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In this episode of The Kim Munson Show, we delve into the complex dynamics of the Battle of Gettysburg with esteemed guest Dennis Bush. Journey through history as we explore how leadership, strategy, and sheer determination shaped one of the most pivotal battles in American history. As Dennis Bush sheds light on the military tactics employed and the political undercurrents that defined this era, listeners will gain a comprehensive understanding of a conflict that continues to resonate today.
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It’s the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
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The socialization of transportation, education, energy, housing, and water, what it means is that government controls it through rules and regulations.
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The latest in politics and world affairs.
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Under this guise of bipartisanship and nonpartisanship, it’s actually tapping down the truth.
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Today’s current opinions and ideas.
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On an equal field in the battle of ideas, mistruths and misconceptions is getting us into a world of hurt.
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Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
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Indeed, and welcome to the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for joining us. You’re treasured, you’re valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history, and I am so grateful for the people I work with. That’s producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. The show comes to you because of our great sponsors, and thank you to Laramie Energy and Karis Oil & Gas for their gold sponsorship of the show. It is reliable, efficient, affordable, and abundant energy sources that powers our lives and fuels our hopes and dreams. We are pre-recording these shows for Independence Day week. I’ve decided it’s a week and not just a day. And with very special guests. And in studio with me is Dennis Bush. And actually, you’re going to be in for a treat. We pre-recorded America’s Veterans Stories show for this Sunday. that will broadcast but in talking with dennis and that that show is regarding the real heroes of omaha beach which was d-day uh december 6 1944 and uh he said well i you Did a lot of studying on the Civil War, and I said, what about the Battle of Gettysburg? Because the Battle of Gettysburg was fought July 1 through July 3, 1863. He said, I can do that. Dennis Bush, welcome. It’s great to have you here.
SPEAKER 04 :
My pleasure.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, where should we start regarding the Battle of Gettysburg?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I always start usually when talking just history in general. And when teaching or speaking about history, I always make it a point to be as accurate and as factual as possible. History, though, is not an exact science. But then as we have painfully learned recently, science is not an exact science. The important thing about history is to learn from it, and you can’t if it is embellished or distorted in any way. It has to be as factual as much as possible to ascertain what it was, the good, the bad, and even the ugly. Playing on an old Western fondant. Then and only then can we adjust to avoid past failures and mistakes and take full advantages of past successes. Revised or altered history does us all a great disservice. That’s my commercial.
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Well, you’re absolutely right.
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There seems to be considerable discourse on what caused the Civil War or war between the states, depending upon what part of the country you’re from. The actual cause or catalyst was the inauguration of Abraham Lincoln as President of the United States, the first Republican. This precipitated the secession from the Union of 11 southern states over the next several months because they feared that the Republican Party would abolish slavery. which actually was the end result when the 13th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified on 6 December 1865. But in 1861, the platform of the Republican Party went only so far as to stop the spread of slavery into the new Western states which became Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, and Nevada. Imagine all of those as slave states. The Southern aristocracy, or the privileged class, believed that if slavery was not allowed to spread into the new states, it would die. They were probably right in that assessment, but their actions of secession precipitated the bloodiest war in American history. On paper, the war should have been over quickly because of the industrial preponderance and much greater population of the North. One of the primary reasons why it lasted so long was the fact that in the beginning, the South had better generals. In fact- Why was that? Well, probably heritage. Almost all the really big generals in the Civil War went to West Point. Both sides. So they were friends across the battlefield. Isn’t that amazing? Yeah. But the tradition of the South was the chivalrous cavalry. I mean, that’s why there were a bunch of better cavalry soldiers as well in the beginning, not at the end, but in the beginning of the war. And it’s just probably the tradition of military background that these guys served. The Union appointed most of its generals politically, and it took several years before they got rid of them. And good generals like Grant and Sherman and Sherrod and all the streets that are named in Denver, Logan.
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For now.
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Yeah, yeah. Waiting for them to change those. But those are all the great Union generals are all those streets that come off Broadway.
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because this was really frustrating for Lincoln, those political generals. It was tough, wasn’t it?
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yeah. He anguished over it because he knew he was not a professional soldier, but he actually was as good a soldier as anybody that was in the war. His secretary of war, Stanton, actually hated him in the beginning until he really began to realize it. that Lincoln was a genius. Because they thought he was just a country bumpkin. Country bumpkin. Below them, right? Like kind of where I came from, yeah. And me too. But that was, it just took time for these guys to develop. Grant was not even in the army when the Civil War broke out. He’d been kind of cashiered as a drunk. And so he begged and was given a regiment of troops in Illinois, and then he worked his way on up through the western part of the war. He’s not even present in Gettysburg. Because Gettysburg was 1863. Actually, at the same time, Grant was sieging the city of Vicksburg. Really? And they capitulated on the 3rd.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, when we were preparing for this, you said there was something else that was happening during that time.
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And so all of his great generals, all those great generals, Logan, Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, were in the West. And it took another year or so before they all migrated east. And that’s when the war really turned.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Well, and you said in your notes that on paper the war should have been over quickly, correct?
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, yeah. You look at the industrial part of the country was in the north. The south was still very agrarian. Actually, slavery crippled them. in terms of as an economy because they were stuck in this, you know, archaic farming system and never developed. And this really hurt them during the war. They didn’t have the industrial, you know, you need industry to support a war. You got to make cannons, you got to make cannonballs, you got to make bullets and rifles. And they never really had anything like the Union did.
SPEAKER 03 :
I hadn’t really thought about it, that slavery had just crippled them. Oh, yeah. That’s so interesting. So what’s the next thing we need to know?
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Well, fortunately, an army led by poor leadership going up against a much smaller army led to a brutal war, the deadliest our country has ever endured. And it pitted… Many instances of brother against brother. Unbelievable. And father against son. It’s sad, right? It is sad. Gettysburg is probably the most important battle in American history with the possible exception of Yorktown. Okay. Because its outcome would have such a drastic impact on America forever. Would we be one powerful nation or two dysfunctional ones? That was the question. The Battle of Gettysburg pitted the two major armies of that war, the Southern Army of Northern Virginia, commanded by General Robert E. Lee, and against the Union’s Army of the Potomac, commanded by Major General George Meade. And that’s one of the misnomers. Most people would think it was Grant, but like I said, Grant at that time was out west. It began as the Battle of Chancellorsville ended once more in Union defeat on 6 May 1863. Union General Joseph Hooker, the latest Union commander of that army, and yes, that’s where that notorious name comes from. I don’t know about the notorious name. What do you call prostitutes?
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Really?
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Yeah. You could say he kind of ran a loose camp.
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Okay.
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I see. It’s funny that that’s true, but that’s where it supposedly is derived. Huh. He was completely out-generaled by Lee in that battle.
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And if you study that battle— He wasn’t paying attention to what he needed to.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and they flanked him and just wiped him up. Okay. I can honestly say that Lee was one of the greatest generals this country has ever produced, and yet I can still despise the cause for which he fought. There is no doubt of his greatness as a military commander. I can only think of one contemporary, and that would be Dwight Eisenhower. But it’s a subject that I could debate for hours.
SPEAKER 03 :
But somebody would need to know what they’re talking about if they were going to debate you on that.
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Well, maybe not. Anyway, the leadership of the Confederacy knew that the South could not win a protracted war. And so they decided to capitalize on the demoralizing victory over its foe. They strategized to end the war as quickly as possible by sending the Army of Northern Virginia on its second invasion of the North. Its intended mission was to capture Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, the capital of that state, and or Philadelphia. There was also an alternate strategy to lure the Union Army of the Potomac into a battle, defeat it once more, and then march on Washington. That would force the end of the war.
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So that was their plan.
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Yeah. So it was a strategy for all the marbles. And Lee carried with him a letter that basically asked the Union to end the war. And that he was going to deliver it personally to Lincoln. That was the end game of this invasion. Wow.
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Wow. Well, I think this is a spot that would be a good place for a break. And so let’s do that. Before we do that, though, I did want to mention the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance team. Roger has been in business for 47 years, taking care of his family, giving back to his community and, of course, taking care of his clients. And they do complimentary appointments. There’s obviously no cost to that, to sit down so that you can understand your insurance coverage. And that is so, so important in this day and age that we live in. So reach out to them at 303-795-8855 for more information. Like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan team is there.
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Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. This week of Independence Day week, we are pre-recording these shows with great guests. And actually, I interviewed Dennis Bush because he has a book that is being released this week of Independence Day week regarding Omaha Beach. And he said, The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. I can’t wait to get that book, Dennis Bush, because, and you said it’s part of a trilogy. So we’ll just tease that just a little. Book one of a trilogy. And and but then as we were talking, he said that he’d studied the Civil War for many, many years. And the Battle of Gettysburg was fought July 1 to July 3 in 1863. I said, how about let’s record something on Gettysburg. And so that’s what we’re doing. So you had said before we went to break that the. Confederate Army had a strategy. They were going to do these different attacks and that Lee actually had a letter of surrender that he wanted to personally give to Lincoln. So what’s going on at this time?
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Well, they’re going north and they’re going after, getting deep into Pennsylvania. And basically that was to try and lure the Union Army up to try to stop them. But before we get into the battle, there are two very important factors that must be taken into account. The first was that the Union Army, licking its wounds again after Chancellorsville, was slow to respond to Lee’s bold end run. Upon learning this, Lincoln had enough and fired him and replaced Hooker with General Gordon Meade, the V or V Corps commander. So the Union Army would have a new commander going in to this major battle. And he had no idea as to where his enemy was when he took command of the seven infantry and one cavalry corps consisting of around 100,000 men. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. The other factor was that Lee’s most trusted and capable subordinate, General Thomas Stonewall Jackson, had been wounded in the hand and arm in the aftermath of Chancellorsville by friendly fire. Yeah, his own men shot him. Not on purpose? No, he was out reconnoitering, and they thought it was union guys. Today, he would most likely have survived his wounds, but not in 1863, when medicine was still in the Stone Ages.
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So it’s probably infection?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, he died four days later on 10 May from amputation complications that led to pneumonia. Yeah, so pneumonia actually killed him. It prompted Lee to say before his death, Jackson may have lost his left hand, but I have lost my right. Oh, my God. prophetic. The great loss of leadership led Lee to reorganize the structure of his 72,000-man army going into the battle, which is never a good thing. He divided his two large infantry corps into three, commanded by Lieutenant General James Longstreet, 1st Corps, and he was the holdover, and Lieutenant General Richard S. Ewell, that was 2nd Corps, and Lieutenant General A.P. Hill, 3rd Corps. Both generals, Ewell and Hill, who had formerly reported to Jackson as division commanders, were now corps commanders. So both armies went into their most critical battle with major upheaval and questions in leadership. And it did have a major impact on the outcome. How so? We’ll see.
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Okay.
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I’ll tell you as we go. To make matters worse for Lee was the fact that the Confederate Cavalry Corps, led by the dashing Major General Jeb Stuart, went off on its own to wreak havoc and get headlines in the rear. As such, he left Lee blind as to the whereabouts of the Union Army. When they were finally located in hot pursuit, Lee was vulnerable of being defeated piecemeal. His army was strung out between Chambersburg, which was 28 miles due west of Gettysburg, and Harrisburg, which is 30 miles north-northeast of Gettysburg. So you can imagine his entire army is in that area. But that just opens them up for being defeated in pieces. And so that was not a good thing. It follows, so Lee commanded his forces, once he found where the Union was in pursuit, to consolidate on a town in southern Pennsylvania, a strategic town of the many roads leading in and because of all the roads leading in and out, and it was Gettysburg. He hoped he could consolidate his army there before the Yankees got there. It was a race. At any rate, the place for the battle had been determined. Now it was just a matter of time.
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So I imagine then the Union scouts are probably watching this. They know where he’s at then? Yes, no?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, that’s next. I’ll tell you how they come to finish. It’s kind of interesting. The first Confederate troops to arrive was Heath Division of Third Corps on 1 July 1863, who was actually headed for Gettysburg anyway because there was a shoe factory there. Most of the poorly equipped Confederate soldiers were barefoot.
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I can’t even imagine.
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Their uniforms were in tatters.
SPEAKER 03 :
But that’s kind of like Washington at— Valley Forge, yeah. Yeah.
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But anyway, he expected— At least this was summer. It was cold during— Yeah, that’s one to my advantage. Actually, it was hot. He expected to find the town defenseless, but ran into a Union cavalry division under Brigadier General John Buford, who was scouting to locate the Confederate Army. Okay. Okay.
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So it begins just very small forces.
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Sporadically, yes, because both armies are trying to get to this point, and as they join the battle, it sways back and forth in its first day because first you’ve got a division of Union cavalry holding off an infantry division, which is much larger. and then they get a corps to support them, and then the Confederacy gets a corps to support them. And by then, two large Confederate corps also joined the fray from the north and northwest. An intense battle commenced. Consisting of 22,000 Union troops versus 27,000 Confederates. Now remember, the Army of the Potomac, the Union Army, is 100,000. So the rest of these guys are strung out to the south trying to get to Gettysburg. 27,000 Confederates when their army was 72,000. So they’re not consolidated. This actually started off as a small battle that just got bigger and bigger and bigger as the day wore on.
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Wow.
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It was very unusual for the rebels to outnumber their enemy. They were used to being outnumbered. In this case, they were not, and it made a difference.
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So where is Lee at this time?
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He is still back. He has not gotten to the battlefield yet. And he is trying to move the logistics to get the people to the battlefront. He does get to Gettysburg on day one. Meade does not. He doesn’t come until almost midnight. But anyway… The Confederate troops prevailed and forced the Union soldiers to retreat back through Gettysburg, but fortuitously up onto a ridge of hills to the southeast of town. So ended the first day of battle, the Confederacy having whipped their enemy once again, but they failed to rout them, undoubtedly because of the timid leadership of General Huell, one of the new corps commanders, right? Stonewall undoubtedly would have continued to press the attack and probably would have succeeded in pushing the Yankees off the high ground. At that time, their hold there was tenuous at best. If that had happened, then the inevitable battle certainly would have been fought elsewhere and might have turned out quite differently.
SPEAKER 03 :
So, Dennis, as a layperson, I’ve got to think that As you say, Jackson would have realized that it’s so difficult to take high ground. And so would have pushed them on off of there. Why don’t you think that they did that?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, he was new to command. And he had won a victory. I mean, he had pushed the Yankees out of the town. And frankly, he got cold feet. This is one of the real contentious issues coming from the battle from a military strategy point, is why didn’t Ewell take the high ground when he could have?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. And see, the high ground is critical in those days.
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Right.
SPEAKER 04 :
It still is.
SPEAKER 03 :
It still is, yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
But the high ground today is an aircraft. Right. Okay. It eliminates the ground itself. But these were high hills to attack. You would need a three-to-one advantage if you were really going to be successful, and they were under-advantaged. I mean, they were 72,000 against 100,000 when the day ended. So this was really a tough, tough, tough challenge for the Confederacy.
SPEAKER 03 :
Gosh, this is absolutely fascinating. We’ve got a couple of minutes left in this segment, or we can go to break and then come back. What do you think?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I’ve got one more little short bit here to finish the day. As night fell, the remnants of the Union forces were entrenched overlooking the Confederate Army. Meade arrived late that night at several other corps of his army. he made the decision to go on the defensive and dig in. So Lee would have to shove them off the heights. By morning, a very strong Union line of seven infantry corps comprised a fishhook-like formation linking Culp’s Hill to Cemetery Hill to Cemetery Ridge and terminating just north of Little Round Top. The Union Army owned the high ground, except for two hills on the southern flank.
SPEAKER 03 :
But that probably wouldn’t matter that much, would it? Oh, they did. It did. Okay. This is so fascinating. And we’re pre-recording these shows for Independence Day week. And a couple of things I did want to mention. Check out the USMC Memorial Foundation’s website. They are going to be celebrating the 47th anniversary of of the the memorial and you can go ahead and get tickets now by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org it looks like it’s going to be a great event and then also take a look at the center for american values website they’re doing such great work honoring our medal of honor recipients putting together educational programs. Their On Value series is just great. And check all that out. A good thing to do this week during Independence Day week, that website is AmericanValuesCenter.org. That’s AmericanValuesCenter.org. And we have wonderful sponsors, and one of those is Karen Levine.
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SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter and you can email me at Kim at Kim Munson dot com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea. We’ll be right back. In studio with me is Dennis Bush, and got to know him, I’m very excited, we’ll be broadcasting his interview about D-Day on Sunday. And he’s an author, obviously. He’s also a veteran, United States Air Force, served during the Vietnam War, so thank you for my freedom. I really appreciate it. I know.
SPEAKER 04 :
In the end, it was all for nothing.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that’s why we are battling in this battle, well, the Vietnam War, yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
I lost 19 friends. I mean, when you go to the military academy, you’re gonna have a lot of casualties. I can’t imagine how many of my contemporaries at West Point died in that war. Probably three or four times that.
SPEAKER 03 :
This is we were talking during the break. This is these are people’s husbands and sons and brothers. And we have to realize if we are going to put our our blood and treasure on the line, we need to make sure that we’re in it to win it and not be messing around. OK, let’s get back to the Civil War Battle of Gettysburg, day two and three. So what happens on day two?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, on the morning of the 2nd of July, two powerful armies faced one another, patiently waiting for the other to either flinch or take the initiative. Longstreet, General Longstreet, was one of Lee’s key subordinates. met up with Lee and expressed his opinion that the right tactics to employ would be to move their entire army around the Union left flank and find a suitable defensive position that was between the Union army and Washington DC. Then Meade would be forced to attack them as they were forced at Fredericksburg. and more than likely with similar results. That would effectively end the war. But Lee was aghast and said that the Union Army was there and he would attack them there unless they were foolish enough to attack him, which they weren’t. In hindsight, Lee was clearly wrong in this decision and should have listened to his defensive master strategist. In his defense, it was the first battle without his primary tactician, Stonewall, and we can debate all evening what his suggestion would have been. Lee’s plan was to launch a two-pronged assault on the Union flanks, the ends of the line, and attack from the side or the rear. The experienced divisions of General John Bell Hood and Lafayette McClaws of Longstreet’s Corps, followed by Major General Richard Anderson’s division of Hill’s Corps, was to lead the attack on the left flank of the Union lines. On the Union right, General Ewell’s second corps was to attack Culp’s Hill and Cemetery Hill when he heard gunfire from Longstreet’s assault. The attack did not start until late in the afternoon, as it took way too much time for Hood and McClaws to get into position. They were probably stalling, as both saw that the daunting attack they were ordered to make would be… When they finally did engage, it was hell on earth. The individual battles all across their lines became infamous on their own. The Peach Orchard, the Wheat Field, the Devil’s Den, and Little Round Top, one of that hills that I mentioned earlier. They were all notable for their sheer brutality and horrendous casualties suffered by both sides, including the irreplaceable General Hood. At the end of the day, the Union left was pushed back a few yards, but it did not waver and held firm. As a matter of fact, their lines were extended to now include a little round top, a hill. On the right flank, Yule did very little as he misunderstood Lee’s orders and so believed that his primary mission was to create a feint, a false attack, a faux attack.
SPEAKER 03 :
How could he get that wrong?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, let me explain that. To prevent Meade from shifting troops from his right flank to his left flank. That’s what he thought he was supposed to be. See, Lee’s leadership style was unlike a demonstrative general like Patton. No, he was very low-key and made suggestions rather than direct orders. But subordinates should make no mistake, they were orders. Lee told Ewell to press the attack if practicable, when what he meant was to press the attack with the full weight of his forces. So Ewell just, again, not working with Lee directly. Didn’t understand it. Did not understand the style of leadership that Lee exemplified. I love that style because it’s so much more effective than autocratic style. But anyway, the second day ended with both sides licking their wounds, and each army was virtually in the same position as they were at the start of the day.
SPEAKER 03 :
But lots of dead and wounded.
SPEAKER 04 :
Lots of dead.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. Okay, day three.
SPEAKER 04 :
Two days of intense fighting, and not only resulted in significant casualties on both sides, Longstreet again approached Lee, suggesting his plan to move around the Union left flank was still available, and of course the Confederate army had the advantage. But Lee once again rebuffed his subordinate and proceeded to reveal his own plan to his most trusted general. Now that Jackson was dead, It was based on the fact that Pickett’s division of Longstreet’s Corps had arrived late on the second day and thus was fresh and unbloodied. They were to attack the Union Center, net marked by the infamous Copse of Trees, which is a small grove. Also included in this bold assault into the strength of the enemy lines were six brigades from Pettigrew’s and Trimble’s division of Hill’s Corps. In total, some 12,000 men made this assault. Though most of three divisions comprised the attack, it was forever labeled Pickett’s Charge, an epithet that dogged the man for the rest of his life. He was blamed for the failure at Gettysburg in the South.
SPEAKER 03 :
Gosh, Dennis. And so Lee has a reputation as a great general, but it seems to me like that didn’t make sense. And it seems to me like it would have made sense to get in between the Union Army and Washington, D.C.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes, it did. But the thing was, Stonewall was the tactician. Lee was the commander. Just like Eisenhower was the commander. And he had great subordinates who were the attackers. And there’s a difference in the type of general that you have at the top and at the next level. Got it. And that’s really what it boils down to.
SPEAKER 03 :
And because Jackson was gone, Lee didn’t—he leaned on him. And so when this other general comes in and recommends it—and, of course, there’s a lot going on in Lee’s brain at that time, yes? Yes.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, I think he was tired of the death and he wanted to end the war. And he thought that his strategy would do that. He believed in his army because they had won virtually every battle in the East. Okay. And he just believed so much that his men could do the impossible that that’s what he asked them to do.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. So that’s day three.
SPEAKER 04 :
This is day three. This is the great charge. The assault was to be prefaced by fire from something like 160 cannons, the largest bombardment ever on North American soil. In spite of all that, Longstreet was so convinced that the attack across almost a mile of open fields would fail that he could not even give Pickett the order to charge. He simply nodded. In the end, he was right. The Confederate troops were valiant and advanced under intense Union cannon fire, and once they got closer, intense rifle fire. At one point, they even buckled the Union line, but Meade poured in reinforcements and retook the ground given. This moment was later labeled the high mark of the Confederacy. It was devastating as nearly half of the rebels were unable to make it back to their lines. As the wreckage of three divisions retreated, Lee approached General Pickett and said, General Pickett, sir, see to your division. The totally demoralized commander responded with a heavy Virginia accent, General Lee, I have no division. That in essence summed up the results of the Battle of Gettysburg. The next day, Lee led his tattered, demoralized, and crippled army back across the Potomac. General Meade elected to hold his position and let the rebels retreat successfully. He therefore forfeited an enormous opportunity. He had Lee’s army on the wrong side of the Potomac and on the move. If he had pursued and attacked his beaten foe, the war might have ended on that date. But he didn’t, and the war went on for two more bloody years. When Lincoln heard the news, he was beside himself. So during the battle, both sides had an opportunity to end the war, and both failed to do what was necessary.
SPEAKER 03 :
Do you think that Lincoln was beside himself because he recognized that opportunity was lost? Oh, yeah. He just went off.
SPEAKER 04 :
I mean, this is, you know, like I said, he spent most of his time down at the Department of War because they had telegraph. The most common communication back then was telegraph. And he could listen to the telegraph, the messages coming in and keep abreast of it. And this is where Stanton really began to realize how smart Lincoln was because he understood better than a lot of the generals what they needed to do. Yeah.
SPEAKER 03 :
That is so fascinating. Dennis Bush, thank you for sharing this with us. And again, we are pre-recording these shows because it is Independence Day week. And the Battle of Gettysburg, though, was fought July 1 through July 3, 1863. We get to do this because of our sponsors. One of those is John Boson with Boson Law.
SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
You’d like to get in touch with one of the sponsors of The Kim Munson Show, but you can’t remember their phone contact or website information. Find a full list of advertising partners on Kim’s website, kimmunson.com. That’s Kim, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 09 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. And you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. We are pre-recording for this week. A very special guest in studio with me right now is Dennis Bush. He is the author of a book that is being released this Independence Day week, and that is The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. I can’t wait to get the book. I can’t either. But we’re talking about the Battle of Gettysburg that was fought during the Civil War, July 1 through July 3, 1863. Lee knows he is defeated, demoralized. So what happens in the aftermath?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, the toll of the battle is appalling. The Union casualties numbered over 23,000. 3,155 were killed outright, 14,531 were wounded, and 5,369 were captured or missing. The Confederate casualties are not as well documented. The best estimate is also just over 23,000 casualties, 4,708 dead, 12,693 wounded, and 5,830 captured or missing. Perhaps worse, nearly a third of Lee’s general officers were killed, wounded, or captured. This amounts to the bloodiest three days in American history. It sounds horrendous, but it was actually much worse. Though estimates are undocumented, perhaps half or more of the 27,000 wounded probably succumbed within the next few weeks because of the lack of medical knowledge back then. Of those who didn’t die, a great many of them were maimed for life with the loss of at least one limb. So the most effective weapon of the battle was the surgeon’s bloody saws. But that is the true cost of liberty. Lost in most statistics was the cost in horses, as almost 5,000 were killed during the course of the battle. It has been estimated that for every soldier, 200 horses were required to support them. Equipment, food, you know, there was large wagon trains that followed every army, and it took lots of horses. And it’s an interesting study about what happened to the horses. But the aftermath here, let’s go. On the afternoon of 19 November, 1863, a ceremony was held in Gettysburg to commemorate the military cemetery there. The principal speaker was Edward Everett, who droned on for two hours. Lincoln, who was invited to attend the ceremony almost as an afterthought, then rose to deliver the requested short remarks. It was over so fast that most in attendance didn’t even hear his words. Lincoln thought that his speech was a total failure. It was days later and after his speech was widely publicized did he and the rest of the world realized the greatness of his short remarks. Short, succinct, to the salient point, and from the heart of a nation in parallel. Four score and seven years ago, our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war testing whether that nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who have here gave their lives that the nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But in the larger sense, we cannot dedicate We cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground. The brave men living and dead who struggled here have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the living, rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us, that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to the cause for which they gave their last full measure of devotion. that we here highly resolve that these dead men shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth. Those words mean and apply as much now as they did in 1863. Vote. The battle has been documented by literally thousands of books. Unfortunately, most of them are not very well written. But there are some great authors who are worth reading about Gettysburg. Their names are Bruce Catton, Shelby Foote, and Michael Schera. In addition, there are two great movies you might get hold of and watch. The best is titled Gettysburg, made in 1993, and you can find it online. It was panned by film critics, but what do they know about history? It is an accurate adaptation of Michael Shera’s masterpiece, Killer Angels. I also strongly recommend Glory. This star-studded production, released in 1989, tells the story of the 54th Massachusetts Regiment, one of the first African American units to serve in the Union Army. I read somewhere that nearly 150,000 African Americans served in the Union Army, most of them former slaves. If you happen to find yourself in the middle of Pennsylvania, dedicate an entire day to visit the battlefield. You will find it well worth your time. The Park Service has done a marvelous job of preserving and presenting the battle as they have most of the others. When you are there, you can literally feel the souls of the men who perished there. It is truly a sacred place.
SPEAKER 03 :
Dennis Bush, I totally agree. I’ve only been to Gettysburg once and not enough time was driving from New York to Kansas City at the time. But to your point, you can feel it. You can feel it when you’re there and it does feel like sacred ground.
SPEAKER 04 :
But I recommend you read a bit about it before you go because you’re going to see this place called the Peach Orchard. Well, if you don’t know that the Peach Orchard said you could walk from one end to the other and never step on the ground but just the bodies of dead men.
SPEAKER 03 :
And again, this is husbands and sons and brothers and fathers on each of these wars. And what a battle. But the question ultimately was this vision of the Declaration. Are all men created equal? As Calvin Coolidge said, if all men are created equal, then that is final. And they really did.
SPEAKER 04 :
put their lives on the line to ask that question and to answer that question dennis bush well i think the misnomer is the term men it actually is the species not the sex it includes women yes It was never inferred in all this documentation that women were equal to men, but the fact of the matter is they were probably, even during the Revolutionary period, more powerful than the men.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, we’ve got a few minutes. How so? How would you say that?
SPEAKER 04 :
They ran it from the rear, behind, in the back. But they were certainly—I mean, they were totally influential on there. If you really want to read about—I think it’s Adam’s wife— How much they were involved in everything. And they did it through their husbands because of the stigma of being female. Right. But the fact of the matter is, you know, it’s still true today. Women end up running everything.
SPEAKER 03 :
You heard it here first on the Kim Munson Show. Dennis, we have just a couple of minutes left, and let’s do a teaser for our America’s Veterans Story show that will be on Sunday the 7th regarding your book, The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. I’ve been thinking about that interview, sharing some tidbits about that interview where you said there’s 12 men that made a difference on that battle. I find it fascinating.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, actually, I started off to write, I wrote actually two screenplays, thinking that if I sold a book, I would sell a million. Or if I was good, I sold a million copies. If you make a good movie, you get 25 to 50 million people watching it. And I really was inspired to try to get the story of Omaha Beach to as many people as possible. It’s part of our heritage. So anyway, I started, after failing to find any opportunity to press forward with a screenplay, I decided to write, after my wife passed away, the book about Omaha Beach. Well, after I got up to 260-some pages, I mean 660-some pages, I realized that it was way too big, so I decided to break it into a trilogy. And the battle actually breaks in naturally into three parts. The eastern half of Omaha Beach, which was in command or under the responsibility of the 1st Infantry Division, which is book one. Book two is about the western half of Omaha Beach, which was under the command of the 29th Infantry Division. But fortuitously, also on that end of the beach were a battalion plus two companies of rangers. And they ended up making a huge difference in the battle. The third book, is about Pointe du Hoc, where three companies of Army Rangers assaulted 100-foot-high cliffs to take out six guns that could hit either Omaha or Utah beaches and any of the ships in the channel. And they sent these guys up to make sure they were taken out.
SPEAKER 03 :
It’s remarkable. And so the first book is out now, and people can buy it where?
SPEAKER 04 :
Just go on Amazon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay, and that’s The Real Heroes of Omaha Beach. Dennis Bush, thank you so much. This has been so fascinating about the Battle of Gettysburg. You’re welcome. Thank you. Our quote for the end of the show, I went to Robert E. Lee. He said this. He said, a nation which does not remember what it was yesterday does not know where it is today. So, my friends, today be grateful. Read great books. Think good thoughts. Listen to beautiful music. Communicate and listen well. Live honestly and authentically. Strive for high ideals. And like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you, and God bless America.
SPEAKER 17 :
Wandering out into this great unknown And I don’t want no one to cry But tell them if I don’t survive I was born
SPEAKER 05 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
SPEAKER 12 :
It’s the Kim Munson Show, analyzing the most important stories.
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The socialization of transportation, education, energy, housing, and water, what it means is that government controls it through rules and regulations.
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The latest in politics and world affairs.
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Under this guise of bipartisanship and nonpartisanship, it’s actually tapping down the truth.
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Today’s Current Opinions and Ideas.
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On an equal field in the battle of ideas, mistruths and misconceptions is getting us into a world of hurt.
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Is it freedom or is it force? Let’s have a conversation.
SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome to our number two of the Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much for listening. You’re each treasured, you’re valued, you have purpose. Today, strive for excellence, take care of your heart, your soul, your mind, and your body. My friends, we were made for this moment in history. And thank you to the team I get to work with, amazing people, producer Joe, Luke, Rachel, Zach, Echo, Charlie, and all the people here at Crawford Broadcasting. Check out my website, that is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com, so KimMunson.com. And sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You’ll get first look at our upcoming guests as well as our most recent essays. You can email me at kim at kimmunson.com. And thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. And we are pre-recording these shows, which we’ll be broadcasting the week, obviously, of Independence Day week. And so pleased to have on the line with me Stan Everett. And he has done so much, particularly in northern Colorado, regarding helping people understand our founding documents. He and his family have been in the development business for many years. Stan Everett, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 07 :
Hi, Kim. Thank you.
SPEAKER 03 :
And first thing, let’s just mention the Legacy Project. This is something that you started a number of years ago, and it’s so important. So tell our listeners a little bit about that.
SPEAKER 07 :
Started it about 15 years ago, and it’s a program that we have expanded quite a bit. We’ve got a few thousand people who have gone through the lessons at this point. I just finished a lesson two days ago, in fact, with a group in Denver that is really something that’s fascinating. But as you know, we kind of walk through the founding documents in a way that is different than most American history is taught. We don’t really talk about the people very much. We don’t talk about military battles or strategies. We basically talk about the principles and that the nation was founded upon, which would be the Declaration of Independence that lists these principles. And then how does the founding generation then order those principles into a government, into an economy? And then how do those principles exhibit and express themselves into culture? So those lessons are typically an hour and a half each. We are now meeting more frequently on a five-week session. We’ve also done six-month sessions with one meeting a month instead of five weeks in a row, which is what we’re doing more frequently now. But been very impactful. It’s the legacy project because we’re really using history to teach legacy. To my thinking, the legacy of what we have received is important and critical to the survival of the nation. But at the same time, you can use that model of a legacy that we are living in now in order for people to recognize that their lives individually and collectively can also be a legacy. And so they start to look at the value of a legacy in their lives. And that’s really the most important part of the program as far as I’m concerned.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, it’s such an important program. It normally has been guys. Is it still all guys, or have you branched out on that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, on the short form, the five-week program, then we don’t… We’re really not narrowing it down to gender or age. We’re teaching… people that are in high school, we’re teaching people in business, in education, all sorts of different cross sections of our society. The longer form is more towards Okay.
SPEAKER 03 :
And I think that that’s important. As I’ve seen what’s been happening over all these years, I think that it is important for men to come together and talk about these important principles. And women, I think it’s important for them to come together as well. But I really want to acknowledge that. have been kind of at the bottom of the food chain, if you will, on many things out there. So I really love the idea of men coming together to talk about these important issues, and that’s on your longer form. How can people get more information about the Legacy Project, Stan Everett?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, we still don’t have a website, and we don’t intend to have one. As I’ve described to you, our history includes an observation by Alexis de Tocqueville about our country. And one of the things that he has written about in his Democracy in America volumes is how people in America don’t have to have an organization in order to do things. They’ll build schools, they’ll create missionaries that do all sorts of things that are basically just people getting together and deciding to do something. And it doesn’t require a permit. It doesn’t require somebody from the government sitting in on meetings. So I’m trying to model to these folks that I deal with that, you know, you don’t have to create a nonprofit or you don’t have to get into a corporate setting to just go out and meet with people and be with people and influence people. And so I’m kind of resistant to getting too formalized. But I think it’s just something that is part of the legacy that we’re trying to impart is, you know, you can do stuff without having to necessarily have to formalize it.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And is there a way if somebody wants to pursue trying to be part of one of these groups, is there a way to connect with you?
SPEAKER 07 :
Sure. Yeah. My email is Stan. S-T-A-N at EverettCompanies.com. E-V-E-R-I-T-T-C-O-M-P-A-N-I-E-S.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And we’re talking with Stan Everett. And we have such important discussions with him regarding these founding principles. And we need to be dusting them off and understanding them. Because I really think that we are in our third founding of our country at this particular point in time. And it really is up to us to not squander what has been given to us. And so first and foremost, we need to understand these principles. And we get to do all this because of our wonderful sponsors. And one of those is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance Team. And Roger knows that life can be challenging and that there are a lot of unknowns that can keep you up at night. And so that’s why the Roger Mangan team can help with life insurance and health insurance needs to replace lost income. So call the Roger Mangan team now at 303-795-8855 for a complimentary appointment. Like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan insurance team is there. And I am blessed to work with amazing people as sponsors, partners of the show. And one of those is the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance team. So this week of Thanksgiving, we are rebroadcasting some of our great evergreen shows. But I’ve got Roger in studio and we wanted to record something about Thanksgiving. And again, the blessings that… that we have as Americans are, they’re so amazing. But what’s your thoughts about Thanksgiving and blessings?
SPEAKER 14 :
Kim, I am very blessed, first of all, with a great family, great grandchildren, all of whom are here because of my great great grandfathers and folks that moved here from Sicily back in 1900 under duress to experience the American experience. And I am so grateful for the tenacity that they had to make their way by steerage across the Atlantic Ocean, a two and a half week trip, sleeping outside on the deck of a ship, And my grandfather was a single male. And when he got here, he was turned back because there was a quota for single Italian males at that time. So they sent him back. They said, you can return to the United States when you are married and have a child. And he did. He went back to actually Italy, not Sicily, and picked out my grandmother out of a group of eight women in a convent who were all orphans and he married the one he pointed to and they had my uncle frank and they came here in about 1903 so I’m thankful for this beautiful country, our Constitution, our forefathers who saw the potential. And that was a really slice of time in history where this American experience and experiment could have occurred. And it could have gone either way, right? Articles of Confederation, states giving up their rights to a central government which they despised because of the king back in the day. So when you think about what could have gone wrong that didn’t, thanks to our founding fathers, we should feel blessed. And we do. I do, for sure.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, I do as well. And Roger, I really think that we are in the third founding of our country. The first, obviously, was the Revolutionary War. And of course, then the Civil War, where we fought a war to determine if we really believe that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, then we can’t have one man be property of another. And so there was that founding. And then I think that we are in a time to, each of us, to engage in this battle of ideas that is occurring right now so that we can make sure that this great American idea is passed on to our children, our grandchildren, and our posterity.
SPEAKER 14 :
You know, let me react to that because I think all of us get so busy with life. Raising families, defining our job or our starting our business is we get so wrapped up in survival in this very complex digital society we live in today that we take our eye off the ball. And the ball is paying attention to those we elect and send to the state legislature, Congress, whatever your political affiliation be, are you really engaged in, and if you are, what’s the standard by which you determine your values? Your values have to tie into, hopefully, the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, rule of law, We have really ignored that, and I’m not blaming people. I had a professor in college at Cornell University one summer who really condemned people because all they worried about was their green lawns and taking care of their houses. And I said, hey, time out. Those people are the people that have made this country, and they are so busy with their life, and you’re a professional lawyer. He was a political science professor. So it’s like be nice to everybody out there because we’re all busy and elect those people who are really going to represent your values. And that’s I mean, that’s your job as a citizen to pay attention to who you vote for and send to whatever branch of government state or state.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and Roger, that is why we do the show. And I am so grateful for the Roger Mangan State Farm Insurance team for all that they do. Like a good neighbor, the Roger Mangan team is there.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter, and you can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice. We search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you shouldn’t have to force people to do it. I did want to say thank you to Laramie Energy and Karis Oil & Gas for their gold sponsorship of the show. It is reliable, efficient, affordable, and abundant energy that powers our lives, fuels our hopes and dreams, so that we can pursue our happiness, which is straight out of the Declaration of Independence. On the line with me is Stan Everett, and he is the founder of the Legacy Project, which a few thousand people have gone through the program, and it’s not really formal, but it’s to talk about these founding principles, So, Stan Everett, where do you begin regarding these founding principles as people are going through the Legacy Project?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, we start with a little bit of context. The important parts of understanding the history prior to the Declaration, and I really love the first few words of the Declaration, when in the course of human events. which to me signifies that these guys are looking backward from a premise or what has occurred, but they’re also describing that this course of human events, there must be a course that is setting the future of human events. So to me, the course setter is what they’re describing when you look at this from a theological or philosophical presentation. But The two biggest things in my mind, Tim, are the Great Awakening, which is the religious revival that has happened in the colonies. As well, there’s the Enlightenment or the Age of Reason, which is the philosophical format. So those two things really influenced the founders in their education as well as their exposure to these ideas and ideals that are articulated today. by fellows like John Locke or Witherspoon, a great pastor that wrote up and down, or I’m sorry, it was Whitfield, George Whitfield, that I think they say he preached 40,000 sermons in a couple of decades. I mean, you can’t even imagine it. That has to be like five or six a day. It’s amazing. So those influenced the creation of these principles. that are articulated in the Declaration. And I always split the Declaration into four parts. One is the premise, one is the principles, one is the grievances, and the last one is the Declaration itself. So that’s how we study it. And we study it by examining the words, their meanings, not in today’s context, but mostly in the context of the Founders’ past.
SPEAKER 03 :
There are those that have been taught that it was just a bunch of old guys, what does it really matter, and that they don’t realize how educated they were and how beautiful their writing was. I would challenge many of our young people as they’re getting out of school now to try to write a declaration like they did there. Those that have tried to really disparage the founders, I think people that buy into that have not really read the Declaration or the Constitution or any of those important documents.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, but that’s the strategy of discrediting the author in order to discredit the words. We don’t even talk about the authors. We talk about the ideas. And I think that really is a different approach to studying the Declaration. Every meeting that we have when we start this study, I can tell you, somebody in the participant group is wanting to bring up the founders and how hypocritical they were and how they were slave owners. And this was all written for their benefit, which, of course, we’re all flawed as human beings. So were the founders. But to claim that everybody else is a hypocrite and not recognize that you yourself are a hypocrite is hypocritical in and of itself. So I think we can pass through all of the negativity and start to examine the words and the ideas behind those words and what are the source of the ideas. Like I was talking about the Great Awakening as well as the Enlightenment era. Those were influential on these ideas that they put forth. that really changed the trajectory of human civilization. It wasn’t just a reorganization of society. It was a new civilization that they had created.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and those ideas, that civilization is under attack significantly in America today.
SPEAKER 07 :
And it always has been since the day it started.
SPEAKER 03 :
So the ink wasn’t even dry. Right.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, these are ideas that are so radical, but the simplicity and the magnificence of this piece of literature, people can skip over that. And when they do, then they can discredit it. But it’s profound. And I’ve read about a guy named Roger Shuman, who was one of the authors, in fact, with the Committee of Five. And he had lamented that They didn’t go into more detail. It’s almost too succinct and too clear that people skip over it and they don’t understand it because they take it for granted. So I think it’s important to study the words and then study the impacts of the words that have created this new societal organization as well as a trajectory of human civilization that is just profound, just incredibly profound.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, when they pin the words, Jefferson pinned the words, that all men are created equal with these rights from our creator of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, I think we do in some ways gloss over those words, but it’s some of the most radical words regarding a society that have ever been… ever been written and Calvin Coolidge is credited with saying if all men are created equal then that is final and there isn’t anything else and I love that yes well and it’s a creator equality it’s not another human being
SPEAKER 07 :
Lafayette, I’m sure you remember that from George Washington’s attaché. He went to Africa, maybe it was South America, and tried to start a new society. He didn’t use all men are created equal. He used all men are born equal. So that implies that the equality is then going to be derived from somebody else, a man or a human being. Whereas all men are created equal is profound in that my equality is coming from and I’m accountable to the creator who has given me that equality. And like you say, the next phrase is that I’m endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. Those things are so succinct that you can skip over it and you don’t recognize it. But this is a replacement phrase. with God or the creator of the king and the crown. So it becomes hard to argue against this theology. And the king of England didn’t argue any of this. He just said, well, we’re just going to win the war. We don’t care what you’re saying. But it changed so many things by looking to a higher power as opposed to another manpower.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, that is so profound. And in the next segment, in the Declaration of Independence, they refer to the Creator, I think, four different times. That’s my understanding. So I want to talk with you about that. I’m talking with Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. And he and I were chatting a few months ago, and he said, Kim, I really want to focus on the Declaration and what that means exactly. And so that’s why it’s such an honor to get to record this and broadcast this on July 4th. And we get to do that because we have amazing sponsors. And one of those is Lavaca Meat Company.
SPEAKER 09 :
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SPEAKER 10 :
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SPEAKER 13 :
Focused and wise marketing is essential for your success, especially during tough economic times. If you love the Kim Munson Show, strive for excellence and understand the importance of engaging in the battle of ideas that is raging in America. Then talk with Kim about partnership, sponsorship opportunities. Email Kim at KimMunson.com. Kim focuses on creating relationships with individuals and businesses that are tops in their fields. So they are the trusted experts listeners turn to when looking for products or services. Kim personally endorses each of her sponsors. Again, reach out to Kim at KimMunson.com.
SPEAKER 03 :
Welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. And thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And I wanted to give a shout out to Janssen Photography, a great sponsor of the show. Glenn and Mary Janssen are truly entrepreneurs, and they have a beautiful property out in Lakewood, Colorado. Just beautiful landscapes for that family portrait or portraits of the children and your senior student. So check out their website. That is JanssenPhotography.com. And make your appointment now. Don’t delay, because right now, the way the sun, at the end of the day, the sun comes through the leaves and all. It’s just beautiful lighting. And so be sure and check that out. On the line with me is Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. A few thousand people have gone through that project. And they talk about the founding documents. And we’re talking about the Declaration of Independence. And before we went to break… Stan, I mentioned that in the Declaration of Independence, they refer to God, our Creator, four different times. First of all is nature’s God, then the Creator, then, let’s see, the Supreme Judge, and also the Divine Provider, Divine Providence. And I don’t think that’s by accident, is it?
SPEAKER 07 :
No, no, the Declaration itself is… really primarily theological as opposed to what people say is political or ideological or even philosophical. If you’re replacing a human structure of the king and the crown with the creator, then that’s a theological replacement. It’s not a ideological replacement. So you’re right. There’s a lot of references there. And people just skip over that, I think, more than they should. And I think they also frequently hear that, well, there’s no reference to God in the Constitution, so therefore the next phase of this was proving that God really didn’t have a hand in any of this.
SPEAKER 03 :
So how do you answer that when people say that? Because that is true, that they do not refer to God in the Constitution. So how do you address that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, they do refer to the Declaration of Independence in the Constitution. We, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union. And then it kind of goes through three or four different things that they consider to be what they’re after here. But it ends with… to secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. So blessings in the era of these people, where do you think blessings came from in their minds? From the Creator, and liberty is a theological concept. It is not a political concept. Now, you can have other nations speak in terms of liberty, but they’re speaking in terms of freedoms. which is individual freedom that ultimately ends in self-destruction, or in the case of France, when they had liberty in theirs, and it ended up in anarchy and the transfer of power to more and more people, more and more structure that is not different. In our country, liberty is a different thing. In a theological sense, it’s basically my free will, which is a God gift, that is then able to be directed. I can point my free will in a direction and make choices. So my free will is directed towards virtue, and my virtue is defined by my faith. So you can’t ignore the theological foundation of all of this, and it’s Protestant Christian theology. Particularly in the time that these founders were putting this together, That was the primary theology of the entire nation. So it’s important to understand this as a document that really is honoring to a creator, to the God, to the supreme judge of the earth, and all of those things. So I appreciate that you bring that up.
SPEAKER 03 :
And in these references, and I never heard that regarding the Constitution. That makes so much sense. Blessings of liberty. Every word mattered. But let’s talk about their reference to nature’s God. During the break, you mentioned something very interesting about that, where they refer to nature’s God in the Declaration.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, the language they use is laws of nature and of nature’s God. When I teach this, I don’t complicate it. To me, it’s not that complicated. The laws of nature would be man’s human nature. Man has a human nature. And then nature of God, God has a nature distinct and different and higher than man’s human nature. So if you think of the Declaration of speaking to the laws of nature and of nature’s God, or human nature and God’s nature, then it really becomes important or valuable to understand that in a theological sense. So man’s nature is not pure as God’s nature is. Man’s bent towards wickedness or sin, and God’s nature is perfect and eternal nature. and all of those things that we understand from our religious backgrounds. So they’re distinguishing that at the very beginning of the premise that they came up with. So if you look at that, and you can get a PhD in natural law because it is a well-studied thing. But to me, it’s not that complicated. I don’t want to make it that complicated. It’s easier to understand things in my simplistic mind if they’re simple.
SPEAKER 03 :
And, yes, that’s really, it is really important. And the Declaration, speaking of simple, it’s not that long. And it’s to the point. It’s very succinct. And I would really recommend that people pull this out and read it again for themselves and read it with their children and their grandchildren. And it does not take that long.
SPEAKER 07 :
No. No, it’s a one-page document on a, large piece of parchment is how it was handwritten but it is not at all long and the constitution as a form of systemizing or organizing a government under the principles of the declaration isn’t that long or complicated either the complications of the constitution are intentional in order to then dilute power and make sure that not one segment of our federal government nor our state governments or the people have all the power residing in that. Too many people worship the Constitution, and all it is is a document that is systemizing the principles of the Declaration. In my opinion, if the House of Representatives, the people were elected every three years instead of two years, doesn’t mean the country would have failed or is failing. It just is a system that they put together on a two, four, and six time category as opposed to a three, five, and seven pattern. But the patterns, to me, are nothing more than just trying to systemize the principles of the Declaration. Which brings me to the principle in the Declaration that says that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That’s a principle that flips the entire structure of rulers over subjects into a completely different category. So they’re talking about this as a principle of how do we organize our civilization, which is completely radical and completely different than anything that has ever been seen on the planet before.
SPEAKER 03 :
So next question. So we have all kinds of government. We’ve got way too much government. We’ve got local, county, state, and federal. And I served on city council for four years, and I always tried to look at all that we were doing through this lens of the vision of the Declaration that all men are created equal with these rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. So to me, that would mean that government doesn’t pick winners and losers, that they don’t give someone an advantage, because when you do that, then you’re dinging somebody else. But the way of the Constitution giving states rights and states— have a lot of latitude to make different laws, but I’ve always thought that every elected should always make sure that whatever they’re doing stands up to this vision of the declaration. But with states’ rights, there are those that say, well, states can do whatever they want. How do you address that, Stan Everett?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I think this is a universal concept. It’s not a specific concept. The Constitution is specific to the federal government and how the federal government relates to the states as well as the people. But the principle is a universal principle, that to secure rights, governments are instituted or formed deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That is a profound change in the way people would view things. And I think because it’s universal, that should relate to the city council. It should relate to a school board. It should relate to any form of government that is represented by the people. And so I think you have the right idea. But the Constitution is strictly a limitation of government, really, that the 10 amendments of the Bill of Rights isn’t really about rights as much as it’s about limiting government power over people. And so I think you’ve got to look at all of this in the context of the principles to begin with, and then you really start to understand the depth of meaning. Because we have a form of government, this constitutional republic, Republic means everybody is equal under the law. And where do the laws come from? The Constitution. And how are they derived? Well, you have this process of laws that has three different branches of government. In one branch, you have two different branches itself. And then you have a judiciary. And then you have states. I mean, it’s intentionally dysfunctional. so that we have to debate these ideas for making laws to make sure that we are representing the people properly.
SPEAKER 03 :
Absolutely fascinating. I’m talking with Stan Everett regarding the Declaration of Independence and how it relates to the – also then mentioning how it relates to the Constitution. But I wanted to mention two nonprofits that I dearly love. One is the USMC Memorial Foundation, and they’re going to have an event on August 24th to celebrate the 47th anniversary of the Marine Memorial. And They’re working to raise money for a facelift to remodel the Marine Memorial. And so this is going to be a great evening, a great fundraiser. You can get your tickets by going to usmcmemorialfoundation.org. And Drew Dix, who is one of the co-founders of the Center for American Values, which is located in Pueblo, Colorado, is scheduled to be one of the honored guests at the event on the 24th. But the U.S. – I’m backing up. The Center for American Values is on the Riverwalk in Pueblo, Colorado. And I would highly recommend that you make sure you get down there this summer to see the portraits of valor of over 160 Medal of Honor recipients and their quotes. It is really a special place. You can find their hours by going to AmericanValueCenter.org. That’s AmericanValueCenter.org. And we get to do all this because of our sponsors. And one of those is John Boson with Boson Law.
SPEAKER 08 :
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SPEAKER 06 :
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SPEAKER 09 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
And welcome back to The Kim Munson Show. Be sure and check out our website. That is KimMunson, M-O-N-S-O-N.com. Sign up for our weekly email newsletter. You can email me at Kim at KimMunson.com as well. Thank you to all of you who support us. We’re an independent voice and we search for truth and clarity by looking at these issues through the lens of freedom versus force, force versus freedom. If something’s a good idea, you should not have to force people to do it. And we have prerecorded these shows for the Independence Day week. And they are rich, just really special guests. And on the line with me is Stan Everett. He is the founder of the Legacy Project. We’ve been talking about the Declaration of Independence. And during the break, Stan, you said you wanted to talk about how they prioritize the language regarding the Declaration. What do you mean by that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I think my frustration is that everybody talks about the Constitution. Not that it’s not a magnificent structure in order to then have kept us alive for, what, 250 years just under that? Longest lasting constitutional republic or form of government in the history of humanity. So the Constitution is a magnificent document. But if the Constitution isn’t based on principles and understood to be based on principles by the people as well as those that are exercising in our government, then the Constitution has little value. And we’ve seen over the years where the Declaration has been brushed aside, and then we wonder why the Constitution seems to be violated at every turn. Well, because we aren’t focusing on the principles that support the Constitution. We’ve ignored those principles and that frustrates me because the principles to me are what we should be understanding and then calling our political representatives to fall back on those principles as opposed to make it up because they’re interpreting some document that’s a little different than the guy next door who’s interpreting. The principles are timeless and they’re firm and they should be understood because they are very clearly written.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, and those principles are basically what’s in the Declaration that we have these unalienable rights from God of life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness, right? Those are the principles.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, there’s five principles in the Constitution or in the Declaration of Independence.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
And we call them truths. We hold these truths to be self-evident. It’s the beginning of that whole section.
SPEAKER 15 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 07 :
And— The original draft from Jefferson on that was we hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable. So there’s a little bit of theology there. But the principles themselves are that all men are created equal, principle one. Principle two, they’re endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights. Principle three, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, which needs very clear definition as to what those words mean. Plural number four, that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That’s what we just talked about. That is a principle. And then the principle five, that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and to institute new government. laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to affect their safety and happiness. So those are the five that’s because they all start with the word that as a way of listing out these different principles under we hold these truths to be self-evident. Boy, that is interesting. Yeah, I’ll send you how I… separate this document of the Declaration into these four parts. As I teach it that way, people really latch onto it because it makes sense in almost a sequential, if I was writing something, you know, I’d want to start with the principles and then I’d want to start after the principles, I would list my grievances or the problems. And then the final section of the Declaration is the declarations that they’re making. That and with firm reliance on divine providence, we hereby pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. That is the declaration that they have made. So I’ll send you a copy of it. So if you want to put it on your Web site while we’re having this conversation over the fourth, that might be helpful for your for your listeners.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay. And I think probably what Zach will do is include that in the show summary so that it is there with the podcast. Language, nothing was by accident. And during the break, you mentioned something that I also have found rather remarkable, not in a good way, and that is that people think we are a democracy. We are the term threat to democracy, threat to democracy. and save our democracy. What do you say to that?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, democracy is a transitional form of governing. Democracy is completely dysfunctional. Every one of the founders have quotes about their hate or antipathy toward democracy. My favorite has been Franklin. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb. voting on what to have for lunch. So it’s really despised, in fact, by the founders. And so we are a constitutional republic, republic meaning we are a rule of law nation. All people under the rule of law are equal. So equal justice under the law, you’ve heard that phrase. But it’s a constitutional. Where do those laws come from? If we’re going to be under the rule of law, where do those laws come from? Well, in our form, those laws come from our Constitution. That’s the system as to how we make those laws. Now, in the Constitution or in the Republic of China… That isn’t a constitutional, that’s a party that determines the laws. So you have an oligarchy that is overriding or overseeing a party. And so those laws, even though they call themselves a republic, the origin of those laws comes from a different form than ours. So it’s important to kind of distinguish what those are. And quit talking about democracy. We’re kind of getting close to democracy, which in and of itself fails, because you’re going to end up with a society that is 49% versus 51%, and you’re always going to be hating the other side. And so you’re always going to want to override the other side, and then you take power, and then you abuse the other side, and then they take power, and so you’re always back and forth. Ultimately, it ends up in anarchy, and anarchy always ends up in the outcome of an oligarchy. rule of elites.
SPEAKER 03 :
Boy, it sure seems like that there are elites that do want to try to rule us. And, uh, I guess that’s why there’s so many attacks upon this American idea.
SPEAKER 07 :
Yeah. Well, we’ve always been under attack. Uh, it’s just out of the ordinary and it’s so much of a flourishing of humanity and a sanctity of life or the sanctity of, uh, God’s creation. So, uh, It will always be opposed by people who want to power over other people. Now, if you can tell me somebody who doesn’t want to naturally overpower other people, that’s a human nature characteristic. They don’t exist. So you have to restrain yourself from these vices by trying to become a virtuous society made up of people aspiring to be virtuous. Can’t be virtuous. Can’t complete yourself as a virtuous person, but you can aspire to be. That’s another characteristic of our nation and our people that is unique throughout the world as well as throughout history. The people aspire to be better. Better parents, better children, better husbands, better wives, better people in business. Just think of all the aspirations that the society holds that are not really available in other societies.
SPEAKER 03 :
And to aspire for these big ideas. And what we see in our culture now is this focus in many ways, even on carnal things, instead of these big, big ideas. And we need to think about these big ideas. We’ve got just about a minute left, Stan Everett. Thank you. And how would you like to button this up?
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I think with the 4th of July being the broadcast date for this, I would just ask people to look at the Declaration, read it. It doesn’t take very long at all. If they want to go to your website and get this abridged form, it’s all the same words, but it’s just formatted a little bit differently. Instead of one page with all the sentences running together, which is what they wrote, because paper was kind of expensive and hard to come by, Look at it in this context, and then you will have a greater and a deeper understanding, I believe, of what it means and how it should be the primary document that our country is founded upon.
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, Stan Everett, thank you so much. And we are so blessed with liberty because of these amazing documents, the Declaration of Independence. And I wish you and yours a very happy Independence Day, and we will talk again very, very soon.
SPEAKER 07 :
Thank you, Kim. Great to hear from you and look forward to speaking with you again.
SPEAKER 03 :
Definitely. And our quote for the end of the show is Thomas Jefferson. He said this, a true patriot will defend his country from its government. So today, be grateful, read great books, think good thoughts, listen to beautiful music, communicate and listen well, live honestly and authentically, strive for high ideals, and like Superman, stand for truth, justice, and the American way. My friends, you are not alone. God bless you. God bless America. And wishing you a very happy Independence Day.
SPEAKER 17 :
Like a new moon rising fierce through the rain and lightning, wandering out into this great unknown. And I don’t want no one to cry, but tell them if I don’t survive, I was born.
SPEAKER 05 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
