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John Rush and guest Steve House dive into a controversial but important conversation around modern healthcare, organ donation, and the ethics of bioprinting. Starting with the sudden passing of Hulk Hogan, the discussion shifts to a deeper exploration of what’s really going on behind the scenes with hospitals and the organ transplant industry. Are living patients being harvested too early? Who profits from donated organs? And what happens when 3D-printed organs become viable for the wealthy?
The episode also takes on hard questions about fairness in medical treatment, the growing concierge medicine model, and why the average American may be
SPEAKER 04 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 11 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 03 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 10 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job, sir. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 07 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 10 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 16 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush, presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 04 :
And it’s Thursday, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Steve House joining me today during this first hour. Steve, welcome. How are you, sir?
SPEAKER 15 :
I am doing well, sir. How are you?
SPEAKER 04 :
Always great. Always good to have you. Dr. Kelly couldn’t join us today because we got kind of notched down today because she’s filling in for Dr. Drew.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I know. I mean, we could have done that show with her and probably even jumped the ratings up a bit.
SPEAKER 04 :
You have a lot more faith than I do.
SPEAKER 05 :
Maybe the ratings would have been impacted, but not exactly.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, there you go. There you go. Exactly. Well, and for all of you, before we get going today, yes, there’s news out today, unless you haven’t seen, maybe you haven’t watched anything or seen anything. Hulk Hogan, who is a huge Trump supporter, by the way, Steve, passed away.
SPEAKER 05 :
I know, 71 is pretty young. I mean, it’s not that far into the future for us, John.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, and so I wanted to start with this on purpose because I don’t know, Steve. I don’t know the background of these individuals. Everything seems to run in threes, and Charlie and I were talking about that earlier today. So you look at the folks that have passed away this week, and by the way, none of them being extremely old, in my opinion. Ozzie maybe being a little older and probably not living quite the clean life that others do. But you look at a guy like… like Hulk Hogan, and granted, he probably had some steroid use and some things like that maybe back in the day, but then you’ve got to start wondering, okay, how many of these guys got the jab?
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I mean, Hulk Hogan might have used steroids. I don’t think there’s a might about that. I mean, he lost his hair. He had all the symptoms. I mean, he definitely did. True. True. But yeah, we don’t know about the jab. I mean, I was debating that earlier with a couple of people about whether or not he probably had the jab. I think it’s Reasonable to think so, but he just had had surgery for something else. I know that. So he had surgery. He could have had a blood clot. To me, it was something like that that he did. So he could have had a blood clot that may have caused his death.
SPEAKER 04 :
And again, I don’t know. My point was, my wife and I were talking about this earlier, Steve, and it’s more of just, I think, curiosity as to, you know, we’re seeing… People die. I mean, granted, people die all the time. I mean, it’s a known thing. You know, one of the guarantees of life. We all have the same time per day, and we’re all going to die at some point in time. I get that. But when you look at some, especially some of these celebrities, and you look at the age that they’re passing away at, you know, you have to start wondering why. Yeah, I mean…
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I mean, it’s interesting because clearly Hulk Hogan, with his body type, he wasn’t easy on himself, that’s for sure. No, true. Ozzy was a rock star, right? True. About what it was like to be a rock star and the fact that, you know, not only were you required to do cocaine, you had to have enough to share, you know, with people. And so, you know, Ozzy was in it during that period of time. True. Big-time drugs were involved, so that has to take its toll. Malcolm Jamal Warner was an accident from what I understand.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, he drowned, right? you know swimming so yeah I mean that that kind of thing happens but yeah that one yeah that’s kind of the outlier but but my point was you know these aren’t the only three we see others we’ve seen others and yeah granted some you know some continue to live on and still are and you know you always wonder about some of those that are in that you know quote-unquote lifestyle because let’s just face it Steve they haven’t lived the same kind of life that You and I have. Now, I’ll be the first to admit that have I always watched what I eat and been super healthy along those lines? No. But have I ever been an alcoholic, drug addict, strung out all the time and so on? No, I haven’t done that either.
SPEAKER 05 :
No. I mean, we’re kind of average if you think about it. We live an average life in terms of our – You know, our drug use, our physical food, how we treat our bodies. I mean, maybe a little bit better than average, a little bit more workouts than some people do, but we’re basically average. They are at peaks and valleys. Not only is it the food, it’s the drugs, it’s also the level of stress you go through.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s true, too.
SPEAKER 05 :
Because you have lots and lots of people in most cases where they’re depending on you for financial support. I mean, no celebrity doesn’t have an entourage of some sort around them. Good point. So you’ve got to payroll, you’ve got to pay. I mean, you do that too, but their stress and pressures are certainly higher than ours, I’m sure.
SPEAKER 04 :
You know, great point. I hadn’t really thought through that part of it, and that’s why you’re here always to straighten things out and give us better ideas than even what I have. And I hadn’t thought about that part of it, and you’re right. I mean, they, in a way, are their own business, I guess you could say. It’s not quite like a regular business, but… It is, to your point. They’ve got people that are there, support staff and so on, the entourage, I guess you would call it. In some cases, they’re needed. In other cases, Steve, they’re leeches and they’re just there because they’re trying to suck off whatever they can off of that particular individual. But no matter what, there’s pressure there that happens to that particular person.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and I mean, how many celebrities are we aware of, big-time athletes, too, that get taken by their managers for millions of dollars, go bankrupt? I mean, there’s lots of that kind of stuff on there. I mean, it’s Money management, it’s life management, it’s temptation, it’s the stress and pressure of being famous. It’s far different than what you and I deal with.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, we’re going to take our first break early because when we come back, I want to talk about this whole organ donor topic. We’ll do that here in just one moment. Again, folks, if you had a question for us, by all means, send me a text message, 307-282-22, 307-282-22. Let’s talk about, and Dr. Kelly actually tweeted this out, sent this to both you and I, and her tweet exactly, or her ex-post exactly was, this will most certainly cause many to remove organ donor from their driver’s licenses. and families will be very hesitant to agree to donation on behalf of loved ones, and that is because of an HHS probe that finds organ donations being authorized for patients still showing signs of life, Steve.
SPEAKER 05 :
I know, that’s just, I mean, you know, there have been all kinds of so-called angels in the world in health care over the years, you know, people who did extraordinary things to help save one person but may have compromised someone else. I mean, that’s happened over the years. This seems like it’s a little bit more and broader, right? I mean, you know, look, if I’m the person that’s going to be an organ donor and I’m alive and I’ve got a chance to come back and spend some time with my loved ones, I certainly don’t want you to take my lungs and heart out. I mean, I’d like to have an opportunity to do that. The bigger issue here is What happens to some people who allow themselves to cross that line?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, and I think part of – I saw an article and a video on this the other day, and I didn’t really – I mean, I should have known this, Steve. Again, you don’t realize some of this until you start doing some investigative work on it, but – And I don’t know how this would change is what I wanted to talk about today. I thought this would be a great topic to start off with. So the way it works for all of you listening, and maybe some of you know this because you’ve been through this. Maybe some of you don’t know how this works. But as you know, Steve, you of all people would know this as those organs get harvested. And, folks, it can be everything from – Steve, as you know, it can be everything from, you know, bones. It can be eyes. It can be organs. I mean, it isn’t just organs in a lot of cases. It can be skin – I mean, all sorts of things that can happen in that regard. And it’s big dollars. I don’t know what an entire good, solid, livable, you know, body and all the organs that are healthy – auto accidents, something along those lines, Steve. I don’t know what that actually brings, but it is in the several hundred thousands of dollars, if not more, when it’s all said and done. And what I’ve learned is that a lot of the organizations, hospitals included, get to reap the benefits of all of that money. And depending upon the circumstances of the person that died, the family could be left holding the bag for all sorts of bills, depending upon what kind of care that auto accident victim by the way had to go through what kind of insurance they’ve got for example they may be left holding the bag for a big bill with the hospital and yet the hospital if they’re an organ donor is reaping hundreds of thousands of dollars in return yeah it’s not it’s a crazy thing because even this week you know talking to hospitals about infusion therapy and i’m going to weave this back to what you just asked infusion therapy is one of those therapies where
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s either chemotherapy or it’s an infusion, meaning it’s an IV for rheumatoid arthritis, any number of things, right? And hospitals know that for infusion therapy, they can bill $10,000 or $8,000 for something that costs them $120 because it’s the standard of care and they have essentially a monopoly on it. Wow. So the things that they have a monopoly on is, And or, you know, this whole restaurant analogy we’ve talked about in the past. You know, health care is like going to a restaurant, no prices on the menu. You order your food. It comes. When the bill comes, you don’t know what the bill is going to be until they determine the table next to you couldn’t pay. So you have to pay part of their bill plus your bill. And you’ve got to pay the bartender, you know, the busboy and everybody. This big mystery. Health care has actually, the rules are there’s zero limitations. Zero limitations. limitations that in terms of what you can charge someone there there’s no regard i mean not everybody will pay exactly what they charge but they want to charge you 150 000 for a knee surgery they can charge you that your insurance company will pay a certain amount you are technically obligated to the remainder so that’s part of the problem right so organ donor organ donations are important they obviously a liver transplant costs 450 000 for some people $250,000 for other people. When you have that kind of money at play, John, it is sometimes, you know, no doubt, you know, not passing the test that we would pass for both professional business and moral and ethical behavior.
SPEAKER 04 :
Makes sense. Again, we’ll come back, talk more about that. As I said a moment ago, Dr. Scott’s coming up next. And if you have, again, if you want to talk to other things just like we do, please give Scott a call. He’s there for you. 303-663-6990.
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SPEAKER 15 :
No liberal media bias here. This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, Steve House with us again. Dr. Kelly is actually filling in for Dr. Drew today, so not with us. And, Steve, one thing that was in this post that Dr. Kelly put up, there was a follow-up video, and there’s some quotation that goes with this, but that’s from Dr. Paul Byrne talking about how they invented brain death mainly to get organs, but they also don’t waste money treating people who aren’t ever going to get a job. In other words, they’ve figured out a way to where they can harvest organs even while some, quote-unquote, People are alive. They put paralyzing agents in them and so on. Again, this is all stuff I’m just reading. I have no proof, folks that are listening, that any of this is going on. Although, Steve, I think in today’s world, given what we’ve gone through for the past four or five years, nothing would shock me.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, it would not. I mean, you know, the rumors of, you know, people in China living until 125, 130, you know, even longer because of a combination of you know, organ transplants, adrenochrome, which is, you know, obviously an anti-aging concept, you know, born from creating stress in an individual and then taking the adrenochrome out of them, which helps them with their aging. I mean, those rumors have been going on for many years. Who knows where we’re going next? I mean, we haven’t really seen a lot on cloning since, you know, Dolly the Sheep. And, you know, we’ve got, you know, some of the stuff that’s out there that’s kind of strange, but I wouldn’t be surprised by anything, including, you know,
SPEAKER 04 :
taken an organ the thing that’s coming in the very near future though is 3d printing organs okay um you know that may eliminate the organ donation process for a lot of things a lot of the simple things anyway okay explain how i mean everything to my knowledge 3d printing wise is either done you know you can do it in concrete you can do it in in plastic you can do it you know other ways i didn’t know you could do it organ wise so how i’m confused how do you do that as you know for an organ how does that work
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, I had a job in health care not that many years ago, I mean less than 10 years ago, where my job was to look at innovation. And one of the things that they’ve been working on for a while is they create a plastic framework. Let’s say that you need a kidney. Kidney’s not that big. They make a plastic framework that is compatible with your body. Then they put stem cells on it. And they understand how to turn them on to make them into kidney cells. They may use some existing kidney cells to do it. And they grow on that framework into an organ. And then they transplant that organ into your body. It’s not being done today, but it’s not far away. It just isn’t.
SPEAKER 04 :
I had no idea. That is totally news to me. I had no clue they could do that.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. I mean, they’ve been talking about transplanting isolate cells. for a while as well. Isocells are what your pancreas uses to produce insulin so that you can cure diabetes. So there’s stuff like that out there that’s in the innovation. We used to talk about this stuff until Dr. Kelly got involved and we had to get real and clinical.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right, exactly. I remember some of those days. This whole printing thing, we’ve never talked about that one. It makes sense now that you say that. I guess it makes total sense. And I can see where if that took off and that became viable. And I’m guessing if they’re using growing – that organ from your own stem cells, your body’s acceptance rate of it would probably be much higher than it would be otherwise, or am I thinking wrong?
SPEAKER 05 :
No, I think you’re absolutely right about that. I mean, if you think about it, they’re going to do all kinds of things that are relevant and important. They’re going to 3D print blood vessels for replacement of blood vessels. They use patient cells, they use stem cells, they use a lot of things, but They really refer to it as a bioprinter, not just a 3D printer, but essentially the same thing. I think the timeline I saw most recently was somewhere in the 10-year timeframe before you would see it.
SPEAKER 04 :
Which goes by really fast, by the way. That’s not that far away.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. And if it was the 10-year timeframe and you could actually at some point in the reasonably near future do skin as well. Wow. Imagine the, you know, you could, people that were burn victims, but also people who were aging, you know, you could reprint the skin if you had a valid way of transplanting and people could live for long periods of time.
SPEAKER 04 :
Amazing. Okay, so here’s a question I had for you knowing you were going to be on today because it’s something I’ve been rattling around. After watching this whole – and I originally had saw a video on the organ donation end of things and the value that’s there and so on. And then in one particular article I was reading, literally this particular family when it was all said and done – had extremely, extremely high bills, and yet the particular facilities, plural, were reaping in all of this money from that particular individual. And part of this article was talking about have we gotten to a point and how would you, and this is the question I have for you, how would you, because you don’t want to incentivize families to sell the property parts of their family members, but there’s got to be a way if they agree to do that and that person is now, you know, they’ve agreed to do it and the family’s going to receive, you know, they’re going to give these organs away. Is there any way for the family to receive some of that money back to cover some of the expenses? Are we getting into some real ethical issues that we shouldn’t do?
SPEAKER 05 :
I don’t believe that they would allow that to be legal because you would literally have the conflict you’re describing, which is hey, you know what, I’ve got five brothers and sisters. There’s one of them I don’t like that much. We could all use some cash, right?
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, yeah. We’ll just sell off Uncle Bob.
SPEAKER 05 :
Let’s tee him up, right? I mean, in fact, if he’s got Alzheimer’s and doesn’t remember anything, how long do you let somebody with Alzheimer’s live? Now, keep in mind that people who generally have Alzheimer’s are older, and their organs may not be a great transplant vehicle, but I really believe probably near the end of our lives, But before the end of our lives, we’ve been doing pig organ transplant, especially livers from pigs, into humans for a long time. Correct. The transplant business will go from human harvesting to bioprinting to almost like plastic surgery in a way, right? So people have plastic surgery to do anti-aging stuff. It’s a facelift. It’s lipo. It’s all that type of stuff. I think organ transplantation, once the bioprinter is up and running fully, will become an anti-aging process that you do just like you would plastic surgery. Wow. It’s just inside the body.
SPEAKER 04 :
So now what you’re really talking about are some of the things you and I used to get into back in the day. Now you’re getting into this whole realm, though, of – and some of this is like sci-fi movies where you’ve got the better-than-average individual that can afford these things financially that now has the ability to do these things versus those that can’t afford to go to the doctor when they have a cold. Right. Question is, is that going to create even a larger chasm with what you’re talking about?
SPEAKER 05 :
I know. I mean, that’s a great question. The odds are it would because you’d have to have the money to do it. You know, those who can and those who can’t. that line is separating people, industries, business growth in every aspect.
SPEAKER 04 :
It is. Well, and it always has. I mean, this is something that, you know, I’m not trying to be critical of any of this, Steve. It is what it is. I mean, from the beginning of, let’s go back even to the automobile era, which, you know, was my background. So you look at when the Model T really became popular and Henry Ford wanted that so that it could be the type of automobile everybody can own, because prior to that, literally, Steve, only the wealthy had automobiles because they just weren’t cheap enough to be able to afford. Henry Ford fixed that, of course, but that was a great example of where only those that could afford it had cars, those that didn’t, or those that couldn’t, didn’t.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and, you know, let’s take it to another level, and this is, I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but you know, in reality, if you think about it, if only the people who have money and you probably, I mean, if you’re willing to pay almost anything, you know, 15 years from now, you can have somebody print you a kidney, a liver, a skin transplant, whatever. If you have enough money, you can buy it. But fundamentally the average person getting those kinds of upgrades to their body will mean that society will be separated to those who have good genetics and a lot of money versus those who don’t have good genetics and are poor. Where does that fall on the spectrum of what – I mean, I don’t know how to say this, but anyone who does genocide, you know, it’s usually done by race. It’s done by something like that. Are we getting into an area that says we’re going to do selection of who lives and dies, who is young, who doesn’t age, who does – age and lives poorly, are we going to get to that point because we can transplant just about anything in a human body to make it younger again?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, these are things, in my opinion, that, yes, I think we could get there. We’re going to have to be careful that we implement the right things, that that doesn’t happen. On the same token, and this is where – I mean, this is a long subject. We could talk several weeks in a row on this one, Steve, because on the same token, do I think it’s fair – that anybody anywhere would get the same treatment. And this is where I have struggles even today. I don’t think in today’s world, depending upon what you’ve done, and I’m getting into some shaky areas where some people probably aren’t going to agree with me, but depending upon what you’re doing, how you’re contributing to society, and so on. In other words, are you sucking off the system? Are you adding value to the system? Reality is, I’m one today where I don’t feel like if you’re If you’re not adding value, and I’ve got to be careful what I say here, but if you’re not adding value and you’re just sucking off the system, how much care, medically speaking, can we really allow that person to have at the end of the day, especially if there’s someone that hasn’t taken good care of themselves in the first place? And I know these are ethical things we’re talking about, and it’s a deep subject, and you and I aren’t going to fix it in one day, but you have to ask those questions.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, I mean, they were asked, and they were shelved during the Obamacare debate because Much like the National Health Service in England, as well as Obamacare, there are comparative effectiveness formulas and panels in there. And what a comparative effectiveness formula is exactly what you described. John Rush, 59 years old. He’s 12 pounds overweight. His genetic history is a family that gets prostate cancer. Some of them have intestinal cancer. He has a job. He produces this much income. He actually pays this much in taxes. So, therefore, this formula with all that mixed up says if he’s going to get a transplanted liver that costs $400,000 plus rehab and some other costs, let’s say it’s all in half a million dollars, will John contribute enough to society to be subsidized to get that liver or not? And when that formula comes out negative, this is a very simplistic view of how this works, but it’s not that far off. When that formula comes up negative, the answer is no.
SPEAKER 04 :
Right. Right.
SPEAKER 05 :
So it already exists. It’s built into Obamacare. It’s been that way from the beginning. We haven’t used it that way. But essentially, I mean, guys like Bill Gates who want to reduce the size of the population would say, look, man, if you’re over like 63 and you’re retired and your net worth only takes you through, you know, the next three or four years and then you live entirely off the system. we should probably keep you around for three or four years because you can burn through your retirement income. And then by the time you get to depending on Social Security and Medicare completely, it’s time for you to go.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. And again, these are really ethical questions that, frankly, Steve, are things that you’d really have to think through, discuss. I don’t have a particular opinion one way or the other. I’m just saying that I can see those days coming. In fact, in a lot of ways, Steve, some of that happens now. Although, here’s my biggest complaint with what we have happening right now. I think some of what’s going on, I don’t want to get your opinion on this, some of what we have going on right now is kind of the opposite of that. And let me explain. If you’re on Medicaid… and you’re at a point where you can’t afford health insurance or you’ve gotten stuck on Medicaid because of whatever reason, you’re living in mom’s basement, whatever the case may be, there are chances, Steve, that depending upon how old you are and what kind of a condition you have, you may end up with better care than somebody like you or I that actually doesn’t have Medicaid. We do have health insurance. We are contributing to society. We are paying taxes. I could say right now, almost make a case for the fact that we’re doing it the opposite of what you just said.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yep. I mean, need is based on almost entirely finance and demographics. So, you know, it’s been that way for a long time. I mean, if that’s what the need is versus this is the difference between a welfare program, a social welfare program, and investing in society’s growth, longevity, and you know, well-being, right? So an investment is make sure that the producers continue to produce as long as they can, give them incentive, make sure they’re healthy, et cetera, et cetera, and make more producers. And the other structure it is, you know, take care of those who can’t take care of themselves. Maybe they don’t want to take care of themselves. Take care of them so that they can continue to exist. It’s part of why health care doesn’t work. I mean, I was with a COO and a CFO yesterday and, you know, basically said, it’s going to fail. And I’m like, I know it’s going to fail. It’s partly going to fail because we approach it exactly the way you described, which is take care of the people who are sick, who can’t afford to take care of themselves. We’ll all pay for it. And the way we end up paying for it is access to care, less health care, more expensive care. That doesn’t help anybody.
SPEAKER 04 :
No, no. And again, I wasn’t meaning to be, you know, I’m not trying to be critical of any group of individuals, by the way, that’s not the case. I’m just simply stating that Thank you very much. adults and all of a sudden something happens to whereby they end up needing some procedure or they get cancer or something along those lines happens. And if they’ve got, you know, depending upon the health care that they have, the insurance policy, I should say that they have, Steve, they may actually get worse care than that person that’s not doing all the things I just mentioned and ends up with cancer and are on Medicaid.
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s absolutely true. Now, on the other hand, And part of the reason why these conversations are not being had is because woke took us away from having philosophical, critical thinking kind of conversation.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, well, and nobody wants to be, you know, quote unquote, rude to someone else in society. And I’m not trying to be, Steve. I’m just simply stating, here’s the facts. Here’s what we have going on in today’s world in the United States of America. As we speak, we have certain groups of individuals that aren’t contributing to society, getting better health care in some cases than those that are. That’s absolutely true.
SPEAKER 05 :
The one thing that we have to do is we have to remember that, you know, when a child is born, they’re born into whatever circumstances, you know, in my mind it’s, you know, God selects them to be in. The most important part is, you know, the state constitution of Colorado says you have to educate them. I think that you have to broaden the definition of education that starts a little bit earlier, but it’s really designed to give them a chance to have the same opportunity to grow, be wealthy, be successful, be healthy as everyone else. And so often we have a strategy, especially in politics, where it says, you know, those people who live in those 12 blocks, let’s make sure they got, you know, SNAP and social welfare programs and that they’re quiet. We don’t want them protesting and demonstrating in the office of the local congressman. Let’s keep them quiet. So give them just enough to stay there. But it doesn’t give them a chance to be healthy. They live in food deserts. They live in
SPEAKER 04 :
neighborhoods where the roads are crappy even though taxes are being paid those are the kind of things that we need to philosophically figure out and i can’t argue any of that at all by the way and i think you’re by the way you’re 100 correct in all of that and that’s exact and some of that by the way and i think you would agree with me here uh depending upon what political party you’re in is by design it is it is because um the government is
SPEAKER 05 :
a long, long time ago, decided it didn’t like God, because if people turn to God, they don’t turn to the government. So what you do is, the real simple strategy is, I’m going to help you understand that we have a problem. That problem could be anything in or out of the Constitution or otherwise, but let’s just say we’ve got a problem because we don’t have enough money in the city budget to have clean water. And then I’m going to tell you why you are to blame for it. Citizen John Rush, you’re to blame for the water problem because you didn’t pay your taxes or enough taxes or declare enough income. But here’s the deal, John. I, the government, I’m going to solve the problem for you. So you need me. So I’m going to create a problem, blame you for it, and then get you to realize that you need me to solve it for you. And that’s going to keep you dependent on the things I do as a government. And that is what’s wrong with America in its simple terms.
SPEAKER 04 :
Absolutely. Okay, great segue. We’ll come back, keep talking about this. Questions, comments, please send me a text message, 307-200-8222. Roof Savers of Colorado coming up next. Don’t forget, he can extend the life of your current roof, fix your roof, replace it, whatever is needed. Commercial, residential, all under one roof, 303-710-6916.
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SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 14 :
David Gonzalez here, owner of Mile High Coin. I understand how intimidating it can be to value or liquidate a collection, especially if it was inherited. Maybe you’re just downsizing and trying to clear out some space. I’ve been in the precious metals industry for over 36 years, and in that time I’ve worked with just about every kind of person and situation you can imagine. At Mile High Coin, our goal is to educate and guide you so you walk away feeling confident and satisfied with the outcome. We help you understand the real value of what you own. We make the whole process simple and stress-free. Whether it’s jewelry, coins, high-end watches, we’re your local accredited resource for accurate evaluations and honest appraisals. For KLZ listeners, we offer a no-charge, no-obligation appraisal. Just go to milehighcoin.com. or call 720-370-3400 to schedule an appointment. That’s 720-370-3400. I look forward to serving you. The best export we have is common sense. You’re listening to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 04 :
And we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Steve House with us today. Dr. Kelly normally is, but she’s filling in for Dr. Drew today. And Steve, one of the questions that I have for you, especially because we used to do a show constantly on just innovation and where are we at and the Internet of Things and so on. We used to have a lot of fun doing that. And maybe at some point we can get back to some of that because I always enjoyed that. But the question I have for you is because of where we’re at with all of the nonsense that happens inside of the health care end of things, insurance and so on, Obamacare, the things you mentioned a moment ago, have we encouraged growth in health care? In other words, innovation in health care, you know, coming up with new ideas, new things and so on. Are we stifling it or has there been no change?
SPEAKER 05 :
I think we’re encouraging growth. The problem is there’s a intense. over-utilization, not over-utilization, under-supply of capital in most healthcare systems right now. They don’t have enough cash flow. I mean, I was at a place yesterday that’s about $600 million, $650 million in total net revenue, but has a negative, you know, $15, $18 million in net income. It’s hard to generate capital, and that’s not all that unusual. It just isn’t, so…
SPEAKER 04 :
And that’s because of the cost of insurance doesn’t pay for everything. There’s a certain amount of individuals coming in that can’t pay. On and on we go.
SPEAKER 05 :
Well, that, but also, I mean, as you, you know, we’ve talked about this in the past. I mean, it’s been a while, but, you know, Medicare, which is one of the biggest payers of health care, buyers of health care, is both a buyer and a regulator. So they make rules in many cases that are anti-capitalist, anti-competitive. that are costly and expensive, and there’s just no way around it. I mean, they’re just they do that. They provide the regulations and then they set the standards with the lowest possible pay of anybody but Medicaid. They both come out of CMS. But so now I’m regulating and I’m paying the lease and you have to do what I tell you to do so they can do whatever they want. I mean, Congress routinely reduces what hospitals are paid now. At the same time, do I think every hospital is really, really efficient? No. I think there’s plenty of efficiency that could be gained, but it just hasn’t happened all that regularly.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay. Outside of the efficiency fixes, how do we fix this?
SPEAKER 05 :
People have to get healthier. I mean, it’s just people just need to get healthier. I mean, that’s the one thing that would change everything is if people had hypertension, you know, worked on lowering their blood pressure, people have diabetes, you know, get healthier. People who are obese get healthier. You just have to consume less. Okay. The demand is so high that the cost is high as well. There’s a three-legged stool in health care, cost, quality, and access.
SPEAKER 04 :
Okay.
SPEAKER 05 :
So you can only have two of the three. That’s always been the case. You can have cost and quality, but that means that it’ll be hard to get an appointment. You can get an appointment, and you can have quality, but it’s going to cost a whole bunch.
SPEAKER 06 :
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER 05 :
Or you can get an appointment and you can have low cost, but quality is going to suffer. It’s just the way it works.
SPEAKER 04 :
And this is where, and you and I talked about this, gosh, years ago now, all the way back, I think even before Dr. Kelly started joining us, you and I were talking about how the concierge doctors like Dr. Scott, who’s one of our sponsors, how they would crop up and become a bigger and bigger aspect of what’s going on healthcare-wise. And by the way, you were spot on because that’s exactly what’s happening.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, it is. I mean, you know, what happens with guys like Dr. Scott is the stats say that if you have a doctor who pays attention to you the way he does or in a concierge mode. What happens is that they have 80-some percent less people going to the emergency department. Right. They’re healthier. Yeah. If Dr. Scott sees somebody, it’s a $50, $80 expense. If someone goes to the emergency department, it’s $5,000.
SPEAKER 04 :
Correct. Correct.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah. No, and the other thing Dr. Scott does, which not to do a commercial for him, but we talked about this years ago, what he’s doing is also looking at all of the other innovations that that are out there kind of back to the whole you know what can we do to make you live longer stay healthier and do some things by the way you’re not going to hear your normal doctor’s office because a they don’t have time b they’re being regulated on what they can and can’t do c their health care industry itself and what they’re involved in may not even look highly upon that particular thing and so at the end of the day no you’re not going to hear about any of that stuff from your regular doctor for those reasons No, you’re not.
SPEAKER 05 :
I mean, you think about this one scenario where you have a government and the payers who pay for health care, that’s in Blue Cross Blue Shield, you know, Humanity United, et cetera. They essentially will not pay you unless you document to them electronically an electronic medical record. So physicians and hospitals have to go out and buy a product, a product they would not choose to buy in many cases if they did not have to. They have to buy it, and then they spend 29 out of 30 days in every month logging on to catch up to provide the documentation to get paid for the work they’re doing. You know, you give people an invoice when they’re walking out the door having done a complex, you know, realignment. Maybe you’ve replaced, you know, upper control arms and all kinds of stuff and done braking, and that’s all very complicated. You provide an invoice, they pay the invoice, they go home. It’s not that way in healthcare. You send an invoice in, you get denied. I mean, the whole process is just ridiculously complicated for no reason.
SPEAKER 04 :
Where you then take a Dr. Scott, literally, and if he was here, he’d be agreeing with everything we’re talking about, by the way. In his case, he’s doing exactly what the auto repair shop is doing, only he’s doing it much better, much faster, and is making you healthier at the end of the day. Because in his case, by the way, Steve, it’s not that he doesn’t want to see you, but the reality is he wants you to be healthy. It isn’t a matter of him not wanting to see you. He wants to see you for the health reasons, not because you’re sick.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. And Dr. Scott and other concierge docs also know one thing that works extremely well, which is if I spend time with you, if Dr. Scott sits down with you, John Rush for an hour, which, by the way, we just did a couple of days ago.
SPEAKER 04 :
So that’s exactly what we did.
SPEAKER 05 :
Right. So you spend an hour. So you really have a serious conversation about. You know, eating habits, exercise, some of the things about, you know, your health status that are really, really important. Therefore, from that point until the next time he sees you, you can exchange text messages with him. You can call him. You can get the things you need because he understands what you understand, what you believe about your body, how you’re taking care of yourself, and what you’re inclined to do. What we do otherwise is they see you for five to ten minutes. once a year and then, you know, try to catch up with you either because you ended up in the ER and you’re admitted to a hospital or it’s next year and it’s time for your physical again.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s exactly right. So, question for you is… I think, number one, I mean, every time I go into Scott’s office, it’s jammed with people. I was just there on Tuesday, and, you know, I’m waiting to see him. Not very long, because Scott knows me and makes that, you know, very transparent, very easy, and so on. And his business is – I mean, I just asked him. I said, man, you look like you’re really busy. He’s like, yep, we’re booming. We’re doing well. I mean, this time of the year, things are going to be down just a little bit because people are on vacations and so on. But at the end of the day, it’s booming. And so the question I have for you, Steve, is why do – Maybe that’s a dumb question, but why do more doctors not go that direction?
SPEAKER 05 :
I think a lot of them don’t think their patients will pay the extra. You know, you need to have about 300, 350 people who are willing to pay somewhere between $1,800 and $2,400 a year extra to get a concierge doc. Any doctor who, I mean, unless you’re the kind of doctor, if you’re a true scientist, introverted scientist, and you don’t necessarily like talking to people all that much, being a concierge doc is a lot of fun.
SPEAKER 04 :
It’s not going to work for you.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right. Yeah, you won’t do it the other way. It’s more fun because you get more attention. I mean, look, you maybe do this at your shops, right? I mean, if I walk in and you’re my mechanic or you’re the guy that cares for my car soup to nuts, if we walk around that car, talk about it, look at the engine, we have a conversation, You know, that kind of conversation for someone like me, I’d love that. It doesn’t ever happen, but I would love that. Because I want to really talk about, hey, you know, look, you should really be worried, not worried, but see this belt?
SPEAKER 06 :
Yep.
SPEAKER 05 :
Every once in a while I want you to pop the hood and take a look at this belt because it’s wearing a little bit. So don’t worry about it. I don’t think you’re going to have a problem any time in the near future, but I want you to look at it every once in a while for peace of mind. Like, I don’t get that, and I would love that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Which is odd because, A, I coach all of my shops to do exactly what you’re talking about. Did that in my own shops for three decades. Had the type of client like you, which I think for me, Steve, one of the reasons why I was able to learn as much as I’ve been able to about a lot of the topics we talk about is because, A, having a business in Boulder and Fort Collins, but my main business for Boulder for so many years, a lot of my customers were upper-end executives for places like Ball Aerospace, IBM, Storage Tech, Sun, Oracle. I mean, all of these different guys, that incubator of folk that were in the Boulder area, I was able to rub elbows with a lot of the guys at the upper ends of those things, in some cases, the founders of. And I had the ability to talk to people that, frankly, Steve, you couldn’t have paid to talk to.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right. You couldn’t. And that’s, I mean, it’s good for you too, right? Because you’re getting business feedback. Exactly. And, you know, business education at the same time. And, you know, most business owners should do that. I think good concierge docs, you know, if they’ve got a good cross-section of patients, will learn a little bit about everyone’s industry. Everyone’s, you know, background themselves. Agree. They’re going to come out and go, Oh, it’s a farmer. How do I grow chickens? What do I do with eggs?
SPEAKER 04 :
Some people just being a regular, you know, person that went into work and did their thing. And so it wasn’t everybody that was on the upper end of the spectrum. But I really did my best not to just learn from those that were upper end, but also those that were at the lower end. Maybe it was somebody that was, you know, all they did was, you know, work in and run a machine in a machine shop. Well, guess what? They provided value to me and education to me as well, Steve.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and frankly, what you’re really talking about, and this is why healthcare works in some cases and doesn’t in others, you have to have a relationship with somebody to influence them.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 05 :
So I remember a mechanic I had for years. This guy’s name was Paul, and he was just an old salt-of-the-earth kind of guy. And if Paul told me I needed to do something, I trusted him. I believed him. Half the people out there now will go to an auto shop and go, I don’t trust these guys. I know they’re going to try to sell me stuff that I shouldn’t have and try to work me. I mean, never with Paul’s case, never. And that’s the same way with a doc. If you’ve got a doc who’s spending time with you like you described with Dr. Scott, You’re going to trust him. If he says to do something, then you’re going to do it. It’s that simple.
SPEAKER 04 :
You’re exactly right. So somebody asked me, too, by the way, that speaking of sucking off the system and all of that, they’re talking about how businesses like mine, yeah, I did the PPP loans. I advised every single client of mine to do the PPP loans. And somebody’s talking about, you know, isn’t that sucking off of the system? Well, Steve, I went back and did the math. on just the match that not the income tax I’ve paid, but just the match on social security that I have done over the years for all of the employees that I have employed over all of the years. And let me tell you what, I am still way ahead of what I got in a PPP loan. Let me just say it that way.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, no doubt about it. And you know, that’s, That’s part of being a business owner that people never understand unless they do actually own a business.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s for sure. I mean, the reality is, did I feel bad taking anything PPP-wise? No. And I was one of those, Steve, that I feel did everything PPP-wise the correct way. I kept all of my employees staffed. In fact, if anything, we grew a little bit. We added people. We did exactly what we were supposed to do with that, therefore supporting employees. all of those individuals making sure that they were working all the way through COVID, which is exactly what its intention was for. And did I feel one bit bad about doing that? Absolutely not, because again, I took up the total of what I had paid in over all the years I have actually been a business owner since 1986, added all of that up, and figured out exactly where I was. And yeah, no, I’m still way behind in what I’ve paid. Let’s just say it that way.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. I mean, some part of paying Social Security is is you’re funding a government-based program. I get it. Most of it is you are helping an individual fund their retirement. I get that. Whether that’s done the right way or done the wrong way, you’re still helping them fund their retirement as a business.
SPEAKER 04 :
One of the things, just not to get off on a tangent, one of the things I’ve always had as a complaint as an owner, though, is I’m also the tax collector, Steve, for free, and I’ve done that now since 1986. Yeah, you definitely are. Which everybody else out there tends to forget that government doesn’t pay me to be the tax collector, and yet I am.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. In fact, they’ll penalize you if you don’t do their work.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, if I don’t do it, I’m going to jail.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s right. Exactly.
SPEAKER 04 :
I mean, let’s face it. That’s exactly how that end of it works. You don’t pay it. You’re going to jail. So, yeah, no. For those of you that would say anybody out there and I get it. There’s some folks out there that took PPP money that probably shouldn’t have. There’s some folks even now, you know, getting prosecuted, going to jail and so on. Yeah, if you took the money and went and bought a boat or a Lamborghini or did whatever, yeah, totally the wrong way to do it. But if you took that money and did exactly what you were supposed to do inside of your business, you kept your doors open, kept people employed, did the things that were necessary. Keep in mind, folks, when it came to the PPP end of things and for those businesses that did that, in a lot of cases, Steve, this is where it gets – this is another topic probably for another day even, but government picked winners and losers during that time, which I know they do it all the time, but they shouldn’t.
SPEAKER 05 :
No, they shouldn’t. They should not do that whatsoever. Just the same is true, though, about the tax structure where John Rush owns a business. He uses electricity. He uses water. He uses sewer. He uses individual inventory and pieces and parts to do his business. Somebody is open across the street. John makes a profit and pays taxes on the profit. The guy across the street loses money, writes it off on his taxes, reduces his individual taxes. Even though he used all those resources, he didn’t do anything for anyone relative to the community, let alone his own family.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s right. Absolutely. Steve, as always, this is a fast hour. It goes by super fast. I always appreciate what you donate back to us on a regular basis. The things I’ve learned from you, by the way, over the years are priceless, and I’m very, very grateful and indebted to you.
SPEAKER 05 :
We should have gone into business together a long time ago, man. It would have been a great thing.
SPEAKER 04 :
Can’t argue that one. Steve, I love you, man. I appreciate you very much.
SPEAKER 05 :
You too, brother. All right, man.
SPEAKER 04 :
Have a great night. And yes, I do. I feel very indebted to Steve. He’s been a great friend and done a lot to help our show out here, not just on Thursdays, but in general, and just a great guy. Taught me a lot over the years, and I mean that sincerely. Veteran Windows and Doors coming up next, folks. And again, Dave. will tell you that there’s an Energy Star rating change possibly coming at the first of the year. What does that mean? It means that what we actually have here in Colorado and the regulations that we have when it comes to windows and doors, windows especially, may be changing not for the better, but for the worse. Find out exactly how that would work for you. Talk to Dave today. Go to klzradio.com and find him.
SPEAKER 15 :
Veteran Windows and Doors is committed to installing only the right windows and doors engineered specifically for your Colorado home. Every product they install is energy certified, code compliant, and carefully chosen for our unique climate and elevation. Here’s the truth. Federal regulations are written for the entire country, not for homes at Colorado’s high altitude. And those blanket rules, they can actually increase your carbon footprint, not reduce it. Windows that aren’t made for our elevation let in more heat, force your AC to work harder, and drive up your energy bills. Other companies will try to sell you windows that meet the new Department of Energy and EPA standards going into effect this January. Those windows won’t work properly here. Veteran Windows and Doors will make sure you get sustainable, efficient windows that are truly right for your home before the new laws kick in. Find Veteran Windows and Doors at klzradio.com.
SPEAKER 04 :
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SPEAKER 04 :
All right, Paul Leuenberger, who is my insurance agent and would love to help you with all of your insurance needs. He is a broker now and will shop for you as to what the best policy is that fits your needs. And he’ll do that for you. And all you got to do is make a phone call today. 303-662-0789.
SPEAKER 02 :
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SPEAKER 03 :
It’s time to leave your safe space. This is Rush to Reason on KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, and we are back. Thanks for joining us today, as always. And again, Dr. Kelly Victory normally with us during this hour, but she actually filled in for Dr. Drew today, and we were talking during the beginning of the week, and Again, that last hour with Steve, I appreciate a lot because, again, he gives us a lot of great information that, frankly, is inside information, by the way, that we would not get any other way. Yesterday’s impossible question. In 1944, Soshi Yoki, a Japanese sergeant, got left behind in Guam by retreating forces. How many years did he survive the jungles of Guam before being discovered? The answer would be 28 years. 28 years. Today’s impossible question, can you name the three things the movies E.T., Tootsie, and Rain Man all have in common? Name the three things that the movies E.T., Tootsie, and Rain Man all have in common. Answer that today on our Facebook page, by the way, Rush to Reason Facebook page. That’s where you answer the impossible question. And, of course, as always, I will give you that answer tomorrow. All right, two more hours coming your way. Don’t go anywhere. This is Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 1 :
Thank you. I’m a rich guy.
