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Join Tony Perkins and his guests as they explore the intersection of faith, law, and medical ethics in the current socio-political landscape. With contributions from advocates and experts like Chloe Cole and Dr. Jennifer Bowens, uncover the profound implications of laws designed to safeguard minors against radical medical procedures. This episode not only highlights the legal strategies but also sheds light on the emotional and psychological dimensions of gender dysphoria conversations, fostering a holistic understanding of the ongoing cultural debate.
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from the heart of our nation’s capital in Washington, D.C., bringing compelling interviews, insightful analysis, taking you beyond the headlines and sound bites into conversations with our nation’s leaders and newsmakers, all from a biblical worldview. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins starts now.
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Just as using morphine to manage pain differs from using it to assist suicide, using hormones and puberty blockers to address a physical condition is far different from using it to address psychological distress associated with one’s body. The Equal Protection Clause does not require the states to blind themselves to medical reality or to treat unlike things the same. And it does not constitutionalize one side’s view of a disputed medical question.
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That was the voice of the Tennessee Solicitor General Matthew Rice defending a Tennessee law that protects minors from experimental drugs and surgeries related to gender dysphoria before the United States Supreme Court this morning. Welcome to Washington Watch. I’m your host, Tony Perkins. Here’s what’s coming up on today’s program. So a majority of the Supreme Court appear to be reluctant to strike down the Tennessee law based upon their questions and comments. We’re going to speak with the Alabama Attorney General, Steve Marshall, who has been leading a multi-state coalition in opposition to the Biden administration’s push to transgender our children. Outside the courtroom, voices were raised in defense of these protections for children.
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The solution to the stress of our children. is not lying to them. It’s not taking away parts of their bodies or unsuitable parts of their development. It doesn’t take a degree in biology to understand that a drug cocktail and a scalpel do not make a child the opposite sex.
SPEAKER 12 :
That was Chloe Cole, a detransitioner and a powerful advocate, warning the public about the dangers of radical transgender ideology. FRC’s Dr. Jennifer Bowens was at the court, and she’ll join us with her insights later here on Washington Watch. And turning to international news in South Korea.
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We welcome President Yoon’s statement, withdrawing the martial order. And there was a unanimous vote in the National Assembly to reject the decision and He followed up on that. In our judgment, any political disagreements need to be resolved peacefully and in accordance with the rule of law.
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That was U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken commenting on the escalating political crisis in South Korea. After President Moon withdrew the martial law order, the opposition party announced plans to impeach him. We’ll get the expert analysis from Asian specialist Gordon Chang later on Washington Watch. In Europe, French lawmakers have made history by ousting the prime minister, Michel Barnier, in a no-confidence vote. Now, this is the first time in 60 years that a government has been toppled in this way. What does this mean for Europe’s political future? We’ll discuss it with Peter McElvenna, who’s the co-founder of Hearts of Oak in the U.K., And closer to home, the final U.S. Congress House race was called yesterday, nearly a month after the November election. So what does this mean for the 119th Congress? Well, FRC Action’s Matt Carpenter will provide us with an update. And finally, a big thank you to everyone who partnered with us on Giving Tuesday. We are deeply grateful for your generous support in helping us stand for faith, family, and freedom here at the Family Research Council and on Washington Watch. And by the way, I want to invite you to join FRC in our Study of God’s Word in 2025 with the second volume of the Stand on the Word Journal. This new spiral-bound journal accompanies our chronological Stand on the Word Bible reading plan and covers Isaiah through Revelation. This resource will help you as you grow in your understanding of God’s Word. It also makes a great gift for loved ones this Christmas season. To order your copy, go to TonyPerkins.com or simply text the word JOURNAL to 67742. That’s JOURNAL to 67742. As I mentioned this morning, the U.S. Supreme Court heard oral arguments on whether or not Tennessee’s Senate Bill 1 violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution’s 14th Amendment. The law, which protects minors from so-called gender transition procedures, is similar to those passed in nearly half the states in the nation. And by most accounts, the Supreme Court’s conservative justices appear likely to side with the state of Tennessee. Joining me now to discuss this is the Attorney General of Alabama, Steve Marshall, who is among those leading the charge against the Biden administration’s push for irreversible mutilation of children. He filed an amicus brief in the Supreme Court case and was at the court today in support of Tennessee’s law.
SPEAKER 06 :
General Marshall, welcome back to Washington Watch. Thanks so much for joining us. Good to be here, Tony. It seems like we continue to talk about this issue, but it gets better every time.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, finally, it appears that the tide is turning as the facts are coming out. But I want to first get your thoughts, your general thoughts on how the arguments went today and where the justices may be leaning.
SPEAKER 06 :
Yeah, I think the Solicitor General for Tennessee did an outstanding job in being able to truly eviscerate the argument that was being made by both the Department of Justice and the ACLU that this was somehow or another a law passed by the state of Tennessee that dealt with gender and that discriminated based upon one sex. And that’s not at all what Tennessee has done. What they’ve done is be able to outlaw a procedure that creates experimental treatment on kids with tremendously adverse effects. And so I was very pleased by the question that we saw from the court, particularly the aggressive pushback from Justice Alito when the Department of Justice truly misstated the facts as it relates to how accepted this type of treatment is and what the potential consequences are for kids long term. So I feel confident that Tennessee will prevail and gives an opportunity not only for Tennessee to be able to continue this protection, but also the countless other states across the country that likewise want to be able to protect our kids.
SPEAKER 12 :
So speaking of that, General Marshall, will this case have implications for these other states? I mean, I think in total we have 26 states that have similar laws.
SPEAKER 06 :
I think it will, only as it relates to the legal standard that will be used to evaluate the particular state statutes. For example, when the court rules in this case, we’ll have an opportunity to be able to present what the court has done to our district judge to be able to establish why Alabama clearly has a rational basis to be able to protect our children and to use that from the court’s perspective to determine whether or not the statute itself is lawful. But Tony, I would say that even if the court were to rule with the plaintiffs and to say that there’s a higher level of scrutiny that needs to occur, I believe the medical evidence is so strong that states are going to be able to meet that standard as well.
SPEAKER 12 :
Did that come forth in today’s hearing?
SPEAKER 06 :
Sadly not, only because the Tennessee case is relatively new from a litigation side, whereas Alabama’s, we have a much more robust development of the underlying facts. And you and I have discussed previously about the absolute fraud that’s taking place on parents and children across the country as we see this coalition of social justice lawyers, the Biden administration through Admiral Levine, influencing medical professionals and developing standards of care, not for what’s best for kids, but instead to advance their own political agenda.
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And clearly that’s not right.
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t think anybody can accept this idea that medical practice ought to be dictated by your political philosophy and not what’s in the best interest of children. So very comfortable that we’re going to be able to develop that for all the states to be able to use. I think when judges have an opportunity to hear it, as recently they did in the state of Missouri, that we’re going to find compelling orders supporting this idea of protecting our children.
SPEAKER 12 :
It would appear, General Marshall, that as the facts have been coming out, and not just in the courtroom, but in dialogues like this one, and as you’ve had to defend the law there in Alabama, and as legislators have taken up this issue, taken testimony, and what we see internationally, as many foreign countries are backing away from these radical positions. It appears that the public opinion on this has shifted quite significantly in the last five years.
SPEAKER 06 :
No, I think absolutely. When Alabama first passed its law, it was only one of three states to have done so. And candidly, it was with great opposition from many that felt like we were not doing what we needed to do to be able to help kids deal with gender dysphoria or gender incongruence. But yet what we’ve learned, and particularly with the development in Europe, and who would have thought that we’d be looking to Europe to be able to support these ideas? but when they engaged in that systemic review of the literature they found little to no evidence that these treatments in fact helped kids and saw significant risks both short-term and long-term when kids undergo puberty blockers cross-sex hormones and more particularly surgeries and all we’ve seen from over these last five years is a continued push from the literature and others that have had a chance to view this in an unbiased way, is to say this is not the direction that we need to be teaching kids or at least treating kids that suffer from these conditions.
SPEAKER 12 :
General Marshall, you have tracked the court for some time. And the court has a propensity to surprise in its opinions that it releases. So while the questioning and the comments may be leading toward a support of the Tennessee law in this case, what are some of the possible outcomes? Because sometimes they can sidestep some of the issues. What might be some of the possible outcomes when the court rules on this probably near the end of June this next summer?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, one thing that Justice Alito did, I think, a fabulous job today was to really push back on the remedy that was being sought by the petitioners in this case so that they very much narrowed the scope of what they were asking. So to the extent that you were looking for worst-case scenarios, it would be that this court would come down and accept this idea that there is a heightened level – of scrutiny that needs to be placed on laws of this type. They wouldn’t be deciding whether or not Tennessee’s law was in fact valid or invalid, but instead would simply say that we will embrace this idea that this is a gender-specific law for which the state has to meet a higher burden of proof. But as we were able to establish in our 11th Circuit in a concurring opinion issued by Judge Brasher,
SPEAKER 05 :
He believes that even if it’s a heightened level of scrutiny, the evidence is so compelling, the facts are so strong, and that we would be able to meet that burden as well. So I remain confident, regardless of the result of this decision, that the states will be in a good position.
SPEAKER 06 :
But I truly believe that we’ll have a 6-3 or 5-4 decision supporting the efforts of Tennessee and validating the ruling they received from the 6th Circuit.
SPEAKER 12 :
In your opinion, did the opponents of this law, did they establish anything in today’s oral arguments?
SPEAKER 06 :
I don’t think they did. In fact, their greatest advocates were coming from the men’s, whether it be Justice Sotomayor or Justice Jackson. They advanced more of the argument than we heard from either of the two advocates. But that shouldn’t surprise us, correct? I mean, those are individuals we did not expect necessarily to be in favor of the Tennessee law. In fact, They dissented when the court had on its shadow docket a question involving Idaho for reasons very similar to what they expressed today. But I think the law itself, as Tennessee was able to present today, is very compelling for the court to be able to use a rational basis review. And I think that’s the conclusion the court’s going to ultimately reach.
SPEAKER 12 :
If I read this correctly, one of the attorneys that was opposing the law for the ACLU was a transgender attorney, setting kind of a historical record being the first transgender to argue before the Supreme Court. Is this more of the identity politics that they were hoping to use to bolster their case?
SPEAKER 06 :
Well, I think absolutely. This is an advocate that went on a TV interview the day before his argument and said that a two-year-old can make a decision about whether or not to change their gender. Obviously, that’s not what Americans believe. It shows that this is more political than it is legal, and we need to do right by our kids to make sure that those who are suffering from gender dysphoria have the right type of treatment, but we don’t want them to be experiments that harm them for the rest of their lives.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, this is something that we will look back on, I think, in years from now. Hopefully, we’ll look back knowing we got it right.
SPEAKER 01 :
General Marshall, always great to see you.
SPEAKER 12 :
Thanks so much for stopping in today and joining us. Thank you. Folks, this is an issue we need to continue to pray. Because these are individuals, these young people, they have some really significant issues that they need to be able to work through, but work through correctly. So after the break, we’re going to be talking with Dr. Jennifer Valens about this a little bit more. So don’t go away.
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Thank you. The throne of Jesus Christ is unchallenged. His name was never on the ballot to begin with, and it’s never going to be on the ballot. He’s the King of Kings, and he’s the Lord of Lords, and nothing’s going to change that. And so our mission stays the same, preach the gospel, make disciples, get ready for heaven. In the meantime, that we’re to advance the concerns of the kingdom of God here on earth.
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I don’t hear it in my earpiece. I don’t know if I did something wrong or… in prayer. Text the word SHIELD to 67742 to join us. You’ll have access to prayer points, scripture, prayer calls. Text SHIELD to 67742. Unite with us and pray for our nation.
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Let’s not be discouraged. Don’t lose heart. Don’t lose the faith. Stand now strong because the Lord has given us the great privilege of living in a time when our choices matter, when our lives matter, when our courage matters. So let’s stand together and save this great country. God bless the United States of America.
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The American Republic has a freedom like no other. It has roots in the scriptures far more than any other. And if we as followers of Jesus and conservatives don’t defend it, who will?
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Neutrality is not an option. There are many Christians who believe that if we just keep our heads down, if we just don’t say the wrong thing, that somehow we will come out of this unscathed. Okay, can you hear me okay? Because what they want from us is not our silence.
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If I tilt it down too much more, I’m not going to be able to see well.
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Part of the dilemma of Christianity in our generation is that we’ve relied a little too much on human wisdom and human reason, human strength, human resource, and we’ve relied too little on the power of God and God’s ability to open doors that we can’t open and do things that we couldn’t even hope to begin to do.
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This may not be an easy task, But we are living in a moment of challenge, but also a great opportunity. And we know, always, that we are not alone, that his spirit empowers us and protects us, and that he can do the unimaginable. Dobbs, after all, was never supposed to happen.
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Father, we thank you. You have entrusted us with this moment in history, and I pray that we would be found faithful, and that as a result of our faithfulness to you, that thousands, millions would come into the kingdom as they would experience the forgiveness of sin and the new life that is found only in Jesus Christ. Amen. Welcome back to this Wednesday edition of Washington Watch. Good to have you with us. And by the way, let me remind you once again, you can get a copy of the Stand on the Word Journal Part 2. It comes out. It’s out. It’s ready. It starts in January. So you can order your copy if you’re on this journey. You’ll need the second part. So text JOURNAL to 67742. That’s JOURNAL to 67742. In the last segment, I was discussing with Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall the legal arguments in the case that was before the U.S. Supreme Court regarding Tennessee’s law that protects minors from so-called gender transition procedures, which are both experimental and they’re surgical and they’re irreversible. Now I want to turn a little bit to the scientific aspects of this issue, as well as really the emotional issues, the psychological issues. So joining me now to discuss this is Dr. Jennifer Ballins, Director of the Center for Family Studies here at the Family Research Council. Dr. Ballins has worked extensively as a researcher and a clinician providing trauma-focused treatment to children in foster care and behavioral health settings, and also to adults who’ve experienced interpersonal traumas.
SPEAKER 09 :
Dr. Bowens, thanks for joining us today. Good to be with you, Tony.
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You spoke at the rally there on the steps of the Supreme Court in support of Tennessee’s law earlier today. Give us a sense of what the environment was like there.
SPEAKER 09 :
It was a wild scene, Tony. You know, it’s always interesting when the only arguments people have are to get very angry and emotional. And of course, we had emotion on our side, too. I mean, this issue is very, it’s a lightning rod, for sure. But, you know, we had people coming over from the other side with horns while we’re talking and blaring them. That’s typical. That’s typical.
SPEAKER 12 :
I’ve been there many times and they try to shout you down because they really can’t defend the position that they’re holding. Therefore, they want to silence the opposition. And that’s really what we’re seeing in this cancel culture. But inside the courtroom, the facts were talked about. Now, we were talking about this with Attorney General Steve Marshall, that it was focused more on the legal, not so much the scientific. They didn’t get into that. That obviously is disappointing because that’s one of the areas that you focused on.
SPEAKER 09 :
yeah and you know some of the things that should be brought out which i’ve mentioned in testimonies before which is we don’t have any research that shows you know you let’s just for a minute play that this is a real idea um you know we don’t have any research that says who’s gonna you know enjoy gender affirming care over time um you know there’s such thing as non-binary and fluid gender that you who’s going to stay the opposite sex for how long and so then you remove their body parts and then they decided a year from now that they’re actually you know swashing back to a different gender and you know ideally in the scientific world you’d have instruments that you would develop that would predict those types of things But we’re just going in like the Wild West, just performing all kinds of crazy experiments on children without any sense of real grounding in the scientific method. And that’s why I said in my speech today, these procedures should have never been performed on a single child.
SPEAKER 12 :
You know, I think in years from now, we’ll look back on this as we have on other things that have been done in this country where you know that people have been sterilized and other actions have been taken even you look to what the nazis did in their medical experimentation that they did on human beings now i know they did i don’t want to do total comparison but the fact is we look back on that and we’re we’re shocked that we allowed that to happen And I think this is one of those moments. But that said, Dr. Bounds, these things are real, the emotions that these individuals, the gender dysphoria. But what’s been missing, and you and I have talked about this before, is to go to the source of the issue that’s driving the dysphoria, the fact they’re uncomfortable, they don’t feel like they’re in the right sex. Usually this is attached to some form of trauma.
SPEAKER 09 :
Yeah, that’s right. And a lot of the think tanks on the other side who are in support of this issue, their own research has shown that a number of people who are trans-identified have big, huge trauma histories. I mean, we’re talking a significant portion of people and those are just the ones who know enough to claim that. So we’re not even talking about the people who don’t even have a sense of what trauma is, which you might think that that seems illogical, but it’s true. Doing trauma work, a lot of times people are so accustomed to living a certain way and experiencing horrific things that they don’t identify that.
SPEAKER 12 :
When we say trauma, give us some, our viewers and listeners, some sense of the type of trauma we’re talking about.
SPEAKER 09 :
Well, sexual abuse, physical abuse, some forms of emotional abuse. You know, when someone is calling you names and degrading your personhood or withholding basic… care from your life, especially as a child. These are forms of abuse that many of the trans-identified people have gone through. And again, maybe it’s not to that level, but usually you can, if you work with someone, you can find a source of where this idea came from. And that’s what’s not happening in the mental health profession.
SPEAKER 12 :
And that becomes, it can become kind of a defense mechanism. as well to keep this trauma from occurring again. So as we debate this public policy, and we’re firmly, you know, we stand on the truth, man and woman, God created male and female, but we need to approach it with compassion and understanding that these are people that are often hurting.
SPEAKER 09 :
and they need help it’s just not through a scalpel or through drugs experimental drugs it’s something else that they’re in search of and they need help with yeah yeah and we’re actually uh our society has been making it worse for these folks because now they have trauma upon trauma to deal with The very people that they went to for help are inflicting more trauma through the very supposed answer that they are giving them. We’re going to have a lot of people who’ve been affected by this, not only that have to deal with the root cause, but now they have to deal with forgiving a whole profession that has led them astray. Blind leading the blind.
SPEAKER 12 :
Yeah, and it is something we absolutely need to be praying about and praying for these individuals. It’s real for them, and we need to help them find a way out that is right and will lead to a fulfilling life for them. Dr. Balance, always great to see you. Thanks so much for joining us. All right, folks, don’t go away. It begins here. and here and here every day before you stand you need solid ground standing in a culture that wants you to surrender the truth won’t work unless you have a firm foundation At Family Research Council, we have that firm foundation, and you can find us standing. We stand for the value of all human life. We stand for the right of families to flourish. Every day, we stand for your freedom to believe and to live out those beliefs, both at home and abroad. We work with government officials, educating them on the issues from a biblical worldview, and when necessary, we hold them accountable. We equip Christians across America to be informed and to take action in their communities. With our daily radio program, television appearances, and vast online presence, we reach people where they are. We envision an America where all human life is valued, families flourish, and religious liberty thrives. That won’t be realized if we’re not standing. Stand for faith. Stand for family. Stand for freedom. Stand with us at FRC.
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Did you know there are many faithful Christians on Capitol Hill fighting alongside Family Research Council for Faith and Family and Freedom? Download the StandFirm app today to view the latest video series from FRC, Defending the Faith, Profiles in Leadership. The series features exclusive sit-down interviews with our nation’s leaders that go beyond the policies and politics to the events that brought them to Washington, D.C. Download the StandFirm app today.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, welcome back to Washington Watch. Good to have you with us. And I do want to encourage you to pray into these situations. That’s what’s different about Washington Watch. We’re not only giving you the news, but from a biblical perspective and giving you something to pray about. And we need to pray for these young people that have been led down this path of confusion. And there’s a lot of contributing factors, but we know what the source of help is for them. We need to pray for them. In fact, Operation Prayer Shield, as we’re praying for our country right now in this interim period between administrations, this is our prayer point for today. You can join us in Operation Prayer Shield. Simply text SHIELD, that’s S-H-I-E-L-D to 67742 and join us in praying for our nation. And our allies as well. And here’s something else to pray about. South Korean President Yoon Seok-yool is facing an impeachment vote later this week following his declaration of martial law yesterday. He was forced to lift it six hours later when the National Assembly voted unanimously to overturn it. Now, the last time martial law was imposed in South Korea was in 1980. seven years before the country transitioned from a military dictatorship to a democracy now considering how south korea has been hailed as a success story in democracy building and also you know you look back the church has grown significantly in south korea christianity What’s happening over there? Where did these events come from? And what does this tell us about the future? Joining me now to discuss this is Asian affairs expert Gordon Chang. He’s a distinguished senior fellow at the Gatestone Institute and author of several books, including his latest, Plan Red, China’s Project to Destroy America. You can follow him on X under the handle at Gordon G. Chang. Gordon, welcome back to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thanks so much, Tony.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, so where did this come from? Give us a little background on what’s been taking place there in South Korea. This was a conservative president. What’s happening?
SPEAKER 11 :
Well, Yusuf Yul was extremely unpopular for his domestic affairs, and clearly there were so many issues, including, for instance, one that has attracted a lot of attention, his wife getting photographed accepting a very expensive culture handbag. But it was just one disaster after another. Now, this is the same Yoon Suk-yeol who has been a hero of freedom in North Asia.
SPEAKER 10 :
He very bravely, to his great detriment in terms of popularity in South Korea,
SPEAKER 11 :
But this was a profile-encouraged moment. He started coordinating with Japan at the insistence of the United States. Now, previous South Korean presidents had refused to do that because they realized how unpopular it was, but Yoon put himself on the line.
SPEAKER 01 :
And that helped to build a coalition to contain a very aggressive North Korea and a very aggressive China.
SPEAKER 11 :
But Yoon decided that he was going to do something which was unimaginable, which is declare martial law.
SPEAKER 10 :
He did it incompetently. He rescinded it, as you pointed out, after six hours. And he is going to have to resign. If he’s not going to resign, he’s probably going to be impeached on Friday or Saturday.
SPEAKER 11 :
And that will cause a crisis in South Korea.
SPEAKER 12 :
What might that mean for the United States as we have a transition of administrations here, Donald Trump coming in, a conservative? What does the future look like there?
SPEAKER 11 :
It doesn’t look good, Tony. And the reason is that the conservative forces have always been very pro-America. The progressive or the leftist camp has been very anti-America. And for instance, Yoon’s immediate predecessor, Moon Jae-in of the Democratic Party of Korea, a leftist, was essentially governing like a North Korean. And he did all as possible to undermine the alliance with the United States. So for instance, when President Trump visited Seoul during his first term, Moon did all he could to disrespect not only President Trump, but the United States of America. This could go back to a very difficult time, because this will embolden the North Koreans and the Chinese. And we know that with a weakened president or prime minister who will become president, then you have a point where the North Koreans may think they can use their leverage in South Korean society through the unions to try to change the form of governance in South Korea.
SPEAKER 12 :
Now, Yoon had said that he was taking these actions of martial law in part because of the influence of North Korean communists. Is there evidence that there has been infiltration?
SPEAKER 11 :
Oh, yes. I mean, it’s clear.
SPEAKER 10 :
And everyone knows it.
SPEAKER 11 :
The Democratic Party of Korea is heavily infiltrated by North Koreans. And as I mentioned, Moon Jae-in, the leftist president, governed as if he were a North Korean asset. But that doesn’t mean that Yoon should have done what he did, which was to declare martial law, because that was going to be always extremely unpopular. You know, there had been talk about martial law in the months leading up to this, but nobody thought that it would actually occur because it was just inconceivable. Yoon made it inconceivable, and he’s going to pay the price for it.
SPEAKER 12 :
We only got about 45 seconds left, Gordon, but the church has grown significantly and been a major factor in South Korea. What has happened there? Has something happened with the church-state relationship or the influence of the church?
SPEAKER 11 :
The church is still very strong in Korea. And it was not only just South Korea. The church was strong in North Korea as well before the Kim regime.
SPEAKER 19 :
And there are still Christian communities in North Korea.
SPEAKER 11 :
In South Korea, the church is doing fine, and I think it will prosper. And this is a good story for Christianity in Asia.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right.
SPEAKER 11 :
Gordon Chang, always great to talk with you.
SPEAKER 12 :
I always appreciate your insights on what’s happening.
SPEAKER 11 :
Thank you so much, Tony.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, Gordon G. Chang, if you want to keep up with him on X. He’s the one I go to when I’m trying to figure out what’s happening in Asia. But another prayer item. As he said, this could complicate the U.S. relationship with South Korea, emboldening that axis of evil. All right, when we come back, we’re going to get a view on updates. The latest congressional race has been called. Hello, I’m Tony Perkins, president of Family Research Council here in Washington, D.C. Behind me is one of the most recognizable buildings in all the world, the U.S. Capitol. What does it stand for? Well, most people say government. I can’t hear you. Do you know the Bible talks about four institutions of government? Do you know what they are? And do we have a republic or a democracy? Well, what do you say? Also, what about the separation of church and state? Does that mean Christians shouldn’t be involved in government? Guess what? We address those issues and more in our new God and Government course. I invite you to join us to see what the historical record and the Bible has to say about government. Join us for God and Government.
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Oh, okay. It’s true that all ideas have consequences, but we’re less aware that all consequences are the fruit of ideas. Before there was murder, there was hate. Before there was a Holocaust, there was the belief by some people that other people are undesirable. Our beliefs determine our behavior, and our beliefs about life’s biggest questions determine our world view. Where did I come from? Who decides what is right and wrong? What happens when I die? Our answers to these questions explain why people see the world so differently. Debates about abortion are really disagreements about where life gets its value. Debates over sexuality and gender and marriage are really disagreements about whether the rules are made by us or for us. What we think of as political debates are often much more than that. They’re disagreements about the purpose of our lives and the source of truth. As Christians, our goal must be to think biblically about everything. Our goal is to help you see beyond red and blue, left and right, to see the battle of ideas at the root of it all. Our goal is to equip Christians with a biblical worldview and help them advance and defend the faith in their families, communities, and the public square. Cultural renewal doesn’t begin with campaigns and elections. It begins with individuals turning from lies to truth. But that won’t happen if people can’t recognize a lie and don’t believe truth exists. We want to help you see the spiritual war behind the political war, the truth claims behind the press release, and the forest and the trees.
SPEAKER 12 :
Welcome back to Washington Watch, the website TonyPerkins.com. All right, our word for today comes from Isaiah chapter 22. You looked in that day to the armor of the house of the forest. You also saw the damage to the city of David, that it was great. And you gathered together the waters of the lower pool. You numbered the houses of Jerusalem and the houses you broke down to fortify the wall. You also made a reservoir between the two walls for the water of the old pool. See, King Hezekiah took significant steps to protect Jerusalem from the Assyrian threat. Archaeologists have even uncovered some of the preparations mentioned by Isaiah gathering water, fortifying walls, and building reservoirs. Yet Isaiah points out to the core problem. Quote, “…you did not look to its maker, nor did you have respect for him who fashioned it long ago.” You see, these preparations, though practical, lacked reliance on God. Action is important, but it must be grounded in faith and submission to God’s will. Let us remember to act, but always begin by seeking Him. To find out more about our journey through the Bible, go to frc.org or text BIBLE to 67742. That’s BIBLE to 67742. Before I go to my next guest, I want to provide a quick election update. Now, tomorrow will mark one month since Election Day, and believe it or not, there was still one race that remained uncalled until yesterday, the one for California’s 13th congressional district. Now, here with a quick update on where things stand is Matt Carpenter, director of FRC Action. Matt, thanks for stopping by.
SPEAKER 14 :
Thanks, Tony.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, so it took a month, but we have finally gotten all of the results. Give us the results of California’s 13th congressional district.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, Tony, election season is over. I don’t know if a little extra turkey slowed down the vote there at the end in California, but we have the results for California’s 13th congressional district. As you pointed out, this is the last race from an election that we were tracking and trying to get results on. And Democrat Adam Gray prevailed over Republican incumbent John Dewar in that race by, I mean, almost a breathtakingly 187 votes. Tony, you and I both
SPEAKER 11 :
I’ve seen some close races over the years.
SPEAKER 14 :
I think this beats the record in the last election when Warren Buffett won by just over 200 votes. So races seem to be getting closer and closer nowadays.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, that’s amazing. Less than 200 votes. I mean, that’s the size of, you know, that’s smaller than the average church size. Especially in California, they’ve got these big churches. But a church, think about that for just a moment, one church, a couple families could actually make the difference in the outcome of one of these congressional races.
SPEAKER 14 :
Yeah, that’s exactly right. And I know there’s a lot of great folks on the ground in California who are working in churches, taking advantage of some of the ballot-chasing laws there in California, getting the word out and educating voters. And it’s just more evidence that all that work is needed. There’s more of it that needs to be done. As we look at the 2026 midterms already, it’s election season. It never ends, Tony.
SPEAKER 12 :
All right, Matt, so the last seat, last race is decided, California’s 13th. What does that leave in terms of the balance in the U.S. House of Representatives now that these races have all been called?
SPEAKER 14 :
So right now there’s 220 Republicans for the 119 Congress, 215 Democrats. That’s just a two-seat majority for Speaker Johnson with a 435-member body and 218 for a majority. So any additional drop-offs at this point is going to be problematic. It’s going to make the operations of the House that much more difficult. And as we already know, Matt Gaetz has resigned from Congress, and we’ll have a special election to fill his seat. We also know Elise DeVonick, a New York Republican, is going to go on to be potentially the U.N. ambassador under the Trump administration. And then, obviously, Michael Walz, who’s in the 4-6th congressional district, looks to have a national security advisor under the Trump administration. We’ll have some special elections in the spring.
SPEAKER 12 :
Where does that leave them beginning in January if we have those three members that won’t be there?
SPEAKER 14 :
They’ll be down to 218 members, Tony, and that’s the exact number you need for a majority. So, I mean, you can’t have a 6-8, you can’t have a member miss their flight.
SPEAKER 11 :
Things get really hairy at that point.
SPEAKER 14 :
So, you know, we’ll see how these special elections pan out. All three Republicans will be leaving Congress.
SPEAKER 11 :
are running in safe districts, or they ran actually in safe districts.
SPEAKER 14 :
And you’ve got to figure, you’ll probably have a Republican win those special elections, but you still have to run an election to see how that pans out.
SPEAKER 11 :
In Florida, we know January 28th is going to kick off.
SPEAKER 14 :
a special primary here in Florida. And then April 1st, we’ll have the results of those special elections in Florida. We have yet to get word on what’s going to happen in New York, the timing there. But I think it’s safe to say, you know, it’ll be a temporary 218-member conference for the House Republicans, probably around May or June. And I say, hey, you’ll get back to 220, but we’ll see.
SPEAKER 12 :
Well, here’s a prediction for you, Matt. I’m sure there’s going to be a lot of money spent in those three special elections. I think you can count on that. Matt Carpenter, thanks so much for taking time to give us an update today.
SPEAKER 14 :
Thanks, Tony.
SPEAKER 12 :
Wow. That was actually talking with the House Speaker about that over the weekend, that he’s going to have almost zero margins to work with when it comes to moving forward. President Trump, President-elect Trump’s 100-day agenda. So another prayer item, folks, and we’re going to have more on that as we get into the new Congress. This weekend, speaking of President-elect Trump, he will be making his first, I guess you would say, appearance on the global stage as president-elect by attending the reopening of the newly restored cathedral in the Notre Dame Cathedral in France, which was nearly destroyed in 2019 by a devastating fire. Now, Trump was invited by French President Emmanuel Macron to join him for this. And, of course, that country’s in the middle of a political crisis that deepened earlier today with the ousting of the French prime minister. Now, is there something happening in Europe that we need to be watching? And if so, what are the implications for us, just as we were talking about what’s happening in South Korea? Joining me now live from London to discuss this is Peter McElvenna. He’s the co-founder of Hearts of Oak, a freedom of speech alliance, and he works in the office of UK’s House of Lords. Peter, welcome back to Washington Watch.
SPEAKER 07 :
Great to be with you, Tony. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER 12 :
And thank you for staying up late. I know it’s late there in the UK. So let’s start with the news that broke just a few hours ago today. Today, a historic no confidence vote by the French Parliament. Tell us what’s happening there.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, Tony, it’s never too late to join you. But in France, we had the French Prime Minister, Michel Pion-Bornier, who’s known to British viewers because he was the one that basically headed up the Brexit negotiations on behalf of the EU. Very influential figure. He was put in by Emmanuel Macron after Macron’s big defeat, basically, in the last elections when Reem Le Pen came first. Got the biggest share of the vote. And instead of Marine Le Pen forming the government as the largest grouping, the two smaller groupings on the left came together. And that has not lasted. Michel Barnier, obviously the Prime Minister, appointed by the President. Similar, I guess, in Russia, we’re putting a point, the Prime Minister, similar in France. So the Prime Minister, the President Macron, appointed Barnier, who he thought would be a pick that everyone would accept. Now, he forced through a budget bill two days ago, I think, without a vote of Parliament, which is very strange. I’m not obviously upset. not only Marine Le Pen’s party, the largest party, but the far-left party. So left and right came together and said, we’re not having this. And they devoted no confidence. And Michel Barnier lost that by 330 to 280. So he will have to resign.
SPEAKER 12 :
So Peter, he’s a conservative. This was what he was pushing through in terms of the budget, as I understand it, was to address the out-of-control spending there in France. So what does this tell us about? Is there a political shift that’s taking place there in Europe?
SPEAKER 07 :
There is a big political shift, and this is what’s exciting to the FRC viewers, to the American audience, that this is Europe becoming open to President Trump stepping back into the White House. This is why I’m really excited what’s happened. We’ve seen changes in Austria, in the election in Austria. The German government have collapsed, and they’re going to have elections with a turner for Deutschland holding at 20%. We’ve got Macron being very weakened. You’ve always had that Franco-German alliance in the EU.
SPEAKER 01 :
It’s been Germany and France, the two big powers in Europe.
SPEAKER 07 :
Germany, very weak politically after Merkel left, and she has not been replaced. And in France, Macron’s become weaker and weaker. And that means, into that gap is… The populist parties that have done hugely well across Europe, whether it’s Viktor Orban in Hungary, whether it’s Maloney in Italy, whether it’s the Swedish Democrats doing exceptionally well up in Sweden, whether it’s the Freedom Party pulling extremely well in Austria.
SPEAKER 01 :
And on and on.
SPEAKER 07 :
In Spain, the populist party came second, and in Portugal came third. So there’s a resurgence of the nation-state, putting the nation above the EU. And that’s what really has put fear into the heart of Europe, the establishment. because they want the European Union project to continue, in which it’s telling those small states what they must do, and Germany and France telling them. But with that vacuum in Germany and France, with Marine Le Pen doing exceptionally well in the last election, I saw a poll, and she’s polling at 39% in an election that happened two days ago in France, so doing even better and better. And that means you’ve got a lot of parties actually in power or holding the reins of power because of coalitions who are very friendly and very open and very welcoming to President Trump. So I think instead of 2016 where there was a clash, now we could see an arrest, and I think that’s an extremely positive thing.
SPEAKER 12 :
Is that a part of Macron’s invitation to Trump to come there to Notre Dame this weekend?
SPEAKER 07 :
Macron will do whatever he has to do to survive. He is a survivor. He’s not a conviction politician. He will feel the public opinion and he will go with it. I don’t know what he really believes as a politician. Senator Keir Starmer in the UK, devoid of convictions. So it’s curious, when I saw President Trump had been invited, I saw that at the beginning of today, I was intrigued and pleasantly surprised.
SPEAKER 01 :
Maybe Biden can’t take international trips any longer. Maybe he’s not trusted outside the White House. I don’t know.
SPEAKER 07 :
But obviously Macron is trying to reach out, trying to position himself. And Macron and Keir Starmer in the UK, they’ve tried to position themselves as the new rulers, the new kings of Europe. But they’re both very weak in terms of many areas. So I think this is Macron trying to save his skin, reach out to President Trump. But President Trump remembers and knows how some of the European leaders treated him in the past and has a long memory. So I think that he will be able to bypass Macron, really, and go to other governments and leaders that are much more positive and embracing of America, revitalising itself and reaching out to the world and beginning to address some of the issues we face worldwide.
SPEAKER 12 :
Peter, we just have a few minutes left, but I want to transition to a topic you and I have talked about as it pertains to the UK, but it applies to all of Europe, and that is the presence of Christianity and Orthodox religion as it pertains to the Christian faith. The President going there for the rededication or the unveiling of the rebuilt cathedral. That’s a centerpiece. I mean, that’s an iconic place there in France, but it no longer represents what it once did. Give us the state of play from a standpoint of the influence of Orthodox Christianity in Europe and what that means for the future.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, I was in Paris.
SPEAKER 12 :
I think we lost it. Right when I was getting to the heart of what we wanted to talk about. Well, maybe we’ll get him back. I don’t know. Somewhere between here and the UK, we lost the signal.
SPEAKER 07 :
I’m back, yeah? There he is. All right. Go right ahead. I don’t know what happened across the water, but I was in Paris just four weeks ago outside the Notre Dame Cathedral, just obviously before it opened.
SPEAKER 01 :
And it’s a glorious building, over 800 years old.
SPEAKER 07 :
And I would lose some of the statistics. I mean, the spire was built of oak, burned down, obviously, in that fire five years ago. But it was 750 tonnes of oak lined with lead. And those oak trees were cut down in 1160.
SPEAKER 01 :
That shows the history and heritage.
SPEAKER 07 :
Now, that has changed.
SPEAKER 01 :
I know in the UK, in the last five years, we have seen 200 churches affected by arson.
SPEAKER 07 :
And about a year ago, in 2022, in the European Parliament, an MEP talked about attacks on 613 churches across Europe.
SPEAKER 01 :
So we are seeing…
SPEAKER 07 :
That is an attack on that, but then also we are seeing nations of collapsing Christianity in the UK, which has had an assisted suicide bill, assisted dying bill passed, where you can help someone end their life.
SPEAKER 01 :
And that’s been hotly debated for 30 years in the UK, and that has now getting pushed through. And a bishop yesterday was saying that
SPEAKER 07 :
that the UK has lost its Christian ethos, its Christian basis, whenever it thinks actually the killing of those who are no longer beneficial to society is a positive thing. And we’ve seen that happen across Europe and Belgium, and you can now have children killing themselves if they’re depressed.
SPEAKER 01 :
So we are seeing a change in what it means for life.
SPEAKER 07 :
Because churches are not there shining brightly, teaching people, teaching school children what life is all about. We’re all made in the image of God. And you take away that, then anything fills into that vacuum. And we are seeing a culture of death across Europe.
SPEAKER 12 :
Very quickly, I’ve got 30 seconds left, but Peter, as American politics influence Europe through Trump, could also we see the church of the United States impact Europe as well?
SPEAKER 07 :
Oh, big time. I think many European churches are looking to this day to look at that confidence of actually what it means to have a Christian worldview, a Christian ethos. And when Trump goes back into the White House and speaks truth, then Europe will be watching and I think we’ll see churches excited, growing and embracing their heritage once again.
SPEAKER 12 :
Wow. Well, we look forward to being a part of that conversation with you as that time comes.
SPEAKER 02 :
Thanks so much for joining us.
SPEAKER 12 :
And folks, thank you for joining us as well.
SPEAKER 02 :
We’re out of time. Until next time, keep standing. Washington Watch with Tony Perkins is brought to you by Family Research Council and is entirely listener supported. Portions of the show discussing candidates are brought to you by Family Research Council Action. For more information on anything you heard today or to find out how you can partner with us in our ongoing efforts to promote faith, family, and freedom, visit TonyPerkins.com.
