Join John Rush as he delves into the controversial issue of illegal immigration and its economic implications. Through thoughtful discussion, John and his guests debunk popular myths and examine the role of automation and legal immigration in sustaining industries. This episode provides a nuanced perspective on how immigration policies impact the economy and society.
SPEAKER 04 :
This is Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 12 :
You are going to shut your damn yapper and listen for a change because I got you pegged, sweetheart. You want to take the easy way out because you’re scared. And you’re scared because if you try and fail, there’s only you to blame. Let me break this down for you. Life is scary. Get used to it. There are no magical fixes.
SPEAKER 06 :
With your host, John Rush.
SPEAKER 22 :
My advice to you is to do what your parents did. Get a job first. You haven’t made everybody equal. You’ve made them the same, and there’s a big difference.
SPEAKER 19 :
Let me tell you why you’re here. You’re here because you know something. What you know you can’t explain, but you feel it. You’ve felt it your entire life, that there’s something wrong with the world. You don’t know what it is, but it’s there. It is this feeling that has brought you to me.
SPEAKER 03 :
Are you crazy? Am I? Or am I so sane that you just blew your mind?
SPEAKER 05 :
It’s Rush to Reason with your host, John Rush. Presented by Cub Creek Heating and Air Conditioning.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right, we are back. Hour number two, Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Myself, Andy Pate, Charlie Grimes. Okay, tax day is today. Should have talked about that with Jordan Goodman, but we had lots of other things to cover. So if you haven’t gotten your return in or your payment, especially your payment, even if you’re, well, I’m just going to file an extension. Remember, this is not tax advice, but I know the rules. If you owe, you still have to pay today. You don’t get to file an extension and not pay. Everybody thinks, well, let’s file an extension and pay then. Well, yeah, you can. Nice penalty will go along with that because they’re going to penalize you for doing that. So, yeah, you can do that, but it’s going to cost you money if you do that.
SPEAKER 08 :
They wouldn’t do that. They love us.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, yeah. No, it’s going to cost you.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, okay.
SPEAKER 09 :
A lot more than if you went and borrowed the money today to pay the taxes, by the way. Right. So I think the rule of thumb is, or the law is, you’ve got to pay within 10% of what you owe. So if you think you owe them $5,000, you’ve got to pay within, what, $4,500 or you’re going to have a penalty.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
So you’ve got to at least do some estimates on what you think you owe, and you can’t even wing it. You’ve got to be fairly close because if you go to file in October 15th, which is what the extension would allow you to do, and you owe that $5,000 and you didn’t pay it, you’re going to have a penalty. I think it’s 10% or more on top of that. So it’s not worth doing.
SPEAKER 08 :
No, it isn’t. They have enough money.
SPEAKER 09 :
Just pay them now. Get your taxes filed. You have until midnight tonight to get that done, filed, whatever you need to do. But who pays federal taxes? I thought I’d go ahead and do a little history lesson here because you always hear from the AOCs and Bernie Sanders of the world that, you know, the little guys pay everything and the big guys don’t pay any. The rich need to pay more, Andy. Pay their fair share.
SPEAKER 08 :
Biggest lie probably in American history.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yep. So the bottom 20%. This is the bottom 20% of taxpayers. Okay. Pay .6 of federal taxes. 0.6 is all they pay. Right. Okay. The next 20%, so now we’re up to 40%. Okay, think of it that way. So the bottom 20%, 0.6%. The second 20% pay 4%. So now 40% are paying less than 5% of the tax. Correct. Okay, continue. Correct. The middle 20% pay 9%.
SPEAKER 08 :
Oh, so the bottom 60% of earners… Are paying a grand total of 13.6%. That’s correct.
SPEAKER 09 :
Wow. And then let’s go one more 20%. They pay 18%. So now you’ve got 80% of the population almost, right?
SPEAKER 1 :
20, 40, 60.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, sorry, not 80%.
SPEAKER 1 :
20, 40, 60.
SPEAKER 09 :
It is 80%.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s 80% of the population. Yeah, 20, 40, 60, 80.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s right.
SPEAKER 08 :
80% of the population, John, is paying less than 32% of the taxes. Correct.
SPEAKER 1 :
80%.
SPEAKER 07 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 08 :
In other words, folks, all that stuff that you’re using every day and really enjoying that the government provides, someone else is paying for it properly.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s right. Go ahead. The next two groups combined, they pay the, let’s see here, the 69% that’s left, they pay. Okay. Right. All other taxpayers pay the rest.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah. And, you know, automatically when you say that, what do people assume? Well, that’s because they have 69% of the wealth. Actually, no, they don’t.
SPEAKER 09 :
No, they don’t.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s not even close.
SPEAKER 09 :
No. No. 20% of households, the top 20%, pay 70% of the taxes, and the top 1% pay for nearly a quarter of the nation’s taxes. But they don’t pay enough, Andy. So the question I always have for those people that say the rich need to pay more is, okay, what’s more? Define that. How much is enough for you?
SPEAKER 08 :
Right.
SPEAKER 09 :
You want them to give it all? What’s your definition of enough?
SPEAKER 08 :
There isn’t one.
SPEAKER 09 :
Which, by the way, they can’t define. No. You’re right. Dave and Thornton, go ahead.
SPEAKER 20 :
Yeah, I just wanted to comment on that real quick. I can’t remember who it was I was listening to here recently talked about. If you went ahead and you took all the assets of all the rich in this country – and monetize it however you took their houses sold it you took their bank accounts and seized them uh that still wouldn’t cover what the government spends in 30 days it would only fund the government for 30 days that’s right so that would that would do nothing truly would do nothing it’s the economy as a whole that works to include tariffs and everything else that that keeps the economy running and of course us doing deficit spending and borrowing That keeps the economy going. So it isn’t 100% taxes. That’s right. You’re right.
SPEAKER 08 :
Right. And by the way, at the end of that 30 days, Dave, you would not have an employer.
SPEAKER 09 :
No. Exactly. You’d wipe out the economy doing that as well at the same time.
SPEAKER 20 :
Yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER 09 :
Good point.
SPEAKER 20 :
It was something that I was told a long time ago by a man much wiser than myself. We were talking about the same subject, and he told me, hey, you know what? I’ve never worked for a poor man.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, that’s a good one, Andy. Or a good one, Dave. You’ve never worked for a poor man. That’s a good one.
SPEAKER 20 :
But I wanted to bring something up about Jordan. I do enjoy when you have him on, but he tends to have a lot of misinformation when it comes to the true cost of illegal immigration and how it affects the economy as a whole. This fallacy that people have about… If we don’t have illegal aliens, then the crops are going to rot in the field. The fact of the matter is we don’t have year-round harvesting. So that’s not true.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right. You’re right. Well, and I already said this to a texter earlier, Dave, as well. The other thing, too, that’s happening as we speak, there’s more and more automation even in the picking end of things that happens on an annual basis to where the amount of people that are needed to actually do the picking becomes less and less anyways.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, there’s really three disagreements I have with their entire argument. Number one, you just said it, automation. Number two, are you saying that these things never got picked before illegal immigration? Right. Yes, they did. And number three, folks, there’s a thing called legal immigration. If we don’t have the manpower in America to cover any kind of industry, guess what? We can let people in legally through ports of entry to fill that industry. It’s not hard, guys. This is not rocket science. This idea that if we don’t let people in illegally in a mass invasion, suddenly no one’s going to pick the crops is ludicrous.
SPEAKER 09 :
It is. Absolutely.
SPEAKER 20 :
And, you know, to point to a more recent situation that would prove that point, let us look at the pandemic, the fake pandemic shutdown. Somehow the world didn’t end with the pandemic, and we all managed to go back to work, and the economy turned itself back on.
SPEAKER 09 :
Good point.
SPEAKER 20 :
And it went on.
SPEAKER 09 :
Good point, Dave.
SPEAKER 20 :
With Americans and without illegal aliens. Somehow… The sun came up the next day.
SPEAKER 09 :
You’re right. So that’s a false argument. It is. And, again, like I said earlier, I love Jordan. Do we agree on everything? No. And there’s some things worth battling on with him over, and some of that we’ve done in the past. And other times it’s like, yeah, we’ll move on to the next one because we’re just going to have to agree to disagree.
SPEAKER 20 :
Yeah, no, you’ve got a lot of topics to cover in that short amount of time. But the other thing with that, it was a couple months back, I recall listening to him talk about how illegal immigration was a good thing because that would bring down prices because you’ve got this glut of labor and so forth. And that’s true. But at that time, I called in and I spoke to him about that. And it was like, that’s true unless you are a carpenter or a drywaller or a roofer or somebody who pours concrete. So for him, it’s easy to say illegal aliens is good. unless it affects you directly, because now your wages, the jobs you’re bidding, are being undercut by someone who doesn’t pay insurance, who doesn’t pay unemployment insurance, who doesn’t pay for a workman’s comp, who doesn’t pay their taxes, their gas taxes, their fuel taxes, all these other things. Those costs aren’t factored into that illegal alien labor. And so it’s easy for folks like that to say, hey, bring them in because it’s better for everybody. It makes everybody else’s prices cheaper. Well, until they start coming in and they start going after accountants. And financial advisors, maybe then they’ll begin to say, well, hey, hold on a second. Maybe we don’t want to be doing this.
SPEAKER 08 :
Dave, what really angers me is this. Those businesses who employ illegal immigrants and who want that protected, The reason they want to protect it is because they want you, the taxpayer, to pay a good portion of their costs. You talk about all the ancillary costs of illegal immigrations. Obviously, they flood our schools. They flood our emergency rooms. They use our roads. They use all of our services. And we have to pay a good portion for them to use all these things. And meanwhile, this employer is getting a really cheap employee. Why are they getting a cheap employee? Because I’m helping pay their health care. They don’t. I’m helping pay for their schools. They don’t. I’m helping pay for a lot of things they don’t. I’m helping pay the wages for their business. Hey, I got news for you. It’s your business. Pay your own damn wages.
SPEAKER 20 :
Exactly. It’s not incumbent on everyone else to ensure that you turn a profit. It’s up to you as a business person to run your business correctly and turn your own profit. And if you’re not making a profit, maybe you should go do something else. So these ancillary costs have to be factored in. It’s not a black and white scenario. Not to mention the cost of the crime. Because unfortunately, none of these people are being vetted. So You’re going to have a lot of bad hombres, as someone else has said, that are going to be coming into this country, and they’re going to be committing those crimes here. And not only do we have those crimes happening, but we’ve got the victims of that crime who are being associated with that. Not just monetarily, but the emotional trauma that happens when someone you love is murdered or raped or just run over by a drunk illegal alien. You know, those costs are not being factored into when people keep advocating for all this mass immigration.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 20 :
No. There’s a reason we have an immigration process. Every country has an immigration process because no one has a right to just walk into anybody else’s country and say, I’m going to stay here now.
SPEAKER 09 :
I’m here. I’m staying.
SPEAKER 20 :
Who are you and what are you coming for?
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s right. You’re 100% correct.
SPEAKER 20 :
Who are you and what are you coming for? We have every right to find out who you are, and if we don’t like it, We have every right to say no. You can come in, but you 50 other people cannot.
SPEAKER 09 :
Plain and simple. Good one. Dave, I’ll let you go with that. Perfect. I appreciate that very much. John and Cheyenne, hang tight. We’ll come right back. Veteran Windows and Doors is up next. 35% off windows up to three, 40% for or more free labor to install, and any door you do is 45% off and his cost to install. Veteran Windows and Doors, find them at klzradio.com.
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SPEAKER 16 :
putting reason into your afternoon drive. This is John Rush.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right, we are back. John and Cheyenne, you’re up. Go ahead, sir.
SPEAKER 15 :
Well, first thing, John, when you talk fair share, our media across the board, I don’t care whether it’s Fox News or MSNBC or Cowards, when somebody says they need to pay their fair share, they should stop and say, what percentage is that? And if they refuse to answer, they should end the interview right then and there.
SPEAKER 09 :
I agree. I agree.
SPEAKER 15 :
Because they’d love to say that, but have you ever heard, even if it’s a conservative Republican that says it should be, you never hear any of them commit to what the percentage of fair share should be.
SPEAKER 08 :
John, and the second you say, oh, okay, in that case you want a flat tax for everybody with no deductions, and immediately they run for the hills. Because they know that that would mean that people who are not paying at all would have to pay.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right. And I think everybody should have something. Even if you’re the lowest earner, you should have to pay $200 in federal income tax. Just something to have a little skin in the game. But to not have to pay any tax and then get money back. And there are people who do that. They get all their taxes back plus earned income credit. That is just free money. But the other thing you were talking about with taxes, John, and I’m going to ask you this, I have never understood people who go, hey, I’m getting a $3,000 refund. And then when you look at them and say, so you gave the government a $3,000 interest-free loan for the last year?
SPEAKER 09 :
Basically.
SPEAKER 15 :
And they look at you sideways. Yeah, because that’s basically what it is. You overpaid if you’re getting back.
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 15 :
And lastly, I was talking to my tax guy on Sunday. He’s a family member. And he said that since the Trump tax cuts and I don’t know if you knew this, he said less than 10 percent of 1040 filers. can itemize because of the increase in the standard deductions went up so much.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s right. Those numbers that he’s giving you are correct. That’s exactly right. And that’s part of the Trump tax cuts, by the way, that I hope they revamp and change because by doing that, they gave a lot of people bigger breaks on taxes than what they frankly deserve, making them net tax receivers, not net taxpayers, and they should be paying, not receiving.
SPEAKER 08 :
Well, the Trump tax cuts dramatically increased the imbalance in who is paying the taxes.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s right. Despite what the left says… It punished the rich. That’s right. Despite what the left says and what they believe, they are completely wrong, John, because what your accountant is telling you, he’s exactly right, or she, or whoever it is.
SPEAKER 15 :
Him.
SPEAKER 09 :
He’s right.
SPEAKER 15 :
No, and I have… Since the Trump tax cuts, I’m paying less… But I’ve never had enough. I like to write and send them a little bit every year instead of having them even think about sending me money back. I like to pay a little extra because I don’t want them having my money for free. I don’t mind paying them today. And the other thing he said, because he’s seen it with his clients and he’s been in the tax business for over 30 years, he said, if you can, pay by credit card. Because even if you take your check to the post office today and have it postmarked, If the IRS says they don’t get it, you’re going to pay the penalties and late charges. He said if you paid a little 1% or 2% convenience fee on that credit card.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s two and a half, I checked. That’s the only downside.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, but you have then the proof that you paid.
SPEAKER 09 :
No, that’s true. Now, what I did, for those of you listening, because I won’t pay online, I won’t give them that satisfaction, I won’t pay by credit card nor giving them that satisfaction of even collecting those fees and being paid that immediately. Yes, I mail checks. Yes, I take picture copies of those checks, date stamped, they’re going out the door and so on. I basically record all of that so that, yes, John, I can go back and prove that, yes, in fact, they did go in the mail on that day.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, and he said that he’s had clients in the past that it was a huge fight with the IRS to get them to waive the penalties.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, it can be. No doubt about it. That’s the risk you run, but I’m one where, and this is not against the IRS. I just hate the way my money gets spent. I’m like you. I pay. There is rarely a year that I don’t have to send some check off to the state and to the feds, and my biggest complaint is I could have a bonfire and enjoy it more.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, because the money’s going down the money hole, as they call it.
SPEAKER 09 :
Sorry, it’s just going down the crapper. You might as well flush it. You’d at least enjoy it. You’d get the swirl effect and at least get to watch it go down.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, at least that, or if you set it on fire, you could at least enjoy the fire.
SPEAKER 09 :
In my case, it just goes out the door and there’s nothing coming. In my opinion, I’m getting nothing in return. I know. People will call in and say, well, what about the roads and bridges and this and that and so on? Well, A, all of that’s paid by my gas tax, which I’m also paying on top of the check that I already sent. What about the schools and all of that? Well, that’s property taxes. That’s a whole other tax I’ve already paid that doesn’t count for what I sent in today. I mean, John, I can go down the list, so don’t get me started.
SPEAKER 15 :
Uh-huh. Other than… Paying for the military, which is what the federal tax should be. Correct. They blow our money. That is right. They blow our money.
SPEAKER 09 :
You’re right, John.
SPEAKER 15 :
And that’s why I’m such a big fan of those right now, because at least they’re pointing out where they’re blowing some of this money.
SPEAKER 09 :
I am all in. And this is where, again, Jordan and I would disagree on a lot of things. You know, he gets a little upset that they’re just going in and shutting down complete departments willy nilly, whatever. Yeah, I’m one that’s like you could shut like two thirds of the government down and I’d be just fine with it.
SPEAKER 15 :
I would, too. It’s not going to hurt my feelings. If they shut, like, we’ll use that USAID. I won’t call it aid because it wasn’t that. As an example, you shut the whole department down, which fell under the Secretary of State and the State Department anyway, and then you say, oh, well, we should still do this. Say it’s, you know, I don’t know, something that’s worthwhile. Well, okay, we’ll just make that a small part. under the State Department. We don’t need a huge government bureaucracy to do one or two good things and 100 bad. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER 09 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 15 :
So, I mean, it’s tax day. I mean, we all hate it. You guys hate it.
SPEAKER 09 :
I despise it. I mean, I actually, I wake up in the morning on April the 15th in a maybe not bad mood, but I’m not in a great mood because I know those, you know, I’ve already made the checks. I’ve already got my returns done. I’ve got everything all dialed in. Those things are stamped ready to go. And I just look at them and I’m just irritated.
SPEAKER 08 :
Let me ask a quick question for both Johns here. I’ll go to John and Cheyenne first. John, what do you think Doge and the findings of Doge have added to the mentality of Americans on this day?
SPEAKER 15 :
I’m hoping an awareness that, you know, when you do have to pay this money, that a lot of it is being wasted. That’s what I’m hoping. I don’t know. There are some people who are very happy with it. There are other people who think Elon Musk is the devil incarnate.
SPEAKER 09 :
Oh, geez. I mean, we’ve got some family members, not on the conservative side, John, but some family members that basically say, you know, watch your Social Security account and your Social Security checks because Elon and Trump are going to do everything possible to steal them. I mean, how how much of a moron do you have to be, John, to believe in that?
SPEAKER 15 :
It’s unbelievable, but the gullible are out there. That’s like the same. I don’t know if you saw what Speaker Johnson said about the Medicare.
SPEAKER 10 :
No.
SPEAKER 15 :
I’m sorry, the Medicaid. He said nobody on Medicaid who needs it is getting cut. Right. But the 29-year-old able-bodied worker who’s sitting in mom’s basement playing video games, he’s getting thrown off.
SPEAKER 09 :
And I’m fine with that. Good. Should be.
SPEAKER 15 :
I am fine with that, too.
SPEAKER 09 :
I mean, it’s like I said earlier. I’m going to talk about this with Steve House and Dr. Kelly Victory on Thursday. But, again, the fact that a lot of states, over half the states, have extended their Medicaid program to include couples with household income of $70,000 a year, well above the minimum, by the way, John. And they also have access to employer-discounted or subsidized health insurance plans. They still are eligible to go on Medicaid, and they do because it’s cheaper. That’s wrong.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah, and that’s wrong.
SPEAKER 09 :
Really quick, that goes back to Andy’s comment earlier about employers with illegals and so on, and we’re subsidizing those as taxpayers and so on for those workers to be there. We’re doing the same thing when it comes to these individuals that are on Medicaid. Now, in this case, I’m not blaming the employer, by the way. He or she’s offering a subsidized health plan. They just choose not to because it’s cheaper to go on Medicaid because the limits allow them to. That needs changed.
SPEAKER 15 :
Right. And like in our case, we both have employer-offered health care. So we opt out of one and do the other.
SPEAKER 09 :
Correct.
SPEAKER 15 :
Yeah. You know, it’s the family plan. But when I was opting out, And we were using hers years ago before we made a change. My company was saying, all right, well, she chopped it out. They gave me $25 extra pay period for opting out. Got it. Which was nowhere near what my copayment would have been. what their cost would have been. But because I opted out, they gave me a little bit of a bonus.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, and the point with this for everybody listening is there’s no reason why a family make an 80 grand. I’m sorry. I’ll say this all day long. No reason why a family make an 80 grand that has the offer to have subsidized health care through their employer is on Medicaid. That’s ridiculous. Why am I tax dollars paying for that?
SPEAKER 08 :
I know, because here they live a lifestyle. A lot of this goes back to so many people bought more house than they could afford.
SPEAKER 09 :
Or other things, Andy, they couldn’t afford. They bought more of whatever than they could afford. Cars, boats, you name it, Andy.
SPEAKER 08 :
I’m sorry, but I see quote-unquote poor people with hair. that I know cost a lot of money just to have their hair done, or they’re wearing expensive sneakers, and I’m looking at them and I’m saying, I don’t spend nearly what you do on these things, and you’ve got food stamps?
SPEAKER 09 :
Andy, I’m going to go one step further. Some people might not like me saying this, but I’m going to say it anyways. You guys know me. I don’t beat around the bush. Andy, I know some of those same people, to your point. They can wear designer, all the designer clothes, all the designer shoes. have all the nails done, and on top of that have tattoos that cost a fortune all over their bodies, and yet I’m paying for their Medicaid. Yeah. That’s crap.
SPEAKER 15 :
That’s crap. All you have to do is look at, like, Gillette, Wyoming is big on the boom and bust cycle because of the oil and the gas and the coal fields. Yeah. And when we hit a bust in fossil fuels or whatever we’re calling it this week, organic fuels, And you need a boat or you need a camper or you need a 3500 truck with a gooseneck or a fifth wheel. You just need to go to those towns because those people that are making great money now, but they’re financed up to the health on too much house, too much car, too much boat. Yeah. And then all of a sudden they got to sell it all because they’re going to foreclose. You can get a really good deal. And is that taking advantage? Well, some people would say yes.
SPEAKER 09 :
I would say no. You’re taking an opportunity.
SPEAKER 08 :
You know, look at it this way, John, and I’m looking at this. Johns, okay, it’s so hard talking to both of you. It’s so funny. Look at it this way. How many of these illegal immigrant families come in? For a second, set aside the fact that they’re here illegally and they should go, which I believe they should. Just set that aside. How many of them live, two or three families, area, like in a small house or an apartment or whatever, and they’re all crammed in there and they’re living and just getting by until they can get on their feet. You see what I’m saying? How many of them are living with a lot less than a lot of Americans who are collecting food stamps?
SPEAKER 15 :
And public assistance across the board. Oh, yeah. Right. That is the biggest problem is there’s no means testing anymore for They got rid of it. You remember, we’re old enough to remember when Clinton did the welfare. That’s right. And they means-tested people. In New York City, they did it, and they found more than half of the women that were on public assistance were working off the books jobs. And when they told them they had a report for 20 hours a week community service to get their check, they disappeared off the rolls.
SPEAKER 09 :
Imagine that.
SPEAKER 15 :
Because they – imagine that. If you just did a little bit of like a means testing or said if you want public assistance, fine. You’ve got to show up and help clean the parks 20 hours a week. You know, 20 hours is not a lot. Most of us work way more than that, double that or more. How many wouldn’t show up? Yeah.
SPEAKER 09 :
John, that is one of the other areas that needs a complete revamp. We are spending far too much on assistance programs in this country, period.
SPEAKER 15 :
Get to work, people. To quote Glenn Beck, He said this, and he was right. When the churches gave out assistance, they know who needed a hand up or a kick in the pants. Now the government does it. They don’t care. They just give it out.
SPEAKER 08 :
And he kind of made sense. Why is it so hateful to simply say this? There shouldn’t be a dollar in your pocket that you didn’t earn. Yeah. OK. Well, come on. As we always say, it’s just so ludicrous. These people who say that people who want to keep their own more of their own money are greedy. But if you want more of their money, you’re not. It just blows my mind. This has to, like John said, this has to end. This has to end. We have to have people earning the money they get, period. End of story. No more free lunch. That has to go away. You know why? Because the free lunch is burying our children and our children’s children.
SPEAKER 09 :
In debt. That’s right. Yeah. That’s right, Andy. Come on, guys. I’ll let you go.
SPEAKER 15 :
We’re supposed to be nice. It’s Holy Week.
SPEAKER 09 :
It’s Holy Week.
SPEAKER 15 :
We’re supposed to be nice.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right, man. Appreciate you, John. Have a good one. We’ll go to break. We’ll come back in a moment. Affordable Interest Mortgage is next. Kurt Rogers, 720-895-0500.
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SPEAKER 06 :
Call in to the KLZ studio line, 303-477-5600. Now, back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right, and we are back. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560. Joe, you’re next. Go ahead.
SPEAKER 14 :
Guys, I apologize. I just tuned in, but were you talking about the Denver Gazette story I sent you? About what, Joe? About Medicaid expansion.
SPEAKER 09 :
No? Well, yeah, a little bit. I’m going to talk about it in depth on Thursday with Dr. Kelly and Steve House. But yeah, I mean, that just chimed in. I really started talking this hour about who pays their fair share, the breakdown in federal taxes from the bottom 20% all the way up to the top 1%. We went through the entire pie chart and then got off on a rabbit trail on people that are on subsidies and that are not subsidies but are on you know, food stamps, and they’re on Medicaid, and they’re on Section 8 housing, and, and, and, and, and.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, I realize you’re going to talk in depth on Thursday, but let me just, for those who haven’t written, there’s a great art at Denver Gazette. Here’s what’s happened. Even though Medicaid was authorized by the federal government, it’s administered by the states. Right. The states partially fund it, and they get to decide.
SPEAKER 09 :
And really quick, for everybody listening, I’ll stop you for a moment. Joe, in Colorado, we’re way short in that department, by the way. It’s one of the things they’re trying to work out in the budget end of things is because it’s way short because of what you just said.
SPEAKER 14 :
Right. And in states like Colorado, one of them, they’ve decided that if you’re a couple with no kids, let’s say you live in Castle Rock, You can have a household income of $5,800 a month, which is $69,000.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, that part I said earlier already. Yep, $70,000.
SPEAKER 14 :
Now, even though either one or both of you have access to an employer-subsidized health plan, well, why would you do that? Well, even if most employers subsidize health plans and say, okay, we’re going to take $20 a week out of your paycheck, so maybe it’s $80 a month.
SPEAKER 09 :
And you’ve got co-pays and you’ve got other things and so on, and there’s a cost there.
SPEAKER 14 :
Right. So there’s a payroll deduction. If you go see a doctor, there’s a $20 or $25 copay. Right. If you have to be hospitalized, or you can enroll in our free, zero-cost Medicaid. What are you going to do? You’re going to enroll in Medicaid.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, because it’s free. So it’s free. Quote, unquote. You know, free to you, not free to us as taxpayers.
SPEAKER 14 :
Right. So now I want to go on the Wayback Machine, 250 years ago. And I know I’ve read this on this show before.
SPEAKER 08 :
You were pretty young then.
SPEAKER 14 :
But Ben Franklin, 250 years ago, and here’s a quote for Ben Franklin. He said, I am for doing good to the poor, but I think the best way of doing good to the poor is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I have observed that the more public provisions that were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer as a result. And on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves and became richer as a result. That’s right. You know, wise man, 250 years ago, and that’s what’s happening today.
SPEAKER 09 :
And human nature doesn’t change, so it’s the same then as it is today, Joe.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, we make it too easy. By the way, I just heard on the news today, all the big cities have what they call public housing, which are You know, basically state run or city run ghettos.
SPEAKER 10 :
Right.
SPEAKER 14 :
The city of Philadelphia is adding seven thousand new city owned housing units. Now, figure if you figure three thousand three people per per unit. You’re talking an additional 21,000 people living off the city’s dime.
SPEAKER 08 :
Joe, Philadelphia is becoming the new New York.
SPEAKER 09 :
Philadelphia, by the way.
SPEAKER 08 :
Philadelphia, yeah, thank you. They’re becoming the new New York. They’re going to be the next place everybody just, all the rich, pull out and leave. So where are they going to get the tax base to support that?
SPEAKER 14 :
It’s going to disappear and they’re going to wind up. You weren’t on the show, Eddie, but last week we talked about how Baltimore, once a beautiful city, is contracting. It’s you know, they’ve lost in the past 20 years, they’ve lost a third of their population, all the all the businesses that could leave have left. And of course, all the people who were paying taxes, you know, all they had to do is move four or five miles to the city line. And they were in a suburb that didn’t the city of Baltimore passed personal property taxes and they passed city income tax. The only people left in Baltimore are the people who didn’t have the means to leave. That’s what’s going to happen to Philadelphia.
SPEAKER 08 :
The thing that really amazes me the most, and this is going to kind of surprise a lot of people, what amazes me the most is how many rich people in this country are really good. And what I mean is this. As long as they see people willing to work for what they get, the rich are willing to pay a lot more in taxes than their fair share. But when they find out, look, I’m paying a lot more than my fair share, and these people are just sucking it up, right, and living on public housing and getting food stamps, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da, and staying at home with their two kids and not working, then they leave and they move to Florida. I think the rich in this country have been incredibly patient. Am I wrong?
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, some have. I think it was two years ago, 6,600 millionaires and billionaires left renounce their U.S. citizenships and left the country. By the way, just because you leave the country, if you’re still a U.S. citizen, you still have to pay your federal income taxes, even though you’re living in Spain or somewhere. But if you renounce your citizenship and leave like 6,600 millionaires and billionaires did two years ago, you don’t. And I think if that continues, they’re talking now about imposing a wealth tax. Well, Elon Musk made $100 billion in nine months. Well, The rise in the value of the stock you own is not – there’s no accounting or IRS.
SPEAKER 09 :
That’s an increase in your net worth. There’s nothing there that went to your bank account.
SPEAKER 14 :
Right. That’s not income.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right.
SPEAKER 14 :
You can’t go to the grocery store and say, here’s two shares of Tesla stock. You can’t buy anything with that, Joe.
SPEAKER 09 :
You can borrow against it, which a lot of rich people do, but you can’t do anything with it. No, you can’t pay for your groceries with two shares of Tesla stock.
SPEAKER 14 :
That’s right. And if they move forward with things like wealth taxes – by the way, when I tell people – And this is IRS data that the top 1% pay more in income taxes than the bottom 90% combined. 1% pays more than the entire 90% combined. They tell me I’m lying, you’re crazy, you have no idea. That’s a fact. The top 1% of the taxpayers in this country pay more in income taxes than the bottom 90% combined do. And yet they want to keep increasing the taxes. By the way, the Trump tax rate cuts are continuing to generate New all-time record high tax revenues. People just incorrectly assume that if you cut tax rates, you cut tax revenues. And time and time again, John Kennedy understood this. Ronald Reagan proved it. Trump is proving it. You cut tax rates and tax revenues increase. Yeah, because you spur spending. You spur economic development. That’s right. The most dramatic was Reagan. Reagan cut the top tax rate by 40%, and yet tax revenues and median household income and the average hourly wage all soared as a result. Because one of the things that happened is that those cut in tax rates helped convert 16 million formerly unemployed net tax receivers into employed net taxpayers. but those on the left just assume if you cut tax rates, you’re cutting tax revenues, when it’s the exact opposite relationship.
SPEAKER 08 :
Yeah, I always get really angry when they say we have to pay for these tax cuts.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, when your tax rate cuts generate new higher tax revenues, you don’t need to make any, quote, offsetting tax cuts or program cuts.
SPEAKER 09 :
Right.
SPEAKER 14 :
So that’s another fallacy that tax rate cuts have to be paid for by… cutting other social programs. No, they don’t.
SPEAKER 09 :
No. Lots of mis… Well, it’s purposely done, Joe, as you know. This is a tool from the Marxist left to get people to realize or to believe in something that, frankly, is just false. I mean, you can watch Bernie Sanders’ AOC run around and talk about being against oligarchs, this, that, and the other, when, in fact, they should look in the mirror.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yep. And what they peddle is outrage. Yep. And they’re living on outrage, and they depend on useful idiots… And, you know, the world is littered with useful idiots, and the definition of a useful idiot is those who will believe, repeat, and act on lies they are told.
SPEAKER 09 :
You know, like I said earlier, Joe, we have a family member that believes that, an older person, that believes that you really need to watch your Social Security right now because, you know, Donald Trump and Elon Musk are after it. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but yet that’s what they believe.
SPEAKER 14 :
By the way, do you know that the trustees of the Social Security Trust Fund are predicting that by 2034, the trust fund will be fully depleted?
SPEAKER 10 :
Yeah.
SPEAKER 14 :
And if there are no changes made after 2034, there’ll only be enough cash coming in to pay out promise benefits at the rate of 80 cents on the dollar? Yes. That should scare people. It should. We need to make changes. Nobody’s stealing it. Nobody has stolen it. Nobody took it. No, there’s not enough people paying into it is the problem. Yeah, because people are living when the Social Security Act went into effect.
SPEAKER 08 :
It’s out of balance. This is where I disagree with Trump.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I mean it.
SPEAKER 14 :
We need to raise the age.
SPEAKER 09 :
Joe, go ahead. I do lots of things.
SPEAKER 14 :
Well, in 1935, when the Social Security Act became law, the average life expectancy was age 66. Right. Which means that almost half the people who paid into it never lived long enough to collect it. Now here we are, 2025, 90 years later, average life expectancy in this country is 78. It’s improved by 12 years. How much has the age to collect full retirement increased? Two years. Well, if you increase life expectancy by 12 years and you only increase the age to collect full benefits by two, there’s a 10-year gap in there, and that’s what’s happened. Right. I think I’ve mentioned this before. The best way to fix it is simply raise the contribution rates for both the employer and employee by half a percent, from 7.5% to 8% each, and you fix the system. But all they want to do is they want to raise the cap. They want to make billionaires pay on all their income. What they don’t realize, by the way, since your benefit is paid to your contribution, the more they put in, the bigger the benefit they would get. And since it is an established fact that wealthy people tend to have longer than average lifespans, the more money they would put in would be more than offset by the massive benefit checks they would start to collect for decades after they filed for their benefits. So raising the cap really doesn’t fix anything. It might help in the first couple of years, but when guys like Bezos, who was in his 50s and whatnot, start to collect, you’re going to wipe out any of that short-term gain.
SPEAKER 08 :
Joe, I don’t mind. I would be willing to raise a half percent on each side of the coin. I’d be willing to do that if it is coupled with raising the age.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, and by the way, I think age 62 to collect even partial benefits is ridiculous.
SPEAKER 09 :
It is. We mandate everybody goes on Medicare at 65. Why don’t we make that the same for Social Security, Joe?
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, it’s funny. If you want to start collecting partial benefits, fine, 65, you can collect partial benefits. Right. But to begin collecting – now, if you’re disabled – Well, that’s a whole other – they have their own category anyways, Joe. That’s my point. So let’s say you’re old, you’ve got bad arthritis, you’re crippled, you can’t walk, fine. You can go on Social Security Disability, but if you’re healthy and you’re age 62 – Why should you be able to collect Social Security benefits if you’re a healthy 62-year-old?
SPEAKER 08 :
I turned 62 in two months. I’m healthy as a horse. I don’t need benefits. It’s ridiculous.
SPEAKER 14 :
So, again, if we’re going to raise anything, the first thing we need to raise is. the minimum age to begin collecting any sort of non-disability benefits.
SPEAKER 09 :
Agreed. All right. With that, Joe, I’ve got to let you run. I appreciate you very much. Have a great rest of your evening. Geno’s Auto Service is next. Don’t forget, anything on your vehicle you need done, especially if you start warming back up and you might need some AC work, Geno’s can do all of that for you as well. Geno’sautoservice.com. Geno’s starts with a J.
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SPEAKER 06 :
Listen online. klzradio.com Back to Rush to Reason.
SPEAKER 09 :
All right, one thing I’m going to slip in here before we get to the end of the hour is ex-presidents, by the way, and I get it. They’re still around. They say things. Even Trump, when he was an ex, he said things. Sometimes they’re just like, you know, just go away. Shut up. Obama, I don’t want to hear from you. You’re done. You’re literally, you’re done. You are out of the loop. Well, he’s mad at Trump because of the way that he’s cracked down on Harvard University because of anti-Semitism and so on. And Trump wants some things done at these universities to continue to get federal funding. And, of course, Barack is upset.
SPEAKER 08 :
Barack wants what? He wants us to federally fund racism? Yes, basically.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, I don’t want to. How’s that? He praised Harvard’s decision to resist the Trump administration’s conditions for federal funding and encouraged other institutions to do the same. What are the conditions? Basically, Trump wants them to implement a mask ban. and make changes to programs and departments that fuel anti-Semitic harassment and eliminate diversity, equity, and inclusion programs.
SPEAKER 08 :
In other words, don’t be racist with our tax dollars. No, serious. DEI is racist. Anti-Semitism is racist. What’s the mask thing for?
SPEAKER 09 :
I’ll tell you that when we come back. I think I’ve got an answer as to why he wants the mask thing gone. We’ll talk about that next hour. So, guys, go away. We’re not going away. We’ll be back in a moment. Hour number three is next. Rush to Reason, Denver’s Afternoon Rush, KLZ 560.
SPEAKER 1 :
Rich guy.
