like that. But then there’s the big ones. I mean, India is 50%, Brazil is 50%, Canada is 35%. These are some of our bigger partners here. And the two that are still unresolved is Mexico and China. And we’ll see. I’m not sure we’re going to be able to come to an agreement with both of them. You know, in China, we import roughly $600 billion worth of stuff from them every year. This year, it’s way down in both directions. We’ve imported less from China, and they’re importing a lot less from us, particularly farm things, wheat and soybeans and corn. uh… we’re we’re having the harvest now and the farmers are not sure whether to sell it because china’s not buying the stuff they’re buying it from uh… argentina and brazil and canada and other places in the center of the u.s.
SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 08 :
That’s Geno’s with a J. Live and local, back to Rush to Reason. All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Debra’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Jordan Goodman. Jordan is America’s Money Answer Man. Jordan, how do folks find you?
SPEAKER 16 :
They can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. Really quick, I just wanted to throw this in. One thing that I do feel, again, if the Fed will get on their – how should I say this? Get on board with actually getting the economy going. We’ve got some really great things business-wise. Myself, I can relate to this. When it comes to the tax breaks that now have been solidified and are there, providing you make the borrowing aspect for the businesses that will utilize those tax breaks – well enough so that they can actually take advantage of that. And that’s my fear, Jordan, is the Fed is holding up some of what Donald Trump and his administration have done to get the economy back up and running, but businesses are still not going to invest back in themselves unless they think the rate is right.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, let’s give them the benefits. Let’s say we get three rate cuts this year, which some people are saying is possible. Three quarters of a point, it’s going to be a quarter point each time. We’re currently at four and a half, so that would bring us to three and three quarters. But all the other rates are based on that. It would help some, but not that much. It’s not going to make a business say, oh, I’m saving three-quarters of a point.
SPEAKER 08 :
And that’s my point. We need a full point right now to restore the confidence in these guys that want to invest, reinvest, do whatever they want to do along those lines, take advantage of the tax breaks, and so on. That’s my point. You are correct in everything you’re saying. A quarter point each time is laughable.
SPEAKER 05 :
Look, I got to jump in one last time on the politics.
SPEAKER 08 :
But really quick, Jordan, this is coming from somebody that does this. I am one of those guys that we are now talking about. I’m that individual. And I can tell you personally, three quarters of a point by the end of the year is not enough.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, it isn’t. But Jordan, really quick here. Like you said. They drop at a half point at once last year, right, going into an election. Now think about this. At that time, inflation had not been hovering as low for as long as it is right now. So actually, the circumstances were much more ripe for a rate cut now than they were then. and yet they’re talking about going up lately andy yeah but the latest numbers of inflation have been rising yeah but only oh yeah but only ticking a tiny bit and they were down for many months the point is they should have done this several months ago they should have been cutting cutting the rates yeah all right i mean they were in the mid two percent now they’re the high to 2.9 3.1 something in that range yeah half a point not that big of a deal one way the other for most people yeah that’s not going to be that big of a deal in real life i mean i don’t think that’s
SPEAKER 16 :
capturing where were they last going out there people are seeing you know prices of insurance and food and all things going up all over the place way more than three percent i think of people’s real life experience then why is the number three three percent well it’s it’s a it’s a mix it’s the way they i know it housing is part of it uh you know so i think it’s understated frankly just like the employment was dramatically overstated. I mean, to lose 900,000 jobs is not a particularly good sign that DLS is… And I think what it is is there’s a mix there, and I don’t think it’s overstated.
SPEAKER 08 :
I think it’s pretty accurate because one of the things that is keeping some things down and not allowing it to get all haywire is oil prices and energy costs and so on. As you keep those in check… keep those down i think the numbers right now are pretty accurate yes there are some things that have gone up now i do believe that what happened what’s happened with a lot of households is they’ve had to recheck okay what are we buying and why and do we need that so let’s say for example go back to the sugar example a moment ago and a can of coke let’s say a six pack of coke goes from five dollars to seven dollars well you know what as a family you may decide we don’t need coke anymore and you know what at the end of the day so what Yeah. No, that’s true. Big deal. No offense. That family is not going to be out anything by not buying Coke. They can drink water and be just fine.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yes. But there are other necessities. I mean, a lot of fruits and vegetables are going up.
SPEAKER 08 :
But again, Jordan, you can be selective on that as well. And my point is there might be some particular fruit or vegetable you really love and enjoy, but your pocketbook can’t afford it. You know what? Oh, well, buy the stuff you can afford. And that’s what’s happening right now.
SPEAKER 05 :
Honestly, Jordan, maybe it’s different out there in North Carolina. I don’t know. But I have not seen a dramatic change of any kind at the store this year. Okay. Has there been a little inflation?
SPEAKER 08 :
Meat’s the biggest thing. We all know the story on red meat, which, by the way, wasn’t caused by tariffs or anything else other than just the lack of production on the ranching sides of things that happened two years ago, not right now. So the reality is, other than beef, there hasn’t been huge costs on the food side of things anyways.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. One thing that could change this entire picture, today the Supreme Court said they’re going to uh… review of the case on tariff so there was a record federal judge last week that so that uh… trump does not have the legal authority to impose all his character to do it all year because the rule the he’s applying probably american uh… uh… i forget the emergency something act right talked about uh… sanctions it does not talk about that and that is what he’s been using what it says in the constitution is the congress has the right to regulate commerce and tariffs or commerce so what that judge said is this entire year has been for him putting these tariffs on things now it’s going to go to the supreme court and we’ll see which way they go let’s for for the moment say they agree with this judge, and they say that it has to be done by Congress, not by the President.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’ll be catastrophic. Absolutely catastrophic.
SPEAKER 16 :
It would be unbelievably catastrophic. Can you imagine? That means all the tariffs, the billions and hundreds of billions that have been collected this year, were illegal tariffs. Now, I guess they’re calling it the external revenue service now, right, to collect tariffs. It will become the external refund service. Take all that money and give it back.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, also, Jordan, the much bigger problem is going to be this. He has $10 trillion to $12 trillion in investment coming into our country over the next year or two. That is going to go bye-bye if we don’t have the leverage. You see, the reason those people have been signing all those is because of what he’s been doing with tariffs. That’s right. Now, his argument, I do think he’s going to win narrowly at the Supreme Court. I think he’ll win narrowly at SCOTUS because he’s been using this as part of his total foreign policy. He is the commander in chief. This isn’t just financial fiscal policy. He’s doing this to negotiate many aspects of what’s happening internationally.
SPEAKER 16 :
You are correct. Companies have made major investments internationally. to avoid higher tariffs. Like Europe said they were going to do that to get a 15%. Japan did the same and other places.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right, so you can take about $12 trillion in investment and you no longer know if that’s going to be coming.
SPEAKER 16 :
I mean, if they were to make that ruling… I’m saying on the law, I’m not a lawyer, but on the law, if the Constitution says commerce regulated by Congress, okay, and this law that he’s betting on that says nothing about tariffs and only talks about sanctions… it seems to be a purely legal basis he does not have the right to do it congress does but congress has kind of doing nothing right now they’re not they can’t to do anything on the affairs so what the free but on a purely legal basis i think they’ve got a point
SPEAKER 05 :
I don’t think it’ll hold. But maybe. All I know is this. If he loses, we’re doomed. It’s going to be absolutely catastrophic. No, I mean, seriously. I cannot even measure.
SPEAKER 16 :
It would be a major disruption. Let’s put it that way. Yes, I agree.
SPEAKER 05 :
It would absolutely destroy everything he has been doing.
SPEAKER 08 :
And I tend to agree with Andy, and it’s debatable as to whether it’s constitutional or not, because Congress has over the years given the president power to establish tariffs through certain conditions, for example, national security concerns, trade deficits and so on. So it’s not like it’s never been done before. Maybe not to this. Well, it hasn’t been done.
SPEAKER 16 :
He’s got tariffs on every country on Earth and just by his whim. I want to do 25… No, I’m going to stop it there.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s not by whim. He is very calculated in what he’s doing. It is not by whim, by any means.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, he changes it. I’ll just give you an example. Brazil, okay? We have a surplus with Brazil, okay? But he put 50% tariffs on Brazil because he doesn’t like what they’re doing to Bolsonaro, the previous president who was the Trump of the traffic, as they say. Right. And they’ve been prosecuting. He doesn’t like that, so we hit him with a 50% tariff. That’s what I would call by whim.
SPEAKER 08 :
See, I would call that strategic in letting them know who’s in charge and who’s not. We are. That’s what I would say.
SPEAKER 16 :
They haven’t released Bolsonaro from things, and they’re getting 50% pass.
SPEAKER 08 :
As a side note, and you know this as well as I, they don’t have much to stand on. In other words, who are their other customers? They don’t have that many.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, we’re a big one. We’re a big one, and as I mentioned… the actual prices of sugar coming in, and it’s coffee and it’s other things. We import a lot of stuff from Brazil, a percent higher than it was two months ago.
SPEAKER 05 :
I think, Jordan, the bottom line is this. What Trump inherited was a tariff situation internationally where no one had been negotiating on the behalf of America for the last couple decades. As a result, we had high tariffs on us from every corner of the earth. And we were not imposing anywhere near those tariffs elsewhere. So for the first time, we have had somebody negotiating on our behalf. And you can’t have all of Congress, you can’t have a committee negotiate on your behalf like that. It’s got to be a leader. And so he has done that. If the court rules against him, they are going to take away the only one who has negotiated on our behalf and improved our trade overseas legally. In decades. Ten to one. I mean, that’s why I’m saying I’m not just being hyperbolic here. I am saying that will be devastating.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, as I said, this has been the primary thrust of his international economic policy. Not only this year, going back to 1980s, he railed against Japan and said tariffs for a while. He’s been doing this for decades.
SPEAKER 15 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 16 :
And if he loses the legal underpinning for it, it will be chaos. I totally agree with you, but I’m just saying it’s possible.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, we’ll see how that one goes, and we may be able to talk about that next time. Let’s talk about gold for a moment, because that is something that a lot of people can invest in, utilize in their portfolios. Talk about gold.
SPEAKER 16 :
So gold has been rising almost every day, over 3,600 an ounce, all-time record high. It’s going up for several reasons. The U.S. dollar has been falling, and people around the world, not only individuals but central banks and companies, are just buying gold like crazy as a kind of alternative to the dollar. And just all this instability with the wars in Russia and Ukraine and the wars in the Middle East, and it just makes people very nervous. They’ve been buying gold. There’s not that much new gold being created all the time. So there’s a shortage, and prices are going up, and I think they’re going to go up more. There’s different ways people can buy gold. They can buy physical gold. They can also do a so-called ETF, exchange-traded fund, a gold ETF. They can do gold mining shares, which are the companies that mine for gold, which is actually a better way to do it because it’s leveraged. In other words, if you’re a mining company, and you mine gold, your cost of production is pretty much the same, but you sell it for 3,600 ounces instead of 3,000 ounces, and that just increases your profit margin a lot. So gold mining shares tend to do best when gold prices go up as they happen. That’s a good way to play it. And you can do it either individually, like Newmont Mining and Barrick and those kind of companies, or an exchange-traded fund that has all the different gold mining shares in it.
SPEAKER 08 :
and at the end of the day, does it matter? I mean, are all of those instruments fine, or are they more protected one way or the other?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, I wouldn’t use the word protected. I mean, gold is volatile, but it’s been volatile up.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and what I mean by protected is when you’re physically hanging on to something and it’s in your hand, that’s different than a piece of paper, correct?
SPEAKER 16 :
It is. It is, definitely. And I mean, GLD… which is the exchange-traded fund for physical gold, has physical gold behind it, but you’re holding a piece of paper that the share of that physical gold, which is in London somewhere. Yeah, I mean, having some physical gold in your hands, there’s a certain insurance policy aspect to that, and that’s worked out very well. I would just say buy bullion, or like American Eagle coins that are pretty much one-to-one. When you start getting into numismatics, a big premium, 50% or more, for the so-called scarcity value of it, but it usually doesn’t work. If you’re buying coins from the Korean Olympics from 1988 or something. You know, you paid 50% more than the price of gold. You might never recover that. I would not do numismatics.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. All right, great break. Again, thanks so much. Again, Jordan Goodman, America’s Money Answer Man. We’ll come right back. Veteran Windows and Doors is up next. One way to keep money in your pocket is with Veteran Windows and Doors because they take out the middleman, therefore charging you less for windows and doors. Talk to Dave today. Go to klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 09 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 08 :
And we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate, Jordan Goodman, America’s Money Answer Man. Again, Jordan, how do folks find you?
SPEAKER 16 :
They can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, let’s talk for a moment about the, and I was on vacation, didn’t read a lot of news because I didn’t have the best of connections and so on, but I did see and read about the Google monopoly. Let’s talk about that for a moment.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yes. So earlier this year, Google lost a lawsuit saying that they had a monopoly on the search business, which they do. They have over 90% of the search business, something like that. And then just last week we got to the penalty phase, what the penalty is going to be for their monopolization, and the government had been asking for them to have to spin off Chrome, their browser, and make all kinds of other moves, and the judge said no, they don’t have to spin off Chrome, and there’s a few exclusive agreements they had with companies that they have to kind of modify, but Pretty much the way it was taken was they let them off scot-free. Almost no change in the way things are going to work with Google. So a lot of expensive lawyers and not very much change for consumers in the end.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well… What’s the – I mean, I’m one where they develop certain things. They spend all the money. They became the leader. I mean, I’m one of those in business where it’s like back in the day when they made GM spin off a lot of the divisions they had. They had a train division. They had an earth-moving division. They had Frigidaire and so on. And the government came along and said, oh, no, GM, you’re a monopoly. You’ve got to spin all this stuff off because we just can’t have you. do that at the end of the day by the way it was worse for consumers not better when all said and done General Motors had some of the best things going in those particular areas actually was benefiting consumers my thought is not much different when it comes to Google and I’m not a Google fan but I don’t see it in a much different way well the difference here is that consumers don’t pay anything for their service which is of tremendous value the product for Google is a consumer
SPEAKER 16 :
that is being sold to advertisers. Okay, that’s the business model.
SPEAKER 08 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 16 :
So people get great services, this incredible search, including artificial intelligence. They get Google Maps. They get Google Phone. They get Google Translation. They get all kinds of really great services for free.
SPEAKER 08 :
Including you don’t need an office product anymore from Microsoft. I mean, the reality is that if you use their services, you pretty much get all of that, you know, email, et cetera, for free, as you’re saying.
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s right. So there’s not consumer harm, but I guess the argument would be there’s harm to advertisers if they have to pay more for advertising, but they built a better mousetrap. I think the part that they were objecting to, for example, Google pays Apple about $20 billion a year for making Google Chrome… the primary search bar, things like that. And they try to install themselves as these to go for search. The government was saying that’s a monopolistic practice. And they lost. They said, yes, you are monopolistic, but the penalty was they don’t keep doing it. So anyway, that’s the way Wall Street took it. is that they might have lost the case, but they won the war.
SPEAKER 08 :
Interesting. Well, and again, that’s one where it’ll be interesting to see how that shakes. And I agree with you. It has nothing to do with, well, I shouldn’t say it has nothing to do with, because that consumer data is big, and that’s where all the money is being made. But at the end of the day, the consumers aren’t being affected by this in any ill manner whatsoever.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, I mean, some people would say the monopolistic, you know, that they use consumers’ data to sell. And so does everyone else, by the way.
SPEAKER 08 :
So that argument doesn’t really hold much water, because so does Tesla, so does everybody else out there that has any kind of access to you.
SPEAKER 16 :
The data is the gold these days, right? And the data about you and your habits… I mean, for example, companies can see what you’re searching for, right, if you go into Google. And so that’s a good place to… advertised as you know you’re looking for that thing where they could be a trip could be refrigerator where it may be that that’s an example of what would be considered intrusive because they’re watching your behavior all the time and selling your behavior people who would want to advertise for that that’s that’s kind of the objection uh… i don’t think it’s too bad that go with the suspect there are other search engines out there and people have a free choice of what they use and they use it because of in fact there is a big uh… I guess the right word, to Google now because of artificial intelligence. A lot of people can go to ChatGPT or Claude or other things and do searches to get better results than by going to Google. So that’s the marketplace.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I’m one of those users that is using Google less and less and using chat more and more because I actually get faster and better results in doing so. So Google, they do have competition despite what some might think.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. Theirs is called Gemini, I think, the Google AI. But, I mean, that to me is the marketplace working, which is a good thing instead of having the government kind of dictate it.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. Shifting gears, speaking of AI, which, you know, a lot of what we even talk about with the economy and what’s going to happen with jobs and even a lot of the things we talk about with, you know, foreign workers coming in and so on. There’s going to be a big shift. And I had a long conversation with an individual last night. It was a school teacher, by the way, about this. And by the way, a school teacher that understands what’s coming and is trying to teach his students that, you know, if you really want a future, the trades might not be such a bad idea because the reality is it’s going to be really hard to AI that plumbing problem. and that automotive technician, and, and, and, and we can go down the list. It’s going to be really hard to, you know, roboticize a lot of those things, and it’s going to be a huge need. So maybe you ought to think about sidestepping college and get into the trades instead, because everything we’re talking about is true.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, that totally makes sense. And it’s happening to some extent. I guess many colleges are doing a little bit better. But we’ve got a long way to go, and the people who are in the trades now, for the most part, are the 50s, 60s, and 70s and retiring. These are the baby boomers who did all this stuff. That’s right. There’s nothing close to enough people coming up to replace all those tradespeople.
SPEAKER 05 :
Hey, Jordan, take a look back at colleges for a second. First of all, I agree with both of you on the trades. I think that’s where the future really is for a lot of young workers. But looking at colleges, what is AI going to do to their product over the next 10, 20 years? I mean, seriously, what is a college degree going to be worth over the next 10, 20 years because of AI?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, you don’t just learn facts in college. True. how to think. And drink. And drink. That’s important to learn. And party, yes. But it’s changing. Now, I saw some recent pieces. The professors have caught on. They can spot a paper that was written by AR. So the new thing now is oral arguments. Now, when you’re getting a PhD or something, you not only give your paper, but you have to defend it to a committee of people who are knowledgeable. People are trying to bring that back now, and you just can’t spit something out of ChatGPT, and then you have to defend it. You actually have to understand what you came out of it, not just people. So that is a good thing. So the professors are catching on to this, and they’ve got software that can spot AI. I mean, if they Get the exact same essay from everybody else. We know exactly what they’ve done.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, Jordan, I mean, seriously, what you’re saying there, requiring these oral essays, could that bring back eloquence in our society? Because I’ve got to be honest. I think it would be a good thing.
SPEAKER 16 :
It would be good.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I have a college degree.
SPEAKER 16 :
Learn to communicate and get your ideas across. Yeah. In a somewhat adversarial situation, you’ve got to defend. Right. You know, as I said, just like when you have a Ph.D., The final step of it is to defend your ideas with a panel of knowledgeable people. If that could be done on a broader basis, I think that would sharpen people up. Think of the Socratic method in law school or something.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, what I’m saying is this, Jordan. I have a college degree. I work here with John, who does not have a college degree. John is far more eloquent and able to convey his ideas far better than… than virtually everybody I’ve known with a college degree. I worked for many years in the industry and with people who had college degrees, and quite honestly, they had become very ineloquent. They were not good at stating their ideas. They were not good at writing their ideas. In fact, their grammar was atrocious. I was constantly the go-to person for correcting everybody’s grammar. And I’m thinking maybe AI is putting colleges in a position to where kids have to learn to speak again. And think. And think.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yep. Yeah, and so the only thing, it’s a matter of scale. I mean, if you go to UCLA or something, there’s 50,000 people. I mean, how could you logistically have each student… spend a significant amount of time defending their ideas.
SPEAKER 08 :
This is probably a discussion we can have even down the road some, but I think this is where, you guys correct me if I’m wrong, but I think this is where you start seeing different types of degrees and things that start to happen along those lines, meaning that if you’re going to be one of those students that gets more checked… and you’ve got more ability to go into the workplace afterwards because of what we’re talking about, you become one of those that does get challenged and has some of those types of oral exams and so on, and maybe the degree itself changes with some of this morphing that’s going on right now.
SPEAKER 16 :
But I mean, these are skills that you use in the workplace.
SPEAKER 08 :
Correct. You have to defend your ideas.
SPEAKER 16 :
You’re proposing something.
SPEAKER 08 :
Absolutely.
SPEAKER 16 :
And you’re in a meeting, and others say, how about this, how about that? I mean, this is the way business is done. is a give and take. And so you need the skills to be able to defend your ideas and put them forward and collaborate and all that. So if we can get that skill, that would be good. Spitting something out of chat GPT is not going to teach me a lot.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, so here’s a question that I had for both of you guys. And that is, you know, as we talk about all of this, we talk about where things are going on the college sides of things and AI and even what’s happening in a lot of high schools right now. And we talk about the trades and we all agree that we need more of. And most trade colleges are either private or there’s, in other words, there’s an ability to invest in those. Do you feel like if people have the ability to invest in trades… you know, not as going to them, but money-wise investing in them, is that a good investment right now? There’s not a lot of those are publicly traded. No, there’s not. Will there be, I guess, is another question.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, wait, take a step back. Why not have more of the colleges like CU? I’m talking state colleges have more involvement with the trades.
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s just not the way they think. They’re not going to set up.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I know that. Thank you, Jordan.
SPEAKER 16 :
I don’t think that’ll ever change.
SPEAKER 05 :
I’m saying, what if they try to think a little bit more with the market rather than above it?
SPEAKER 16 :
That would be a good idea. But you go into a college, they move very slowly. You have all these tenured professors. In philosophy and art history and so on, you don’t have somebody in plumbing. That’s right. No, you’re right. I don’t think you have a course in plumbing at CU.
SPEAKER 05 :
Maybe they should hire somebody, but go ahead.
SPEAKER 08 :
And or will you see, and this is a question for you, Jordan, will you see companies now come out and say, wait a minute, we’ve got a really good mousetrap. We can teach the trades very well. We’ve got the systems in place to make this happen. We can do this on a larger scale nationwide. Let’s go public. Will you see some of that?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, the history of private education in the trade is not very good in many cases.
SPEAKER 08 :
I know.
SPEAKER 16 :
There’s been all kinds of scandals. Remember all those private colleges that were charging outrageous amounts, making all kinds of promises, and not really coming through. And a lot of them were closed down, actually, because they were just taping people’s money and not really giving them the skills. So it’s an industry that does not have a particularly good track record of reputation in this particular area. We need it. But I’m saying where they are right now, they’ve got a long way to go.
SPEAKER 08 :
To me, it seems like a huge opportunity for people that may have that ability. Take Elon Musk, for example, where he looks at this and says, wait a minute, if I could create this sort of system, these colleges that I could go coast to coast on and create that particular model, I mean, honestly, Jordan, why not?
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, yeah, and really quick here, not even just training, Jordan, new people to come into a field. Let’s auto mechanics. Auto mechanics, for instance. There’s always something new coming out, a new kind of car, a new way to take care of a car, new electronics. Okay, so if you’ve got a school in an area, that you know teaches auto mechanics obviously you’re teaching the newbies but also every new thing that comes out from say i don’t know volvo whatever they come to you and you can teach that now you can have all the mechanics in the area come to you for a quick course i mean and there’s there’s microcosms of what andy’s talking about in the industry but not and i’m with you jordan not near large scale enough to to meet the demand right right right no i agree and
SPEAKER 16 :
Things are changing in many areas. Think of what’s going on in health care. All the changes that are going on. And artificial intelligence is driving a lot of these changes. It’s hard to keep up with so many changes and updates happening all the time. So it’s a big race. And then you have these companies putting hundreds of billions of dollars into these data centers. So we’re just at the beginning of this kind of revolution of artificial intelligence and
SPEAKER 08 :
new dollars being created a new drugs being created and new processes new energy all kind of things in some ways it’s very exciting i think you need fewer people well and i think this is where for the listening depending upon you and your job said or the folks that you know our family members and so on i i’ve been telling people uh… now for several months first after you know we talk here on a monthly basis jordan that depending upon your job for example if you’re a paralegal and you’re really just doing a bunch of research and things like that in the office that you’re in, I would either be honing my skills and trying to get more and pass the bar and do other things or go find another job because your job is limited at this point.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, people who have graduated this year in computer science, in the areas of engineering, things that were almost surely to get a job, have been having a hard time because AI is being used at the beginning levels to do things that were done by recent graduates in many cases.
SPEAKER 08 :
What I find along those lines that I think is extremely interesting is we three have talked about this now for almost a year. We see ahead as to what’s going on. Why aren’t the highly educated individuals at these schools, Jordan, to Andy’s point earlier, knowing the same thing?
SPEAKER 16 :
They’re just not wired that way, I should say. Can you imagine Harvard training plumbers and electricians?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, and I mean even training the kids that are coming out, to your point. So you’ve got a computer science degree. No offense, but you probably ought to tack on something else to that. Otherwise, you’re going to be really hard-pressed to get a job. Or on the university level, is it all about the dollars as long as we get that guy a diploma for what he actually spent his money on? By the way, they don’t even care about that. But at the end of the day, as long as we’re providing what he has spent his money on, do they really care in the end whether that person gets a job or not?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, I mean, part of the way people evaluate colleges is their, not only graduation rate, but the success of their graduates afterwards in a bigger sense. So, I mean, I think they do care. They don’t want their people to get unemployed. And I think the colleges are worried now that they’re turning out all these computer science graduates and so on, who are being replaced by artificial intelligence machines. And we’re just at the beginning stages of this. I mean, you can see the massive data sciences. That’s right.
SPEAKER 05 :
But, Jordan, can the college… I’m really quick. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 16 :
I was just saying, Elon Musk is building a data science center in Tennessee with a million… Square feet. Millions.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right.
SPEAKER 16 :
And, I mean, it was filled with NVIDIA chips. I mean, it’s just hard to imagine the power of something like that and who that’s going to replace. Just staggering. And that’s one of many.
SPEAKER 05 :
Jordan, I totally agree with you. I was just going to say, can a college be blamed, though, if a bunch of people stupidly want to get degrees in shrinking fields? I mean, it’s not the college’s fault. Even though they look bad with the hiring that comes out of there.
SPEAKER 16 :
They do look bad. And people look into that. And I think… To some extent, people are being more cautious about going to college and taking on the debt, you know, without a prospect of paying it back or having it be a huge burden for 30 years. There’s definitely people who are more cautious now than in the past who just kind of blindly go to college no matter what.
SPEAKER 05 :
One last question, just from me. Could we see more colleges or private colleges, like John is saying, instead of teaching so much fields, teaching skills? OK, in other words, a skill and, you know, a series of skills, because you may have somebody. There are a lot of jobs that actually require four or five skills and then you’re much better at it. But you don’t need the whole four to eight year degree in that field. You’re actually much better.
SPEAKER 16 :
You mean trades? Well, let’s just use the trades as the colleges are teaching skills now, but they tend to be in the mind, not with their hands.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, no, and I would say the trades is a better example just because that’s where I think the money is going. But you could even say writing skills. You could say, but you could say auto mechanic skills, you know.
SPEAKER 16 :
They do teach writing skills. They do not teach auto mechanic skills. You are right. Anything else with your hands. The only thing you do with your hands in college is athletics, maybe.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, that’s about it. All right. That is a fast hour, as always, Jordan. I’ll honor your time. I’m combining breaks to make it a little easier for you. How do folks get a hold of you before I let you go?
SPEAKER 16 :
They can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com. I get emails from folks all the time. I’m always glad to help.
SPEAKER 08 :
Always a joy. Jordan, thank you. We’ll talk to you next month. All right. Thank you, Bob. Appreciate you very much. Have a great rest of your day. Golden Eagle Financial coming up next. Now, a lot of things where it might be personal to you where you have no idea even the investment in gold that Jordan was talking about. You don’t even know where to start. Guess what? Golden Eagle Financial, Al Smith, does. Contact him today. Just go to klzradio.com.
SPEAKER 07 :
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SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
Now back to Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right, that’s it for this first hour. Always goes by fast. Again, you can reach out to Jordan Goodman if you have specific questions. You can even send me a question. I can get that off to Jordan as well. If you’ve got something specific you’d like some information on. One thing we didn’t get a chance to get into is Jordan has a lot of tips on how you can save money when it comes to credit cards or find the best one that works for you in regards to rewards and so on. He’s got a lot of resources that way as well, moneyanswers.com. Myself and Andy, we’ll be back in a moment. Two more hours coming your way. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you. I’m a rich guy
