This episode of Washington Watch tackles the critical issues surrounding the recent assassination of Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA, as we examine the forces fueling political violence in America today. With insights from faith leaders and political analysts, we explore how the church and believers can respond with grace and courage in these trying times. Beyond the headlines, we address the underlying spiritual challenges facing our nation and consider the role of prayer and reflection in sparking a much-needed revival for truth and justice. Join us for a compelling discussion that urges us to stand firm in
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and sound bites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
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Charlie was a giant of his generation, a champion of liberty and an inspiration to millions and millions of people. Our prayers are with his wonderful wife, Eric, and his beautiful children. Fantastic people they are. We miss him greatly, yet I have no doubt that Charlie’s voice and the courage he put into the hearts of countless people, especially young people, will live on.
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Encouraging words from President Trump. He was announcing that he will posthumously award Charlie Kirk with the Medal of Freedom. Of course, as you’ve certainly heard by now, Charlie Kirk, 31 years old, great Christian conservative, was fatally shot during an event yesterday in Utah, leaving behind his wife and two young children. Welcome to this somber September 11th edition of Washington Watch. I’m your host Jody Heiss filling in for Tony Perkins and we thank you so much for tuning in today. Indeed it is a time of sorrow. It’s also a time of soul-searching all across our country. And what’s brought that all about is the tragic loss of Charlie Kirk. He was assassinated while speaking with students. It was an act of violence that certainly has shaken our entire nation. I’ll be joined here in just a moment by the president of Family Research Council, Tony Perkins, who is traveling, and he will reflect on how the church and believers should respond at this point, both with truth and love. And as leftist violence rises in various groups, the SPLC continues to label pro-life groups and conservative organizations like Charlie Kirk’s Turning Point USA as hate groups. So the stakes are high, the stakes for truth and freedom have never been higher. We’ll discuss this more in detail later in the program when I’m joined by Tyler O’Neill, who’s the senior editor at The Daily Signal. Pastor Jack Hibbs will also be joining me with his thoughts on Charlie Kirk’s life and legacy, as well as what this moment means for the church in America and the spiritual condition of our country. All right, certainly it’s a shocking act of violence that many are calling a political act of violence. I think it goes far beyond just a political violence statement. But nonetheless, it stunned the nation as one of the most prominent voices in American conservatism was gunned down in broad daylight. Joining me now is Washington stand reporter Casey Harper to bring us the latest on the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Casey, there’s tons of press conferences, tons of information, investigations still underway, Manhattan underway still. But what can you give us in terms of the latest developments in all of this?
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Yeah, thanks, Jody. A somber episode indeed. It was a tragic and deeply polarizing event. Charlie Kirk, as you said, founder of Turning Point USA and a leading conservative voice, fatally shot yesterday during a live event at Utah Valley University. Authorities say the shooter used a high-powered bolt-action rifle from a rooftop before fleeing on foot. Now, the FBI has recovered that weapon nearby along with palm impressions and footprints.
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This morning I can tell you that we have recovered what we believe is the weapon that was used in yesterday’s shooting. It is a high-powered bolt-action rifle. That rifle was recovered in a wooded area where the shooter had fled. The FBI laboratory will be analyzing this weapon.
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Now, the suspect is described as college-aged and remains at large. Law enforcement is analyzing video footage and the FBI is offering a reward of up to $100,000 for information leading to the arrest of those responsible for the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Earlier today, the FBI released photos of the potential suspect, calling him a person of interest. You can see it there. Authorities haven’t confirmed if the individual pictured is the shooter. The assassination, of course, has sparked national outrage with tributes from President Trump, Vice President J.D. Vance, and many other leaders, Jody, including pastors. And of course, it’s intensifying the debate over political violence and rhetoric, Jody.
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Casey, thank you so much. Appreciate that update and bringing the latest to us. All right, I want to turn our attention now to our next guest, which I’m thrilled. Of course, I’m filling in today for Tony because he’s in California right now at an event that, in fact, is going to get started for him just a little while. But given the moment that we are facing as a nation, we felt it would be best to have Tony come on and share some of his thoughts, to share some of his heart, specifically as to how we should be responding in the midst of this emotionally and spiritually charged time. So joining me now is Family Research Council President and host of Washington Watch, Tony Perkins. Thanks for joining us, Tony.
SPEAKER 18 :
Well, Jody, thank you. And as always, thanks for filling in. As I’m out on the West Coast, we’ve got a dinner here with a lot of supporters tonight. And obviously, this will be part of the focus. And then this Sunday, I’ll be preaching at Calvary Chapel Downey here in Southern California. So it’s always good to have someone filling in for me. But as you said, today, a day where a lot of people are asking why, a lot of questions. It was interesting, as I was flying out here last night, So many messages coming in from different people. Just really disturbed, stunned by what happened. And look, we’re accustomed to… Political discourse, political division. But now it appears, as we saw with the assassination attempt on the president, that our political discourse is being settled with violence. And we’ve seen violence in our streets and people feel like the country is unraveling. And Jody, I would have to say that is true. And that’s why this moment is so important and how we respond to it.
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It really is, Tony. And let me just say, first of all, you immediately, when you had the opportunity, sent an email to all the staff at FRC. I want to thank you for that. It was good for everyone to hear from you, your words, your guidance at a time like this. But this is also a time, first and foremost… I think all of us need to be in prayer for Charlie’s wife, Erica. They’re two young children. You know, there’s a lot of things, no doubt, that people could and would and do say about Charlie Kirk, but he was a person. He’s a dad. He’s a husband. And there’s an attempt today, don’t you think, Tony, largely to dehumanize people. We’ve entered into this culture where we don’t even look at people as people anymore. They’re political friends or enemies, and then it goes from there.
SPEAKER 18 :
You know, I was actually really thinking, I had a five-hour flight yesterday. I came out of the studio, as those who listened to the program yesterday, I recorded it early. I got this information about Charlie’s, the shooting, this assassination of Charlie. During the program, Pastor Jack Hibbs, who you’re going to have on later, texted me during the program. And so we stopped to share what information we knew. But then I immediately went to the airport, had five hours on the plane, and was… It is thinking through this in going back to the 1960s. Now, I was very young, so don’t really have a vivid memory of this, but I’m a student of history. The 60s were a very turbulent time. We had the assassination of John F. Kennedy. We had the assassination of Robert Kennedy. We had the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. And so it was a turbulent time. But there was something I went back and I started doing some searches. There was something that happened with each one of those. The nation came together for a period of time and the divisive rhetoric stopped. And there was an appeal based upon a shared religious, if you will, a Christian ethic that has kept this nation together. But look what happened yesterday in the Congress where you served. When the speaker called for a moment of silence and then a member said, well, I would really like to pray for Charlie because his life is on the line. And that blasphemous and profane exchange took place on the House floor. We couldn’t even get 10 minutes. of unity so jody there’s something seriously wrong in our country and i would take it back to this that what is missing that can pull us out of this the light at the end of the tunnel that we had in the 1960s and into the 70s that brought us out in the 80s was in fact the light We have to, as bearers of the light, we have to do what Charlie has been doing, what Dr. Dobson, who is now gone, and others who have done, is that we have to be bold in sharing the light of the truth so that the darkness will scatter.
SPEAKER 17 :
Absolutely, Tony, and you’re among those doing that as well. And we’re grateful for all who stand for truth and the light at times like this. But what’s shocking to me, and you just brought it up, one of the huge differences between the 1960s and what we’re seeing now is— magnified in the fact that now there actually seems to be celebrating of the shooting, people celebrating the assassination. And that is so highlighting a spiritual problem that must be addressed. And really, that’s what you’re referring to.
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Well, and there’s a platform to do that. We didn’t have social media in the 1960s. People will remember this. We had three major TV networks, and that was it. We didn’t have the plethora of cable networks. We didn’t have Facebook. We didn’t have all these other platforms where people could go on and anonymously, in many ways, just spout whatever they wanted to spout. So it is a much different time. But there’s also missing that, as you mentioned at the very beginning, this loss of humanity. And I’ll interject something else that began in the 60s with that violence was the long march through the institutions where God was removed from our schools. Prayer, Bible, referencing God. It was relegated to the private spaces of one’s life, but not in our courts, not in our schools, and not in the public square. And we… We’re seeing a resurgence of that, thank goodness. And again, Charlie represented part of that. We have President Trump opening the door once again for the vibrant expression of faith. And so there’s this resistance. But I’m just going to say this, Jodi. We have to understand what is happening, but then we need to know what to do. And the way forward is not… As Dr. King said, we’re not going to scatter darkness with darkness. We’re going to scatter light. We’re going to scatter the darkness with the light. We have to overcome the hatred that the left has, the visceral hatred they have ultimately toward God. We have to overcome that with the love of Jesus. That doesn’t mean that we give them a pass. We press for the law to be upheld. We press for our rights to be established. But we have to proclaim truth out of a heart of love, wanting to see those who are bound up in darkness come to know the Lord Jesus Christ and experience freedom. For with the transformation of lives comes the transformation of communities and countries.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, that’s absolutely right, Tony. So well said. And that’s really what I was alluding to earlier when I said that this is more than political violence. This is spiritual violence. It’s violence against God. It’s violence against truth. It’s violence against… It’s a statement that is revealing the spiritual condition of our nation, and that… has to be the focus of where all of our discussion is going as we’re moving forward. We’ve only got a minute, and Tony, if you would, would you be able to stick around after the break? I’ve got a few more questions. I want to go where you were just talking about with where do we go from here.
SPEAKER 18 :
Absolutely. You’re in control. I’m with you, Jody.
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Okay. Well, I’ll remember that, by the way, when we talk later. But listen, we’ve got another example. A Ukrainian young lady aboard a train in Charlotte, North Carolina, was murdered, and virtually no coverage of that, just kind of pushed aside. In fact, when it finally was covered, it was the fault of MAGA influencers and so forth. Everything’s being made political, is my point. Rather than getting the heart of the issue spiritual, Just a few seconds, initial thoughts, and we’ll come back after the break.
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Yeah, I mean, it’s all around us, Jody. I got a call from my sheriff last night. He called, he was concerned about what happened, wanted to know how I was doing. And he was sharing with me a homicide that took place just down the street where a grandson killed his own grandfather in cold blood, no remorse. And we talked about it. It’s the spiritual nature of what is happening. It’s demonic, it’s evil. And if we don’t approach it with that understanding, we will not succeed.
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We’ll continue this conversation right after the break. Stay tuned.
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Three years ago, the Supreme Court issued its historic Dobbs decision, a ruling that overturned Roe versus Wade, which for nearly 50 years imposed abortion on demand, silencing voters and bypassing the democratic process across the country. The Dobbs decision was a huge step forward against abortion, but it didn’t outright ban it. It returned the power to the people. Now, 29 states have laws on the books protecting life. However, there’s a catch. Abortion numbers since Dobbs have actually gone up with an increase of 12% since 2020, climbing from 930,000 to over 1 million in each of the most recent years. So how can this be? The answer is simple, the abortion drug. Today, over 60% of US abortions involve abortion drugs, many of these without medical oversight. In 2021, the Biden administration quietly removed bare minimum longstanding safety protocols for the abortion drug that have existed for 20 years to protect women from life-threatening risks and ensuring informed consent. The Biden DOJ then declared that they would not enforce the Comstock Act, which prevents the mailing of anything that causes an abortion. This is not only illegal, but also dangerous. A study shows nearly 11% of women who take the abortion drug end up in the emergency room with serious complications. Unless the Trump administration reverses these reckless Biden-era policies, pro-life laws will remain largely symbolic. Without a full review and repeal of Mifepristone, unborn lives will remain in grave danger and pregnant mothers will remain at risk. Let’s stand for life and end this mail order abortion drug pipeline. Sign the petition urging the Trump administration to take action at frc.org slash stop chemical abortion.
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen His glory. Family Research Council invites you to join our Stand on the Word Bible reading plan as we reflect upon the life of Jesus, the Word who dwelt among us. Come with us and discover the glory of the Word. Read the Gospels and witness the life-changing story of Jesus, His life, death, and resurrection. Come read how Jesus transformed the lives of common people and how those same people transformed the known world through the power of the Holy Spirit. Come with us for 10 to 15 minutes a day and read the entire New Testament before the new year. Find our Bible reading plan in daily devotionals from Tony Perkins at frc.org slash Bible. Join us and stand on the word.
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Welcome back to Washington Watch. I am Jody Heiss, your host today, filling in for Family Research Council’s president, Tony Perkins, who is also my guest right now. Tony, I know you’ve got a lot going on and a meeting soon to happen. So thank you for sticking around the break. We really appreciate it. I think it’s very important for people to hear from you now. So thank you for sticking around.
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Again, thanks for hosting.
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Let’s continue this conversation about the assassination of Charlie Kirk. I mean, there he was, peacefully engaging in a dialogue with university students as he did week after week after week. And nonetheless, here we have, shockingly for many people, many, not all, but many on the left have actually blamed Charlie. They’re blaming conservatives for creating the division that we have here. But really, the division is not that. We were introducing this before we went on the break, Tony, about the spiritual issues that we’re facing. This is not a matter of conservative versus liberal or Democrat, Republican. This goes much deeper to the heart of issues. Try to unfold that for us, if you would.
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I talk about this a lot on the program, so people have heard me say it before, but I’ve been here a long time. I’ve been here 22 years. And when I first came to Family Research Council from the legislature in Louisiana, almost every week I would be on MSNBC. All right. I haven’t been in that building for probably 15 years. I used to go in there every week and I would be on Chris Matthews’ show and I would debate Chris. And we didn’t agree on anything, but we had, you know, he’s a classic liberal. There is still truth, even though we would see it a little bit differently and we would have vigorous debates. But at the end of the day, we were cordial with what’s happened is we’ve lost truth. This goes back to what we were talking about, Jody, about God being pushed out, because If God is not our creator and we’re teaching our kids that they’re here by accident and not by design, and therefore there is no creator who can set the rules and they’re free to do whatever they want and create their own reality, including determining their own gender. Well, if that’s the case, then we’ve got this is what we end up with. We end up with people who – there is no common ground. There is no way for us to come to an agreement or even have a conversation civilly because how can two diametrically opposed views find common ground? So what you have to do – now, we’re happy to continue to – I’ll debate any of them. I’m happy to have a conversation with anybody. But that’s not the case on the left. What they want to do is what we literally saw yesterday with Charlotte. They want to silence him. And that’s why we saw the cancel culture. We were at the tip of that spear. You know, we had Southern Public Law Center that you mentioned earlier came into our building after we were or we had a A shooter come into our building after we were labeled by the Southern Poverty Law Center, shot one of our people. They have to silence because they will not come to terms with the fact that there is transcendent truth. And if it does, all of their policies fall apart. including destroying the unborn, that the reality is it’s not a choice. It is a creation of God. The idea that gender is fluid and can be defined by anybody at once, that falls apart because not only is it moral, there are moral law there, moral element, but there’s a biological element. But if you deny truth, you can end up anywhere. And so they have to run from truth. They have to kill truth. because they cannot face truth.
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So let’s go from there, Tony. I think that’s a perfect segue to where we need to go, and that is in the direction of solutions. I’ve talked to many people, even today, who, I mean, they’re filled with anger, which is understandable, but at the end of the day, you can’t fight hatred with more hatred. You can’t eliminate hatred sin by more sin. We can just put it that way, hatred with hatred. So let’s start talking about the solution from a biblical perspective. What do we need to do? We’ve got to guard our hearts. How do we go from here?
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Yeah, let me just, let me clarify, because I know what you’re saying, and I, because I’ve said the same thing, and I just want our people, I want our people to hear this very clearly. We’re not equating the right’s response with the left’s response in terms of their violence, but what we’re saying is like what Jesus said. Jesus said, you know, you haven’t murdered, okay, but have you hated in your heart? And because he’s raised the standard in the kingdom. And so for us to carry out our mission of carrying the light, we’ve got to deal with the motivation in our heart. And so we cannot harbor that hatred or bitterness, even in this situation, as much as we are angered and shocked. We’ve got to pray and we have to seek the solutions through the Lord. And I believe it is, as he said, love our enemies. This is the kingdom. This is where the rubber meets the road in the kingdom of God, Jody, because it is counterintuitive. It is counter to human nature and it is not easy. As Jesus called his disciples, if anyone wants to follow me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. What we must do is not shrink back in fear because of what happened to Charlie. Charlie was bold. He was courageous. He lived his life, and he didn’t live it in fear. And I believe that his legacy is going to have an impact on this country. We must live without fear, but we also must live with a compassion for the lost in that our goal is not to win an argument, but our goal is to win the hearts and minds of people with the truth so that they may come to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Is it going to be easy? Absolutely not. Are we going to have to work at it? Yes, we need the power and the presence of the Holy Spirit. And it begins within. This is a soul-searching time, not just for the nation, but for the church as well, Jody.
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Absolutely. Tony, we’ve only got a little over a minute, but this is a dark time. We need our spiritual leaders to step up. We need the body of Christ to step up. So how would you encourage our viewers and listeners right now to be praying for those who are in positions of authority?
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Well, you mentioned earlier, first, I think we need to be praying for Charlie’s family and his children and Turning Point USA and all those very close to him who are suffering a tragic loss. But then pray for the church, pray for our nation that we… We take a pause and would this not just be a passing thing? I mean, this is 9-11, you know, and I remember for about two weeks there was a sense of inflection during or reflection during the time of 9-11, but then it went away. We can’t let this go away without a transformation of our lives. culture and our country, and that’s going to require the people of God to search out the ways of God and then live those ways out publicly with boldness and courage, even in the face of opposition.
SPEAKER 17 :
Absolutely. Tony Perkins, President of Family Research Council, I know you’re busy on the West Coast. I want to thank you for pulling away and spending some time with us here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 18 :
Thank you, Jody. And we continue to pray for our nation.
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Absolutely. All right, friends, coming up, we’re going to talk some more about what’s behind the violent rampages like we saw yesterday. So stay tuned.
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Thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch. I’m Jody Heiss filling in for Tony, who is just with us. And again, let me just say a huge thank you to Tony Perkins for his leadership here in FRC and beyond for specifically taking time tonight to be with us when he has a lot going on. All right, we of course have been discussing the shocking assassination of Charlie Kirk that has stunned millions, millions of Americans all across both the political and spiritual spectrum. And while the condemnation of this shooting has certainly been widespread, and thankfully, It’s come from both sides of the aisle. But nonetheless, we would be amiss not to note and underscore what fuels terrible actions like what took place yesterday. In a Facebook post, the Southern Poverty Law Center stated this. We condemn the shooting of Charlie Kirk and all violence in any form. Our history shows violence only fuels division. All right, well, that’s fine, but you know what fuels violence? It’s hatred. That’s what the Scripture says, and Tony brought that up. Hate in your heart, even. Angry leads to hatred, and hatred leads to violence. So when organizations like the SPLC add organizations like Charlie Kirk’s Turning Point USA on their hate map, Look, the SPLC then becomes not part of the solution, but part of the problem. Well, joining me now to discuss this and more is Tyler O’Neill. He’s a senior editor at The Daily Signal and author of Making Hate Pay, The Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Tyler, welcome back to Washington Watch. It’s an honor to have you. Thanks so much for having me, Jody. All right. Look, we don’t yet know what motivation or what inspired the assassin yesterday. But we do know that the SPLC’s so-called hate map certainly seems to have fueled violence. FRC ourselves was a target of a mass shooting some 13 years ago as a result, frankly, of being added to SPLC’s hate list around that time. So Charlie Kirk’s organization was also added to the SPLC’s hate list just a few months ago, wasn’t it?
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Yeah, you’re exactly right. And I was the first one to notice and report on Turning Point USA, the largest conservative grassroots youth organization in the country being put on the hate map with chapters of the Ku Klux Klan. And as you noted, you know, this map has inspired violence directly in that case of the shooting at the Family Research Council. You had a man come into the building with a semi-automatic handgun and a bag of Chick-fil-A chicken sandwiches, and he told the FBI he intended to shoot everyone in the building and smear a Chick-fil-A sandwich in their faces. The SPLC condemned the attack but kept the Family Research Council on the map ever since. Notably, also the SPLC had repeatedly attacked Steve Scalise, who was the House majority whip. When a man opened fire at the congressional baseball game practice and almost took the life of Steve Scalise, this man had liked the SPLC on Facebook. Of course, the SPLC condemned that attack as well. But now we have yet another example of Charlie Kirk, you know, who’s very prominent in his own right, but also put on the SPLC hate map a few months later, shot in this case, deadly so, assassinated. and the SPLC condemns it, I’m sorry, but that is not enough. This is the third in a series I’m saying the SPLC, if they prove that they oppose political violence, they need to take Turning Point USA off of the hate map immediately. And I’ve reached out to the SPLC multiple times today asking them to do this. I have a new article up at the Daily Signal right now calling on them. If they want to put their money where their mouth is, they need to take Turning Point off the map today.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, good for you. And not just Turning Point. They need to trash the entire hate map. It is nothing but a political tool, in my opinion, that, as you said, has become an instrument for violence. So, Tyler, let me ask you this. The legacy media has certainly tried to portray political violence, let’s put it that way, as a problem from both the left and the right. Okay, there may be some justification to that. But it’s certainly not a 50-50 split, is it?
SPEAKER 05 :
There are a few situations where Democrats have been attacked. Most notably, I think it’s important to note the Minnesota former House speaker. And, you know, our hearts go out to her family as well as to the family of Charlie Kirk, especially in the case of Charlie Kirk, truly horrific. But what I and I have another story up on The Daily Signal about this. There have been multiple attacks on Republicans and conservatives in the past few years. I mean, Rand Paul got attacked. It does not look like that was politically motivated, but he was still his ribs were broken. He had he is facing pneumonia. There was a state legislature legislator who was running for office. And the month before his election, he got sucker punched. Time.
SPEAKER 17 :
Rather less than a minute, less than a minute left. So continue.
SPEAKER 05 :
I think it’s important to say here that you’re absolutely right. The SPLC has done so much harm to so many good conservative and Christian organizations. It needs to take far more of them off that hate map than just Turning Point. The reason I’m saying they should take Turning Point off is because in this particular instance, there was particular violence against the head of Turning Point USA shortly after the SPLC added Turning Point. They need to put their money where their mouth is and take, at the very least, this small step. And you’re absolutely right. I mean, Family Research Council, Alliance Defending Freedom, so many organizations have no business being on any map with the Klan. But if the SPLC wants to prove they oppose political violence, Take Turning Point off the hate map today.
SPEAKER 17 :
Tyler O’Neill, Senior Editor at The Daily Signal. Thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch. We appreciate it. Coming up, I’m going to get a pastoral perspective on yesterday’s tragedy with Pastor Jack Hibbs. So stay tuned.
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How should Christians think about the thorny issues shaping our culture? How should Christians address deceitful ideas like transgenderism, critical theory, or assisted suicide? How can Christians navigate raising children in a broken culture, the war on gender roles, or rebuilding our once great nation? Outstanding is a podcast from The Washington Stand dedicated to these critical conversations. Outstanding seeks to tear down what our corrupt culture lifts up with an aim to take every thought and every idea captive to the obedience of Christ. Whether policies or partisan politics, whether conflict in America or conflict abroad, join us and our guests as we examine the headlines through the lens of Scripture and explore how Christians can faithfully exalt Christ in all of life. Follow Outstanding on your favorite podcast app and look for new episodes each week.
SPEAKER 17 :
Thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch. Welcome back. I’m Jody Heiss. An honor to be filling in today for Tony. Well, of course, throughout the program today, we’ve been discussing the shocking assassination of Charlie Kirk, who was just 31 years old. He, of course, is the founder of Turning Point USA. You may not realize this. He founded that incredible organization when he was just 18 years old. That organization has grown to become one of the most influential student movements in our nation’s history. They’ve got over 650,000 lifetime student members. There’s a lot that can be said about Charlie Kirk, but I think it’s important for us to hear both from a pastoral perspective and to hear from someone who knew him very well. Joining me to share with us the Charlie Kirk that he knew is Pastor Jack Hibbs. He is the senior and founding pastor of Calvary Chapel in Chino Hills, Southern California, and he is also the founder and president of Real Life Ministry. Pastor Jack, thank you so much for joining me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Jody, thank you, brother. I love you, and I’m grateful for this time together right now.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, we love you too. And, you know, right now it’s a somber time for our country, but this is the time that the body of Christ has to stand up and spiritual leaders such as yourself are doing so. Pastor Jack, let me start, though, with just tell us about Charlie Kirk, how you met him and who he was.
SPEAKER 03 :
Charlie, when he was, well, you mentioned how he started TPUSA at the age of 18. I met up with Charlie probably at about the age of 22. And he had come to the Lord earlier on. He said somewhere around age 15 or so, he began to understand the Lord better in scripture. He came to what he believed is the born again relationship at that time. But he wanted to grow more. And I was introduced and Charlie was introduced to me here at the church. And it was told to Charlie, you need to know this pastor. He loves politics. He loves the nation. He loves the word of God. And you need to know him. And so it was one of those things, Jody, where… It was love at first sight with Charlie. I saw within Charlie a son that I did not have. And so it started a relationship, Jody, that I had the wonderful honor to disciple Charlie. He was such a remarkable consumer of the Bible. I mean, he would eat up the Word. I kind of feel like Gamaliel in the book of Acts, where we know from church history that When Saul of Tarsus was learning the word Gamaliel writes in church history, it’s recorded that he could not keep Charlie or he could not keep Saul, Paul the Apostle in books. Charlie would consume everything that I would put his way. Charles Spurgeon, Chuck Smith, Charles Stanley, specialty books like on Israel, Arnold Frutenbaum. He would just say, tell me what to read. What do I need to know? And give me the books of opposition of what we believe. He was tenacious, Jody, to consume the Word of God. And then Charlie naturally took to like the proverb, duck to the water. Charlie knew instinctively because he was a doer. He was a doer. Whatever he learned, he was going to do it. And so we enjoyed these years together where once a week, sometimes twice a week, we would communicate scripture, Bible verses, phone call. In fact, I talked to Charlie less than 24 hours before he was shot. I was in a conversation on the phone with Charlie together. And who Charlie was in public, it’s who he was in private. He was incredibly warm, incredibly humble. And anyone who’s ever seen him at full length, by the way, where he’s set up at his college table, he’s got people there asking him questions. And Jody, I have never seen… I’ve never seen people more hostile and angry and cussing at him and calling him all kinds of names. And Charlie would just say, OK, he’s nodding his head and he would say, but but what is your question? You have a question. Please, please ask your question. They would ask the question and he would either answer them respectfully or he would say to them, well, my answer is I don’t know. I’ll get back to you. Can I get your number? But no matter how it went, At the end of every questioner, Charlie would say, well, I want you to know Jesus Christ loves you. He died on the cross for your sins, and he wants you to have an amazing life through him. Next, please step up to the mic. Next, this was Charlie Kirk. And I love the fact also that as successful as he was, and it was such an influence that he was, none of that got in the way of him being a lover a husband to Erica, his wife. He put his family first as we should all. And I love this too about him, Jody, is that every weekend Charlie would silence his phone. He would go, he said, I Sabbath from technology on the weekends. And he spent that time investing in the Lord. He would often attend church, either here online, and he would let me know that. I just watched the sermon. God bless you, Jack. But he put God first, family second, and his ministry was third or somewhere down below that. And a remarkable man, for sure.
SPEAKER 17 :
Wow. Wow. And what an amazing impact he has had. Untold hundreds of thousands of students have been transformed by that ministry that you just described. I look at what’s happening at colleges all across the country. As we saw last year, and we saw even beginning last night in several different locations, with just a spiritual outbreaking of prayer and worship and hundreds, thousands being baptized the last year. Describe his impact and what do you think his legacy is going to be?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, his impact, first of all, is not only one that we can research and study and know before his death, but Jody, his impact, I believe, and I’m already seeing evidence of this, His impact is going to increase after his passing. And I have some evidence. Last night, we had our normal Wednesday night service at church, but we’ve departed from our study in the book of Hebrews to address Charlie and a time of prayer. And I heard reports from people. By the way, Jody, we had over 4,000 people here on a Wednesday night. And I heard from people who are either atheist, who what happened to Charlie caused them to get angry in the right way and they wanna make a change. I’ve heard people say, that’s it, I’m stepping up now. If that young man preached what he preached, said what he said, created what he did and died for it, I’m stepping up. I’m becoming a patriot. I’m becoming a Christian. I am going to stand. This is remarkable. Jodie, I believe that we are going to see a tremendous move of the Spirit of God bringing people like this, for example. Those who have followed him in the TPUSA movement, they’re Gen Z. They heard their leader, they decided to become involved with their leader, and they began to do this on their own campuses and in front of the entire world. Jody, their leader was assassinated. None of them I’m hearing is shrieking back from that commitment. They are saying, that’s it. That just sealed the deal. He preached it, taught it, lived it out to the second he went to see Jesus, I’m gonna do the same. Jody, I believe no one can fill Charlie’s shoes, but what Charlie did is that he produced shoes for people to step into with the TPUSA leadership teams and campus chapters. And I think between now and the next 10 years, all along the way, we are gonna see a reproduction of versions of Charlie Kirk that the enemy, quite frankly, did not consider.
SPEAKER 17 :
Amazing you brought that up, Pastor Jack. Just my wife and I specifically to that point. And we were having a, with FRC community, a Bible study this morning in Acts chapter 13. But that’s when they were sending out Paul and so forth. But we are praying specifically. There are 10 people right now. who are sensing the call of God’s Spirit to step up to the plate and engage, to be salt and light like never before. There’s a hundred people, there’s a thousand people who are listening and watching right now, who God is speaking to, I believe, to step up to the plate. And what you’re describing right now, I really do believe is going to be a legacy. What the enemy meant for harm is going to be multiplied over and over and over and reproduced in leaders, young leaders stepping up because of the influence of Charlie. Let me ask you this, Pastor Jack, and I know this could be painful, and I don’t mean, I don’t intend that, but what can you share with us about what was going through your heart and your mind yesterday when you heard the news of the shooting?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Jody, it’s very graphic. So My brother who lives in Utah wanted to get a ticket to the Charlie Kirk event there in Utah and kind of late in requesting, but he said, can you do something for me? So I called Charlie and Charlie said, here’s my number. I’ll set it up and we’ll get a picture of it. We’ll send it to you, Jack. Charlie did that. And then he put my brother right in the front seat of the event and And that was Charlie, generous, generous to a fault, kind, compassionate, everybody, everybody was important to Charlie. Many times we would be speaking together at various events and Charlie would whisper in my ear, you have no idea, Jack, the impact you’ve had on my life, go get him. That kind of stuff, I’m 68 years old, he was 31 years old. He was that Paul the Apostle Timothy relationship that I just thank God for allowing me to have a little bit of an impact in that. His ability to encourage people, just at our church alone, when Charlie spoke, and he spoke here often, when Charlie spoke, he had an anointing upon him to fuse Jody. The very thing that the leftist screams bloody murder about is there’s gotta be a separation of church and state. Charlie was so beautiful at showing you the actual real example of not only biblical, Leadership and civics lived out in the public square. But he also exemplified, Jody, please listen. He exemplified what it meant to be an actual true American. So Charlie looked unique to us in this 21st century. But I would argue with you today, Jody, that if you took Charlie up and picked him up and set him back in 1776, he would have been the norm. He would have been the norm. Free speech, loving one another, crafting policy that benefits all people for the betterment of the nation, to form a more perfect union. The love of the Constitution. Charlie would have somehow been in some way either sweeping the floor of the Constitutional Convention or being one of the signers. He would have been normal 250 years ago. Today, he’s unique. I think, Charlie, if he could speak to us today, he would say, let’s go back to the ancient pillars that made this nation great, and that’s where we need to go. Now, Jody, you know better than I do, there’s a completely different worldview that says one thing and then does the opposite. And that one world view is, you know, we need to ban guns. And that’s their answer. We need more laws. That’s their answer. When the issue is the human heart. And when you bring up the human heart, That other side doesn’t want to talk about it. They’ll condemn you for it. I got condemned. 26 members of Congress condemned my prayer and opening of Congress because I mentioned Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And I mentioned the word repent. And they’ve hated me ever since for it. Why? Because we live in a nation that is divided by two separate worldviews. Everybody falls into one of the two camps. And here’s the thing, when violence happens, how is it the violence that is taking place is taking place by those who say violence should not take place, but they’re often the ones perpetrating it. We’re looking at the ideology of DEI, the BLM, right? All of the gender issue. And notice where the violence is coming from and who is it being put upon. And it’s a time, our nation, Jodie, if we don’t get back to addressing the heart and soul of an individual and encouraging churches to stand in the pulpits and to preach the everlasting gospel in power and in truth. I used to think that it’s gonna take years if ever to change America. I don’t believe that anymore, Jodie. I believe that if the Holy Spirit, like you read in the book of Acts chapter 13, where the Spirit of God says, separate unto me, Paul, for the work that I’ve called him to do. Jodie, I believe now America could change on a Sunday. If the Spirit of God would be welcomed in every pulpit, if the Spirit of God and the Word of God would be honored and upheld in every pulpit in America today, America could change this terrible trajectory in one Sunday, if we’re willing.
SPEAKER 17 :
Absolutely. I remember Dr. Dennis Kinlaw used to say, more can be accomplished in one divine moment when God enters into it than what can ever happen in our lifetime. Amen. Pastor Jack, unfortunately, we’ve got less than a minute. What you hit on, Tony and I were talking about a little while ago, this is a spiritual problem. In 30 seconds or so, what would your message be to the
SPEAKER 03 :
return, return to the place of revival. Open up the word of God like King Josiah and Hezekiah and the others did. Open up the word of God and intentionally read it. Don’t glaze over it. Put down social media, dive into the word of God, and then ask God, God, what would you have me to do? So, Father God, we pray in Jesus Name. I thank you, Lord, that FRC is on the front lines. I thank you, Lord, for what’s going on. I pray, Lord, in Jesus Name, we agree together that you’d heal our nation. We all know, we all know that the answer for these problems is not in the White House or in the state house. It’s only going to be found in God’s house. So, Lord, we pray, send your mercy, but send a revival among the church so that there’d be an awakening among the lost. In Jesus Name.
SPEAKER 17 :
Amen. And amen. Pastor Jack Hibbs, thank you. God bless you all. Bye-bye.
SPEAKER 11 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family, and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
