In a historic move, indirect peace talks between Israel and Hamas have commenced in Cairo, sparking hope for an end to the long-standing conflict. Pressures mount as international delegations join forces, urging Hamas to adhere to a plan that promises hostages’ release and a subsequent ceasefire. However, skepticism remains with many questioning the group’s true intentions after witnessing years of persistent conflict. President Trump’s firm ultimatum stands: a call for peace or complete obliteration. Join us as we delve into the intricacies of these negotiations and discuss the potential impacts on global politics and anti-Semitic tensions.
SPEAKER 04 :
President Trump makes final warning to Hamas, ceasefire now or complete obliteration.
SPEAKER 06 :
Keeping you informed and engaged, now more than ever, this is Seculo. We want to hear from you. Share and post your comments or call 1-800-684-3110. And now your host, Logan Sekula.
SPEAKER 04 :
Welcome to Sekula. Will Haines joining me in studio. CeCe Heil later on. Mike Pompeo also later on. It’s going to be a packed show. Give us a call if you have a question or comment at 1-800-684-3110. That’s 1-800-684-3110. Excited to have us be back here on a Monday as we are still awaiting A formal response. It seems like it’s going to happen, though, from Hamas, as things seem to be heading in the right direction for a potential end to the war. President Trump is certainly not backing down, saying that kind of this is it, now or never, it’s time, or really they’re going to give the A-OK to Israel to do what they have to do. And, of course, that is not what is wanted. That certainly is not wanted from the Trump administration. They want to see peace. They want to see some kind of negotiated deal. But it’s now in Hamas’s court, if you will, as it’s been for numerous days now. But now we are seeing potentially as they’re having what? What do they call them? Their meetings, but they’re not together.
SPEAKER 07 :
Negotiations, their indirect talks between Israel and Hamas. And this comes after Hamas said they’re committed to reaching an agreement to end the war. What they are negotiating in Cairo today is, and there’s American delegations there, there’s from the other Arab partners have delegations there, as well as Israel and Hamas, is they are negotiating how they will carry out that first step of the plan, which is release all the hostages and begin the ceasefire. So that’s what they’re talking about today. They are expected to get into the technical details of how to implement that first phase. All the other things flow after that. So if they can’t even get to an agreement of how to release the hostages and start that ceasefire, then none of the other stuff will flow from that. But Hamas is saying they’re committed to reaching an agreement. We’ll see what happens today.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yeah, hopefully we get some sort of answers today. We’ll keep you updated throughout the day if there is anything big and breaking. that we’ll need to cover. So make sure if you’re watching right now to subscribe on our YouTube channel or wherever you get our show, make sure you’re a part of the team right now. That’s at aclj.org. Phone lines, like I said, are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. That is to have your voice heard on the air. Do you think this is it? Now there’s obviously the thought process of, what does the end of a war really look like when you fought a multi-thousand year war what does it look like from the response from the more liberal side of this are they going to be happy i mean some of my friends are are happy in general that are more on the other side of this they want the war to just be over and they want if you just are searching for an end of a war that’s great they’ve already seen the seeds being planted of well that’s not going to forgive israel for what they’ve done for the genocide that they’ve, quote unquote, genocide that they have put onto these people. So then what does that look like then? Does the protest still happen? Do they still happen in the streets? Do we still see a response, an anti-Semitic response throughout the world? That is going to be the turning point that we see. There’s honestly another interesting bit of this is in how the Jewish people are accepted and how Israelis are accepted around the world. We saw a number of performers and artists, musicians, pull their music, geo-block their music from Israel as if that is going to really do any good, that doesn’t come off racist at all, that you are blaming an entire country over what their government, you’ve decided the government’s not going to do. But you also see cancellations. Robbie Williams, who’s a big… Probably one of the biggest stars on a global platform. Not really as big of America’s success, but he’s been a huge star outside of America. He has a stadium tour right now that was supposed to end in Turkey this week. I think it was actually supposed to be tomorrow. So on October 7th, it was supposed to end on October 7th. They’ve had so many threats, and his wife is a Turkish-born Jewish woman. They’ve had so many threats calling him a Zionist that Turkey decided that they could not figure out a way to secure that stadium enough to have the show and cancel the end of their tour, which was supposed to end in this big celebratory night of, again, probably the least political show you probably could go to, would be to see Robbie Williams. But of course, because he has some Jewish connections and has a Hebrew tattoo, that is enough. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. Also, think about supporting the work of the ACLJ. If you become an ACLJ champion today, I want to say thank you to all the champions already, the tens of thousands of you. But if you can become a champion, that’s great. That’s someone who gives on a monthly basis. Go to ACLJ.org. Scan the QR code that’s on your screen. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to Sekulow. Thanks for joining us today. Again, Will Haines in studio with me right now, and we’ll have some other guests later on. As we are talking about the plan right now that could end the war in Gaza, as we have a final deal, Will, that is sitting on the shoulders of Israel. They have agreed to it, but Hamas has not yet fully agreed. Even though they’ve said, we’ll release all the hostages, they have not come to the final agreements on some of the planned Following steps. Following steps, which were pretty aggressive, which would have been very impressive if President Trump was able to pull that off. But they’re even calling this the Trump plan. We’re seeing that the way Netanyahu is referring to this. And he even said if the Trump plan doesn’t get signed, then America is sort of given the go-ahead for them to finish the job.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, and that’s why these next few days are so important to this because they are there actually negotiating how to implement the first portions of this plan, which that was what President Trump was very clear about up front is that all the hostages have to be released. So remember, there’s 48 hostages that they believe are remaining either alive or dead in the hands of Hamas at this point they are demanding all of those whether living or the remains of those that have passed away or been killed by Hamas to be returned to Israel on the other side of that there’s some prisoner releases that can come from this from the Israeli side giving back to the Palestinian side some of those are people that were arrested post-October 7th Others are people that were just in prison in Israel from previous times as well. There’s normally, whenever you get to one of the end of these wars between Israel and Hamas, there is this kind of prisoner swap situation going on. Normally, it’s not civilian hostages that you’re dealing with. So if we can get that done in the next few days, if they can come to a framework where where that piece begins and all the hostages are returned home, as well as the beginning of that ceasefire. I think that gives a very big sign to the world that we could see this get all the way to the end. Because the other parts, once they start giving up what really has been their bargaining chip to some degree, the other parts, it’s going to be harder for them to push back when you’ve got Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, qadr the uae turkey all of these countries that are more favorable to the cause of the palestinians than they are to israel saying hey you’re gonna get this done this time yeah there’s a there’s a call coming in i want to take because it kind of it begs that question let’s go to phil in new york who is listening on the radio phil go ahead
SPEAKER 01 :
Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Don’t get me wrong when I ask this. I’m a fervent supporter of Israel, and I donate a lot of money to Israeli charities. That having been said, self-preservation is a strong motive, both for an individual and an organization. Why, therefore, would Hamas agree to a deal that gets rid of them?
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, Phil, I understand your point here. It does call for the end of Hamas. What it doesn’t do is it really gives immunity to all of those currently Working with Hamas, the leadership, they’re going to be held for no issues, no criminality. Kind of all is forgiven in a way. So there’s two different options. They can either stay in the country and agree to nonviolence or they can not agree to nonviolence and be moved to another country. But either way, the deal actually provides for the people who currently are in Hamas uh to walk away to end this so i mean yes self-preservation is strong this could be the self-preservation they need because we know when the israeli military comes in because these are the like what this is like the 10th string yeah hamas leadership at this point well and phil i think that you were spot on by saying self-preservation is a strong motive for anyone
SPEAKER 07 :
Because I think a lot of the people that are the leaders of Hamas now have seen the writing on the wall. People like Yahya Senwar, who was untouchable, really, for some reason. They can never really take out the leadership of Hamas. And that has happened. So they’ve seen these people that are in the position now probably never expected ever to rise to the level of leadership in Hamas that they have now. They’ve seen all their previous leadership be killed by Israel. They know that Israel is going to keep doing that. If it gives this disavow violence and stay in Gaza, they can remain where they are or safe passage out. That is the most motivating factor here would be self-preservation on a personal level. But I also do want to point out in their response that they sent To President Trump on this is the on Hamas’s response to US President Trump’s proposal. This is a statement President Trump put it out on True Social. They say they go through a lot of the stuff before and says as for other issues included in President Trump’s proposal concerning the future of the Gaza Strip. and then the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people. This is tied to a collective national position and in accordance with relevant international laws and resolutions to be discussed within a comprehensive Palestinian national framework in which Hamas will be included and will contribute with full responsibility. So that is one of the hangups that they will have to negotiate out. Hamas is at least on board to start this movement. But remember, they’re also iffy and probably having a lot of internal discussion and disagreement about that key point, Phil. There are probably those true believers still that are like, no, Hamas, we’re going to get back to running this one day. We shouldn’t just allow them to disband us and scatter us throughout the Middle East.
SPEAKER 04 :
And of course, tomorrow is the anniversary. It’s October 7th tomorrow. We know that things will be heated tomorrow. There will be, not just emotionally, you will see security ramped up in a lot of these areas in Israel and probably around Europe, around the country, maybe even around the world. There may be even more security here. As we know, this is going to be a moment of contention. So if they could come up with agreement tonight, that could change everything. If you actually see some of these hostages being released in the next 24 hours, But maybe you do have that sort of goodwill signal that brings us to what could be at least a quote unquote end of the war. And when we say that, look, I understand this is the Middle East. I understand these are religiously motivated people. These are people that are not going to just, like you said, easily stand down. And there will always be fringe. There will always be the fringe terror groups, not just Hamas as leadership. There will be sure members of those teams. There will always be this kind of terror crime that happens in the Middle East. I’m obviously afraid that there won’t be. But if history has told us one thing, that it doesn’t just go away completely. Now, there are times of relative peace. You could say there was a large amount of years there in Israel where, sure, there were moments and rockets and those kind of things, but it wasn’t. an all-out war. So hopefully we at least can get back to that, get back to a standard where you feel comfortable as a tourist, you feel comfortable visiting Israel, that they’ve made Gaza a place where you could visit potentially after a certain amount of time of rebuilding and everything that they could do there. Because we’ve represented people in those areas. There’s Christians in those areas. There were Jewish people in those areas. The only ones that are left right now are those that are being held hostage. So remember that as well. The only Jewish people in Gaza currently are either military right now or the only civilians are those who are there as hostages. And look, we’ll see also what this looks like. We know that before the numbers of hostages that were available to be released, if you will, was not as high as they were expecting. Hopefully that’s not the case. Hopefully the intelligence says that a lot of them are alive and that you’ll at least have 20 or so people who can be freed. But we’ll see and we’ll keep you updated. Look, this is our ongoing fight here. You have seen so much of a turn against Israel over the last few weeks, last few months in the mainstream press, in the conservative sphere, that it’s obviously put a lot of us, a lot of stress on a lot of us who are supportive. Again, you don’t have to be supportive of a government. I understand there are people who support the idea of America, but did Nona support President Trump or didn’t support Joe Biden? Of course, we’d be critical of a government. But the idea of extinguishing a country and making sure a country doesn’t exist is very different. You can disagree with, of course, they’re just as partisan there as we are here. As you are, by the way, look at the rest of the world. Look what’s going on in the UK. Look what’s going on in Europe. We’re all kind of going through this same moment in time in a lot of these places. And let’s say the Western world.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, and I think what will be very telling is if this goes through and this entire plan gets implemented, and that would be a historic feat. If those people that are going around protesting Israel, targeting Jews in public, does that stop? Or is the mask really pulled off? Is it really, you know what? They weren’t really about the Palestinian people. They really were the entire time just wanting the destruction of Israel. Were they really just targeting Jews? Were they really just supporting Hamas? I think that will tell us a lot. if this doesn’t kind of cool down around the world.
SPEAKER 04 :
I saw, I have to look at what the actress was. And it was an actress I was not that familiar with, but she’s a famous actress. And she put up when Larry Ellison is purchasing TikTok. Right. She put, here’s the new TikTok logo. It was the colors of TikTok, but it was the star of David. And say like, that’s all it’s going to be now. Controlled media by Jewish people. That’s different. That’s a different conversation. It’s like you’re confusing so many different things. and lumping them all together. We’ve been preaching that for years and years, but here we are. And with that, phone lines are open. Six lines right now. 1-800-684-3110. I want to hear from you. Coming up, CeCe Hiles is going to be joining us. We’re going to give you a little bit of an update on a case involving the ACLJ that you’re going to like. You’re not going to want to miss that. So if you want a little break from the Israel content, that’s what’s coming up next. We’ll circle back around as well, though, in the next half hour. And then we’ll be joined by Mike Pompeo to wrap up the show with your calls and comments. Again, phone lines are open for you. And support the work of the ACLJ today if you can. While we’re in break, go to ACLJ.org. Make a donation. Become a champion. Welcome back to Seculo. Phone lines are open for you at 1-800-684-3110. 1-800-684-3110. CeCe Hiles joining us here, senior attorney at the ACLJ with a bit of an update on another outrageous ACLJ case. One of those ones you can’t believe is true. Of course, a lot of times these are on a small scale. You think, okay, this is going to be an individual, but of course that affects everyone worldwide, nationwide at least. And this one just feels unbelievable when you’re talking about people of faith Being treated differently. You don’t want to say the word persecuted because we can think of that as what’s going on around the world and in a global sense of what’s happening in all over the world for Christians that are being murdered for their faith. We’re not talking about that. We are talking about people that are being treated unjustly or being treated differently just because they’ve decided they want to be, they want to talk about their faith. So I’ll let you set this up.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah, and here we’re going to talk once again about a Bible club in a school, which everyone who’s listening would probably say, why are we talking about a Bible club? Of course, Bible clubs can be set up at school. You can have a Bible club at school. But unfortunately, we still fight this, even though we’ve gone all the way to the Supreme Court, and Jay Sekulow, your father, has won this issue multiple times at the Supreme Court level. Of course, you can have a Bible club. However, in Minnesota, they don’t know that. So we are representing a ninth grade girl who in May, and this is what’s even more egregious about this. In May, she went to the principal to say that she wanted to start a Bible club. And after he grilled her for a long time of what she was going to discuss, what her club was about, he said, you need to come and talk to me back in September. So shut her down in May, tells her to come back in September. She comes back in September and she says that she wants to set up this Bible club and she also wants to have a see you at the pole prayer time. Of course, what his response is to CU at the poll is you’re too late. Even though he shut her down in May when she was very much on time, you’re too late when he tells her to come back in September. So she doesn’t get to do CU at the poll, which is constitutionally protected right that she can do. But on top of that, she’s told that she can have a Bible club, but she has to pay for it. Now, none of the other student clubs have to pay. What does that even mean?
SPEAKER 07 :
Basically, you have to rent the space in the school to have your student club. But there’s other clubs. There’s Boy Scouts that meet there. There’s Girl Scouts. There’s 4-H club. There’s a litany of clubs that take place. Treating like a church renting out a theater. And that’s the rub there.
SPEAKER 04 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
The principal, instead of classifying it as a student-run group like the secular groups, the principal decided to categorize this Bible study club as a church instead of a student-run group.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yeah. And they actually have different allocations for like there’s a group, B group, C group, D group. And the B group is the student led groups. But she’s not being charged under that. She’s not being allowed to operate under that. She’s now moved into a church group, which is completely different. This is a student. Ninth grade student.
SPEAKER 04 :
So how is this not just like open and shut, done tomorrow?
SPEAKER 05 :
It is, and here’s the thing. We have sent a demand letter, which we always try to do, settle it out of court. We have given them until we give them a week. We’ve given them until Wednesday to respond. If they do not, we will be filing on Thursday. And again, we believe that the courts, it will be open and shut because you have the Equal Access Act and the First Amendment that protects this Completely.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, and it’s back to that, the old from the court case, but Des Moines, where it’s you don’t check your you don’t lose your constitutional rights at the schoolhouse gate. And here specifically, it’s classic viewpoint discrimination.
SPEAKER 05 :
Yes.
SPEAKER 07 :
You can have a club that student run free of charge at our school, use the facilities unless it’s a Christian group. then you have to pay to use the school facilities. If that was across the board, school groups have to pay a small fee to rent the space. That wouldn’t be the constitutional violation. I mean, students may not, and parents may not be happy with that, but you can’t say all of these get to just use the facilities. But you, we’re going to consider you a church ninth grade student that wants to have a Christian club here. That’s why it’s so absurd. And honestly- Shocking that it got even this far.
SPEAKER 05 :
To this point, that’s right. And exactly what you said, the Equal Access Act, was implemented specifically for that, saying that you cannot treat a club differently just because of its faith message. And in fact, if you do, that’s not neutrality, that’s hostility, and that’s not allowed. And that’s exactly what we’re seeing here, hostility to a specific message. They’ve shut her down, but we’re ready to take this all the way up. I’m hopeful that they really just don’t know what they’re doing. And that our letter will, you know, get before their school attorney and this will be resolved quickly. They definitely don’t know what they’re doing.
SPEAKER 04 :
But I understand what you mean, that they’re not being hostile. They are just being dumb. They just don’t know the law, that they don’t understand that there is a difference here. And of course, we can show that to them real quickly. The difference is, though, listen, I mean, audience wise, if you’re watching, listen to this. We have CeCe. We have our entire ACLJ team. This is not free. It sounds laughable when you hear that this is what’s going to happen. You’re going to charge a ninth grader to run a Bible study or Bible club in her neighborhood. school where all the other clubs don’t have to pay some sort of fee. It sounds ridiculous, but because the fact that we’re able to do this and we’re able to actually go to court if necessary for this student, or even what we’ve had to put hours in already, to have attorneys attached to this, to have staff attached to this, to give it airtime. I mean, this is a real, this costs a real money. And that’s when we ask for support. We tell people to support the work of the ACLJ. It’s because these people cannot do this without us. Likely this would have been swept under the rug. No one would have ever known. But because we’re able to offer our services for free to these students, to parents, to people who need it, To you, if you’re watching right now, that is because people become ACLJ supporters. What’s on the screen right now, ACLJ champions, people that give on a monthly basis because we would not be able to do this without you. They would not be able to go to court or even have professional lawyers assigned to do this for free.
SPEAKER 05 :
That’s exactly right. Legal fees and litigation costs can be absurd. And most of these cases would never go anywhere and these rights would not be defended. But for our supporters at the ACLJ who allow us to do these cases over and over again, and we need to keep fighting, obviously.
SPEAKER 07 :
And honestly, a lot of times the bad actors, if they have a bias against people of faith or that is why they’re choosing to do what they’re doing, they almost bank on the fact that the person whose rights they’re violating doesn’t have the resources to actually fight it. Because it is so expensive. And if Wednesday comes and goes and we’re in federal court… That’s only happening because the ACLJ can go and be there with this ninth grade student. Without that, how many ninth graders around this country are having similar things happen, and they haven’t heard about the ACLJ, they don’t know it’s an option for them to fight back in court, and they think I’m just on my own. There’s no way I can ever afford it. I just won’t have the Bible study, or I’ll just have people over to my house. That’s not how it should be, but unfortunately, that’s how a lot of those things naturally play out. because they don’t expect someone like the ACLJ to get involved. But when we do, we use the full force of the ACLJ to go after and protect these students’ rights. And if you’re just hearing about this for the first time, go to aclj.org slash help if you or someone you know has had something similar happen. Because the school year’s back up and running. And I like to say that’s a constitutional violation season around the country. Yeah, it’s October. That means Christmas programs are starting. Right. So go ahead and go to ACLJ.org slash help if you or someone you know has had something similar at your school.
SPEAKER 04 :
Hey, we got a second half hour coming up. Make sure you join us. If you don’t get us live on your local station, we’re broadcasting live each and every day, 12 to 1 p.m. Eastern time. That is on ACLJ.org, YouTube channel, however you get us, Rumble. You can find us always there. And of course, archive later on, however you get your podcasts. We’re available there as well. Give me a call. We got some lines open at 1-800-684-3110. Going to talk about this. Going to talk a little more about Israel. We got a lot more coming up. Mike Pompeo is going to be joining us. So stay tuned or find us online at ACLJ.org. We’ll be right back.
SPEAKER 06 :
keeping you informed and engaged now more than ever. This is Sekulow. And now your host, Logan Sekulow.
SPEAKER 04 :
Welcome to the second half hour of Secula. Will Haynes joining me in studio, executive producer here of the show. Mike Pompeo is going to be joining us a little bit later, so stay tuned for that. Of course, we are talking about a few different topics. If you’ve just tuned in, you may have missed our topic we just did, which is on a case for the ACLJ, our organization here, the American Center for Law and Justice, where cases you think should be settled law, things will be done. Kids trying to start Bible clubs. And there are local schools being told, no, you have to be charged, eighth grader, ninth grader, because you’re a church. You’re not a student-led Bible club. And of course, we’re going to take that to court. And we can’t do that without you. And that’s why we ask for support, because all of that, no one gets charged for that. These students don’t get charged for it. Their parents don’t get charged for it. We’re able to offer it completely free. You have the best of the best. That’s because of our team here. And I always want to make sure you know that. Not just our media team, which, of course, the same with this show as well. The show doesn’t happen. You hear ads maybe in your local market. That doesn’t go to us. You get YouTube ads. The amount of money that is is so minuscule compared to the amount of money it costs to put on this show. So know when you support us, you support the media side and the legal side because both are incredibly important. We have to be able to share the word and also go to court when necessary. Of course, we are also talking about, well, the moment right now, the closest we’ve been in two years, and look, it’s two years tomorrow. was the start of this whole conflict where Hamas brutally murdered a thousand plus people who were just going to music festivals or in a kibbutz, paragliding in, all the things that we saw, the horrible imagery. I believe it’s been two years of battle since then. Now, some of it has been the global PR messaging between Israel and Hamas, and the lack of support from Israel has been shocking. I wouldn’t even say shocking. It’s not shocking. Maybe the anti-Semitic rhetoric that has surrounded this, not just people who don’t support the government of Israel, anti-Semitic rhetoric that has surrounded this has been extreme. And of course, now we are at the two-year mark just tomorrow, and there is a deal on the table.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s right, and I think we should hear this from Secretary of State Marco Rubio. He was on, I believe it was Meet the Press yesterday and some of the other Sunday shows, Fox News Sunday, etc., talking about this, making the rounds, getting this out there. And here’s what he had to say about the negotiations that are starting today that are about the implementation of the deal, that first phase, which is getting the hostages home. Let’s go ahead and play Byte 4.
SPEAKER 02 :
No one here can tell you this is 100% guaranteed. We are dealing at the end of the day with Hamas. This is the group that October 7th, two years ago, came in and basically butchered babies and teenage girls at a music concert and took hostages and did horrific atrocities. That’s who we’re dealing with here. We’re not dealing with a political movement. We are dealing with killers and savages and terrorists. That’s who we’re dealing with. That said, what gives you hope here is that at least there now is a framework for how all of this can come to an end and those hostages can be released. What gives you hope here is the fact that for the first time in this entire endeavor, you have… the United Arab Emirates, you have Qatar, you have Saudi Arabia, you have Turkey, you have Egypt, you have Jordan, you have Indonesia, you have all these countries, the European countries, all lined up behind a plan and putting a tremendous amount of pressure to make it happen. And President Trump’s the one that put that together.
SPEAKER 07 :
And once again, even as we talked about, when this framework came out, Just over a week ago, I believe. I mean, it wasn’t very long ago. There was kind of this feeling, it’s like, this could never happen. There’s no way. And even the Secretary of State, he says, nothing is 100% when you’re dealing with Hamas. But this is the first time we’ve seen conditions like this, where there is external pressure, not from just the countries that support Israel, like the United States and maybe a handful of European countries that still exist that support Israel, but from those that are more favorable to the Palestinian cause. When you’re seeing the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Egypt, Turkey, Indonesia, Jordan, Indonesia, by the way, largest Muslim population in the world, all coming together and saying, this needs to get done. That’s the first time you could see this real breakthrough. Now, does it mean that the threat of radical Islam against the Jewish people will go away? Of course not. And I don’t think anyone would ever think that that is gonna be the case out of this. That’s thousands of years of history. But this current battle with this government that has been established in Gaza for decades, could go away and see a more peaceful time for the state of Israel and for the people that are Palestinian that have had to endure this for so long.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, next up, Mike Pompeo is joining us. He knows a little bit about peace in the Middle East as one of the framework founders of the Abraham Accords. We’re going to talk about that and so much more coming up in just a moment. Welcome back to Seculo. Mike Pompeo is joining us right now, Senior Counsel for Global Affairs. Secretary Pompeo, first question, obviously, the big news over the weekend, and we talked a little about this last week, was the plan of potential peace in the Middle East, something that you worked on many years ago, now went up with the foundation of the Abraham Accords that did give us peace. a relative relief for many years until the Biden administration seems to have kind of unwound it and took apart what you all had built. But now we have Hamas and Israeli delegations. They’re headed to Cairo right now to begin the peace talks. There’s been somewhat soft agreements on the release of the hostages. And they’re reportedly, they’re saying that Hamas is committed. I’d say we put that in quotes, committed to ending the war. At this point, though, how optimistic are you that that can actually happen and will happen?
SPEAKER 03 :
Well, call me a skeptic when it comes to Hamas wanting to end the war. Seems unlikely to me. They could end the war very easily. Just hand the hostages over and this thing ends in 20 minutes. And they’ve shown no evidence now for coming on the anniversary here just this week, right, of two years. And so maybe maybe they’ve had a change of heart given all the progress Israel’s made and American support for that. But I think the devil will prove to be in the details. Perhaps there has been enough pressure that will convince them to allow these hostages to come home, both those that are alive and the remains of those that are now deceased. And you can, in fact, put an end to this thing. I think the Israelis would be happy to withdraw to a certain line that would provide for their security adequately and would ultimately lead to a resolution where there might be some form of governance inside of Gaza that would deliver better outcomes for the This would be a fantastic outcome. I pray that it’s so. I think when it comes to Hamas, I will not believe that they’re prepared to release those hostages until we get to see them in the embrace of their loved ones. I pray that it happens today or tomorrow or the next day.
SPEAKER 04 :
And you hate to be that guy. And I feel the same way, which is that they’re putting so much, I feel like, not just pressure, I feel like they’re putting so much credence in this, like the word of Hamas right now, that it makes me very concerned the way that even media is reporting it. They’re like, Hamas has agreed. It’s like, yeah, we’ve been through this how many times before where they’ve agreed to these things and it doesn’t mean anything.
SPEAKER 03 :
No, that’s right. And by the way, when you hear the media say Hamas has agreed, know this, they are trying to put pressure on Israel in the same way they’ve tried to put pressure on Israel to stop for two years now or almost two years now. They are really messaging that the Israelis are the problem, that the Israelis are somehow the aggressor and that they’re the ones that are continuing this conflict. When you hear the media say, well, Hamas is on board, implicitly that is that the Israelis are not. and nothing could be further from the truth. I think the entire Israeli population, the entirety of the Israeli leadership would love nothing more than to see these hostages returned home, and more importantly, see that Hamas had laid down its weapons, had stopped being the resistance, had stopped trying to destroy the country, and simply wanted to be part of a more normal universe. I haven’t seen any evidence of that to date, but one always lives in hope. As a diplomat, we did things that seemed unimaginable. Sure. perhaps President Trump has put enough pressure on the region to actually deliver this outcome, that this unimaginable outcome can happen too. I certainly hope so.
SPEAKER 07 :
We see these indirect talks that are going to be taking place over the next few days in Cairo. And we know that the White House envoy, Steve Witkoff, is going to be there. We know that Jared Kushner will be there. And that what they’re supposed to be doing here is working on that first phase uh this may be a little technical but even just the the complexity of indirect talks in Cairo with a terrorist organization and Israel and the Americans there what is what is something like that even look like yeah
SPEAKER 03 :
No, that’s a great question. I’ve been part of several of those where you weren’t really talking to the person who was the decision maker. And in this case, it’s actually a double bank shot because don’t forget that the regime in Iran is going to have its say as well. So not only is there a mediator between the United States and Hamas, but Hamas has to go check with daddy, too. Right. They have to go check with the folks who have funded them for so long. So very complex. Lots of risk that there’s translation errors, not just language translation, but conceptual translation issues. And so these deals get pounded out slowly. They’re very complicated there. By the way, in this case, very technical as well, because the timing of these releases matters, the timing of the prisoners that the Israelis will undoubtedly be required to release. timing of this way, the withdrawal, all of those have to be negotiated in great detail so that you can then say, yep, we’re going to go do this and then have a basis upon which to validate whether the parties lived up to their commitments. A very difficult set of conversations. But having worked with Mr. Kushner closely, with Jared closely for years on this problem set, he’s very well positioned to be part of that.
SPEAKER 07 :
And aside from the negotiations, we’ve seen that President Trump had told, which I don’t think I’ve ever seen this before, where there was Jake Tapper did an interview by text message where he just texted the president and then posted the responses. Very bizarre world we’re living in. But that he asked the president of Hamas doesn’t agree to this. What will what will they face? And he said, total obliteration. Now, we know that President Trump doesn’t mess around. We saw what happened with Iran when they would not agree to the situation with their nuclear program that he was trying to push. There were B-2 bombers that were there very quickly, and no one even knew that that was happening. Do you think some of that, obviously, because of the relationship between Iran and Hamas is playing in the background on this? We know that the diplomatic side with a lot of the Gulf states that have been able to start putting pressure. But do you think there’s also that the complete obliteration type language, knowing what the president has already done? Does that factor into some of this pressure as well?
SPEAKER 03 :
Ten thousand percent. That is very much on the minds of every one of those Hamas leaders and their families, knowing they’re going to be wiped out. And it is not just a it’s not bluster. It’s not it’s not just someone fantasy. That is a real credible threat. The Israelis can carry it out. If President Trump says, well, we tried, couldn’t do anything more. Over to you, Prime Minister, Mr. Prime Minister Netanyahu. You can be sure the Prime Minister Netanyahu will continue to do that and deliver against that that mission set that president trump laid out no doubt that’s in their minds no doubt as they’re sitting in cairo today trying to figure this out they are thinking if i say no or i say yes but my fate is almost certain and they’re trying to figure out how to get as much as they can before they ultimately have to say yes and then see what happens in the weeks and the days and weeks that follow
SPEAKER 07 :
And on top of that, many of these leaders of Hamas are third string, fourth string. I mean, the bench wasn’t very deep and many of them never thought people like Yahya Senwar wouldn’t be leading Hamas. So I feel like that also has to play into it a little bit as well as like, I thought the leadership was untouchable. I never thought I would be here.
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. And remember this, too. That’s a really good point. Remember, they never thought they would be there. Moreover, they are all terrorists. Make no mistake about it. But some of these are hardened warriors, the ones in Gaza, and some of them been sitting eating at the nicest hotels in Doha and don’t really know what it’s like to be dirty, grimy and sitting under a pile of rubble trying to figure out how you’re going to take your next breath. And so. They’re all trying to save their own skin as well. There is no doubt that we would not be where we are today had President Trump not put all of the pressure on Hamas and Hamas’s leadership that we’re seeing that they are now experiencing as they sit across the table from these mediators in Cairo today.
SPEAKER 04 :
We’ll see, Secretary Pompeo. Will and I have been talking about this this half hour, which is now we’ll see if this deal goes through. Does the temperature come down in terms of the anti-Semitic, anti-Israel rhetoric around the country? around the world and specifically in the United States, because we’re already seeing some people float out there. Well, even if this deal gets done, that doesn’t forgive the last two years of what they say, you know, quote unquote genocide. And then, of course, you have sort of this weird combination where people have certainly conflated the Israeli government, the Jewish people, The Jewish people in America all together as one, what they would consider evil. And it’s been very alarming as someone with Jewish background to see this all happening. We’ve been talking about how Robbie Williams, the star, big star in Europe, he had to cancel a show. the country of turkey said we cannot protect this show all because protesters were calling him a zionist because his turkish-born wife is jewish and he has a hebrew tattoo which caused a storm of protest they said we can’t secure this stadium we and it’s on it’s supposed to be on october 7th so i mean that’s the kind of real that’s happening not even inside of the middle east
SPEAKER 03 :
Yeah. Look, if this deal comes to fruition, it will definitely take the temperature down. But I think we would all be foolish to think that this would be the end of these challenges of anti-Semitism. They have been with us for an awfully long time. And there will be many who will never forget what they think was this incredible what they describe as genocide. I mean, it’s silly, but that’s how they describe it. They won’t forget this happened. So there will be a lasting tail on this, but it can only reduce risk, right? If a peace deal comes through, it can only be the case that there’ll be less risk, less anti-Semitism, fewer violent protests here in the United States and around the world. And then there’s an opportunity to begin to build in the months and years ahead.
SPEAKER 04 :
Well, that’s good to hear. I’m really glad to hear that from you. I think that gives us a little bit of hope. Thank you so much for joining us, Secretary Pompeo. In the next segment, I want to hear from you. Now, if you’re the listener, if you’re watching us, we got phone lines open. 1-800-684-3110. Now’s the time to get on the air. 1-800-684-3110. If you’re watching online, I’d still love for you to call in. I’d love for you to share your opinions with not just those who are in our YouTube chat, our Rumble chat, those who are watching around the world. Because, look, we have been talking about this, and it’s important. Now’s the time to stand up, and I want you to hear your voice. So give me a call. If you can’t right now, you can also support the work of the ACLJ. If you’re watching this later on and you’re like, hey, I can’t call in, you’re not live right now. Well, you can support the work of the ACLJ. Keep this show going. Keep our work going. That is at ACLJ.org. We’ll be right back. Welcome back to Sekulow. Phone lines are open. If you want to be on the air, it’s a great time to do it. I know that this is sort of a complicated discussion. A lot of people don’t want to call in and be a part of that. We’d love for you to. And I’ll see 1-800-684-3110. If there’s other topics also you feel like we need to hit, you can do that as well at 1-800-684-3110. Of course, we’ll… This conversation all is clouded by the global anti-Semitic tropes that have been going on, whether that is in the conservative world, whether that is in the liberal world, whether that now just feels like it’s everywhere, the streets of major cities, obviously on social media and through some major influencers that have certainly caused this. So much so that we’ve seen some of the top names. Look, we don’t know why specifically. We saw a name like Russell Brand yesterday announcing, hey, I’m not, I’m taking time off and I don’t know if I’m coming back. I don’t know if I’m contributing to the conversation anymore. You know, that’s a pretty big name for what you consider, I guess, the Christian conservative movement right now is someone like him who isn’t even sure where he belongs in this debate, in this conversation. And it could be that he’s on the other side of this. You know, a lot of his friends are on the other side of this. I’m not saying that he is. I’m just saying this is where it’s driving people. And I think in the fallout, obviously, the wake of the Charlie Clark assassination, I think a lot of us have had that discussion. And maybe finally people are coming to this agreement going, you know what? unless I can figure out how I can contribute better to this society and better to this world. I don’t even know if my voice should be heard until then. And we’ve had that discussion even here, which is what that looks like when you are dealing with a threat that is different than we’ve ever experienced before. When it comes to antisemitism, we’ve all experienced it. It’s been happening our entire lives. It’s been happening for generations and generations, but it hasn’t been this hot in America yet. It hasn’t been this hot around the Western world in our lifetime.
SPEAKER 07 :
And what’s fascinating to me, and when we talked about even, will the masks come off if something like this does go through? Where, oh no, you aren’t just siding with what you have been told is a genocide and saying, I want to stop that, obviously. No, you really just were not a fan of Jewish people and Israelis. And some of those big conservative influencers you’re talking about, ones that… have been so critical over the past months of the Israelis, of Bibi Netanyahu, of oddly getting very old trope nasty anti-semitism american jews yeah that they control everything like all of the the nasty lies that have been told for thousands of years just the idea that larry ellison purchased tiktok was like enough for some of them to go on crazy rants about how it’s just going to be jewish controlled now just like all the other you know media well and my question is where are their statements about this proposed peace plan It’s been out for more than a week. We know where it’s come up to. And some of them, I’ve checked, and I could have missed it, have seen not a peep about this. Now, if they really did all of a sudden care and think that Israel is committing genocide on the Palestinian people, which they’ve said over and over and over again, this should be the top thing that they are posting about, talking about on their shows online. No, you’re not seeing that.
SPEAKER 04 :
Because that’s not what’s going to bring clicks. That’s what’s going to bring eyeballs. I mean, eyeballs is for the war to continue, for it to be a constant threat. Because here’s what we know, and it’s what even Charlie Kirk put in that letter to Netanyahu, and I’ve been saying it for years, which is that Israel is really bad at PR. They’re a great country, great people. Have you ever been there? It’s a wonderful experience, but they have no idea how to talk to America in terms of public relations. You’d think if they controlled the media that they would. But of course, they do not. And I think there is stuff that gets lost in translation. There’s a way military is handled there very differently than there is in America. Everyone is part of the IDF. I love that when they were going after a lot of Israeli actors, like former IDF soldier. It’s like everyone is a former IDF soldier. That’s how it works there, unless you have a strong religious exemption or something like that. Almost everyone, most secular or even mainstream religious people… are members of the military for two years there. Yeah. But of course they treat them like they’re, you know, it’s almost like the Trump appointed secretary of state. Right.
SPEAKER 07 :
Well, it’s also, if you were to say that, like about an American veteran, like why is they so demonized people that serve their country in Israel? Then if you were to say former army, it doesn’t have the, this perceived negative connotation that they’re using it for. Yeah. And they’ve only done that because they have crafted such an anti-Israel, anti-Jewish narrative everywhere that, oh, they were in the IDF.
SPEAKER 04 :
They must be super evil. Yeah, war criminals. Let’s go to Amy, who’s calling in North Carolina on line one. Amy, welcome. Hi. Hello.
SPEAKER 1 :
Go ahead.
SPEAKER 05 :
So, I was just questioning, you know, how do we know that the hostages that are still over there are alive?
SPEAKER 04 :
Sure, Amy. I mean, obviously, there’s some we know that aren’t. But intelligence and what they’ve been telling us is that some are. And… Many of us have thought that throughout the years, the last two years, and inevitably, those have been released that are alive. They are sadly bargaining chips in this, and though they’ve been kept in horrible conditions in the photos and videos that we’ve seen, we do believe that there are upwards of 20-ish that are still alive. Now, Does that mean that’s 100% accurate? Of course not. But our hope is that’s true. And you know what? You keep fighting for that hope.
SPEAKER 07 :
That’s right. And so the number that they’ve said is 48 remaining hostages. And about 28 of those are the remains of hostages. They keep those as bargaining chips too, which is so despicable. We saw where they did bait and switch with remains of a hostage. in one of the previous rounds of ceasefire and where they sent the wrong body home, but some families were, you know, filled with comfort that they could finally lay their child to rest or their, their family member to rest. And there was that bait and switch that Hamas did.
SPEAKER 04 :
That’s why it’s hard to trust that when they say, you know, Hamas has agreed to this, you’re like, okay, well we know what this has looked like before and we saw bodies being paraded. And remember we even saw the, when they did release them, the sort of dog and pony show of having them come out with their military fatigues of which they did not have because these were citizens that they put in fake military fatigues and had them released like they were POWs. Um, It’s really absurd. But our hope is though for the caller that there are a few still alive and intelligence would say that there is.
SPEAKER 07 :
We had a comment on YouTube from Tony that said, so Trump gave them until Sunday and now we’re going two days past. Is this just Hamas buying time? Maybe a little bit, but it’s not Hamas saying, give us more time to decide. They are going to, basically Hamas said we’re on board for the most part. Now they are negotiating the logistics of that swap. If they get to it, the logistics of returning the hostages and starting the ceasefire, It’s not something you just flip a light switch and go, okay, I’m going to walk up, here you go. They want to guarantee their protection, as gross as it is, that when they take the hostages to be released, that they won’t be ambushed or attacked or something of that nature. So, yes, there is some delay in it, but that deadline, they effectively said, we’re mostly in favor of this process, let’s keep moving forward.
SPEAKER 04 :
All right, that’s going to do it for today’s show. I appreciate you guys tuning in. I know these subjects are sometimes a little bit harder to listen to for an hour because they’re very intense. They’re obviously life or death for a lot of people. And we want to continue to pray for our friends in Israel, pray for the people of Gaza, the innocent people. Pray for our members of our team that are in action right now, the way that’s at ICLJ Jerusalem. Our office is there in Israel. Or, of course, our team around the country, including CeCe Heil, who brought up that Bible Club case. All of these things are equally as important. Like I said, our show is equally as important to the legal side. The legal side is just as important. We couldn’t exist without each other, and none of it exists without you. We can’t have the best of the best. the best in the broadcasting team, the best in the media team, the best in the legal team. None of it exists without you. So consider becoming an ACLJ champion right now. That’s at ACLJ.org. Talk to you tomorrow.
