In this episode of Rush to Reason, host John Rush dives deep into how everyday issues are intertwined with politics, often catching individuals by surprise. With fiery discussion and critical analysis, John and his guests examine the political maneuvering happening in Denver, particularly around strip clubs and their workers’ classification. Discover how local politics can have far-reaching effects in industries that many don’t expect.
SPEAKER 03 :
This is Rush to Reason.
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With your host, John Rush.
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It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Okay, really quick, because I’ve got another segment that I was talking about yesterday that I wanted to add a few things to today, but what we were just talking about really does kind of coincide with this, because remember, folks, despite what a lot of people might think, there are but just a few things, and I mean a few things. that happen in people’s lives that don’t involve politics. There’s that old saying, you may not care about politics, but it sure cares about you. So you may not think that there’s a particular subject that really has anything to do with politics, but I will tell you that without but just a few exceptions, It does. So yesterday I was talking about the strip clubs and the decision that was made by the judge and the decision about Denver and all of that. I’ll get into that in a moment because I want to recap a few things from that and I want to add some things to what I didn’t get a chance to say yesterday. And I was talking about yesterday how, in that case, the left is using the right to get what it wants. My point is, and back to what Andy and I were talking about this last hour, the left is masterful in taking what we have. And literally using it against us. Always. Are they not?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Well, we were talking about when a reporter asks you if you support Trump or MAGA. When they ask that in Colorado, they’re putting you in a lose-lose situation.
SPEAKER 12 :
They’re pinning you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. Because they know that if you go against Trump or MAGA, you lose your base and you’re going to lose. If you embrace Trump or MAGA, you’re embracing something that doesn’t sell well. to a majority in Colorado, so you’re going to lose. You have to keep in mind, their whole reason that they ask the question is they want you to lose. That’s why you have to come back with the correct answer. It’s very difficult.
SPEAKER 12 :
It is. And so all that being said, because that’s exactly what they’re doing with all of the MAGA, Rhino Watch, end of things, and even a listener last hour, a texter asked, do you think some of the folks there might be plants from the Democrats? Yeah, absolutely I do, because they know— they can drum all of that up, they can energize that, they can make that even stronger than what it would be otherwise, and at the end of the day, win. Yeah. And by the way, the way I can prove that, and I’ve said this numerous times, I’ll keep saying it, given the fact that this show, myself and or Andy, is never mentioned anywhere inside of Rhino Watch, proves my point. Yeah, that’s true. And the reason I say that is because they don’t want a single person listening to the commentary andy and i just gave the last hour putting reason into a lot of what we talk about and what’s going on in that particular realm they don’t want anyone hearing that because all they want is their dogma and and their their you know their dogmatic approach to everything and you know it’s either my way or the highway that’s all they want their supporters hearing andy right ever right because they know it won’t sell that’s right they they don’t want them listening to us is my point that’s why we’re never mentioned
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I mean, take a look at this. In CD3, Hope Scheppelman right now is running against Jeff Hurd. Okay, Hurd is obviously going to win the primary, but here’s the thing. Why is Hope running against him? Now, she is a Rhino Watch Davidian, okay? Why is she even running against him to hurt him? She is running to try to hurt the Republican candidate. The idea is this, that during the primary, she wants to get as many people as possible to say, I won’t vote for him in the regular election because I’m so angry at him over the things that Hope has said. That’s her only goal. She has no chance, and she knows it, of winning this primary. She’s only looking to damage the Republican candidate. What does that tell you?
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, everything Andy, you and I have been talking about. And again, for those of you that maybe think that Andy and I are loons and we talk about a particular subject too much and we rant and rave about this, folks, the reason why on literally a weekly basis we rant and rave about this is because I’m going to remind everybody, I’m sick and tired of losing. Yeah. And I’m sick and tired of losing because we’re not smart enough to win. Now, we are. Smart enough to win, by the way. We don’t apply ourselves in the right way, and we become far too emotional rather than strategic when it comes to winning. Yeah. That’s exactly what we do. We’re too emotional.
SPEAKER 06 :
We’re way too emotional. And that’s why they want to play on our emotions. They want to take advantage. They want to ask, are you for Trump and MAGA? By the way, once again, folks, if you didn’t hear the first hour, the answer is very simple. The candidates should say, oh, do I support Trump and MAGA? I support you. I support you, the Colorado citizens. Anytime that Trump and MAGA benefit you, I support them. If they don’t, I don’t. Now, if you want to hear some great ways that I think they have benefited you, I’m happy to share those. There you go.
SPEAKER 12 :
Okay. So at the end of the day, I’m going to come back and talk about how in this other example that I gave yesterday, which I’ll rehash it because some of you may not have heard of what I had to say yesterday, and this is a topic that I’ve talked about in the past. Fair warning. This is about a particular – Case against strip clubs in Denver and whether they’re workers, they’re in this case performers and even some of the bartenders and so on. Are they truly employees or are they 1099 contractors like they’ve been for really a gazillion years? And that’s the way it’s run in that particular industry. And what I talked about yesterday is trust me when I say this. These strip clubs, and I’ll come back and get into this more because I’ve got many examples of where this will go if we allow it to. This is an example of the left using the right to get what it wants, which is extraction of money from more businesses because if they can get a reclassification of these particular workers in strip clubs, they can do it in a lot of other businesses as well. And they’re using the Christian right to help them in this because strip clubs are bad. Yeah. And they know that. They want us to be their passes. So they’re playing us, folks. They’re playing us. So I’ll talk more about that as soon as I come back. I’ve got many examples along those lines, which, by the way, I’m probably the only talk show host in town talking about that particular topic in the way that we’re talking about it because I can see through what the city of Denver is actually doing. Veteran Windows and Doors is coming up next, and they want to help you save money when it comes to windows and doors. They do that by going direct to the source to you. Talk to Dave today. Just go to klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 12 :
Putting reason into your afternoon drive. This is John Rush. And we are back. Rush to Reason, Debra’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate. Joe, what’s going on?
SPEAKER 15 :
John, regarding with the strip club and the workers being classified as employees, you know, for many, many years, I actually taught labor law. I’m kind of an expert on the Fair Labor Standards Act and whatnot. And the federal standards are so simple. And they go like one of the some of the tests are Are you free to set your own hours?
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 15 :
In the case of, you know, if you’re an exotic dancer.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 15 :
You can say, yeah, no, I don’t want to work tomorrow. I’ll come. I’ll see you Friday. Right.
SPEAKER 12 :
Right. Or in their case, Joe, I’m not working for you Friday. I’m working for the other club across town on Friday. So, no, I can’t be there.
SPEAKER 06 :
See, they can do this. I didn’t even know this.
SPEAKER 12 :
Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER 06 :
Joe, I mean, I know you did a lot of this working your way through college. Were you in a union? Were you an employee or a, you know, a contractor? Well, a contractor.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay. But that’s one of the other tests. Are you free to work for competitors? That’s another test. Correct. So, yes, an exotic dancer can work for two or three direct competitors.
SPEAKER 12 :
And a lot of times do, by the way.
SPEAKER 15 :
I’m sorry?
SPEAKER 12 :
And a lot of times do, by the way.
SPEAKER 15 :
They do. So this is such a bastardization thing. of the federal standards, well, it’s actually IRS. If you go to look at the IRS regulations, this determines whether you get paid as a 1099 or a W-2. And you’ll find these on the IRS website. Are you a 1099 or W-2 employee? Are you receiving health benefits? Are you receiving pension benefits, health benefits? Are you free to work for more than one employer during the week? Are you free to set your own hours? Do you provide your own tools? Well, you know, What the state of Colorado is doing, it’s the state, not the city, right?
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, so thank you, by the way. I’m glad you asked that, because this isn’t even the IRS coming in and trying to reset rules. This is the Denver Labor, that’s a division of the city auditor’s office, and they’re the ones that are actually going after these clubs. Quote, our office enforces wage theft laws for all industry and protects anyone performing work in Denver. Adult entertainment workers are no different, and we are pleased the court agrees, Denver Auditor Timothy O’Brien said in a statement on Monday. And as my point, Joe, is the reality here is most people are not looking at this the same way I am. In fact, I look at this as they’re probably getting as much support from the Christian right as they are anyone because the Christian right doesn’t like strip clubs in the first place. The problem, though, Joe, is, as you know, This sets a precedent that can go to a lot of other industries.
SPEAKER 15 :
Next thing you know, they’re going to say Uber driver our employees.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 15 :
And if you’re an Uber driver, by the way, you provide your own vehicle.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 15 :
So your employer is not providing you a tool. If you’re an Uber driver, you don’t want to work tomorrow, you don’t work tomorrow. You work when you want. If you only want to work for 90 minutes tomorrow, you work for 90 minutes tomorrow. What employee can tell his boss, hey, I’m only going to work 90 minutes tomorrow? No employee can do that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Quick question for both of you. I mean, is their goal twofold here? Number one, are they trying to find a way to get more money from these professions? And number two, are they then, the moment they make them into employees, are they trying to look for ways to become union leaders?
SPEAKER 12 :
unionization i don’t know about the union side i would say right now because in california that’s what they’re trying to do with drivers potentially i i think though across the board with the city of denver and joe correct me if i’m wrong but i think what the city of denver is looking at is hey if we can get one success under our belt we even get a certain amount of conservatives to buy into this i’ve got an entire list here that i’ll go into after we’re done joe with you of other businesses that could be affected and believe me it’s My feeling is they want a single win that they then can set a precedence with, and they’ll go after all sorts of businesses afterwards, because the city of Denver is greedy.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, John, I think you’re 100% correct. Plus, you know, they’re also, if you’re a socialist, it’s all about workers’ rights.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 15 :
A two-edged sword here. They’re greedy, and they want to push this socialist agenda forward. that they’re on the side of the worker. Of course, a lot of votes there, John.
SPEAKER 06 :
A lot of votes there. How does this, Joe, John, how does this get them more money? Okay, if you’re classified as an employee rather than a contractor.
SPEAKER 12 :
No, because when you’re an employee, you pay straight taxes based upon your wages, period. If you’re your own business, you have the ability to use expenses and other things to offset your income, therefore paying a lot less in tax when it’s all said and done.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay, I just wanted to put it out there.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s in a nutshell. Right, Joe?
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, you can deduct your travel costs to and from.
SPEAKER 12 :
A lot of things. Your vehicle, your travel costs, your clothing, your high heels in this case. You name it.
SPEAKER 15 :
Your makeup, your laser hair removal.
SPEAKER 12 :
Joe, I can go down the list of things they can write off. My high heels? Your high heels.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, John’s listening to all these things. He’s looking at me. That’s why I’m kind of worried.
SPEAKER 12 :
Joe, your wigs, your costumes, your makeup, your permanent makeup in some cases. I mean, these ladies get their lashes done. They get facials. I mean, all of that, Joe, can be expensed out. You go to be a regular worker, nada, you’re done. That’s all cut off. What about implants? Yeah, you can do anything along those lines. So they can write those off? Absolutely, they could. As a business coach, I would advise them to do so.
SPEAKER 15 :
And by the way, costumes include shoes.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 15 :
How much lady shoes cost?
SPEAKER 12 :
A lot.
SPEAKER 15 :
You know, easy to spend $100 on a pair of lady shoes.
SPEAKER 12 :
Or more. Or more.
SPEAKER 15 :
So when they talk about it, I realize there’s not a lot of costuming, but even the shoes they wear on stage.
SPEAKER 12 :
Absolutely. And again, people are laughing at me because, first of all, they’re probably thinking, John, how do you know so much about this? I have other stories along those lines as to how I know some of this from my coaching sides of things. And the reality is I know a lot more than most people think. And the reason why this is a big subject for me, Joe, is because this has nothing to do with the club’s or the performers, bartenders, and so on in the clubs. This is money extraction from the city of Denver, period. That’s it.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yep, and maybe pandering for some votes, John.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, from the Christian right, by the way.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, Christian right.
SPEAKER 12 :
So don’t be duped, Christians.
SPEAKER 15 :
I’m sorry?
SPEAKER 12 :
I said don’t be duped, Christians.
SPEAKER 15 :
They will be.
SPEAKER 12 :
I’m sorry, but they will be. No, you’re right. They will be. You’re correct. Yeah.
SPEAKER 15 :
Go ahead, Joe. No, that’s all I got. But, you know, this goes right in the face of IRS standards for are you a contractor or are you an employee.
SPEAKER 02 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 15 :
And this flies right straight in the face of that.
SPEAKER 12 :
You’re right. Joe, appreciate you. Hopefully they’re going to appeal this, of course. Hopefully they win. But, folks, believe me, you’re being used. I say you, those of you that are on the Christian right that hate strip clubs, you’re being used because the city of Denver looks at you and says, well, you know what, we can get a certain amount of you on our side and we’re not going to have very many repercussions because really we’re going after strip clubs and the performers inside, which nobody likes anyways. There’s a certain amount of people on both sides of the aisle that would just as soon not have those in their neighborhood. So at the end of the day, Denver’s picking on a particular industry that they know is an easy win that they can then take to other industries when they’re done here. Believe me when I say that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes, the camel’s nose under the tent.
SPEAKER 12 :
So, for example. Just get you in. Here’s a few other few. I’ve got a lot of other businesses that could be affected by this. Charlie and I kind of made a list of this last night, and then I actually used AI to come up with additional ones. But keep in mind, there’s a lot of other businesses, industries that operate very much the same way that a strip club would. In other words, the workers are contractors. They set their own hours, as Joe just said. They might even have their own clientele list. They might work for different competitors. On and on we go. Hair salons and barbers. Nail salons. Those are huge. Massage therapists. Certain people in the medical world, by the way, there are certain registered nurses and physician’s assistants that are contract laborers that will work at multiple offices. You’ve got the entire construction industry from flooring, tile, carpentry, carpet layers, roofers. The list goes on in the construction world. That’s a short list that goes on long after that. Certain bartenders, by the way, they will work special events. They’ll work different bars. They do different things, and they want to be a contract laborer because they set their own hours, what bar they want to work at, when they want to work at it, when the high times are so they can make more money, you get the drift. Now, we go into the skilled services, by the way, the skilled trades, electricians, plumbers, HVAC, welders, carpenters, general contractors, painters, I said roofers, handymen, carpenters. I can go down the list, by the way, Andy, just in the specialty end of things. And there’s so many other businesses outside of that that, again, this is the city of Denver looking at hundreds of different categories of businesses, meaning there’s thousands of businesses under those that they can go extract money from.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and John, look at their strategy here. Notice they didn’t pick any of those.
SPEAKER 12 :
Of course not, because they’d lose there.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. So they had to pick one that… That they know morally they can get everybody on board with. Right, right, right. Look, they’re targeting the church. Right. Bottom line.
SPEAKER 12 :
Folks, don’t be that dumb. They are.
SPEAKER 06 :
The left is targeting the church. That’s right. So they pick. Here you just listed off a dozen of these, right? You listed off a dozen of these careers. So they take the one that they know the church would object to. Okay, let’s go to the church with this. And that is our way to get at all the others. And if you in the church don’t feel used and insulted by this, you’re nuts.
SPEAKER 12 :
And again, folks, I’m probably, because I watch some news, I do see some articles and so on, not another single host in this entire state has looked at it the way I’m looking at it for you all. Not a single person. I don’t know that even hosts are even looking at this as any kind of an even mainline thing. To me, this is a huge story because it is an extraction of government against common businesses that they want to take as much money from and reclassify workers as much as they possibly can. And that’s what Denver wants to do.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 12 :
It’s a crime, by the way. It’s an absolute crime. And of course, they got a district in Denver district judge to agree with them because he’s a you know, he’s a bleeding heart liberal as well. Well, he’s simply their tool. Right. And I don’t know if it’s a he or she, but that judge is nothing more than a puppet for them.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER 12 :
I mean, this kind of stuff.
SPEAKER 06 :
The left works as one. They’re one big amoeba, man. They work as one team.
SPEAKER 12 :
You guys can tell that this has got me really fired up, and the reason is not because it’s the strip club itself, which, again, I’m one of those. I said this yesterday. If you want to go to a strip club, be my guest. It’s not for me, not my deal. I mean, if you want to go do it, you live your life, fine, whatever. I could really care less. Meet the zoning laws, do whatever. And if you’re somebody in a neighborhood that doesn’t want them, that’s your own battle. You do whatever you want to. My point with this is they’re using, conservative Christians to get something done. The city of Denver is. They’re doing it really in a backwards way, which, by the way, I’ll give them credit. They’re really smart in doing this. I’ll give credit where credit’s due. Whoever came up with this in the auditor’s office is pretty dang smart because they realize that, wait a minute, we can take a group of businesses… That we can get wide support right and left to go after these guys and not have hardly any backlash. Right. And they’re not getting any backlash because only I’m talking about it on air.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. But if the Christian right can’t see, and we are the Christian right. You and I are in the Christian right. Folks, if the Christian right cannot see that they chose the one contractor who’s in an industry that offends you on purpose. Correct. To work you. Correct. If you don’t see that, then you’re dumb. By the way, please, if you don’t see that, don’t ever go up and play blackjack in Blackhawk because you’re going to get killed. Okay? Because you don’t understand the game.
SPEAKER 12 :
Andy, you are a chump. Again, I am telling people straight up, and this is a non-story for a lot of news and even commentary stations like ours. This is really a non-issue for most people because they look at it and say, oh, it’s just strip club and strip club workers anyways. Who cares?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I don’t care about that.
SPEAKER 12 :
There’s no story there. That’s a non-story. To me, this is probably the biggest story of 2025, in my opinion, when it comes to the city of Denver. Even over homelessness. And the reason I say that is because the reason I say it’s even bigger than homelessness is because the far-reaching implications and all of the other businesses that could be adversely affected by this one ruling, it’s huge. Oh, yeah. Huge. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, the reach of this issue is going to be far beyond homelessness for Denver.
SPEAKER 12 :
Oh, big time. Oh, yeah, because the money extraction that will happen, and here’s the other thing, folks. If enough businesses just say, you know what? Screw you guys. I’m moving. I don’t need to be here anymore. What happens to Denver’s employee base if that ends up happening, Andy? Drops. It just drops, and that’s exactly what’s going to happen. Those just decide, you know, we’ll go somewhere else. We don’t need to do this here. We’ll go do business somewhere else. Right. Why would you stay in Denver knowing that you can’t have a solid contractor-based business and stay there?
SPEAKER 06 :
Right, and once again, you’re not just talking about strip clubs.
SPEAKER 12 :
No, no, no.
SPEAKER 06 :
You’re talking about all contractor-based businesses.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
Why not move just outside of Denver?
SPEAKER 12 :
Somebody just texted, why would anyone do business in Denver or even Colorado at all? You know, it’s getting to that point. That’s a great question. That’s a good question. I mean, sorry, but you’re correct. I can’t argue with you on that. It’s getting to that point where why would you?
SPEAKER 06 :
I have no idea. Honestly, right now, John, I don’t know why anybody, if they have a choice, I understand if they have no choice, but if they have a choice, why are you operating any business in the metro area? It’s becoming so anti-business.
SPEAKER 12 :
Because for most people, myself included, it’s what we’ve done. It’s a family business. You’ve done it forever. It’s your livelihood. You really don’t have a choice but to keep doing it, and so you do.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, but you’re not centered downtown.
SPEAKER 12 :
No. No, I’m not. Although for those that understand what I’m saying, even if you work in Denver, you’re still having to put up with this nonsense.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah. Which it is utter nonsense. My whole point with this article and the reason why I brought it up yesterday is I really – I want to make sure that – People really understand the underlying issue and what’s really going on here because they’re going to couch it as, oh, we’re just looking. You heard the quote. Oh, we’re just looking out for these strip club workers. No, they’re not. No. They could care less about that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Of course not.
SPEAKER 12 :
This is an extraction of cash from businesses with that model is what this is.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. This is nothing but trying to convert independent contractors into employees.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
For the government’s benefit.
SPEAKER 02 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s it.
SPEAKER 02 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 12 :
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SPEAKER 05 :
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SPEAKER 16 :
Call in to the KLZ studio line, 303-477-5600. Now, back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, we are back, Rush to Reason, Debra’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Charlie asked me something during the break that I think is really key to hone in on in this whole story about the City of Denver, their auditors and how they’re looking at strip clubs and so on. And what Charlie asked is, you know, what are the performers? You know, what are the bartenders and the other folks that work here think about this? And I can’t speak for every single one of them. And I’m sure you can find, you know, maybe a newbie that doesn’t quite understand how the owning your own business sides of things work and so on. But in general, I will tell you straight up. There is a lot of solid business individuals, ladies in this case, that fully understand exactly what they’re doing. They know how to make money. They know exactly how to work the business end of things. They’ve got great accountants, and they know full well what they need to do to take advantage of the situation that they’re in. And again, I know some of you might have differences of opinions on this, but the reality is a lot of them do that because they enjoy it. They make a lot of money doing it. They’re paying off debt or student loans or other things. No, the majority of them that do it are not there being trafficked and some of the things you might hear of otherwise. The majority of cases, they look at it as a business, a business only, and they make solid money doing it. And no, they don’t want to be reclassified as an employee.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, absolutely not. No, no, John, many years ago, I actually managed… At a tanning salon downtown. And we had a bunch of high-end strippers who came in. It was fascinating listening to them talk about why they do what they do.
SPEAKER 12 :
And it’s not what most people think, Andy.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, I mean, well, the number one reason, of course, is great pay.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, they were making a lot of money. Number two, though, freedom. There you go. Independent contractor, they can do a shift here, do a shift there, do what they want. I didn’t know they did shifts in different places, but you know what I mean. They were very free in what they could do and what they didn’t have to do. And they liked it, and they made an awful lot of money. And a lot of them also were very businesslike, and they were like, look, I am this far ahead on bills. I’m actually paid up several years in advance, and here’s how. And I’m setting myself up to go to college. Here’s why.
SPEAKER 02 :
Mm-hmm. Exactly.
SPEAKER 06 :
It was fascinating to hear that. But anyway, bottom line is that no, they don’t want to be an employee. They want to be their own boss.
SPEAKER 12 :
And I had somebody just text a moment ago that said, stop the fear mongering. Nobody’s leaving. Millionaires aren’t going to leave and so on. That is a foolish statement through and through. You have no clue what you’re talking about. You haven’t even looked at any of the data. You can’t support that statement. Here’s another text message that just came in. I know of many people have sold their businesses in Colorado in the last five years and started over somewhere else. So sorry, person that says that we’re fear mongering. There’s a text message coming back in countering what you just said, which is, by the way, one of the most foolish statements I’ve ever heard.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, John, it goes right against reason. I mean, how many stories have been put out about the occupancy rate in those high-rises downtown? Denver is hemorrhaging businesses.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 06 :
It is, and it’s not good.
SPEAKER 12 :
I just got this message, by the way. Thank you, by the way, for all the text messages. I appreciate it. This is coming from another individual named John. Thank you for bringing the strip club independent contractor story up on your show. I never would have understood it unless you explained it the way that you did. I read some stories about it and after your show yesterday, and still I don’t understand it all. And, again, I think we’ve done a better job even today of explaining it a little further than what I did yesterday. And, again, folks, I want to make sure that I’m reiterating this so everybody is crystal clear on this. This has absolutely nothing— absolutely nothing to do with the fact that these are strip clubs and the dancers inside. This happens to be because they’re strip clubs and they can get bipartisan support for going after strip clubs. That’s what this is about.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Bottom line is, if there are 20 industries, 20, let’s put it this way, job areas that are independent contractors right now and the city wants them to be made into employees, notice how they picked the only one that the right would not support. That’s right. I mean, very, very smart strategists. They really are.
SPEAKER 12 :
Somebody also just said really quick that there are other stations nationwide that are on a campaign advertising that all their hosts are human and they won’t play AI music. Has KLZ thought about making a point that there is no AI and it’s all human? Just the thought. I don’t know, Charlie. We really haven’t thought about that probably. I mean, you already know from what you hear in the stand with – Mr. Crawford, Don Crawford Sr., the owner, that he’s pretty much against AI, and I don’t fear being replaced by AI anytime soon. We probably could do a better job of highlighting the fact that yet we are all live and real people, and no, I am not AI-generated at all. I’m not sure AI could replace me.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, I don’t think so.
SPEAKER 12 :
I’m too much of a weirdo. I don’t think it can replace me.
SPEAKER 06 :
You know why? It would be too nice.
SPEAKER 12 :
We need that mean edge. So the person that said stop the fear monitoring just texted back, I have and haven’t seen whole business sectors leave. No, not whole business. Well, you know what? There actually have been whole business sectors leaving. Have you not looked at oil and gas lately, sir?
SPEAKER 06 :
How many oil companies are in Denver now versus what were in Denver 15 years ago?
SPEAKER 12 :
Folks. A lot less. Oh. A lot less. Virtually all are gone. Yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
I mean, it’s incredible.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yes. Yes. And so, again, you need to go do more homework.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 12 :
And look at some of the sectors that have been impacted by the Democrat policies of Colorado and then get back to me because you’re sorely mistaken in what you’re telling me that entire sectors haven’t left because, yes, they have.
SPEAKER 06 :
John, the vacancy rate downtown, did that just happen?
SPEAKER 12 :
No, Andy, it’s been going on. It’s an ongoing problem.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right, but I mean, how does that happen if businesses aren’t leaving?
SPEAKER 12 :
It doesn’t, Andy. It’s the opposite.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, it doesn’t make any sense.
SPEAKER 12 :
So, again, whoever’s saying this, and I respect you, by the way. I respect your opinion. You’re misguided, and you’re somehow being clouded in your opinion because you’re not looking at the same things that I’m looking at. And I’m in the business sector. I look at this stuff daily. I coach businesses. So no offense. I’m in this knee-deep every single day. You’re not.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, maybe that person is tied into a couple sectors that haven’t moved yet. For good reason. I mean, there are some sectors where Denver is just the ideal place to be.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right. I just got another text message, and I think I can share this. I’m not getting names out, so this one’s generic. I’m a millionaire. I sold my business six years ago in Colorado, electrical contracting. I still have shops in nine locations. Other states, I thank God every day to be done doing business in Colorado. So again, sir, that said that businesses aren’t leaving. I just gave you an example of somebody that did that still has nine other shops in other states around the country outside of Colorado. Again, sir, you’re sorely mistaken. And I’m getting text message after text message disproving your thought process.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. PDC up and moved to Texas. Chevron, they had their offices here. They’re moving to Texas. I mean, come on, John. It’s happening throughout the industries.
SPEAKER 12 :
And manufacturing as well.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 12 :
Phillips 66 at one time, as you guys all know, bought the entire storage tech campus that was up on top of the hill in Louisville. That’s now going to be done completely different. At one time, they were going to build an entire Phillips 66 tech building. center and really get things going up there but when we started going down the path of being anti-oil guess what they did they left they didn’t do it yeah and that that thing sat empty now for the past decade plus it’s just now finally starting to get developed into something else a decade later so don’t tell me that it had that we haven’t been affected by what’s happening in oil and gas yeah by the way other things by the way i’m going to do a terrible thing right now and if you want to answer after the break that’s okay i’m going to make you the mayor of denver okay
SPEAKER 06 :
What would you do to change things to bring them back?
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, we can do that. We’ll talk about that. Let’s do this. Golden Eagle coming up next. Golden Eagle Financial. Al did a great interview of late. Don’t forget, you can listen to Al tomorrow between 2 and 2.30 right here on KLZ. In the meantime, find Al at klzradio.com.
SPEAKER 04 :
This is TJ with KLZ Radio. And once again, we have Al Smith with us from Golden Eagle Financial. And Al, we’re coming up on the end of the year, and I figure there’s probably quite a few things that a retirement planner has to do to prepare for the new year, yes? Yes.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, there are a couple of things that have a 31st deadline that we talk to some of our clients about. If people are thinking about converting part of their traditional IRA to Roth, That needs to be done before December 31st. And we don’t usually wait until the last week in December because the financial companies get really busy. So it’s a good idea to address that in November. And usually by then people have a pretty good idea how much money they have earned and we can guesstimate their tax bracket.
SPEAKER 04 :
So you’re just basically helping them reach out to figure out what sort of distribution they should get from an investment.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, not so much distribution, but if they’re younger people, they may have a longer term strategy to convert traditional IRA to Roth. And that will add income to their income tax they pay each year. And we usually wait till near the end of the year because by then people know what tax bracket they will be in. But it has to be done before December 31st.
SPEAKER 04 :
Excellent. And that’s why we trust you, Al. How can people get in touch with you if they want to start their retirement planning adventure with you?
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s a good way to describe it as an adventure. You can reach me at 303-744-1128. And if you’re driving when you hear this, contact KLZ and they’ll put me in contact with you. All right. Thanks for joining us today, Al. Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER 16 :
Listen online. KLZradio.com. Back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, so this texter, Andy, is telling me that we need a lot more business examples to actually prove that there’s actually a trend. And one of my answers back was, you know, frankly, there’s a lot of people, because I’m getting text messages from folks as well, that would actually leave if they could, but they find themselves very much in a situation like myself where you’ve owned a business. I’ve been in business for myself in Colorado for the past 40-plus years, and the reality is when you’ve done it that long, it’s hard to just pick up and go someplace else. If I could, I would. Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, John, your business is Colorado business.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
So, I mean, that would be pretty hard to do. Look, the bottom line is simply this. Instead of just looking at one industry or another, look at the occupancy rate downtown.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s one area to look at. Case closed. And that’s for Denver. And, folks, again, I can go back to even some of the surrounding areas where you look at a company like Magpul that pulled out of Colorado years ago because of the gun laws. And, folks, I can keep going. There’s more business examples of either businesses that didn’t come here before for one reason or another or those that have left there. Bottom line is, and I keep talking about this, Colorado has been a huge destination for people to move to. Denver was at one of the top of the list of cities. I just talked before Thanksgiving, the week before Thanksgiving, on how Denver has dropped completely off that list. We are no longer on the list of places to move to. We’re actually the opposite. We are a city now, in the case of Denver, that’s becoming the city to leave, not to move to. Right.
SPEAKER 06 :
Which is remarkable. John, if you told people that it would be that way, if you said that 15 years ago, they’d say you’re out of your mind.
SPEAKER 12 :
But that’s how it is. So, again, go do some more research. I encourage you. Go look some things up on your own, and you’ll understand some of the trends that I’m talking about. Yes, there are going to be some sectors where things actually do grow. But let me tell you what. As far as a state that encourages development and bringing new businesses in, we’re not it, folks. We are not it. The city of Denver definitely is not that. It is actually the opposite. Andy asked me a moment ago, if I was mayor of Denver, what would I do?
SPEAKER 06 :
What would you do?
SPEAKER 12 :
Number one thing you’ve got to do is fix homelessness. Because no business, no person wants to move into an area where there’s rampant homelessness because they know that their business won’t survive in those conditions. So number one, you can’t even encourage business development until you fix homelessness. Yep. So number one, Andy, that’d be the first thing I would clean up.
SPEAKER 06 :
Number two, add lanes.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s Colorado, not Denver, but yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, but look, Broadway going downtown.
SPEAKER 12 :
Oh, yeah, that’s ridiculous.
SPEAKER 06 :
They actually subtracted a lane going each way so they could make more bike lanes. You’re correct. And now it is a total hornet’s nest.
SPEAKER 02 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
Trying to get in and out of there. It’s a disaster. When you’re talking about these businesses that are locating downtown, they want easy access. And it’s been taken away. And I would say, look, I would go to the governor and I would go to the mayor and I’d say, we need more lanes. We’ve got to loosen up transportation and driving around Colorado and around Denver.
SPEAKER 12 :
The other thing that I know for a fact is I know some Denver policemen, they will tell you that they know where all of the hotspots are for Section 8 housing, where the majority of their calls come in for violent crime. things along those lines. Those are things also that need cleaned up inside of Denver. When the police department itself knows these things are going on, why is it so hard for mayor and city council to understand these things? Ken and Bertha, you’re next.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, you know, guys, I just wanted to let you know one thing, because you’re doing a great job on this. I disagree with the people disagreeing with you, because I know you’re speaking facts. But I want to add something that you’re missing. Like when that poll left, I worked at the machine shop industry. Magpul only wanted parts delivered by truck. No UPS, no FedEx, no anything else to cut their costs. So when they left, all the industries up and down Lafayette and Louisville Some of them went out of business.
SPEAKER 12 :
Great point, Ken. By the way, thank you. Yes, thank you for the reminder. I stand corrected because the ancillary businesses that are affected by those businesses either not coming here or like in Phillips 66 case up in Louisville, never developing what they actually bought, all of those things happening can have a snowball effect.
SPEAKER 06 :
Ken, that’s a fantastic example. Let me give you one more. When all the oil and gas companies were pulling out of downtown Denver, the restaurants have had to cut back way back. A lot of them are out of business. Go ahead, Ken.
SPEAKER 09 :
Okay, and then one more thing then to add to this, that a lot of those people in the oil and gas industry and in the machine shop industry ended up with jobs that paid less.
SPEAKER 12 :
Good point. Great point. So in the point you’re making, Ken, is this particular individual that’s disagreeing with us and might be looking at some of the data, frankly, isn’t looking at the real data. Because while what you’re saying is a worker may not be out of a job right now, but because of, in this case, Magpul pulling out, they’re not making the money they once were. So they’re not going to show up as somebody unemployed or, in this case, a business that is completely left, but they’re not making the money they once were either.
SPEAKER 09 :
And that’s so true. And Magpul did not make even one order to Colorado once they left.
SPEAKER 12 :
Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s right. Unless you were willing to drive it there.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct. Correct. No, and by the way, that’s a great example. And, you know, I’m using the Phillips 66 example, ConocoPhillips up in the Louisville area where that entire upper hill, I can’t remember how many acres are up there, but at one time, you know, Storage Tech employed, I don’t know, 3,500, 4,000 people. And when they left, that was a huge, huge impact to that whole Louisville Valley. And of course, the promise of ConocoPhillips coming back was a huge plug back in the day because they thought it would bring a lot of those jobs and things back. In reality, Ken, is It never happened because once Phillips Conoco looked at what the state of Colorado was doing with oil and gas, why would you build a campus here?
SPEAKER 09 :
And that’s so true. People wonder why people are moving from Colorado. Well, because they have to. It’s not just because they’re smart and they see better chances elsewhere. They have to.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 09 :
No, yeah, they have no choice. Yeah, exactly. And they’re trying to take, you know, weapons from us. You know that.
SPEAKER 11 :
Right. That’s right.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s just down the road. When they get everybody out that’s conservative, because I’ve heard tell the reason you do that, like we had on the ballot, do you want everybody that makes more than $300,000 to pay for all your stuff? Well, sure, they voted yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
that are in that tax bracket leave the state. And so all that’s left are the liberals. And so then the state turns so blue, it’s no longer purple.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct. Correct. And again, this, by the way, doesn’t happen overnight. People don’t just pick up and leave tomorrow, although I’m getting lots of text messages in from people that have actually done this in the past. a decade or less. So in some cases, Ken, they can do it pretty quickly. In other cases, there just becomes this tipping point. There’s a book about this, by the way. There’s a tipping point whereby people just finally get so fed up. There’s one last little thing. And by the way, it doesn’t have to be something big. It could be something as simple as I’m paying an extra $300 in property tax now that I wasn’t before I’m leaving. Those are the things that set people off.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, you know, a lot of that, a lot of people, a lot of businesses, like you said, restaurants you shared the other day, their margin is minimal.
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, yeah, it’s so tight it’s ridiculous. That’s absolutely right.
SPEAKER 09 :
So, you know, I think part of what’s gone on since I’ve been in Colorado, moved in in 96, and yes, we had what they called a rhino Republican governor then, but the state ideology has changed so dramatically. Yeah. And people just don’t realize it. You know, they can put stupid stuff past us like That person that was in our Colorado Congress when said, well, once they use up a clip for a gun, they’ll throw it away. I mean, you can’t be that stupid and be making legislation.
SPEAKER 12 :
But they are.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes. And that’s what they’re counting on. You know, when you see AOC and Omar and all them in there, they got voted in because the educational system is debunked. So that’s where we’re headed. We’re going to have an AOC. We’re going to have Omar unless, you know. Unless something changes.
SPEAKER 12 :
No, Ken, your prediction is right on that. Unless he makes some big changes, you’re exactly right.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah. So, you know, you guys just got to keep on trucking. We’ll do it. You know, maybe you’ll slow it down. We’ll do our best.
SPEAKER 12 :
Maybe we will. Ken, I appreciate it. And lots of text messages coming in, by the way, backing up what Ken just said, because the other thing that people do forget is when a particular business, in the case of Magpul, Whether they’re a good employer, bad employer, it doesn’t make any difference. The ancillary things, in Ken’s case, the machine shop work that comes out of something along those lines, when they leave, the hole that is left behind is big. Yes, gradually that fills back in, but in Ken’s case, it fills back in with lesser-waged workers when it’s all said and done, meaning that there’s not that same amount of money going back into the economy that there once was. Right.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. These businesses don’t operate in a vacuum.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
And so when you see the, let’s face it, the vacancy rate go up, up, up downtown with these skyscrapers, that’s affecting everybody, John.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. So again, folks, yep, go look at your data as close as you possibly can. You know, what happens moving forward to Ken’s point? Will we end up with our own, you know, AOC? Frankly, we kind of have in some ways already, maybe not quite as bad as what AOC is, although we’ve got some real loons running around, not only Denver and City Council and some of the other city councils that are out there, but even statewide. Believe me, we’ve got some of our own loons, not on a national basis like AOC, but trust me, we’ve got our own set of loons to deal with here in Colorado. All right, let’s do this. Cub Creek heating and air conditioning is up next. And again, if you’ve got any issues at all when it comes to your furnace, things aren’t blowing as warm as they should, you just don’t feel like it’s as efficient as it once was, give Cub Creek a call today. You can make an appointment online. Just find Cub Creek by going to klzradio.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
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SPEAKER 16 :
This isn’t rage radio. This is real, relatable radio. Back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right. And I, man, this particular hour went in a direction that I really wasn’t planning on it going. I’m glad it did because it ended up being a really great topic. We started off talking about the city auditor, Denver city auditor, and the fact that they won a case against some of the Denver strip clubs and reclassifying workers as employees versus contract labor. That then dovetailed into, you know, businesses leaving in general and the fact that we have a unfriendly business climate when it comes to Colorado. And, you know, let me correct myself there. We have a friendly business climate depending upon your business.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 12 :
If you’re green energy, for example, and you’re wasting taxpayer dollars, you’ll be welcomed with opened arms.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER 12 :
If you’re an oil and gas company, you’re getting the door shut on you. Yeah. So let me be careful when I say that. So even some of you that might go find some articles where there might be some areas of growth in Colorado, yeah, typically that’s going to be something that is either federally subsidized, state subsidized, they’re working in some sort of green energy, could be some sort of maybe medical, things involving insurance, which, by the way, we’re getting duped on as we speak. I mean, the reality is, yes, you might find some growth in Colorado among liberal sectors, but you’re not going to find it across the board, folks. It’s not going to be there.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, no, no, no, absolutely not.
SPEAKER 12 :
So, again, be careful of the data that you read and delve into exactly what’s being said and then go do some research like I just said. In other words, are these positive tax dollars when it’s all said and done? Because, by the way, if they’re subsidized, they’re not positive dollars coming into the state of Colorado. It’s borrowed money federally or even statewide that’s coming into Colorado, not one and the same. That’s not true growth is my point. That’s taxpayer growth coming off of my dime and your dime that we’re borrowing.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. All that is is redistributing money.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 06 :
That’s already come in through taxes.
SPEAKER 12 :
That is not growth by any stretch of the imagination, folks. So be careful when you look at some of this quote unquote growth that a Colorado Sun or a Governor Polis or somebody like that will actually put out because at the end of the day, it’s not true growth. That’s my point. I agree. So what Joe has always said, you can manipulate the data to basically make it say whatever you want to.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right.
SPEAKER 12 :
Bottom line is, again, I coach businesses. I know the climate. I know what’s going on in Colorado. We don’t have a friendly climate. We actually have the opposite when it comes to that. In a lot of ways, Colorado is very unfriendly to certain types of businesses. And at the end of the day, they will do everything they possibly can to make sure that you don’t operate here.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, they will.
SPEAKER 12 :
And basically, you know, think about this. Look what they’re doing to the farmers and ranchers of Colorado. Do you think they’re friendly to farmers and ranchers with what they’ve done with even the reintroduction of wolves, which, by the way, was all done by Governor Polis’s husband? Yes, by his husband, that knucklehead. At the end of the day, they are very unfriendly to ranchers and farmers in Colorado. If they had their way, trust me, mark my words in this, they wouldn’t exist.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, because that just jumps the cost on ranchers and farmers.
SPEAKER 12 :
Correct. Yeah. It’s all about cost. And again, I’m running out of breath here because this stuff actually, it becomes so taxing that when you start going through these things and talking about it the way that we are, it really becomes exhausting because what we’re trying to do is fight an uphill battle against the left constantly.
SPEAKER 06 :
I know.
SPEAKER 12 :
It’s all we’re doing constantly, Andy.
SPEAKER 06 :
It’s hard being a conservative in Colorado. It’s awful.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, because all we do is continually fight uphill, uphill, uphill, and then on our side have very little strategy in how to do so. All right, we’re going to talk some more strategy and things when we come back with Jim Paff from the Conservative Caucus. Don’t go anywhere. Hour 3 is next. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
