SPEAKER 01 : 0:00

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SPEAKER 02 : 0:30

welcome to the good news with angie austin now with the good news here’s angie

SPEAKER 06 : 0:39

Hey there, friend. Auntie Austin here with the good news. A pleasure to have joining us, Jackie Calloway. She is the author of Love That Would Not Let Me Go. Welcome, Jackie. Thank you. Now, I know you listen to the program and you are friends with a friend of mine. And she brought your books to me. And I thought we’d start here with Love That Would Not Let Me Go. And I know she calls you Mrs. Jackie. What do you prefer?

SPEAKER 04 : 1:05

Jackie is fine.

SPEAKER 05 : 1:07

She is so cute. She sent me her phone number, and it was Mrs. Jackie.

SPEAKER 04 : 1:12

Yes, she’s like a daughter to me.

SPEAKER 05 : 1:15

I love her and her children have the best manners. We’re talking about Monique, who’s been on the show, Davis, who’s been on the show several times.

SPEAKER 06 : 1:23

So just tell us a little bit about you and then we’ll get into the book. So I know you love the Lord and you help people in terms of faith and counseling. So tell us a little about you, Jackie.

SPEAKER 04 : 1:38

Well, I used to be into broadcasting years ago. I worked for PBS, had a local program here in Denver titled Aisha, and that’s Swahili for life. And back in the 70s, I wanted to bring positive influences and positive faces to the screen and allow people… to know what the African American community was doing. And so I really wanted to put before our children and our young people positive images and try to help them and encourage them to be and do all that they could, be all that God was calling them to be. And so that basically was what I was doing in the 70s. And I was married for 28 years. My husband and I were separated and divorced for seven years. And after seven years of divorce because of infidelity and drugs and different things, the Lord miraculously reconciled us first to himself and then to one another.

SPEAKER 05 : 3:29

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER 04 : 3:31

And after that, we had 24 years of a beautiful, wonderful, God-filled marriage. and just tried to help other couples not step on the same landmines that we did in our old marriage.

SPEAKER 06 : 3:52

I love that. So you’re helping other couples to either avoid that or to reconcile.

SPEAKER 04 : 3:58

Absolutely. Or both. We saw so many reconciliations during that 24-year period of time.

SPEAKER 06 : 4:09

That’s wonderful. You start in the book talking about, that’s quite a legacy too for you to leave behind, quite a wonderful passion or calling for you. You start on chapter one, the spirit that changes our lives. Let’s kind of just work through some of the major points that you make in the book, Love That Would Not Let Me Go.

SPEAKER 04 : 4:30

Okay. I really wanted to express well first of all the lord asked me to write that book oh i love it at that time i was like how do you do that and um he told me though just write what i have done for you and whatever you need when you get there it’ll be there oh wow and he was so as i shouldn’t say was He is so faithful to his word to do everything that he says that he will do. And so as I was writing the book, just writing everything, really chronicling the things, the events that happened. And my husband, I asked him, I said, do you have a problem with this?” And he said, no, because I know you’re going to tell the truth. And so as I was counseling a young lady one day, the Lord spoke to me while she was talking and said, ask her to help you. And so when she finished talking, I said, the Lord told me to ask you to help me. And she said, help you do what? I said, I don’t know. What do you do? She says, I’m an editor with the Make-A-Wish Foundation. So I said, well, I’m writing a book. And she said, I was going to tell you you should write a book. So I would love to help you edit the book. So there was my editor. It was just one thing after another that he provided. And when I got ready to publish, get the book published, excuse me, my daughter said, you should contact my roommate that I had in college. Her name is Kim. And I said, okay, she’s a publisher. in dc so i called kim and she said well i don’t do those kind of books i have published books with td jakes and miles monroe and those are the types of books we do she said but because it’s you send it to me send the manuscript to me and we’ll go from there Well, she loved it, published the book, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER 06 : 7:34

Oh, that’s so neat. I love that. And I also love that your daughter was such a great person and that she knew you, you know, the woman knew you, that she was willing to go the extra mile for the two of you.

SPEAKER 04 : 7:46

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So I wanted to really… in the book emphasize that through Christ all things are possible, and there’s nothing too hard for Him, and that forgiveness is a requirement. And if we do not seek the Holy Spirit to help us to forgive, we will be the losers.

SPEAKER 05 : 8:23

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER 06 : 8:24

Mm-hmm. So I just I’m still just it’s mind boggling. I mean, not many people are able to after such a long marriage, the 28 years of marriage and then that seven year separation, you know, and being divorced to reconcile through that and then, you know, to work with others to bring them together. I mean, it’s really a beautiful testimony. So are you still doing this? Obviously, people probably contact you regarding love that would not let me go with the book. But are you still counseling people?

SPEAKER 04 : 8:58

I’m still counseling people. As you know, my husband passed two and a half years ago. He passed. And so he is with Jesus now. But in that book, he’s the one that really sold the book because he told me, I want you to feel comfortable in telling it all. And there was a lot to tell. He was not just a… adulterer he was a serial adulterer there were many women and there was drugs and there were lies it was a lot to forgive but at the same time we have a we have a big forgiving God and he asked me to partner with him for my husband’s salvation. And that was the whole purpose of my actually staying for 28 years because his salvation was at stake.

SPEAKER 06 : 10:29

Well, I bet that gives you peace of mind knowing that that was all taken care of when he did pass.

SPEAKER 04 : 10:35

Absolutely. Excuse me. I cannot tell you what a changed man he was when we married the second time. It was the most miraculous transformation that I have ever seen, because I was not for getting back with him. When he came to me and said, Jack, you know I love you and we ought to be together. And I said, listen, talk to the hand because the head is not listening to this. But it took the Lord. The Holy Spirit spoke to me and said, I want you to start listening to Ronnie Calloway. And I said, no, I won’t listen to him. You know he’s a liar. You know I can’t trust him. And he said, I’m not asking you to trust him right now. I’m asking you to trust me with all your heart. Lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge me, and I will direct your path.

SPEAKER 05 : 11:59

Beautiful.

SPEAKER 06 : 12:01

yeah i i um i i it is hard to wrap my head around the forgiveness but i’m a huge fan of forgiveness it’s like probably like my calling to speak about and to be an example i think of forgiveness it does come easier to me i think be than other people but i do believe it’s definitely a blessing from the lord because i don’t know why i can get such a sense of peace and move on from things and There have been a few occasions in the past, particularly with my father, who was estranged from our family for about 35 years and who changed his phone number so we couldn’t call him. He was a professor. It wasn’t like he was living on the streets. I was a straight-A student, but I couldn’t call him. Just his… drinking and the abuse of my mom and you know my brothers and the situation they ended up in because he brought drugs into our home but when he called me um after many years of us not speaking many many i mean i hadn’t really seen him since i was i mean not much since i was 12 and um And, you know, as a teenager, I don’t think I really saw him at all. And then in my 20s, I mean, it was very, very infrequent that I tried a few times to reconcile. Anyway, the second that he called me, I knew I’d forgiven him because I just when I heard his voice and when I responded to him, I just there was nothing. There was no anger. There was no there was nothing. I mean, nothing, nothing that was negative. Yeah, it was definitely, you know, the Lord for sure. Jackie, I want to have you come back every week for a while as we go through, you know, your book and we can kind of help people that may not, you know, be going to counseling or may need some guidance in their relationship. And again, the book is Love That Would Not Let Me Go, Jackie Calloway with a C. And I think it’s a real blessing that you listen to the program. So I appreciate you reaching out to me, Jackie.

SPEAKER 04 : 13:55

Yes, I do listen to you and I enjoy so much the different guests. That you have on and your continued testimony. Because I didn’t know this part about your father.

SPEAKER 06 : 14:11

Well, thank you. Yes, we did have like about eight good years after that. So the kids got to know him. They met him for the first time after we reconciled. So Jackie Calloway, we’ll talk to you next week. Thank you, Jackie. Thank you. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER 03 : 14:30

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SPEAKER 06 : 15:22

Sydney, Nebraska is listening to the mighty 670 KLT Denver. Hey there, friend. Angie Austin here with the good news. Really pleased to introduce Lynn S. Wagaman. Lynn is the author of Standing for God in America, How Christians Can Make a Difference in Today’s Society. Welcome, Lynn. Welcome.

SPEAKER 07 : 15:44

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER 06 : 15:45

You are welcome. All right. One of the quotes at the top of the information that I have about you says that, quote, a silent Christian is an ineffective Christian. I love that.

SPEAKER 07 : 15:58

Well, and it’s so true. Unless we speak up, our voice isn’t heard. And those that don’t follow our beliefs and God’s word. They have the only voice that’s being heard in our country, and it’s so important that we speak up.

SPEAKER 06 : 16:10

Yeah, I think a lot of times we’re shamed into silence or told because sometimes our political beliefs do align with our religious beliefs. And so I think a lot of my friends who aren’t Christians and maybe have different political beliefs than I do, they try to shame me into silence or label me. And, you know, lump me in with a big group of people that they believe if I am a Christian and if I am conservative, then I’m a certain way. So I tend to sometimes, I definitely think in my extended family that there have been occasions where they’ve kind of tried to embarrass me into silence.

SPEAKER 07 : 16:49

And, you know, we don’t want to come across as being mean or uncaring or non-accepting. And so we avoid those conversations because we don’t want to sound like that we are criticizing. We don’t want to make people upset. We want people to like us. And so we either sugarcoat it, we don’t speak everything that we know, or we are just silent. And that’s not what God calls us to do. That was not the example that Jesus gave us in his time on earth. And so I think as we look at the scripture and say, what does God expect of us as Christians? We gain a little more confidence to speak out when we’re speaking truth. And, you know, you can’t argue with truth. You can argue with an opinion, but you can’t argue with truth. And so when we’re equipped with truth, then we can speak it. We can do it in love. We can do it in acceptance because Jesus spoke that way. But we do have to speak. And it’s so important.

SPEAKER 06 : 17:48

Well, let’s give it give everyone an overview of standing for God in America. If they would pick up the book and and they say, you know, why should I read this? What am I going to learn? What would you tell them?

SPEAKER 07 : 17:58

Sure. Well, the book was started as an idea to say, you know, if we are going to make a difference, we need to have a firm understanding of what God’s word says so that we can be speaking truth. And I think a lot of times we don’t know what that truth is. And so my purpose in writing it, my husband encouraged me to write it to say, use your background in teaching your background in Bible teaching and say, what, you know, how can I get this information to Christians to empower them? The first part of the book is kind of a background of where we are and where our country came from, because I believe that people are trying to change the perspective of how our country was founded. They’re trying to take God out of our history. And when we really look at our founding fathers and what they wrote, what they believed, we see that everything that they did, most of our founding fathers were strong, spiritual, godly men. And no, we’re not perfect. No one is perfect. They were not perfect, but they were founded in scripture. A lot of their writings, you see them writing scripture. And so I’ve spent a little bit of time kind of talking about that, talking about what does God have for our country? Does he care about America? Is it right for us to be asking for his blessings? and kind of getting grounded in that. Part two takes six of the main topics that I feel are foundational for Christians to have a good biblical knowledge of, and those are morality, leadership, marriage and family, wealth and resources, protection in the military, and then social issues such as education, welfare, race, and immigration, things like that. So I kind of lump all those social issues into one chapter. And really lots and lots of scripture references kind of showing what does scripture tell us? What is God’s ideas regarding those topics? And then part three is how do we take that knowledge and apply it and make a difference in our society? And it starts in our home. It starts within us individually, having a solid faith, a solid understanding of spending time with God, spending time in his words, spending time in prayer. And then it moves to our families, and then it moves into our communities, and then out from there. And so that’s kind of the format for the book. I’ve had people tell me I could have written a whole book on any one chapter, and that’s so true. But I kind of look at it as something to whet people’s appetite, to make them want to know more and get them started. It’s not by any means an exhaustive discussion on any of these topics. but enough to kind of give you some speaking points, some knowledge, and get you searching for more answers. And I always refer people back to the Bible because that is our source.

SPEAKER 06 : 20:52

Well, you know, you say in the book that Christians are, you know, confused, frustrated, maybe even angry, depressed, disappointed at what’s happening in our country. And what do you discuss in terms of the biggest issues for people of faith in the book?

SPEAKER 07 : 21:11

Well, I believe that we can tell what really bothers people of faith when we see what they’re willing to stand up for or stand up against. And right now we see anything that’s affecting our families. Christians are going to really stand up and say, okay, enough is enough. This is my line in the sand. Don’t mess with my family. Don’t try to tell me how to raise my children. Don’t try to tell me that gender changes are perfectly acceptable. And all of these things, you’re going to see families start to say, no, Christians, no, that’s enough. That is not what God’s word tells us. And it’s wrong. The other thing that I think that we see Christians standing up for is is anything that impacts our businesses, our ability to provide for our families. And so economics and things like that, protection against outside influence in our businesses, things like that, you will see people of faith beginning to stand up and speak out. And then finally, anything that affects our ability to practice our faith. And so anything that affects our churches, affects our our freedom of speech and our ability to pray in public or our ability to share our faith and to witness, anything that crosses that line, you’re going to see Christians standing up and speaking out. All of the other topics, global warming or climate change or social issues, you know, Christians just don’t get that involved because it doesn’t really impact their families. And so those things can kind of get, kind of go on their own course and you don’t see Christians speaking out for those, doesn’t mean they’re not important. It just means that we’re focused on things that are impactful in our own personal lives. And I think that’s a good starting point. I mean, we can’t get involved in everything. So finding those things that are most important to us as individuals and to our family is what we can then get a passion about and begin to speak out.

SPEAKER 06 : 23:10

Now, when you talk about the characteristics of a godly leader in the book, why don’t you talk about some of those?

SPEAKER 07 : 23:17

Sure. Well, in the book, I try to give what God’s idea of a godly leader is. And I looked a lot to the people that he selected as leaders. And I look to, obviously, Jesus as an example of a leader. And we’re looking at things like honesty, integrity, generosity, caring for others and being humble. And, you know, we just see that’s so anti what America wants. in a secular view, considers a good leader. In the world, a good leader is somebody that makes a lot of money and has a lot of power. And that’s not what we see in the Bible. We see men that are humble, that are seeking God and are seeking to be just and right and working with people and to be honest in their dealings with people and not have underlying motives and hidden agendas and things. And so As we’re looking for leaders for our country, those are the traits that we need to be looking for in our leaders, men and women that have integrity, that do what they say they’re going to do, and they do it for the right reasons. And it’s important that we really look beyond the words and look at the actions to say, are they living up to what they said that they would do?

SPEAKER 06 : 24:35

I love that. I love that. And I’ve worked for many like servant leaders who I think that that is, you know, how Jesus would lead as well and without the big ego. And I remember one of my bosses helping me make like a demo tape. And my husband’s like, oh, my gosh. I would never have my boss help me with a tape. And it was like just – like on TV, it would be like the best of my news anchoring or whatever or weather when I did weather. And obviously in radio, it would be some of like my best clips. So he’d been in radio for many years and he was helping me to get this gig with this new company he was going to. And so I was newer to radio and he put it together for me and I was so grateful. And my husband was just appalled and I said – You know, I have to tell you that as Christians, I think we work together differently than maybe you do with your company. And that he offered to do this for me. I did not ask him. And he wants to help me. And, you know, I did have a very successful news career like NBC in Los Angeles, Fox in San Diego, Denver at that WB station. Like I did all this before we got married. So. I do like kind of have common sense. And he just couldn’t believe that a boss would lead like that and not lead like with an iron fist and that he’d be so helpful. And I mean, this boss, when I was starting at a different place for his company, we had to go to an outside facility that wasn’t really that great a facility initially. And he would drive like I’d say 45 minutes at 3 a.m. to come help me, you know, to get it was for his company, too. But, you know, like he didn’t have to be there, but he wanted to make sure things went off without a hitch. And my husband just didn’t couldn’t wrap his brain around that. And even like some of his relatives that I’m close to. And he’s like, how did you get so close to, you know, my aunt and my cousins on that side? And then he goes, oh, I know why. Because you’re Christians. I said, exactly.

SPEAKER 07 : 26:27

Well, my dad was a principal of a middle school when I was growing up. And I can remember going and he walking in and the old mimeograph machines that, you know, you have to turn with your hand before the days of copiers. And the toner was so messy. And my dad would be in there fixing the mimeograph machine for the teachers. He was the principal and he was in there being a servant leader, working, getting their copy machine to work for the teachers and saying, can I run some copies for you? You go back and take care of your kids. I’ll make the copies and bring them to you. And he would go out on the playground at recess and play basketball with the guys, with the boys on the play. And that’s how he chose to lead. And it was a servant leadership. And it was such an example to me of somebody that cares about the people that he’s leading and is willing to not ask anybody to do anything that he wasn’t willing to do himself. And that was, to me, just amazing. Christianity and personified. I love it. So how we lead and what we expect from our leaders, and we don’t excuse ungodliness in our leaders, and we look for and we elect godly leaders. And one of the things I talk about in the book, especially as we’re in the election season, and it’s important that we purposefully elect leaders and support those who are godly leaders. And At the same time, God may be calling us to step up and be a leader and to put ourselves out there and say, you know, if I don’t have anybody that I really respect to run for this office and maybe it’s a local office, maybe I’m the one that’s being called to do it. And so the book actually kind of challenges us to step out of our comfort zone a little bit and do things. I’m not a speaker and I’ve never been on radio until the last month. And writing this book has opened some doors of opportunity. that I would have never expected to do and to put myself into. And I tell people, you know, maybe if you don’t see yourself speaking on radio, but maybe you could write a letter to your congressman about something. And so it encourages us to take those baby steps, but also be open for opportunities that God’s going to put in our path to maybe be that leader or to support a leader, because goodness knows they need our support. For those people that are standing up and doing the right thing, They need to know that we as Christians have their back because it can be very lonely.

SPEAKER 06 : 28:55

All right. I want to make sure that people can find you, Lynn. So give us your website.

SPEAKER 07 : 29:00

It’s my name. It’s Lynn Wagaman. It’s L-Y-N-N. Last name is Wagaman, W-O-G-A-M-O-N.com.

SPEAKER 06 : 29:09

Thank you so much. A real blessing to have you on, Lynn.

SPEAKER 07 : 29:11

Thank you so much. Have a great day.

SPEAKER 02 : 29:13

You too. Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.