Andy Peth filled in for John Rush and brought humor, depth, and conviction to this episode of Rush to Reason. Joined by Tanner Coleman and Rachel Mains from KLTT 670, the team took on two hot-button topics: women leaving the church and America’s tipping culture.
They began with a heartfelt segment on the passing of Dick Cheney, reflecting on civility, prayer, and how Christians should love even their enemies. Then, Rachel and Andy tackled the surprising data showing that men now outnumber women in church attendance—a deep dive into why younger women are leaving and how cultural confusion, weak male
SPEAKER 05 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 13 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 14 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 13 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did!
SPEAKER 04 :
Get a job, Turk! You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 07 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know, you can’t explain. But you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life. That there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind? It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I’m your host, Andy Pate, filling in for John Rush. John is off for the rest of the week. So we are all incredibly lonely. I know I am. But I’m not too lonely because I’m joined today by Tanner Cole. Man. That’s right. He is all man.
SPEAKER 10 :
And nothing but it.
SPEAKER 03 :
I know. This is why Rachel Maines is in with us as well.
SPEAKER 11 :
I’m not all man. I’m all woman.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Now, because Tanner is here, you know, he’s so much man. This is why, in case Rachel’s wondering why there are women crawling up the side of the building always.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, we always have to stop the ladies from coming in the studio. That’s why the door’s locked.
SPEAKER 03 :
We have armed guards, and they’re shuddering. They don’t like being at the front of the lines, trying to wall them out from you.
SPEAKER 10 :
If they gave me estrogen, my body would just reject it.
SPEAKER 03 :
I know. It really would. It really would. Okay. Hey, guys, we’re going to be talking a lot this hour about women leaving the church, actually, and that’s why I’ve got Rachel Maines in here. By the way, where do you work, Rachel?
SPEAKER 11 :
AM 670 KLTT The Truth. So definitely tune in Christian Talk and we have a lot of great programs. So tune in every day and it’d be nice to have you tune in and join Christian Talk and good programming.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you see, this is wonderful. Tanner, we actually have the truth in here for once. Because usually it’s me and Tanner.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, because you have a woman in here. That’s why.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, we don’t do truth. Tanner and I, you know, we brag about our cars. But this is good. Hey, folks, we’re going to be talking about women leaving the church. And that’s why I wanted Rachel to come in. We’re going to be talking about tipping this hour. Now, I know you’re thinking, hey, today’s election day. Don’t worry. The next two hours are going to be all about elections and stuff like that. We’re going to have Jersey Joe in hour two, Eli Bremer in hour three. We’ve got a full day. But first, we have had a death. We’ve lost somebody very close, and that is Dick Cheney. Now, I know what a lot of people are thinking. I’ll get to that in a moment. But I want to offer our condolences and heartfelt prayers and thoughts for Dick Cheney’s family, for the entire Cheney family, because this is a terrible thing when you lose somebody who’s so dear to you. Now, Dick Cheney was, of course, very, very loyal to the Republican Party up until I know the very end. We’ll talk about that in a second. But he served Ronald Reagan very well. He spearheaded the movement to… basically counter the communists here in America and did an incredible job. He worked his tail off. He did. I think it’s really funny that a lot of Democrats at the time said that Dick Cheney was actually running the White House and not George W. Bush.
SPEAKER 10 :
Funny how that’s all turned out.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah, because now for the last four years, they didn’t seem to mind Joe Biden not running anything.
SPEAKER 10 :
You mean Obama’s third term.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly, Obama’s third term. And yet, I’m serious, it was the exact same people who complained that Cheney was running the White House during Bush. Now, I want to talk for just a few minutes here before we go to break about praying for and loving your enemies. And the reason I say this is not because Cheney was my enemy, but because he had so many. Dick Cheney, by the end. Was a very rare figure in political terms in that he was liked by nobody. Right. And this is true. Okay. Dick Cheney was obviously despised by the left. At the end, he voted, I believe, for Kamala. I’m not sure. If he did, he did it for his daughter. Right. Because she was, yeah, she had switched sides. And, you know, you have.
SPEAKER 10 :
She’s a rhino.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, she is. And you have loyalty. Look, I can’t stand Liz Cheney. I’ve been very open about this. I was very upset with the way everybody knows I’m a huge Trump fan. Love the guy. I think he’s the best president of my life. But would we want people to not offer their condolences and their heartfelt thoughts and prayers for the family if somebody on our side died? I don’t think so. You see, Dick Cheney, when he died, also was disliked by most of the right because of his war with Trump. And it wasn’t so much his war, but his daughter’s war with Trump. He said a few things, but it was really Liz who got into it. And so Dick Cheney left us as a man with really no political home. And this is incredible for a man who spent four decades dominating the political landscape up until Trump came along. And then you had the big fracturing. Folks, I think what we need to do is not be like the left.
SPEAKER 11 :
I agree.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t want to be them. OK, because, Rachel, what is the left going to do when whenever? Well, what did they do when Rush Limbaugh died? What do they do when Charlie Kirk died? What do they do when somebody on the right dies?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, yeah, they blame us, really. Yeah. And they celebrate it.
SPEAKER 03 :
They celebrate it. Yeah, exactly. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. They celebrate it. Do you want to be like the left? I mean, you wake up every morning saying, gee, I want to be like the left. I want to be hateful. No, I don’t want to be like them. So I don’t want to look at this guy who he at the end, he had no political home. Now, that was his own choice. That was his own doing. I understand that. But I don’t want to be like them. I don’t celebrate the deaths of anybody.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right, and as Christians, we should be different, and we should lead by example, for sure. Agreed, completely.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and by the way, are there people who, gee, I’m glad if they’re dead? Yes. Mass murderers. If they’re dead, guess what? Nobody else is going to get killed by them. I think that’s actually a very good thing. So there are people who do terrible things, and of course, you always have, and this is what I want to close with, you always have people who try to justify their hate by saying, Well, he caused the deaths of this many people, right? And they’ll say that of Dick Cheney, right, with going into Iraq. And they’ll say that with Donald Trump, they’ll say that he, you know, we had this genocide in Gaza because of his support for Israel. total lie but okay but they’ll say it right or we’ll have people on our side say about obama and biden or what about abortion right because of them millions and millions of the unborn died and also there were a lot of deaths in africa and places like this and we’ll say because of that my hatred for them is justified and it’s okay that i’m celebrating their death no folks No. OK, we’re not talking Jack the Ripper here. We’re talking people who have policy differences from us and whose actions when you are that much in charge, when you’re the president, vice president, when you’re in charge. OK, it is almost impossible for you to make decisions that cannot be seen by your opposition is causing a lot of deaths. Right. OK, because either you didn’t protect this group or you were too aggressive with that group, no matter what, no matter what. So anybody can use that excuse. So when you have an excuse that anybody can use, I don’t think you should use it. I think you should take a step back and do what Rachel Maynes just said. Be a Christian. Be kind.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, lead by example.
SPEAKER 03 :
Lead by example.
SPEAKER 11 :
And pray. It does say pray for your enemies. Yes. So that’s the most powerful thing too. And just to be kind. We don’t have to be unkind to people because they disagree with us. I hope that changes in our culture. There used to be a day that I remember where just because I disagreed with somebody didn’t mean that they hated me or they wanted me dead. But the political landscape has gotten so heightened right now that it’s come to that point where people… I could say not so much on the right side. I don’t see that. But more on the left, I do see people wanting to murder someone and thinking that’s okay because they’ve demonized our side so much.
SPEAKER 03 :
That really began with the gay movement, as a matter of fact, LGBT. And what it was is they decided that disagreement equals hate. If you disagree with their lifestyle, you hate them. And hate is not a family value. When they said hate is not a family value, all kinds of people like me were saying, what are you talking about? I don’t hate you. If I disagree with a lifestyle, my best friend at work was gay. Okay, and I disagree with the gay lifestyle. Why? Because I don’t look at hate and disagreement as the same thing.
SPEAKER 05 :
They shouldn’t be.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, if we only value people who agree with us, then we don’t value people at all. We only value agreement with them. Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
And then we don’t have critical thinking.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. You see, if I only value agreement with me, then the only person I value is me. That’s pretty selfish. I’d like us to be unselfish. I’d like us to think beyond what, you know, ourselves. And on a day like today, I’d like us to remember Dick Cheney’s family. And I’d like us to pray for them. I’d like us to honor the memory. And I’d like us to not think about, oh, my gosh, I’m glad that, you know, my enemy, the person I propped up as a villain is gone now. I don’t want us to think that way, folks. Yeah, I can understand that with mass murderers, the real kind, the kinds who actually do it. Right. But not people who disagreed with us. Amen? Amen. All right. Folks, let’s take a break. When we come back, we’re going to talk about women leaving the church. Did you cause it, Rachel?
SPEAKER 11 :
Maybe. Maybe I did.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t think so. Let’s take a break. Up next is Veteran Windows and Doors. Go ahead, shop around, but don’t sign anything. Veteran beats national retailers by a mile, giving you more bang for your buck. Call Veteran at 303-529-0720.
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SPEAKER 14 :
God. Country. Reason. Now back to John Rush.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason. Denver’s Afternoon Rush. KLC 560. Andy Pate filling in for John Rush along with Tanner Cole. Man. And Rachel Maines from… Woohoo!
SPEAKER 11 :
AM 670 KLTT.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s right. Okay, Rachel, you are in the church. But guess what? A lot of women are leaving it.
SPEAKER 11 :
I know. You know, it’s interesting. I know you’re going to read some facts right there. Yeah. But the age, the younger generation, what, 25? You’ll read the facts or so. Yeah, keep going. So a lot of my friends in my age group have complained there’s not enough men. And now the younger generation, guys are going to church and the ladies are leaving. So, you know, I kind of wish I was a younger generation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you know, this is interesting that you say that because this is a very recent phenomenon, okay? Up until the last five, six years, women were the primary people in the church, okay? The church was mostly women. It has switched with the younger generation. This is from Barna. Do you ever read from Barna? There are statistics. They do a great job on the church.
SPEAKER 11 :
Not much. I need to read more.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, they do a great job. Here we go. 43% of men And 36% of women report attending church regularly based on reported weekly attendance. That is a total switch. It is now a 7% difference, but that has actually been growing now over the last five years. About five years ago was the first time that men were starting to actually attend church more than women. And we’re just talking America, by the way, not Western civilization.
SPEAKER 11 :
And what’s the age group? Is it the younger generation, though?
SPEAKER 03 :
It is the younger generation that’s driving it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, the younger generation. And what is happening? Well, in 2025, and I think a lot of this is because of Charlie Kirk, there’s been a real spike amongst men especially. But men, for the most part over the last five years, have been rather flat in their attendance, rising maybe slightly. Women have been dropping like a rock. And we’ll get to why in a moment. Were you going to say something there, Tanner? Okay. Let me give a few more things here really quick here. Pew Research Center. Now, I don’t really buy when they do the polling on the church because Pew Research, what they describe as a Christian, is an incredibly broad definition that I don’t buy.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m sorry. Let me give you some examples. They say on abortion, more than 6 in 10, 61% of young Christian women say abortion should be legal in all or most cases. Okay. Would you consider all of those to be Christian women?
SPEAKER 06 :
No.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. No. That’s a hard no. I think you’re casting a pretty broad net, a wide net, and it’s a broad net also with men. Here you go. 48% of young Christian men, they say, say the same. Okay. Still, come on.
SPEAKER 01 :
I’m sorry.
SPEAKER 03 :
Young Christians are less supportive of legal abortion than their peers, but the drop-off in support is substantially larger amongst women versus men. Okay. Next thing, homosexuality. Okay. 75%, once again, we’re talking disagreement, not hate, folks. 75% of young Christian women say it should be accepted, that homosexuality should be accepted. I’m sorry, that goes directly against biblical teaching. It does.
SPEAKER 10 :
It’s unbelievable.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t say that as a hater. You do what you want with your life. Live your life. Gay Republicans love them. Let’s win together. I don’t care.
SPEAKER 10 :
Trans Republicans love them.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, they disagree with my lifestyle too. I’m a right-wing heterosexual Christian male. Okay, guess what? That’s fine. Disagreeing with me doesn’t hate me. Okay, 75% of young Christian women say it should be accepted, according to Pew Research. 49% of young Christian men agree. That’s a 26-point gap.
SPEAKER 10 :
I’m surprised that many men even say that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And a lot of these, what they call a church man, of course, is a very loose definition. But still, wow. Okay, next. 54%, and we’re almost done with these folks, of young Christian women. believe that greater acceptance of transgenders is a positive development, 54%, over half. Okay. Now, folks, as I always say, being transgendered, you’re beyond gay. This isn’t gay. You literally believe that you are in the wrong body. You believe that you’re being held captive in the wrong body. That’s a mental illness. If I believe that I was, you know, a Wimbledon champion who was being held in the body, this body instead, you would think I was nuts, okay? It doesn’t make any sense. If I thought I was a Walmart executive who was trapped in this body, you would think I was pretty crazy, wouldn’t you, Rachel? Yes, absolutely. I mean, she’s looking at me like I am crazy. Well, there’s a point to be made, but not for that end. But you see what I mean. If you think that you are literally in the wrong body, I’m sorry, you’re nuts. You’re crazy. Oh, Andy, those are harsh. No, they’re not harsh things to say. You are mentally ill. Go ahead. Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, the key thing here is Bible believing Christians versus just, you know, calling yourself Christian and we can, you know, just make up what we want to make up.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
But here’s the thing that I think in the future. Well, definitely what the Biden administration was happening is the hate speech of the Bible. Right. Because the Bible disagrees with homosexuality.
SPEAKER 01 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
Transgenderism. And it has, you know, God’s precepts to how man should live. But out of love, he put the commandments in there because he created us and he wants us to live together. a good life.
SPEAKER 03 :
Basically, to the Biden administration, the Bible was sin. Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, exactly. To their religion.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, I wanted to get into why we’re actually seeing some of this. And the reason I’m so surprised by this is when I look at the church setting, first, I want to talk about guys and we’re going to get to you. We got a whole other segment after this. Tanner, when I look at the church setting, it’s very feminine. It really is. A lot of churches, you go to them, first you do the worship singing, and it’s like about a half hour of soft, relational, lovey-dovey, Jesus is my buddy kind of stuff, right? And I mean, how many guys in their off time would choose to do that with a half hour of their life?
SPEAKER 10 :
Not a lot.
SPEAKER 03 :
Not a lot?
SPEAKER 10 :
I mean, I sing in the car, but Lovey Dovey is a whole other story.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
I’m going to listen to ACDC versus Janis Joplin or something.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, okay. Well, great. Way to admit that. No, ACDC is great. Okay. So you would do that. I mean, how many guys, small groups? A lot of churches today are really pushing you to get in a small group. Now, the sad reason, one big sad reason why, and I know they say it’s because it’s to foster relationships. Folks, a big reason is customer retention. They know that if you develop friendships in the church, you’re less likely to leave.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, and I’m sorry. That’s just true.
SPEAKER 1 :
100%.
SPEAKER 03 :
But these small groups are largely a time of getting together for about an hour and a half.
SPEAKER 11 :
And sharing feelings. Yes.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sharing feelings.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you. No, I went to actually a singles group where the singles group started to kind of go into that where we would break up into groups at tables and ask these really deep questions about our faith. And slowly after that, you started to see the guys drop off. Yes. Oh, no.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because it was all this personal interconnectedness and all this kind of stuff. I love when they made fun of this, by the way, in Awesome Powers. where they had Dr. Evil and his son Scott go to counseling together, and they were in a group. And the guys, you know, dad and his son are hugging. I love you, dad. I love you, and so forth.
SPEAKER 10 :
I’m so sorry.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’m so sorry. And, of course, Dr. Evil, that didn’t work too well for him. And it was really funny because they were making fun of these small groups. But let me ask you, Tanner, okay? In your off time, do you want to go have a couple beers at the sports bar and watch a few games with the guys? Do you want to go golfing with the guys? Do you want to go hiking or doing something? Maybe even, you know, getting together and working on someone’s yard. Do something. Do you want to do that with the guys? Or do you want to get and sit in one place for an hour and a half and relate to each other?
SPEAKER 10 :
All I do is watch sports, play golf with the guys, so… Yeah, I’d rather watch sports.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, you’re a terrible hedonist, okay? I mean, my gosh, playing golf when you should be sitting down and sobbing over your emotions together. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER 10 :
I’ll pass.
SPEAKER 03 :
But, Rachel, I mean, am I making sense? I mean, the setting itself of the church is extremely feminine.
SPEAKER 10 :
You’ve got the flowers, the beautiful artwork.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, we don’t even talk about being saved anymore. We talk about my personal relationship with Christ. Right. Okay. You know, I got news for you. I don’t really have so much personal relationship with Christ. I have a submitted commitment to Christ. He’s the boss. And I’m cool with that. He’s the king. Yeah. I’m off the throne. He’s on the throne. I kind of like that. He’s in charge. Okay. The setting is a very feminine setting. So, Rachel, why are women leaving it?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, you know, we talked about this, some of your findings, but in that it’s very interesting. I think that this is kind of the shortest answer possible to this very big question. The educational system and the way the culture is going, for example, I believe they’re teaching secular humanism in schools, which is a religion. So belief systems are your religion. And so if your belief system is abortion is okay, and if you don’t like the way that the society is set up, and you don’t like men because you think that they’re going to domineer over you, be domineering over you, then you can start to take that into the church setting and say, you know, I disagree with this. You know, you have to be for abortion. Although there are a lot of churches that are for abortion.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. A lot of liberal churches. But, you know, you make a great point. Before you run on from that.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what a lot of the churches have done to respond to this is compromise. Yeah. Okay. They try to compromise their way into the hearts and minds of Americans. Is it working? Are they getting bigger? No. No, they’re getting smaller. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah. Yeah. I mean… The big key word here is, too, they’re going out of the biblical text into just making your own church. And you can slap Christian on it. So it’s not the biblical body of Christ. And also I would say the real church are those who are believers in Christ who are born again by his spirit, by the Holy Spirit. So the church in the survey, in the poll, you know, that’s just quote unquote the church. But the real church are those who actually know Christ.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. I mean, pure research is going to say that everybody who claims to be a Christian is a Christian, right? What does Jesus say in Matthew 7? Many will come on that day and say, Lord, Lord, did I not do this for you? Do that in your name. Do this in your name. And I will say, I never knew you. Depart from me. Right. Okay. In other words, tons of people who say they are, aren’t. Right. Okay. In the next segment. I’m going to get into what I believe is a lot of the big reason that women don’t like the church. Okay. And I think you just hit on a big part of it. I think our society has really trained them not to like biblical principles.
SPEAKER 01 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
Because they believe they’re oppressive. Let’s talk about that when we come back, because I think you’re going to find it fascinating. Up next is Cub Creek Heating and Air. Winter is near. It’s almost here, folks. Your heater has been ignored for six months. Make sure it’s running its best with a checkup from Cub Creek at 303-656-5467.
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SPEAKER 14 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason. Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560, Andy Pate filling in for John Rush along with Tanner Cole. Man. And Rachel Maines of?
SPEAKER 11 :
Hello, AM670.
SPEAKER 03 :
AM670. Rachel stepped out for a moment. And just so you know, Rachel, while you were gone, Tanner and I were totally lost.
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, well.
SPEAKER 03 :
He started crying and sobbing. It was terrible. He was on my shoulder.
SPEAKER 11 :
I’m the strong rock in the studio. And so, you know, it’s okay. I’m back. But I got to leave at 345 or so. So hopefully you guys can.
SPEAKER 03 :
We will move it along. Okay. Up next is somebody who never cries because he’s a real man, unlike Tanner. And that is John from Cheyenne. John, why do women leave the church?
SPEAKER 05 :
Because we’ve got to let away from scripture and we’re trying to make everybody feel good. And you should be thoughtful, not feeling good when you leave church, in my opinion. You should be thinking about what you just heard, maybe what the lesson was. My wife and I, we haven’t left the church. We go to this small church in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming, and there’s anywhere between 25 and 40 people. We have a pastor, and we study the Bible week by week. We don’t have—and he teaches the Bible, which— is great one of the great things i was just going to say is it took us andy are you ready with a couple of weeks off 90 weeks to get through the book of matthew wow well john in depth matthew is one of the great you can’t say they’re not all great but matthew is a great learning gospel oh yes if you aren’t convicted by matthew 6 you don’t have a heart man Oh, yeah. I think he spent like 11 weeks just on the sterming of the mount.
SPEAKER 03 :
Wow. John, so you like coming out of church with your mind being used, but aren’t you supposed to come out sensing and feeling God? Isn’t this supposed to be like a new age feeling thing? No. I’m serious. I have known plenty of pastors who literally did not believe that you were experiencing Christ enough if you didn’t feel and sense it emotionally. Wow.
SPEAKER 05 :
You should be thinking about, are you good enough? Are you a believer in Jesus Christ enough to say, oh, this week I did this and I did that, and I’ve got to try to do better, as opposed to, oh, God loves me and I feel great. Well, yes, God loves us. He loves us all. He gave us His Son. He sacrificed Him for our salvation. But that doesn’t mean we can just have to feel good all the time. We should be looking at ourselves. I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, my wife calls it ooshy-gooshy Christianity, you know.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, I can’t deal with it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, she can’t handle it either. I can’t deal with it. All right, John, got to let you go. Thank you so much, and we’ll talk to you later. Okay, Rachel. I’m going to tell you one big reason that I think that people, women are leaving the church, and that’s this. Some churches define male headship as male dominance. And I think they’ve really offended women. We just talked about all their beliefs. I believe that men, a lot of men don’t like the church setting. But I think American men don’t like the church setting, but I believe American women don’t like the biblical God because they’ve been given the wrong idea about the biblical God, and that’s our fault. What do you think?
SPEAKER 11 :
I agree. And part of this has happened, too, because the men have kind of left, you know? So we haven’t had any good examples of what a strong, good man is. I agree. I’m fortunate I have a great dad. So I had a great example my whole life. And, you know, he was just very kind, but also very… You know, discipline. We get discipline, but very loving, you know. So he modeled what it is to be a good dad, a good husband. We don’t have those examples if the men are leaving the church. And then now it’s coming where the women are leaving the church because they haven’t had that good example. But they’re also being told in our society that patriarchy is bad because they don’t know what it really looks like.
SPEAKER 03 :
I believe women are terrified of the church because of what they believe men are in the church. But I think they’re also the ones who stayed in the church are bored with the men. that the church is created. Let me explain what I mean by this. Okay, I’m going to say this, and it’s going to shock you. I believe even a liberal woman would love to be with a biblical man. Yes. Okay, and here’s what I mean. Ephesians 5, everybody always uses this. They always think that Paul was this big chauvinist or whatever, right? Ephesians 5 told us about wives submitting to your husbands. Okay, and this is the big one that upsets everybody. They don’t read the next part. Let me do it. uh first of all it says uh 521 through 25 submit to one another out of reverence for christ so right away what does it lead in with mutual submission okay then it says this wives submit to your own husbands as you would to the lord for the husband is the head of the wife as christ is the head of the church his body of which he is the savior now we’ll stop for just a moment Folks, that’s called male headship, and there’s a reason for it, okay? How many systems of anarchy have ever succeeded in world history, Tanner?
SPEAKER 10 :
Only so many.
SPEAKER 03 :
Zero.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, for not a long period of time.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yeah, yeah. Short periods of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I’m talking long term.
SPEAKER 10 :
Not at all.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. You’ve got to have somebody in charge, okay? The buck has to stop somewhere. In a marriage, you’ve only got two people. It’s one against one, okay? Hopefully not against. Right. And if you have an eternal one against one vote, what do you have? Anarchy. Somebody has to be the final decision. The leader. Right. Somebody’s got to be the final decision maker. And God made it easy. He says, OK, I’m going to choose this gender right here. That one. Right. Yeah. OK, the buck stops with you. That’s all male headship is. The buck stops with you. Notice nowhere does it say. Well, in the Greek, maybe. In the next words, do you think it says, and men, use this to be able to dominate your wife. You get to get your way on everything. This is going to be so great.
SPEAKER 11 :
Dominate and control.
SPEAKER 03 :
Dominate and control. Have them under your heel. Is that anywhere in the group?
SPEAKER 11 :
It says you should lay yourself down just like Christ laid himself down. And that’s the most loving, unconditional act ever. So, yeah, that’s beautiful.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. And let’s hear that next sentence. This is the part they don’t want to listen to. Now, as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands and everything. Okay. Men are feeling pretty puffed up. Husbands, love your wives. Oh, sure. It’s not done. Just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. Tanner, how did Christ give himself up for the church?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, I mean, he sent his son to die on a cross for all of us.
SPEAKER 03 :
He died on a cross. Okay. So did Christ put his needs or the church’s needs first? churches oh wait a minute gee golly that doesn’t sound like dominance does it
SPEAKER 10 :
Sounds like sacrifice. Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what God did was this. He said, look, you can’t have eternal one-against-one votes. That’s anarchy. It’s not going to work. That would be horrible for me to leave you in a system like that. I’m going to take one side and say the buck stops with him, but I want him to live sacrificially for her. Her needs come first. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 11 :
And any woman who had a man like that would be very, very happy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 11 :
But men need to see that role modeled because nobody knows that that – a lot of people –
SPEAKER 03 :
even in the church don’t see that role model well let me let me ask you this rachel you know i’ve been married 22 years who do you think gets their way most in our marriage me or my wife your wife it’s not even close why but but guess what why does my wife get her way most because of male headship right okay yes the buck stops with me how many times tanner do you think in 22 years because that how many times do you think i’ve had to make that final decision when she didn’t agree with it plenty no about a handful less you could count them on one hand 22 years why because i’m supposed to be a good steward of my resources remember that you know the scriptures on that part of my resources sources is her mind she has a mind i have a mind we have two minds and guess what there are a lot of areas where she’s smarter than me okay she’s better at something than i am Okay. It’s called humility, another aspect of Christ. Okay. So imagine that you have a humble man who understands, hey, in some areas, I’m smarter than her. I know this better. Other areas, she’s smarter than me. And we come to that area and I say, hey, honey, whatever you think, let’s do it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Now, is he submitting to her? No. He’s saying her mind is part of my resources. She’s smarter at this. Let’s go with what she says.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And that is what a real Christian man does. Okay, Rachel. Do you want the, let’s look at the two extremes of men. And this is, these are extremes that I believe we see in the church today, unfortunately. Okay. Because some churches cut off the last part of that scripture and have male dominance.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Do you want a man though, who is afraid of his own shadow?
SPEAKER 11 :
No.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. A guy who doesn’t want to lead, a guy who won’t lead, a guy who won’t make it. You want a guy who wants to talk to you and, you know, hash things out, but you want to know that he’s strong enough to make that final call. Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s very attractive.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want a strong man. So, you know, if you’ve got a guy who’s afraid of his own shadow, that’s not going to be – I’m just going to say it. It’s not sexy.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay? I mean, is that a real turn-on, the guy’s shrinking violet? No. No. Okay, well, what about the other one? What about a guy who dominates?
SPEAKER 11 :
No.
SPEAKER 03 :
And by the way, is either of those men strong?
SPEAKER 11 :
No. No. No, they’re both insecure. They’re both weak. And insecure, yep. Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
A strong man, a strong man says, the buck stops with me. That’s not a privilege. That is a responsibility. Right. And I can handle it. I got this. Okay. The buck stops with me, but you come first. And, you know, there’s guys out there listening right now who are saying, that’s unfair, Andy, man. Really? You’re thinking about your rights? Why? You sign those away the moment you put on this cross, which I’m wearing right now.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
If you’re worried about your rights, why’d you become a Christian?
SPEAKER 11 :
Or a husband.
SPEAKER 03 :
Or a husband. Or a wife. see what Paul is saying is that both genders need to set themselves aside okay now a lot of people say well we do it as a we live as a team we live as a team yes but even I don’t like that because the team means there’s no final buck stopping somewhere the buck has to stop somewhere right you can’t have two alphas butting heads no yeah Tanner you love the NFL how many teams don’t have a coach They all have a coach.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right, but, yeah, some have been fired.
SPEAKER 03 :
But you can look at some and say, basically, they don’t. I would agree with that. You can put me out there. How good are those teams?
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, they’re the worst in the league.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. You’ve got to have a strong leader, okay? Look, strong male headship is not dominance. It is the opposite. Okay, how many women would like this? I’m just going to describe it here. I’m going to sum it up, Rachel. A man who is strong, discusses everything using both your minds, willing to make the final call, but puts your needs ahead of his own. Even liberal women. How many liberal women would look at that and say, I don’t want that?
SPEAKER 11 :
I think every woman would love that. They just haven’t seen it in reality.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s the problem. I believe a lot of the reason women are leaving the church today, I do think there are some big misconceptions politically on things like abortion.
SPEAKER 1 :
100%.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Wouldn’t you say? I mean, Tanner, wouldn’t you say that basically our society has driven women into hating biblical principles?
SPEAKER 10 :
Oh, yeah. I mean, the whole just them, you know, being the nurturer instead of the leader, per se. I mean, most women my age want to be this boss lady thing. fully into their career, don’t care about ever marrying anyone. But in reality, I mean, it’s a lot better to be married with or centered around God than married and no center around God and she’s controlling or he’s controlling.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Both should be centered around God first. You see, and there’s another thing. I think a lot of the church wants women out of the workplace. Rachel, you’re a boss. You run KLTT.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. You are. KLTT. Okay. Now, what a lot of people, and I’m going to sum it up with this, and then I’m going to give you the last word. Sound good? That sounds good. Okay. A lot of people always forget it is not biblical to have the woman out of the workplace or never in charge. A woman can be a CEO. A woman can be president. A woman can be whatever. Okay. I’m totally cool with that. This idea that they can’t and that the Bible says that, that’s not in the Bible. Okay, that’s talking about the marital relationship one-to-one. The buck has to stop somewhere. Folks, that came with the Industrial Revolution. That took men out of the household for about 14 hours a day, 12, 14 hours a day, which left one gender to raise. Right. Everybody. OK, that was forced by economics. Before then, you had an agrarian society. Guess what? Both of them raise the kids. Guess what? Both of them work their tails off, both in the fields and in the home. Guess what? They did it together. But the buck stopped with him as he served her. It wasn’t a terrible thing. What we see today, that whole idea. Of women, you’ve got to get back in the house and only be there. You know, I’m fine with that. I think it’s great if a woman wants to be married and have kids and be at home. Wonderful. I’ll bet she’s a phenomenal mother. But the Bible doesn’t force that on you.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right. Well, it might even be more work dealing with kids than a typical job.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right, that’s a lot of work. And cleaning the house and cooking the meals, that’s a lot of work.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I think a lot of people have too little respect for moms. They think, oh, that’s easy. You need to get out there, honey.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I mean, that’s a lot of work. It’s from sunup to sundown. I haven’t been married, and I’m not a mom, but I just know. I have a little puppy, and she’s a lot of work.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, I want you to close with this. Yes, your puppy is a lot of work. I want you to close with this. You are a single woman in the church. You are the number one demographic leaving the church today. Talk about how awkward it can be in the church to be single and also not have kids.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right. You feel like, yeah, you’re kind of out of place, and it’s definitely a place for families. Yeah. And you want to meet somebody, and I have many single girlfriends, but none of the guys talk to you. For years, you can go into church and not have anybody say, hi, who are you? Are you kidding me? True. True story. I did go to singles groups and I’m still open to singles groups, but just have had bad experiences as well. So I don’t know. Those of you who are listening, you have a great church, you know, email, email us and give us some tips on that. But yeah, I just think the majority is kind of failing in this area, especially for single, single people and single women.
SPEAKER 03 :
OK, well, let’s sum it up with this then. Folks, the reason that women are leaving the church is not because of Jesus. It’s because of our bad impression we’ve given of Jesus to this culture. OK, we have either made men and with it’s a very feminine setting. The church is we’ve either made men into wimps. or dictators. Right. And there doesn’t seem to be much in between. And I’m telling you guys, it’s easy to be in between. It’s real easy. Okay. And it’s a lot of fun. And I think if we were that way more, I think women would come back. What do you think?
SPEAKER 11 :
I agree.
SPEAKER 1 :
100%.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Rachel, thank you so much for joining us one last time. How do people reach you?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, tune in to AM670 on the dial, or you can go to our website, 670, kltt670.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
Fantastic. Thanks, Rachel. Hey, folks, after the break, we’re going to be talking about tipping. Are you sick of being pushed into giving tips at restaurants? Up first is someone who would never do that, Michael Bailey Law. Your loved ones, they mean the most to you, so make sure your will is done and their future is secure. Don’t wait. Call Michael Bailey at 720-730-7274.
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SPEAKER 14 :
Now back to Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560, Andy Pate filling in for John Rush along with Tanner Cole. Okay, Tanner, we’re going to talk in these last few minutes about tipping at restaurants. John and I haven’t talked about this in a while, but it’s become a real big thing. People are getting, I think, angrier and angrier and angrier about tipping at restaurants. Why is that?
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, I mean, once you finish your meal, and you could have been there for 30, 40 minutes, and they bring you this little electronic screen. Tablet. Yeah, some of them start out 20%, some of them start out 18%, and can go all the way up to 25%. I’m no rich person to just be thrown around my money. I even watch how I tip. But if they do a good job, I’m going to give them at least 15, if not 20%. But sometimes you’re just at a place and you’re just there for a quick meal. They’re not interacting with you. You can tell there’s not really an extra incentive for them to do a good job. And there’s no problem with that. They’re doing their job. But that doesn’t mean I should tip you 25% out of my own pocket. wallet when you’re serving seven tables right now and you’re getting a ton of tips as well.
SPEAKER 03 :
And you didn’t do anything special.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right. And if someone does something special, goes over the top, is very engaging, I mean, I think that’s a great reason to tip someone.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, then you bump it up.
SPEAKER 10 :
More times than not, I don’t have that experience. Maybe if I’m at a nicer establishment, but most of the time it’s not the great or not a super nice establishment. They’re just there doing their job. What do you want? Okay, see ya. And it’s like, well… In my opinion, I wouldn’t even want to tip that much just for simple service in the first place, but I know I would get scolded and ridiculed for not. And I think some people don’t have as much pride in their job anymore, especially ones like that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, but at that point, you’re guilt tipping people. Okay. Do you want a guilt tip? No. And by the way, have you seen these screens? My wife, she hates these and they have them some downtown where they’ll literally have the lower percentage. Like it’ll show you can hit 15, 20, 25. And the 15 has a frowny face. Then you have a normal face at 20 and 25. It has a happy face under it.
SPEAKER 10 :
I was taught 15% was good service.
SPEAKER 03 :
But, I mean, what a thing to say to people.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right. Well, it’s basically saying you’re a bad person if you don’t give me your money.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 10 :
Which is unbelievable. I work for my money. I mean, I’m not going to just hand it over. If you provide a better than expected experience, I’ll happily award you for that.
SPEAKER 03 :
I totally agree. You know, but I will say this. There are other people who don’t believe in tipping at all. They say, you’re not doing anything special. All you’re doing is about five minutes of work. All you’re doing is bringing me your food. Let me put a steak in that vampire for a moment, okay, because I’m going to put that to rest. Folks, that’s not true. That waiter or waitress at a restaurant, I’m talking a sit-down restaurant, okay, not getting a smoothie at some place. Right. That person is responsible for the atmosphere of your entire visit. They are the host while you are there that entire time. They have to come and make sure your drink is just right. They have to do it not too much, not too little. You don’t want them hovering, but you don’t want them absent. They have to be the ones with a smile even when they don’t want to. They’re the ones dealing with your screaming kid, okay, when other customers in the restaurant are getting very angry. They’re the ones dealing. They’re the front person if you have a problem with the food. OK, are you going to go back into the, you know, into the kitchen and ream out one of the cooks? No, you don’t get to do that. The front person is this person who had nothing to do with cooking the food. They’re the front guy. If you have complaints and then they’ll, of course, if it gets really bad, they’ll have to get a manager. They are the ones that are their smile when they don’t want to is setting the entire mood for your entire time there.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, they’re a host. They’re not just five minutes of bringing you food. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 10 :
And I mean, there’s a lot that goes into that, depending on how many tables they have. They could have 50 orders at once they’re dealing with. I mean, there’s a kind of a little bit of a high pressure situation while they’re on their shift. And then the amount of people they have to deal with complaining about stuff. Nothing seems to be perfect for them ever. I mean, I’m sure they go through that once a day, if not more.
SPEAKER 03 :
You know, and I was talking about this off air. There was an Outback restaurant. It’s north of 70 off, like, Tower. I’m not sure. It’s out east. And my wife and I went there a couple months ago. We had an amazing experience, okay? The food was good. And I like Outback. Yeah. Pretty good food. But there were two waiters working the area. One was gay and one was black. Okay. Okay. And they were tremendous. They were a blast. They were picking on each other, having fun with the customers, going back and forth. They churned the entire experience into a wonderful experience. I tipped the guy 35%. Okay. Now, I’m a big tipper anyway. You know that. I happen to be a very big tipper. Why? Because I’m a capitalist. And by the way, I can tell you, having worked up at the casinos, and I’ve done deliveries, I’ve done tipped industries. The worst tippers are generally liberals, are terrible tippers. Right. And, well, some Christians are really bad tippers, too, which blows my mind. Okay. Capitalists love to tip. When they see capitalists come in and they know you’re a capitalist, they get excited because they’re like, oh, my gosh. And I’m not saying that you’re going to give 35%, but they know that you’re at least going to hook them up because you respect work. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 10 :
What’s funny is I just thought about the last time I was at Outback before going to golf with my buddies. We had a guy there who didn’t seem to know what he was doing, wasn’t able to split the check, kind of rude to us, wasn’t making the experience better. Well, he’s made it worse if it’s rude. That’s funny that at Outback you got both sides of the spectrum right there.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, sure. Well, that’s I mean, these are chain restaurants. Right. You’re going to see everything. It all depends on the manager.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right. But as soon as you kind of start feeling like, oh, this waiter is kind of rude and not in a joking way or one of those restaurants where they’re supposed to be rude to you. And that’s the experience. Yeah, yeah. But as soon as you feel that, you’re almost like, the max I’ll give them is 15%. And if my meal is a little more expensive than I thought, I might not give them that 15%.
SPEAKER 03 :
They might be a little lower.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, and I think that’s understandable. I think it really is. I think that all this pressure to tip that has been going on where they, now they want you to tip a lot if you just go up and pick up, say, a cappuccino.
SPEAKER 10 :
Or even Starbucks, they make you tip. I’m like, I was here for a minute.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. Now, I’m one of these guys, I’ll be honest, you know, I don’t like coffee, but I get chai. I get iced chai. I do love that. I go that. I have always, you know, usually rounded it up, you know, like it was an $8 iced chai. I give them a 10 and say, keep it. I don’t care. Right. Okay. And, you know, it’s a nice little thing. I give them a couple bucks. But now it’s not as fun. I like to do that out of my heart. Okay. I like to do that just to kind of make their day. Now they have a little button and it says hit this or this or this amount or this amount.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, then you tip them, they don’t even care. No. You just drive right on by or walk out, and they just shrug it off like nothing happened. I mean, I love seeing the videos when someone who has money goes into an establishment, they have a $17 meal, and then tip them $1,000.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, haven’t you had, and we only got a few seconds here, but haven’t you had both experiences at a Starbucks? The ones where they don’t care about you at all, and they’re just whipping it out, and then the ones who are really…
SPEAKER 10 :
Engaging.
SPEAKER 03 :
Engaging, and they’re fun, and they’re taking care of you.
SPEAKER 10 :
Asking about my plans for the weekend, how’s work going and stuff, and I’m like, well, at that point, I feel like I just made a friend, and I’ll tip you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly, and you want to hook them up. Right. Okay, bottom line, tipping culture, has it gotten worse or better?
SPEAKER 10 :
It’s gotten worse.
SPEAKER 03 :
I agree. I think it’s gotten worse. It’s made it less fun. I still tip good service because I am a capitalist. I want to reward that, but they’ve made it less fun.
SPEAKER 1 :
100%.
SPEAKER 10 :
I mean, look at Europe. They don’t even tip, so at least we have tipping here.
SPEAKER 03 :
Exactly. But we don’t want to be like Europe ever.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Okay. That is Tanner Coleman. Thank you so much, Tanner, for being here today. You made it a lot of fun. That’s it for our number one and our two. We got Jersey Joe. And until then, keep it right here on Rush to Reason, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 13 :
Bye. Bye.
