Welcome to the America’s Veterans Stories podcast. Kim Monson is your host. Korean War Veteran John Ryff joined the Marines because he was working in the factories in northern New Jersey and did not see much future there. He was just seventeen. We are re-broadcasting an interview with Ryff. He shares his story about one of the three most famous Marine battles, the Chosin Reservoir. Ryff also shares his perspective on political and military leadership at the time. Ultimately bombardment from the USS New Jersey gave him battle cover. _________________________________________________ Copyright 2023: America’s Veteran’s Stories Visit us at www.americasveteransstories.com
SPEAKER 09 :
World War II, Korea, Vietnam, the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and our other wars and conflicts. America’s fighting men and women strapped on their boots and picked up their guns to fight tyranny and stand for liberty. We must never forget them. Welcome to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. These stories will touch your heart, inspire you, and give you courage. We stand on the shoulders of giants. Here’s Kim Munson.
SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome to America’s Veterans Stories with Kim Munson. This show began because of a trip that I took in 2016 with a group that accompanied four D-Day veterans to Normandy, France, for the 73rd anniversary of the D-Day landings there. And returned stateside realizing each… Story is unique and important. It needs to be heard. It needs to be recorded. It needs to be archived. And hence, America’s Veterans Stories is our show to do that. I am so honored to have on the line with me John Riff. And he is a veteran, a Marine veteran, and he served during the Korean War. John, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 11 :
I’m pleased to be here.
SPEAKER 06 :
So let’s start at the beginning. Where did you grow up, John?
SPEAKER 11 :
In northern New Jersey.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. And what year were you born?
SPEAKER 1 :
1932.
SPEAKER 06 :
1932. So you were a kid during World War II. What do you recall about World War II?
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, well, I remember being in the scaffolding. for the veterans, for the soldiers, and buying savings stamps so we could get savings bonds, and many of our relatives going off to war. I remember all of that. And thank God they came back.
SPEAKER 06 :
And during that time, do you remember any rationing or anything like that during the war? No.
SPEAKER 11 :
Do you know what a Mounds bar is?
SPEAKER 06 :
No.
SPEAKER 11 :
It’s a candy bar.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, yeah. Okay. I’m sorry. Yeah, a Mounds bar. Yes, I do know what that is.
SPEAKER 11 :
They might as well have been made of gold, because you had to have a special storekeeper stock them under the counter, and he would help save you one. But sugar products like that and meat, shoes, shoes were cardboard. Gasoline, everything, rubber, very hard to get. You just made do with used stuff.
SPEAKER 06 :
My gosh, when we see the plenty that we have in 2021 America, it’s absolutely mind-boggling that we don’t just sit down and say thank you for these blessings.
SPEAKER 11 :
Indeed.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, so you go through the war and you join the Marines. Tell us why you joined the Marines and when did you join the Marines?
SPEAKER 11 :
I joined the Marines in late 1950s. And the reason I joined was, can I be honest?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 11 :
To get out of northern New Jersey.
SPEAKER 06 :
We won’t tell anybody in northern New Jersey that you said that, okay?
SPEAKER 11 :
I ended up working on a loading dock or something. It was just a small industry, but there was no future. And there was no money for college, so this was a way out.
SPEAKER 06 :
Let’s see. And so that was 1950. So you were probably, what, 18 years old?
SPEAKER 11 :
I was 17, actually, when I joined, but I did turn 18.
SPEAKER 06 :
Did your parents have to sign for you to join at the age of 17?
SPEAKER 11 :
I forgot.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
You can’t buy drift.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, I got it. Okay, 17 years old, and you are a Marine. And boot camp was no cakewalk, was it?
SPEAKER 11 :
No, you’ve heard that story over and over again. You don’t forget that. It’s sort of embedded in the marrow of your bones. And every Marine who has been to boot camp kind of smiles when he meets another one because they know. They know what it was like.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’ve heard that it’s almost breaking down to then rebuild as a Marine. And it takes a tremendous amount of discipline, mental fortitude, and, of course, physical stamina as well.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, all of those. If you don’t have it, don’t join it. because you’re going to have to put up with a lot of frustrations until they get you straightened out.
SPEAKER 06 :
What about being a Marine through your whole life? I’ve got to imagine every day that experience comes into play, correct?
SPEAKER 11 :
Correct. I have participated and been active in both the American Legion and especially the VFW until I got quite a bit older. But I used to help out at the VFW. I had most of the offices at one point or another. So I tried to do my share.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, so 1950, the Korean War. Here, we’ve just come through a world war, and I think probably Americans are weary. My understanding is that we were reducing the military. So what about those years between 1945 and 1950? That was a scandal.
SPEAKER 11 :
the people who were fired were not fired soon enough. And I hate to say that, but I thought about it and read about it a lot. And there were powerful forces in Washington, and that’s going back before the war, who wanted to fold the Marine Corps into the Army and leave the actual Marine Corps just sort of a… What would I call it?
SPEAKER 06 :
Maybe a shell?
SPEAKER 11 :
More like a… Sea duty or embassy duty. That’s what I’m thinking.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
They just show the flag. And that is the main part of the Marine Corps. You’ve probably heard this many times. It is the Fleet Marine Force. That sounds strange. Why would we have a different part of the Marine Corps with a different name? The Fleet Marine Corps is the flying arm of the Marine Corps. When you send out Marines to fight, they will come from the Fleet Marine Corps, either in North Carolina or California or even Okinawa. So this was the part that was really taken down very secretively. The Fleet Marine Corps, especially the part that MacArthur wanted for the Korean War, He asked, tell me if I’m boring you.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, I find this fascinating.
SPEAKER 11 :
MacArthur was called into Truman’s office right after the invasion from the North. And Truman asked him what he needed to stem the tide. And MacArthur said, the 1st Marine Division, which would be part of the Fleet Marine Force. And Truman said… You’ve got it. And that was the biggest canard, I think, of the entire five years from 45 to 50, because Truman spent every waking moment trying to cut the budget for the Marine Corps. And he was, when the invasion took place, I don’t have my numbers in front of me, but the Marine budget for 49, I believe, was $1,300. Billions? Okay. Could be. And Truman had cut it. This is for the air wings, too, and several divisions. He cut it to, on paper, to $11 billion. And that wouldn’t have been able to sustain the Corps with such small funds. So I never forgave any of these people. Truman made a lot of courageous decisions. We all know that. But he had some sort of animosity, really strong, toward the Army and the Marine Corps. And I think it came from World War I. He was the artillery officer in the… for young news battle which was very bloody and kind of wasteful and he saw all this so i give him some credit that he he saw it and he didn’t like what he saw but he didn’t have to take it out on the marine corps so anyway he he really had no use for the marine corps probably not so much for the navy either the only thing that was uh pressing, and it looked like it would win the day, would be a separate Air Corps. That was going along smoothly in the late 40s. But a number of Marine officers started to testify against this obvious push to fold the Marine Corps into the Army, at least the fighting arm, and The reason the Marines had no use for this idea, and I will tell you, and I think it’s true, is the Army never, never liked amphibious warfare. And they didn’t train their people. I mean, they trained them for Normandy, but generally they were not in favor of any kind of amphibious assault. And this was the Marines’ bread and butter. So it’s all added up to this hostility against the Marine Corps. Maybe the Coast Guard, too. No, probably not. But, see, they all get their sources from the Navy, Coast Guard and the Marines. So they have to go around begging every time the budgets are written.
SPEAKER 06 :
Fascinating. And in the Pacific during World War II, it was the Marines that did do all those amphibious landings, right?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes. They had, at the end of the war, when the final assault was made on Okinawa, there were three Marine divisions out of what they had built to six Marine divisions. They were very strong at the end of the war.
SPEAKER 06 :
And of all the World War II veterans that I’ve interviewed, I’ve never interviewed a Marine that was in the European theater. So it was pretty limited in World War II with the Marines over in Europe. Yes?
SPEAKER 11 :
Probably just embassy duty. And maybe… Classified work. I don’t know that.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Okay. And, boy, I did not know all of this. So I’m certainly learning a lot on this. John, we have just a couple of minutes left. I think just at the very beginning when you got into the Marine Corps, is there any story or anything that you’d like to leave with our listeners before we go to break? Sure.
SPEAKER 11 :
Nothing I can repeat over the air. A couple of stories that I’m not going to tell you.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
I’ll think about that as we go along.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. So with that, then, I just want to make sure that I get the timeline right. You were born in 1932. You joined the Marines in 1950 at the age of 17. And where did you go to boot camp at?
SPEAKER 11 :
Parris Island. Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
We all went to Parris Island from the New York area, and that was something you had to behold. I’ll tell you why. The drill instructors were all Southerners, and they had been on Guadalcanal and Tarawa, and they were really tough guys.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER 11 :
And they hated the New Yorkers. Oh, dear. Gangsters, thieves. Some people slept with their bayonets under their pillows. Yeah. They didn’t know what to make of us, but most of us were okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Yeah, and to have those guys, I mean, they had to be really tough guys. I’ve learned enough about Guadalcanal and Tarawa to know that as well. So we’re going to go to break. This is Kim Munson with America’s Veteran Stories. I’m talking with Korean Marine veteran John Riff. And before we go to break, though, I have some great sponsors. And for both of my shows and the one of them is Hooters restaurants. They have five locations. Let’s see. It’s Loveland, Westminster, Aurora, Lone Tree and Colorado Springs. And they have all kinds of specials. And you can go to my website, Kim Munson. That’s M-O-N-S-O-N dot com and click on the sponsors tab. I highly recommend each and every one of them. and click on the Hooters tab, and they will get all of their specials. But they have lunch specials, kids eat free on Saturdays, happy hour specials. So be sure and check that out. So this is Kim Munson. I’m talking with John Riff, and we’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 05 :
Remax Realtor Karen Levine helps bring to life the individual stories of our servicemen and women. With her sponsorship of America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson, Karen honors the sacrifices of our military and is grateful for our freedom. As a member of the National Association of Realtors Board of Directors, Karen works to protect private property rights for all of us. Karen has a heart for our active duty military and veterans and is honored to help you buy or sell your home. Call Karen Levine at 303-877-7516 to help you navigate buying or selling your home. That’s 303-877-7516.
SPEAKER 04 :
All of Kim’s sponsors are an inclusive partnership with Kim and are not affiliated with or in partnership with KLZ or Crawford Broadcasting. If you would like to support the work of The Kim Munson Show and grow your business, contact Kim at her website, kimmunson.com. That’s Kim Munson, M-O-N-S-O-N dot com.
SPEAKER 06 :
Welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure and check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. So honored to have on the line with me a Marine veteran, Korean War veteran, and that is John Riff. John, fascinating, the history that you gave us in the first segment. Let’s talk about you get out of boot camp, Parris Island. What happens after that? Where do you go?
SPEAKER 11 :
We went about 10 miles from Parris Island to, I guess— Well, we went to, there was a airfield nearby. It might have been part of the Marine airfield, but they were lined up about six planes of these, well, they were just two engine planes then. They loaded us all on these planes, and we went to California that day, no fooling around. And they more or less said, you’re in the infantry. And when you graduate from, it’s different now, I’m sure, When you graduate from boot camp and you do well and behave yourself, you can often get a nice school or something and increase your chances of promotion. But at this time, the drill instructor at the end of training had a list of members of our platoon, and he just started reading down Adams Infantry, Jones Infantry, Baker Infantry. They just went straight down the list. And they finally got to one guy who was, we called him Doc. He’d had three years at Notre Dame in pre-med. And he got, I think his name was something like McAvoy. He got the McAvoy Infantry. And you could hear the people sucking air.
SPEAKER 06 :
That meant everybody was going to infantry about, right?
SPEAKER 11 :
Here’s the great part, the great line. The drill instructor said, we need good men in the infantry, too.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 11 :
That summed it up.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow.
SPEAKER 11 :
Okay, so— We flew out to an air base, which is not there anymore, called El Toro, about— 40 miles from Camp Pendleton, down near Oceanside, all the way to San Diego. And then we started what I laughingly refer to as advanced infantry training. We didn’t have any real equipment to learn on. I mean, you might have an old machine gun that if you did try to fire it, it would jam. But we walked a lot, and we learned a few things. And then one day, Friday afternoon, I don’t know how many weeks we were in, now that war had started, the commanding officer called us together and said, your training is over. You’re going to Korea right now.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, my gosh.
SPEAKER 11 :
We got down to the main side of Camp Pendleton, took care of all our paperwork and so forth. And I guess by Monday we were loading the ships. So I’d say our training was kind of half-baked. Didn’t matter. You’ll find out. If you make a mistake in combat, you’ll hear about it right away.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right. Do you feel your training, your basic training, prepared you for Korea?
SPEAKER 11 :
Paris Island did. Yeah. Absolutely. The infantry training was cut short.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Because they needed to get men over there, huh?
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, yeah. Well, I have another story if you’re ready for it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Ready for it.
SPEAKER 11 :
the Marine Corps, he first started by what they called hollowing out. The Marine Corps, at least in the World War II, the 50s and 40s, is built on what’s called a triangular system. Three squads to a platoon, three platoons to a company, three companies to a battalion, so on and so on up the line. So that’s how they were designed, and they planned all their tactics with those men. Well, if you look at the Marine organization in 1950, there was no middle unit. There were two squads in every platoon, two platoons in every company. It had really been cut. And maybe nobody was checking. Maybe nobody cared. I don’t know. But that’s a fact. Because the number of Marines in World War II went up to 300,000. And by the time of Korea, the total number of—well, I’m just talking about the Fleet Marine Corps. The total number of fighting Marines was about 27,000.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, my gosh.
SPEAKER 11 :
Plus coasts, plus sea duty, plus whatever. So they were empty. When they filled out the first Marine division finally in Korea, it probably took them six months or more, they had stripped the West Coast. There was nobody left. And that’s the only way they could get Marines, take them out of the offices, take them out of the truck repairs, whatever, and put them in the infantry. So it was really… And the man… And you can look this up. The man who was responsible for this, aside from Harry Truman, was named Louis Johnson. And he was just so destructive. And the Marines, they were trying to actually get a bill passed to redesign the Defense Department. And part of that bill was to just eliminate most of the Marine Corps and put it in the Army. And the Marines were trying to get their point across that this is a different type of military, their amphibious skills. And it took, I think, about three or four, I could name, World War II colonels, the most promising colonels of the Marine Corps coming out of World War II, resigned their commissions. So they could go to Congress and testify what a bad idea this was. And, of course, they ruined their careers. And one of those was named Carlson. You may have heard of Carlson’s Raiders.
SPEAKER 03 :
I have.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, he resigned his commission. They wouldn’t accept it, but they finally did. And then he could speak his mind. And somehow, because there were enough veterans in Congress… they were able to hold on and keep the Marine Corps. That was the sum total of what happened. And Truman fired Louis Johnson, finally.
SPEAKER 06 :
Now, they had to resign their commissions because they were not supposed to make political comments. Is that correct?
SPEAKER 11 :
I believe that was the rule, similar to that. Although, I don’t know how Ollie North… could wear his uniform when he was testifying. But that’s another question.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Rather remarkable. I did not know about any of this. And all of this is occurring at the same time we have Marines that are going to Korea, putting their lives on the line. Am I getting that timeline correct, John?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes. Well, they were going over a ship, Ship load or two, a ship load or two every month when they started rotating out. They tried to get everybody rotated out within 12 or 16 months. So there were always new blood coming in, and that was okay. You had to teach them something, but they were willing to learn, and we did the job.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. And you boarded the ship to go to Korea from the San Diego area, yes?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes. It was a civilian, semi-civilian military transport. I think they were old Liberty ships. It was called the USMTS, something like that, USMTS MiGs. MiGs was a big Army general. And they just stuffed us on there. I think there were about 3,000 And I’ll tell you, you want an interesting story?
SPEAKER 06 :
I do. I tell you what, let’s do, let’s go to break, John. And when we come back, let’s begin with that particular story. This is Kim Munson with America’s Veteran Stories. I am talking with Marine veteran, Korean War veteran, John Riff. And we’re getting to the point where he’s on his way to Korea. And when we come back, we’ll continue with that story. Before we do that, though, I wanted to have a little conversation with Lorne Levy, who is another one of our great sponsors of both of the shows. Lauren Levy, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER 10 :
Hey, thanks for having me, Kim.
SPEAKER 06 :
Each and every one of these stories are different, and Lauren, I so appreciate you in bringing these stories to the air.
SPEAKER 10 :
Well, it’s my pleasure. It seems like the least we can do for people that have fought and sometimes, you know, served the ultimate sacrifice, but we want to help the ones that have served and are now, you know, going back into society, and, you know, we want to help them as much as humanly possible.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and I think, Lorne, knowing our history is so important. That’s why getting these stories, archiving them, broadcasting them, sharing them, it’s history. And we can’t take that for granted, Lorne.
SPEAKER 10 :
I agree. I don’t know how they teach this stuff in high school anymore, but we studied it extensively. And if we can help any of these folks, it sure would be good to do it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, and one of the ways to do that is to know their stories. Now, Lorne Levy, over in your business, in the mortgage arena, there are some special things for veterans and military personnel. And during this time of a really hot real estate market, there’s things that people can do as veterans and military personnel to get into a home. How can you help them?
SPEAKER 10 :
Absolutely. So the VA loan is… I’ve said this to you many times in the past. The VA loan is one of the best benefits the government offers. They really did it right, and it allows active duty or veterans to purchase homes with 0% down, which is huge in this market, especially with the way prices are going. They also can refinance their home at an extremely low rate and take all the equity out of their home if they need cash for any reason. The normal loan only goes up to 80%. If you take cash out, the VA will let you take all the money out. And they don’t have mortgage insurance when you go over 80%. There’s just so many good features to the VA loan in addition to rates being lower than normal conforming loans. It’s such a good feature and something available to active duty and past military folks.
SPEAKER 06 :
Lauren Levy, if people want more information about that, how can they reach you?
SPEAKER 10 :
The best way is to just call the office at 303-880-8881.
SPEAKER 06 :
Again, that number is 303-880-8881. And, Lorne Levy, you are a valued partner of both America’s Veterans Stories and The Kim Munson Show. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 10 :
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Kim.
SPEAKER 01 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
God bless us.
SPEAKER 06 :
And welcome back to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. I am Kim Munson. And check out our website. That is AmericasVeteranStories.com. So honored to be talking with John Riff, a Korean War veteran, a Marine veteran. And we are now he’s headed to Korea. And before we went to break, John, you had another story to share with us.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes, this one had an effect on my life. Because, as I told you, I just came out of northern New Jersey, factory-cut towns, and we were loaded on the ship, and we were just kind of packed in mostly the fantail, the back of the ship, the round part. That’s where they’d have the movies. Or we’d go down in the hold, which was sweltering, and get a meal. And I’m thinking… Boy, this is really uncomfortable. Some of us were just… You know what a hatch is on a ship? It’s the black cover?
SPEAKER 03 :
Right.
SPEAKER 11 :
We were sleeping on the hatches just to get out of that heat. And I’m thinking, there’s got to be a better way to do this. You could look down. Now, the center of the ship had cabins. And those were for officers. And if you look very carefully… kind of tilt your head and look down, you’d see that there were two officers to each cabin with white sheets and pillows. Now, my point is, I asked myself, how do I get there? And I thought, there’s only one answer. You’ve got to go to college because education is really holding you up. So that was a lesson well learned.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow. So what time of year then was this that you were headed to Korea, where it was so hot?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, Korea, that would be the summer, any summer. Okay. They always talk about the cold, but it was sweltering. They lost during the early stages of the fight around what was called the Pusan perimeter. The heat was knocking out as many soldiers and Marines as the enemy. It was really bad. And there was nothing anybody could do about it. It was do or die.
SPEAKER 06 :
And how long did the trip take to get from San Diego to Korea?
SPEAKER 11 :
Two weeks each way.
SPEAKER 06 :
Did you get seasick at all? Okay. Okay. Where and when did you arrive in Korea then?
SPEAKER 11 :
First we docked in Japan. at a place called Yokosuka. It’s a big naval base. And I thought that was a mistake, because they gave each of us $20 and told us to come back that night. And I thought, you’re not going to see these guys anymore. But they did come back, and we came back, and we went around and bought some high-priced liquor that the black market was selling. But that was, then we went from Yokosuka around the bottom and over to Pusan. I don’t think we stopped in Kobe. I don’t remember.
SPEAKER 06 :
And so would that be, what, September-ish or so in, what, 51?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, it was hot.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Definitely hot. Okay. Okay. You’re at Korea now. You’re at Pusan. What happens then?
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, then they break us out to our different units. I have a picture I can show you. They were flying us up to the front. They needed people so badly. And they just cut some strips out of the ground, and they got together a bunch of planes, and they took us right from where we were serviced in Pusan to get assigned, loaded us on the planes, and right up its coast, you could hear the artillery where those planes were landing. And they got us to our units in no time. And… So then we got distributed. I went to a certain company, and most of the infantry went to Company A or Company B. My company was anti-tank. And… We were all part of the 7th Marines, which is an embarrassment too. But it goes back to that, if I can say this, it goes back to that earlier period when there was no 7th Marines because they had stripped the Marine Corps of the 7th Marines. Now, you can say, how can you do that? Seventh Marines are an organic part of the Marines. Yes, they are. And every time they count, they count the Seventh Marines as part of the Marine Corps. Now, the dirty secret is, and this would be when they reduced the size of the Marine Corps after World War II, the dirty secret is the Seventh Marines became the Marine Reserve in the old little towns around the country. So it was there, but they were not in any fighting shape. And they had to get all those Marines, reserve Marines, back together and back to California to build up the 7th Marines. What do you think of that?
SPEAKER 06 :
So these are guys that they thought that they were, were they reserves? They were, a lot of them were World War II veterans.
SPEAKER 11 :
knew what the Marines were like, decided they’d get a check every month. So they joined the reserves. It was easy. Little did they know that they’d be called back.
SPEAKER 06 :
Right, and by this time, probably a lot of them married, had families.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, more or less. Ooh, they were angry. Huh. So the Inchon Landing, this is probably not known either, the Inchon Landing came… Oh, gosh, I don’t remember. Say September 30th. The 7th Marines didn’t even get to Inchon for two more weeks. They were having such trouble getting everybody over there. So the division only had two regiments for that invasion of Inchon and up to Seoul. And the 7th Marines finally made it. I swear we were behind all the time.
SPEAKER 06 :
I’m trying to have your life on the line like that and to be frustrated with the leadership, your young kid. I mean, what was going through your mind at that time, John?
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, that’s easy. If you’re a private PFC… Your world is 500 meters in every direction. That’s it. You don’t know anything else. You don’t know where you are. Are you over the 38th parallel, under it? You don’t know. They just tell you when to saddle up and get moving. Okay. And that’s just as well. And then you can get good books and read about it.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Well, tell us about the Inchon Landing.
SPEAKER 11 :
That was it. That was a disaster waiting to happen. I think MacArthur probably put the odds at 5,001 because they had these long tides. The tides went way out. And they exposed these mud beaches. And so they had to get these landing craft into the actual beach to get up on land. well if if you didn’t go at the right time all you do is drive your little landing boat into the mud so they had to wait till evening before landing the main force and guess what everybody in the in the world knew what was going on by then luckily the koreans didn’t have too much But still, it was no surprise. And then if they could get their boats in over the mud, then there was what’s called a seawall. And you had to climb that might be 12 or 14 feet. I guess keep the tides out or something. And the poor guys on those ships, it was bad enough on the troop ships, but they put them to work making the ladders out of spare lumber from the ships. So when they went into the landing mode, not only did they have landing boats, they had these, what would I call them, ladders that were just sort of hastily put together. And they had to use those to get up over the seawall. Well, I think there were a lot of casualties right there.
SPEAKER 06 :
Was it heavily fortified? I mean, it was fortified, obviously. But now I’m recalling that the tides were a really big deal. And there was misjudgment on the tides that created real challenges, correct?
SPEAKER 11 :
Right. And there was a small island off to the side. And I think they had to take that first because you would be looking right down the Marines’ throat if you didn’t have that island subdued. So that was a separate unit. And I don’t know who that was, but it wasn’t too hard. And then the invasion went ahead pretty smoothly.
SPEAKER 06 :
And what was the purpose? And I’m, again, I’m doing this from memory. This was, I’m looking at this, September 1950. But wasn’t Incheon on the western side of Korea? And then once that was accomplished, didn’t they bring you back around for Chosen? Or what happened exactly?
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s what happened. They… They used the Marines. They finally got the 7th Marines, and they helped the fighting in Seoul. They took the city. But at that point, they pulled the Marines out, and they were using army troops to push up toward the capital of North Korea. And they put these Marines back on ships again, sailed all the way around the bottom and up the top, and landed at a place called Wonsan. I think that’s right. And then they started their march up to the Chosin.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. So Inchon then is more on the eastern side, and then it went around and got up to Wonsan. And so where are you in all of this, John?
SPEAKER 11 :
Somewhere in the middle. Inchon is on the western coast.
SPEAKER 06 :
Oh, it is. Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
And Wonsan is on the eastern.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
You have to go all the way around that peninsula and up again to get to Wonsan.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. I had my directions mixed up then. And so where were you on Inchon?
SPEAKER 03 :
We weren’t there yet. Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. And they got there two weeks later then. Okay. So Inchon, anything else that you want people to know about that?
SPEAKER 11 :
No, it was a hard fight. They didn’t give up easily. But they did. They insisted the Marines take Seoul. Incheon wasn’t too hard, but Seoul was hard. It was house to house. And then finally they got through Seoul and they had to cross a pretty big river right alongside called the Han River. Had to cross that too. And of course that was all blown up. So had to put in some new bridges. And then they started working their way north, and then they took the Marines out.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. And then it was at that point then the Marines then are transported to Wonsan. Am I getting that correct?
SPEAKER 11 :
Right.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. And you, were you part of the 7th? Yes, all the time. Okay. And you’d not arrive. You said that you guys arrived two weeks later after the Battle of Inchon started. So were you on any of that, or did you end up at Wonsan? I don’t remember.
SPEAKER 11 :
I think we had something to do with that island that had to be taken, but it’s kind of vague to me.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Okay. Well, I tell you what, let’s go to break. This is absolutely fascinating. I’m talking with Korean Marine war veteran, and that is John Riff. And we’re going to go to break. When we come back, we’ll continue on with this very important conversation. Stay tuned.
SPEAKER 07 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
From the mountains to the prairies,
SPEAKER 06 :
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SPEAKER 11 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. And in between breaks, you were mentioning, I think, your corps commander, who you knew a bit. Tell us about him.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, he would be directly under MacArthur. So he had a corps commander normally is responsible for three divisions to coordinate them and so forth. And the winter was coming, as you may remember, and there were signs, intelligence coming down through North Korea that there were Chinese coming across the Yalu River into North Korea. northern North Korea, and they were hiding out in these narrow valleys, and they couldn’t be picked up very easily. So I don’t know how good the intelligence was, but it was there. There were people warning, especially this General Almond. And he wanted to polish up his medals, I think. He said, I want to push through to the Yalu River, all the way up to China, and then we’ll win. And he had no idea what he was up against, like 80,000 or 90,000 Chinese so-called volunteers. And when they hit that November, well, they hit all along the front, but I’m just thinking of the Marines. It was a good thing the Marine general, his name was Opie Smith, he said, let’s just hold here. Let’s not go any further. and we’ll see what this intelligence looks like. And he was right. They were able to fortify themselves, and then they realized they were surrounded. There were so many Chinese. So they had to fight in a different direction. That’s what happened.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay, so when he said, we’re going to stop, was that at the Chosin Reservoir then?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
He more or less disobeyed that order from the general.
SPEAKER 06 :
And the general wanted to push on further to the north, is that correct?
SPEAKER 11 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Now, are you at the Chosen Reservoir, John?
SPEAKER 11 :
Yes. We were the 7th and the, I think it was the 5th. And then there was a circle. I can just visualize this. I wasn’t privy to the maps or anything. And the third regiment of our division was outside the circle. And that was the first regiment, the first Marines. And they were trying to fight back in. And the 7th and 5th were trying to fight back out. Well, they finally succeeded, but it was pretty bad.
SPEAKER 06 :
And this is coming into November then, is that right? Yes.
SPEAKER 11 :
More closer to December.
SPEAKER 06 :
December, okay. In the circle, so are you, you’re surrounded, is that right, by the North Koreans and the Chinese?
SPEAKER 11 :
That’s a good way to visualize it. They were up in these mountains and ridges and valleys and all around, and there were so many of them that they could actually form a complete circumference.
SPEAKER 06 :
How did you guys get supplies?
SPEAKER 11 :
They could come in by plane. We had a strip, a dirt strip, and two engine planes could make it in. And ammunition was always short, always short. One of the things you would find out, I think, quickly, if you spoke to a machine gunner, is they have to fire their weapon every day, and not just one or two rounds. And that uses up a lot of ammunition.
SPEAKER 06 :
Tell us about the temperatures. Tell us about the cold.
SPEAKER 11 :
I never felt cold like that.
SPEAKER 1 :
I still remember it. It was awful.
SPEAKER 11 :
I mean, somebody waking you up to full guard duty and it’s 20 below or something. Oh, pray that God will take you. I can’t get up. But we did it.
SPEAKER 06 :
What kind of equipment did you have to try to stay warm?
SPEAKER 11 :
It was pretty good. We had parkers and we had our long johns. And let me think. I’ll probably forget something. You had to wear a helmet and a cap. That helped. And the shoes were terrible. The shoes, the second winter, they finally got what are called, we call them Mickey Mouse boots. They were tall. They came up halfway up your shin. And they were kind of a white spongy material. And it was an excellent, excellent insulator. But the first winter, there was a lot of frostbite.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah. Did your feet get frostbitten?
SPEAKER 03 :
No.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Now, I’m looking at this. November 27, 1950, the Chinese forces surprised the Marine Corps. I recall hearing that they were so numerous when they made that attack. Do you recall that?
SPEAKER 11 :
No, our weapons were a little longer range. They were useful for road blocking. Our main weapon was called a recoilless rifle, 75 millimeter. And we had four of those. And they were excellent for just blocking roads and causing problems. And we also had on loan five tanks. But they were too snooty. They wouldn’t let us around their tanks.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Tell us what you—oh, go ahead.
SPEAKER 11 :
They would tell me, and I can’t guarantee it, they would tell me the best way to kill a tank is with another tank, not with a recoilless rifle.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. And was the North Koreans well-supplied?
SPEAKER 11 :
Their clothing was pretty good. It was that, I don’t know what you call it, something like ski jackets.
SPEAKER 03 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
Yeah, something like ski jackets. They just didn’t have good shoes. Okay. They would freeze where they were, and that was that. They were just dead the next day.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow. Okay, well, tell us, let’s see, I can’t remember how long the battle was, but it was well over 30 days, wasn’t it? I can’t find that right now.
SPEAKER 11 :
I think it was more like, the intense part was two weeks.
SPEAKER 06 :
Two weeks, okay.
SPEAKER 11 :
We turned around, and there was only one road out, one road in. That was part of the problem. And there was a… I’ll say a power station along that road and a bridge. I guess it was a stream under it or something. And the bridge was blown. So one of the fantastic engineering accomplishments, I’m aware of, I didn’t see it, I saw the bridge, was the Army… with helicopters flew in, I think, four big steel plates. You see them on the highways? They dropped these plates right on the right spot, and the engineers adjusted them, and they put it all together, and they took the whole division out over that bridge. And what I think was kind of interesting historically was that General Almond, the Corps commander, He told the Marine commander, he said, we’ll make sure that strip is open. We’re going to fly your men out. This is not tenable. And General Smith said, no, you’re not going to fly us out. We’re coming out with everything. And they did. Their tanks, their trucks, their jeeps, everything came out.
SPEAKER 06 :
I did not know this, John. This is fascinating how you guys got out of there. You were surrounded. And so what was that battle like to try to get out of there?
SPEAKER 11 :
Hard to see because the first Marines coming up may have made the first breakthrough. Somebody got discouraged and they opened the road. I know that. And then you could move. And once they got the trucks and everything moving, we could take out the wounded and get going. And then it wasn’t that. Once you got down about 20 or 30 miles, it was fairly safe. And we had air cover, great air cover, marine air cover.
SPEAKER 06 :
John, I’ve heard that the three most famous Marine battles, I think, is Belleau Wood in World War I and Iwo Jima in World War II and the Chosin Reservoir in the Korean War. And a lot of people don’t know much about the Chosin Reservoir. We’ve got probably about three minutes left. What is it that you, if you were talking to a young person, which they are listening right now, what would you say to them about that particular battle?
SPEAKER 11 :
Pay attention to your intelligence. Too many cases in our history that intelligence was ignored rather than follow up. So pay attention to it and assume maybe it’s right. And maybe you’re in imminent danger. But here, in this case, they were. They could have easily been overrun. And some of the Army units were.
SPEAKER 06 :
And what was going through your mind as you were exiting the Chosen Reservoir? What was going through your mind?
SPEAKER 11 :
Getting a little warmer. Yeah. And down toward the harbor. That’s all I remember.
SPEAKER 06 :
And then after that, where did you go?
SPEAKER 11 :
The division was relocated. What was left of it was all chewed up. relocated to a city about, I’ll guess, 30 miles from Pusan called Mason. And then we had to get resupplied and get new men in and so forth. And then get back to work.
SPEAKER 1 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 06 :
And so did you see other battles as well?
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, we went up to, after that mason, they got resupplied, the Marines moved up the east coast and actually crossed the 38th. You’ll see, if you see a map of Korea, you’ll see a little bit of, a little chunk of North Korea we took back and we kept it. And we were in there. It was quite cold there, too. It’s mountainous. But the interesting thing, if I may, I found in that part of Korea was our units up on the ridges could see the USS New Jersey firing these 16-inch shells 20 miles inland. And you never heard anything like that when they go over. Oh, my God. But they could reach into these bunkers very well. I wouldn’t want that ship firing at me. That was in New Jersey, and she was close enough to us.
SPEAKER 06 :
Wow. Well, John Riff, this has been absolutely fascinating, and I find it a little bit ironic that you left New Jersey, and then it was the New Jersey then that was helping you out when you were there in Korea. So, John Riff, go ahead. I never thought of that. Yes. Okay. John Riff, it has been such an honor to get to do this interview. I thank you so much.
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, thanks for calling and bringing this up, Kim. I guess it will go down in the dustbins of history somewhere.
SPEAKER 06 :
That it will. That it will. So, my friends. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 11 :
We had a nice conversation. That’s what counts.
SPEAKER 06 :
Okay. Well, for sure. So, John Riff, thank you. My friends, we indeed live. We stand on the shoulders of giants. So, God bless you and God bless America.
SPEAKER 09 :
Thank you for listening to America’s Veteran Stories with Kim Munson. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday, 3 to 4 p.m. here on KLZ 560 and KLZ 100.7.
SPEAKER 08 :
The views and opinions expressed on KLZ 560 are those of the speaker, commentators, hosts, their guests, and callers. They are not necessarily the views and opinions of Crawford Broadcasting or KLZ management, employees, associates, or advertisers. KLZ 560 is a Crawford Broadcasting God and country station.
