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In this episode of Rush to Reason, John Rush and Andy Peth tackle a packed hour of politics, policy, and purpose. They start with the Colorado governor and Senate races, exposing the Democrats’ likely game plan of swapping seats — Polis to Senate, Bennett to governor — while the GOP struggles to mount a strong challenge. Then, they dive deep into Supreme Court succession, arguing that conservative justices must act now to secure the Court’s future and debating whether Ted Cruz, Trey Gowdy, or a younger legal mind should take the bench next.
Later, author Donya Greenberg joins the show
SPEAKER 13 :
This is Rush to Reason.
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You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes. With your host, John Rush.
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My advice to you is to do what your parents did.
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Get a job, sir. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
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Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 13 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560, hour number two. And somebody asked if I was going to talk, so we’ll continue on. We talked a lot about, and we will be in the future, so trust me, this whole topic on the governor race in Colorado, and I want to keep reminding people that we haven’t really heard anybody on our side even talking about, okay, what about some of the, or what about the Senate race that’s going to be happening as well? And I don’t know why, Andy. Yeah, why is that? They’re all running for governor. It’s a great Some of these, by the way, might actually be able to do something on the Senate side, potentially. I mean, I’d have to really look closely at that to determine exactly whether they would be electable or not. And has the Democrats announced who they’re going to? No. Is it going to be Hickenlooper? Is he going to bow out or is he going to stay in it? Have we heard what he’s doing one way or the other?
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m sure he’ll stay in.
SPEAKER 13 :
And then who’s going to take Bennett’s place?
SPEAKER 03 :
I would think Polis. If he doesn’t run for president, I would run for the Senate if I were him. I’m just saying, wouldn’t you? It’s either president or the Senate. So, you know, one of them.
SPEAKER 13 :
So they feel like they can just swap?
SPEAKER 03 :
Of course. Why not? By the way, in Florida, Ron DeSantis is going to have to start thinking about that himself.
SPEAKER 13 :
Hmm. Yeah. Hmm. You know what? Why hadn’t I thought about it that way? They’re just going to flip-flop is what you’re thinking.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it’s certainly a possibility. Why not?
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, if we don’t do any better on our side, that’s exactly what’s going to happen, Andy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. You’re not wrong. And they’ll win in landslides. Because the beauty of it is you’re turned out, but you’re not turned out in the other position, and you’ve already got full name rack. Okay. Total name recognition, which you don’t have to create. It’s great. I mean, even somebody like Victor Marks on our side, he has right now, apparently the greatest name rec.
SPEAKER 13 :
Because Hickenlooper is the one that’s going to have to rerun. So he’s who you’re going to run against on our end.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER 13 :
And then does – I’m not familiar with the rules. I’m sorry. I apologize. I should know this. But because Bennett isn’t at the end, he’s got several more years left. If he – Oh, you could run in the Senate forever. No, what I’m saying is if he gets elected because he’s got years left in his term, how does he get replaced? Is that through the governor of Colorado or how does that work? Charlie, do you know?
SPEAKER 03 :
I honestly forget how we do it in Colorado.
SPEAKER 13 :
Because it’s different. Different states do different things, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. I mean, I think would have how many years would he have left in his term?
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, he was just elected in 2020. Was it 22? No. Yeah, 2022 is when he was elected.
SPEAKER 03 :
So he’s got two more years. I would think if he won, then they would appoint somebody for the remainder of his term. But I can’t. I don’t know how long his term. I would think the governor. But every state is different. So honestly, offhand, I don’t know exactly how Colorado handles that. But I would think the governor.
SPEAKER 13 :
I’m typing this in to find out because I don’t know how that actually works. I should have looked this up. I’m sorry. So if Michael Bennett were to win the 2026 Colorado gubernatorial election, he would resign his U.S. Senate seat, of course, and as governor, appoint his own replacement. So going back to your point on Polis, Polis potentially could be his replacement for those last two years.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 13 :
Hmm.
SPEAKER 03 :
Which makes perfect sense. I mean, wouldn’t you do that?
SPEAKER 13 :
Sure I would.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 13 :
In a heartbeat.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and Polis, he could stay in the Senate until he dies. Here in Colorado, he’d never lose.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, even if you didn’t get something done as VP or president, you just hang out there forever. Right. Yeah, yeah. That’s probably the full Democrat plan right there.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you’ve got to keep in mind, if he’s not going to run for president right away in 28, because everything changed.
SPEAKER 13 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
With Vance. Once Donald Trump chose J.D. Vance as his running mate, everything changed for 28. Now the Democrats have to face a terrific debater. They weren’t expecting that, okay? They were not expecting to have to face one of the big three, which are— True. Vance Rubio, DeSantis. Those are the big three. Nobody on the left wants to face any of those three. True. They wanted us to choose someone else. Now that we’re going to get most likely a Vance Rubio ticket, I think that’s what it’s going to be. I don’t know who’s even going to want to run in 28 against that. Certainly not Polis. Polis doesn’t want to rack up a loss. And so I think Polis would want to go in the Senate, wait for the country to swing back to the left in time, and then he will have the national profile from his work in the Senate. Then he can run for president.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, meaning he would be, for all of you that maybe don’t know this, he would be a representative that was for a long time out of the Boulder area, then became governor of Colorado for eight years.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 13 :
And then would go on to be a senator for who knows how long.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, until he’d be a senator, until the national mood would swing back, because eventually it will. But right now, 2028 just looks awful for the Democrat Party. First of all, registration levels have surged on the right. I don’t think that looks good in 2028. 2026, they might do well just because, well, you know, Trump. It’s his midterm. But no, nobody wants to face Vance Rubio.
SPEAKER 13 :
Nobody wants to. I can’t argue with you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Vance Rubio, at this point, have all the advantages of Donald Trump and none of the disadvantages. I mean, what a ticket. Good Lord. I mean, would you want to face that?
SPEAKER 13 :
No, and again, I don’t think your analogy is all that off. I think, you know, given what we just talked about, no, I think you’re spot on. Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. There you go.
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SPEAKER 11 :
Putting reason into your afternoon drive, this is John Rush.
SPEAKER 13 :
And we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Something that several of you actually sent me information on. I saw this first thing this morning, so I didn’t really need to have anybody send me things. But, hey, this is a deep topic or a hot topic, I guess I should say. And a lot of you were, you know, Johnny on the spot on this. But I did see it. Denver budget woes deepen as a major leaseholder stops paying its $650,000 a month monthly rent. So they bought, the city of Denver did, the Denver Post building at 101 West Colfax Avenue. The tenant, their largest tenant there, keep in mind that the city of Denver rents some space in that building currently. So wait a minute. The city of Denver is the landlord? They own it. Okay. Continue. And their largest tenant decided to stop making rent payments as of August. Right now they owe the city about $2 million.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 13 :
The largest tenant’s name is DP Media Network LLC. I’m guessing Denver Post Media Network LLC.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, boy.
SPEAKER 13 :
$2 million they’re owed right now. Now, frankly, this was a really bad choice, in my opinion, to buy this building in the first place. This is one of those areas where I talk about all the time, not the proper role of government, never should have bought it. Their plan was to move the Denver court system down there at some point as a 303,000-square-foot building. Quite honestly, you don’t need 303,000 square feet for courts, not in today’s world.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, but if the Denver Post, it’s the Denver Post? Basically.
SPEAKER 13 :
It’s the Denver Post building, and DP Media is the tenant.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, whatever. If DP Media isn’t paying, first of all, you’re going to have to try to sue them to get some of that money. But setting that aside for a moment, would this facilitate speeding up moving the courts into that building? I mean, you might as well. You got the building now.
SPEAKER 13 :
You bought it. Yeah, that I have no idea.
SPEAKER 03 :
What do you think?
SPEAKER 13 :
I would. I think you need to do whatever you can to try to recoup things. But keep in mind, this is a budget issue because they are now $650K a month out. Yeah, exactly. That money’s not coming in, by the way. Bob and Thornton, go ahead.
SPEAKER 14 :
Hi. So you guys are talking about succession plans to run for president, vice president and stuff. There’s going to be some – Trump’s got reinstated. Not a third years left. They ought to be starting to look at the Supreme Court, because you’ve got Sotomayor that’s in poor health.
SPEAKER 13 :
They should be looking at that as we speak.
SPEAKER 03 :
Actually, the two eldest conservatives on our side need to step down as soon as possible.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, they need to. They need to because we’ve got to do it while we still have the Senate. Look, we’re going to hold the Senate in 26, barely, but we’ve got to.
SPEAKER 13 :
We can’t make the same mistake, Bob, that they made with Ginsburg.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. They’ve got to step down.
SPEAKER 14 :
But Clarence Thomas is the oldest. He’s 77. Right. And he has indicated that he might want to retire while— Trump is in there so that, you know, he didn’t want to sooner than sooner than later.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Both of them need to step down. And by the way, he needs to do more than indicate that he might want to. He needs to simply do it. Look, I’m sorry, but the future of SCOTUS is up in the air here. We cannot take any chances with this.
SPEAKER 14 :
Right. Samuel Alito is 75.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, him too.
SPEAKER 14 :
But that’s not that old for a Supreme Court justice. So am I. You’re. she has indicated that she’s ill. So I don’t wish anything bad on her.
SPEAKER 13 :
But again, she has to make that decision on her own, which we have no influence in. You have influence on the other two. I’m with Andy. The other two need to resign as quickly as possible and get somebody in that’s about 25 years younger.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. I mean, Sotomayor is in poor health, Bob. I’ve seen that, too. I got news for you. They will put her on whatever life support they can possibly put her on and keep her alive as a walking zombie if they have to.
SPEAKER 13 :
They did it with Ruth.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. They’re going to push it as long as they possibly can until they get a Democrat president.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah. The other two, though, Bob, need to step down and do this ASAP.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yep. Well, yeah, but I mean, she’s probably got some family and her health is bad.
SPEAKER 13 :
irrelevant yeah yeah yeah it doesn’t bob they don’t care yeah democrats they’ll prop her up until the very end she could be a skeleton sitting there they don’t care bob i was raised a democrat let me tell you something they only care about power it doesn’t matter family health history things these things are irrelevant they only care about holding on to power well and they prove that with ginsburg right they’re gonna she held on way longer than she should have than she should have
SPEAKER 14 :
It doesn’t matter what somebody else thinks if she decides to retire.
SPEAKER 13 :
She won’t. She won’t. No offense, Bob. She’s an activist. You are giving her far too much credit. She is in that for the long haul on the Democrat side.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, she doesn’t care. If I was 71 and had poor health.
SPEAKER 13 :
Bob, it doesn’t matter. You’re not thinking correctly.
SPEAKER 03 :
You don’t understand.
SPEAKER 13 :
Let me say it this way. You’re thinking correctly. She doesn’t.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. Bob, you’re thinking as a rational person. There’s the problem. She’s not. She is an all-in, hardcore, anti-American, Marxist activist. That is her entire life’s calling. It is all that matters to her. It is all she thinks of when she wakes up. It’s all that she thinks of when she goes to bed at night.
SPEAKER 14 :
I have no clue as to what her personal life is.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, I can guarantee you that is her mindset. She votes that way. This is a hard line, hardcore left-wing Marxist activist. All the way. She will hold on to the bitter end. Guaranteed.
SPEAKER 14 :
I’m a hardcore conservative Republican, and it didn’t keep me from retiring.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, but you’re not on the Supreme Court, and you don’t have a bunch of lefties in your ear. Well— Keep in mind, Bob, and this is the problem our side has that the other side doesn’t. The other side has marching orders, and they do exactly what they’re told to do. Our side doesn’t do that, Bob.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, anyway, I would— So really quick, though, just to reiterate, the other two, though, on our side, I firmly believe, and I’m glad you brought this up because it’s not being talked about enough, the other two need to step down ASAP. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 14 :
Absolutely. Well, they got over three years.
SPEAKER 13 :
No, they don’t. No, they don’t. You’ve got midterms coming up that you don’t know exactly how that’s going to turn out when it comes to the Senate. Right now, you can control it. Right now, it needs to happen before next November.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly, because, Bob, for all we know, for all we know, a couple of Republicans who we think are shoe-ins to win could have some kind of scandal happen. And all of a sudden, we’re down 51-49 in the Senate.
SPEAKER 13 :
We have the control now. We need to take advantage of it.
SPEAKER 14 :
My… choice for the next one that leaves the Supreme Court would be Ted Cruz.
SPEAKER 13 :
I can’t argue that.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think he’d be fantastic. My only concern is Ted Cruz is not as young as I would like to put on the Supreme Court. I would like to put somebody on there younger.
SPEAKER 13 :
So who is a good attorney that would do well at that?
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t know.
SPEAKER 13 :
Somebody that’s in the legal end of things that would do well at that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Preferably somebody who is currently eight years old.
SPEAKER 13 :
I want somebody there forever. I want somebody that’s in their at least late 50s, early 60s at max, and I would prefer to have somebody in their early 50s, Bob. 40s.
SPEAKER 03 :
I want somebody in their 40s.
SPEAKER 13 :
You can find him.
SPEAKER 14 :
I think by the looks of Ted Cruz, I think he’s got a good 20 years ahead of him.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, he would be. I mean, if you’re just talking about who would be my personal favorite, it’s Ted Cruz. Yeah. I would say the same. But if there’s a younger Ted Cruz, that’s who I’d want. The reason I’d want Ted Cruz, Bob, is I have been disappointed too much with the people that we thought were sure things like Amy Coney Barrett.
SPEAKER 14 :
So Ted Cruz has an amazing grasp of law. Correct. Congressional law. Correct. Everything else. Yep. Just spectacular.
SPEAKER 13 :
No, I agree.
SPEAKER 14 :
Get 20 years out of him, fine.
SPEAKER 03 :
He would be another Scalia Thomas. He’d be exactly like them.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, and if you get 20 years, that might be a worthwhile endeavor, although I’m with Andy, though, Bob. If we could get 30 out of somebody else, I’d rather do that.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, I think the biggest miss we’re going to have when he’s gone is Clarence Thomas.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 14 :
We’ll never get anybody like that again.
SPEAKER 13 :
Can’t argue. And by the way, again, not being talked about enough. Ted would be like Clarence Thomas. He would be.
SPEAKER 03 :
Only just for 20 years.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah. How old is Ted? Do you know?
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t. I think he’s in his 50s. I think maybe 60. I think he’s older than that, I want to say. Is he in his 60s? No, he’s 54. Okay, 54. So that’s not too bad.
SPEAKER 13 :
He could have 30 years.
SPEAKER 1 :
84.
SPEAKER 13 :
It’s possible. How old was she?
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t know. She looked a lot older than she was.
SPEAKER 13 :
Let me look here really quick. I don’t know this stuff off the top of my head. I’m sorry, folks. I usually do.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, RBG was very unhealthy toward the end.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, man, they propped her up for a couple of years, did they not?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah, totally.
SPEAKER 13 :
So let’s see here. She, 1933 to 2020, how old did that make her? Somebody do that off the top of their head really quick. Charlie, anyone?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that’s 87.
SPEAKER 13 :
Okay, so there you go.
SPEAKER 03 :
Wow. So I didn’t know she was that old.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. I, well, maybe if Ted could go that long, I mean, why not? I mean, the thing about Ted is he’s a sure thing. I don’t have to worry that he would be the next Amy Coney Barrett.
SPEAKER 13 :
Very true.
SPEAKER 03 :
And we can’t have another one of that. And my goodness, our Supreme, you know,
SPEAKER 13 :
The other thing about Ted that I do like.
SPEAKER 03 :
John Roberts is just a disaster.
SPEAKER 13 :
I think the one thing that Ted does, and maybe I’m wrong in this, is he brings some influence to the rest of the bench that I’m not sure the rest of them can do.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that’s true. Look, if age wasn’t a concern at all, he is not just my first choice. He’s my first choice by a long shot.
SPEAKER 13 :
54 is not that bad, Andy.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s not too bad.
SPEAKER 13 :
No, that would work. It’s not too bad. That could work, actually.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. I mean, that’s a little younger. I was thinking upper 50s, so it’s a few more years than I thought. Boy, he’d be great. And you wouldn’t have to worry about getting another Thomas then. No, you wouldn’t. You got him.
SPEAKER 13 :
You’d have one shoe in. Again, this is another top – Bob, thanks for bringing it up because in my opinion, this is another one of those topics that frankly just isn’t talked about enough. But back to the whole Denver buying of the building and all of that – What a boondoggle. By the way, there are council members that are now talking about that basically had found out about this through the news media that said, I had no idea all of this was even going on. They hadn’t been paying their rent since August. So what in the world, Mayor Johnston, are you doing and what’s going on at the city of Denver?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, John, what can they do to try to get some of that money?
SPEAKER 13 :
I mean, it’s $2 million that they’re behind on rent. You’d have to sue them, and that could be long drawn out. There’s no guarantees you’re going to get that overnight. And you’ve got to go through an eviction process, and, and, and, and, and. This is not an easy thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it’s also really ugly for the Democrats to be suing Democrats for money.
SPEAKER 13 :
That’s true.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And, I mean, not only it’s Democrats in government suing Democrats in media for money. That doesn’t look good. And, and you’re going into midterms and you’re going into a governor and Senate race. It’s just, it’s, you know, I’m just saying all around, it’s just kind of ugly. It’s not good timing.
SPEAKER 13 :
I don’t, again, I’m one that’s like, okay, they paid $88.5 million for this particular building, 303,000 square feet. Were there other choices, other even, you know, high rises, things like that, that would have done as well as this? And I don’t know. And I don’t know enough about the current.
SPEAKER 03 :
Have you been there?
SPEAKER 13 :
No, and I don’t know enough about the current makeup of the current courts and so on, but I just have to wonder how needed was a $88.5 million purchase for the city of Denver?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know how needed it was, but I do know this. Look, if you’re not getting paid for that, I would start moving. I mean, if you did this, if you bought that with the idea of moving the courts there, then move them.
SPEAKER 13 :
Right. Can’t argue that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 13 :
But again, just an example. Biggest thing of this article, and I think this is even where a lot of the reporters on this article are going, what a boondoggle. Oh, my word. What? I mean, council members not even knowing that it’s $2 million behind on rent and late fees. You’ve got council members that don’t even know what’s going on. That’s embarrassing, by the way.
SPEAKER 03 :
How’s that going to affect the total budget?
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, they’re already way upside down as it is. I talked about that yesterday. Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, what are they going to do?
SPEAKER 13 :
They’re in a world of hurt. They’ve got to figure out what they’re going to cut out.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, this isn’t Colorado. This is Denver.
SPEAKER 13 :
This is the city of Denver.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right, and the city of Denver is already in terrible shape. Real quick, here, before we go to Dave, they’re in terrible shape because they’ve lost so many big renters downtown. Those skyscrapers, they’re losing a lot of money.
SPEAKER 13 :
Correct. Dave, go ahead.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, you know, when it comes to the… denver post building another question you need to be asking is why haven’t they been paying the rent is it possible that the denver post might finally be going under possibly a blessing i would think and maybe that’s why they’re not paying their rent possibly but where would we get our good accurate fair reporting there you go that’s what i’m saying have you ever had it from the denver post i don’t think so uh the other thing i’m with andy uh when it comes to the supreme court If we’re going to get somebody, let’s get an 8-year-old, because I’ll guarantee you that 8-year-old knows the difference between a man and a woman, unlike Tangy Brown. That’s good.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, I can’t argue that one.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. And if we could, if I had my choice, Ted Cruz would be great, but I think a good firebrand to have up there who’s got a breadth of knowledge when it comes to law would be Trey Gowdy. He’s not doing anything right now. I think he would be pretty good up on the Supreme Court. And I agree that we’ve really got to push that because politics right now at the national level seems really pretty fluid. And thankfully the president is moving quickly to get things done because I think he realizes that things can change overnight and we’ve got to move quickly to make things happen. So I agree that we’ve got to push those older SCOTUS justices to step aside because you’ve got to realize, too, how long is the confirmation process? Democrats are going to fight tooth and nail. Exactly. And they’re going to dig everything and anything up that they can, and that can be drawn out for months.
SPEAKER 03 :
It will be.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s got to be done quickly. Yeah, it’s got to be done quickly.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I agree. By the way, Dave, we’ve got two who could step down. How about both Gowdy and? Cruz. Cruz. You know, one of the big advantages of Ted Cruz, of course, is that he’s from Texas. We know we can get another Republican elected there to replace him. Yeah, that one’s easier.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. And when it comes to the state races here, I think what Polis would do is, should Bennett win, he would just be a placeholder. Since the Democrats have control of the state, he would just be a placeholder at that position for the Senate, since they’ve already got it sewn up. And he would just, by this time until 2028, he’d get the name recognition for two years up in the Senate, and then he would run for president. Because he wouldn’t have to worry about me or the Democrats about losing that seat, because really, as disheartening as it sounds, they have control of the mechanisms of state government. So, you know, they’re not going to lose the seat anytime soon.
SPEAKER 13 :
Can’t argue. Yeah. Nope. That’s fair. Nope. I think you’re right. Yep. Dave, we’re going to break. Appreciate you very much. We’ve got a guest joining us here in just a couple of minutes. Dr. Scott’s coming up next. Speaking of the medical end of things and your care and all of that, make sure that you’ve got that dialed in. Dr. Scott is there to take care of you, and he does it the way that you need it done, not the way that big pharma or big health care feels it needs to be done. 303-663-6990.
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SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
Now, back to Rush to Reason. And we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Appreciate you. Say that again, Charlie. And Donya joining us now. Donya Greenberg, welcome. How are you?
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m very glad to be here. Thank you, John, for your time.
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Author of Biblical Feminism, Provoking Humanity to Restore the True Value of Women. You also are the founder of the popular Tree of Life Bible Translation. Talk to us about not only your book, but… just this whole topic and where we have gone, where we have come from and where we are today when it comes to, especially the female part of all of this. I want to talk a little bit later in our program about the male sides of things. I had a question that came in from a listener that I’ll cover next hour, but let’s talk about the female side right now.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, I think that cancel culture destroys humanity, and we need to hear the second voice in creation, right? The second witness to creation is women. And women think differently than men, we have different priorities than men, and we read the Bible and glean different things out of it. So giving women a way to connect with the Bible and encouraging them to read the Bible for themselves is really the backbone of our country, is when the women of God are teaching our children that faith in God comes first, and faith in Yeshua is what leads us to the Father.
SPEAKER 03 :
Dania, I know this is going to sound overly generalized because the American church has so many denominations, but women in the church today in America, how do you think it’s going? And what I mean is this, how do you think they are being treated? Do you think they are represented well, overrepresented, underrepresented, wrongfully represented, wrongfully taught? How do you think the church is handling women in America?
SPEAKER 08 :
Great question. I think that we’re the most underserved population. I think when all we hear are male teachers of the Bible, and we’re told that we’re not allowed to teach because of one verse in the book of Timothy, we negate the fact that women are the ones who create character, right? We’re the ones who raise children. We’re the ones that God gave the gift of life to, that we would bring children into the world. And what you learn by the time you’re seven is what you believe when you’re 70. The very basis of what we believe comes from what our mother learned. But in order for women to really understand their relationship with God, they have to read the Bible for themselves. That’s really the backbone of biblical literacy in America, is women in their Bibles.
SPEAKER 13 :
And as you know, too, and I think Andy probably would agree with this, some—Andy was talking about denominations a moment ago—some do really well at what you’re talking about, while others don’t. And I’m sorry to say that, but that’s just the facts.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it’s hard to talk about because people feel so bad about it. But there’s really no, there’s such hope in the future. Women in reading their Bibles for themselves and going to church and supporting their husbands in leadership, all of that’s really important. But the women’s psyche, the way that we understand the God of the Bible is by studying the Bible and reading the text for ourselves. I’ll tell you where it kind of starts, and I don’t know that men really understand this, but in the garden, in the garden is where it starts. The first word that God speaks to a man is, where are you? Right? But likewise, in the same sentence, he says, in the next few verses, he says, what did you do to a woman? Well, believe it or not, women will take that and apply it to themselves, always feeling like the lesser party when there’s the two of them in the garden. But that’s not the way God sees it. If you go back to the Hebrew language, the word male and female are not complementary. They’re uniquely distinct. And women hear God’s voice uniquely as women. And that has to be celebrated.
SPEAKER 13 :
No, Andy and I, it’s funny. We were talking at the top of the hour about discernment and how most women are, not all, but they’re in general, and I’m talking for all of you listening, all of this conversation isn’t, there’s always exceptions to the rule, and I get that, Donya, but we’re talking very general with all of this, at least I am. And when it comes to discernment, typically most women are very good discerners of people, situations, personalities, whether this person is actually legit or are they not legit. I mean, women are pretty good at that, which I’ll just tell you straight up, we men typically are not. We’re gullible.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I think that valuing the discernment of women is a really great first step to take. it comes down to a matter of, do you trust women? Do you trust women? And the question is, does God trust women? Well, He gave us the gift of life.
SPEAKER 13 :
My answer is absolutely. There’s a lot of times where I’ll go to my wife and say, okay, what do you think about such and such, or what do you even think about this particular person? Because again, she’s got a lot more discernment, and I’ll give her full credit, because she’s got discernment I don’t have, and so there’s times where I’ll say, You know, what do you think about such and such? And I know, Andy, you do the same thing. And, you know, what my wife says, in most cases, I’m gleaning and learning from because she sees things that I don’t see.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, she’s your partner, right? A biblical feminist is committing to building family across generations. We want to work with men to find solutions. I’m done complaining about misogyny or hurt feelings. It’s really about following God’s favor and And when a husband trusts his wife to discern a situation, that woman doesn’t need to be empowered. She has your favor. Women walk by favor. It’s a beautiful thing that God has given us as a gift.
SPEAKER 13 :
So where did we get off track and not, I mean, for me, this seems pretty simplistic and something that I, no offense, I relate to very well. I assumed most men did this. I guess I’m wrong.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it’s been really difficult. So I was married to a Jewish man, right? We’re Jewish believers in Jesus. So I learned the Old Testament and the New Testament like a two-wheeled bicycle. I read them both sequentially together.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wonderful.
SPEAKER 08 :
So there’s just something beautiful about learning the Jewish roots of the faith, because when you get back to the Hebrew words and realize that men and women are distinct, distinctly unique, and yet we’re also, as their conigdo, right? We’re created… to help one another and to see over one another’s shoulders to what’s coming at us. We don’t fight back-to-back as if saving ourselves is saving each other. Instead, we cling to one another to watch each other from across and see what’s coming. That really is the miracle of marriage, is that we’re meant to be in partnership, unique, unique parallel partnership with men.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I’ve been married 22 years, and she is yet to be wrong. So, you know, she’s undefeated. She’s doing very well. I’m very impressed. Danielle, let me ask on the other side here, because we’ve talked here about the unique aspects of women and what they bring to a relationship that men can be missing. How about the other way around? What do men bring to a relationship that women can be missing? Because I believe the two are equally valuable and complimentary.
SPEAKER 13 :
I’m with you on that one. Absolutely. Yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m so glad you asked that question. Can I just tell you that strong women love strong men? Oh, yeah. They’re not complimentary in a way where we cancel each other out. We’re there to support each other, to be strong together, to raise strong families.
SPEAKER 15 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 08 :
And there’s nothing I love more than a husband who is strong and righteous, that chooses to do the right thing to honor God in his decision-making, because that makes a woman feel safe and makes the family covered. I will tell you this. I don’t think that most people understand that the reason that women are not named in the Bible is really God’s grace to hide children. God has put women in the place of standing between the husband and the child in the area of protection. If every woman was outed for her feelings, right, and every woman was named, we wouldn’t really understand that God is about protecting children. And when you break down the relationship between men and women and put them against each other, The ones who really suffer are the children.
SPEAKER 03 :
Good point. Well, I would hope that men wouldn’t be a threat to their children. Some are. Some are, yeah.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’ll tell you something. The most important thing that a man can do is celebrate who his wife is and show his children, both his sons and his daughters, that together they make a fantastic team in leading the family. That’s what we need to see more in churches. Honestly, if it was up to me to fix, I will tell you that. When my first husband, Rabbi Mark, before he went to be with the Lord, when we would lead congregational services, you saw both of us leading together because we trust each other and we were in partnership. Then if you add to that, including the children to learn the Bible along with their parents, we can reconvene the family unit together. inside the church environment and really bring healing and restoration to our whole country.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I think what I have seen in a lot of young marriages, because I’ve seen a lot of young marriages in the church, is that it goes both ways. I have seen women who undermine the man, and I’ve seen men who undermine the women. And I’ve seen it go both ways. Bottom line, people are sinners, and therefore they are selfish. And I, yeah, what I, what I see a lot of the, is this, that either the man or the woman, or maybe even both, right? If you’ve got a really dysfunctional marriage, they can undermine each other. And that’s very hard on the kids because what the kids need to see is what you were talking about. They need to see a unified front from the parents who look at the kids and say, look, we put you first and we put God above all, and we do it together. And too often, I don’t think they see that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. Let me make this really clear, because this is where in the Bible, if you get taught the wrong thing, you’ll believe the wrong thing. Let me clarify this for you real quick. In the garden, there was the tree of life and the tree of knowledge, and the tree of knowledge was good and evil, right? So if all you teach is that there’s a tree of knowledge and there’s good and evil, then there’s two humans in one tree. So then knowledge is what divides us. Instead, look at it in a more Hebraic mindset. There’s the tree of life and the tree of knowledge. Man and woman stand between them together. It’s Satan that wants to come between us and pit us against each other. If you only teach that there’s one tree in the garden, then you put man and woman on either side of it, and there’s good and evil, Adam and Eve. Do you get my point, gentlemen? Eve and evil are not the same word in Hebrew.
SPEAKER 03 :
I never thought they were. I don’t know anybody who thinks that women are equated with evil. Maybe some very bitter divorced men? Maybe.
SPEAKER 08 :
But would you think about the root word for a minute, though? Think about this, guys. It goes male and female, like female has a prefix on male. They’re interrelated. According to Hebrew, they’re not. They’re zakar and nekevah, two totally disparate, two totally different words. Sure. But then in the English, eve and evil, right? And just follow me here for a second. Just think about how women think, okay? If there’s a good person in the garden and an evil person in the garden because there’s only one tree, where do you think that lets your mind wander? Meanwhile, think about it this way. Life and knowledge, male and female. Okay? together we find our place in God. The enemy comes to divide us, to pit us against each other. If we would just stop letting the enemy do that and work as a team in ministry, in life, in family, that would change the whole narrative. If we would remember there’s two trees in the garden, two people together between them, And the enemy is a liar. He divided them. The tree didn’t divide them.
SPEAKER 13 :
I had that same conversation with one of my clients today. It’s funny, we’re talking about that very same thing. And yeah, and I think people forget, Donya, at times that, you know, Satan is evil, absolutely to the utmost. Absolutely. But he is a deceiver. He can make things seem very beautiful. He can make things seem like they aren’t. I mean, he does all sorts of things to try to deceive, as you said a moment ago, all of us, male and female, and to your point, pit each other against one another.
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s right. It’s the same thing with life and choice, right? You can’t pit life against choice. The Bible says, choose life so you and your seed may live. We choose life because that’s what God commands in His Word. We choose unity in a couple because it brings forth life. That’s why a couple that doesn’t, you just have to recognize that God loves life. He’s a God of life. He has nothing to do with death. That’s right. He’s a God of resurrection, new beginnings, and life. That’s the God that we serve. And that’s what I want to celebrate. And I want women to feel like they have a place in the kingdom of God. They have a place in their family. They are trusted and they’re loved. Loved by God. Think about it this way. In the Bible, right, the Son of God, right, Son of God, Son of Man. Son is clearly defined. People rarely talk about daughter. You know, daughter doesn’t even arrive until after the birth of Seth in the biblical literature. And this is fascinating to me, because daughter of Zion, Zion is the name of a fertilized egg. Do you know men are purpose-driven, women are presence-driven? Correct. Daughter of Zion is a place where God creates life. Daughters should feel so excited about being a daughter of God, just like men want to be like the Son of God. Daughters need to understand that God loves them, and there is a place for them. We’re in the Bible, we are in the garden, and we are in God’s plan for the redemption of mankind. And don’t let the enemy lie to you that that’s not true.
SPEAKER 13 :
Absolutely. Yep, fully agree. All right, how do folks get the book?
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, the book is on Amazon. You can look at TLVBibleSociety.org to learn more about us. We have a TLV Bible app out. Please learn more about the Jewish roots of the faith. It will encourage you that Jesus died for all and for each of us individually.
SPEAKER 13 :
Amen. Donya, thank you. I appreciate it very much. Great words of wisdom.
SPEAKER 08 :
God bless you. Thank you for having me. No, you’re very welcome.
SPEAKER 13 :
Appreciate it very much. And it’s funny, I was texting some folks yesterday talking about that very thing, that, you know, those of you that are Jew haters, like, how can you be knowing what she just said? Yeah. I couldn’t have said it any better. The foundation of our faith, that’s where it comes from. We were grafted in, Andy, as it says.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, far too many people want to replace—what they say is the Christians are the new Israel, and therefore we’ve replaced the old Israel, so usher them out. And I’m just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, no.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, you’re missing the point. Yeah, you just heard her say the same thing.
SPEAKER 03 :
The Old Testament’s still there, guys.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, it didn’t go anywhere.
SPEAKER 03 :
No.
SPEAKER 13 :
He came to fulfill it, not— Christ came to perfect it, not to ruin it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, not to cast it aside. That’s right.
SPEAKER 13 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
Listen online, klzradio.com. Back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 13 :
All right, really quick, that last conversation, as I said, a lot of what we talked about were in generals. Are there some great churches out there to where what she was talking about does not happen and women are, in fact, in some cases, Andy, I think maybe the church might even be a little too feminine because women have too much quote-unquote power when it’s all said and done?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, it’s very diverse.
SPEAKER 13 :
I think it can go both ways, but I do understand where she’s coming from and, frankly, have been around far too many churches that are very much the way she was discussing it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, there are churches that flat out have women under their heel.
SPEAKER 13 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 13 :
And that’s what she’s talking about.
SPEAKER 03 :
And there are churches also, though, that are heavily feminized.
SPEAKER 13 :
And I mean, a lot of them.
SPEAKER 03 :
I would say most of the church in America today is too feminine. is too feminine.
SPEAKER 13 :
As far as how it looks and feels and acts and so on.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and I don’t think that’s uniquely the church. I’m just saying that most of America is. We’ve talked about this before because multiple generations have been raised almost entirely by one gender. If two people get divorced, the woman is almost always going to get the kids. This is just the way it goes.
SPEAKER 13 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’ve never had kids, so this doesn’t affect me.
SPEAKER 13 :
No, you’re correct.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let me ask you this, because she said that men are purpose-driven and women are presence-driven. Okay. First of all, that’s nice to know I have purpose. I never knew this. I’ll tell my wife that. Let me ask you this. When you talk to the elderly and you talk to like a grandma or a grandpa. Why does the grandpa want to talk about what you’re doing with your life, and why does the grandma want to talk about relatives?
SPEAKER 13 :
Because women— They always want to talk about, here’s Aunt Sue’s rheumatism is acting up. That’s a great question. Most women are—she’s right. Most women—I would have said it a little bit differently. She says, you know, purpose versus presence. Most men, they get their self-worth out of what they’ve accomplished, what they’ve done.
SPEAKER 03 :
So we are human doings, not human beings.
SPEAKER 13 :
Human doings. That’s exactly right. That’s where we get our value, if you would. And women, on the other hand, they get their value out of raising a home, raising a family. That’s why women have a hard time changing some of those things, going from one home to another, the sale of, the move, and so on. Most women are nesters. They want to make things all right for the family because that’s where their worth comes from. So she’s right. They’re living in the being, the presence, where we men are purpose-driven.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s always just amazed me, and I know we’ve got to go to break, but… No, no break.
SPEAKER 13 :
We go to the end.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, okay. You know, my mom, when she… And, you know, she passed a number of years ago due to breast cancer. But in her last several years when I did see her, obviously I’m very alienated from my family, but when I did see her, she would immediately go into talking about all kinds of relatives I haven’t seen in 30 years.
SPEAKER 13 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, people I don’t know.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yep, you’re right. You’re right.
SPEAKER 03 :
My dad… It would be talking about, you know, what are you doing with your life? Obviously sports, because we have that in common. But it’s just so different, the topics. And what I’ve noticed is this is true of a lot of families.
SPEAKER 13 :
It’s probably true of every family, Andy, to a certain degree. Now, there are some, as I said, even to her, there are some exceptions to this. For example, there are some women out there that are extremely purpose-driven. They want to make sure that they’re doing well in their career and what they’ve accomplished and so on. But that’s not normal for most women.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, you’ve got a daughter. The mom will push the daughter. Why haven’t you had kids yet?
SPEAKER 13 :
True. Some dads care because they want grandkids, but not like moms do.
SPEAKER 03 :
Not at all like moms.
SPEAKER 13 :
The moms are more the pusher than the dads are.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s why I was asking, why is that?
SPEAKER 13 :
Because of the nesting and that whole family aspect of what you were just talking about, that whole presence and being and so on.
SPEAKER 03 :
The dad is more there just to judge the quality of the husband you got.
SPEAKER 13 :
I like him.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t like him.
SPEAKER 13 :
And or protect you from the knucklehead you might want to marry. Yeah. No, that’s very true. He’s a bum. Again, nothing that she said is wrong. I will say that maybe because of me, I’ve never looked at the Eve in evil, frankly, until she said that. I have never once in my entire life ever associated Eve with evil. Not one time. Because of the E-V-E and E-V-I-L, I’ve never associated it that way in my entire life.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, that wouldn’t occur to me. I would just as quickly say evening, eve, whatever.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, that one’s never come across my brain.
SPEAKER 03 :
But maybe that was different in her church.
SPEAKER 13 :
Well, yeah, I mean, everybody’s got different experiences and things that they’ve been around and grown up with and so on, and I’m sure there are those extremes out there where there’s some folks that probably would very much agree with her. I just, I’ve never thought of it that way.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, I know you have sons. You have daughters?
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Have you gone through the joy? Because I’ve never had kids, but the one thing I missed out on is having a daughter so that I could put the young man through a living hell. Oh, I did that plenty.
SPEAKER 13 :
Yeah, yeah. Was that fun? It was nerve-wracking. Is it really? It’s fun sometimes to an extent, but nerve-wracking because you want what’s best for your kids.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, but isn’t it kind of fun putting them through the ropes?
SPEAKER 13 :
Oh, I don’t know if fun’s the right word. Okay. I wouldn’t use the term fun. It’s a concern because as a dad, again, you want what’s best for your kids, especially your girls. Right. Because you want them to have the best when it’s all said and done. Because as a dad, typically you provided the best. You want that same thing moving forward.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, they always say the two strongest relationships are father-daughter, mother-son. Yep, that’s very true.
SPEAKER 13 :
All right, we’ve got another full hour coming your way. Don’t go anywhere. We’ve got a guest joining us at the top of the hour. We’re going to talk about Newsom, by the way. We’ll be right back. This is Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 1 :
I’m a rich guy
