Join host Scott Watley and guest Tom Hillman as they discuss the evolution of firearms through history and the significance of local gun shows. As they explore propositions impacting hunters and gun enthusiasts, they invite new generations to join the CGCA. Whether you’re a history buff, a firearm enthusiast, or just curious about Colorado’s hidden treasures, this episode is sure to educate and inspire.
SPEAKER 10 :
Welcome to Sportsman of Colorado, Colorado’s premier outdoor radio show heard every Saturday afternoon on KLZ 560 with insights on hunting, fishing, archery, guns, and ammo from Colorado’s top outfitters featuring the industry’s leading experts on how to enhance your experience in the great outdoors. Now, here’s your host, Scott Watley.
SPEAKER 08 :
Welcome to Sportsman Colorado. Thank you so much for joining us. Hey, we’ve got a great show in store for you. And we’re going to kick it off with a returning guest and a new partnership for us, actually. And it’s with the Colorado Gun Collector Association. Tom Hillman, the president, was with us last month and wanted to get him back on this month. And we’re going to be doing these shows monthly with them, leading up to… Hey, the big show, May 17th and 18th in 2025. Tom, first of all, welcome. How are you?
SPEAKER 09 :
I am fine, thank you. That sounds like a ways away, doesn’t it? Yeah, it does. But it’ll be here before we know it. Unfortunately, it comes very quickly, and it’s a lot of hours, but something we enjoy doing.
SPEAKER 08 :
Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER 09 :
And as I was mentioning the last time, Scott, the Colorado Gun Collectors Association is probably maybe one of the best-kept secrets in Colorado. Mm-hmm. is one of the premier firearms and the arms period shows here in the Mid-Mountain area. We are an association that promotes the friendship and mutual benefit to persons who collect, preserve, use and study historical arms. And the accessories that go along with that as far as they make the work. We were established in 1964. We currently have a membership of about 550 people. And we have monthly meetings every month except for December, which we take off for a little banquet. Sure, sure. But it’s interesting, and we also, I should say… One of our meetings, we have an auction from the members, and we use that to support safe shooting and habits and help the high school shooting clubs in the state of Colorado. All right. Now, is that open to the public, your auction? Our auction is not.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s just a within-the-group type thing. Well, what if somebody wanted to donate something for you? Would that be something? We would be more than happy to donate it, and we’ll guarantee you 100% of the money received will go to youth shooting.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay. So, hey, if you’re out there, is it all right to give them a number to call, or would you like an email, or what would you like?
SPEAKER 09 :
Basically, just go onto the computer is probably the easiest way, and look up CGCA, all caps.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
And it’ll give you phone numbers right there for myself, for our show manager, other people.
SPEAKER 08 :
And we would be more than happy to take any donations. Hey, we’re going to be in these months of giving here. You never know. So maybe somebody can help us out. Things happen.
SPEAKER 09 :
Or if you want to be sure you’re legally getting rid of something, we can make sure of that for you, too.
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s a huge point right there for sure.
SPEAKER 09 :
And, you know, when we get into this, we are the, like we say, we have the show for historical arms. And you’ve got to remember, this covers a lot of different things, which people out there might like to see. Of course, always the guns from probably 1600 up through the Korean War. We are now getting into for our timetable. There’ll be swords. There’ll be military. There’ll be knives. There’s quite often bits and pieces of armor out there, Native American items. Even really old saddle and tack. Everything with that western collective thing. And everything in our show, we strive to be having it 50 years old or older. Which is from the beginning of time almost. That means I can come. 50 years or older. 50 years old. Yeah, right. But, you know, we’re well through the Korean War now. vintage type weapons.
SPEAKER 08 :
Does it come up where sometimes people say, hey, I bought this at a garage sale or I bought this at some estate sale and they have no idea what they have and then all of a sudden they found out it’s got some pretty good value to it? Does that happen?
SPEAKER 09 :
That happens also. And, you know, basically one of the things we do in this, again, is amongst members, but I was out yesterday talking to one of our members and identified four swords for him. And we kind of put values on it and got his thoughts on that. So as a member, there is a ton of expertise sitting in that membership. Right. I happen to have a lot of interest not only in period weaponry as far as guns, but also in knives, swords, and things of that nature. And I particularly love the Filipino-Spanish-American war period.
SPEAKER 05 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
Again, we are historians. Right. But we’re also shooters.
SPEAKER 08 :
Mm-hmm. When you look back at, you know, you go back through all the times, medieval things and all that. I mean, what’s kind of been the biggest progression in the guns from period to period?
SPEAKER 09 :
Sure, and it’s kind of an interesting story, and I won’t get into it in any great depth, but, you know, the guns started in a hand cannon, they called them, which essentially was a little four-inch piece of tubing attached to a rod that they would fire on hand, and the Chinese began that. From there, it progressed into what they would call more so your… not pulling a word here, but a matchlock. And that is where they had a basics of the gun where they’ve got the stock and the barrel, but the powder or the charge was started by an actual lit little fuse coming down into the powder hole like they used to do on the cannons again. From there it went on to wheel lock pistols, which were a spanning mechanism. And then really the first getting a little more modern, the flintlocks. And they started in the early 1700s, carried through for a long period of time. But there was one basic problem with the flintlock. If it was raining, those battles had to be postponed. Or your hunting trip had to be postponed. Because you’ve got your powder in a pan outside the weapon, which is creating the initial spark to set off the bullet. But then that was solved again in about the 1840s when they came out with a percussion cap. And the percussion cap was enclosed against the weather. It could be put on a nipple. It basically was a mercury fulminate type of charge. And now you could shoot that weapon off just about any kind of weather.
SPEAKER 08 :
My dad used to have a saying, I don’t know, I’d leave him after a wild visit or something. He’d go, keep your powder dry. I wonder, that’s probably where that came from.
SPEAKER 09 :
Absolutely, that’s where that came from. And then again, from there it went into your black powder cartridges, which are very similar to what we’re using today, which is the smokeless cartridge. And at that point, that’s where at this time, other than in ballistics, kind of where everything stopped at that point is where we’re at. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wow, that’s great. So… I think you enjoy just being around you here a few times. I think you love just sitting down with people and looking at things and sharing what you know about it. It’s a real passion for you, isn’t it?
SPEAKER 09 :
It is a passion for me. And everybody in that group is patient. Your patient might be one thing, an edge weapon, you’re patient. You might want to get more into something like the Colts and the Winchesters of the Wild West. Some of our people are into the carbines and the grands from, you know, the war, as well as the fighting knives and swords used by the various countries. At the last show, I picked up a World War II Japanese katana sword, personally. Wow. Wow. You know, these are things which were actually used. Sure. You know, we’re not, it’s not what you would call a garage queen, although many of the guys like it, something that’s never been touched also. So we’re all kind of in our own way. That’s what we’re doing. But the great thing about a show like ours is you can come in and actually see the items, talk to the people. They all have some knowledge of everything that they have on their table. You can learn. You can see, touch. You can bring your child along, male, female. It does not matter. Let them come in and see really what kind of forged… our nation and what led into the current hunting things that they’re doing.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Now, just, well, the new things we’re going through, shows like that, how does it work? Are these guns any different under the law of the three-day?
SPEAKER 09 :
Absolutely. And we’ll start with anything manufactured prior to 1897. It’s just a case that you go in, if you like it, you want it, you’ve got the money for it, you can take it. And that is federal law, which takes precedence. The next step is what they call a curio and relics list. And these are items which were in a law passed by Congress again, the federal law, which states that these items can be sold to the general public as collector items. Now here, you do have to go through the background check. But once that background check is complete, these items, which are on that list, you can take home that day again. Anything that’s not on that list or prior to 97, then we’re talking the full, we follow the laws, which is the background check and the three-day waiting period.
SPEAKER 08 :
Sure, sure. And, you know, I don’t want to forget this or run out of time, so let’s bring up this article. Our ballot, our election coming up, several things on there that are huge. And, again, we’ll get back to your topic here.
SPEAKER 09 :
And I asked Scott if we could talk about this a little bit, too.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, absolutely we can.
SPEAKER 09 :
Because it affects all of us. Yeah. And, again, now here at this point I’m talking as a private citizen of this state. I’m not – although many of the members of our club are of the same mind. But we are particularly against Proposition 127. We feel this is something which is being fostered onto the hunting group primarily. And it’s really being a lot of it funded by outside money from outside our state. So it really behooves the hunter. And those who are interested in keeping this particular aspect to go out and vote and vote the way you feel. If you feel it’s right, go ahead. Fine. That’s your privilege. Right. Personally, I’m against it because I think it’s intrusion by.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, it is. And I would just ask everyone to educate themselves on it, you know, before they vote. Yes, for sure. Because, you know. i don’t know everything about every animal and every species you know and i’ve been doing this all my life and so yeah we all learn you learn something about guns every day we all learn thing different things and when you see what this would do um i mean i was talking with a gentleman that day and we were talking about just bobcats if bobcats were no longer managed by the scientists and biologists at cpw and we got overrun with bobcat guess what we’re probably going to be out of here in just a few short years turkeys because that’s the number one predator for turkeys. So there’s a whole lot that plays into this instead of just the hunting aspect, you know. Oh, without question.
SPEAKER 09 :
Just the wildlife aspect. And if you look at the law again that they’re trying to get passed, which is your Proposition KK, which is basically a punitive-type tax on anybody who wants to own a gun or buy ammunition for an existing gun.
SPEAKER 05 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 09 :
And it’s, again, a smaller group trying to enforce their will. And I really hope we all get out and vote on this, which is the American way. Sure. And state our opinion. And if I think everybody who listens to this program would, we’d be surprised by the results we would get. There’s more support in Denver and some other areas than you may believe out there.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Also got the fur ban as well, so… once again if you’ve already voted uh hopefully you you took these matters into account and uh just looking at what is best for our state and um our sportsmen outdoorsmen our wildlife and um we just don’t need to pay any more taxes on buying guns and ammo that’s for sure all right so Let’s talk about, you said there were 500-something members, right? Right, 550-something members. Let’s be honest. All the people that got guns, man, that should be 5,000. How do we, and this is one portion of our show here that we’re trying to do is bring awareness that you guys exist, okay? Because it would be great to have some younger folks jump on board with us.
SPEAKER 09 :
We’re more than happy, and the people who really started this program club 64 years ago started because of their interest in these arms and you know it’s very interesting to me then you go back far enough Eli Whitney who also invented the cotton gym we all learned in school back when it was also the man who started the defense industry in the United States where he felt that we should supply our own arms rather than be beholden to another country such as Great Britain or France sure And throughout history, that’s been kind of the case where we have gone ahead and it’s aided the manufacturing, it’s invaded innovation. There are many aspects. Went to another friend’s house a while back. He has 30 different carbines that were patented for the Calvary during the Civil War. 31 different ideas on how this could be done the best way. And you look at their engineering techniques, and if I was an engineer, I would love it because I, even more, I should say, because you get to see where these ideas came from, and you really get a glimmer of these people.
SPEAKER 08 :
Have you been to the museum in Wyoming? I have not. I’m telling you, bud, that you need to go see.
SPEAKER 09 :
We hear a lot about it.
SPEAKER 08 :
It is unbelievable.
SPEAKER 09 :
And, you know, basically there’s a declining population of people who have this knowledge and information. So if I was a young person and I wanted to learn, these are the organizations I would be looking for. Because this is free information. You’re not paying a tuition for it. Not having to, you know, pay an entry fee. Well, yeah, I’m sorry. You would at the show. Pardon me. But, you know, this information is given freely.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, absolutely. Again, Tom Hillman is with us. He is the president of the Colorado Gun Collector Association. And as Tom said, hey, you can just… Go online, put in CGCA, and a lot of information will come up there, again, about the show next year, May 17th and 18th. And circle, put those dates in your calendar right now that you can come up and attend those. But our friends over at the Gun Room were last year there, Wayne, which was where we met. Absolutely was there. One of his events. Had a nice display. Yeah, and they really, really loved it, too. I guess what I like about those kind of shows, and I’m sure plan on going this year, is you never know what you’re going to see, man. And that’s kind of just so cool because you never know.
SPEAKER 09 :
It changes every year. Different collections may become available. People decide it’s time that we really don’t need that anymore. You’ll see very different things. And unfortunately, the museums are not showing this type of thing anymore. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Now, if people said, hey, this sounds kind of interesting. What do I need to do? Or they have meetings or something like that that I could come to to get to meet people and see if it’s something I want to be a part of. What are the steps in doing that?
SPEAKER 09 :
Again, go aboard. Give me a call. You just want to come to one meeting? You can be my guest.
SPEAKER 13 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
See if it’s something you like. Unfortunately, the next one is the auction. So we’re really looking at January before we would start having the programs again. The last one was on the Lend-Lease Program during World War II. And it was just put on by a young man who was specialized in that field, getting his master’s in it. Extremely interested in the sacrifices made by our country to aid others to fight the Axis powers during World War II. Oh, okay. But the one before that was on Parker Hale shotguns, probably the best shotgun, the most expensive one made in the world in England. Wow. So we cover a variety of items.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. And it seems like in your group, I mean, you’ve got people that – If you were to bring something in, somebody in your group is going to know something about that period of time, right?
SPEAKER 09 :
And again, this kind of helps. There’s two parts of our meetings which people might find of interest. In addition to the program, we have a period where everybody brings in something they have bought new, shows it, and tells about it. And if the program happens to coincide with the program that night, They will definitely bring that item along, too. We had Sharps and how it affected the buffalo herds in the United States. And people bought their original Sharps rifles along.
SPEAKER 08 :
Can you find cartridges for most of these Western-type guns?
SPEAKER 09 :
Getting pretty hard. I would love to have some. There are companies that specialize in it, and there will be people at these shows who specialize in selling antique ammunition.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
Anything, you know, the pinfire weapons, the paper cartridges, we get to look and see all of that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Did you see the movie Tom Horn with Steve McQueen?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes, I did.
SPEAKER 08 :
All right. Now, like a rifle like he shot in that movie. And I’d love to shoot something like that.
SPEAKER 09 :
I think he had, like, I’m trying to remember the exact rifle, to be very honest with you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, right, right.
SPEAKER 09 :
I know he used an 1873 Winchester.
SPEAKER 08 :
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
Which was usually a .44 caliber.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right, right.
SPEAKER 09 :
But I think he had something a little more specialized.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I know, yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
And more state-of-the-art, shall we say.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, it was cool. Well, anything else we need to mention?
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I just want to remind, again, you had the dates, but we are always the weekend after Mother’s Day. So, ladies, please, you know, treat your husband. Let him come, and please come with him. We very much enjoy families. It’s something I take my grandchildren to. You’re absolutely safe there. There’s security in the premises and in the surrounding areas. It is… Just a short ride up to Greeley. Right. To where it’s held, and it’s a modern facility. Sure. Very comfortable. Yeah. And I think you would enjoy it.
SPEAKER 08 :
And if you ever have a question and you want to get in touch with Tom or something, I’ll tell you what, we just want to make it easy. You can shoot me a text at 720-201-8585. If you ever have a question, maybe you listen to the show and you can’t call in and that’s just a hassle for you, but you got a question or a topic you would like to see us cover, on these segments with Tom, we’d be happy to do that. So again, all you have to do is send me a text at 720-201-8585. But let us reiterate, this Proposition KK on this tax, if you haven’t voted yet, and if you have, hopefully you voted no on that. But please, please, please vote no on that. All right, we do not need another tax. And They’re just coming after us, Tom, for every angle, you know, from the hunting side to the gun side to, you know, fur ban. Like I said, I mean, think about this real quick. Fly fishing guys and gals, they use different little things on these little flies to catch fish. Hey, that’s something. You look at the stock show in Denver, and I don’t have the number in front of me. We did a segment on it earlier last week where the millions, really, it would cost the stock show if that fur ban goes in effect because about 25% of the vendors there are
SPEAKER 09 :
that have booths there that we all go by when we go to the stock show have something to do with fur or byproduct of animals different like that that would all be illegal then so it would be a very bad thing and i remember these folks too a lot of them this is their income yeah this is their livelihood and we’re talking you know artists we’re talking native american artists uh All these folks need these places to do it, and you might not even be able to wear your cowboy hat anymore. I know. But I know that’s far-fetched. They say it’s not part of it. Right. But I’m telling you. It is felt.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yep, it is. All right. Tom, as always, we appreciate it, sir. Thank you for the good work you guys are doing. It’s the Colorado Gun Collector Association. Hey, check it out. You can just Google it, CGCA, and look up all the information. And, again, if you have any questions, send me a text, 720-201-8585, and we’ll get your questions answered. You’re listening to Sports from Colorado. We’ve got to take a quick break, and we’ll be back with more right after this.
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SPEAKER 15 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
This is KLZ 560 AM, your home station.
SPEAKER 08 :
Welcome back to Sportsman of Colorado. Again, thank you so much for joining us today. Quick reminder now, if you miss our live show on Saturdays from 1 to 2, you can catch us twice on Sundays, and that’s from 8 to 9 a.m., 8 to 9 p.m., and then on Thursdays from 9 to 10 a.m., you will also hear the previous Saturday show. So, hey, four times a week. You can catch Sportsman of Colorado. And one of those people that make it possible is Tim Christopherson, owner of Shoot Indoors.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, with Shoot Indoors, I’ve got locations in Aurora off 225 in Mississippi and then in Denver off of 6th Avenue and I-25. So Shoot Indoors.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, when you look back, we were kind of talking before we came on air, 11 years. What did you have in mind? You’ve been doing this. Where did you think, or where did you wanna be this time 11 years ago?
SPEAKER 12 :
You know, when I started with Shoot Indoors, I didn’t think this was a possibility. Actually, it was a part-time job for me to help make ends meet, actually. So, you know, fast forward 11 years, I’ve now opened two locations, helped an additional location get opened up here in Colorado. So that makes four total for Colorado. So it’s just been kind of a roller coaster, and it’s been fun, though. I did not have this opportunity.
SPEAKER 08 :
envisioned at all but uh just the way it worked out and it worked out well so we were talking not a bad job man to be at a on a gun range and be at a gun range and you know because automatically you’re going to meet great people i mean that you know like-minded so to speak love what you love pretty much oh absolutely our uh our customers are our best asset i will say um right next to my employees and uh
SPEAKER 12 :
You know, the fact that they’re coming in wanting to learn, wanting to practice, wanting to do the right thing, you know, as gun owners. And that’s what we help support and definitely encourage. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, I don’t know. I know 11 years ago, neither one of us would have thought we would be facing some of the things we’re facing today in the political world, you know, against guns. So a couple of things just want to mention, you know, the tax, the Prop KK, I believe it is. That’s a 6.5 percent tax on ammo and guns.
SPEAKER 12 :
That’s what they’re proposing. That’s what we’re voting on in just a few days here. So, yeah, it is. will hurt the industry for sure. I’m not looking forward to it if it happens to get through. But as we’ve proven in this industry, we know how to persevere as well. So it’ll create challenging times. But again, this gun industry and the industry that we’re in really will band together and make the best of it.
SPEAKER 08 :
I was reading a little bit on that and it said like, now the stores have an option to pay the tax for the customer or to pass it on. And I’m like, What? No one can afford it. I mean, margins, you know, on new guns especially. Oh, for sure. You know, margins on new guns are very small. Markup on ammo is not very good. I mean, there’s no way a store can do it. So it is going to the customer.
SPEAKER 12 :
It’s a tax going to be directly on the consumer is how I’m viewing that tax, and that’s how I’m going to have to – presented as well. Like you said, margins are tight. Expenses are up always. So it’ll be, unfortunately, a tax on the consumer that they’ll have to absorb.
SPEAKER 08 :
What do you see different? Again, we’ll do a little reflecting here. Over these last seven, eight, nine years to now, what are you seeing different in the people that are coming in to shoot for new clients and customers? Are you seeing, like, a different type of person, so to speak, male, female growth? I mean, what are you seeing?
SPEAKER 12 :
You know, women in the firearms industry is growing as a sport, a lot more participation there. But one thing unique about shooting indoors is we’ve always been, you know, very – welcoming to all skill levels, all people. And so I haven’t seen our clientele change a lot other than increase in volume, which is obviously what any business wants to do is grow their customer base. So it’s just a matter of people finding us, falling in love with us, and then coming back over and over again. Sure.
SPEAKER 08 :
And, you know, what makes that, I think, is, I mean, I’ve told people before when I’ve talked to about it, I go, hey, this is kind of a no frills. I mean, you’re not trying to impress anybody with a building or, you know, a coffee shop or whatever. You want just a good, comfortable, safe place for people to shoot. And man, I’m telling you, that’s all people are really looking for.
SPEAKER 12 :
And that’s exactly what we provide every single day. I mean, our lanes are climate controlled, so you’re getting 68 and sunny every day. And, you know, it’s just something it offers a safe, clean environment to shoot. We have, you know, air handling equipment that is keeping the range clean airwise and We go through a rigorous cleaning process each day to keep those toxins at a minimum, and we’re just providing that fun, safe place to shoot.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Now, it’s easier to say what you can’t shoot there than what you can shoot because you can shoot about anything. What are some things that maybe you can’t shoot?
SPEAKER 12 :
So what we don’t allow is birdshot or any type of shot when it comes to shotguns. So buckshot and rifled slugs or just slugs are okay. And we cap our rifle at 50 BMG. We don’t allow 50 BMG. That’s the one caliber we don’t allow. Wow.
SPEAKER 08 :
That’s awesome, though. Yeah. And, you know, one thing I was impressed today, I mean, years ago when I met you, it’s like the hours that you were open because a lot of people can’t make this, you know, 10 to five slot or 10 to six. So tell us about your concept there and making the hours like you do.
SPEAKER 12 :
Oh, yeah. We just try to accommodate everybody’s work schedule. Not everybody works a 9 to 5, and if you do, you miss out on a lot of range opportunities. So we stay open until 10 p.m. during the weekdays, and we’re open from 8 a.m. until 7 p.m. on the weekends. So we really try to accommodate as many people’s schedules as we can based on what their lifestyle brings them. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
And, you know, if people are looking for something with a work type event, family type event, that’s something that you guys have really done well at is, you know, team building type things where a company maybe want to come bring their employees better than going bowling or playing putt-putt. You know what I mean? Oh, absolutely. But you guys can set up some whatever they really want to do, right? Yeah, this is way more fun. Yeah.
SPEAKER 12 :
But, yeah, we can accommodate groups. We’ve accommodated groups up to 50 people with ease. And we could even go probably larger than that if we had to. We accommodate those after hours, before hours, or during the regular weekdays. It’s easy to accommodate a group like that.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Tim has been kind enough to give us some gift cards. So I’ll tell you what we’re going to do. We’ve got a couple of gift cards. The first gift card we’ll give away will be for $50, and this will be to the store in Aurora off Mississippi, correct? Yep, correct. 1310 South Abilene. All right. And so they’re only good at that location, all right? But the first one we’re going to give away is $50, and then we’ll give away a second one for $25. Now, all you have to do is call 303-477-5600. Give Charlie your information, and I will call you after the show, and we’ll get those to you. So caller one, you be the quickest, and you’ll get the $50 one. Caller number two, you’ll win a $25 gift certificate to shoot indoors. Again, the number is 303-477-5600. Now, if you’re hearing a replay, okay, again, on Sunday or Thursday, I can promise you they were gone on Saturday. So, again, this is a Saturday only for our live show, these two gift cards. So, again, caller one, $50. Caller number two, $25. And we want to thank Tim for those gift cards. Until we mention some things changing, another law that goes into effect, I believe, next July is concerning concealed carry and the permits, the training, different things like that. So walk us through what’s new.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, correct. So starting July of next year, the The requirement for obtaining a concealed carry permit in Colorado will be taking an eight-hour class, which includes live fire. Typically, your classes now are going to run probably three to five hours and may or may not include live fire, but there are going to be new requirements for that with the live fire. And also… requiring instructors to be verified through the county that they’re teaching in. You know, I can assure you we already have our instructors verified, so they’re ready to go when these new laws come out. But it’s just going to be, you know, one more thing that we’ve got to, you know, make sure we’re doing our due diligence to obtain that permit properly, obtain the training properly, something we’ve done for over a decade at shoot-in doors and something we’ll continue to do. One thing that is unique about us is we do offer, you know, outside instructors the ability to come in and train their students. You won’t find that at a lot of ranges. And we like serving the industry. We like meeting new people in the industry. So how better to do that than allow instructors to come in introduce themselves and we’ll help them get their students on the range. There is also a renewal class that will be required, so anybody that needs to renew their course or their CCW permit will have to take a two-hour class from a verified instructor as well. That does include live fire also.
SPEAKER 08 :
So for folks that don’t have a permit and want to get it now… It would be a good time to do that, correct?
SPEAKER 12 :
I would say be in that class by March just to make sure you’ve got time to get that paperwork filed properly and get your permit back from the county prior to that law taking effect. Otherwise, like I said, not that our class was ever short of what the eight-hour requires, but unfortunately the cost will have to go up, and things are going to change from our perspective as well. So take advantage of this one-year window they gave us to get that permit if you’ve been considering it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Once again, we’re visiting with Tim Christopherson. He is the owner of GoShootIndoors.com is the website, but it’s Shoot Indoors. And again, the location that’s good for the gift cards that we just talked about is 1310 South Abilene. And you mentioned the other locations at the beginning, but let’s run through those.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yes, we’ve got our location in Denver, which is 6th Avenue and I-25, 410 Raritan Way is that address. Our original location, been there for almost 11 years, is going to be Shootin’ Doors and Broomfield off of Highway 36 and 120th. You can see that right from Highway 36 as you’re driving in. And then our newest location off 39th and Monaco, that’s our Shootin’ Doors Central Park location.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. Now, if somebody, you know, is new to this and they say, you know, I really don’t want to do a class type setting or something, but would like someone just to spend some time with me, you know, individually, they want to do that. Do you have some folks that are available for to hire something like that? Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER 12 :
On a per hour basis? Yep. At all of our locations, we have instructors available for a private instruction lesson. usually about 125 dollars for a 90 minute session for beginners we’re going to start that in the classroom for 30 minutes go over basics fundamentals really build that foundation and then we’ll spend 60 minutes on the range going through what we just learned in the classroom so yeah we’ve got instructors at all locations that will be able to do private lessons with you right and you do some things for vets too don’t you Yeah, we offer a military discount all day, every day. You’re going to save about $6 off your range fees, and we also waive your new shooter processing fee as well. And that goes for law enforcement, firefighters, EMTs as well. What is your most popular membership? Our memberships are great. The core membership is what we call it. That’s our all open hours, seven days a week membership. Goes for $40 a month, no startup fee.
SPEAKER 1 :
$40?
SPEAKER 12 :
No startup fee and no contract. We just need a 10-day notice if you’re going to cancel. And the nice thing about our membership is it’s good at all four locations. No matter where you purchase a membership, you can use it at any of our locations in the metro area.
SPEAKER 08 :
Wow, that’s great. Well, man, congrats, Tim. You’ve done a good job. And I know we were talking before, your staff certainly makes your job easier. But, you know, you’ve certainly done a great job at building great staff there.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, and we love the communities we’re in. We do a lot with communities and reach out, and my staff is what brings people coming back. So come in and check us out. Right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Now, sometimes you’ll hear when Ryan rushes on with us from Bighorn Firearms, and then Tim, they do some things together and some events together, so we’ll always let you know about those. I’m sure some more of those will be coming up here sometime. over the next year as well. But folks, if you’re looking for just a great range, and I said earlier, hey, a clean, safe range and a staff that’s ready to help you no matter where you are, maybe in your knowledge of guns or shooting, they’ll be glad to help you at Shoot Indoors. And once again, the website is GoShootIndoors.com. You can follow them on social media as well. And, Tim, as always, thank you for your time, sir. I look forward to our visit next time. Thanks, Scott. Appreciate it. You’re listening to Sportsman of Colorado. We’ve got to take a quick break, and we’ll be back with more right after this.
SPEAKER 11 :
Are you in the market for a new firearm or maybe looking to purchase your very first firearm? Well, wouldn’t it be great to have an experience worth telling your friends and family about while making such an important purchase? At Bighorn Firearms, we know how important that is, and it’s our mission to provide this experience to every customer that walks through our front door. Hi, I’m Ryan, owner of Bighorn Firearms, located in southeast Denver, and my team and I are customers too. We know what it’s like to experience the typical specialty store attitude, and we believe everyone deserves a first-class experience when purchasing a firearm. If you’re searching for friendly service, a knowledgeable and passionate staff, and a great selection of firearms, we’d like to invite you to Denver’s best independent gun store, Bighorn Firearms, one mile east of Evans and I-25. Whether it’s your first gun or you’ve been collecting for years, our friendly and knowledgeable staff are passionate about answering all of your questions. Service and selection is our commitment to you. That’s Bighorn Firearms, located at 2175 South Jasmine Street, Suite 105, Denver. Call us now, 303-758-9423, or shop online, bighornusa.com.
SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
Hey, Dan. You know, our jobs are pretty different. I’m a baseball announcer. You’re an attorney and a talk show host. Yeah, but we do have something in common.
SPEAKER 07 :
Really? What’s that? Our favorite car dealer, Len Lyle Chevrolet.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, definitely not your typical dealership. That’s so true, Jack. No high-pressure sales tactics. They respect your time. And when you have two jobs, that’s important. You know, I’d recommend Len Lyle Chevrolet to anyone. And with their low overhead, that means… Lower prices.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah, we really do have something in common.
SPEAKER 06 :
Len Lyle Chevrolet. Go east and pay the least. Chevy. Find new roads.
SPEAKER 13 :
Riding an e-bike will make you feel like a kid again. Just try it. Hi, I’m Randy Curranci, founder of e-bike of Colorado. E-bikes are a fun way to ride the trails. Pedal assist technology flattens the steepest hills. We have 14 major brands to choose from and our expert staff will find you the perfect bike. Come take a free test ride at e-bike of Colorado in downtown Louisville next to the historic grain elevator. Open seven days a week from 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Learn more at ebikeofcolorado.com. Just try it.
SPEAKER 14 :
I love Colorado’s wildlife, and that’s why I’m voting no on Proposition 127. Colorado’s mule deer population dropped from 600,000 in 2004 to just over 350,000 today. At the same time, our mountain lion population is at an all-time high. Unless they’re in check, mountain lions will continue to decimate Colorado’s deer population, killing more than 200,000 deer each year. Let’s love all wildlife and vote no on 127.
SPEAKER 03 :
This is AM 560 KLZ, your home station.
SPEAKER 08 :
Welcome back to the show. We’re glad you are with us. We’re going to go to phones now. Talk to Ian Escalante. He is the executive director for Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, commonly referred just RMGO. Ian, thanks for being with us. How are you?
SPEAKER 16 :
Doing well, Scott. Thanks for having me on.
SPEAKER 08 :
You bet. You bet. And congrats on your new position. So tell us about that.
SPEAKER 16 :
Absolutely. So took over Rocky Mountain Gun Owners in August. Honestly, I mean, going right into a very, very highly contested election can be stressful at times. Sure. For sure. I’m very excited. I mean, I think we have a really good opportunity to turn the trajectory of our state around. And quite frankly, we don’t really have much time to do it. If we don’t figure something out here, we don’t get a good result next week. I’m not sure how much there is left to do to save Colorado. So we’ve been working really hard. We’ve been working on pushing for people in the state legislature. A lot of people tend to focus on the president and Congress. during the these big election years but honestly the most important thing especially when it comes to the things that affect the lives of everyday coloradans is getting people who are solid into the state legislature yeah i mean the people in the state legislature have been the ones that have been pushing for all this gun control they’re the ones that are trying to push a guns and ammo tax on the ballot and if you want to expand even beyond The Second Amendment issues, the legislature is the reason why we are seeing so many things go wrong in Colorado at the moment. So it’s so important that we get in there. We kick out the people who have been violating our rights now for the last two years, quite frankly, for the last six years since the Democrats took the trifecta. in 2018. We need to kick those people out. We need to get good, solid pro-gun champions in there. And we need to aggressively start rolling back a lot of the stuff that they’ve passed in the last couple of years.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. And if you’re not a member of RMGO, I highly recommend that. And man, I look at the money just last year and You know, and just coming to y’all’s banquet and all the different things that we did and just learning more about, I mean, just the expenses of just a lawsuit and, you know, going after all the things that you guys did, you know, just in 2024 was massive amounts of money, wasn’t it?
SPEAKER 16 :
We did, yeah. We spent probably about a quarter million dollars on the legislative session. We’re spending about $100,000 on the general election, specifically for candidates that doesn’t even take into account all what we’re spending on the ballot measures. So we’re fighting hard right now, and we have to win. There’s really no other choice here. We either win next week, We take some seats back. We finally put these radical anti-gun leftists, take them down a couple pegs. If we don’t do that, or God forbid they pick up seats, they’re going to run roughshod all over us. So we need to make sure that, I mean… Colorado sends a ballot to every single mailbox. Honestly, they probably shouldn’t do that, but they do. So if you’re a gun owner, if you’re a sportsman, if you care at all about the Second Amendment, you have no excuse not to vote. You need to. Go to your mailbox. Go to rmgo.org slash endorsement. You can find our endorsements there. And it’s so incredibly important that you vote between now and next Tuesday. And if you don’t vote, you really have no business complaining if this state ends up going the way of California or Illinois.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. And, you know, I’m telling a lot of people, too, same thing with this Prop 127 with the mountain lion, the trophy band, so-called. that it’s going to take not only the sportsmen and outdoorsmen and women and sports people out there, but it’s also going to take some conversation with just neighbors that don’t hunt at all. And I think it’s the same way here for us to be victorious. It’s going to take us having just some nice civil conversations with people to explain what this will mean if we lose the election on this.
SPEAKER 16 :
Absolutely. It’s really just across the board. I mean, you have Proposition KK, the guns and ammo tax. That’s going to run gun shops out of business. They’re going to have to pay this new additional excise tax on every piece of inventory that they have. Their sales are going to tank because people aren’t going to want to go buy guns if there’s a 6.5% excise tax. And additionally, you have the trophy hunting ban. We’re going to see the mountain lion population get out of control the same way. We did with the same way it has for the wolf population. They passed this four years ago to release these apex predators into the wild. And now they want to go ahead and not only just protect the wolves, but they also want to protect the mountain lions, the bobcats, and the lynx. It’s going to destroy the elk and deer population. You’re going to see, you actually saw earlier this year in Rocky Mountain National Park when there was an overpopulation of bobcats. There were hikers in the park that were getting attacked. by bobcats and by mountain lions so people really need to understand that they’re not just trying to oh protect they’re not pushing for common sense solutions like they claim to that old adage is starting to run out what they want to do is they want to turn colorado into canada yeah
SPEAKER 08 :
No, you’re right. And, you know, I was talking with a biologist with CPW off the record, so to speak. And we were just talking about he said, well, if you don’t like turkeys, that’s what’s going to happen if they win this with the bobcat. Because bobcats, that’s the biggest predator of turkeys. And he said, hey, three to five years won’t be a turkey in the state of Colorado. And, you know, here’s another thing real quick. It is on the links, of course. It’s already federally protected. So I’ve asked many people, why do you think they put that on there when they’re federally protected? We can’t hunt them now because, you know what, it made a third cute furry picture, you know?
SPEAKER 16 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 08 :
Exactly.
SPEAKER 16 :
Absolutely. No, I agree with that 100%. So, I mean, that’s a problem. You have people that I think really the thing that the voters need to get through their head is that you don’t have people who just disagree with you, or they have a different view on things, or maybe they have a nuanced way of thinking. No, these people hate you. They hate Coloradans. They hate hunters. They hate sportsmen. They hate gun owners. They hate anyone who’s not a blue-haired, freak from boulder quite frankly that’s exactly what it is that’s who these people are these people want to get rid of the second amendment they have already said that they want to completely abolish it they want to ban hunting these people are pushing to literally ban the sale of cowboy hats in denver right now i mean this is absolutely ridiculous So this is what we’re dealing with right now. Do we want to end up as the laughingstock of the nation like Colorado, Illinois, Washington, and states like Massachusetts or Vermont? Or do we want to say, no, this is the West? This is our state. We are not going to allow the blue haired lefty Californians to come in here and ruin everything. We’re going to fight back. We’re going to stand up and we’re going to run these people out of Denver.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yep. He is with us once again. He’s executive director for Rocky Mountain Gun Owners. Is it RMGO.com? I should know offhand. RMGO.org. OK. All right. And and so once again, tell us about membership real quick.
SPEAKER 16 :
Absolutely. So if you’re not a member of Rocky Mountain Gun Owners, you definitely should be. We’re the only 100 percent no compromise Second Amendment advocacy group in the state of Colorado that fights in the courts, fights in the legislature and fights in the election. Now, unfortunately, we’re up against it. We have Michael Bloomberg, a multibillionaire. who throws money at anti-Constitution organizations like Moms Demand Gun Control, Everytown for Gun Confiscation. And quite frankly, when he’s able to dump millions of dollars into there, they have us on the money side. We don’t have Bloomberg money. We don’t have George Soros money. The only way we’re able to do what we do is because of the generous donations of of gun owners across the state from our members. So if you are not a member yet and you care about the Second Amendment, go to armgeo.org and join. Membership is $35 a year. Additionally, if you go to armgeo.org slash endorsement, you’re going to see our voter guide for 2024. This is going to have all of our endorsements on there. It’s going to have how we feel on the ballot measures, like I already talked with Scott here. We are 100% no on Proposition KK and Proposition 127. We absolutely need to defeat those two propositions. So if you haven’t voted yet, go online, figure out who the pro-gun candidates are and what the pro-gun positions are, and turn your ballot in. You have exactly one week left to do it.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. And people got, I mean, they can also show their support. You guys got some pretty cool T-shirts, hats, things like that in a store people can buy, right?
SPEAKER 16 :
Absolutely. We do have a gear store. We’re currently restocking the gear store at the moment. So we’re going to go ahead and get that up and running here probably after the election. But definitely go to rmgo.org. We have a couple pieces of gear left. You can buy something there. You can become a member. And if you become a member, you’ll get on our email list and we’ll send you constant updates of everything.
SPEAKER 08 :
colorado when it comes to the second amendment yeah and i’ll tell you folks every member’s money helps all right and again these guys spend a lot of money helping us fighting the battles that we can’t fight so to speak i mean all of us can’t be at the legislature and all these meetings and all the different things they have to do attorneys and legal fees and all that So here we’ve got someone that is on the forefront of this and on the fighting line, so to speak, for us. So please, please, please become a member of our MGO and give them all support. And as Ian has said, and I’m going to say. Folks, you’ve got to get out and vote. I’ve talked to so many people who say, well, there’s no way we can win this. There’s no way. My vote’s not going to matter. You know, they’re going to cheat, so it doesn’t matter. Look, we’ve got to vote, and we’ve got to have these separate conversations with people that aren’t, as I said, hunters and sportsmen and maybe gun owners and shooters just to educate them. And I hate to use that sometimes, Ian, because it sounds like maybe you’re talking down to somebody, but it’s not because there’s so many people – I mean, just about the mountain lion thing real quick. You know, I’ve talked to a lot of people. They didn’t know that as hunters, we had to take an online course before we could get a mountain lion tag. You know, they didn’t know there was quotas that, you know, once those quotas are met, then you can’t hunt in that unit. So, I mean, there’s a lot to this that just is not shown in the current commercials playing right now. And the way the ballots worded for trophy hunting is just so misleading, man.
SPEAKER 16 :
Oh, I agree. I agree 100%. So, yep. I mean, really, the only thing I have left to say is what I’ve been saying this whole interview. Get out and vote. I mean, we really don’t know what the 2025 legislative session is going to look like until we get out there and we vote, until we see how this election turns out. So if you don’t want… a legislative session with 11 gun control bills like we saw in 2024 then get out there get off the couch go vote and make sure we send these people a message they won’t forget well said well and thanks so much bud we’ll stay in touch and uh continue to keep everybody updated uh as we progress through all this so thanks for your time of course thank you sir all right thank you thanks for being with us today hope you have a great rest of your weekend
SPEAKER 17 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
