In this episode, Chuck and Ashley Elliott dive into the often challenging yet rewarding conversations about intimacy in marriage. They offer insights into how miscommunication and societal taboos can hinder marital growth. The Elloitts share strategies for reprogramming mindsets around sexual intimacy, encouraging couples to engage in open dialogue and connect both spiritually and physically.
00:01:04 Welcome to the Good News with Angie Austin
00:27:46 Overcoming Communication Barriers in Intimacy
SPEAKER 07 :
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SPEAKER 08 :
Now, with the good news, here’s Angie.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey there, friend. Angie Austin and Jim Stovall here with the good news, and we are talking about his winner’s wisdom column. Today it’s titled, When It Becomes Possible, and it’s possible I’m a little tired today, Jim. We had a big outing this weekend, and you are off gallivanting around as well, right?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes, I am on the beach in San Diego, and you have been out to all hours of the night, apparently.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, you know, I did go with my son. You know, we did ThriftCon in Denver, and he did so well that we decided we’d try traveling to a location. But I didn’t want to drive again because I don’t know if you remember a few years ago we broke down on the way to Vegas in the middle of nowhere. So I thought, no, we can fly with four suitcases, and that’s it, right? Right. so we um we’re in something called the trading pit and i’ll send you a picture people are like why are you sending jim pictures he’s blind because jim gets a flavor for my life through his wife crystal who describes all the photos or like his um colleagues that work for him um and they tell him kind of like you know what this setup is like in jim it was so crazy we were in the trading pit And it’s like what it sounds like. It’s like a 10 by 10 piece of floor with this big sign behind us that said Trading Pit. And then my son had like, I don’t know, hundreds of high-end t-shirts like The Who, Grateful Dead, Rolling Stones, you know, old, you know, boxing t-shirts like, you know, where the guy got his ear bit off or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, so like they’re famous for a reason, the boxing match or whatever. Yeah. So anyway, we’re there all weekend long and you’re there for, I don’t know, the entire day and into the night and you just sit on the floor and you sell high end t-shirts. That’s what he did. And, you know, it sounds like just like, I don’t know, like a hobby. No, it’s like a legit job. These kids, it’s amazing. how much, you know, how well they do and the diversity in their range of products. It’s not just like, you know, T-shirts from the thrift store. It’s all kinds of things, vintage records and antiques and, you know, specific items that are made like artwork, clothing that’s like artwork with different patches and stitching. And I don’t know, it was a trip. I mean, I’m the oldest person there pretty much, but it’s very fun to see young people with such cool style and little business people.
SPEAKER 09 :
Absolutely. Well, hey, this is free enterprise and the next generation. So I’m just ecstatic about this young man and the progress he’s making. As you know, I work with college entrepreneurs, and this is just the kind of thing that gives me a lot of faith in the future.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, I can’t believe, too, like credit cards and Venmo and Zelle and Bluetooth credit card readers that hook up to your phone and cash, of course. Cash is still king, Jim.
SPEAKER 09 :
It is. I remember when I was a kid, I would go fishing with my grandfather, and we would go to this bait shop, old, old bait shop, and You know, and he had a sign over the cash register saying, God, we trust everybody else pays cash.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s hilarious. All right. So when it becomes possible from the beach in San Diego, tell us about this column.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, you know, one of my favorite authors, as you know, is Napoleon Hill. I’ve written well over 50 books, and I don’t know that any of them would have been possible without his work. And one of his enduring sayings is that anything the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve. And a lot of times we can conceive of something, but we really can’t believe it for us. I mean, before you could read or ride a bike, you’re a little tiny kid. You know, you knew other people could read and ride a bike, but until you knew you could do it, it really doesn’t become possible. So, you know, and then you wake up that day and one day you go off to the first grade or the second grade and you’re not able to read. And all of a sudden something clicks and you’re reading words. And one day you’re not able to ride your bike without your mom or dad holding on. And then all of a sudden you realize, wow, I’m riding a bike. Well, this happens. In the world in general, there’s a 35-year-old video game called Tetris. Most of your listeners have probably heard of it. And it’s been out 35 years. Tens of millions of people have played this game. And it’s never been maxed out. No one’s ever defeated the game until a few months ago, a 13-year-old kid did it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Really?
SPEAKER 09 :
The screen went blank. Yes, and he had beaten Tetris. Really? What’s amazing about it is he beats the game. He’s 13 years old. And within two weeks, two other people around the world did the same thing. What? So for millions and millions of plays, it wasn’t possible. But once someone did it, it became possible. And the same thing we see happen in track and field in the Olympics. For years and years and years, the premier race was the one-mile run. And everyone believed no one could run a four-minute mile or less than four minutes. And it was just believed to be impossible. Then in 1954, Roger Bannister did it. Within that same year, 18 other runners around the world did it. And within 10 years. It became commonplace in high school meets that people would do it. And, you know, I realize athletes are getting better, but the barrier that was broken was the barrier in the mind. All of a sudden they could conceive it and they could believe it because somebody else did it. Once you see somebody else do it, then everything becomes possible, which is why I encourage people that don’t take advice from anybody that doesn’t have what you want or hasn’t been where you want to go. Because when you’re around someone that’s already been, and done what you want to do, it goes past conceive and believe. It’s down to achieve. You know, it’s possible. They can do it. So the question is, I just got to make this happen. And so, you know, that’s what we’re talking about. And it becomes really important how we feed our mind and the people we hang around because they are going to help us go from conceive to believe to achieve. And so once something happens, It’s beyond possible. It’s already happened. So now it’s just a matter of you plugging it in and making it a reality in your life.
SPEAKER 04 :
I love the idea of the power of the mind. I’ve been watching a lot of these little clips that I send to my kids regarding their sports or like super coaches like your old buddy, Coach Wooden, that really inspire kids. And they basically… One of the things I was, and I won’t get this exactly right, but the gist of it was athletes who are like superb. And a lot of the athletes that are superb that I see in these videos say, I don’t believe in talent. I had some talent, but there were people with more natural talent than I had, but I worked harder. And so there were several athletes that I’ve seen in the last few weeks as I’m looking for something specific to show my kids that talked about how the hard work helped them surpass people who were lazier with natural talent. But anyway, what it was that the people who were the gold medalist types, you know, the Jim Stovall types that really pushed their… Jim, if you don’t know, was an Olympic weightlifter. You know, that type of mentality that wanted to be the best. It wasn’t that they… trained harder. It wasn’t that they had more talent. It wasn’t that they had a better diet. What it all came down to, it was the mental aspect of the sport, the ability to move on from failure and to let that missed shot or that whatever, that flub, be gone within seconds and that positive mental talk to be able to focus on that that was the difference between the gold medal and the i made it to you know the big game but didn’t really um you know show my stuff yeah and you know and it it’s talent it’s mental it’s it’s a little of both but uh
SPEAKER 09 :
You know, recently you mentioned Coach Wooden. Recently, this last week, we lost one of his best players, Bill Walton. Oh, yes. And it was that famous game. They were playing Houston in the Astrodome. As you can imagine, a basketball game in the Astrodome with 70,000 people watching. And it was for their third national championship in a row with Bill Walton. Bill Walton, they were undefeated. The whole time he had played there. And they were in their last game playing the University of Houston. So the crowd was pretty vocal against them. And there was about four seconds to go. They’re behind by one. And Bill’s got two free throws and coach calls a timeout. And then there was this huddle. Well, I asked coach, what did you tell Bill? And he said, well, I remember it clearly. He said, I told him we’re on national television, and we’re representing our team and our university and our families. And his shirt had come untucked, and it looked somewhat unsightly. So I told him, William, you need to tuck in your shirt. And then he said, then I reminded him, after Bill hits these two free throws, we need to call another timeout, and then we’ll set up the defense. And I said, Coach, what did you tell him? What if Bill missed a free throw? He said, I don’t want them thinking about Bill missing a free throw. I just made it just we’re all assuming and believing Bill’s going to hit these free throws and then we’re going to call timeout. And he said, frankly, my players knew what to do, but there’s no reason to insert that out. You know, well, if he misses here, here’s what we’re going to do. And he said, I just don’t want to even bring that into reality in their mind. Well. You know, Bill hit both free throws. They called timeout and won their national championship. They won 10 out of 12 years, which is just an unheard of thing. And I’m here in San Diego getting ready to give a speech tonight. And I’m going to talk a little about Bill and Coach Wooden because one of the things he said that can just impact everybody, if you want to have an amazing life and leave an amazing legacy, the only thing you’ve got to do is go through everything you do in your day, whether it’s a phone call, an interview with Angie, you’re writing an email, you’re encountering someone walking down the hall, and you ask yourself, what would I do right now if I were amazing? Not adequate, good enough, mediocre. What would I do if I was amazing? And if you’ll do everything like that, you’ll have an amazing day and then you’ll have an amazing week and a month. And before you know it, you’ve had an amazing year and an amazing life. And someday, like Coach Wooden, you will look back and people will look at your legacy many years later and you have an amazing legacy. Because it’s all the little things we do, one thing at a time, that makes all the difference.
SPEAKER 04 :
I remember you saying that to me years ago. If you can live your life that way, I can’t imagine how great life would be. Do you think that you live your life like that?
SPEAKER 09 :
I wish I could tell you I perfected it. One of the things I do when I strive to do this, I commit to doing fewer things. I’ve learned how to say no to certain things because saying no to the things you shouldn’t be doing leaves an opening for something really great to come along. And if you’re doing something in your life, it deserves to be done to the best of your ability. And if you don’t feel that way about it, you need to ask yourself, what if I don’t do this? Is this something I really ought to be doing? because there’s a right way and a wrong way to do everything. But if you’ll do every encounter, do everything that you do, as if you’re amazing, it will be. Because, you know, Angie, there are people listening to us right now that this will be the last time they ever listen to you and me. Life changes, things happen, and we shall not pass this way again. So, you know, you want to leave everybody… with something amazing and uh so uh to the extent you can strive to do that on everything you do and get rid of the other stuff you can have an amazing life what would i do right now if i were amazing did i get that right you are absolutely right all right so uh angie i’ve got to tell you we’ve been doing these things i don’t know how many years and you indeed are amazing
SPEAKER 04 :
Oh, so anything fun planned for his day? Are you going to the beach?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, well, I’m sitting in my living room, and the door opens, and there’s about an eight-foot patio one step down, and we’re on the beach. That’s where we are. And as soon as I’m done here, I’m going to sit out there a while, and then Miss Crystal, as she did yesterday, will be taking the kayak out into the middle of the bay, and then And it’s huge out there. It’s amazing. And she loves that. And across the bay, a couple miles away, is the West Coast Navy Yard. So there’s destroyers and things in them. She doesn’t get too close to them. But other than that, Miss Crystal will be out in her kayak along the West Coast here.
SPEAKER 04 :
Wow. Wow. Well, I absolutely love what you do. JimStoval.com. Thank you, friend. Have a great day.
SPEAKER 09 :
You are amazing. Thanks.
SPEAKER 06 :
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SPEAKER 02 :
Eagle is tuned to Colorado’s mighty 670 KLTT.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hello, Angie Austin here with the good news. Well, Chuck and Ashley Elliott are back and we are talking about, you know, their marriage counseling, but also their book. I used to be how to navigate large and small losses in life and find your path forward. Welcome back, Chuck and Ashley.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thanks for having us, Angie. We’re looking forward to chatting again.
SPEAKER 01 :
Hey.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right. I’m laughing to myself because in the break you mentioned that we’re going to talk about intimacy, relationship intimacy or sexual intimacy in a marriage. And I’m laughing because my husband and I have gone to a couple of marriage retreats earlier on, and I’m giggling already, in our marriage. And I think in some ways we’re kind of immature because they might make us sit like knee to knee, right? And we weren’t like 20-year-olds getting married. We were of 30 something year olds getting married. So we’d have to sit knee to knee and then look each other in the eye. And then he would start laughing. And then I would start laughing. I’m like, oh my gosh, like the teacher’s going to catch us.
SPEAKER 03 :
I mean, the pastor, you know, and so, and then, you know, he told me the last time I was going to put Comeric’s retreat, he said, I will go, but you have to assure me 100% that I do not have to talk to the pastor or anyone at the retreat about sex. You guys are like, hey, let’s talk about sex today. And I just couldn’t help laughing picturing him. The two of us like we’re in sex ed class. We’re 12 years old and we’re just hysterically giggling and we can’t stop. It’s so embarrassing that we’re so immature.
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, you know what? You can turn your head to the side and giggle while we talk about sex today. That’s what helps you out.
SPEAKER 03 :
Oh, gosh. OK, I’m like crying. I’m laughing so hard because it’s his fault, too. OK, so he’s not here. So I can keep it together. All right. Who wants to start? Shocker, Ashley.
SPEAKER 01 :
Well, I can start. I think so often we have just a difficult time with sexual intimacy, like talking about it, even thinking about it, because it is awkward. Sometimes it makes us laugh like a little kid. Sometimes it makes us clam up. Sometimes we have a lot of shame. And so something we’ve noticed in the church is that we often just don’t even talk about it. And so we know like, okay, you get married and yet you have babies. So that’s a part of it. But it is something that is often a big time barrier in marriage. It’s hard for people to talk about it. And so there’s not the improvement. And so we love creating a space for couples to talk about their intimacy and their desires because we find a great amount of success. Whenever people just have some simple conversations, they can gain a lot of progress pretty quickly.
SPEAKER 02 :
One of the reasons that it seems like the church doesn’t talk about it is because they’re scared of how to talk about it. So if you tell people don’t do something over and over again, you say, oh, don’t have sex, don’t have sex. You say this is something you should avoid. Don’t commit this sin. And then all of a sudden, when you have these newlyweds have a wedding night, all of a sudden they’re supposed to have a different perspective on what does it mean? And they’re supposed to think it’s a good thing. And sex is a good thing. It’s a gift from God, not just for procreation, but a gift between a husband and a wife. And that was the design of it. You’re intended. You’re designed to enjoy each other and enjoy each other’s bodies. But if you’re constantly given that message that it’s bad and it’s something to avoid. You don’t just make a switch because you stand at an altar and people come and eat cake around you on a night. So there’s some reprogramming that we think needs to happen in the conversations about sex when people are younger, all the way from being much younger probably than people are comfortable talking about at appropriate levels, parents helping with that and the church knowing how to facilitate those conversations. But then also what are expectations after somebody gets married?
SPEAKER 04 :
And so we’ll get into the reprogramming part and what you teach people. But I do agree with you that, you know, the church doesn’t know how to approach it, how to teach it or when. And I have been in settings where there have been younger kids or older people that maybe were offended by the conversation. And so it’s got to be in the right setting with couples. And obviously, the marriage retreat is the perfect place, like where my husband and I went. But I do recall that Pastor’s young son, who was maybe 22 at the time, decided that it was a good time for him to bring up his pornography addiction in the main service. And I couldn’t care less. It was fine with me if he wanted to talk about it. I saw some elderly couples leave and then there were kids, you know, there. And so I was like, if he told his dad that in advance, probably would be better for like the younger group, you know, like the 20-somethings or maybe the teen group to have that discussion, maybe not in the wide open, you know, entire service. So I think that in some ways, you know, the same discussion, anything adult is hard to talk about to the whole congregation.
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, and I certainly think it’s important to give a disclaimer if you’re going to be talking about some of these things in the church. But we’ve talked with our boys from a young age, and actually we had a camping experience where one of our boys came and said, someone showed me a butt, which we learned a couple of years later when he was in sex ed that what he saw was someone having sex. And so he didn’t understand or even know how to articulate that. But that was just another kid. And this was I mean, he was probably between seven to nine. And. And so this then piqued curiosity that I think we saw some behaviors, just curiosity in some books are like, what’s that? And we found it really important to have conversations and say, you know, God made sex and you’re a boy. And it’s great that that you are attracted to a female. But we want to keep that for the context of marriage. And I think so often parents are like, don’t do that. You’re too young. Don’t do that. You know, and we get all clammed up. Yes. We don’t want them to sin, but we also make them feel ashamed because they’re doing something that is somewhat natural, right? We don’t want kids to be shown pornography. We don’t want them getting into this topic too early, but it is okay to help them explore the way that God made them. And that’s something that we have a tension that we’re trying to manage in our family as far as raising up godly boys to be godly men who hopefully are free from pornography. But we see so much not just… you know, with, with pornography addiction and the men, there are women who are addicted as well and like to masturbation and these types of things. But we have couples that get married and they don’t want to have sex or one does and one doesn’t. And, and there’s sexual trauma and they don’t understand that there’s even trauma there that needs worked on. And so that’s something, you know, that as people share their stories, they can go, Oh yeah, Yeah, I had this experience happen. That makes sense why I don’t like that in my marriage. And sometimes they can free that up just by talking about it. And even this might sound crazy, but pray about it. Bring God into it. It seems wild sometimes. But God made that sexual intimacy between husband and wife, and he wants to be involved. We know the enemy is involved, right? The enemy hooks people with addiction, and we want to kick the enemy out and bring God in and say, Lord, help us to have love. a sex life that honors you instead of, you know, beats ourselves down.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. All right. And so what are some of the things that you teach when you do your couples events or your, you know, when you’re counseling a couple individually?
SPEAKER 02 :
Well, communication is a big part of sex. If you don’t talk about it, you don’t find out what is it that’s working for your partner and not working for your partner. And it seems like people sometimes think that Unless all of the fireworks just go off and everything seems to just fall into line perfectly, something’s wrong with either one of you, and you shouldn’t have to talk about it, and that’s wrong. The movies, media, so many things give us a bad message of what does it mean to be sexually intimate. And expectations can set things up, and as you already talked about, so sexualized culture can tell you something that is a lie, that is not what the intention is for it. And as Ashley already said, God wants our marriage bed to be holy. And what does it mean for something to be holy? It means that it’s set apart. So it’s a place that is special between a husband and a wife. And there could be something that people are bringing in mentally or ideas or things that they have from past relationships or bad experiences that it could be something that they need to have a conversation about. So getting on the same page with your partner and communicating about it the way that you would about your finances or parenting or another aspect of your relationship is It’s good to talk about that in the sexual relationship as well. And that sometimes takes some reprogramming, some ways that you’re going to think about things a little bit different.
SPEAKER 04 :
OK, so how are we reprogrammed?
SPEAKER 01 :
OK, well, for for one thing, if couples even can start with the fun. So any married couples could try this, just talking, hey, what’s something that I enjoy about our intimacy, and what’s a way we can bring God into it a little bit more? Those are a couple of light questions. If somebody really needs reprogramming, they’re like, I have low libido, my spouse has high libido, and I’m always frustrated, I’m always angry. We want to look beneath the surface. And so I would just ask some sort of questions. So tell me a little bit about, you know, when you started noticing that you had a lower libido. And oftentimes they maybe say there were some things that happened. Maybe they’re just kind of sharing their story. They’re like, I don’t know if there’s a direct tie. And sometimes we can tell and they can tell after we’ve had some conversation. And it’s OK if sometimes we don’t get that perfect, you know, this was the cause of But just the sharing does help bring some freedom to the conversation and to the to the relationship, because that just practicing talking about your needs is really powerful in and of itself. OK, OK.
SPEAKER 02 :
Praying before even having praying before sex. And you can even have worship music that’s going while you’re having sex, like having a connection. Sometimes people think that. The sexual things are dirty and God wouldn’t want to be involved in this. But if it’s an act of worship and you’re appreciating each other and the gift that God has given you in this marriage, then it’s God honoring in the way that you do it. So thinking, OK, how do we have a more spiritual encounter while we’re having a sexual encounter? And it. It is a longer process for some people than others because it could be very disconnected. It’s like, wait a second. That’s something that we do. And it’s in the dark and the doors are shut and we’re not allowed to talk about it to anybody. You’re telling me that God wants to be involved in that. It’s like God wants to be involved in every part of your life and he wants every part of your life to be honoring of him. So praying about it and saying, oh, God, how do we honor you in this aspect of our relationship?
SPEAKER 04 :
I love that. What do you think that people get held up on, that they trip up on, that you find when you’re reprogramming, when you’re speaking with couples who maybe have hit a bump in the road or just trying to get them to progress to better communication? What do you see as the biggest roadblock?
SPEAKER 01 :
I think one of the things is that people don’t always take the time to look at it. So whenever we have sessions where people are talking about intimacy, then a roadblock could be just getting them to be comfortable talking about it. But when they do, we find that there’s a higher success rate than I think sometimes just teaching communication skills because we have some very hardwired tendencies that are difficult to break. But whenever we do, you know, gain ground there is a pretty quick pretty quick fix so one of the things that I did was someone that did not feel like they could appreciate like physical touch or foreplay or any of those things had them write down like what are some triggers for you so if you know that you’re triggered sexually like what’s triggering you is it whenever someone touches you in a specific way or if they’re too quick and You know, like literally listing them. And I’ve had people, you know, sometimes it’s just a couple of things. Sometimes the list is quite long. And then we can dissect it a little further and go, OK, can you pinpoint, you know, what you’re feeling in that moment? And sometimes it’s people say like, oh, I close my eyes or I just say no. And so understanding, oh, I’m feeling triggered. If I can talk about that and help my my spouse to understand what I’m feeling, that will help. And then maybe they can understand how to meet my need as well.
SPEAKER 02 :
One of the things we see is people think that if they talk about it, it makes it less pleasurable.
SPEAKER 01 :
Oh, interesting.
SPEAKER 02 :
If you ask for something, you think it’s going to be less pleasurable if they do it. And sometimes there’s guilt and all kinds of things that are wrapped up into that that could be more complicated. But if we talk about it and say, no, I don’t like it when you do whatever it is and fill in the blank. I’d like for you to do this instead. They think, well, that takes the spontaneity and the fun and the joy out of it. It’s like, no, you’re communicating to your partner. You’re telling them what your needs are, and them meeting your needs is actually very spiritually and physically intimate.
SPEAKER 01 :
But it can be hard. I mean, it’s hard for me sometimes to ask for what I want, especially if it is to say this doesn’t feel good. You know, it’s a delicate thing where we don’t want to insult each other. I think a way that I’ve worked around is really trying to focus on the positive and say, this is what I really like. I would like more of this. I’ve found that to be easier for me. And I found other couples, you know, that have said that as well. OK, I can do that. I can do that. But even increasing that communication can be hard for people. So giving yourself permission to say, OK, I’m doing something difficult. A lot of people have a hard time with this, but I don’t want to leave this area of my marriage in the dark. I want to help, you know, help it be strong, not mediocre, but above average.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and obviously we’re almost out of time, but obviously you two had to become comfortable talking about it because you can’t really help marriages unless you can talk about this because it’s a component, you know, marriages. So ChakaNashley.com, you can get in touch with them for coaching, you know, marriage help. And the book is I Used to Be How to Navigate Large and Small Losses in Life and Find Your Path Forward. Thanks, Chaka Nashley. Thank you. Thank you so much, Angie. It’s always a pleasure.
SPEAKER 08 :
Thank you for listening to The Good News with Angie Austin on AM670 KLTT.
