In this episode of Washington Watch, host Jody Heiss delves into the latest updates on peace discussions between Ukraine and Russia, exploring the divergent paths of proposed plans and their implications. Missouri Congressman Eric Burleson joins the conversation with insights into the ongoing healthcare subsidy debate and introduces a proactive plan to reshape health coverage. The episode also touches upon international reactions to U.S. policy decisions and their potential impacts.
SPEAKER 11 :
from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
SPEAKER 14 :
I’ve also ended eight wars in nine months, and we’re working on that final war. It’s not easy, but I don’t know. I think we’re going to get there. 25,000 soldiers, Ukraine, Russia. In the last month, 25,000 soldiers have died. So I think we’re getting very close to a deal. We’ll find out. I thought that one would have been gone quicker. We did eight. I thought that would have been an easier one, but I think we’re making progress.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that was President Trump earlier today at the White House saying that progress is being made in the efforts to end the war in Ukraine. Welcome to this November 25th edition of Washington Watch. I’m your host today filling in for Tony Perkins. Thank you so much for joining us. All right, coming up, the White House has delayed extending Obamacare subsidies after Republican opposition, and with benefits set to expire at the end of December, many American families could face significantly higher health care costs. Missouri Congressman Eric Burleson will be joining me in just a few moments with a discussion about a possible solution. Plus, Clint Lyons, executive director of iReach Global, will react to the daring escape of 50 girls from a Catholic school in Nigeria. Well, President Trump used the annual Turkey pardoning ceremony to announce the U.S. is very close to a Ukraine-Russia peace deal. Ukraine supports the framework but says issues remain unresolved. Trump spoke after the U.S. Army Secretary Dan Driscoll met for hours with Russian officials in Abu Dhabi. And joining me now is Washington Stand reporter Casey Harper. Casey, a lot of moving parts going on here. How is Ukraine at this point reacting to the possible peace plans from the Trump administration?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, Jody, no shortage of news on a holiday week. But President Zelensky said earlier today the Ukraine’s ready to move forward with this U.S.-backed peace framework, which is a good sign. He says some sensitive issues still need to be discussed directly with President Trump and, of course, European allies. But Zelensky urged Europe to keep supporting Ukraine and to help create a reassurance force. Now, another unresolved issue in all this, Jody, is the return of 20,000 Ukrainian children that Russia’s abducted. U.S. and Ukrainian officials are working to close gaps in the plan. And Kiev is concerned that the deal could push Ukraine toward accepting Russian demands, including giving up territory. Zelensky may travel to the U.S. soon for more talks. Now, President Trump said in a True Social post today that he had instructed his special envoy, Steve Witkoff, to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow in the hope of finalizing a peace plan to end this war in Ukraine. And, of course, the push for a deal comes as Russia continues heavy strikes on Kyiv, including on residential areas, killing civilians and damaging infrastructure like their power and heating systems. Jody.
SPEAKER 03 :
A lot going on on seems like multiple war issues around the globe. The UN Security Council has held another meeting on President Trump’s Gaza peace plan. So what came out of that?
SPEAKER 16 :
That’s right, Jody. The U.S. is urging global support for President Trump’s 20-point Gaza plan. They call it the strongest path to finally restoring security and preventing Hamas from rebuilding. At yesterday’s U.N. Security Council meeting, American diplomat Jennifer LoCetta urged other countries to back the international stabilization force to secure Gaza. JENNIFER LOCETTA, U.N.
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Diplomat, Now the international community must move quickly to deny Hamas any chance to reconstitute. I offer my gratitude on behalf of the United States to all of those offering to help implement the 20-point plan in Gaza, including the International Stabilization Force. We invite member states ready to act through the Board of Peace to step up and pledge personnel, equipment, and funding for the ISF. Stability will require burden sharing, and your support will help make President Trump’s vision for peace a reality.
SPEAKER 16 :
Meanwhile, Hamas terrorists continue to attack Israeli soldiers in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria, even under the fragile ceasefire.
SPEAKER 01 :
Hamas must be disarmed, not partially, not symbolically, fully and irreversibly. The truth is that there can be no peace, no stability, and no future for Gaza while Hamas remains armed.
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NICK SCHIFRIN That was Israeli Ambassador to the UN, Danny Danon. He stressed that Israel’s military will act to protect its citizens and stop terrorists from regrouping. The U.S. is pushing for this international stabilization force to secure Gaza, safeguard civilians, and guarantee that aid reaches people, not Hamas terrorists, Jody.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Casey, let me bring our attention a little bit closer to home. I know, as we actually reported yesterday, President Trump was expected to announce an extension of the Obamacare subsidies, but that obviously didn’t happen. What caused the delay? What’s happening there?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yeah, Jody, the White House had, you’re right, been expected to announce some kind of plan to extend Obamacare subsidies yesterday, but officials held off after opposition from some Republican lawmakers. Now, this plan, which is aimed at easing these rising health insurance premiums, it could include income limits and minimum payments to prevent abuse, which is something Republicans would ask for if there ever was a vote. But Democrats argue only a full extension will protect families from these higher costs. Of course, Jody, this is the issue that kept the government shut down for 43 days earlier this year. And those subsidies are set to expire on December 31st, New Year’s Eve, raising the pressure on lawmakers to act. White House officials, they say the discussions are ongoing with no official announcement just yet.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. Yes, the pressure is on. Casey, thank you so much. Always appreciate the updates that you provide us. Keep up the great work. All right. I want to continue this discussion here on health care reform and bring in a member of Congress who has more than just thoughts on this issue. He actually has a plan. And joining me now to discuss this is Congressman Eric Burleson. He’s a member of the House Oversight Committee. He also chairs the Subcommittee on Economic Growth, Energy Policy, and Regulatory Affairs. He represents the 7th Congressional District of Missouri. Congressman Burleson, great to see you again. Welcome back to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 08 :
Hey, Jody. Good to be back.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, you know, I guess one good thing, if there was any, that came out of the government shutdown is that it revealed to the American public some pretty critical information regarding Obamacare. And so let me just ask you, do you think the Democrats’ so-called strategy to shut down the government probably backfired on them? Is that fair to say?
SPEAKER 08 :
I would think so, and I was really proud of Speaker Johnson and Republicans for holding the line, really proud that the president held the line and said we’re not going to give in to the kind of terrorist threats that the Democrats were making. But what the Democrats did is they kind of gave us a hand. In order to ask for these subsidies, these enhanced COVID-era subsidies to be extended, they had to admit that Obamacare is a complete and abject failure. And so now that we’ve had that discussion, now that that’s been proven, I don’t think it’s a good idea for us to discuss throwing more money at this project that has clearly been a failure. If anything, this has given us an opportunity to do something. Something big, something bold, something beautiful, and that would be a MAHA plan, something that Trump can rally behind that gives people freedom and choice and lets people pick the insurance plans and the doctors and the networks and all of that that they want.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. I want to get to that here in just a moment. But before we do that, a part of the issue in all of this Obamacare stuff is the growing pushback that we’ve seen against the continued funding of abortion, so-called transgender procedures. That really has been a red line, hasn’t it, for Republicans?
SPEAKER 08 :
It certainly is for me and for many Republicans. And that’s where whenever I’ve spoken to the speaker about this, I’ve said, you know, strategically, I don’t know how we could possibly, even if we were okay with extending these stupid subsidies that go to insurance companies, by the way, not to people, even if we were okay with that, we’re not okay with allowing those to be spent on abortions. And so we would have to have some kind of hide language in there. which means that we’ll lose all the Democrats’ votes. And now you’re talking about a reconciliation package, potentially. And if you’re going to do that, you might as well do what the American people want and pass a Republican solution, not just a patchwork on Obamacare.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, that’s a perfect segue. Let’s talk about the plan that you have on this issue. There’s been ideas floated around for a long, long time, but we’re in full court press right now. So tell us about the plan that you’re proposing.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, Jody, look, first and foremost, what I would suggest just politically that we should not touch the ACA, Affordable Care Act, or any of those plans. We shouldn’t touch really any of the insurance products that exist today. What we really need to do is create a new product that Trump can rally behind that simply gives people the freedom or the choice to choose. It’s almost like a life raft off of this sinking Titanic. And so, yeah, And the way this would work, every American can have a Maha account, and they can fund that account with their own tax-free dollars, or their employer can get the tax deduction and fund it with their money or a combination thereof. And then in addition— We will allow for individuals who are seeking charitable aid or help to be able to request that from their friends, their neighbors, from a charity, and that could come into their Maha account as well. From that account, you’re able to purchase a direct primary care. You’re able to purchase any insurance product, and I mean any insurance product that you want if you want to do that. health-sharing plans, if you want to do an association plan. If you want to buy Obamacare through your Maha account, you can. I wouldn’t recommend it. I don’t think anybody would be that foolish. But they will give you so many options that the American people will finally be able to choose which network that they belong to which doctors that they are in network with though if they don’t like a pbm or prescription drug management program they can not choose to have one at all or pick a different one this will suddenly put all of this decision matrix in the hands of the consumer and suddenly you’ll start seeing price transparency because doctors and hospitals they’ll understand that if they want to get people’s business they’ll have to do that
SPEAKER 03 :
What kind of reaction to this are you getting from your colleagues?
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m getting tremendous reaction. Overwhelming, really. And honestly, this is kind of common sense stuff. A lot of these ideas are things that Chip Roy has—we’ve talked about, members of Freedom Caucus. I’ve even heard Donald Trump tweet about this in— in a broad overview sweep, where the idea that’s unique to my plan is that in order to try to address the critical issue in America, which is that we’re unhealthy. We as a people are some of the most unhealthy population of any country in the world. And when you look at the food that we eat, we eat garbage food. So we’re spending less money per capita on food, and we’re paying for it in the back end with expensive health care. And so if we can encourage, find some way to encourage people to purchase healthy food, and I mean protein, produce, and vitamins and supplements and fitness, then I think we can kind of get ahead of a lot of these costs. And that’s where the Maha plan works, because it provides each person a purse, a monthly purse of $150, where with your own money, tax-free money, you can go buy the steaks or the chicken or the lettuce, vegetables, whatever you want to buy, as long as it’s unprocessed, healthy protein and produce.
SPEAKER 03 :
Sounds like a great idea. We look forward to hearing more about this. Thank you, Missouri Congressman Eric Burleson. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. Thank you for joining us today on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you, Jody.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, friends, listen, we’ve got a lot more to cover. If you would like to help us encourage Congress not to fund abortion and so forth, text ACA to 67742, and we’ll be right back.
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How should Christians think about the thorny issues shaping our culture? How should Christians address deceitful ideas like transgenderism, critical theory, or assisted suicide? How can Christians navigate raising children in a broken culture, the war on gender roles, or rebuilding our once great nation? Outstanding is a podcast from The Washington Stand dedicated to these critical conversations. Outstanding seeks to tear down what our corrupt culture lifts up with an aim to take every thought and every idea captive to the obedience of Christ. Whether policies or partisan politics, whether conflict in America or conflict abroad, join us and our guests as we examine the headlines through the lens of Scripture and explore how Christians can faithfully exalt Christ in all of life. Follow Outstanding on your favorite podcast app and look for new episodes each week.
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SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. Thank you so much for joining us today. Real quickly, I just wanted to say I got cut off at the last segment, but the time is now. We need to call on leaders in Congress to stop those subsidies from continuing to fund insurance plans. that are covering abortion and so-called gender transition procedures. And we’ve got a petition here at FRC to help make that happen and to send our voices to say, stop, make sure those things are not funded. And we want to send this message to House Speaker Johnson, as well as Senate Majority Leader John Thune. If you’d like to sign the petition, and this is where I was when we got cut off, simply text the word ACA, ACA to 67742, and let your voice be heard. This is a very important issue. All right. Yesterday, a federal judge threw out criminal charges against former FBI Director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James, ruling that the U.S. attorney appointed to bring the cases was unlawfully installed Well, in response to that, U.S. Attorney General Pam Bondi told reporters that the DOJ will be taking all available legal action, including an immediate appeal to hold James Comey and Leticia James accountable for their unlawful conduct. What does the judge’s decision ultimately mean for these two cases and what might be the way forward through all of this? Well, joining me now by phone to discuss this and more is Congressman Brad Knott. He serves on several committees, including the Judiciary Committee. He represents the 13th Congressional District of North Carolina. Congressman Knott, welcome back to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, sir. It’s good to be here. Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, thank you for joining us. Listen, first of all, let me just say, uh, with Thanksgiving approaching, I do want to note, at least from my understanding that the turkeys that were pardoned at the white house today actually came from your district. So, uh, I suppose congratulations are in order for that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I know that, I know that those turkeys are mighty thankful and yes, North Carolina 13 leads the country in many respects and, and, uh, We have some of the finest turkeys around, so thank you for bringing that up.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right. There’s a few running around in Congress, too, from what I understand. But all that aside, listen, prior to serving in Congress, you worked alongside law enforcement at all levels to prosecute organized crime in cases that touched virtually every corner of the country. So when you look at what happened, what the judge did yesterday regarding Comey and Letitia James, what were your thoughts on that?
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, unfortunately, it’s an extremely bad look for the judiciary, and it looks like it’s a blatant political play, and it seizes on an interpretation of the statute that does not hold water in practical terms or constitutional terms. And I was very much disheartened by it. I really was. Again, it was a politicization of the judiciary that I’ve unfortunately become too accustomed to. to seeing and it needs to be undone and these cases need to proceed on the merits rather than with this sort of political weigh-in.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, on the merits, I think is spot on. These are pretty significant cases. And just to be thrown out like this, and I’m certainly no attorney, but everything I’m reading, at least most everything I’m reading, like you, have huge question marks about this. I mentioned a little while ago, but Attorney General Pam Bondi told reporters that the DOJ will be taking all questions available legal action, including an immediate appeal. What are some of the actions that you’re aware of that the DOJ might take?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, the DOJ can certainly make an expedited request here to stay that ruling and to continue the case as they were planning on doing and as they were working towards. And essentially, I don’t know if you understand the crux of this issue, but when the new president comes into power, The Senate can often delay approving appointees. And in every district around the country, there’s around 100 districts for federal prosecutorial purposes. And in the Eastern District of Virginia, there was an interim appointment named Eric Siebert. And those interim appointments further the prosecutorial directives of the president on an interim basis. And those interim appointments are supposed to last 120 days. Once that appointment reaches the 121st day, the court that is within the Eastern District of Virginia can affirm another 120-day tenure if the Senate has not gotten around to approving the prosecutor. And in this particular case, the predecessor to Ms. Halligan, the current interim U.S. attorney, resigned. And Jim Comey and Letitia Jayne said because the 120-day period had expired, only an Article III judge could fill that slot. And that argument is unbelievably problematic because if you think about it, that is saying that an Article III judge has to choose the prosecutor who will be bringing cases before that judge. That’s an unbelievable conflict of interest. It’s a separation of powers issue. The U.S. attorneys and the interim U.S. attorneys are entirely a function of the presidency, the Article II power. And with that being said, I think that this interpretation, this ruling, I think it will be quickly overturned, and then the case should be able to be released and we can go forward as they were planning on it. Does that make sense to you?
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s very nuanced. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it really does. And that creates some real constitutional issues, what you just described. And so I agree with you that this is probably going to be overturned rather quickly, but it’s just a brazen act of either ignorance to the law or political activism is what it appears to be. So I appreciate you going over that. Listen, we’ve only got about a minute or so left, so we’ve got to be real quickly. I wanted to shift gears slightly. The Epstein file is coming out. We’ve only got 30 days. A lot is unfolding here in all of this. What do you think is going to end up happening with all this?
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, I hope that the Epstein files, I hope that they’re going to be released in a way that gets any kind of criminal conduct publicized. I hope that it can be as thorough as it can possibly be. And I hope that the Department of Justice will work with their attorneys around the country to, again, dump criminal activity, dump the flight logs, dump the island visitors, dump the folks who knew they were hanging out with Jeffrey Epstein, even though he had been convicted of child sex crimes, but protect people who were completely innocent bystanders. That’s my hope. We hope so, too. Yeah, that might be too much to ask for, but, you know, there’s something worth achieving, and that’s it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you, North Carolina Congressman Brad Knott. Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. Thank you for joining us today. Coming up next, we’ll share some good news coming out of Nigeria. So stay tuned. We’ll be right back.
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At Family Research Council, we believe religious freedom is a fundamental human right that all governments must protect. For years, Islamist militants in Nigeria have targeted Christians and other religious minority groups with brutal violence. Since 2009, 52,000 Christians have been slaughtered. A staggering 89% of Christian martyrs in the world today are from Nigeria. The first Trump administration declared Nigeria a country of particular concern, a designation reserved for countries whose governments engage in or tolerate religious freedom violations. However, this designation of Nigeria was quickly reversed by the Biden administration. Following consistent calls from FRC President Tony Perkins and other religious leaders across the U.S., President Donald Trump has responded.
SPEAKER 14 :
DONALD TRUMP, President of the United States of America, Christianity is facing an existential threat in Nigeria. Thousands and thousands of Christians are being killed. I am hereby making Nigeria a country of particular concern.
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This is a huge step forward for the protection of Christians in Nigeria, as well as religious freedom across the world. While this opens the door for the US government to pressure Nigerian leaders to protect vulnerable Christians, it is only the beginning. We must continue to pray diligently, work strategically, and stand firm for the protection of religious liberty across the globe.
SPEAKER 07 :
Looking for a trusted source of news that shares your Christian values? Turn to The Washington Stand, your ultimate destination for informed, faith-centered reporting. Our dedicated team goes beyond the headlines, delivering stories that matter most to believers. From breaking events to cultural insights, we provide clear, compassionate coverage through a biblical lens. Discover news you can trust at The Washington Stand, where faith and facts meet every day.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch. I’m Jody Heist sitting in for Tony, and thank you for being with us. All right, last Friday, over 300 students were kidnapped from a Nigerian Catholic school by some unknown assailants. Thankfully, over the weekend, about 50 of them were able to escape, and they are now reunited with their families, but the others, of course, are still missing. And with the situation for Nigerian Christians remaining such a dire situation, and the kidnapping here of Christians continues to be ongoing, will the Trump administration’s recent redesignation of Nigeria as a country of particular concern move the needle on all of this? Well, joining me now to discuss this is Clint Lyons. He’s the executive director of iReach Global, whose organization has been serving affected believers there in Nigeria, despite the threat of violence. So, Clint, welcome back to Washington Watch. It’s an honor to have you.
SPEAKER 10 :
Thanks, Jody. Great to be with you.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, thanks to you and your organization for being willing to go to a very dangerous situation. I know you were there just a few months ago this past summer. Why don’t we start with that trip and just tell us a little bit about the work that your organization is doing in Nigeria?
SPEAKER 10 :
Great. Well, iReach Global works with persecuted Christians in Africa. And you’re right, on my last trip to Nigeria, which was just over the summer, I had a chance to talk with several of the people there who had gone into many of these areas where the attacks had taken place. They walked through the broken glass on the ground, saw the smoldering buildings, and have seen the freshly dug graves, the mass graves that are there. And I can tell you that what we’re seeing in the media here is one thing, but what the reality on the ground is, is so much more devastating. There are I think, like you said earlier, more than 7,000 Christians have been killed this year alone. That’s the latest count. It’s gone up since then. And so as I talk to the people on the ground there and as I see their faces, and especially the people who just live in this constant combat, right now they’re sleeping with one eye open and just praying they make it through the next day.
SPEAKER 03 :
Wow. I cannot even imagine what they’re going through. And I know my wife and I and millions of others are praying for this situation. Tell me, Clint, what you know about this most recent group of kidnapped Nigerian children. Do we have any information of their whereabouts or condition?
SPEAKER 10 :
Right now, we don’t have a solid idea of much of what happened. In fact, we aren’t even 100% sure who these people are at this point. But what we do know is that these 300 girls were kidnapped, over 300 girls, plus many of their teachers. I think it was 12 of their teachers were kidnapped and taken. And like you said earlier, which is great, we had some of them that were able to escape. But, you know, the… The prognosis for a situation like this is unfortunately not a positive one. So often we see these kidnappings happen and these girls are sold into slavery or they are forced converted at gunpoint into Islam. And so I’m prayerful, and I’m praying that we can figure out a way to see some progress here. But like I said, it’s dire right now. And it’s not just here. It’s all across the country. The situation is dire for Christians.
SPEAKER 03 :
What have we heard, if anything, from these 50 who escaped? Are they talking?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah, that’s something I haven’t heard. If they’ve talked, I haven’t seen anything about that. But I guarantee you from knowing people who have personally knowing people have personally been kidnapped. It’s it’s a very, very traumatic experience and one that they probably don’t want to talk about immediately. And it’s going to take some work and some counseling to hopefully get them to a place where they can tell their story. And I hope they can someday. But that can’t be expected right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
So what sort of impact do you think might come from the Trump administration’s redesignation of Nigeria as a country of particular concern last month?
SPEAKER 10 :
Right. Well, that was a great move, and I really applaud President Trump for that move. Nigeria has been it’s needed to be on this list for a long time of countries of particular concern. And the the move to actually make that designation was a big step. Now, in the very beginning, we saw Nigeria kind of snap back in line and put forward a face that they were going to cooperate. In the past few weeks, we’ve seen less of that. Unfortunately, I was hopeful and I was prayerful that they would make the right decisions. But in the past few weeks, we haven’t seen that. And so my prayer is that this can get resolved through diplomacy, through sanctions, through targeted limiting of bank accounts and freezing funds. And I believe it can. I think it can. But now is the time for action for the U.S. government to see a positive outcome in this situation.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, now is certainly the time for political action, but it’s also a time for action with Christians. How can we best be praying for our brothers and sisters in Christ there?
SPEAKER 10 :
You know, it’s really hard for them right now. I was speaking with our Nigeria director this morning, and he was literally telling me we go to bed every night and sleep with one eye open because we don’t know where they’re going to attack next. These were at one time confined attacks to a certain area, and now we see them spreading across the country unchecked. And so pray for courage, pray for safety, obviously, and pray that the bold witness of Christ would continue to move forward.
SPEAKER 03 :
Amen. Amen. All right, audience, you heard it. Let’s make this a matter of prayer. Thank you, Clint Lyons from iReach Global. Heartbreaking story. Thank you for keeping us up to speed. God bless you and happy Thanksgiving to you. All right, coming up next, Regent University’s Dr. A.J. Nolte will break down all the latest details in the peace negotiations between Ukraine and Russia. So stay tuned. We’ll be back with those details right after this.
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SPEAKER 17 :
For over 4,000 years, the Jewish people have had legal, historical, and biblical ties to the land of Israel, especially the heartland of Israel, Judea and Samaria, which much of the world still calls the West Bank. To Israelis, Judea and Samaria is far more than a name. It’s the center of their ancestral homeland where nearly 80% of the Bible’s events took place. Abraham purchased property in Hebron, Jacob in Shechem, Joshua made an altar on Mount Ebal and led the Israelites into a covenant before God. On Mount Gerizim, overlooking Shechem, Jesus talked to the Samaritan woman at the well about worshiping neither on Mount Gerizim nor in Jerusalem, but in spirit and in truth. Judea and Samaria is nearly a quarter of Israel’s current land mass, not a small strip of land on the Jordan River, but a vital and strategic part of the nation’s identity. The October 7th massacre, launched from Gaza, shattered the illusion that giving away territory brings peace. Gaza, which was once seen as the cornerstone of a two-state solution, became a launchpad for terror. Today, only 21 percent of Israelis support a Palestinian state. Trust in a two-state solution has all but collapsed. The Middle East is changing. Iran’s grip is weakening. New alliances are forming. But Western countries and some U.S. officials still chase the mirage of a two-state solution. History speaks clearly. The 2005 Gaza withdrawal, backed by the U.S., led not to peace but to a terrorist regime. Judea and Samaria are 24 times larger than Gaza, deeply woven into Israel’s geographic and spiritual fabric. To surrender them would not bring peace. It would invite conflict and existential danger. Family Research Council stands with Israel’s rightful claim to sovereignty. It’s time for America to do the same for history, for justice, and for lasting security in the Middle East.
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SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m Jody Heiss. An honor to be sitting in today for Tony. Thank you for tuning in with us today. Before I get to our next guest, I want to point you in the direction of a brand new FRC resource that I think is just going to be fantastic for this Thanksgiving weekend. It’s called America’s First Thanksgiving, Where Faith Met Freedom. Folks, this is a beautifully designed digital resource that will help you explore the faith-filled origins of Thanksgiving. You’ll learn how the pilgrims and Scripture and God’s provisions all came together to shape that very first Thanksgiving. that now, of course, is one of our most cherished holidays. But this resource is yours absolutely free. We want you to go get it and enjoy it in this week. Simply text the word Thanksgiving to 67742. That’s Thanksgiving to 67742. Okay, following concerns that were expressed over President Trump’s initial 28-point peace plan for Russia and Ukraine, there’s now a revised edition, a 19-point peace plan, that’s now the focus of all the talks going around. And it has been very well received, at least more favorably, by Kiev and our European allies. There are still some points to work through, and Ukrainian President Zelensky reportedly wants to meet with President Trump as soon as possible to try to finalize this agreement. But what can we make of all these latest developments? Well, joining me now to discuss this and more is Dr. A.J. Nolte. He’s the associate professor of politics at Regent University’s Robertson School of Government, and he’s the director of Regent’s Israel Institute. Dr. Nolte, welcome back to Washington Watch. Always an honor to have you and happy Thanksgiving week to you. Joe, it’s a pleasure to be with you and happy Thanksgiving to you and everybody on Washington Watch as well. Well, thank you. All right, so let’s talk about this 19-point peace plan. We don’t really know a whole lot about it. We do have a little bit more information about the original 28-point plan, so maybe let’s start there. What was it about that first plan that kind of stuck out to you?
SPEAKER 09 :
So the first question that you have to ask if you’re trying to figure out what’s been, you know, with all these 28-point plan and 19-point plan is, so what actually is going on? Because we have leaks of this 28-point plan. We have confusion about, is this a US plan or Russian plan? Was the Secretary of State even involved in it? What’s going on with that? So here’s my kind of, as of Tuesday, as we’re recording this, here’s my hypothesis about what happened. I suspect that kind of what’s going on is there are two camps in the Trump administration itself on how we should handle it. One is sort of more of a let’s get out as quickly as possible. camp and not camp emphasizes more direct negotiations with Russia. And then there’s more what I think is the Secretary of State’s position and position of some of the other, certainly position of some members of the Republican Senate conference, which is that we need to back Ukraine to the extent that we can, but also, you know, end the war, but end the war maybe more on favorable terms to Ukraine and the European allies. Trump, I think, ultimately wants to see the European allies do more, wants to see the Ukrainians do more, and also wants to kind of let these two camps run on two separate tracks. This is a thing that Trump often does. When he’s getting conflicting advice, he kind of lets both sides play things out and see who gives him the best advice and sort of what works. And so I suspect what happened is we had two tracks going. One, where some of the folks maybe more in the let’s get out quickly camp or negotiating with the Russians, they got a plan that they were working with on the Russian side, sort of like the Russians’ initial offer, where there was a second track of conversations with Zelensky that was going on. So because the 19-point plan and the 28-point plan, there’s some similarities, but both of them kind of had to, I think, be in the works. So I think the U.S. was sort of trying to get a sense of both sides’ opening positions and harmonize them. And then there were some leaks that came out from that and some confusion about exactly what was going on as sort of different factions in Washington were trying to spin information in their direction. Bottom line is the 19-point plan is one the Ukrainians are happy with, the Russians are not. 28-point plan, the Russians are happy with, the Ukrainians are not. And so now it’s going to kind of be up to President Trump to figure out where we go from here.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah, I mean, that’s a good point. Even U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio reportedly told senators on a phone call this week that the 28-point plan, just as you said, was essentially a wish list for the Russians. And so now is it what you think is just the opposite, that this 19-point framework is but a wish list for the Ukrainians, and we’re still going to have to go back to the drawing board and work through both of these?
SPEAKER 09 :
I think that the 19-point incorporates some stuff from the 28, but they were trying to figure out, I think, I suspect, and obviously we won’t know until the book on this is written, which somebody certainly will write a book on this eventually, but I suspect they were looking at the 28-point plan and saying, okay, what’s Russia’s opening position? And then going back to the Ukrainians and say, which of these components are non-negotiable? So I think what Rubio was sort of trying to say was not that the U.S. didn’t have any input, but that we understand this is sort of Russia’s starting position. This isn’t going to be the final plan. We’re going to go back to the Ukrainians and say from this, OK, what can you accept? What can you not accept from this plan? And now they’re kind of going back and forth on the Russian side. The deal breakers for the Ukrainians, of course, were kind of – there were a lot of – blocks on Ukrainian military size. There were not as many restraints on Russia. Ukraine was going to give up territory that Russia doesn’t currently hold in that 28-point plan. And there was no ongoing European security commitment. Part of this is also I think that the Russians want direct negotiations between Russia and the United States and nobody else. They don’t want anybody else to be a player. But actually, if you kind of look at what Trump has been saying consistently, he wants the Europeans to play a more substantial role in Ukraine. And I think he’s looking for – I look at things through the lens of Israel. Israel is that ally that just does everything. They do as much as they possibly can. They don’t ask us to do too much. And so Trump is kind of looking at the Europeans and Ukraine and is going to say, who’s the ally that’s going to stand up and be competent and take leadership on this? And then we can play a role of helping in the background because Trump’s idea is, look, this is actually in your backyard. And so I don’t think he wants it to be a U.S.-Russia thing. He wants the Europeans involved. And so that’s going to be a point of friction between Trump and Putin moving forward, I think.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that certainly needs to happen. So what do we know at this point about this 19-point plan? There are leaks all about, but do we actually know at least parts of what this 19-point plan is all about?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, it reverses several things in the 28-point plan. It makes the starting point for negotiations about territory, the current front lines, as opposed to ceding parts of that Donetsk Oblast that the Russians are trying to take right now. It also doesn’t make as firm a commitment that Ukraine is never going to be in NATO. It says that there’s a normal process that they’ll go through, but doesn’t guarantee that accession. And it also has the idea of sort of a European-led tripwire force that’s going to be in Ukraine as a deterrent to Russia actually taking any further steps. So it might be sort of like they’re not formally in NATO, but there’s some sort of non-NATO ally considerations there. And there is envisioning of a European force on the ground. I think that’s going to appeal to Trump because he doesn’t want our guys—and he’s going to think, you know, look, if we need to hold the Russians off— Let’s have the Europeans actually have some skin in the game. And that is something that is very consistent we’ve seen from President Trump in both this term and the first term.
SPEAKER 03 :
But it still seems to me that we still have a lot of ground to make up here. Putin has basically said that the original 28-point plan is his basis for a final peace settlement. And the Kremlin has indicated that they would reject any other modified plan whatsoever. claiming they do, that the 19-point plan has erased some key understandings that they believe that they had with Trump. So are the hurdles still as big as they appear to be? Or is there truly some sort of middle ground between these two plans? Or are we just really walking a bridge to nowhere right now?
SPEAKER 09 :
Bridge to nowhere isn’t necessarily determinative, but it’s closer to that. And here’s why. Trump wants a deal more than anybody else. He has the highest desire for a deal. My read is that Zelensky wants a deal, but he wants one that’s going to prevent Russia from doing this again. He’s willing to make concessions for that. But for him, a non-negotiable is a security guarantee from the US, from the Europeans, from somebody that Russia is not going to be able to do unopposed again what they did in 2022. And Putin, I really don’t think, based on the way that he has been acting, I don’t get the sense that Putin feels like he really needs to stop the war. He feels like he’s winning. He feels like Russia is inevitably going to win. And he doesn’t see any reason to stop the war. And so he’s not really that open to negotiating. So the irony is that while the initial plan looked like Trump and Putin were very close, I think in terms of their general attitude, Trump really wants a deal, really wants to see this done. And Putin just doesn’t perceive himself as having a whole lot of motivation. And so then if you’re President Trump, you’ve got to be thinking about what is going to convince Putin that it is in his interest to end this war, even if he doesn’t get everything he wants.
SPEAKER 03 :
I think the screws would have to be tightened on that to come to that end result. And there are ways for that could happen. Is there any discussion about the 20,000 or whatever it may be, children, Ukrainian children that in essence have been kidnapped, taken away through all this war, for them to be returned to their Ukrainian families?
SPEAKER 09 :
I think it’s going to be a hard sell for any peace negotiations on the Ukrainian side that doesn’t involve that happening. But from what I haven’t seen, it’s not front burner. A lot of it is sort of the broader security issues. But that is definitely something that needs to be considered. as we kind of move forward with this. I think another question that maybe as Christians and as evangelical Christians in the United States want to think about is, okay, so if there’s territory that’s going to Russia, are there going to be religious freedom guarantees? Because we know Russia has a history of arresting evangelicals, Baptists, Pentecostals in Russia and also in parts of Ukraine that they occupy. So there are a couple of dogs that haven’t barked. I think religious freedom is one. I think that issue with the kids is another one. And so we’ll have to kind of see what happens with some of those factors.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I’d like to get your input on this, too, because I think you will have as good of an understanding of this as anyone. In what ways are the efforts that we’re watching now with Russia and Ukraine similar to the efforts for peace that were utilized for Israel and Hamas? How are they similar or how are they different?
SPEAKER 09 :
I think they’re similar in the sense that Trump likes this two-team framework. In other words, he’s got a group of people that are negotiating with the Arabs and a group of people that are negotiating with Israel. And he runs that dual structure. You can kind of see some evidence of that in the negotiations that happened with the Israel-Hamas peace deal. And there he was able to pull it off. Now, I think he was helped there, number one, by the U.S. strike on Iran, and number two, whether it was the intention or not, by the Israeli strike on Qatar, because that convinced the Qataris that actually Israel really is a militarily powerful country that they need to take seriously, and that maybe some of this mucking about has been a luxury. And so they really realized, hey, we can use some protection more from Trump. The problem that he’s got – I think he’s got the same dual-track approach. He’s using Rubio as kind of more his envoy for the Ukrainians. It looks like Dan Driscoll, the army secretary, is kind of his point person for the Russians. Witkoff is in the background. The problem is he doesn’t have the leverage on Russia that he had over Qatar. and Iran and the Palestinian Authority and the other backers of Hamas, because Russia does not at the moment feel deterred, and Russia is not afraid of what Trump is going to do. They think they have absolute freedom of action. And it’s much harder to deter a country that has nuclear weapons and that sees themselves as winning the war, whereas Qatar, I think, because of that Israeli strike, had a lot more incentive to come to the table and agree to something that Trump is going to put out there in exchange for U.S. protection.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, speaking of Israel, last week the U.S.-sponsored resolution on Gaza passed the U.N. Security Council, and I’d like to get your take on that.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, I mean, with all the peace plans in Gaza, there’s good and there’s bad. Let me start with the good, because I think the good ultimately might be more important in the long run. And the good is this. You have a commitment to the idea that Any future for the Palestinians requires Palestinian reform rather than Israeli territorial concession. That’s a huge change because the framework before this with the UN especially was always if there was going to be any sort of peace deal, it was going to be Israel trading away territory for recognition. Now the onus is put on the Palestinians for reform. The other thing is that this international stabilization force, in theory at least, has teeth and has a real actual combat mission. But the challenge, as is always the case with the UN, is, okay, you’ve got this ISF in theory. Where are the troops going to come from? Where are you actually going to find non-Israeli soldiers who are willing to go into the tunnels and fight Hamas? And the devil is in the details when it comes to how you implement those reforms and how do you ensure that Hamas doesn’t simply come back again under another name in the Strip and even metastasize into parts of Judea and Samaria. You know, there’s been a sea change in terms of future expectations, but the short-term security situation, I would say time will tell.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and they’re even talking about potentially coming to a place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood. And, you know, I kind of scratched my head with that, with what in the world does that mean? We’ve only got less than a minute, but what’s your thoughts on where that ends up?
SPEAKER 09 :
Self-determination and statehood are different. And I like the self-determination phrase because that implies that people are having some sort of say or referendum in their future. And that type of referendum implies that you’re doing work to prepare for that. I think a pathway, people tend to think of a pathway as short-term. I would say you need to look at this as at least a 20-year process. because there’s deconstruction, de-radicalization, fixing the education process, and then maybe there’s some sort of referendum where the Palestinians will be given certain options about their future. I think Israel could commit to something like that without necessarily committing to the creation of a Palestinian state that right now would be a failed state with no leaders, no borders, Sharia law as its governing document, and really a hostile attitude toward Israel.
SPEAKER 03 :
Very, very interesting, fascinating discussion as always. We love having you on, Dr. A.J. Nolte of Regent University. Wishing you the best of Thanksgivings. And again, thank you for joining us today on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thanks, Jody. Happy Thanksgiving to you too.
SPEAKER 03 :
All right, friends, that wraps it up for us yet again today. Hope you have a fantastic evening and we’ll see you again tomorrow right here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 11 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council. To support our efforts to advance faith, family, and freedom, please text GIVE to 67742. That’s GIVE to 67742. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information, please visit TonyPerkins.com.
