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This episode covers the ongoing tension in Minneapolis following another deadly shooting and the various reactions from political leaders and government officials. We dive deep into the implications of these actions, exploring discussions from both state and federal representatives. The episode further explores Iran’s domestic strife as they contend with severe unrest and international pressure. Joining us to shed light on these issues are notable personalities like Congressman Brad Knott and State Representative Walter Hudson.
SPEAKER 01 :
from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and soundbites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Sitting in for Tony is today’s host, Jody Heiss.
SPEAKER 14 :
Nobody in the White House, including President Trump, wants to see people getting hurt or killed in America’s streets. This includes Renee Goode, Alex Preti, the brave men and women of federal law enforcement, and the many Americans who have been victimized at the hands of illegal alien criminals. The administration is reviewing everything with respect to the shooting, and we will let that investigation play out.
SPEAKER 11 :
That was White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt earlier today commenting on the situation in Minneapolis following another deadly shooting. Welcome to this January 26th edition of Washington Watch. I’m Jody Heiss, Senior Fellow here at the Family Research Council. An honor to be sitting in today for Tony and I certainly hope you and your family are both safe and warm following the storms that ravaged our country over the weekend. All right, coming up on this edition, Democratic senators are threatening to oppose legislation that’s needed to avoid another government shutdown. All this is following Saturday’s deadly shooting in Minneapolis by a federal agent. North Carolina Congressman Brad Knott will be joining me in just a little while to discuss the latest. And while so much attention is now on the protests and the ICE operations that are taking place in Minneapolis, what about the fraud investigations that started this whole thing? Well, Minnesota State Representative Walter Hudson will be joining me a little bit later to discuss that. And while Democrats have been all in in their support for anti-ICE protests, what about the protests in Iran, where the death toll there could be literally in the tens of thousands?
SPEAKER 02 :
We may not know the exact number because of the internet blackout, but by any plausible estimate, this is the worst mass murder in the contemporary history of Iran. Our beautiful country has become a cemetery in which the hopes of our youth are buried.
SPEAKER 11 :
That was former United Nations prosecutor Payama Kavan speaking at last Friday’s UN Human Rights Council meeting in Geneva. And we’ll be having the latest about that when I talk with Dr. Hormoz Shariat a little bit later in the program. And then in local news, a county council in Maryland has ended They have ended their long-standing tradition of citing the Lord’s Prayer before meetings after they determined that the cost was too high to fight against the efforts of an anti-religious group.
SPEAKER 10 :
Neither I nor the council are happy with this set of circumstances before us and we are not a council that shies away from a challenge simply because litigation is threatened. But when legal counsel is clear about the probable outcome, when the financial risk to our citizens is so substantial, we have a responsibility to weigh fiscal stewardship against our desire to preserve a tradition we’ve honored for so many years.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, that was with Comico County Council President John Cannon last week. And we’ll be discussing this whole situation with David Cortman from Alliance Defending Freedom, who has defended the freedom to pray at public meetings. And then also on today’s program, we’ll share an interview that Tony had over the weekend with Louisiana’s Solicitor General regarding the Ten Commandments in the classrooms in that great state. So as always, we’ve got a lot of… Packed information coming your way in the next hour. You don’t want to miss any of it, but if by chance you do, I want to encourage you to check out the website TonyPerkins.com. You can not only get this if you missed it, but many past programs as well as tons of resources available there for you as well. All right. Democratic senators are now threatening to oppose legislation that’s needed to avoid another government shutdown following another deadly shooting that took place in Minnesota by a federal agent. And Saturday’s shooting of Alex Pretty is now the second deadly encounter involving federal agents in Minneapolis this month. And it comes as anti-ice protests continue. And as Minnesota’s governor, Tim Walz, is now deploying the National Guard to support local authorities. So what in the world is it going to take to keep Minneapolis from becoming a powder keg? Well, joining me now to discuss this and more It’s Congressman Brad Nott. He serves on several House committees, including the Judiciary Committee, as well as Homeland Security. He represents the 13th Congressional District of the great state of North Carolina. He also served as a federal prosecutor before going to Congress. Congressman Nott, welcome back to Washington Watch. Great to see you.
SPEAKER 09 :
Hey, Jody. Thank you so much. It’s great to be here.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, listen, the situation there in Minneapolis and Minnesota as a whole obviously is continuing to escalate. And now in the midst of all that, Democrats are steering us toward another potential government shutdown all over the funding of ICE issue. What are your thoughts on all of this?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, you know, it’s one of those things, Joey, unfortunately, the entire Democratic Party has been mobilized for a few primary purposes. First, it’s to defend open-ended migration. They are the party of mass migration. Their party cannot survive without mass migration. And they are trying to stop the president and his efforts to enforce existing immigration law. and then secondly every member of that party has united in in so far as they are trying to stop president trump at every turn even when what president trump is doing has 80 to 20 percent support amongst the country removing illegal aliens who are dangerous that is a tremendously common sense and popular issue but the democrats especially in deep blue areas like minneapolis st paul they’re united in trying to obstruct the president no matter what the issue is and when you combine those two realities it’s no surprise that they’re going to go to the mat and try to deny ice and hs excuse me homeland security the funding they need to operate and it’s very very concerning to me and it’s very concerning to the country yeah and on top of all that the concern of a potential government shutdown all over again do you think that’s where we’re headed i don’t know that we can avoid it insofar as the again the democratic party is top to bottom united in this front and you know many minnesota and minneapolis specifically has become a powder keg unfortunately and uh in terms of of ways to avoid it you ask the question what would it take to prevent this just do not obstruct federal law enforcement from doing their jobs from enforcing the law and we would have none of these problems but the democrats are united in inflaming the situation they are dragging this out they are obstructing federal law enforcement in terms of immigration enforcement and they’re doing so for political reasons and when politics is your barometer shutting the government down is a very easy decision to make and that’s where they’re headed
SPEAKER 11 :
Wow. And while all this is happening, you have kind of on the other side of the coin now, Governor Tim Wallace has activated the National Guard, something that, quite frankly, I never anticipated he would do. So what’s your reaction to that? And what kind of impact do you think the National Guard would have on the ground there? Is this a good thing?
SPEAKER 09 :
Shame on Tim Walz. He and Keith Ellison and Mayor Frey are the ones that have really instigated this. They’ve dumped gasoline all over the fire around their state. Rather than tell people to essentially stay home, do not inflame the situation. If you want to protest, do not do so by obstructing federal law enforcement. He has ordered his own local law enforcement not to assist which is unheard of, that’s unprecedented. So he and Keith Ellison have really made the decision to inflame the situation and to endanger federal law enforcement. And this activation, I’m curious as to why it’s happening. Is he doing it to try to obstruct? like he has been advocating for recently? Is he doing it to try to keep the peace? Because if he’s trying to do this in a way that will keep the peace, I wish he would use his microphone to encourage all people in Minnesota to assist federal law enforcement in getting rid of these dangerous illegal aliens. But he hasn’t done that so far, so we’ll see what happens.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, good point. I haven’t even thought of this as potentially being used for further obstruction. My assumption was that this was for peace. So you bring up an excellent point there that we’ll be watching to see how the National Guard is used there. And now we have a federal judge is considering a pause to the Trump administration’s immigration crackdown there in Minnesota. So what are your thoughts on this? Could we see a suspension perhaps in the administration’s surge in agents there?
SPEAKER 09 :
Now, it’s completely in line with precedent and their constitutional authorities. Of course, the far left has opposed, again, the president every step, whether it’s citizens, whether it’s elected officials locally, elected officials in Washington, and unfortunately, people on the judiciary as well. But the president has won time and again as he appeals these far left rulings. And again, we’re talking about enforcing existing law. what the Minnesota government under Tim Walz has refused to do. This is not controversial at all. So if the judge does issue a cease and desist or a stop order, it’ll be overturned. It’ll just be one more hurdle that the president is having to clear.
SPEAKER 11 :
Very interesting. I wish we could go on. There’s so many questions I have for you on this, but if we can, let’s switch gears because I mentioned this coming into our segment here. One of the things that lit the fuse for all of this is the investigation into widespread fraud in Minnesota where estimates were up to some $9 billion in taxpayer funds that in essence have been stolen. So can you tell us where we are In that investigation, are we going to be seeing more arrests anytime soon, do you think?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, Jody, it’s very interesting. You look at the incentive structures at play here. Do you think that Keith Ellison would prefer that there be chaos and distraction at the federal level with this immigration enforcement? Or do you think he would prefer a quiet scene working with the president? Of course, he is incentivized on his own calculus to stir up trouble, to cause a ruckus, to disrupt the federal arm, because it was established beyond any question that Keith Ellison was integral into this Somalian fraud operation. There were recordings, there was testimony. He essentially guaranteed legal cover for illegal activity. There was recording numerous times where he said, essentially, If I don’t cover you, the money will stop. And it’s an unbelievable scheme that we’ve seen here. You have a group of people from Somalia that have stolen what equates to essentially 100% of the entire Somalian GDP from the American taxpayer.
SPEAKER 11 :
Unbelievable.
SPEAKER 09 :
Outrageous.
SPEAKER 11 :
Outrageous. All right, we’ve got just a little over a minute left, and I just got to get your reaction to the church protesters that took place. There have been three people who have been arrested so far, yet an appeals court has rejected the Justice Department’s push to charge others in that, including former CNN anchor Don Lemon. As a former federal prosecutor yourself and now a member of the House Judiciary, are we going to see more arrests even potentially still? Lennon may not be out of the woods.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, the investigation needs to continue, and if there was a coordinated effort to disrupt people’s rights, there need to be charges. But what’s glaring here is the total absence of local law enforcement. If you attack the right or something associated with the right, the local law enforcement gives you a blank check and it’s disgraceful.
SPEAKER 11 :
Wow. Well, it is disgraceful. I’ll tell you, there’s just absolutely so much happening just in Minnesota alone. I’ll tell you, but you’ve got your hands full in Congress. You’ve got so much going on. North Carolina Congressman Brad Knott, it is always an honor to have you joining us here on Washington Watch. We deeply appreciate it. And thank you for joining us and giving your input.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you, Jody. Take care.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, you too. All right, friends, after the break, we’re going to take a deeper dive into this whole fraud investigation in Minnesota. State Representative Walter Hudson, who’s on the Fraud Prevention and State Agency Oversight Committee in Minnesota, he will be joining me. He’s a part of the House of Representatives there. So don’t go away. We’ll be back right after this.
SPEAKER 12 :
We have state leaders that want to keep the deadly drugs out of their states. Maybe if these abortion pills were coming by boat, the administration would change its tactics. It’s time to respect the rights of the states, and it’s time to end death by mail.
SPEAKER 13 :
Family Research Council President Tony Perkins, alongside Senator Lindsey Graham, led a press conference on Capitol Hill urging the Trump administration to end the Biden era policies that have allowed dangerous abortion drugs to be shipped across state lines. They were joined by state attorneys general, pro-life advocates and multiple Republican congressmen.
SPEAKER 08 :
There are more abortions today in the United States than when Roe versus Wade was the law of the land. And why is that? It’s because of the chemical abortion drug, Mifeprestone. Nearly 70% of the abortions that are committed in the United States today are committed because of Mifeprestone.
SPEAKER 05 :
The federal government is allowing a chemical abortion pill to be sent through the mail that wipes out every state unborn protection law in the land.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s harder to ship alcohol in this country than it is to ship the abortion pill.
SPEAKER 07 :
And that should never be the case. This is a drug that takes the life of every child. So there is always a death that’s involved in this drug, but is also incredibly dangerous for the mom as well. We think that we should require a doctor to be able to get access to this drug.
SPEAKER 16 :
As a doctor, I think it’s essential that there be human contact before the pill is prescribed.
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s not about a national abortion ban. It’s about validating Dobbs and preventing other states from nullifying the legislative policy choices that have been made by our states and facilitating the illegal, unethical, and dangerous drug trafficking of abortion pills into our states without any medical oversight whatsoever.
SPEAKER 05 :
We can simply fix this if we have the courage to do it. So what are all of us telling the administration? You’ve been a great pro-life president, Mr. President. It’s now time to deal with this issue.
SPEAKER 08 :
We want to protect life, and we want to give voice to the American people and their right to protect life state by state, city by city, and yes, here in the United States Congress. That’s what this fight is about.
SPEAKER 13 :
Let your voice be heard. Text LIFE to 67742. Sign the petition. Tell the Trump administration to act.
SPEAKER 18 :
Looking for a trusted source of news that shares your Christian values? Turn to The Washington Stand, your ultimate destination for informed, faith-centered reporting. Our dedicated team goes beyond the headlines, delivering stories that matter most to believers. From breaking events to cultural insights, we provide clear, compassionate coverage through a biblical lens. Discover news you can trust at the Washington Stand, where faith and facts meet every day.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, good afternoon and welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m your host today, Jody Heiss, an honor to be filling in for Tony Perkins. And as always, thank you so much for joining us today. All right, much of the attention over the weekend has been on the latest deadly shootings in Minneapolis and the ongoing anti-ICE protests that are taking place there. But the problems of Minneapolis go beyond that. As serious as that is, The problems go beyond that. In recent weeks, in fact, Democrats have largely tried to shift the attention to immigration and away from the rampant fraud that’s taken place over decades there, at least over the past decade. But Republicans certainly have not forgotten. And at the state level, that’s true. Also at the federal level. And joining me now with the latest of the fraud investigation that’s underway in Minnesota is State Representative Walter Hudson. He serves on the Fraud Prevention and State Agency Oversight Committee in the Minnesota House of Representatives. He represents District 30A. in the northwestern Twin Cities metropolitan area. Representative Hudson, welcome to Washington Watch. It’s an honor to have you. It’s great to be here, Jody. All right, so let’s start. What can you tell us about where things are as it relates to the ongoing fraud investigation?
SPEAKER 20 :
Well, I think you framed the conundrum pretty well at the start, which is that we had our moment to shine a national spotlight of attention on this problem that those of us who live in this state have known about for many, many years have been battling to get this kind of attention on so that we can start to actually solve it. And that happened on January 7th at the House Oversight Committee in D.C. And the same day while we were having that hearing is when the shooting of Renee Good happened. And as soon as that happened, it kind of took the oxygen out of the air of the conversation about fraud. And, of course, we saw what happened over the weekend, which has continued that trajectory. But there is a definite link, obviously, between these two issues. And when you have an overwhelming majority of the people who are engaged in this fraud that is – taking away taxpayer dollars from both the federal and state government coming from one community, which is the Somali community, obviously we have some immigration policy problems. And so I’m confident that the Trump administration is going to continue to follow through, even as they have to walk and chew gum with both the ICE insurgency currently happening in our state and dealing with the fraud, that they’ll be able to handle both of those issues well.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, it’s an incredibly complicated situation with so many plates spinning right now. And as you mentioned, you testified earlier this month before the House Oversight Committee, which I served on previously in my time in Congress. Thank you for taking time to serve and to testify there. But what are some of the current flaws in the system that you think may have contributed to fraud not being detected earlier?
SPEAKER 20 :
Well, what you and I would call flaws, I think the people who came up with them would call features rather than books. Because there’s easy access, right? You can sign up easily, minimal verification. We pay you before we verify that you’re doing what you say you’re doing. There’s minimal oversight in terms of checking up on spaces physically. I think the Nick Shirley videos have demonstrated that pretty effectively to the American public. And when efforts have been made, because they have. despite the fact that we have the Wall’s administration and Minnesota Democrats in charge of the state right now, within the state agencies themselves, there are good faith actors who are employed and they’ve raised these red flags and been met with resistance and allegedly extraordinary amounts of retaliation for having the audacity to ask the wrong questions. And so that’s kind of how things work in a nutshell. The way I explain to my 12 year old is here in Minnesota, we hand you a cartoon bag of cash and wave at you as we assume you’re going to go house the homeless with it.
SPEAKER 11 :
Incredible. Well, you’re doing an incredible job in the legislature there in Minnesota, but also you’re getting a good bit of a taste of what it’s like in D.C., and there are some Republican members of the U.S. Senate Committee, specifically the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions, also known as HELP, but they’ve announced that they want to launch a task force aimed at rooting out fraudsters who are abusing What’s your thoughts on that? Does it need to be on the federal level?
SPEAKER 20 :
Oh, absolutely. Of course it does. And it’s for the same reason that the investigation surrounding ICE activity and incidents in Minnesota needs to be at the federal level, because we cannot trust the people who are empowered in our state. The Democrats have been in charge of Minnesota for over 20 years. They have entrenched themselves. They’ve become extraordinarily arrogant and brazen. They think they can get away with literally anything. And I could go on and on and on with examples about that. But the same folks who are calling ICE Gestapo and fascists and Nazis and saying the same thing about you and me, by the way, and everybody who votes with Republicans, they cannot be trusted to investigate either the fraud or these immigration incidents with any degree of fidelity.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, listen, while I have you and you brought it up, some of these other things, I want to get your thoughts on the anti-ice protest. What has really been the impact on the communities there? What are you seeing and hearing up close?
SPEAKER 20 :
A lot of frustration, a lot of misunderstanding and fear, and of course that chaos is intentional. It’s been fostered very intentionally by Tim Walz, the chair of our state Democrat party here in Minnesota, and as well as I can see virtually every Democrat up and down in any position of power, particularly Mayor Jacob Fry, Attorney General Keith Ellison, they have intentionally created this scenario of conflict by refusing to abide by the supremacy clause of the United States Constitution, by refusing to cooperate with federal law enforcement, by encouraging people, by delegitimizing them, calling them names like we just talked about, saying they’re not real law enforcement, which is something this governor has done. and then seeking activists out to confront them and then defending that federal crime, which is exactly what it is. It is a federal crime to impede law enforcement, characterizing that as lawful protest and peaceful observation. All of this is intentional and it’s created an atmosphere where people are confused. They don’t understand because a lot of folks still want to lend some sort of credibility and credence to their governing authorities that they can trust that they have some sort of good faith effort. But in this case, you can’t. These folks need to be out of power. They cannot be trusted to handle the situation.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, I certainly hope that we’re going to be able to lower the temperature and perhaps the deployment of the National Guard will help based on the last segment. I don’t know if that’s going to help or not. We’ll all wait and see. But I want to thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch. Minnesota State Representative Walter Hudson of District 30A. It’s an honor to have you on Washington Watch. Thank you for your input today. All right, friends, coming up next, Dr. Hormoz Shariat of Iran Alive Ministries will be joining us to share what he’s hearing and seeing on the ground in Iran. You don’t want to miss what’s happening. We’ll be back.
SPEAKER 12 :
For over 4,000 years, the Jewish people have had legal, historical, and biblical ties to the land of Israel, especially the heartland of Israel, Judea and Samaria, which much of the world still calls the West Bank. To Israelis, Judea and Samaria is far more than a name. It’s the center of their ancestral homeland where nearly 80% of the Bible’s events took place. Abraham purchased property in Hebron, Jacob in Shechem, Joshua made an altar on Mount Ebal and led the Israelites into a covenant before God. On Mount Gerizim, overlooking Shechem, Jesus talked to the Samaritan woman at the well about worshiping neither on Mount Gerizim nor in Jerusalem, but in spirit and in truth. Judea and Samaria is nearly a quarter of Israel’s current land mass, not a small strip of land on the Jordan River, but a vital and strategic part of the nation’s identity. The October 7th massacre, launched from Gaza, shattered the illusion that giving away territory brings peace. Gaza, which was once seen as the cornerstone of a two-state solution, became a launchpad for terror. Today, only 21% of Israelis support a Palestinian state. Trust in a two-state solution has all but collapsed. The Middle East is changing. Iran’s grip is weakening. New alliances are forming. But Western countries and some U.S. officials still chase the mirage of a two-state solution. History speaks clearly. The 2005 Gaza withdrawal, backed by the U.S., led not to peace, but to a terrorist regime. Judea and Samaria are 24 times larger than Gaza, deeply woven into Israel’s geographic and spiritual fabric. To surrender them would not bring peace. It would invite conflict and existential danger. Family Research Council stands with Israel’s rightful claim to sovereignty. It’s time for America to do the same for history, for justice, and for lasting security in the Middle East.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you so much for joining us today on Washington Watch and welcome back. I’m your host Jody Heiss filling in today for Tony Perkins. Thank you for tuning in. All right. You probably know by now a U.S. aircraft carrier Stripe Group is now in the Middle East as tensions with Iran continue to rise. And this deployment follows Iran’s violent crackdown on on nationwide protests there. Some reports are telling us as many as 40,000 people have been killed. Now, certainly that number is virtually impossible to independently verify given the near total internet blackout that’s persisted now for the past couple of weeks. But U.S. officials say that the move is meant to deter escalation, not to signal war. But will the Iranian government Get that message. Well, joining me now is Dr. Hormoz Shariat. He’s the founder and president of Iran Alive Ministries. This is a Christian ministry, powerful ministry. They use satellite broadcasting and the internet to reach tons of Iranians with the gospel. Dr. Shariat, welcome back to Washington Watch. Always an honor to have you, my friend.
SPEAKER 03 :
Thank you, Judy. So much is happening, and I’m glad to give an update.
SPEAKER 11 :
We’re thrilled. Yeah, let’s start with your thoughts on, let’s just begin here. How is the U.S. handling the situation in Iran?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, the people of Iran, as you know, majority love America. And now that President Trump kind of made a commitment and a promise, he told them, go on the streets, take over the institutions, and we will send help. Help is on the way. So people went on the streets. thousands of them were killed. And now they’re saying, President Trump, fulfill your promise. Where are you? And it looks like he’s going to do something. Exactly what he is going to do, nobody knows. But the people of Iran are very hopeful and very needy. They say if the US government doesn’t come to their help, this killing will continue, will continue by tens of thousands. So this is the situation, very desperate inside Iran, and the Iranians are so desperate, they’re looking for any help. anybody out there can you help us we have no guns and the government has guns and mercilessly killing people on the streets they’re going to even hospitals they’re wounded did you have you heard that news they go to hospitals they’re wounded who go to hospital for for uh getting the assistants, they go to the hospitals. Those who have been shot and not dead, they kill them in the hospitals while the nurses and doctors are watching and they cannot speak up. They will be killed. This is the bad situation. And at the same time, I can get to what is happening spiritually because there is a shift in the spiritual domain in Iran also.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, I believe I heard you on another program earlier in the week where you actually said the people of Iran recognize the radical Muslims as just a spirit of murder. And they’re really turning in droves to Christ if we can only get the word to them. Is that, in essence, the reality?
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. That’s true. That’s why we get such a high number of people who are coming to Christ through our ministry. You know, we do satellite television, as you mentioned, and they cannot stop satellite. They turn off this internet and social media is off, but the satellite signal goes into their homes and they cannot stop it. And by the way, because the internet is off, we have more viewers now and more people are hearing satellite. the Gospel. But the thing is, the people of Iran, when I talk about the shift, this is what happened, happening the last two weeks. Yes, Iranians have rejected Islam and they’re coming to Christ in great numbers. But what I see the last two weeks is another step, is not just rejection of Islam. They’re not saying, Iranians, oh, I don’t want Islam. I don’t want it in my life. It’s not for me. I reject it. No, they have gone to a new mindset. What I hear more and more, Islam is from Satan. These are people who are Muslim born and they’re saying Islam is not of God. Islam is a source of our miserable life. So we need to get rid of Islam. Before, they would say, oh, Islam is okay. It’s not for me. But it’s the government that’s really cruel. Now, they have shifted their mind. They’re saying it’s the problem is Islam itself. And we need to get rid of Islam. We need to get rid of Islam if we want to have a future for our country.
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s just remarkable. So with that, and we’ve got just about a minute or so left, what should the international community, particularly American Christians, what should we be doing right now to support those who are suffering and those who need to hear and respond to the gospel?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, number one is prayer, of course. You know, the Prince of Persia, the spiritual murder spirit in Islam, we have to pray and bind. We have that authority. Number two, we at Iran Alive, we are helping. We have started helping the families who have been hurt. And did you know that many Christians have been killed among these 38, 40,000 people? There have been many Christians and they’re contacting us and we are telling their stories and we are helping them. We have started a campaign to help the believers in Iran, especially those whose breadwinner has been killed among those 40,000 people. So go to iranalive.org, iranalive.org. help the movement in iran this is a part of a great movement helping these countries but in iran there is history is being made i want to assure you we know the end result jeremiah 49 38 we know iran will be a christian nation god will rule amen jesus we’re gonna we gotta wrap it up
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes. We’ve got to end it right there. Dr. Armaud Chariot, president and founder of Iran Alive Ministries. Powerful, powerful words. Thank you. All right. Coming up after the break, ADF’s David Cortman will join me with a very important religious liberty case underway. Stay with us.
SPEAKER 06 :
Should a Christian support Israel? That question has become one of the most emotionally charged issues of our time, both in the world and within the church. Family Research Council President Tony Perkins offers a clear biblical and prophetic answer. In his latest book, he examines Israel’s past, present, and future through the lens of scripture, revealing why support for Israel is not rooted in politics, partisanship, or cultural sentiment, but in the unchanging promises of God. Drawing from Genesis to Revelation, Tony Perkins demonstrates that the ultimate rationale for a Christian support for Israel is spiritual. Should a Christian support Israel invites believers to see beyond headlines and ideologies, returning to the foundation of God’s Word to understand His heart for His chosen people and the blessings that flow when we stand with what He has established forever. Text the word Israel to 67742 for more information.
SPEAKER 17 :
What is God’s role in government? What does the separation of church and state really mean? And how does morality shape a nation? President John Adams said our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Join Family Research Council for God and Government, a powerful series that explores the connection between biblical principles and the American government, equipping you with truth to engage in today’s most pressing debates. We’ll uncover the foundations of our nation’s history and why it’s relevant for today. Join us to defend God’s plan for government because faith and freedom were never meant to be separate. You can view the course at prayvotestand.org slash godandgovernment or on the Stand Firm app.
SPEAKER 06 :
The book of Hebrews says that the Word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. Stand on the Word is Family Research Council’s journey through the living and active Word of God. Follow the plan with us. Spend 10 to 15 minutes a day reading God’s Word, and over the course of two years, discover that the Bible is one big story, a story of many words, pointing to the Word, the one who is the same yesterday, today, and forever. because the Word is alive and His name is Jesus. Find our Bible reading plan and daily devotionals from Tony Perkins at frc.org slash Bible. Join us as we stand on the Word.
SPEAKER 11 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch. I’m Jody Heiss. An honor to be filling in today for Tony and thank you for joining us as well. All right. For the county council in Maryland’s Wicomico County, the reciting of the Lord’s Prayer before meetings was a longstanding tradition. But all that ended this month when it became clear that the Freedom From Religion Foundation was going to engage them in a very costly legal battle through a court system that, quite frankly, has not been very accepting of public prayer.
SPEAKER 10 :
Play clip four for me, please. Neither I nor the council are happy with this set of circumstances before us, and we are not a council that shies away from a challenge simply because litigation is threatened. But when legal counsel is clear about the probable outcome, when the financial risk to our citizens is so substantial, we have a responsibility to weigh fiscal stewardship against our desire to preserve a tradition we’ve honored for so many years.
SPEAKER 11 :
That was with Comico County Council President John Cannon last week. But what do we know from past court rulings? What do they tell us about this legal battle and how it might have gone? Well, joining me now to discuss this, I’m excited about my next guest, David Cortman. He’s a dear friend of mine going back for years and years. He is a senior counsel and vice president of U.S. litigation with Alliance Defending Freedom. He was co-counsel in the case of Town of Greece versus Galloway, defending freedom to pray at public meetings at the U.S. Supreme Court. David, welcome to Washington Watch. And man, what an honor to see you again.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, great to see you again, Jody.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, before we get into this case that’s unfolding before us in Maryland, let’s go back, if you would give us a quick refresher course on the town of Grease v. Galloway.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, what’s funny about this recent case, it feels a little bit like a blast from the past. These issues have been litigated over a decade ago. They’ve been settled by the Supreme Court over a decade ago. In fact, it’s been four decades since the original case came up to the Supreme Court on legislative prayer. And basically, the court ruled that you can have legislative prayer. People talk about the Establishment Clause, the so-called separation of church and state. And what the Supreme Court said, you have to look at the history and tradition of our country. And these type of legislative prayers have been ongoing since literally the First Amendment was passed and Congress adopted, in fact, hired a chaplain to engage in legislative prayers at the very beginning of our country. And so they’re permissible now.
SPEAKER 11 :
So we still have, in spite of what you just said, groups like the ACLU and Freedom from Religion Foundation and so forth that don’t seem to understand or don’t want to comply with the establishment clause. So can you explain for our audience what an infringement does and does not look like?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, the first point is it doesn’t look like this. So it’s certainly permissible under the Establishment Clause and under the Constitution to have legislative prayer. It’s been ruled upon by the Supreme Court several times, as I mentioned. But what it’s basically for is the Establishment Clause, the separation of church and state, Doesn’t carry what the left wanted to carry. Groups like Freedom From Religion Foundation have been doing this sort of thing for decades now, where they send out these fear-mongering letters. They threaten litigation. They threaten attorney fees. And towns and counties just look at their budget and say, look, we’re already strapped. We don’t want to take the risk of having to pay out attorney fees. And so they say, look, if you don’t stop this practice, we’re going to sue you. The problem is it’s often permissible what these prayers look like. And so here it’s certainly permissible to engage in a legislative prayer. There are several ways it can be done. The Supreme Court has talked about whether it’s before the meeting starts, you do your prayer, you do your pledge of allegiance, you open your meeting. or they say often it’s actually for the legislators the council members the commission members themselves and they can feel free to pray according to their trend their religious tradition so these letters have been going around for decades and and that’s exactly what happens here which is a shame is that counties don’t want to get into protracted litigation and so they basically say fine even though we’ve been doing this for decades we’ll stop
SPEAKER 11 :
Wow, it really is incredible. Let me ask you this, because this seems, although it should not be, it seems to me to be part of the problem here. So when we’re talking about the decision last week with Comico County Council President John Cannon, who we just heard, he mentioned that the chances of them prevailing in these cases are especially slim in the state of Maryland, where he said the courts do not have a record of supporting prayer at government meetings. So my question to you, David Corbin, how much do cases like this depend on location as to where these cases originate?
SPEAKER 04 :
They often do, but they shouldn’t. And what I mean by that is sometimes the law is different in different areas of the country, but that’s why the Supreme Court is there to even all that out. So when it comes to the federal constitution, which is that this is what it entails, both the free exercise of religion and the establishment clause, you look at federal law. And federal law, according to the Supreme Court, is uniform everywhere. So you may have recalcitrant courts that try to distinguish cases or draw the lines differently. But even if this case took to go all the way up to the Supreme Court again, the Supreme Court, I think, would certainly pardon the pun, bless this practice because it’s part of the tradition of our country going back to our founders. And so, you know, does the does the county commission have the appetite to litigate it? Maybe not. But it’s one of those cases where even if it has to go to the Supreme Court, it’s pretty clear that that they’d say this was a constitutional practice.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay, so the council president there, John Cannon, did note that the council there was going to hold a work session for further discussion to try to figure out what other options might be at their disposal. So in light of what you just shared, I would like for you, because maybe this will get back to them, What would you say if you were standing in front of that council and they’re debating what their options are, what would you say to them?
SPEAKER 04 :
What I would say is there’s permissible ways to engage in the practice. I don’t know all the fine details of the way they do things, but there are several ways where the Supreme Court said it’s permissible to engage in these prayers. And so what I would do is advise them on those. One is that the commissioners can take turns uh each meeting and have their own prayer another one is to invite those from the local community on a rotational basis like the town of greece did they basically found out what religious organizations were in their town or locality and invited whoever wanted to come to give the opening prayer to solemnize it so what i would do is advise them and say look the supreme court has said this is permissible let’s check on the practice and and give the advice that’s already been upheld
SPEAKER 11 :
And so in a similar fashion, what about I mean, obviously, Maryland is not the only place that these type of things pop up from time to time. So we have people literally all across the country who are both watching and listening to our conversation right now. What would you say to them? Like, what are the first steps of action if they have a similar scenario taking place in their county commission meeting or city council or school board or whatever it may be? How do they need to stand?
SPEAKER 04 :
So the first thing I’d say, if they get a letter like this, they need to engage a group like Alliance Defending Freedom who could give them legal advice on the exact issue. I’ve seen these letters from Freedom From Religion Foundation literally for 30 years, and they’re of the similar vein. They threaten you with litigation and try to get towns and localities to stop doing whatever religious practice it happens to be. So they need to get advice from groups like ADF who do this sort of work and give them the advice and then hopefully make the decision to take a stand. Because if we don’t, what happens is that erodes religious freedom for all of us. And so it’s one of those issues where it’s important to take a stand, both again for the, you know, Pre-exercise of religion and the Establishment Clause because the Supreme Court’s been clear what those things mean, and it certainly means that it’s permissible to have a legislative prayer at this level and all the way up to levels of Congress.
SPEAKER 11 :
And real quickly, how can people get in touch with ADF?
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. ADF has a website, adflegal.org or 1-800-TELL-ADF. We have people that man the phones. We can give advice on whatever questions people have. And I think the most important thing is, number one, people should get educated. They shouldn’t be scared out of exercising their rights because they get a letter from some group on the left. And they need to be informed because once you get educated and realize what your rights are, then you can make a good decision on standing up for the Constitution and the free exercise of religion, which is extremely important in this country.
SPEAKER 11 :
And when we stand, we typically win on cases like this. Thank you so much, David Cortman, Senior Counsel and Vice President of U.S. Litigation with Alliance Defending Freedom. Always great to see you. Thank you, my friend. Keep the torch ablaze there at ADF. Thanks for joining us.
SPEAKER 04 :
Thanks, Jody.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, to close out today’s program, we want to share with you an interview that Tony had with Louisiana Solicitor General Ben Aguinaga on the weekend program, This Week on Capitol Hill. And they talked about a case that ties into the discussion I just had with David Cortman of ADF, and it highlights how anti-religious groups don’t really understand the Establishment Clause, and so they try to remove anything related to faith from the public square. which is certainly not what our founders intended. But we’d like to take that and let you enter into this conversation that Tony had. And here’s how he got that conversation started.
SPEAKER 12 :
So you were before the Fifth Circuit. I was there in the courtroom listening to the arguments. I thought you did a tremendous job laying out the case for this. What was at the core of the opposition to these Ten Commandments being placed in public school classrooms?
SPEAKER 19 :
Sure. Well, I think the lead argument that we heard from the other side was that simply posting the Ten Commandments, and we can talk about the various ways in which that could happen, but simply posting the Ten Commandments on public school classroom walls would be coercive, unconstitutionally coercive to students. I think the theme is that somehow that would force students to change their religion, force those who have no religion to adopt religion. And I think what we heard from the argument was the judges struggling with that theory, because that’s not any theory of coercion that the Supreme Court has ever endorsed. There are plenty of school cases from the Supreme Court that talk about coercion to participate in a religious exercise. But there’s no plausible argument that simply posting a passive display of the commandments on the wall somehow coerces somebody to participate in a religious exercise. And so I think you heard a lot of struggling about that. But that was the main argument we heard from the other side.
SPEAKER 12 :
I found it interesting that that was everything their opposition built on that one challenge, that this is coercion. And that happened to be the subject of an amicus brief that the Family Research Council filed in that case, explaining that, you know, coercion, you know, requires you to engage in some type of religious exercise with either, you know, punitive action taken against you if you don’t do it. But this is a passive display. And it… At the end of the day, based upon the full court’s questioning, it appears that they really zeroed in on the opponent’s challenge here. And it looked like it was Swiss cheese by the time they ended up.
SPEAKER 19 :
Right. And I think that’s understandable because anybody who’s followed Supreme Court precedents in this space over the past couple of years knows that the Supreme Court has told lower courts, you’ve got to look at history and tradition to understand what the Establishment Clause actually prohibits. And what it prohibits is what was familiar to the founders, which was true establishments of churches. So for example, a government that coerces somebody to attend a church, punishes those who refuse to attend the church. expressly funding a church. These are things that our framers and the founding generation were well familiar with. And that’s the analysis that drives the cases today, which is to say, whatever’s challenged in this case, does it look like an establishment of a church that the framers were concerned with? And that, I think, is the biggest obstacle that the opposition in this case really ran into, is that they’ve got nothing as a historical matter that says simply posting a passive display
SPEAKER 12 :
Your opposing counsel said that posting the Ten Commandments on a public school classroom wall turns it into a church. He said that. They’re in the courtroom. That would mean that the U.S. Supreme Court and other places that have recognition of these documents and their importance to the founding of this nation, they too should be declared churches.
SPEAKER 19 :
That’s exactly right. And think about the House of Representatives chamber, which has over 20 depictions of historical lawgivers, Moses chief among them. Everyone in that chamber is oriented to look at Moses. That Speaker of the House, when he’s on the dais, is oriented to look at Moses. As you say, our nation is covered with religious symbols and acknowledgments of the fundamental role that religion has played in our nation’s history. The Supreme Court has said, obviously, that’s a thing, and schools in our position, schools obviously have good rights to say that we want to teach our students about this foundational document in our national history.
SPEAKER 12 :
General, we just have about 30 seconds left. Timing of a decision by the Fifth Circuit, and will this ultimately end up before the Supreme Court, in your opinion?
SPEAKER 19 :
So we don’t have a strict timeline. I think as a matter of practice, the Fifth Circuit typically tries to get opinions out within about six to eight months after an oral argument. So potentially we could see a decision this summer, maybe early in the fall. And then I do think that whatever side loses in this case will probably appeal to the Supreme Court. And this is a very important case for, not just for Louisiana and Texas, but for states across the country. And at that time, we’ll see if the Supreme Court’s interested.
SPEAKER 12 :
Ben, thanks so much for taking time to join us and again, a great job today, this week before the court.
SPEAKER 11 :
All right, that was Tony’s conversation with Louisiana Solicitor General Ben Aguanyaga. That took place on Tony’s weekend program, This Week on Capitol Hill. And by the way, if you’d like to catch more of that program, you can visit the website there, thisweekoncapitolhill.com. All one word, no spaces, thisweekoncapitolhill.com. Or better yet, you can just watch the entire program on our Stand Firm app, which if you don’t have, just simply text the word APP to 67742. While I still have you, right before we leave, I just want to remind you again, next week is our National Gathering for Prayer and Repentance. That will be on February 4th at the Museum of the Bible. We’d love for you to come join us and members of Congress and other leaders. Find out more by going to ngpr.org. That wraps it up for today. We’ll see you tomorrow here on Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 01 :
Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council. To support our efforts to advance faith, family and freedom, please text GIVE to 67742. That’s GIVE to 67742. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information, please visit TonyPerkins.com.
