In this episode of Rush to Reason, our host John Rush dives deep into the economic repercussions of the recent government shutdown. Joined by America’s Money Answer Man, Jordan Goodman, they explore the immediate and long-term effects on both individual workers and the broader economy, drawing attention to significant issues within federal assistance programs like SNAP. They discuss the SNAP benefits’ impact on both the recipients and the economy, urging a reconsideration of the allocation of government aid.
SPEAKER 05 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 06 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes. With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 04 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job first. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 11 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life. That there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 04 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 17 :
And at that time, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate. Charlie Grimes, of course, our engineer. How’s Andy today? Andy’s doing well, sir. Awesome. Let me bring up Jordan Goodman, America’s Money Answer Man. Jordan, how are you today?
SPEAKER 16 :
Great to be with you both.
SPEAKER 17 :
Always a joy. All right. We’ve got a lot to talk about today. We always start off by asking this because you have much different weather than we have here. What is it like in North Carolina?
SPEAKER 16 :
Actually, very nice. It’s like 43 right now. It’s been in the 70s and 80s, so it’s quite nice.
SPEAKER 17 :
We do not get hit by the snowstorm, but hit the northeast. Well, good for you. We’ll take it. Absolutely. We actually have not a lot to complain about either. We could use a little snow actually here at some point, but actually we’re doing pretty well.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, our big problem is it’s been way too dry. We’ve had virtually no precipitation for the last six to eight weeks. So we need some. Send it our way there, Jordan.
SPEAKER 17 :
All right. When does the shutdown, government shutdown end, Jordan?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, the Senate passed the continuing resolution today, 1640. Tomorrow it goes to the House. The House people have to get back throughout all the travel connections and craziness going on out there. And hopefully they’ll vote on it tomorrow. It’s probably going to pass a straight line vote. The difference between the two is that the Senate, you have to get 60 votes to win. The filibuster in the House is just a majority, so it’ll probably go through the House, and then President Trump will probably sign it by the end of the week. Now, instantly, everything gets turned right on its head. It’s a process to pull things back together again.
SPEAKER 17 :
So it’ll take roughly, I mean, it won’t be this time next week, but early next week before things get rolling again, I’m guessing.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, I mean, for example, the air transportation situation, a complete mess out there right now. Thousands of flights canceled and delayed and just massive tie-ups everywhere. That’s not going to get resolved the next day they open the government. It’s going to take a while to kind of undo.
SPEAKER 03 :
unravel that mess right right before thanksgiving yes i think that’s actually one of the things the democrats were worried about was have a complete meltdown of the transportation system going into thanksgiving right that happens in their minds jordan let me ask you i’m sure there was a lot of lost economic activity during this time obviously we lost a lot of money will it bounce back though will we see spending jump over the next few weeks i don’t think so you don’t think people will do a lot of the spending that they didn’t do during that time
SPEAKER 16 :
I mean, there have been surveys by the National Retail Federation that say that people are going to spend more on this year’s holiday gifts than last year. So maybe that’ll happen. But, I mean, there are some specific things that are hurting spending power. People not getting SNAP benefits. That’s going to come back, but it’s going to take a while. So people are really putting a hole on that.
SPEAKER 03 :
One second, one second, one second. Before you run on from that, I’m sorry, but that’s fascinating. So SNAP benefits, okay, you’re saying it comes back. So the stuff that was delayed, they get that back, and what was coming as well, so it all comes back together.
SPEAKER 16 :
I don’t know if they get back.
SPEAKER 03 :
I don’t either. I don’t know.
SPEAKER 16 :
I don’t think so. I don’t think so. No. I think it’s just a big hole. And now the federal workers get back pay. Right. So that’ll… It’ll be a while, but it’s really hurt these federal workers, a million of them, not to get paid and having to go into debt. Just think of these air traffic controllers having to deal with all the stress of that and not having enough money to feed their families and get enough gas to get to the airport to do their jobs, which are not getting paid. It’s taken a psychological…
SPEAKER 03 :
But their next paycheck will be backpaid. It’ll be caught up.
SPEAKER 17 :
Here’s my answer. Wah, wah, wah. Don’t care. Honestly, don’t care. We spend too much money as government anyways on a lot of the things that we just got done mentioning. Maybe air traffic controller is probably one of the few that we… And by the way, those guys make pretty decent money. I highly doubt any of them have gone without a meal or gas money to go to and from the airport. That’s probably one of the exceptions, Jordan. But the SNAP end of things, as far as I’m concerned, and I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, to have over 10% of Americans on SNAP when it ought to be down around 1% is absolutely ludicrous.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, they need it. I mean, you’re seeing these people lining up for miles. Yeah, go get a job. That’s what it’s called.
SPEAKER 17 :
It’s called W-O-R-K, Jordan.
SPEAKER 16 :
Get a job.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, a lot of them do work. A lot of people, like Walmart workers, are on SNAP. So get a second job if you have to. I mean, Jordan, no offense. You’re talking to a guy that has been through every struggle in life you can imagine, being self-employed since I was 22 years of age. I’ve never once taken a handout for government, never will take a handout for government. It’s called working harder. It’s not that difficult.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, a lot of them do, but there are some that I think are kind of living off the dole.
SPEAKER 17 :
Really quick, as you can tell, that’s a hot spot for me, because guess what? I’m the guy writing the check at the end of the day.
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s correct. That’s correct. So anyway, I’m just saying as far as the impact on the economy, it’s had an impact on the economy. And not only the workers directly, the million workers,
SPEAKER 17 :
um federal workers directly but think of all the federal contractors that you know and that one you know that one there are those sorts of individuals that i’m fully understanding of and again those will all come back they’ll eventually get paid and and i get that that side of it and that by the way i’m not nearly as upset about as i am some of this other ridiculousness where we’ve got 40 million people on some sort of government cheese that’s right
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s right, we do. That’s just food alone, about $42 million on SNAP. Ridiculous.
SPEAKER 03 :
Hey, Jordan, you are a financial advisor, of course, for millions of people, actually. If you have somebody who is on SNAP or on these programs, and they come to you and they just say, honestly, hey, Jordan, if I get off these things and I do get a job, I’m actually going to be making less while giving up 40 hours a week. How do you advise them?
SPEAKER 16 :
Work anyway.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And what’s your reasoning? Well, I agree with you, but I just want to hear what you tell me.
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s a self-image kind of thing. Things go better for you when you have a purpose in life and a mission. And sitting around just collecting benefits is not good for your mental or financial health. Okay. And hopefully it’ll lead to other things. When you get a job, you’re exposed to other possibilities and you can advance. If you have no job, you’re kind of stuck there not doing anything.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, and one last question. I’m sorry for all the questions, but I’ve never been, I’ve never taken a government check. Okay, well, my Air Force check, because I was in the Air Force. Okay, that doesn’t count.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, I think you’ve taken government checks.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, exactly. I took it right out of your pocket, Jordan, just so you knew. I got rich off of you. But anyway, but I’ve never taken, you know, just subsidies or checks. How does that work with people who, let’s say, they do work at Walmart, they do work somewhere, but their income is much lower. Do they get the same SNAP or other benefits as somebody who’s totally unemployed? How does that work? How do they separate between able-bodied, not able-bodied? How does it all work?
SPEAKER 16 :
No, they don’t really do it by able-bodied or not. That’s a problem. One of the things Republicans are trying to do is to put a work requirement. In fact, I think in the big beautiful bill they did put in a work requirement. They did. Which was not there before. So Democrats are screaming, that’s cruel. But, you know, these people have been getting money without a work requirement, is my understanding so far. But that’s going to change when the new bill is fully implemented.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, oddly enough, that’s a Bill Clinton thing. Clinton and Gingrich.
SPEAKER 16 :
That was workfare. That wasn’t for food stamps.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, but I mean the concept is the same. You know what I mean. You’ve got to do something to get something, is what I mean.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. That’s right. And that was in the bill. A lot of people are saying… hell, I’m not going to work. And they won’t get benefits, so you’ll be happy.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, we will see how all this goes. I think if there’s anything that’s come out of this, and it’ll be interesting to see what happens on down the road when it comes to the SNAP and the welfare and the things and so on, because I think that was a wake-up call for a lot of positive tax-paying Americans to realize how many actual people are getting some sort of assistance, and I think that was a huge wake-up call for Americans.
SPEAKER 03 :
John, if I may, and I want to put this to you and Jordan, okay? Don’t you think it would be pretty effective messaging, because I think the Republicans are not messaging very well on this, if they simply said, no more something for nothing. Your fellow taxpayers can’t afford something for nothing. You’ve got to do something.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, that was in the bill. I know, I know, but I’m talking about PAC.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m just talking about the sales pitch for it. OK, because they put it in the bill. And yeah, the people who are from the red states and the people in the Republican base, they all we all beat our chests. And so do I. And so does John saying, yeah, you need to work for what you’re getting. You know what? There are a lot of people who are really dumb in America and they don’t understand the entire concept. And they believe that you hurt people and you hate people because you’re starving them. And these poor people don’t have time to do that work. All I’m saying is the sales pitch. I mean, shouldn’t we say no more something for nothing? Your fellow taxpayers can’t afford something for nothing.
SPEAKER 17 :
And on top of that, as Jordan, you know very well, there’s a lot of these individuals, not all of the 42 million, but there is a sizable amount of them that know how to game the system. and end up with things that, frankly, the three of us don’t even get at the end of the day, Jordan. And I think for folks like me, that’s what’s so irritating. There are literally people out there that know they can do something else, but at the end of the day, why would they when they’re getting all the free stuff?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. Well, these are not big benefits. I mean, like $180 a month or something for SNAP. I mean, it’s not a huge amount.
SPEAKER 17 :
This number was a few years old, but in Hawaii, for example, if you take out every single government handout, federal, state, and so on, it equates to about $65,000 a year, and I’m sure it’s higher than that now because that number is several years old. At the end of the day, my point is if you really know how to game the system… You can do all of that. And, oh, by the way, go work for somebody else’s cash under the table and even add to that if you’d like. And, by the way, all tax-free because you and I are paying for it.
SPEAKER 03 :
And, Jordan, really quick here. Did you say $180 a month? Is that per person? Yes, per person. Okay, so let’s say you’ve got a family of four. Do they all get $180?
SPEAKER 16 :
I think it’s something like that. I’m not a true expert on SNAP benefits.
SPEAKER 03 :
Let’s just say hypothetically. Let’s say you’ve got two parents, two kids, okay? And so you’ve got four times what, 80? I don’t know. What is that, 720 offhand? I can’t remember.
SPEAKER 15 :
Roughly. Per month, yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, per month. Okay, let’s go to the ordinary American family that’s busting their ass trying to get by and ask them, how would you like to have $720 a month taken out of your food bills? And I think a lot of them would say, you’re kidding, right? No, that’s what’s actually being given to people who aren’t working like you are.
SPEAKER 17 :
Right.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. So you say it’s not much, and what I’m saying is, honestly, I think it’s quite a bit.
SPEAKER 17 :
For some, it’s a lot. And I want to make sure I’m clear on this so that I know I can sometimes step on toes and so on. There are legitimate people, Jordan, that actually do need some help, and I’m all for helping people that legitimately need it. I have no issues there whatsoever. My point is— To have over 10% of Americans on some sort of assistance is ridiculous.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. Well, you know, what solves that is a booming economy. And that we don’t have right now.
SPEAKER 17 :
Two things, Jordan. It’s a booming economy and a restructure of the giveaway programs that we have, much like Clinton did back in the day. You’ve got to put some stipulations into, okay, you can be on this assistance, but we’re going to put some parameters around it. It’s not going to free for all. Right. I played a video last week, the audio from a video last week, where a gal in New Mexico was whining because she’s been on SNAP for 30 years, and she was upset that she wasn’t going to have anything last week. 30 years, Jordan. 30 years. Three decades.
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s right. That’s right. Well, we have a lot of social safety net problems, and another one is Medicaid. I mean, they’re trying to save a trillion dollars. I mean, many, many people get Medicaid, and it keeps rural hospitals going, and You know, it’s a huge expense. I mean, relative to that, SNAP is about $9 billion a month, something like that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Jordan, you say a booming economy is going to be the key. And by the way, I agree, it really helps. But answer this. How much help is a booming economy when people have been conditioned not to take advantage of it, when they can instead just take the benefits?
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s why I think work requirements are a good thing. But I’m just saying if you need. Now, the irony of the current situation is we have still about 8 million unfilled jobs. People do not have the skill to do those jobs. I mean, John always talks about it’s hard to find mechanics or something. That’s right. We do have a lot of jobs out there. We can train you. Nobody has the skills to do them.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, there needs to be more willingness.
SPEAKER 16 :
There’s a lot of jobs available in the strawberry field to pick strawberries because all the illegals have been scared off by ICE. So maybe these people could go pick strawberries and blueberries because we need them.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, here’s a great example, and I don’t know if this is true. I haven’t checked it out. A texter just sent this in where there was a CNN. Ashley Allison says Snap is having a massive impact after she went to her eyebrow technician who told her they had to fire people because clients didn’t have the money to do their brows. In other words, Snap recipients were still getting their brows done. I see.
SPEAKER 16 :
You don’t want ugly SNAP recipients. I guess not.
SPEAKER 17 :
I guess at the end of the day, we want good-looking SNAP recipients, Jordan, when it’s all said and done.
SPEAKER 03 :
Jordan, how much do you spend on your eyebrows and manicures?
SPEAKER 17 :
Not enough, clearly. Oh, okay. You need more. All right, we’re going to come back. Don’t go anywhere. Jordan, how do folks get a hold of you?
SPEAKER 16 :
They can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com.
SPEAKER 17 :
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That’s Geno’s with a J. Putting reason into your afternoon drive, this is John Rush.
SPEAKER 17 :
All right, before we continue on to the next topic, a text message came in. Fully disabled paraplegic friend who is a recent widow and as well receives $2,200 a month for disability, $26 a month for food stamps. People who are depending on a lot of this assistance are taking away from, or in other words, people that really don’t need it are taking away from those that really do depend on it, Jordan. So again, even people that are on it that really need it, they are upset about what’s going on as well because they feel like they’re getting shortchanged by those that are gaming the system.
SPEAKER 16 :
case of somebody who absolutely needs it. He cannot, he does not have an alternative. He absolutely needs that. That’s right. In that case, $26. So, you know, there are definitely a lot of people who really, really need it.
SPEAKER 17 :
That’s right. No, absolutely. And appreciate that text message as well. All right, moving along. Andy talked about this earlier, you know, some of the economic impact from the shutdown, you know, how much of that actually will come back. I think time will tell when it’s all said and done. I hadn’t given this a lot of thought to really determine how much of that will come back, won’t come back. I mean, I would say all but some of what we’ve just got done talking about with some of the assistance programs, it’s all going to come back.
SPEAKER 16 :
Eventually, but some things are lost forever. You don’t make up for the productivity of the production that would have happened. I mean, the estimates are that it costs— Whoa, whoa, whoa, time out, time out, time out, time out.
SPEAKER 17 :
Other than the government contractors that are doing a lot of the work, no offense, we’re not losing anything in productivity from government workers. They don’t contribute to the economy, Jordan.
SPEAKER 16 :
Unless I’m missing something. They not only do something, but they get paid and they spend money in the economy.
SPEAKER 17 :
They do, but I mean, as far as direct production to the economy, government workers do zero to produce in the economy, unless I’m missing something.
SPEAKER 03 :
And they’re about to get that money back, so they’re going to spend it.
SPEAKER 16 :
Let’s give you some examples, okay? Let’s start with our favorite air traffic controllers. Are they doing something that’s helping the economy?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, they do, yes. That’s one of the slim examples of a government worker actually helping to produce something when it’s all said and done. I will tell you, Jordan, that they are one of the small examples of what government workers actually do to produce. No offense, all of the other regulatory agencies and so on do absolutely zero to have any kind of a net production when it’s all said and done.
SPEAKER 16 :
So let’s do some more examples. How about food safety inspectors to make sure the food is not poisonous?
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, you can definitely catch up on those. I knew guys who did that.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. Okay. How about people who approve new drugs that drug companies are applying?
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, that’ll get caught up. That’s a no-brainer.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. No, I’m just saying, these are things that the government’s doing that are productive, so to speak, right?
SPEAKER 03 :
What about invading nations with our military? Now we’re going to have to catch up and invade more of them. Oh, jeez.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yes, well, Venezuela’s ready.
SPEAKER 17 :
I’m just saying, now we’ve got to catch up. Now we’ve got to rush it. Hey, we’ve got a call coming in really quick. Let’s take Paul a little fast before we move to the next topic. Paul, go ahead.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, how are you guys doing?
SPEAKER 17 :
Good, Paul.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, you guys were talking about that, you know, the SNAP thing. Okay, here’s my situation. I’ve never taken a government handout before a day in my life. I recently just got canned for my job at the TA truck stop because I had back surgery done April of last year.
SPEAKER 17 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, back is not as good as it used to be, so they did fire me for that, but they made something up, so they let me go. Now, at my age, I’m 64 years old, I’m not going to be able to find a job making 20 bucks an hour to support my household. I’m going to lose my house out of 13 years. And I’m thinking about going on SNAP, but I don’t even know if I’m eligible to get that.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, and that is something way above my pay grade when it comes to all those requirements, Paul. And again, my heart goes out to you. I know your story. You’ve shared it before, and it shouldn’t be that. And by the way, Paul, you’re the ones that I was referring to earlier, and there’s others like you that actually are genuinely needed when it comes to help and so on, and I’m all for that. And frankly, the way it works right now, unfortunately, and Jordan, you can chime in. Paul, I’m going to let you go. But unfortunately, Jordan, Paul’s one of those guys that actually does need help. And the reality is we’ve got others that know how to game the system that get more help than a guy like Paul that really does need it.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. Well, of the 42 million who are receiving SNAP, I would think like 90% deserve it, something like that. Maybe 10% are gaming the system. I don’t. You probably have a much lower number. I’m just… I think these people don’t want to be on SNAP, but they have to be. They’re just not making enough. And the price of groceries is going up a lot, and they just can’t make it. And you’re seeing that. When they don’t get SNAP, they line up at food pantries around the block. They don’t have the money to buy enough food to survive.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, and by the way, not arguing that, although you being the financial planner and advisor that you are, and again, being somebody myself that’s been through a lot of things in their life, not even knowing where the next meal was going to come from and so on. I mean, I’ve got stories I can share with folks that probably would surprise some. But at the end of the day, Jordan, I also realize that. In some ways, those are learning lessons where you grow from that. You learn how to manage money and things along those lines better. In other words, you take those challenges and move forward. My point and my question, most of all, with a lot of these individuals, are we doing that or is it just expected that you’re going to be on SNAP for 30 years?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, I mean, I think people are on SNAP and people want to be off of it and they don’t want to be on for 30 years. Nobody wants to be on SNAP for 30 years. but they find themselves in a situation
SPEAKER 17 :
not working maybe they’re disabled or elderly or whatever it may be they don’t seem to have a choice they don’t nobody wants to be and by that those are the ones that i have no issues with whatever but i’ve known individuals i’ve got examples of people that i have met face to face that for example jordan will live in section 8 housing be on snap and some other benefits might have a menial job and by the way might even be offered a promotion at said job but won’t take promotion because if they get more money they lose all of the government assistance that we’re now handing out Those are the people that frustrate me.
SPEAKER 16 :
I would agree. That would be abusive. I agree.
SPEAKER 17 :
Go ahead.
SPEAKER 16 :
I thought you were done. People do not want government benefits. I’ll give you another example. Farmers. Farmers do not want to be taking the bailouts. They want to sell their grains to China. And they’ve been forced to take bailouts from the government because… our soybean sales went from $12 billion to zero. That’s another example. People don’t want government handouts, but they only take it if they absolutely have to.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, but of course the recent deal, we just sold $12.5 billion to China, and it’s going to be 25 a year for the next three years.
SPEAKER 17 :
I can probably talk the next hour on the whole farming thing, Jordan. The biggest problem we have there is government’s far too involved in it. They’re far too involved in the commodity markets, setting prices, incentivizing farmers to grow or not grow something. I mean, I know of direct farmers that will relate to everything I just said, and the reality is government needs to get out of farming, period.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, they’ve been getting out to some extent, but the farmers want a farm bill that gives them subsidies. Of course they do.
SPEAKER 17 :
Because they’re crack whores just like everybody else. And I’m being honest, and they’ll tell you the same thing. They get used to it just like everybody else does. You say they don’t want to be on it, but yet they are.
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s right. And when we take it away… Well, I mean, their sales were taken away by the trade deals and by tariffs. And then all of a sudden they would have to depend on the government to survive. And it’s not working. There’s tons of farm bankruptcies and suicides and people losing their farms all over the place right now in this country. It’s a shame.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, Jordan, I have to disagree with you on one thing because I think you’re projecting. You are this rare thing we call a good person. Okay. Okay. Yes. It’s not so rare. Yeah, look out your window. Drive in traffic sometime. Just, you know, get on a committee. You’ll see it. Okay. But even a church committee. But, Jordan, let me tell you something. You say that these people don’t want to be on these things. I believe an awful lot of them do. And I believe not just because they’re evil, lazy people, but also they’re fearful people. Once you get used to having a safety net under you, you don’t want to work without a net. You want to still have the net somehow, some way. My big concern is this. When you’re talking the incredible amounts that are going out in SNAP and other benefits… which jumped dramatically during COVID, we got to get back down because I think what we’ve done is we’ve got a lot of people who are used to those things. I don’t believe it’s 90% who absolutely have to have them. Look, let me ask you this. You’re talking about, you give the examples, and they’re good examples, of people who really are hurting, the people who have a disability, who are very elderly and so forth. What about the young guy and girl who simply have too many kids, and now they need to be at home because it costs too much for child care, and so instead we just let the lady or the guy stay home, and they get to get all these food stamps and everything. So basically the taxpayer is…
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, but the taxpayers paid to have all these kids, and we shouldn’t all be paying for their choices.
SPEAKER 03 :
That’s what I’m saying. But we are, Jordan. We are. And I believe that that is a much higher percentage than you think.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, there’s a lot of money being flushed out. What’s changed is the big, beautiful bill is putting in work requirements. So we’re going to see in real life what happens when you put a work requirement, how many people get dropped off the roads who aren’t either willing or able to work. and won’t get their benefits. So this is not theoretical. It’s actually going to be happening in the next year or so.
SPEAKER 03 :
What do you think about the fact that it’s not just work requirements? They’re saying work or training and education requirements. In other words, get the training needed.
SPEAKER 17 :
For some of the jobs you mentioned earlier.
SPEAKER 03 :
To get some of the jobs that we need.
SPEAKER 16 :
That would be great. We need them.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that’s in the big bill.
SPEAKER 16 :
I think these people would like that. They’re going to want to be working and not be on government benefits. So that would be a good example of these people who take training and then get jobs. That would be a wonderful outcome.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, and because at the end of the day, you being the financial wizard that you are would understand this, and the reality is if you can become a net tax receiver and then become a net taxpayer, You have helped the economy out, Jordan, immensely. You flip-flopped yourself inside of the economy to where you’re now really supporting. I get it. But it’s a negative. I mean, you’re really not supporting the economy with your SNAP benefits because all you’re doing is taking my tax dollars and running it through a different system at the end of the day. You’re not helping the economy one iota. Frankly, you’re adding debt is what you’re doing, Jordan.
SPEAKER 16 :
But you have asked the stores who are selling to snap. But it doesn’t matter.
SPEAKER 17 :
It’s still borrowed money because we don’t have enough to go around already as a country. It’s us borrowing money so they can then go help that store stay in business at the end of the day. It’s a net negative at the end of the day, Jordan. There’s no positive there.
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, the stores who are selling tons of stuff would think it’s a positive. I saw a story today.
SPEAKER 17 :
But, Jordan, you’re the financial wizard. It’s borrowed money. It’s the example I give where you’ve got the biggest, most beautiful house on the block, and everybody around you is admiring you, and they think it’s great. You’ve got all the new cars. You’ve got everything under the sun. Problem is you’re leveraged to the hill. You don’t really own anything. You owe so much money that it’s ridiculous, yet the guy across the street, all of a sudden, he can’t make his mortgage payment, so the guy with the big house gives him the money to make his mortgage payment, so he just goes into debt even deeper. At the end of the day, it’s a net negative. You’ve not accomplished anything. You made it worse.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. Well, we’re up to $38 trillion in debt now, and we’re adding roughly a trillion in debt every 90 days.
SPEAKER 03 :
Proving my point. You did that with your programs, Jordan. Yeah. Just so you know.
SPEAKER 16 :
If I were in charge. Paying interest on the national debt is one of my programs.
SPEAKER 17 :
It’s huge. All right, we’ll be right back. Veteran Windows and Doors coming up next. Save money, go direct to the source when it comes to Windows and Doors. Talk to Dave today. Find him at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 18 :
The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 17 :
All right, Jordan Goodman with us. Jordan, before we get going again, give folks the way to get a hold of you.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, they can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com.
SPEAKER 17 :
All right, a question just came in. Please ask Jordan if the people that, when they find out the person has died but is still collecting and using food stamps, SNAP, etc., are they going to move forward with legislation to change that so people have to reimburse us as taxpayers back for the money they basically stole?
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s called fraud, yes. And they should be stopped from doing so. And I think I saw a recent report from a Well, a lot of these different places, the Social Security and so on, lots of dead people are being paid, and that is fraudulent. So, yes, they should pay the money back.
SPEAKER 17 :
Okay. All right. By the way, thank you, and I agree with that. And for those of you that are texting in, thank you. I fully agree with that. All right. Talk to us about health insurance. If they don’t get some things done there, those subsidies, quote unquote, are going to end. Trump floated out there, which, by the way, I agree with him fully on his idea. If you’re going to subsidize anybody, subsidize the actual taxpayers that are actually buying policies and stop subsidizing the insurance companies themselves. Because if you look at their profit margins and where they have gone over the past five years or so, it’s absolutely astronomical the amount of profits they have today. Why are we giving it directly to the insurance companies when they’re screwing us in the process?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, well… Because they are. The subsidy is for the additional 15% that was added because of COVID, like in 2021, something like that. There’s still an 80% subsidy left over, but that additional subsidy is what’s being taken away, and that’s what’s causing premiums to go up so dramatically. It’s something like 16 million Americans that are going to have their… I mean, right now, in November, they’re getting their notices… of what their premiums are going to be starting January 1st.
SPEAKER 03 :
Did premiums go down when that 15% was first put out?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, yeah. No.
SPEAKER 17 :
None of my premiums, Jordan, since Obamacare came into play have ever gone down.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I’m just wondering, I mean, did they go down? If they did not, that means that they’ve been soaking in that 15% the whole time. Why should premiums automatically jump up dramatically?
SPEAKER 17 :
because the subsidy is going away. And by the way, in Colorado, because I’ve got a cousin that actually works inside of that world, Jordan, here’s a little news for you. They were going up regardless of whether the subsidies were going away. In fact, it was already on the books, planned, handled, signed, sealed, and delivered. There’s a lot of just media nonsense going on around this, so they were going up anyways no matter what.
SPEAKER 16 :
It might be going up 10% or 15%, but now people’s premiums are going up 100% and 200%. And the result is they’re going to drop insurance. They just literally cannot afford it. So many, many people will lose their health insurance, their ACA, Obamacare, because they just can’t afford these premiums. And that’s what’s going to happen.
SPEAKER 17 :
So again, what about Trump’s, you know, Trump floated the idea of giving them the subsidy money, you know, redirecting it instead of giving it to the insurance companies, actually giving it to the people that are buying insurance. Why can’t we do that?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, we could. It would be complicated to have that happen. I mean, for example, I’m on Medicare now. You know, I’m over 65. I have a zero premium policy. And the insurance company that I use in my case, Humana, they get subsidies from the government. So it doesn’t go directly to me, but the result is, for me, I don’t have to pay any premiums. So that, to me, is an efficient way of handling it.
SPEAKER 17 :
The question would be, how much are they getting and how much of that is your percentage? In other words, are you really getting everything that they’re giving on a per-patient, quote-unquote, basis, a per-insured basis?
SPEAKER 16 :
It depends on how much the person uses the health insurance. If you’re healthy, they’re making a nice profit. If you’re not healthy and you have all kinds of expenses, they’re losing money on you. That’s the nature of insurance is large pools. There’s some people using a lot, some people using a little, and it covers in between.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, but Jordan, the bottom line is we put in the 15% because of COVID. COVID is gone. I mean, this is ridiculous. Having to keep it in because people will lose coverage now doesn’t seem to make any sense to me that COVID has been gone for two years.
SPEAKER 17 :
Best thing to do, and it’s not going to happen, but really what needs to happen is scrap all of the crappy ACH Obamacare nonsense from the get-go and start over. That’s what we really ought to do, Jordan. It’s not going to happen. That’s a pipe dream on my end.
SPEAKER 16 :
So what would be your proposal instead of doing Obamacare to get all these people who would otherwise not have health insurance to get them health insurance?
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, first of all, if you got rid of – which you can look at the charts and see exactly what health care has done as far as inflation is concerned since Obamacare went into play. Reality is it has shot up the cost of health care absolutely astronomically to the point where a lot of people can’t afford it, to your point.
SPEAKER 03 :
Deductibles are unbelievably high.
SPEAKER 17 :
We’ve got to get back to the basis. We need to get rid of the PBRs, get rid of those guys in the middle. They’re a waste of money today. You don’t need them any longer. They’re a huge amount of overhead with everything we’re talking about. Jordan, it would take me the next three hours to explain everything we need to do to correct this problem. It’s correctable. There’s a lot of smart minds out there that have the solutions to this. We’re not listening, though.
SPEAKER 16 :
No. Well, there may be some solutions. I think like private doctors… The take concierge and have unlimited use that kind of thing is right something that might be a good solution I would like the private sector to come up with solutions and have more government I agree. It is costing a huge amount. You’re right. I mean we’re talking about cutting Medicaid about a trillion dollars Okay, that’s a lot of money. It’s gonna cause a lot of people to lose health insurance. We’re talking about these subsidies going away a lot of people gonna lose health insurance and We have to have a solution there. But I don’t think the solution is what the rest of the world have, which is a single-payer solution.
SPEAKER 17 :
It just makes it worse when you do that. You need competition. Competition drives excellence. That’s what Obamacare took away was that competition. Yeah.
SPEAKER 16 :
So this is a big budget item. The bigger budget item that we should discuss, though, is tariffs. Because last week there were arguments before the Supreme Court about whether Trump tariffs are legal or not. And it seemed like most of the justices think they’re not legal. And I happen to agree with them, because the law that he’s, depending on the 1977 emergency law, talks about sanctions, not tariffs. So it doesn’t mention tariffs anywhere. If they rule against him, that these tariffs that he’s been putting on all year are not legal, you’re going to have mass chaos in the economy. First of all, everybody who has been paying tariffs is going to want a refund. So how do you refund roughly $2 trillion that’s been spent through the economy? And then it blows a huge hole in the budget deficit because… you know, there’s a huge amount of revenue that they’re not going to be getting. And the main tool of foreign policy he’s had that they’re taking away from him.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yeah, I’m not disagreeing with you on the Supreme Court. I think the Supreme Court is wrong, because to me it’s a national security issue, and that’s what he’s exactly using it for, which I think is very appropriate to be used for, and I think the Supreme Court is not looking at it correctly. Hopefully, you know, one side can argue my point just that I said a moment ago, because frankly that’s how I see it, and it’s the only way I see it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, first of all, it’s a foreign policy issue very much so. It’s tied into all your foreign policy. Look at everything he’s done with it. And secondly, here’s a big problem, Jordan. You can’t have a committee negotiating for you. And you can’t have a 535-member divided committee negotiating tariffs with the rest of the world. You have to have… your leadership and their team negotiating tariffs with the rest of the world. And by doing that, he’s got unbelievable success coming down the line. Now, if they do this, if the Supreme court does this and look, there are always, there are four, in my opinion, hard left Supreme court justices. So he has to sweep the other five to win every time. And that’s hard to do. Okay. So if they do this, they are going to destroy the, everything that he has built going forward. If they don’t do it, if they rule correctly, in my view, and allow him to keep doing what he’s doing, we are going to have an economic boom next year that is going to rival any that we’ve seen in a long time. But if they do this, they’re going to destroy America.
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah. So I agree. We’re on the knife’s edge. And Trump has been saying this is one of the most important Supreme Court cases in over 100 years, and I agree with him. I mean, again, I’m not a lawyer, but on a purely legal basis, it does not seem that this law that he’s depending on gives him the right to tariff by whim, and that’s the way he does it. This is not approved by Congress in any way. He doesn’t like something like Bolsonaro in Brazil. You get hit with a 50% tariff. He doesn’t like the ad that Ontario ran during the World Series. You get a 10% tariff, you know. He likes you, he lowers the tariffs. He doesn’t like you, he raises the tariffs.
SPEAKER 03 :
But that was a foreign power that was intruding on our process directly. And by the way, they did it with lies. They manipulated the tape.
SPEAKER 17 :
You mean Canada? Yes, they did.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, Canada. That’s what I’m talking about, Ontario. Really? They just played the Reagan tape.
SPEAKER 17 :
They did the typical media spin where they took little clips out that kind of said one thing but really didn’t say it fully. If you had played the entire clip, it wouldn’t have said exactly what it said in that particular commercial, Jordan. They basically manipulated things to their advantage.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And the very year that Reagan made that speech, he put a big tariff on Japan. But what they did is they pick and chose and put out. And by the way, they shouldn’t be putting out ads on our airwaves trying to intrude on our legislative process. Well, they did.
SPEAKER 16 :
And they got a 10% penalty as a result of that.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yes, they did.
SPEAKER 16 :
So I agree with you. This is a major decision coming down. We’re not sure exactly when. I’d say in the next two months or something like that, maybe in January. But which direction it goes, not only relating to tariffs, but relating to presidential power in general. I mean, the president has done a lot of things to kind of push the envelope on presidential power, and this is probably the biggest one, just doing these tariffs out of his whim. I like this, I don’t like this.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think it’s much more strategic than a whim. I’m not saying that he is never an emotional guy. He is, but I would say easily over 90% of what he does is all highly strategic to get better deals for Americans, and I think he’s really succeeded. I mean, the trade deals that we’re getting are dramatically better than anything we’ve seen before. It’s incredible. Okay, it’s opening up all new markets. And here’s my big question for you, Jordan. Do you believe a heavily divided 535-member committee can negotiate with countries around the world?
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s not the way it works. Yeah, but you know what I’m saying. Yeah, I know, I know, but you see what they’re going to have to do.
SPEAKER 03 :
With Congress having to approve it, that means that they’re going to be arguing, debating, and all this. They’re not going to negotiate light-footed and quick. Okay, you did this, I do this. When you’re in negotiations, Jordan, you’ve got to be able to move on the fly. Okay.
SPEAKER 16 :
I’ll give you an example. The USMCA, the Canada-US-Mexico agreement. That took about two years of negotiation by the trade people on all sides, and then Congress ratified it. That’s the way it works.
SPEAKER 03 :
Right. And instead, what Trump has accomplished in just a few months is unleashing America’s ability to sell all over the world just like that. Why would we want to go to… I agree a lot.
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s been a good deal.
SPEAKER 03 :
You’re talking a two-year process with just two countries. I mean, come on.
SPEAKER 16 :
The Constitution says that Congress should regulate commerce and taxes. And this is commerce and this is taxes. So I’m just saying on a legal basis, I don’t think Trump has the right to do what he’s been doing. Now, I think it has been effective, and we’ve gotten a lot of deals with the United Kingdom and Korea, possibly China, Japan, Australia. It’s been effective, but if it hasn’t been on a legal basis, that’s what the Supreme Court’s going to decide on.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, they’re going to destroy us. I mean, they’re going to literally destroy our country. And I’m sorry. Look, you just gave a perfect example of why the other system doesn’t work. It took two years for two countries? Sorry.
SPEAKER 16 :
Right. That’s the way the Constitution says. Maybe we should pass constitutional amendments giving the president… the right to do a task, whatever he likes, without congressional approval. That’s what’s been happening.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I’m just saying, you’ve got to keep in mind, we’ve got to go to break with this. No, we don’t. Keep going. Okay. Jordan, the other countries aren’t run that way. So if you’ve got all the other countries who can raise and lower tariffs, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and move quickly like that, and you can’t, that puts you at an unbelievable international disadvantage. And that’s why we had the situation that we had going into this year, where we had massive tariffs on us all over the world.
SPEAKER 16 :
So, again, I’m saying I think a lot of the tariff deals have been very good, but I do not think he has the legal right to do it. So, you know, either Congress agrees to his things or maybe you change the laws to give him that power. But I don’t think on a legal basis right now he has the power to do what he’s been doing all year.
SPEAKER 17 :
We will find out. Talk to us before we end this first hour, I should say, before we end this hour with you. New York, they’re in for a rude awakening. How’s that going to turn out for them?
SPEAKER 16 :
Commie Town. Commie Town. I sent you guys a video. I don’t know if you saw that video. Yeah, it was funny.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER 16 :
For people who didn’t see it, it was AOC feeding grapes to Mamdami, and Bernie was in there, and he had… It was done through artificial intelligence. It was really very well done. They had, like, these Arabs leading cops on their hands and knees, letting the prisons open, and Quite an amazing video. So he won. I thought he would win, and he won quite by a large amount. And so they’re going to get what they’re voting for. And, you know, what could be wrong with free food, free child care, free health care, free buses? Everything’s going to be free. Socialist workers’ paradise.
SPEAKER 17 :
Well, and some of that, by the way, too, this is my – we’ve had some callers even call in that are very familiar with where you are as well. I don’t think he has the full control over the transit system to even offer what he was offering. Is that correct? Yeah.
SPEAKER 16 :
That is correct. The MTA, which is ultimately controlled by the governor of New York, does control it. It costs about $800 million a year for buses. I mean, that’s the fare that they collect. So if they went to free buses, they’d have to come up with $800 million from somewhere. But they’ll just tap the billionaires and just get it from them. Sure, they will. Except all the billionaires are going to leave.
SPEAKER 17 :
That’s right. They’re not going to be there.
SPEAKER 03 :
Are they leaving in a flood right now, Jordan? And have they been in advance of this?
SPEAKER 16 :
That was the warm-up, yes. Where I am here in North Carolina, a lot of people moving in here from New York, like me, Texas, Florida, all the low-tax states are going to see a flood of New Yorkers. That’s correct. So when you lose your tax base, and in this case the federal government’s not going to bail them out, when Trump has said so explicitly, This is going to be unlike the late 70s when New York needed a bailout and Gerald Ford reluctantly did bail them out. Trump is not going through this time. Our biggest city could go down in flames.
SPEAKER 03 :
When you think of the fact, just for you personally, you getting out before this happened, does a smile creep across your face?
SPEAKER 16 :
Well, I like New York. I don’t want New York to fail. I don’t either. But they brought it on themselves.
SPEAKER 03 :
I’m just talking for you. You got away before you’d have to pay for all this.
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s correct. And a lot of other people are thinking exactly the same thing. I mean, if he raises taxes dramatically, he’s got to pay for all these things somehow. People are going to leave. People have mobility. And a lot of small businesses as well, if they raise their taxes in all kinds of ways. So that’s the downside. The free stuff is the fun part. But paying for it is the downside. And New York depends on a lot of federal aid right now, billions and billions. And if they don’t get the money from Uncle Sam, they’re not going to have the money to do all these wonderful things.
SPEAKER 17 :
Yep, you’re right. Jordan, one last time, how do folks get a hold of you?
SPEAKER 16 :
They can always email me, jordan at moneyanswers.com.
SPEAKER 17 :
One more episode with you before the year ends. Man, it goes by fast. It does. It’s been an exciting year. Yes, it has. All right, we’ll talk to you in December. Very good. Take care, Jordan. Appreciate it. Have a great night. Golden Eagle Financial. If you want direct answers, by the way, when it comes to what you’re investing in, your portfolio, what you need to do, changes you need to make, talk to Al Smith today. Find him at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 17 :
Now back to Rush to Reason on KLZ 560. All right, closing out this hour. And, yes, I get a lot of text messages from some of you that get frustrated with Jordan and don’t think that he’s got the spine that I or Andy have. And Jordan’s got a different approach on things. And it’s a good conversation. And for those of you that maybe don’t like that, I’ve been having Jordan on now for a decade or so. And, frankly, Jordan has come a long way to our side. Even talking about the way he does with New York now, he would not have done that 10 years ago.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, how about him saying he loves the work requirements for SNAP? Correct.
SPEAKER 17 :
He wouldn’t have said that back then. So trust me, for all of you that are listening, we do a pretty good job of moving Jordan over to our side on a routine basis, and I enjoy Jordan. He’s always respectful, and we have a good conversation.
SPEAKER 03 :
In another decade, he’ll be a heartless capitalist.
SPEAKER 17 :
There you go. We’ll be back. Hour number two is next. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
No Kings, No Clue: Protest Logic Falls Apart