In this week’s episode, journey into the realm of depression and learn valuable strategies to conquer this prevalent mental health issue. Angie Austin and her guest, Kenza Haddock, explore the impacts of depression on families while offering evidence-based methods to uplift spirits and initiate recovery. Listen in for tips ranging from improving morning routines, maintaining a positive inner dialogue, to setting boundaries with loved ones. Whether you’re seeking advice for yourself or supporting someone else, this episode is a beacon of encouragement and actionable steps.
SPEAKER 01 :
Welcome to The Good News with Angie Austin. Now, with The Good News, here’s Angie.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello there, it’s Angie Austin and Kenza Haddock, and we are talking today about depression. How is that good news? Well, welcome to the good news, and it will be good news because Kenza knows how to help. She works with people every day on different issues like anxiety, depression, relationships, raising kids, etc. But we’ve also talked to her in the past about her book, The Ex-Muslim’s Guide to Christianity. Welcome back, Kenza.
SPEAKER 05 :
Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited, and this topic is huge.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, depression, and it’s something you suffered from when you were – you didn’t even know about Christianity. It’s just such a fascinating story how the Lord just kind of came to you, and the depression lifted. You became a Christian, and you hadn’t been around the Christian faith at all as a Muslim before. But I just kind of want to start because we were talking about our kids in the break. I’ve got one leaving for a Christian university on a volleyball scholarship. I’ve got my son who runs his business. He started when he was 12, and he is in business school at the University of Colorado, and he just purchased a house, which he should be taking over soon. And we just interviewed one of the football players from the team, apparently, to move in with him. He’s looking for roommates. And I’m thrilled that he’s buying a house at his age. We helped him a little, you know, because he can’t get a loan yet. He’s only 20. But he saved up for the down payment, and he’s ready to roll. And then I’ve got one in high school. But your kids are little, right? Yes.
SPEAKER 05 :
They are. They’re little. And they were, well, one of them was surprised that summer is going to come to an end in just maybe a month or so, at least for the school year. And so I was like, yeah, you know, summer is not forever. And I couldn’t believe it. I was just a couple minutes ago looking at their school supply list. And I’m like, I cannot believe it just went by so fast.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, I know you’ve done it before, but I recommend going for the school supplies now because if you wait too long, it is complete chaos. I remember going to Walmart like a couple of days before school started, and there’s like arguing parents with their kids, and a lot of stuff is gone, and everything’s like milled through, and then they’re arguing about, you know, I’m not getting made in that backpack. You know, you got a new backpack last year. And, oh, it’s completely, yeah. So go early because I was there the other day picking something up, and they had stocked all of their school supplies. So my daughter didn’t need a ton, you know, for college because they’re so heavy on the computers. But I’ve been buying all her dorm stuff and some of the dorm stuff’s out. And she goes a month early because of her sports. So go early to get your school supplies.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, yes. I like that. And, you know, I have told parents, listen, to help you even put an extra guardrail against burnout and just, like, feeling that there’s just so much going on at one time. You know, when kids start school and they’re going through that adjustment and you’re going through that adjustment, just knock it out right now. This way it’s one thing off of your list. I look at it as it’s one extra guardrail to keep me from going into that burnout mode because come August, I mean, it is go.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and I like to make it fun, too. Like maybe say we’ll stop by Chick-fil-A or if they like pancakes, you know, we’ll grab breakfast. Like the other day, we all went to church together. My husband was working on projects, so I went with the kids. And then afterwards, we went shopping for things they needed for school. Like my son only needed, like, socks, you know, but the girls needed, you know, more things. Yeah. We did that, and then we went out for lunch because my son, for him, anything involving lunch is, you know, great, and they love pancakes and Waffle House. And so it kind of makes it fun to do, like, oh, we’re going to get school supplies and, you know, go to your favorite, you know, lunch spot or whatever. Now, in terms of you saying, talking about burnout, in your counseling, you could tell us a little bit about that as a licensed professional counselor, your work with others, you experience a lot of people dealing with depression, right? And you said that we can overcome that day to day depression or that sense of heaviness, or I call it like the gray cloud over your head. And then we want to stop that before it becomes clinical depression. So what’s the difference between the two?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, for sure. So there’s a huge difference. Clinical depression is when we start losing, we start feeling like we have a sense of hopelessness. We start, It goes over a two-week period where we feel hopeless. We have self-deprecating thoughts that are not in check. Things like I’m ugly, I’m not good enough, I’m so far behind in life where I used to be. Just things like that that can oppress us even further. Depression is also when we lose sight or we even lose – ability to want to go out with friends or we want to isolate. Yes, yes, for sure. The enemy wants to isolate us. And I tell people he wants to isolate you because there is a power in numbers. And so you want to make sure you don’t let it get to that point. And one of the biggest things I let people know is is be intentional about your friendships. In our social media world, I think it can give us the illusion that we have all of these friends, and that’s fine if that person does. However, nothing can substitute for intentional meetups and intentional friendships. And what I mean by that is, especially like for mamas who have kids who are going back to school right now especially, Just set up coffee dates. Make time to say, hey, can you meet up for coffee on Tuesday? I know as a mom and I know as someone who is busy as well. Time can get ahead of us. And so if we are not intentional about saying, hey, and reach out to two to three people that, you know, they don’t have to be close friends. Hey, let’s meet up for coffee on Tuesday. If you don’t set it up, it’s not going to happen. And also do regular check-ins with people. Hey, how are you doing? Thinking about you. Or, hey, how is it going? You know, long time no talk. And I would also say make sure it’s with multiple friends, not just one, because when we just rely on that one person, or even if it’s a mutual friendship, it can become… risky for and I hate to use this word so plainly but it is idolatry where that person becomes a go-to for everything there is a risk to where now we’re putting our sense of security in that person and it creeps in little by little it doesn’t happen at one point or in one meeting
SPEAKER 04 :
that’s interesting. I never thought about it like that, but I think too, that, you know, to have a group of, um, Christian friends, people that you count on like-minded that you can turn to for advice, that that is really beneficial. And I, um, I really like, I mean, going to people for advice or counsel that think like, I mean, it’s interesting because I don’t know if I ever told you, it’s my best, interestingly, my best friends from Iran. And, uh, And my stepmom is from Iran. And they both give me really good advice. And neither of them are Christians. But what’s interesting is that my best friend, who is definitely not a fan of faith in general because she lived in Iran and she saw a lot of religious strife. And so she is kind of almost, I would say, like anti-religion. But what’s interesting is she leans on me for my moral compass, for my ability to forgive, for my sound advice. and that she turns to me above all others. And I think my Christian faith shines through to her in that these are qualities that she likes in me, even though she doesn’t necessarily associate them with Christianity. She just thinks they’re my traits.
SPEAKER 05 :
Does that make sense? Yeah, no, absolutely. Yes. Yes, for sure. No, I love that. And it’s good for it to be a mutual friendship. I think a lot of times what leads to burnout and what I have seen with people is they are the sounding board for a lot of people, but they don’t have someone they can turn to or a few, you know, two, three friends that they can turn to. And that’s what can lead to burnout. that clinical depression and, and this is how, you know, you’re, you’re on the verge of burnout and it’s verge of burnout versus like, or I’m sorry, verge of burnout slash like clinical depression. That’s when like you start feeling numb, you start feeling like empty. Um, you start experiencing like insomnia or hypersomnia. Now, obviously clinical depression can only be diagnosed by a provider, but what you want to ask yourself is, Hey, where is the leak? Like what am I paying attention to so much that is keeping me from operating from a place of rest? Because God’s word says that his yoke is easy and his burden is light, right? And so if we are operating in over-function mode, And I want to preface with this also. I’m not saying we’re not going to go through seasons where it is more difficult. For example, you know, if you’re taking care of a sick family member in a demanding season, ask the Lord to give you grace to overcome that. Now, God is also not an enabler, right? So I’ve had a lot of patients who would come see me, and on top of their priorities and There are so many leaks, if you think of a boat, where, oh, I need to go rescue this friend because her marriage is having a hard time. Well, doesn’t the Lord say that we need to do that? I need to go and be there for this other person. And so now they don’t have enough hours in the day to tend to everything. So it’s really good to ask the Lord, Lord, Please reprioritize my life according to your will for it.
SPEAKER 04 :
In terms of depression, when you have people come in to your – you mentioned that isolation is an issue with depression and that gray cloud feeling, that emptiness inside. Besides making plans with others and not isolating, what else do you ask your patients, your clients to do to get out of that? For me, I like journaling. That helps calm my mind because I get that gray cloud in the morning because I don’t want to get out of bed. I am not a morning person.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s a good question. So number one, what I would say is pay attention to your morning routine. And when you first wake up in the morning, make sure that you don’t just wake up and start checking your emails or checking your phone or literally you want to make praise part of. you’re that first 10 minutes in the morning. And here’s why, from a clinical standpoint, when you’re praising God and, and I’m not saying just like, I’m not trying to sound hyper spiritual. I mean, bring back to mind things that God is doing for you or has done for you. Because what that does, as you remember how God has been good to you and thank him for that, your body starts releasing serotonin, which is the actual chemical that fights depression. Do that for 10 minutes and, As you do that, also from a spiritual perspective, it says in the Bible that God inhabits the praises of his people. And so where God’s spirit is, you’re not going to be feeling anxious and the enemy is going to have to flee from a spiritual perspective because he doesn’t like an environment where God is being praised or God is being glorified. So that’s the first thing I would say. Start your morning right.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay, okay. So start your morning right. So start off with praise for the serotonin. Okay.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes. Second, and that is one of the biggest contributors to depression is our monologue, the way we talk to ourselves. We have to watch the way we talk to ourselves.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, isn’t that the truth? Okay. We’re going to take a break. Inner monologue. Start your day right. Do not… just get into your phone and start checking messages. Spend 10 minutes, even five, whatever you can do to praise first. And maybe for you, like for me, I’m probably going to journal. I’m going to try that rather than get distracted too easily. All right. If you were just joining us, this is Angie Austin with the good news. We will be right back with Ken Zahadik and Angie Austin with more on how to battle depression. We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
Hello there, friend. Angie Austin and Kenza Haddock. Kenza is a counselor. She is also an author and a mother and a wife. Her book is The Ex-Muslim’s Guide to Christianity. We’ve talked about that before, but because she’s a licensed professional counselor, I said to Kenza, let’s start doing regular segments on things that you deal with with your patients, your clients every day. And we are starting with depression today. We’ve covered a little on anxiety and often those come hand in hand. And Kenza, you said, first of all, get social, do not isolate. And then number two, Start your morning right. You know, start with praise. Do not get right into your phone and get into, you know, all of the notes and the e-mails and the text. Start with praise, whether it be prayer or singing. My aunt reads her Bible and sings. I like journaling. So there we go. That’s the start. What’s next?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, absolutely. 2 Corinthians 10.5 talks about casting down everything. Right. So we have to leave no room for the enemy to wiggle his way in. So we have to pay attention to even how we talk to ourselves, like. you know, you’re an idiot, you’re this, you’re that, or I’m this, I’m that. Make sure you pay attention. And I know we can’t capture every single thought because that was a question I was asked by my patients. They’re like, oh, it’s just so much. Well, you know what? Start with focus on like two or three thoughts. And whenever you catch them, make sure that you’re ready because you see, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal. They’re mighty through God. to the pulling down of stronghold. And we have a weapon, and that’s the sword of the spirit. And so if you start feeling like you’re condemning yourself, just make sure before this whole battle starts, or even in the midst of the battle, go to God’s word. For example, saying I’m ugly to myself, instead, whenever I hear that word say, I was made in the image of God, I’m not good enough, you can say it’s written, I was chosen by God. Because of his love for me. And I know in the beginning, here’s what happens. In the beginning, these – and they’re not just words of affirmations. They really do work. It’s just they feel cheesy in the beginning because here’s why. Your brain, the way it’s designed, it’s going to reject anything that doesn’t sound correct. And sometimes we can hold on to faulty thinking. If you think of your brain as a vault, and if you’re – starting to put truth in your brain at first it’s going to reject it’s gonna that’s why it feels weird if uh somebody struggles with low self-esteem for them to receive a compliment it’s like they feel uneasy that’s because they don’t they contradict how they truly feel about themselves and it takes time to build that and put it in in that vault if that makes sense
SPEAKER 04 :
So we’ve got socialize, make plans with friends, don’t isolate, start your morning right, don’t just start reading texts, praise, worship, singing, reading the Bible, journaling, and then that inner monologue, that positive self-talk, get rid of the negative self-talk. Okay, keep going.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, absolutely. And another thing that I saw that leads to depression is not being willing to receive the forgiveness that God has given us. Oh. then this usually gets triggered around holidays when we’re spending time with family and, you know, there’s stress around that sometimes. And, you know, you see, I’m just throwing a name out there. I don’t know this person. I’m just throwing a name. Like let’s just say Aunt Deborah, right, starts making comments about how you were nine years ago. Well, you don’t have to internalize what that person says immediately. make sure you set boundaries around that person if you don’t, or if they’re hurting you at that point. Because a lot of times there is a saying that I’ve heard my patients say. It’s like if it’s, regardless if that person is hurtful, if blood is thicker than water. And what I say is spirit is thicker than blood. And so you don’t have to subject yourself to somebody saying, who is hurtful to you just because they’re family. You would not believe, Angie, how many people come back from like holidays spent with family and they spend the next, four to six weeks trying to process through the trauma they just went through. No.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes. That is horrible. My friend always says don’t give people free rent in your head. The people that care about you can often be very negative because they don’t want you to be hurt. They’re like, oh, Kenza, don’t leave your faith. Oh, Kenza, don’t become a counselor. You’re going to be talking to people who have problems everywhere. Kenza, don’t write a book. Nobody buys books anymore. Kenza, don’t go out and speak because you’re going to embarrass your family because you’re an ambassador for Christ right now. And if you renounced Islam, your family isn’t going to like it. You know what I mean? People care about you, so they’re like naysayers because they don’t want you to be hurt, but they’re like putting shackles on you that keep you from experiencing life to its fullest.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I’ve heard – people may comment about people’s ways and it really affects them. And I say, Hey, set boundaries. And that can be a conversation all in itself, how to set boundaries in truth and in love. And we can do examples of that. And also how to just set guardrails because really scripture says to guard your heart. And so that doesn’t mean you need to put a cement wall around your heart. It means, understand that you are a person of dignity and worth, and you don’t have to subject yourself to somebody who is constantly hurting you, especially if you’ve told the person, hey, the way you comment about my weight really hurts me, and so I would appreciate it if you don’t do that again. Yet, in response to that, they say, oh, I was just joking. You always say things so personally. That’s just an example I hear a lot in the practice, and so… After that, if that person continues or even makes fun of your boundary, then you have to you have to set a boundary around being around them.
SPEAKER 04 :
I, I have. seen, like, as a woman, you know, I know the issues that can cause, you know, regarding weight and your self-esteem if people make comments, and my husband’s been thin his whole life. He’s 6’6″, and he’ll say things to my older daughter, the volleyball player, like, you can jump higher if you eat better, and you lose, you know, maybe 10 pounds. I’m like, uh-uh, like, no, and he’s like, well, you know, she’s just not making good choices, and then it’s my fault, you know, if she gets an eating disorder because I said something, and I’m like, How can he not understand this from me? How can he not understand that this is not a good idea, you know, for him to do this? But he doesn’t. He does not understand that it’s not helpful to her to have him say these things. And I… I think he does it less now because actually she is in really good shape and she does work out really hard and she does lift a lot. So I don’t think she has any weight issues, but he definitely didn’t feel that it was an issue for him to tell her. And I’m like, no, no, actually it is an issue for you to tell her that it’s a big issue. But yeah, I couldn’t get heard in that arena. Yeah. He’d be so irritated if he knew I was talking about this. I couldn’t get heard in that arena, you know, regarding – you know, not talking about her weight and, you know, working out. I don’t mind talking about good food choices if it has nothing to do with weight, if it has to do with the fact that, hey, you’re on scholarship, your team is paying you your tuition. So it’s like a job. And so because you’re an athlete and you’re competing, you have to eat properly. Now that I’m okay with. But if it’s said not and it has to be said, it sort of has nothing to do with a number on the scale in my personal opinion.
SPEAKER 05 :
Absolutely. Absolutely. And to your point, a lot of times people, or I would say maybe half of the times, people don’t realize that what they’re saying is not helpful because they don’t have a frame of reference of what being wounded in that category looks like.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 05 :
And so they just talk. And so I’m just trying to help. Right. I’m just trying to help.
SPEAKER 04 :
It makes me giggle because it is so ridiculous. Like anything you say about someone’s weight, I’m just trying to help. Like it just makes me giggle because that’s the last thing you’re doing is helping. You’re not helping.
SPEAKER 05 :
Oh, my goodness. It’s not. It’s really not. And it’s – And it does take a lot of sharpening on the recipient’s end, and it takes a lot for them to be able to say, hey, when you said this, this way, and honestly, I always encourage it because you don’t want resentment to build up. Now, if you know that person to be someone who minimizes or someone who will make fun of you, I would say it’s just, take it and see if, if maybe set aside some time and talk to them privately because some people don’t do well when confronted publicly. Oh no.
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, I totally agree with you there. Totally agree.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. And that’s what I see. Like pent up emotions will rise up and they’ll become very resentful and then they’ll just go off on the person. And I’m like, no, you know, we are called to set boundaries. We are called to speak truth. But in order for that love component to be there, you have to make sure you do it before resentment builds in.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s a good point. All right, so depression, when you want to not get to the point of clinical depression, socialize, don’t isolate. Start your morning off right with praise, not on your phone immediately. That dopamine really helps get created while you’re doing, you know, your praise, singing, Bible, journaling. And then number three, self-talk, positive self-talk. Get rid of that inner dialogue that may be negative and then set boundaries with negative people. And then I find exercise helps. I especially like to do it with my friends, you know, because… it helps me to work out with someone else. But I also feel like even if I just do it by myself and I watch a show while I’m working out, that also can be really beneficial.
SPEAKER 05 :
It makes sense because exercise, what it does is it operates both sides of your brain. It’s called bilateral stimulation. And what that does is because the right side of our brain holds emotion, exercise forces those emotions to get processed, even though you’re not talking them out. That’s why you feel better as you’re exercising. And I think, you know, nowadays we’re used to typing and everything. And I was just having this conversation with someone the other day. I said, we’re missing out a lot on not writing because writing activates the brain’s neuropathways to be able to process through emotions. because it activates both sides of your brain. And so when you’re going left to right, left to right, that’s what it does. So, yeah, I mean, and for sure set guardrails around, give yourself some room. A lot of times we’re like, go, go, go, until literally we lay in bed and we’re like, okay, I made it one more day. I don’t think we’re supposed to live like that. I get it happens. I understand. It’s just that’s not supposed to be the fulfilled life that we’re supposed to have. Busyness does not equate. success in life at all.
SPEAKER 04 :
It does not. Well, I’m going to try some of these things that you just recommended in terms of like getting out of bed in the morning because I’m not a huge fan of getting out in the morning. And so I’m going to try some of these things and see how it works for me. So then when we talk next week, I’ll have a better idea. All right. So give people the best way to reach you, Kenza.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes, it’s www.kensahaddock.com.
SPEAKER 04 :
Excellent, kensahaddock.com. Such a pleasure, my friend. I get such a kick out of you. I feel like if we lived in the same town, we’d be meeting for coffee ourselves. So I can’t wait to hear about your kids starting school and to keep getting to know each other better. Thank you so much, Kenza.
SPEAKER 01 :
Thank you. Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
